Canadian Couple Billed $950K For Baby's Premature Birth In Hawaii

[Unknown Beatle]

~Snip~

Jennifer Huculak and her husband have been saddled with a medical bill of nearly $1 million after she gave birth to her daughter in the U.S.

Huculak was six months pregnant when she flew to Hawaii for a holiday with her husband in October 2013. Before her trip, she bought Blue Cross insurance and received approval from her doctor.

But two days into her trip, Huculak's water broke and she spent the next six weeks on bed rest in a Hawaiian hospital. Her daughter was born nine weeks early and spent two months in intensive care.

While she's grateful that her 11-month-old daughter is now healthy, Huculak and her husband were left with a $950,000 medical bill.

More: Crooks and Liars

[Chakab]

1. This isn't going to help that bullshit talking point about Canadians flocking to the US

for capitalist health care because the socialist system here is so broken.

[MADem]

28. Well, when they flock, they are willing to pay---that's not the same deal at all.

They come for pedestrian procedures that have long wait times. They don't come to drop premature babies that need round-the-clock care in a NICU.

And frankly, many don't come to USA anymore for the very basic stuff. They do a great job on a lot of those procedures (cheaply, too) in India and Brazil. Medical tourism is big in those countries.

http://www.cfp.ca/content/53/10/1639.full

At least 15 medical tourism companies operate in Canada. One such company is located in Alberta, 1 is located in Manitoba, 7 are located in British Columbia, 3 in Ontario, and 3 in Quebec. This list does not include more traditional travel agencies advertising medical tourism packages: a Vancouver-based travel agency arranges trips to Bumrungrad International Hospital in Bangkok, Thailand; a Quebec travel agency markets travel to hospitals and clinics in India.

Canadian medical tourism companies send their clients to such countries as Argentina, Brazil, China, Costa Rica, Cuba, France, Germany, India, Malaysia, Mexico, Pakistan, Poland, Russia, Singapore, South Africa, Sri Lanka, Thailand, Tunisia, Turkey, the United Arab Emirates, and the United States. Some companies send their clients to a single medical facility in a particular country, while others advertise a choice of destinations.

The health care travel packages typically include air and ground transportation, travel visas, hotel accommodations, assistance from a local company representative in the destination country, transfer of medical records to treating physicians, and negotiated rates for whatever medical procedures clients decide to purchase.

Wealthy Canadians have always had the option of traveling outside Canada for treatment.2–4 Medical tourism companies “democratize” the international health care option. Recent news media coverage tracked the journeys of a chaplain who sought cancer treatment in the state of New York, a high school biology teacher who traveled to India for treatment, and a cab driver who visited Belgrade for surgery......

Americans and Brits do this as well-it's not a new phenom.

[CanonRay]

55. They flock here for 5 months in winter

then they hurry home so they don't lose their Canadian health insurance. I know a lot of them personally.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

2. It isn't the fault of the U.S. healthcare system

That her travel insurance, purchased in Canada, doesn't cover the bills.

Her argument should be with the insurance company, not with the hospital.

[Unknown Beatle]

3. Either way,

almost one millions dollars is a ridiculous amount to pay. And it is the fault of the US healthcare system, it's completely broken and set up to make a lot of money for a few individuals.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

4. Then I guess she should have stayed home

where it would have cost her nothing.

[Unknown Beatle]

5. That's why she bought a policy

with Blue Cross insurance before her trip, believing that she was covered. Sure enough, Blue Cross played the preexisting condition card without hesitation, facts be damned.

It isn't her fault, blame the insurance industry running a scam. Their motto is "Buy our policies and if you need to use it, you're fucked because we're not paying shit."

[pnwmom]

6. A Canadian company sold her that policy in 2013.

This is the kind of reason we needed the ACA in the US. And the law in Canada needs some tweaking, since it allows policies like that to be sold.

By the way, Canada's healthcare system doesn't cover tourists or travelers, either.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

35. Yes and no...

Canadian hospitals hate dealing with foreign insurance. "Oh, you're homeless and live under the 14th Street bridge... I'm so sorry to hear that."

[SickOfTheOnePct]

8. I agree 100%, it is the fault of the insurance company

I was responding to the poster that thought the charges were outrageous, apparently regardless of who was paying them.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

34. Retail travel insurance in Canada is one big scam,

The policies are cheap and advertised aggressively, yet they are almost completely worthless. It's called "Post Claim Underwriting" in which a policy is issued based on a spectacularly vague and confusing questionnaires that just about anyone who isn't a doctor is guaranteed to fumble. In the event of a claim the insurer looks for any error or omission in the said questionnaire as a basis to deny the claim.

Although comprehensive travel insurance is often a benefit offered by Canadian employers.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

9. Why is it embarrassing for the U.S.?

Did YOU read the story at the link? She bought the policy in Canada, not the U.S.

The problem is the Canadian policy she bought, not the U.S. If I go to Canada and end up in the hospital, do you think I'm going to be treated for free? Of course not, nor should I be.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

11. I see your point

I mean, medical care and procedures haven't changed since 1979, and there hasn't been any inflation.

I agree that almost a million dollars is a lot, but trying to compare the standard of care in 1979 to now is ludicrous, IMO.

But her complaint is with the insurance company, not the U.S. healthcare system. The insurance company is the one that should be embarrassed.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

13. You should try to work on your anger issues n/t

[SickOfTheOnePct]

15. No need to feel sorry for me, I'm quite happy with my life

And my reading comprehension is fine, thank you

[joeglow3]

25. If you are so confident in your view, don't attack the person

They did not attack you. Counter their points.

[joeglow3]

58. Translation: I CAN'T support my views, so I will now resort to lashing out at everyone

[JaneyVee]

16. Insurance industry and healthcare industry are

Uniquely tied together here in the US and that's what is embarrassing.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

17. The U.S. insurance industry had zero to do with this case n/t

[JaneyVee]

20. That bill was most certainly $1Mil due to

Healthcare industry's price gouging according to insurance industry rates. BCBS operates in the US as well. Guess how much that would have cost in Canada.

Btw, on another note, it's crazy that it could cost $1Mil to have a baby and Republicans don't want to expand healthcare and keep abortion legal

[SickOfTheOnePct]

21. I have BC/BS

and I know for a fact that BC/BS pays doctors and hospitals far less than what the regular, "cash" price would be. It isn't BC/BS that is telling the hospital to charge that much.

And this wasn't just a woman having a baby...the mother was in the hospital for six weeks prior to the birth, and the baby was in NICU for two months. Not comparable to giving birth on Wednesday night and going home on Friday morning.

[Man from Pickens]

30. It's a game

Insurers negotiate ridiculously low compensation, then the doctors revise the list price up in order to have the "negotiated" price end up being what they wanted in the first place

End result, anyone stuck with the list price is looking at a massively inflated fantasy figure that has no real connection to actual cost of the service.

If I were in this family's position, I'd say I'm not paying a dime until a reasonable bill is produced, and also I'm suing for every last possible thing that can be sued for.

[laundry_queen]

43. Insurance companies have artificially inflated medical costs

In Canada, even paying cash, this EXACT SAME birth wouldn't have cost nearly as much. Take the profit motive out of the health care industry, and the costs wouldn't have risen nearly as much as they have in the US. It's criminal. It should also be criminal to sell worthless policies to travellers, but so far the Canadian gov't doesn't seem to give a shit about that (it's been a growing issue here in Canada. One story has a guy having a heart attack in the US - his traveller's insurance wouldn't cover it because they said he 'lied' on his application - because there was something in his medical records that his doctor hadn't told him about, so he answered the questions by what he knew. Insurance company said, too bad, so sad. You should've read your own records, even if you don't understand medical lingo, you should've figured it out. This was something that, btw, was unrelated to his heart condition. Blatant fraud is being perpetuated by these insurance companies.)

[Liberal Veteran]

18. The price of US health care is ludicrous regardless of the advances. Particularly emergency care.

I went to the ER a month ago with sudden crippling pain in my lower abdomen. 2 hours in the ER, 5 minutes with a doctor, 1 shot of toradol, vitals taken twice (blood pressure/pulse/temperature), and a 5 minute CT scan for a diagnosis of kidney stone. Amount billed to insurance company: Almost $6000. $3000 dollars of that was the CT scan which costs about $150-$350 in Europe. Of course, I only paid my hospital copay, but still. That seems excessive.

[Man from Pickens]

29. Agreed

Everyone ranting about insurance and what it covers or doesn't cover misses the point, which is that the price charged for medical care in the US is ten times or more what it should be.

[laundry_queen]

44. + a million nt

[ctaylors6]

31. Canada nonresident rates

are much higher than those rates in Europe. Not $900,000 high but that bill still would have easily been over $100,000 just for the hospital stay for nonresidents in Canada. I think a CT Scan would be about $1200 for a nonresident in Canada.

I travelled there this past summer, and looked into health coverage since one my kids has a pre-existing condition. Our travel insurance person thankfully went into tons of detail about pre-existing conditions.

[pnwmom]

37. No, it shows the world that the Canadian insurer's policy was worthless.

Canada doesn't offer free care to US citizens either, and we are advised to get a travel policy when we go there.

Most US citizens have insurance thanks to the ACA. Why should we vacation in Canada? They won't give us free care there and our insurance policies might not be honored there.

In truth, the situation is the same in both countries. Neither offers free care to the citizens of the other, and you are well advised to have a GOOD travel insurance policy when you travel.

[pnwmom]

51. How do you know that months in a Canadian ICU would not have been very expensive

for a US citizen without insurance?

Our hospitals charge more to people without insurance. Maybe Canadian hospitals do, too.

[elleng]

26. I agree.

Extensive time spent, and 'But two days into her trip, Huculak's water broke and she spent the next six weeks on bed rest in a Hawaiian hospital. Her daughter was born nine weeks early and spent two months in intensive care.'

My daughter's 'normal' delivery of her baby, with an extra 1-2 days in hospital after the birth, here in MD, w good insurance, 100% covered, 'cost' $20,000.

[Doctor_J]

33. not the fault of our healthcare system?? are you insane?

Read reply 32.

Jesus Christ, the Nazis would be jealous of our brainwashing techniques

[laundry_queen]

45. IKR? nt

[dflprincess]

19. I would imagine that, if her insurance policy were covering this,

the bills paid would be less than $950,000 because the insurance company would negotiate a better price with the hospital.

Like when I broke my wrist. The bills total just over $24,000 (surgery was required); insurance paid a negotiated amount of $14K and change, I paid $600 (mostly therapy copays) and that was the end of it.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

23. Exactly n/t

[Politicalboi]

22. Future Dem President

But this time, we have more proof.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

24. Suez you!

I smell a Kenyan plot!

[midnight]

27. If we can bail out foreign bankers with trillions of our tax dollars, we can bail out

medical debts.

[Doctor_J]

32. funny. a colleague went to Norway for a sabbatical and had her baby

5 months after arriving there. It cost her absolutely nothing. In fact she and her husband told the Norwegian people when they accepted the offer that she was four months pregnant, and asked how much the delivery would cost. They looked at her like she was nuts.

American exceptionalism.

[Beaverhausen]

36. Was it a normal delivery of a full term baby?

Cause that's a little different than what happened here.

[Doctor_J]

38. maybe you should read my post

Before they even knew what was going to happen, they laughed at her for thinking there would be any cost. Period. Our healthcare system sucks. It is the absolute worst in the developed world. This case is nothing less than a national disgrace. I read replies like, "she should have stayed home" and realize how brainwashed and morally bankrupt we are as a whole. The travesty that is the ACA has turned democrats into teabaggers

[Beaverhausen]

39. Her insurance is claiming she had a pre-existing condition

This isn't about our healthcare as much as its about health insurance. Did you read the full article at the link?

[Beaverhausen]

42. I didn't say it was ok

We don't have nationalized healthcare here as they do in Norway. Why would anyone expect her not to be billed?

As our insurance works now we still have some co-pays even if something is covered. Until that changes its useless to compare the U.S. to other countries.

Edit to add read post 19. And thanks for calling me retarded. You lost your argument right there.

[ctaylors6]

53. If you visit Norway

for a long period of time, you can get a health card with the Norwegian National Health Scheme. Many EU countries have reciprocal arrangements. Non EU citizens who are planning a 3-12-month stay in Norway can also apply for membership.

If you're visiting there for less than 3 months and you're from US, it's definitely recommended you get short-term private insurance.

IIRC, if you're visiting from a country with reciprocal arrangements, I think you may have to pay first then be reimbursed through the reciprocal arrangement. I have UK relatives, and I think that happened to them.

I also think there are some very small administrative fees (like copays) for doctors visits and prescriptions even for citizens and residents. I think pregnancy is one of the exceptions and is covered without any of those fees.

(Of course all that's for the public system. There's a dual public-private health care system in Norway.)

[Beaverhausen]

56. When did anyone say it's wonderful?

Try actually reading the responses.

You can't compare Norway's healthcare system to ours. Nor can you compare Canada's to ours.

Ours is fucked up. It's better than it used to be but it's still fucked.

[Tsiyu]

59. But shhhhhhhh

Don't say anything!

[Violet_Crumble]

54. If you go to Norway as a tourist, you have to pay for yr medical stuff...

People are covered by Norway's scheme if they're a citizen or a legal resident. Tourists are covered only if they're from a country that has a reciprocal arrangement with Norway, and the US isn't one of those countries.

[m-lekktor]

57. these "healthcare" threads are always batshit.

I am with you on this. :shudder:

[Monk06]

40. Their provincial healthcare system in their home province has supplemental travel insurance for this

It's only $34 per person. What will happen is that the Canadian health authorities will make a scaled offer and tell the US hospital to shove it for the rest.