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Electric Monk

(13,869 posts)
17. Those are what's known as anecdotal examples, and not all of them support zappaman's claim.
Wed Nov 19, 2014, 10:26 PM
Nov 2014

Also, a couple were from banned trolls, so there's that too. Nice try, though


Octafish has some interesting posts downthread. You can link to those if you like, I'll forgive you

Orrex

(63,215 posts)
18. Since you know that no polls exist, you asked for a deliberate red herring
Wed Nov 19, 2014, 10:57 PM
Nov 2014

If a person describes a personal history of harassment on the street, do you demand that this person provide polls and studies to prove that the harassment occurred?

And the fact that those links are anecdotal is hardly a weakness. I was citing incidents of people hating on Randi, which is sufficient to support zappaman's claim even if it doesn't satisfy your red herring.

There are other examples as well; I only took the first half dozen or so that I found.

Archae

(46,337 posts)
4. Of course.
Wed Nov 19, 2014, 11:06 AM
Nov 2014

People are like little kids, they don't like it at all when they find out there is no Santa Claus.

zappaman

(20,606 posts)
5. You have links to surveys and polls and stuff to back that up, of course.
Wed Nov 19, 2014, 12:13 PM
Nov 2014

Cuz I know Santa is real!
Saw him in a mall once.
And there are plenty of YouTube videos about him.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
6. Here's what one expert reported.
Wed Nov 19, 2014, 12:25 PM
Nov 2014
“Worst place I've ever worked, and maybe worst experience of my life ”

I worked at James Randi Educational Foundation full-time (less than an year)

Pros

Some opportunities to speak at conferences and in the media.


Cons

- The president (D.J. Grothe) is described by every former employee and coworker I know as a sociopath. He is completely without a sense of personal ethics, and will constantly lie to you and others.

- All work is bottlenecked by the president. You won't get anything done, and will feel useless.

- A culture of absolute misogyny. The only women who worked for this organization since Grothe took over (with the possible exception of a current contractor, who is not managed directly) all say it is absolutely intolerable, and you are treated like a child.

- The president has no idea what managing is. He does virtually no work himself, and instead will focus on running your work into the ground.

- The very healthy budget (more than half a million dollars in donations last year) is mostly used to pay James Randi and D.J. Grothe (together, they take $350,000 of that $500,000). Lower employees are paid less than half of what their supervisors make.

- People will call you almost every single day, asking you to help them with some problem with D.J. It's usually that he hasn't paid them or hasn't called them back about something very important. He simply does not do his work, and seems to bait and switch people out of money constantly, if their accounts are accurate.

- If you care about women's safety at all, you will be called a "radical feminist" and told your concerns are not the concerns of the organization.

- The president literally told staff that he witnessed a sexual assault at one of the conferences the organization hosts, and that he did nothing to prevent the assailant from returning, year after year. When staff expressed horror at this, we were told that the president "strongly disagreed" with our assessment that the assailant should be banned.

- The president rarely shows up to the office, unless he's recently been reprimanded by the board.

- Constant lying. I can't stress this enough.

- You may lose all faith in organized skepticism if you work here. Any sense that this organization is run by honest people who want to "fight fakers" will be stamped out within weeks. I've never run into anyone so dishonest as the president of this organization, and since the latest batch of quittings, the only remaining full-time staff are the president and his husband.

- Efforts to actually produce materials that would help people (things as simple as leaflets about why homeopathy won't help you get well) are met with remarks like "I'm not sure that that's what our tiny educational organization should spend time on." Instead, all your time will be spent preparing for TAM (which is financially sustainable on its own and could just as well be run by a for-profit organization) and making videos and blogs that are only seen and read by people who already agree with the skeptical viewpoint. This organization, at least under D.J. Grothe's management, has NO EFFECT in the real world.

Advice to Management

Replace D.J. Grothe as soon as possible.

SOURCE: http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/James-Randi-Educational-Foundation-Reviews-E724004.htm

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
9. Thanks for the news on that turd. Here's more from what the NYT wrote about Randi...
Wed Nov 19, 2014, 01:12 PM
Nov 2014
The Unbelievable Skepticism of the Amazing Randi

By ADAM HIGGINBOTHAM
New York Times, Nov. 7, 2014

EXCERPT...

Randi was all but marooned in the house — he was forbidden to drive while he awaited cataract surgery — and Alvarez had been forced to surrender his driver’s license, after a series of events that began on Sept. 8, 2011. That morning there was a knock on the front door. When Randi opened it, a pair of federal agents stood before him. They asked to speak to Alvarez. Outside, Randi could see two unmarked S.U.V.s blocking the driveway and at least half a dozen agents surrounding the perimeter of the property. When Alvarez came downstairs from his room, the agents explained there was a problem. They wanted to talk to him about passport fraud. They cuffed him and took him out to the car. Randi was left alone in the house, holding business cards from State Department agents, who, Randi said, gave him instructions to wait 24 hours before calling them.

The agents took Alvarez directly to Broward County Jail, where he was photographed, issued a gray uniform and registered as FNU LNU: “first name unknown, last name unknown.” In an interview room at the jail, he told an agent everything: He had fled homophobic persecution in Venezuela and had come to the U.S. on a two-year student visa. He met Randi and knew he wanted to stay with him. But when his visa expired, there was no way to renew it. He said he was given the name and Social Security number of José Alvarez by a friend in a Fort Lauderdale nightclub, and used it to apply for a passport in 1987. Alvarez told the agent he was deeply sorry for the trouble he had caused the real Alvarez — who he believed was dead but turned out to be a teacher’s aide living in the Bronx. FNU LNU said his real name was Deyvi Orangel Peña Arteaga.

SNIP...

Today, Peña remains on probation and no longer holds any identity documents except a Venezuelan passport with his birth name. United States immigration authorities have agreed not to deport him for now, but he has no formal immigration status in the United States: were he to leave the country, he would be unable to return. Since his arrest, Peña has not entirely shrugged off his former persona. He signs his paintings with the name he has exhibited under for 20 years — but now followed by his true initials, D.O.P.A.

Sometimes when Randi forgets himself, he still refers to his partner as José. Yet exactly how much Randi — the master of deception and misdirection — knew about his partner’s duplicity, and how complicit he may have been in it, is unclear. When Randi first met him in the Fort Lauderdale public library, it seems certain that Peña would have introduced himself by his real name: A profile of Randi published in The Toronto Star the following year describes the magician’s young assistant, named David Peña, struggling through La Guardia Airport with Randi’s luggage. When they traveled to Australia together for the “60 Minutes” stunt, Randi may have been masterminding a deception one level deeper than he ever acknowledged: Deyvi, pretending to be José, masquerading as Carlos, the 2,000-year-old spirit from Caracas. What followed might be the longest-running hoax of The Amazing Randi’s career.

When I asked Randi how much he knew about Peña’s true identity before the federal agents came to his door, he demurred, citing legal concerns. “This is something I don’t think I’d like to get into detailed discussion about,” Randi said. “Simply because it could prejudice our status in some way.”

CONTINUED...

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/09/magazine/the-unbelievable-skepticism-of-the-amazing-randi.html

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
16. Expert enough for GlassDoor.com.
Wed Nov 19, 2014, 09:40 PM
Nov 2014

They only quote people who would be expert on a company -- the employees and ex-employees. Before they post, they must fill in a verified profile or be otherwise identified to GlassDoor via Facebook, etc. They don't share the private info, but they require having it on file in order to participate on their forum.

http://www.glassdoor.com/about/faq.htm

As for the James Randi Education Foundation, ask: How much money does the nonprofit give to Randi in salary, expense payments, bonuses?

JREF Revenue:

2011: $1.56M
2012: $1.29M
2013: $887.5K

Trend is in need of some magic, which is a word I seldom use.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
21. Oh. OK. If you say so.
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 01:54 PM
Nov 2014

Seems if GlassDoor got a complaint they'd check it out. Feel free.

Going by Amazing Randi and his amazing record of hypocrisy, I'll go with the Reviewer at Glass Door.

wyldwolf

(43,867 posts)
22. I've set up glassdoor accounts for two companies
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 02:09 PM
Nov 2014
Seems if GlassDoor got a complaint they'd check it out.


And then what would glassdoor do?

It's specifically for employees - past and present - to leave reviews (among other things) on companies. At one place I worked, we'd read the reviews and try to guess who left them. Very much like a game

Archae

(46,337 posts)
11. The worst part about this story though...
Wed Nov 19, 2014, 02:08 PM
Nov 2014

Geller and Popoff are still quite active, and still playing the suckers for money.

ProfessorPlum

(11,257 posts)
12. well, he can't inoculate everyone from gullibility
Wed Nov 19, 2014, 04:21 PM
Nov 2014

Id like to think that a lot of people saw those debunkings and had their outlook changed, though. I know they had a big effect on me when I was young.

Archae

(46,337 posts)
13. Of course.
Wed Nov 19, 2014, 07:21 PM
Nov 2014

Funny thing, I used to be one of those "FTB's," I loved reading about and believing in flying saucers, Bermuda Triangle, Chariots Of The Gods, the works.

I saw a Nova program about the Bermuda Triangle, and saw just how deceptive the "mystery" writers like Charles Bullshit...I mean Berlitz was.

It was James Randi's book "Flim Flam!" that crystallized my attitude as a skeptic.

I still do have a soft spot for cryptozoobiology, stuff about Bigfoot, Loch Ness, etc.

zappaman

(20,606 posts)
19. Me too.
Wed Nov 19, 2014, 11:02 PM
Nov 2014

Actually gave an oral report in 8th grade on the Bermuda Triangle.
The smears against him are funny though.

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