Why the KXL will drive up gas prices?

[kentuck]

The plan is to ship the oil by the pipeline to Texas where it will be refined and put on the world market.

The problem is that the refineries can only handle a limited amount of oil at one time. While it is being refined for overseas, we are creating a shortage at home.

Beware.

[B Calm]

1. Oh no, you got it all wrong. According to republicans the Keystone pipeline will make the USA

energy independent.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. How is it that we're creating a shortage at home? This stuff won't be made into gasoline anyway.

You are correct about the fact that it will enter the world market. We will not benefit from this in any way.

[customerserviceguy]

3. When any quantity of any commodity

traded on the world market goes up, without a corresponding rise in consumption, price goes down, that's classic economics.

Even if we didn't get one iota of direct benefit from this pipeline (and I think we'll get plenty) isn't it good to help an ally, whose money doesn't go to fund terrorism?

[CaliforniaPeggy]

4. I understand the classic economic point you made.

And I do agree it's nice to help an ally who isn't in the business of funding terrorism.

What benefit do you see from this pipeline, provided that it actually gets used as intended?

[customerserviceguy]

5. Several

First, there are the construction jobs. Yes, they go away eventually, but most infrastructure construction projects do, too. Second, there will indeed be some permanent jobs along the route of the pipeline.

Third, Canada is an ally, a faithful one. The Canadians have always rallied to our side when the cause was just, and even when it was questionable. Why shouldn't they be able to sell their natural resources on the world market? Fourth, it helps North American energy independence, which means that the money from that oil won't be going to Third World terrorist states.

We know how to do pipelines, they're relatively simple, technically speaking. Yes, you can screw them up, but that's the proper role for government here, to make sure the state of the art safety standards are used and continuously followed. Besides, that oil is eventually going to be burned anyway, stopping Keystone won't stop that.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

6. Those are fair arguments, but I disagree. I know, big surprise!

To me, the risk that it WILL leak into the Ogallala Aquifer is just too great to allow this to go forward.

That is the major salient point for me.

[pkdu]

7. Some response to your " benefits "

Btw , I'm not as anti as you might think , given 3 below

1. One to two years of construction jobs aren't a great reason ...it's not eventually , it's one to two years.

2. If by some , you mean 50, 5-0, then yes there are...hardly a compelling reason either.

3. The ALREADY sell this commodity on the world market...it's just trucked across US , not pipelined.

4. Is complete bullshit....it's all for export , not domestic consumption

Hardly a set of compelling arguments?

[Savannahmann]

11. Actually most of it is sent by rail.

Rail tank cars full of the stuff

[redruddyred]

9. I happen to agree with you.

the arguments against the pipeline just aren't convincing enough.

yes, we need to divest from fossil fuels. but I think the key is not to not build the pipeline, but rather to invest in public transportation on a local level. weatherization programs, and solar alternatives too.

[customerserviceguy]

13. Thanks

We're stuck with oil for at least the near future. Electricity is not a fuel, it simply doesn't have the power/weight ratio to enable flight of humans or cargo.

In any case, the pipeline is something that the GOP will accomplish in the next year, I'm sure they'll tie it to some piece of essential legislation that the President will simply have to sign.

[redruddyred]

22. I just wish that the dems would make a proper fight for stuff that really matters

like food stamps and social security and labor rights.

keystone xl is a legitimate grey area. that said, I think that global warming is a serious problem and that we do need to divest, but that there is not yet the infrastructure to do so. fighting kxl seems like a poor use of resources at last.

[kentuck]

8. When refineries operate at 80%, it can drive the price of gasoline up...

They cannot be shut down for any amount of time without creating a shortage in this country. If they plan on refining for overseas markets, that will drive up prices here at home.

[ProfessorGAC]

14. They Plan On Shipping Refined Product?

Gasoline is 50x more dangerous to ship than crude oil. You sure the plan is to refine it here and sell the finished goods on the world market? The extra cost of shipping seems prohibitive.

[davidpdx]

10. It is just idiotic to bring it all the way down through the US and refine it only to ship it

Greed, greed, and more greed.

I think for the foreseeable future (like until 2020) oil isn't going to be too expensive unless all hell breaks lose in several places in the world at once. Once we hit 2020, I think all bets are off.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

12. Look at the refined products the US exports

and ask yourself again how Canadian heavy crudes work into that and if your theory makes any sense.

The US refined product exports boom has been fueled by a cost advantage relative to European refiners as a result of the glut of light crudes from the Eagle Ford and similar formations.

[sorefeet]

15. Not one ounce of this oil will benefit

Americans. Anyone who thinks the Kochs are doing this to help the American economy or for American JOBS are part of the problem. The short piece of the pipeline that isn't complete will only need probably 5-600 people to finish. They will blast it out in one short summer, everyone will be down the road in a few short months. There will be 35-50 permanent jobs. These pipelines are computerized, they pretty much take care of themselves. UNTIL the sand and grit in this filthy tar sand bullshit wears a hole in the cheap assed pipe bought from CHINA. I worked steel for 30 years, sandblasting and coating refineries and bridges and power plants. Steel wears out. I promise everyone there will be a leak eventually if the pipeline is finished and I will bet anything it is at the aquifer plus many other places. THIS ISN'T ABOUT JOBS OR OIL INDEPENDENCE.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

16. It's not going to Texas to be refined...

It's going to Texas to be shipped all over the world. We don't ship refined gasoline, we ship crude oil.

There will be no shortage.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

18. You're in misspelt tea party sign territory

The US exports very little crude oil from Texas, only the lightest condensates for which there presently very limited US demand.

In 2013 however the US was the largest exporter of refined products such as diesel and jet fuel.

[Sunlei]

17. majority of keystone pipeline is built and in use. what they make a media/political issue over is th

issue over is Canada's border cross point (old pipe needs new to move the toxic sludge), permits to prove they have disaster plans (lol sure they have plans), Nebraska has 2 landowners in courts to keep pipeline off their land, & Texas needs permits to show the refining will not make more greenhouse gas than EPA allows (which it will as the process is dirty)

IMO, Canada should refine THEIR toxic tar sands in place, right on the miles of polluted ruined Canadian land.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

19. Canada refines more than half a million barrels a day of this stuff

This stuff is already flowing into US refineries and it has been for forty years. The only thing different this time is Keystone XL was so masterfully astroturfed.

Oil will always reach its market, you can't stop that. It's just a question of whether or not you think it is fair to farmers and retailers to be competing with oil refiners for railroad capacity.

[kentuck]

20. Perhaps you can clarify?

Don't refineries have to go thru different steps to get crude oil, or jet fuel, or gasoline? Would they actually ship this thick tar oil without refining it in some manner, to crude or other?

And haven't we, in recent times, had problems with the capacity of refineries to meet the demands of our economy?

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

21. The issue is primarily geographic

Refineries are engineered, multi-billion dollar investments, around the type of crude they will be refining, for the Gulf Coast refineries and refineries in California for instance that was primarily a heavier crude sourced from Venezuela before they decided they wanted to be the next Zimbabwe, production plunged and Venezuela became an importer. This stuff has been around for a hundred years, it just caught an updraft in Venezuela's production collapsing and higher oil prices supporting growth in development.

The Canadian product is a reasonable substitute for these heavy crudes and there are a few steps between the tar sands and what is imported to the US. Raw bitumen probably hasn't been imported to the US since before the Second World War when it was used as asphalt.