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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsTop universities in Europe (and Canada) are free or almost free
Amazing.
7 countries where Americans can study at universities, in English, for free (or almost free)
October 29, 2014
Since 1985, U.S. college costs have surged by about 500 percent, and tuition fees keep rising. In Germany, they've done the opposite.
The country's universities have been tuition-free since the beginning of October, when Lower Saxony became the last state to scrap the fees. Tuition rates were always low in Germany, but now the German government fully funds the education of its citizens -- and even of foreigners.
Explaining the change, Dorothee Stapelfeldt, a senator in the northern city of Hamburg, said tuition fees "discourage young people who do not have a traditional academic family background from taking up study. It is a core task of politics to ensure that young women and men can study with a high quality standard free of charge in Germany."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/10/29/7-countries-where-americans-can-study-at-universities-in-english-for-free-or-almost-free/
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yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)Our universities from many other countries including Europe. Something must be ok with our universities.
dilby
(2,273 posts)not get into one in Japan, our standards are lower.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)is that prospective students can usually apply to only one public (national) university, although they may apply to any number of private universities, which are much more expensive than the public universities. Also, prospective students usually have to apply for a specific department of the university they wish to attend, and it's very rare to change majors. So in that case, there is much more choice associated with American universities.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)In this country higher education is for those who can afford it. Like the loss if middle class jobs and affordable housing and affordable health care, we are turning our people into serfs for the ruling class. We remove opportunity from our citizens who remain ignorant of that fact and either vote for their masters or don't vote at all.
dilby
(2,273 posts)I think American Kids should go to Europe for College, it will put a knife in the stomach of the blood sucking schools here in the US and when the kids return they will demand more socialized programs that they became accustomed too. Yes some of the kids will stay in Europe preferring it which could cause a brain dump for the US but I think the overall pros win over the cons.
elleng
(130,973 posts)I hope my grandkids do this, but it will take a while to find out: They're 11 months and 4 months old now.
DFW
(54,405 posts)German kids are encouraged to take their 11th year of high school (out of 13) abroad. Mine did, and they matured incredibly in that time. I was in what was then (1960s) an experimental program to send US high school kids to Europe for 11th grade. It changed me, too (and it's why I can speak Catalan still today).
Living and thinking in another language and culture is THE key to understanding other cultures. Maybe, just maybe, it is also the key to a world where fewer conflicts arise due to mutual understanding rather than mutual suspicion.
Yes, some will stay on. So what? A few well-educated Americans around the globe, speaking fluently the language of their host country, and showing understanding and admiration for it--that is bad for us? One of my daughters stayed on in the country where she went to college (USA). The other came back here to Germany due to an incredible job offer, but one of the prerequisites for the job was an American bar exam and fluency in English.
I ended up not living in Spain, but I still go down there frequently, and I met the woman of my dreams because I had bothered to learn German on the side in college--a whim I could not have pursued if it had not been my major in Europe. Forty years later, we are still happy in Düsseldorf, and speak German at home.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Though the language might mean only the UK is really good, and Ireland. Canada should get many too.
badtoworse
(5,957 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)I recall that was the rub. It only meant for those who could get in, and that was not so easy.
Oktober
(1,488 posts)... And get University slotted in their early teens.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)Wish we were rich enough to afford an overseas education for them!
shenmue
(38,506 posts)but Mom and Dad freaked out because it was so far away. They said it would take too long for them to come and visit me.
I still want to visit there someday.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)When I was a kid we had good friends who had moved to the US from Australia (for the dad's job). I did a report on it in third grade. I've continued to have a "thing" for that country.
shenmue
(38,506 posts)They've got koalas. 
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)shenmue
(38,506 posts) dilby
(2,273 posts)Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)It is not only going to be in-state, it is probably going to be in-city, as in community college.
shenmue
(38,506 posts)
Spazito
(50,365 posts)It is not "free or almost free" for foreign students to attend Canadian Universities.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)The University of BC would cost us at least $50,000 a year, with living expenses factored in.
Spazito
(50,365 posts)and it is far from free for Canadian students.
gyroscope
(1,443 posts)at one of Canada's top schools, tuition and fees for international students is a paltry $3700.
and that's for the very best school in Canada. McGill has the most Nobel laureates and Rhodes scholars in the country.
http://www.mcgill.ca/student-accounts/tuition-fees/tuition-and-fees/continuing-studies-fees-20132014/international-students
compared to the US where it costs about twice that to go to a crummy low-ranking state school.
Spazito
(50,365 posts)hardly "free or nearly free" and is only offered to International students who register for 4 or more consecutive terms.
"Students who do not register for four (4) or more consecutive terms (including summer terms) are considered to have a break in enrolment and will be subject to the new fee schedule in effect for the term for which they are readmitted and enrolled.
Please note that a term of withdrawal from the University is included in the calculation of four (4) unregistered terms when students are not charged tuition for that term. Terms for which students are registered on an officially approved leave of absence, exchange or study away program are not calculated as part of a break in enrolment. Students who transfer degree programs are also subject to the new fee schedule in effect for the term in which they transfer."
http://www.mcgill.ca/student-accounts/tuition-fees/general-information/tuition-increases
gyroscope
(1,443 posts)which was mainly my point.
why is college so incredibly expensive in the US (for residents)
compared to the residents in other developed countries.
Spazito
(50,365 posts)as it is not "free or nearly free" for International Students at all.
As to why tuition is more expensive in the U.S. it's a good question.
gyroscope
(1,443 posts)sorry for the confusion.
according to these, even for NON-residents students these Canadian schools cost substantially less
than what equivalent schools in the US charge for resident students.
(though maybe not as cheap as European schools).
Americans head north for affordable college degrees (NBC)
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/24/17882085-americans-head-north-for-affordable-college-degrees?lite
10 Reasons to Attend Canadian Universities (CBS)
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/10-reasons-to-attend-canadian-universities/
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)I will check into it with my son.
DFW
(54,405 posts)If hundreds of thousands of Americans come flooding into European Universities that teach in English, looking for a free education, their system would break down. Plus, while tuition is free, living here is not. It's very expensive, actually.
The "free" education is not really "free," but is actually paid for by the high taxes imposed on the Europeans. They will not go for having their taxes pay for thousands of American kids looking for a freeload off their parents' taxes. They are already grumbling about having to subsidize a few million Eastern Europeans who are here in western Europe gaming the welfare system. The German welfare system was designed to help out Germans who were having a hard time, not Romanians and Bulgarians as well.
The education itself is often very elitist. When I was in college back in the States, I could get access to my professors, and that was at an Ivy League college. In Europe, they are barely to be found, and often don't want to be. In German universities, anyway, you study your major, period. No "all round" education.
Both my children, who are German citizens, fluent in both German and English, preferred to go to college in the States because they were tired of being taught by uncaring teachers who could never be fired. I was lucky enough to be able to cover that by blowing my inheritance on it (it was still worth it--I love how they turned out), and I realize not everyone has that option. But they had the choice and said "no way" to the system in the country and language they grew up in. It's not all paradise over here, and anyone contemplating it needs to thoroughly check out all angles before rushing over here.
gyroscope
(1,443 posts)the fact that tuition is so low for European CITIZENS in Europe just go to show how insane the cost of college is for AMERICAN citizens in the US.
American students are getting absolutely fleeced by a corrupt educational system.
DFW
(54,405 posts)But it's kinda too late to follow their example. We can't very well seize Harvard or Stanford, and the European Universities are public, funded by taxpayer money. Plus, the universities in Germany, at least, have a cruel numbers game where your high school GPA is the sole factor that determines if you get in or not. There are always trade-offs.
gyroscope
(1,443 posts)its the same in the US where your grade and test scores determines what schools will admit you.
what's your point?
DFW
(54,405 posts)They interview you, check out the person behind the application.
In Germany, you are your GPA. It determines if you get a spot right away, a year or two down the road, or "forget about it." Since German universities are one trick pony schools, your shot at getting to study your chosen field is literally determined by your GPA. They even have a cutoff number for each chosen line of study. Very high for medicine, lower for academia, in between for chemistry or biology or physics. In the USA, both in my experience and in those of my daughters a generation later, the person applying was also taken into the equation. Maturity, motivation, outside interests, the sort of thing admissions committees are there for. In Germany, the admissions committee is a computer or a chart.
gyroscope
(1,443 posts)Maturity, motivation, outside interests, the sort of thing admissions committees are there for. In Germany, the admissions committee is a computer or a chart.
these things are important. but students who get good grades and test scores already tend to be the most mature and motivated to do well in college. the admission interview seems rather redundant because when the student has good grades it shows they already possess these qualities.
an average size university admits hundreds of new students every year, so it requires a huge amount of time and expense to interview every potential candidate. lets say 3,000 students apply for the fall semester at X University but the school only has 300 spaces available. can you imagine the amount of time and resources it would take to personally interview each of the 3,000 applicants?
German schools are good at keeping costs down (ie: no admission interviews) so they can provide high quality education at little or no cost. but apparently that's not the goal at schools in the US, where the the costs keeps skyrocketing every year.
DFW
(54,405 posts)Have you ever lived here?
They have a system where students are put in a crushing mill of both competition and universally tenured for life teachers and professors who have no incentive to be good at what they do or care about the students they are supposed to educate. Many do, but plenty do not. My kids aren't the only ones we know who were happy to escape. Plenty of our friends here had the same experience with their own children, most of whom are bright or downright gifted. One, the son of a judge on the high tax court and a school director opted to get his university training in Holland. His sister, equally bright, is now a medical doctor, but because of the computer system (and incompetent math and biology teachers at our local high school) she just missed out on her computer-generated rating, and would have had to wait on tables for 2 or 3 years before finding a spot in a German medical school. She went to Austria. Others have gone to Australia, or, if their parents could afford it, the USA. Most have come home, but are relieved they got to go to university elsewhere. I laud the US system for keeping a human aspect in the admission process, and don't think it's a superfluous cost at all. We have enough robots running the place as it is (worse in Germany).
Oktober
(1,488 posts)German kids start early and produce all through their teens.
The American system is a high paid baby sitting service in comparison setting aside only the top top schools.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)that make our universities corrupt?
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Vattel
(9,289 posts)gyroscope
(1,443 posts)you are right about that.
the mafia would be impressed.
Oktober
(1,488 posts)Isnt even close.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)American schools, at all levels, are the equivalent of day care centers with rare exception.
University work in Germany is actually academic...
Look at the difference in what happens at the undergraduate level. They aren't even close...
Vattel
(9,289 posts)Oktober
(1,488 posts)... but the academic worlds are miles apart in quality and not in America's favor.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)Oktober
(1,488 posts)... and the vast expanse in quality between the two.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)Were you a student or a professor? What discipline?
edited to add: According to the QS rankings of universities, 6 of the top 10 universities are in the US. The highest ranked German University is ranked 49th.
Oktober
(1,488 posts)... but due to unique circumstances I have experience with a variety of well ranked schools at the graduate and undergraduate levels in the US as well as Germany.
Feel free to not believe me.... I'm good either way.
American higher education is a farce...
Vattel
(9,289 posts)According to the QS rankings of universities, 6 of the top 10 universities are in the US. The highest ranked German University is ranked 49th.
tenderfoot
(8,437 posts)Well, if that's the case, explain Annapolis and West Point. Both institutions are tuition free. So, are students there not trying very hard?
The right will come up with anything to impede progress.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)They work hard to get there, and they worker even harder still to stay there. We have an academy grad in our family, and while he opted out of the military after he put in his required years (thanks to the Bush and Cheney wars). Perpetual deployment for corporate interests was not his idea of "serving my country." And considering Obama's war record, I'm damn glad that he got out.
Regarding university tuition, etc., I think we should have many more community colleges, and tuition should be free or close to free for everyone. In addition to that, we need more tax funded vocational and technical schools that actually teach and don't take advantage of students by charging outrageous tuition. 
tenderfoot
(8,437 posts)That's the meme.
The best and brightest get scholarships - so that must mean they screw once they're in college.
Right???
But not those whose parents pay their way - they work harder!
That's the same reasoning the GOP uses to cut unemployment. Because it won't give one the incentive to try and find a job.
Right?
Isn't that how it goes?
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)regarding the "best and brightest."
I think we are on the same side regarding college tuition! I would like to see much lower tuition in universities, bring back pell grants and cheaper interest loans, and free community college and technical schools.
The cost of university, imo, is not only a personal problem for individuals, it's a problem for the larger society, as well, that doesn't bode well for our country's future.
YarnAddict
(1,850 posts)for my first semester was $1012. That was in 1976. According to the tables I've looked at, that is between $4000 and $5000 in 2014 dollars. That's quite a bit of $$ for a young person to come up with on their own, but not impossible.
Part of the problem with the exhorbitant cost of a college education today, is ironically, the amount of financial aid that has become available since then. Colleges used to have a vested interest in keeping the cost down, but once federal $$ started pouring in, the colleges could raise their tuition to virtually any level they wanted. Students could get grants and supplement with loans and only kids whose families didn't qualify for financial aid would complain. As the costs, and the federal dollars available to them, rose, the self-pay people became fewer and fewer. So many young people are more concerned about getting into and through college than about the chunk of monthly cash they are going to have to come up with to meet the loan payments, and the result is cash-strapped young adults who are going to be in debt for far too many years.
Don't know how this can be reversed at this point . . .
