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Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
Wed Nov 19, 2014, 04:49 PM Nov 2014

The Senate Kills Surveillance Reform and Glenn Greenwald Shrugs

The Senate yesterday buried—at least for now—surveillance reform, when Republican senators refused to allow the current draft of the measure to proceed to a vote. Glenn Greenwald has an interesting reaction to the legislative death of the grandiosely-named USA Freedom Act: It doesn’t matter. He writes, “it has been clear from the start that U.S. legislation is not going to impose meaningful limitations on the NSA’s powers of mass surveillance, at least not fundamentally.” Change, rather, is going to come from elsewhere: from the posture of the technology companies, from individual use of encryption, from policy decisions of countries other than the United States, and from court proceedings:

I find this argument a little perplexing coming from the man who considered the NSA’s bulk metadata program to be so important and so alarming that it was the very first program he broke in all of the documents Edward Snowden gave him.

Metadata can’t really be encrypted; it’s the information used to deliver content and thus has to be readable, after all. And the law as currently interpreted permits NSA to collect it in bulk. If one thinks this activity is offensive and important, one should not be too dismissive of legislative action to curtail it. Yet Greenwald suddenly does not sound quite so alarmed by the possibility that NSA would retain the authority to bulk collect metadata:

There is a real question about whether the defeat of this bill is good, bad, or irrelevant. To begin with, it sought to change only one small sliver of NSA mass surveillance (domestic bulk collection of phone records under section 215 of the Patriot Act) while leaving completely unchanged the primary means of NSA mass surveillance, which takes place under section 702 of the FISA Amendments Act, based on the lovely and quintessentially American theory that all that matters are the privacy rights of Americans (and not the 95% of the planet called “non-Americans”).

Huh. There’s a lot in this short passage to unpack, but focus for now just on Greenwald’s contemplation of the possibility that killing the USA Freedom Act might be a “good” thing and his dismissal of the metadata program as merely a “small sliver” of NSA mass surveillance. He even goes so far as to dismiss the end of bulk collection of phone records under Section 215 as no more than “mildly positive.” I don’t recall his reaction to the underlying program, at the time he revealed it, as only that bulk telephony metadata collection was mildly negative. I recall a slightly more breathless, outraged response. So what then are we to make of his now-casual dismissal of a bill to curtail the program—much less the entire reform mechanism, which is to say legislation, that would enable that curtailing? How can bulk metadata collection be an intolerable outrage and ending the 215 program be merely “mildly positive” or even a net negative?

One possibility is that Greenwald doesn’t know how to take yes for an answer. He is outraged by bulk metadata collection. Congress contemplates ending bulk metadata collection. So it suddenly fades in his mind in importance relative to outrages Congress is not addressing.


http://www.lawfareblog.com/2014/11/the-senate-kills-surveillance-reform-and-glenn-greenwald-shrugs/

If you people don't want to believe me, or want to say I'm just too blinded by my Greenwald hatred, Wittes makes my case for me...

Or will you try to say now that Wittes of all people is some paid Pentagon authoritarian shill??

11 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The Senate Kills Surveillance Reform and Glenn Greenwald Shrugs (Original Post) Blue_Tires Nov 2014 OP
This could be interesting Andy823 Nov 2014 #1
Fucking Greenwald.. SomethingFishy Nov 2014 #2
It has never been about the issue for Greenwald. stevenleser Nov 2014 #3
I think he "manufactured outrage" about Bush, too. Comrade Grumpy Nov 2014 #5
This article and other evidence completely refute that idea. stevenleser Nov 2014 #9
The all important issue is what Glenn Greenwald thinks. n/t Comrade Grumpy Nov 2014 #4
Greenwald being a hypocrite yet again... Spazito Nov 2014 #6
He leaked it first because it's the only leak that actually jeff47 Nov 2014 #7
Greenwald is being excoriated by this guy for not having any faith in Congress DisgustipatedinCA Nov 2014 #8
+1 excellent analysis GreatGazoo Nov 2014 #11
Odd viewpoint. Laws are immaterial; relief will come from courts. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2014 #10
 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
3. It has never been about the issue for Greenwald.
Wed Nov 19, 2014, 04:56 PM
Nov 2014

It's always been about manufacturing outrage against Obama.

 

Comrade Grumpy

(13,184 posts)
5. I think he "manufactured outrage" about Bush, too.
Wed Nov 19, 2014, 04:58 PM
Nov 2014

Maybe he doesn't like imperial national security state presidents.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
9. This article and other evidence completely refute that idea.
Wed Nov 19, 2014, 05:25 PM
Nov 2014

You want to believe that but it just isn't so.

He has no problem with several completely imperial national security state countries and leaders, such as Russia for instance, and China, one of whom is in the midst of an unprovoked war of aggression, the other has been consistently bullying its neighbors in the east and south China seas. Where is Greenwald's outrage about that?

No, the evidence suggests he is a Libertarian who is a negative nationalist with the US as the object of his negative nationalism.

Spazito

(50,365 posts)
6. Greenwald being a hypocrite yet again...
Wed Nov 19, 2014, 04:59 PM
Nov 2014

no surprise there. The surprise would have been if he actually practiced what he preaches.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
7. He leaked it first because it's the only leak that actually
Wed Nov 19, 2014, 05:07 PM
Nov 2014

claims collection on US persons without a specific search warrant.

The other programs Greenwald has leaked reveal techniques and programs, but those other leaks did not indicate they are actually used on US persons. The actual leaked documents don't say they were. Instead, Greenwald has heavily implied they are used on US persons and lets everyone else take it from there.

 

DisgustipatedinCA

(12,530 posts)
8. Greenwald is being excoriated by this guy for not having any faith in Congress
Wed Nov 19, 2014, 05:10 PM
Nov 2014

I read the blog post, and that's pretty much the sum of it. Greenwald doesn't believe meaningful spy state reform is going to come out of the US Congress. I agree with him. And while Greenwald has strong and animated opinions, is it the job of a journalist to come up with the fix, or is it the job of a journalist to expose what's happening? I say he's not responsible for the former, and he's got the latter covered in spades.

But regarding this bill that was just defeated, he's right. I don't see what's controversial about him refusing to be led by the nose so he could pretend that congress might have realistically done something meaningful.

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