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robertpaulsen

(8,632 posts)
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 02:01 PM Nov 2014

Degree Absolute and the JFK Assassination Conspiracy

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Sissyk (a host of the General Discussion forum).

Degree Absolute and the JFK Assassination Conspiracy

Having recently been turned on to the joys of internet TV, I spent the early part of autumn with my family watching The Prisoner on Crackle. This is a British TV series that ran just one season, 17 episodes from 1967-68, but I've had a number of people recommend it over the years. Now that I've seen every episode from start to finish, I understand why it got so many raves. It was groundbreaking, truly ahead of its time, not just for its presentation but also its content. The presentation has its origins in the creator and star (and producer, director and writer of many of the series episodes, often under an alias) Patrick McGoohan, who had risen to fame from 1960-62 for his role as John Drake in Danger Man, playing a secret agent. Three years later, the series was revamped as Secret Agent. While this was one of the first British TV series to gain fame in the United States, by 1966, McGoohan yearned for something a little different.

The Prisoner, like Danger Man, has a British secret agent played by McGoohan as the lead character. This secret agent (there is much debate among fans as to whether it is the same character in both series or not) abruptly turns in his resignation. However, the agency he works for is not so eager to accept his resignation. While packing his bags in preparation for departure, his home is gassed and McGoohan passes out. When he comes to, his home seems just as it was, completely undisturbed. When he opens the window, he is startled to discover that instead of London skyscrapers, he has the view of a garden. Upon further investigation, he finds he is in a secluded coastal place called The Village where everyone is either a prisoner or a warden, but there are no identities; everyone is assigned a number. McGoohan is assigned Number Six (which he resists proclaiming, "I am not a number! I am a free man!&quot and is constantly kept under surveillance by Number Two. In almost every episode, Number Two is replaced by a "new Number Two", either to confuse Number Six or because the 'old' Number Two was outsmarted by Number Six.





I loved every episode from the pilot to the finale, even the episode set in the Wild West, which actually fit into the pattern of interrogation perfectly. My favorite episode was the penultimate titled Once Upon a Time. It begins with Leo McKern, who had previously played Number Two in the second episode of the series, The Chimes of Big Ben, returning to the role for one last shot at breaking Number Six. He asks on the phone to his superior and gets approval to use "Degree Absolute" on Number Six. Degree Absolute is an extreme form of regressive therapy in which Number Two guides Number Six, who has mentally regressed to a child, through Shakespeare's Seven Ages of Man in the hopes of discovering, as every Number Two throughout the series has attempted, why Number Six resigned. Throughout these seven ages, Number Two conducts tests in which he plays an authority figure and Number Six must react in a subordinate role. However, Number Six turns the tables eventually locking Number Two in a room for torment as time for the session runs out. Number Two collapses, apparently dead, and when the Supervisor played by Peter Swanwick enters to ask what Number Six wants, he agrees to give Number Six an audience with the figure he's been asking to confront ever since his imprisonment in The Village: the elusive Number One.

What makes this episode both ahead of its time and incredibly relevant to today is in illustrating how the combination of torture and drugs have been used in the pursuit of mind control. I've written previously on this blog about the subject of MK-ULTRA, the CIA mind control program conducted in secret during the 1950s. Yet knowledge of this classified program did not become public until the 1970s. So in that regard, McGoohan seems to be extremely prescient (or extremely connected) in his enactment of mind control techniques. As for contemporary relevance, one need only read Naomi Klein's The Shock Doctrine to understand that these same techniques have become the favored method of pressure on "enemy combatants" kept prisoner at Guantanamo Bay. Not only has this "enhanced interrogation" been applied to foreign detainees, but in the case of Bradley Manning we have an American citizen whose lawyers alleged that while in solitary confinement at Fort Quantico, Manning was alternately kept naked and forced to sleep in a straitjacket, while being "drugged heavily with antidepressants." Whatever you may think of what Edward Snowden did with his subsequent leak, in the wake of these allegations, can you blame him for escaping from the USA and preferring to spend the rest of his life in exile?


But I digress. We're approaching another anniversary where JFK's assassins have escaped justice. Strangely enough, there is an incident where an intelligence operative who sought to expose part of the charade erected by the conspirators faced his own Degree Absolute.

Read more at the link...

http://americanjudas.blogspot.com/2014/11/degree-absolute-and-jfk-assassination.html
35 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Degree Absolute and the JFK Assassination Conspiracy (Original Post) robertpaulsen Nov 2014 OP
Unfortunately RP, we may never know who assassinated JFK, shraby Nov 2014 #1
Good to see you too, shraby! robertpaulsen Nov 2014 #3
I hope to live long enough to see those documents, but since shraby Nov 2014 #6
Me also I expect the secrets to be revealed. They are just waiting for those of us who care to die jwirr Nov 2014 #16
bottom line, Allen Dulles grasswire Nov 2014 #2
Yeah, the real Godfather. robertpaulsen Nov 2014 #17
The Prisoner remains my favorite drama in the history of TV. hifiguy Nov 2014 #4
I wish I had seen The Prisoner sooner. Absolutely riveting! robertpaulsen Nov 2014 #29
Lee Harvey Oswald assassinated JFK with a $21 dollar high powered rifle. MohRokTah Nov 2014 #5
I have a bridge to sell you. shraby Nov 2014 #8
No sale MohRokTah Nov 2014 #13
Since when is Slate the end all be all? shraby Nov 2014 #14
The article goes into detail of how the Warren Commission holds up 50 years later MohRokTah Nov 2014 #15
Any time the powers that be lock up a story about something for 75 years, shraby Nov 2014 #18
. MohRokTah Nov 2014 #22
And you know this because? You believe the discredited Warren Commission? Zen Democrat Nov 2014 #9
. MohRokTah Nov 2014 #12
It's amazing how for 50 years, everyone focused on the first 2 shots louis-t Nov 2014 #10
Oh brother MohRokTah Nov 2014 #11
Uh, nothing in that article that I didn't already know and louis-t Nov 2014 #21
LOL, maybe a UFO did it, or Bigfoot? nt Logical Nov 2014 #24
+1000, sad how people love conspiricys! The truth bores them! nt Logical Nov 2014 #20
It's hard to accept that a lone nutball could kill the most powerful man in the world. MohRokTah Nov 2014 #26
Precious salt for Captain Alfred Dreyfus. No doubt, he was simply bored also. LanternWaste Nov 2014 #30
And all the forensic evidence says so, no matter what the conspiracy theory kooks make up. nt longship Nov 2014 #27
Except, it doesn't, no matter what all the lone nut crackpots repeat. Octafish Nov 2014 #32
Oh really? Well, ain't that enlightening! robertpaulsen Nov 2014 #34
I remember watching the series. louis-t Nov 2014 #7
''Who is Number One?'' Octafish Nov 2014 #19
What McGoohan and McKern accomplished in hifiguy Nov 2014 #28
I was hoping friend Octafish would make an appearance here navarth Nov 2014 #33
There is a specific forum for this shit and this isn't it! nt Logical Nov 2014 #23
we have a forum for "boring and irrelevant"? SCantiGOP Nov 2014 #31
And the JFK threads begin in the nick of time! KamaAina Nov 2014 #25
Locking. Sissyk Nov 2014 #35

shraby

(21,946 posts)
1. Unfortunately RP, we may never know who assassinated JFK,
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 02:22 PM
Nov 2014

but I'll bet my bottom dollar that whoever engineered that, was responsible for Robert, and MLK.
And that whole thing was closely connected with the vendetta against Clinton and now Obama.
Strange isn't it how all were/are Democrats?
Good to see you on here again RP.

robertpaulsen

(8,632 posts)
3. Good to see you too, shraby!
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 02:53 PM
Nov 2014

On one level, you are sadly correct. Too much evidence has been destroyed. But there is still SO much evidence yet to be released. My hope is that when the HSCA documents are released in 2029 (unless "National Security" delays it) we will see more evidence of skullduggery by Howard Hunt, David Atlee Phillips and others from "that whole Bay of Pigs thing." Then in 2038 we're supposed to see the full release of Warren Commission documents. Or not. We'll see.

But I also agree that it always seems to be Democrats trying to enact meaningful change that are targeted. Some things unfortunately never change!

shraby

(21,946 posts)
6. I hope to live long enough to see those documents, but since
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 03:06 PM
Nov 2014

I'm 72, that's a long shot!
I'll be watching from beyond though cause I never once bought the official stories.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
16. Me also I expect the secrets to be revealed. They are just waiting for those of us who care to die
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 03:30 PM
Nov 2014

so they can spin it their own way.

grasswire

(50,130 posts)
2. bottom line, Allen Dulles
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 02:40 PM
Nov 2014

That was a fascinating read. Thanks.

robertpaulsen

(8,632 posts)
17. Yeah, the real Godfather.
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 03:32 PM
Nov 2014

It's incredible how Dulles was simultaneously so well-connected and completely insulated he was. And how did Dulles feel about JFK, even after 11/22/63? I believe Dulles is on record as saying, "That little Kennedy. He thought he was a god."

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
4. The Prisoner remains my favorite drama in the history of TV.
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 02:57 PM
Nov 2014

The local public TV station re-ran it in the mid-1970s and I watched it with fanatical dedication. The primary thing I took from it was to maintain a studied, constantly wary mistrust of any and all authority.

By far the most plausible, detailed and sensible theory of who killed JFK and why is set forth by Lamar Waldron in Legacy of Secrecy and The Hidden History of the JFK Assassination. The essence of which is that it was two Mob godfathers working with low-level CIA assets, such as Oswald, the Mob having been in cahoots with the CIA in attempts to overthrow Castro. A conspiracy, yes, but a smalllish one and not the grand conspiracy that some believe in, though there were plenty of TPTB who were more than happy to see Kennedy rubbed out. The silly SOB thought he was actually POTUS! And yes, some of the same people were connected to the MLK and RFK assassinations, which were almost certainly Mob-related operations.

robertpaulsen

(8,632 posts)
29. I wish I had seen The Prisoner sooner. Absolutely riveting!
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 03:54 PM
Nov 2014

I'll probably be rewatching it from start to finish very soon.

I've got kind of mixed feelings about Waldron. I've only read his book with Hartmann, Ultimate Sacrifice, so my opinion is a bit limited in that regard. I do think he has done a fantastic job detailing the Mob connections with the assassination. Also, there is some good work mapping out the operational context with CIA operatives like David Sanchez Morales. But I can't help thinking of that scene in JFK:

Jim Garrison: I don't doubt their involvement, Bill, but at a low level. Could the mob change the parade route? Or eliminate the protection for the President? Could the mob send Oswald to Russia and get him back? Could the mob get the FBI, the CIA, and the Dallas Police to make a mess of the investigation? I mean, could the mob get the Warren Commission appointed to cover it up? Could the mob wreck the autopsy? Could the mob influence the national media to go to sleep? And since when has the mob used anything but .38s for hits up close? The mob wouldn't have the guts or the power for something of this magnitude. Assassins need payrolls, schedules, times, orders. This was a military style ambush from star to finish. A coup d'etat with Lyndon Johnson waiting in the wings.

I'm wondering if Waldron addressed the Oswald double in Mexico City. Does he think the Mob set that up? Seems a bit beyond their capacity, IMHO.

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
5. Lee Harvey Oswald assassinated JFK with a $21 dollar high powered rifle.
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 03:00 PM
Nov 2014

Nobody else was involved, regardless of whatever wacked out conspiracy theory somebody may want to buy into.

shraby

(21,946 posts)
8. I have a bridge to sell you.
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 03:07 PM
Nov 2014
 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
13. No sale
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 03:20 PM
Nov 2014

shraby

(21,946 posts)
14. Since when is Slate the end all be all?
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 03:25 PM
Nov 2014

I remember it happening and didn't buy the story line then and haven't for one day in the intervening years.

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
15. The article goes into detail of how the Warren Commission holds up 50 years later
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 03:27 PM
Nov 2014

and how the House conclusion that there was a second shooter is hooey.

Nobody has ever presented a cohesive theory that fits ALL of the evidence, except the Warren Commission

shraby

(21,946 posts)
18. Any time the powers that be lock up a story about something for 75 years,
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 03:33 PM
Nov 2014

there are some high powered people involved who don't want their involvement known.
75 years is a long time...long enough for most people living at the time it happened to die off and hopefully the youngest ones won't remember or care about it anymore.
Otherwise, if everything happened as the story said that was presented at the time, there would be NO reason to put under lock and key at all.
NO REASON.
That's what it was..a story. Not a finding of any facts.

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
22. .
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 03:34 PM
Nov 2014

Zen Democrat

(5,901 posts)
9. And you know this because? You believe the discredited Warren Commission?
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 03:11 PM
Nov 2014

louis-t

(23,292 posts)
10. It's amazing how for 50 years, everyone focused on the first 2 shots
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 03:12 PM
Nov 2014

and not on the final shot, which I now believe may have come from the car following Kennedy. The 'accidental discharge' theory. Interesting.

louis-t

(23,292 posts)
21. Uh, nothing in that article that I didn't already know and
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 03:34 PM
Nov 2014

nothing in there debunks the theory about the accidental discharge, which I had never heard of until recently. The other stuff has all been debunked. I have been fascinated with JFK since childhood, I remember exactly where I was and what I was doing when it happened. "Magic bullet" was all based on improper facts, and was actually re-enacted by Myth Busters. They proved to my satisfaction that one bullet could do that much damage. There is no real evidence to suggest a conspiracy. There is no evidence of a second shooter other than multiple people at ground level that said they smelled gunpowder, which couldn't have been from Oswald as he was 5 stories up and downwind.

 

Logical

(22,457 posts)
24. LOL, maybe a UFO did it, or Bigfoot? nt
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 03:36 PM
Nov 2014
 

Logical

(22,457 posts)
20. +1000, sad how people love conspiricys! The truth bores them! nt
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 03:34 PM
Nov 2014
 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
26. It's hard to accept that a lone nutball could kill the most powerful man in the world.
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 03:40 PM
Nov 2014

There was only one presidential assassination in US history that involved a conspiracy.

The first one.

And even that conspiracy probably dragged an innocent woman into the consequences for the conspiracy.

Since Abraham Lincoln's assassination, three lone nutballs have succeeded in assassinating presidents.

And several more have attempted to assassinate presidents.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
30. Precious salt for Captain Alfred Dreyfus. No doubt, he was simply bored also.
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 04:00 PM
Nov 2014

Precious salt for Captain Alfred Dreyfus or the victims of the Tuskegee experiments. No doubt, they were simply bored also.

(may want to move the goal posts at this point...)

longship

(40,416 posts)
27. And all the forensic evidence says so, no matter what the conspiracy theory kooks make up. nt
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 03:45 PM
Nov 2014

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
32. Except, it doesn't, no matter what all the lone nut crackpots repeat.
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 04:03 PM
Nov 2014

robertpaulsen

(8,632 posts)
34. Oh really? Well, ain't that enlightening!
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 04:18 PM
Nov 2014


Would you care to weigh in on what really happened with the "little incident in Mexico City" I referred to? Did you even bother to click the link? Cuz I gotta tell ya: I did read that Slate link you keep pimping and they didn't expalin it at all. So what's your spin on how that fits into your lone nut thesis?

louis-t

(23,292 posts)
7. I remember watching the series.
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 03:07 PM
Nov 2014

I was 11 and don't remember much of the story lines other than the overall premise.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
19. ''Who is Number One?''
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 03:33 PM
Nov 2014

Great show, The Prisoner. Patrick McGoohan as Number 6 and Leo McKern as Number 2 are two of the great characters in all fiction. The show was a primer on how to break a man and how the man who refuses to break, in turn, breaks those trying to break him. There's a lesson there for Democrats.



Yuri Nosenko seems to have been a false defector sent by his KGB bosses to make clear to America that the USSR was not behind the assassination of President Kennedy. Angleton didn't like what he heard, especially after J Edgar Hoover and the FBI reported that they had heard the KGB suspected Oswald as being an American agent. So, Angleton (Helms) locked the guy up in solitary confinement for three years and dosed him with drugs until he started to froth. DUer John Simkin's Spartacus Schoolnet has great background and links.

Regarding 51 years: Kennedy did all he could in his 1,037 days in office to keep the peace and make life better for ALL Americans. Those too young to remember and those who weren't then born can be forgiven for not understanding just how different the nation has become since then.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
28. What McGoohan and McKern accomplished in
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 03:46 PM
Nov 2014

"Once Upon A Time" was a tour-de-force of acting brilliance.

But the most chilling moment in the series - one that still makes my flesh creep to this day - is the shot of Number Six's London townhouse at the end of the last episode. The door opens automaically as The Butler stands in front of it. One of the most unsettling things I have ever seen in drama and I am a David Lynch fan.

We All Live In The Village.

navarth

(5,927 posts)
33. I was hoping friend Octafish would make an appearance here
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 04:06 PM
Nov 2014

and I'm not surprised you like the Prisoner. I have the entire set, a birthday present to myself some years ago.

Who is number one?

I don't accept the Oswald theory. Too many people go out of their way to tell me I'm crazy if I think it was a plot. What's their stake in it? What the fuck do they care about what I believe?

 

Logical

(22,457 posts)
23. There is a specific forum for this shit and this isn't it! nt
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 03:35 PM
Nov 2014

SCantiGOP

(13,869 posts)
31. we have a forum for "boring and irrelevant"?
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 04:02 PM
Nov 2014
 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
25. And the JFK threads begin in the nick of time!
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 03:38 PM
Nov 2014

Sissyk

(12,665 posts)
35. Locking.
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 04:23 PM
Nov 2014

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•Threads promoting so-called "conspiracy theories" are not permitted and should be posted in the Creative Speculation Group.

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