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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe Real JFK Mystery, 50 Years Later: Why The Infamous Murder Must Be Reinvestigated - Salon
This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by In_The_Wind (a host of the General Discussion forum).
On the 50th anniversary, so many questions remain. Here's why every piece of evidence must be viewed in a new light
JUSTYN DILLINGHAM - Salon
SATURDAY, NOV 22, 2014 06:15 AM PST
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As far as the vast majority of the American press is concerned, critics of the Warren Commission are in a class with the paranoids who doubt that the moon landing occurred, that President Obama was born in the United States, or that al Qaeda was responsible for the 2001 terrorist attacks. They insist, as Adam Gopnik did in a meandering New Yorker essay last year, that the evidence that the American security services gathered, within the first hours and weeks and months, to persuade the world of the sole guilt of Lee Harvey Oswald remains formidable, and that anyone who differs with this assessment is an obsessive or a buff with no life. Some defenders of the Warren verdict sound as passionate as any conspiracy theorists: Chris Matthews, an admirer of Kennedy, once told his audience that assassination skeptics cling to conspiracy theories because they cannot bear the suffering that truth brings to the heart and to the mind.
It can be shocking, after reading such dismissive remarks, to learn that some of the most powerful people in the United States expressed skepticism about the official account of JFKs death. John Kerry might have startled some people when he admitted last year that he entertained serious doubts about the Warren verdict, but he was far from the first member of the political establishment to say so.
President Lyndon Johnson, who commissioned the Warren Report, was never satisfied by its conclusions. I cant honestly say that Ive ever been completely relieved of the fact that there might have been international connections, he told Walter Cronkite in 1969, adding that Oswald was a mysterious fellow whose motivations remained uncertain. I never believed that Oswald acted alone, although I can accept that he pulled the trigger, he told another journalist in 1971. Senator Richard Russell, a member of the Warren Commission, disagreed with the final report, particularly the controversial claim that JFK and Texas Governor John Connally had been struck by the same bulleta conclusion that Connally himself doubted.
While the Kennedy family has been guarded in its public statements on the subject, they privately expressed doubts that Oswald had acted alone. A week after the assassination, Robert and Jacqueline Kennedy sent a back-channel message to Soviet leaders, telling them that they believed that the president was felled by domestic opponents. In 2013, Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. revealed that his father had dismissed the Warren Report as a shoddy piece of craftsmanship.
Other Washington bigwigs have given voice to similar suspicions. In his memoirs, former House Speaker Tip ONeill recalled that JFK aides Kenneth ODonnell and Dave Powersboth of whom had been riding in JFKs motorcade at the moment of the assassinationonce told him that they had heard two shots coming from the grassy knoll, across the street from where Oswald is alleged to have fired all of the shots. CIA Director John McCone told RFK that he believed two gunmen had been present in Dealey Plaza. In 1992, both Al Gore and Bill Clinton expressed guarded doubts that Oswald had acted alone.
In short, even as the media strained to portray the Warren Commissions verdict as unassailable, some of the most powerful figures in Washington, past and present, publicly and privately admitted that they found it hard to swallow. None of these people were flakes, none were easily fooled, and none could be considered obsessives or buffs. Why did they feel, instinctively, that something was wrong in the Kennedy case?
The answer lies not in the much-debated minutiae of the casein how many shots were fired, the order in which the wounds were inflicted, and the reliability of each witness. The real mystery lies not in the facts that are disputed, but in the facts that are known. There is something profoundly strange about the story of Lee Harvey Oswald as it was presented by the Warren Commission.
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Much More (plus lotsa links): http://www.salon.com/2014/11/22/the_real_jfk_mystery_50_years_later_why_the_infamous_murder_must_be_reinvestigated/
gordianot
(15,254 posts)...with complaints about conspiracy theorist. In general America has learned to take the crap they are fed and do not have the curiosity to investigate anything.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)So, was Ted stupid or in on it?
former9thward
(32,146 posts)http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/11/24/his-brother-keeper-robert-kennedy-saw-conspiracy-jfk-assassination/TmZ0nfKsB34p69LWUBgsEJ/story.html
gordianot
(15,254 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)As it should be. Conspiracy Theory crap belongs in the dungeon.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)He provides links to those quotes ya know...
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)It is insanity, nothing more.
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)I can see discussion to some extent on the anniversary day... but this is the day after, and we've got a forum for that.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5856140
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)discussion carry on? Is it self-righteousness? Or a fear that the reality as you know it, may not be true. I don't mind at all if people don't want to believe but I do have a problem when they try to butt in and interfere with my discussions. Again, how does it hurt you to allow this discussion to go on?
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)I don't believe I did. Why does everyone jump to full force ridiculousness when someone merely gives an OP a heads up?
That is extremely interesting to me. I don't have too many problems with too many people or issues here. If I were you, and this is so important to you, I would PM a host about unlocking the original thread.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)If so, I apologize. I am overly sensitive to those here that are determined to dictate what we discuss and where.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)and suppressing this would be an insult to the JFK legacy.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)that was last year.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)but I still think it's always timely each year, to get closer to the truth about what really happened.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Case closed.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)are you trying so hard to force your opinion on others? That's not very open-minded.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)I discovered that's precisely what it is, crap.
former9thward
(32,146 posts)Move along. Nothing to see here...
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)It certainly isn't open-minded liberals. It's the conservative mind set that demands that if you don't fit into their reality, you must be smote.
Apparently open-mindedness and skepticism of the authorities scares them.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)They can trash them, or put me on ignore...
I really don't care...
But they sure wanna make sure they go away for everybody else who's interested...
Why is that?
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)What is really funny is that I have a bookshelf full of JFK stuff. Sometimes, I think we all need to take a step back, breathe, and then realize what someone actually said.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)when you say "move to CS". Why not let the discussion continue? Did I misunderstand?
JI7
(89,288 posts)what he did. it was about why oswald did it.
he wasn't questioning what actually happened but wondering what oswald's motives were.
Parade
NOVEMBER 13, 2013 9:00 AM 10 COMMENTS
Link: http://communitytable.com/226397/parade/john-kerry-i-have-serious-doubts-that-lee-harvey-oswald-acted-alone-the-day-jfk-died/
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)JI7
(89,288 posts)and it's clear he was referring to what influenced or inspired oswald to do what he did.
he was not questioning what happened.
when the conspiracy theory types tried to use what he said to push the usual crap i knew it was bs because i listened to what he said myself.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)From the link above...
JI7
(89,288 posts)which motivated him to do what he did.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)actually people that are conspiring in ways that might not be beneficial to the 99%. Those that are afflicted demean and disparage anyone that doesn't buy the propaganda promulgated by the authoritarian leaders. These people do not have open minds and can often be heard claiming that they and only they know the truth. I call these people conservatives.
blue neen
(12,335 posts)you keep "calling people conservatives" who don't agree with what you or the OP are saying about JFK's assassination. Come on---how about this---maybe that just don't agree with you. They're not conservatives and they're not following their "authoritarian leaders". People have different opinions and are allowed to express those opinions on this message board. Geez.
With that being said, I have never agreed with the Warren Commission's findings and never will. There are so many implausibilities that it boggles the mind.
There are so many possibilities of possible suspects and people who had strong motivations to want Kennedy dead that it's still difficult for me to decide who I think was responsible. Most of the time, I learn towards the Mafia, but then read something else that changes my thinking.
At any rate, the possibility of us ever knowing the truth is slim to none.
malokvale77
(4,879 posts)the fact that no President since has tried to rein in the MIC or the CIA.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Now that the M$M is completely bought and paid for, they never have to worry about it again.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)Nor has any president since, save Carter, been timid about deploying US troops as Cops of the World in service to private corporate interests.
malokvale77
(4,879 posts)President Carter being interviewed by Rowan Farrow (?).
He is a very much undervalued gem.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)who got "October-surprised" out of the WH way to early IMHO.
pacalo
(24,721 posts)It is highly implausible that the full truth behind John F. Kennedys assassination lies buried in those unreleased documents. It is more likely that they contain clues that would further weaken the official account, perhaps to the point where many Americans would feel that their instinctive skepticism was justified enough to demand a new investigation into the matter. Fifty years is a long time to wait for a satisfactory answer; we should have not to wait for fifty more.
dflprincess
(28,094 posts)Russell Long was the most vocal about not buying the single bullet theory. Andil if you don't believe in the magic bullet you don't believe in a single shooter.
Zen Democrat
(5,901 posts)Sen. John Sherman Cooper of Kentucky was the third who did not believe the Commission Report he signed. See YouTube of him discussing this. Those 3 only signed because they were promised their dissent would be published. It not only was not published but was covered up. It ripped up the relationship between Russell and LBJ, or what was left of it after the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
pa28
(6,145 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Last edited Mon Nov 24, 2014, 03:14 AM - Edit history (1)
As the film Executive Action points out, most assassination attempts in US history have been made by assassins who attacked at close range. Most of the assassins were quite possibly truly deranged.
Assuming Oswald was the assassin, he approached his work in a strange way, not like the other assassins.
Normally, insane assassins attack so as to be found, so as to confront the person they attack and maybe so as to watch that person die or suffer or at least show weakness due to the attack. Maybe for most of them, the act is about confronting a powerful or famous person and feeling a sense of power over that powerful or famous person who as the insane person perceives it ignores them.
Oswald allegedly shot Kennedy from the distance, tried to run away. His attack was well thought through and organized. It was clearly premeditated at least beginning that morning even if there was no conspiracy.
He is just not the usual lone, insane assassin.
The case does need to be reviewed once again. His personality, conduct and the nature of the attack don't make sense. He might have had two personalities or something, but the Salon article is right to propose a re-investigation. The contradictions and oddities in the facts the article focuses on deserve review.
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)It was Oswald. It wasn't anyone else. We know who did it, and not only that, we can get a pretty good idea of why he may have done it: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/the_spectator/2013/11/philip_shenon_s_a_cruel_and_shocking_act_stunning_reporting_in_new_book.single.html
Oswald was a self-professed Communist and admirer of Castro; Kennedy's CIA was trying without successs to assassinate Castro, and Oswald, during his trip to Mexico City, became aware of this. Oswald had the means, the opportunity, and the knowledge of American assassination attempts against Castro gives him a motive. And, crucially: all the evidence says that the fatal shots came from Oswald's rifle, from the 6th floor of the Book Depository. Fifty years of supposition and speculation have never produced any evidence of any other shooter or any shots from any other location.
villager
(26,001 posts)Faced with a substantial hole in their case, the Commission tried to plug it by filling the report with airy speculation about Oswalds tormented psyche. Oswald, they insisted, was someone who had been driven by resentment of all authority, antagonism toward the United States and an urge to try to find a place in history. Perhaps he had shot the president, the Report blandly suggested, because of his inability to enter into meaningful relationships with people.
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)This is Oswald in Mexico City being told of Kennedy's assassination plot against Castro by Cubans. You can't pretend these things are totally irrelevant. (And random speculations about Oswald's sentiments toward Kennedy ignore the physical evidence that it was his rifle and the shots came from the TSBD.)
Droning Predator
(82 posts)http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025857590 Hidden by jury.
Why does the OP get to post this in GD (instead of Creative Speculation, as I was told?)
Scuba
(53,475 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)Including Oswald and Ruby and Mrs. Kennedy Onassis (who thought businessmen were responsible)
For those still alive, recollections have faded. And, who knows? Evidence may have been destroyed. Lyndon Johnson told the members of the Warren Commission that had to take the assignment because their country needed them to. I think the message was that this HAD to put to rest fast, or the country might blow up.
Any new investigation is only going to confirm the Warren Commission's findings. PBS aired one not long ago that did just that.
In_The_Wind
(72,300 posts)You might want to repost in Creative Speculation.