Garner Protests - They're on the bridge(s) too - This from Notify NYC

[LiberalElite]

Notification issued 12/03/2014 at 9:15 PM. Due to protest activity, expect extensive traffic delays on the Manhattanbound Robert F. Kennedy Bridge. Consider alternate routes into Manhattan.



The sender provided the following contact information.
Sender's Name: Notify NYC
Sender's Email: [e-mail]

(Notify NYC provides email and text notifications of emergencies and significant events among other things)

[misterhighwasted]

1. Just read a post saying they had managed to shut dow NYC

Assuming that meant main traffic in and out..

[LiberalElite]

2. There's a number of tunnels & bridges in and around

they must have really been swarming. I'm going to post this in LBN:

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/12/03/eric-garner-decision-protests/

[sir pball]

40. They haven't "shut down NYC", not by a long shot

I get all the Notify NYC alerts, so far it's the West Side Highway, RFK/Triborough bridge inbound, and major snarls in the Times Square/Rockefeller Center area. Also lots of people in all the parks, look for a good showing at Union Square tomorrow (though we all know to avoid that place when things get dicey, it's ground zero for protest).

Practically, I had to take my second-choice subway home since my main train is down and the buses are subject to traffic. Took about 15 minutes longer than usual.

[brooklynite]

73. Once again, apparently "NYC" equates to "Manhattan"...

[customerserviceguy]

3. Yes, let's fuck with people

who were not on the grand jury, had nothing to do with the case, and probably are sympathetic to Gardner's family's cause. Which may well turn them against that cause.

Protest, bitch, scream, yell, whatever. But it's counterproductive to screw with people you're trying to get on your side.

[morningfog]

4. Oh look, another white guy who doesn't get it.

[customerserviceguy]

6. Oh look, another "fuck everybody" guy who doesn't get it

You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar.

[morningfog]

8. Yep. You don't get it. It has jack shit to do with catching flies.

If you don't get it by now, just get out of the way and let the rest march towards justice.

[customerserviceguy]

11. Yeah, and you watch

how the protests against this that get out of control alienate the very people we need to get on our side.

I have no idea how old you are, but I'm damned well old enough to remember how race-based rioting during the last half of the Sixties turned the electorate towards that rat bastard Richard Nixon, even with George Wallace bleeding off the worst of the racist vote, and grabbing the electoral votes from five states that would have gone with Nixon had Wallace not been a candidate in the 1968 election.

[morningfog]

14. This is not about coalition building.

It is as if you don't understand the words I write. This is not about policy changes. This is pure, and warranted, expressions of rage. They are necessary. The rage is building and it is not your place to judge the the actions. It is not your place to presume you know what is best for them or that you understand their objectives. Because you clearly do not.

[customerserviceguy]

16. Those expressions of rage

that mess with people who are potentially part of the solution, and were never part of the problem, will backfire like crazy. I've lived long enough to see numerous examples of this.

But cheer them on, and see where it gets you and them.

[rbrnmw]

28. I will join them in DC next Saturday.

I wonder how many undecided racists live there?

[Kalidurga]

52. If the majority were actually part of the solution

we would not be having mass protests.

[NOLALady]

33. Rioting

did not turn the election towards Nixon.

The passage of the Civil Rights Bill turned the masses towards Republican Rule.

[Warpy]

48. Exactly, the Republicans actively wooed all the southern bigots

and a lot of politicians switched parties fast. It was called the Southern Strategy and it worked to get Nixon in for eight rotten years, the last two of which were occupied by Ford and his WIN buttons.

Hating hippies and war protestors paled in comparison as a motivation to abandon the Democrats.

[DesertFlower]

79. i'm also old enough to remember.

[DesertFlower]

78. i agree.

[rbrnmw]

5. Whatever they are exercising their 1st Amendment Rights get over it

[customerserviceguy]

7. Excercising 1st Amendment rights

doesn't involve screwing with other peoples' rights to travel freely, especially when they had NOTHING TO DO WITH THE EVENTUAL DECISION BY THE GRAND JURY.

What part of that do you need further explanation on?

[rbrnmw]

10. what part of Civil Disobedience don't you get?

[morningfog]

15. What the fuck? "Turn undecided people into racists?"

What are you talking about? People don't turn into racists like they choose their outfit for the day.

"Hm, I'm still undecided. Should I be a racist or not?"

[customerserviceguy]

20. Wait, and watch for the reactions

I'll be surprised if you don't judge them as racist.

Bottom line, piss people off who are part of the problem, not those who are potentially part of the solution.

[morningfog]

21. I was on my way home today and decided to become a racist!

Traffic delay in NYC pales in comparison to police murders.

[customerserviceguy]

23. You will never get it

and I'm completely done with trying to get my point across to you. However, future news coverage will make my argument. Watch for it, and sit in wonderment how NY'ers will react to the protests against things they don't support and had nothing to do with. You might learn something.

[morningfog]

24. I'll be sure to watch for those future news reports.

In tonight's news, Racists have grown by 30% due to undecideds stuck in traffic.

In other news, some old ass white guys remain racist.

[rbrnmw]

27. No doubt

I think I might want to be racist today, but I'm still undecided.

[Dont call me Shirley]

29. Protests are about making people who are not aware, become aware, if that makes the unawared

uncomfortable and inconvenienced then so be it. Protesting is an act of waking sleeping people up, and sometimes being awakened is not pleasant.

I support the protestors. Honk! Honk!

[NOLALady]

35. Racists

always use protests to justify their racism.

[sir pball]

37. Actually, most of us will cheerfully support as long as the protests just snarl traffic

I mean, it's not like we aren't used to random, complete FUBARs of transport around here. Hell, even if they messed with the subways it wouldn't be too bad; I can't count how many times I've gone completely homicidal "because of a broken rail/track condition/signal malfunction/equipment issue, 1 trains are suspended."

Like I said, just don't mess with the tree.

[uppityperson]

70. Someone bought all the eggnog at the store today, donated to the food bank, left none for me!!!!!

I think I'll become a racist because someone screwed with my everyday life to make a point that even people who can't buy eggnog deserve some.



Or would that be classist? Yes, I think that is it. I will never help anyone struggling financially because of that eggnog.

[MoonRiver]

65. I don't like these arguments, but,

I think the, reasonable, inconvenienced people will blame the corrupt grand jury, rather than those expressing outrage.

[LiberalElite]

60. When did you go over to the other side? nt

[sir pball]

9. The only thing I wasn't OK with (as a resident) was the tree.

Commercialism, hype, whatever, it's a goddamn Christmas tree the lighting of which is a happy holiday event for a lot of families and innocent kids - fucking with that is just plain mean-spirited and, well, Grinchy.

Other than that, have at - I'm about to leave work and my commute is damn likely going to be quite a bit longer and, wjatever

[customerserviceguy]

13. Good luck getting home

Even though you are going to be messed with, despite not being a member of the corrupt grand jury.

Sometimes protestors don't have a clue how they hurt their own cause by screwing with people who are inclined to be sympathetic, yet get turned by being indirectly blamed for the actions of others.

[morningfog]

18. Do you think members of the grand jury should be targeted?

The problem is systemic, it isn't the grand jurors.

[customerserviceguy]

22. They're more to blame

than ordinary citizens just trying to get home.

My point is, don't screw with people you might just be able to get on your side.

[sir pball]

32. It wasn't a problem as much as an inconvenience.

The 1 train isn't running so I was going to take the bus; fat luck with that tonight. So I had to go wait for an A train. Compared to what happened to Eric Garner I have no complaints at all.

[morningfog]

17. It's a symbol of the fascist state.

Consumerism, corporatism and authoritarian government wrapped into on big militarized party.

[sir pball]

26. No, it's a fucking Christmas tree.

Yes, as adults we can perceive a lot of the bullshit that has quite throughly worked its way into the holiday...but I personally know at least a dozen kids, from four months to 10, who went to the lighting for the innocent joy of it. Inreitierate, a crowd of angry protesters shutting it down would just be mean.

I'm assuming you avoid the so-called "holiday" altogether; I hope you don't harangue people about it at least.

[Dont call me Shirley]

30. It's a Christmas tree named for a family who is promoting hatred, racism and division.

That was not Jesus' message. He would throw the tree over just as he did at the money tables. He would be disgusted and saddened by the horrors done in his name.

[sir pball]

31. As I said, we realize this as adults

That said, I know when I was a tyke going to see the lighting, I had no idea about the Rockefellers, or the commercialization of the holiday (thankfully I was raised in a family that made XMas more about being together, giving and sharing, than BUY BUY BUY) - it was just a happy start to the season and some of my most cherished memories. Maybe I'm special in that I can have deeply conflicting views, being aware of grave injustices and cynical manipulations, while still feeling sympathetic towards the kids who just see a GIANT TREE!

[Dont call me Shirley]

36. Seeing a giant tree light up is magical to a child.

It would be so much more magical for everyone if we could equally share in the prosperity of the earth.

[sir pball]

38. Yes. I don't even disagree with you.

I just think it would have been a pretty horrid thing to do to the children, who make up a lot if not the majority of the crowd, to shut down the tree lighting. I don't disagree that the trappings of the tree are questionable at best, and there are much loftier goals we as a society should be striving for - but I don't think essentially stealing Christmas from the innocents is a terribly good way to do it. Peace?

[rbrnmw]

42. No it would be a teachable moment

Parents can tell them why people are protesting

[sir pball]

45. I think the ones who would be young enough to be really upset by missing the lighting

Would be a little too young to appreciate the protests and the reasoning behind them. I mean, maybe there could be some good to be taken from it, but IMO on the whole shutting down the tree would have been more, well, cruel than helpful. Letting the protesters be visible without interfering OTOH, after the fun is done little Johnny can ask "Daddy, why are those people yelling" - equally as teachable to a tyke without being upsetting.

[Dont call me Shirley]

44. Remember this is about Eric Garner's life being stolen and his family's Christmas being stolen

for many years to come.

The families and kids can come back another time to see the magical tree, they are still alive.

Peace.

[sir pball]

46. This is probably the single greatest travesty of justice I've seen in my 35 years on the planet

Shit, if I had been physically present Eric Garner wouldn't be the dead man. Folding knives are legal in NYC.

And I still think that forcibly interrupting the tree lighting is more a petulant nasty thing to do than anything else.

Peace.

[Tsiyu]

54. There are so many lives being cut short

for no reason other than violent thug cops.

It is heartbreaking to think of the people who won't have their family members around ever again for Christmas.

Fuck a bunch f "Waaa Waaa I didn't get to see a big fancy tree and get that symbolism ingrained in my head that everything is all well with the world."

Everything is not well with the world, and it's a selfish, fucked up, petty parent whose takeaway from all this is whining about a goddamned Christmas tree.

I would use it as an opportunity to explain why things must change. My kids understood racism and hatred and greed and all of this from a very young age.

It just floors me how narcissistic people can be. "As long as my life is not troubled in any other way, your daddy's being choked to death by NYPD just isn't going to ruin my beautiful glorious holiday. Now Shoo! And have your little protest somewhere where nobody will notice and none of us is inconvenienced."

[sir pball]

61. The protests should absolutely be disruptive

Financial District should be such a nightmare today that the NYSE is down. City Hall should be surrounded 24/7. 1PP, where to even begin...a tend thousands strong die-in on the steps, for starters? That will get the right kind of attention. But no, let's just spread misery...please, educate me, what the hell is that supposed to accomplish?

[uppityperson]

71. Disrupting a tree lighting to protest racism and police violence is "spreading misery"?

May all of our lives be so simply and peaceful that not having a tree lit when you think it should have been causes misery.

[sir pball]

75. Children's lives are generally that simple, yes.

If it were almost any other event I wouldn't have a problem with it (might still think it's counterproductive but that's a different story) - but yes, forcibly disrupting the lighting in the act would make a lot of kids miserable. I know there are other posters who actually wanted that, but to me there's no redeeming protest value to it.

[uppityperson]

76. Ah, the Sacred Tree Lighting, that most important of all ceremonies that brings joy to all the child

children of the world.

Naw, it'd be a teaching moment that human rights are important. More important than some made up tree lighting thing.

Or maybe the little kids I know find joy in playing with their friends, sibs, parents. Having a book read to them, playing Candy Land, eating a meal together. A public tree lighting, while fun, is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy down there on the list.

[Dont call me Shirley]

62. So disrupting a Christmas tree lighting is nastier than anything else, worse than the murder

of a human?

[sir pball]

66. Where did I say that?

Of course it isn't, but it is a petty, nasty metaphorical pissing on the kids and the season. I honestly cannot fathom why so many people insist we all have to be nothing less than utterly miserable and devastated 24/7...I'm seriously waiting for #NoJusticeNoChristmas to take off and to see targeted protests at all the holiday celebrations around the country. No smiles!

[Dont call me Shirley]

67. Here...

And I still think that forcibly interrupting the tree lighting is more a petulant nasty thing to do than anything else.

[sir pball]

68. Ah, that's not what I meant. Ambiguous grammar.

Interrupting the tree lighting would be in itself more than anything else a petty, unpleasant thing to do, as opposed to being a constructive form of protest. Not that it would be the nastiest act possible, not at all.

[uppityperson]

72. It makes us "nothing less than utterly miserable and devastated"

woe, I say, woe.

[uppityperson]

49. Educating children is good. Letting them know that no, everything is not peachy is fine with me.

Use it to tell them why, and not "protesters are being stupid" but about the racism still so prevalent in this country.

[morningfog]

57. Welcome to te cruel world kids.

Lots of anger and injustice in it.

[Albertoo]

53. The US, a fascist state? Really?

It's one of the only 25 countries in the world with a functioning democracy

[LuvNewcastle]

56. Functioning?

[Recursion]

74. Yes, functioning. Have you lived in the developing world?

Have you lived somewhere that every -- and I mean literally every -- interaction you have with government requires money changing hands?

[Cali_Democrat]

25. Well maybe you should do more to help your fellow citizens

..who are being murdered by cops.

It's more important to actually live.

Deal with it.

At least you're still breathing.

[sir pball]

34. So should we just cancel Christmas?

So much I want to say, but shorter is better..

Should any of us be allowed any joy or pleasure at all in the season, or must we all be completely horrified, angry, and miserable until all wrongs are righted?

[rbrnmw]

39. If that's what it takes yes we should

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025906302

[sir pball]

41. I hope you don't have any young children in your family.

I know when I was six, a cranky uncle lecturing me on social injustice as a reason for not getting me a present would have just been miserable. Not a way to change hearts and minds.

[rbrnmw]

43. if approached in the right manner it would do just that

[uppityperson]

50. Hey kids, let's donate and help people get their rights, showing the true spirit of christmas,

altruistically giving and helping each other.

VS

Hey kids, no present for you because people are being treated like shit.

[sir pball]

51. Or just...let kids be kids

I mean, don't shower them with a gross overabundance, but it does take a bit of maturity to understand giving and helping even...I was doing it at nine (soup kitchen for lunch Xmas Eve and Xmas both, then home for dinner) but much younger than that and it's a lost cause. Give the tykes Santa and stockings.

[Tsiyu]

55. So teach them that "things" are more important than justice?

That's good.

We Americans do that well. We buy the kids all sorts of plastic shit made by poor slave labor in China and the Third World.

Babies must have their sparkly, no matter who suffers.

Actually, I think cancelling the material part of the holidays is a great idea. I didn't expect my uncles and aunts to buy me shit. I enjoyed their visit, playing music with my family, and eating food, singing carols, playing with the cousins. I was not warped because most relatives didn't bring me a goddamned sparkly toy.

This is a teachable moment. It's up to you to decide what to teach.

[sir pball]

64. I guess if you consider the tree lighting to be a "thing"

It is, or at least a good parent would present it as, a symbol (yes yes Rockefellers, rampant commercialism, so forth) of the season, nothing more. I think the classiest thing would have been for one of the celebrities to dedicate it to Eric Garner, but that's neither here nor there.

I certainly wasn't a spoiled child; I got gifts, but Xmas was always about bringing the family together first, spending time and celebrating each other. Yes, it's horrific that the Garner family will never have that again but insisting that we all have a sad holiday season, that daring to smile and be happy about anything at all is some great moral failing...well, I guess I'm just a selfish, pretty guy huh.

[uppityperson]

69. Let them be the center of the gift giving, tis better to receive than give?

Young kids are very giving and empathetic and switching the "what I want for christmas" to "what is the giving spirit about, what is this santa giving thing about, how can I join in by being a helper" works for children much younger than 9.

[morningfog]

58. Too bad you didn't have that uncle.

[KingCharlemagne]

19. It's 'Garner'. The least you could do is show the respect necessary to name the

victim properly, FFS. This post really takes the cake.

[Blue_Tires]

47. You were directly fucked with? Please explain...

[DesertFlower]

77. i agree. of course i'll probably be

told i'm not a real liberal as i was in another thread.

that being said i'm all for protesting.

think about it. children waiting to be picked up, people trying to get to work, people with diabetes who need insulin or need to eat, but real "liberals" don't care about that. they think everyone needs to inconvenienced to get justice.

[justiceischeap]

59. A tip for customerserviceguy if he's still reading this thread

How about using some of those customer service skills in this debate instead of being so ham-handed with your opinion. You don't seem to realize that your debating skills have the same effect you accuse the protestors of NY having by shutting down traffic.

[FSogol]

63. Whoops!