General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhere is the music? No music no movement.
No Marvin Gaye, Sly Stone, Country Joe, John Lennon, no Pete Seeger, and the list from the 50s 60s and 70s goes on. Demonstrations need a few verses, not just 4 or 5 word chants.
Us old farts remember.
kentauros
(29,414 posts)if they'll let their product (i.e., bands) make any songs for the movement. Of course, you won't hear any of them until they have been fully sanitized and homogenized for all markets.
Oh, and autotuned, too.
sendero
(28,552 posts)... said it better myself
safeinOhio
(32,695 posts)radio.
I still think if a major name makes it, it'll get played.
kentauros
(29,414 posts)But I was never a fan of protest or movement songs to begin with. I do want to be entertained, if only to a higher standard of quality than the corporations care to offer.
TexasProgresive
(12,157 posts)Even the feds couldn't shut up Seeger.
kentauros
(29,414 posts)So, did he get much airplay on Clear Channel?
TexasProgresive
(12,157 posts)That "venue" is no place to find music with any depth. When a piece that has real feeling, that actually says something about the human condition, makes it on Clear Channel it was an accident.
kentauros
(29,414 posts)Clear Channel (and other media conglomerates like them) control the product broadcast over the airways, and online. Like any "good" corporate parent, they make sure nothing is too objectionable to the masses, if at all. Protest music would only get airplay if it was protesting Obama, or any other ALEC-enemy.
Besides, as I understand the concept of protest music, it shows up after people have already begun protesting. If it takes a song to get "you" interested in the original event worthy of protest, I have to question why the event itself wasn't enough to get "you" riled up.
("you" = the rhetorical kind.)
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)bigwillq
(72,790 posts)olddots
(10,237 posts)Personized electronics are behind this .
safeinOhio
(32,695 posts)you have to click on link
But I'd love a "Tea Bag Boogie"
safeinOhio
(32,695 posts)jwirr
(39,215 posts)On election night in 72 a bunch of us listened to a recording of a song that said nothing more than shit, shit, shit. That made us feel better and may have been what we felt like at the moment but it did nothing to change anything. This protest song educates, protests, and makes the whole idea of going to Vietnam a sham because it is meant to move people to action.
That is what we need.
el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)So that there is probably 10 times more music available than there was in the 1960s. There are still protest bands out there - the problem is that they don't have the same cultural weight that they did in the 1960s.
You also have the issue of generational music tastes being different; so people doing protest music in the more modern style (rather than folk or folk rock) are often times not appreciated by old-timers who are looking around for this generations Pete Seeger.
Or that's my opinion anyway.
Bryant
kentauros
(29,414 posts)I may be (just barely) in the generation most likely to be considered wanting/liking protest songs, but a marketer would never make any headway with me. Modern music is what I like, so long as it's not commercialized. And so, I listen to public radio sources and similar sites online. I've never been a fan of protest music, then or now.
I figure I'm not alone, generation-wise, in these music tastes, either.
el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)Most of the bands I've listened to over the years have done songs about political or social issues - but that wasn't their whole focus - it was just part of what they did. Even very politically minded acts like Ani DiFranco or Rage Against the Machine, there's other subjects there too. But then again most of the famous protest groups of the 60s and so on did other tracks too. Other than those bands who very specifically focused on protests and performing at protests.
Bryant
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)How do you even know there's no music?
frazzled
(18,402 posts)Not only is the music industry fractured (largely the result of changes in technology); the culture at large is fractured. Maybe there's some alt groups with "protest" music that has a relatively small cult following. As opposed to those earlier days, when there wasn't a person in the nation who didn't know "We Shall Overcome." Those were anthems everyone knew to some extent.
I fail to see how the end of a monolithic national music culture spells doom for protests. I know the "old farts" in question had their Country Joe and Whoeverthehell-style folk music thing accompanying their protest culture (we all know because they'll never, EVER let anyone forget), but it doesn't follow that the lack of a goofy sing-along anthem is a problem today.
Personally I think "Hands up, don't shoot" is as powerful a chant as any 60s song lyrics would be.
safeinOhio
(32,695 posts)for the most part.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)There are many protest songs but few avenues for them to truly reach the largest audiences. For example the 3 companies that own all the radio stations in the US are never playing this song:
or this one (Clan Dyken):
and only occasionally this one:
Codeine
(25,586 posts)The handful of exceptions are just that -- exceptions. The vast majority of popular music has always been and will always be pabulum.
azmom
(5,208 posts)"This is what happens when you call the cops"
Wow. I have no words. I'm in shock.
azmom
(5,208 posts)The first video. All of DU needs to see that one.
GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)28 recs on the Greatest page, 1.2 mil views on YT
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017229429
azmom
(5,208 posts)Sending it to my network.
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)Protest music during the Sixties made its way by being passed between students and other sympathizers and in acts of cultural disobedience. With YouTube and other social media, it would seem to me that protest music could be disseminated much quicker today, as would be true for dissident writings. Gee whiz, you don't even need a mimeograph machine and an ocean of blue ink these days to get word around.
TexasProgresive
(12,157 posts)The songs that went "viral" during the sixties was as you say, "passed between students and sympathizers and in acts of cultural disobedience." They were not playing on smart phones but were sung but masses of people. The songs had to have simple melodies and words so that everyone could pick them up no matter their talent or lack.
I can see it now, a giant demonstration and everyone holding up their phones playing a different song, only nobody hears it because everyone has their ear buds plugged in. The labor songs of the 30s and the protest songs of the 60s were unifying. So the OP has it right- no music-the movement can't sustain.
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)and sit ins and places where people sat. And the songs were a point of unity with words passed around. You still need to disseminate an idea even in the form of a song.
GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)logosoco
(3,208 posts)But I am kind of an oddball with what I listen to. I am a middle aged white woman and I am not sure if I could get others like me to sing those!
Michael Franti is one of my favorites. I love "Hey Hey Hey". I thought that could be mainstream, but I don't think it did.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)below.
So it is out there - the question is how do we get it out to the people?
Codeine
(25,586 posts)It doesn't work like that now. We find the music we want. Opportunities to discover new bands, new songs, and even whole new genres is infinite and utterly democratized. Entire labels exist because obsessive music nerds like me seek out white dudes from New York playing afro-beat or 70s Peruvian funk band reissues.
The people have the music they want.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)not work.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)We swim in a sea of information all day. Music is superfluous to that end. The world is not what it once was, and music plays a different role for modern people.
I don't seek out music for a message -- I just want intelligent lyrics, a solid hook, and a non-mainstream sound. Others want a killer beat or a booming bassline or an explosive blast beat and sudden time changes.
Almost nobody wants their music to tell them that the answer is blowing in the wind or that there are four dead in o-hi-o.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)what is happening in the world thanks to each other.
But there is the worker who drives home from work listening to the radio all the way. Often that is all they do that has a message. They watch the idiot box and ignore news programs. They are liberals but not active ones like we are. Not too long ago my grandson's wife was angry and took it out on me. Her exact words were " you set out here with the news programs blaring all the time." What she meant was that I watch Big Ed, Chris Hayes, Rachel and Larry O week nights after the kids are in bed. The only way she ever knows anything is through that radio program on the way home.
Young teenagers are also often watching other things or playing games and listening to music. My 17 year old is one who knows more about what music tells him than what news says.
It does not matter which type of music but it does matter that we are still getting the message out there in some way.
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)I may have the name of it wrong, but there is a university radio program of it that has a neighboring position on the dial to Madison progressive FM, and sometimes the rap drifts over...
It may just be that old farts think protest music should sound like what was sung by Pete Seeger or Judy Collins
Codeine
(25,586 posts)telling THEM what was wrong with their protests?
"No jitterbug, no movement!"
"Scott Joplin, not Janice Joplin!"
former9thward
(32,029 posts)Hardly the music of social protest...
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)Is violence against women. I suggest looking into Common, BlackThought, The Roots, NAS, Public Enemy, Tribe Called Quest... Hip Hop is a multifaceted genre. Just like rock before it.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)Last edited Thu Dec 4, 2014, 01:21 PM - Edit history (1)
even some of our songs completely. The band had a democratic vote on it, and I lost, 3 to 1. I had written most of the lyrics did and did not want to change what we did, most of my lyrics were directly, or indirectly, political.
The producer was a shallow, money grubbing republican, and after he first heard the lyrics. he asked "What does this mean?".
I refused to rewrite anything, and the other band members had to do the writing. After a year and a half in the studio, the finished record sucked. The musicianship was flawless, the engineering and production was stellar, and the songs had no soul. The producer thought it was just peachy!
The band broke up shortly after.
Fuck the fucking music industry. The business of music is business.
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)Codeine
(25,586 posts)johnnyreb
(915 posts)He crafts fabulous socially-relevant music mixes that introduce artists I would never have heard of otherwise;
http://popdefectradio.blogspot.com/
Here's a recent outstanding one;
http://popdefectradio.blogspot.com/2014/06/spoken-word-remix.html
People need these! Burn to disc and pass them around.
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)aikoaiko
(34,173 posts)NSFW. And in case this is juried take the video as an expression of anger are bad policing and not an indictment of all police.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)Although I had previously been dismissive of rap and hip hop, I still remember how seeing Spike Lee's Do The Right Thing (where the song debuted) first opened my ears to the revolutionary artistic power and possibilities of rap and hip hop.
aikoaiko
(34,173 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)aikoaiko
(34,173 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)You can throw all the "trustifarian" jokes you want to, it was perfect
aikoaiko
(34,173 posts)I meant their verses were more subtle than NWA and PE.
It took me a while to listen more carefully.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Man. I need to dig that CD up again.
Very timely. This homegirl likes it.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)You might want to explore it. Even geezers sometimes like it.
randome
(34,845 posts)Don't fall into the trap of thinking we simply need to repeat what worked before.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You have to play the game to find out why you're playing the game. -Existenz[/center][/font][hr]
jwirr
(39,215 posts)the problems and unified protesters just like the phrase "hands up don't shoot" is doing. It also recruited people to the causes. No matter what the date is those are still issues that need to be addressed if we want people to get behind change. And it has to cross cultural lines in order to make a difference. That is because like it or not we need all kinds and ages of people to support us in making changes. So the songs are a good outreach tool.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)Everyone basically listened to the same top acts. People listened to radio stations who played an r&b song followed by a folk-rock song followed by a schmaltzy pop song. You could unify a movement with music because the music crossed demographic lines in a way it doesn't now.
These days people focus musical tastes much more closely. I don't listen to a radio station that plays music I like followed by music I dislike or even feel neutral about -- I no longer need to do that. My tastes (which run from 80s alternative to goth to black metal to modern alt-rock to Coltrane) are catered to much more directly in the Information Age.
As an example, when I was a kid in the 80s I heard lots of early hip-hop because media was limited and in order to see videos or listen to radio you took stuff that wasn't your bag along with that which was. But today I live in a world where I can honestly say I've never heard a single song by most of the biggest, most successful acts in music. I've never heard Jay-Z, for example. Not one song.
And the people who do listen to those acts have almost certainly never heard anything from the bands I enjoy. Why would anyone expect us to find a song to sing together? They don't like my shit and I don't like theirs. That's not what unifies us.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)issues you care about? Or isn't that important anymore?
Codeine
(25,586 posts)Every young person in America knows about Ferguson because they're tuned into that world. Social media spreads that stuff like wildfire. I follow some Instagrammers in Mexico and they're using that service to ignite the protest movement there with admirable efficiency.
librechik
(30,674 posts)that white folks don't listen to.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Meaning, "rap that black people listen to", as far as I can tell.
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)It's just not folk rock.
From the 90s to the early 00s, there was Rage Against The Machine
In the early 00s, you had great stuff from System Of A Down
Green Day during the Bush years
But if you really like the folk rock genre, Tom Morello from Rage Against The Machine has his solo project The Nightwatchmen
All of this music has been very popular over the last 20 years. Most of it Grammy winning. All of it received considerable airplay on MTV as well. Not to mention all the great work in hip hop over the last 30 years:
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Honestly I'd take 1991 vs. 1968 as a protest year any day.
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)Nas, & Damien Marley have also done some great stuff.
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)Was an AWESOME album. I think Damien has far surpassed his father. NAS is great, and so is Common.
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)my head at people who say hip/hop & rap is nothing but talk about objectifying women. The song Patience by Nas & Damien Marley is great, I play it whenever I need to get my mind right.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I love him to death!!
Response to Dr Hobbitstein (Reply #38)
azmom This message was self-deleted by its author.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Please.
True Blue Door
(2,969 posts)They are purely cerebral, and miss the kind of passionate energy that drives forward.
There has been no Neo-Romantic artistic portraits made of these movements yet. Nothing like...
fadedrose
(10,044 posts)may have been overused, but still very poignant and relevant - maybe with a change in lyrics.
But it's a "black" song. We really need one that combines whites who have never had to "overcome" in the same way as blacks, and a new melody.
Something like "That's What Friends Are For," that sort of brought all races and religions together, but in a new way that expresses that whites are fed up with the treatment of other races, as well as the people of other races.
I am fed up but can't write music....
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Sorry, I don't mean to keep beating up on you over this, but this issue is a sore point.
azmom
(5,208 posts)Any from 2000 and on. I'd love to listen to some new stuff.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Hard to run that up the flag pole and call it headlining. What are you, Bowser's agent?
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Love, Peace, Music and there was a tiny list of lots of names. Sha Na Na were not the headliners of Woodstock, dude. They played, but so did 30 other acts. In reality, it was Woodstock that made Sha Na Na into major act. It was their big break. Prior to that show and the film there were not well known at all. They had been opening act at clubs for several of the major Woodstock bands, which is how they got booked there. They also opened for Frank Zappa. Think about that show.
I come at this from a different and very fortunate place. Upthread you are going off about 1991 artists and I'm a guy who has been in a room with more then one of those very people and an actual Woodstock top slot artist and watched them fall all over each other and remix blowing in the wind. Not sure about all of this 'my music, your music' trip. I think it is toxic. There is music I adore that was made prior to my existence, much of it. Other music I love was made last week.
azmom
(5,208 posts)I enjoy the old stuff and the new. When the music is good it withstands the test of time.
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)Why in the world would those be our protest songs, that's not our music?
brooklynite
(94,613 posts)Catherine Vincent
(34,490 posts)This isn't new but it'll work:
"They Don't Care About Us"
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/michaeljackson/theydontcareaboutus.html
Skin head, dead head
Everybody gone bad
Situation, aggravation
Everybody allegation
In the suite, on the news
Everybody dog food
Bang bang, shot dead
Everybody's gone mad
All I wanna say is that
They don't really care about us
All I wanna say is that
They don't really care about us
Beat me, hate me
You can never break me
Will me, thrill me
You can never kill me
Jew me, sue me
Everybody do me
Kick me, kike me
Don't you black or white me
All I wanna say is that
They don't really care about us
All I wanna say is that
They don't really care about us
Tell me what has become of my life
I have a wife and two children who love me
I am the victim of police brutality, now
I'm tired of bein' the victim of hate
You're rapin' me off my pride
Oh, for God's sake
I look to heaven to fulfill its prophecy...
Set me free
Skin head, dead head
Everybody gone bad
Trepidation, speculation
Everybody allegation
In the suite, on the news
Everybody dog food
Black male, black mail
Throw your brother in jail
All I wanna say is that
They don't really care about us
All I wanna say is that
They don't really care about us
Tell me what has become of my rights
Am I invisible because you ignore me?
Your proclamation promised me free liberty, now
I'm tired of bein' the victim of shame
They're throwing me in a class with a bad name
I can't believe this is the land from which I came
You know I really do hate to say it
The government don't wanna see
But if Roosevelt was livin'
He wouldn't let this be, no, no
Skin head, dead head
Everybody gone bad
Situation, speculation
Everybody litigation
Beat me, bash me
You can never trash me
Hit me, kick me
You can never get me
All I wanna say is that
They don't really care about us
All I wanna say is that
They don't really care about us
Some things in life they just don't wanna see
But if Martin Luther was livin'
He wouldn't let this be, no, no
Skin head, dead head
Everybody gone bad
Situation, segregation
Everybody allegation
In the suite, on the news
Everybody dog food
Kick me, kike me
Don't you wrong or right me
All I wanna say is that
They don't really care about us
All I wanna say is that
They don't really care about us
All I wanna say is that
They don't really care about us
All I wanna say is that
They don't really care about
All I wanna say is that
they don't really care about
All I wanna say is that
They don't really care about us
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)nt
Ink Man
(171 posts)Stand with Hillary!
jwirr
(39,215 posts)Edited to say that rap is somewhat and answer but there are a lot of problems with the genre. I will probably get tombstoned for this but I see the problem with rap being their attitude toward women, hard to understand and name calling. Since my grandson is a rapper I get tombstoned by him all the time.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)If it's too loud, you're too old, bro.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)in its name, it's not music man!
Codeine
(25,586 posts)This reminds me of a conversation I had on Thanksgiving. We were discussing current alternative music and someone chimed in that they avoided modern alternative because it lacked hooks. "I mean, I like Wilco, but they have no hooks." Dude, Wilco is alternative from friggin 20 years ago! People think music immediately stops changing when they drift away from it.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)since I baby sit for 3 of my 11 great grandchildren I am much more tuned into cartoons. I hate a lot of them also. But it is their choices so I go along with it. I get the feeling you think we should all forget everything we enjoyed and grab onto TODAY? Sorry I do not find much to grab onto today. It all seems to be falling apart.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)I just think it's weird that we should be expected to find relevance in the same cultural constructs that people did nearly half a century before, and if we don't then we're not protesting right. Those kids back then didn't harken back to the media of the 20s for their lessons, did they?
Hooks are just that -- bits of a song that catch you and hook you in. Think of the beginning of CSN&Y's "Ohio", the catchy, jangly bit that drives the song along. That's a hook, and a damned good one. A hook can be a bass line that grabs you like in Queen's "Under Pressure" or a drum pattern like New Order's "Blue Monday" or a big guitar riff like "Iron Man."
jwirr
(39,215 posts)were both singers from the Great Depression era. We used what was still relevant to fit the needs of the time. But you are also correct that the specialization in music has put a damper on using it to unify any group that is protesting.
As to the way the kids in Ferguson MO and other cities are protesting I could not be prouder. I only wish that all of us not matter our color would have started protesting a long time ago. But it needed a trigger to start it and that happened with Michael Brown.
Fortunately we do have the internet and a few programs on tv that actually tell us what is going on.
IDemo
(16,926 posts)But no, I'm not hearing a lot of protest sentiments coming from any of those.
Hekate
(90,721 posts)Music pulls people in and binds them together. The greats from our youth sang to their last breath, they believed that so strongly. The ones still alive are still singing, but they are now old....
All during the protests against Bush/Cheney I kept listening for the younger generation to write a new anthem, a new satire, a new theme song-- but it never appeared.
We need music to pour from our throats, we really do.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)It's there. find any decent hip-hop station. Even the commercially successful hip-hop is a lot more "message-ish" than rock was back in its heyday.
Hekate
(90,721 posts)That's one of the functions of folk (not rock, folk came first) music -- anyone can join in, from a small group to a mass march. I don't get that vibe from hip-hop or rap, because they seem specialized, as in a soloist or small backup group puts on a show and the masses watch. It's not participatory, afaik.
I went to Washington two or three times and to weekly marches and rallies in my home town, but never saw or participated in a protest hip-hop. Some of us sang the oldies, all of us chanted, but though I listened hard, I didn't hear something new that caught fire like We Shall Overcome, or Blowin' in the Wind.
I'm a musical person; I was disappointed.
On edit: scanning some of the comments here, I almost deleted this post. "Boomer BS" indeed, you young whippersnappers. Get off my lawn, but first post links and lyrics to something we can all sing.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)I play old-time banjo and mandolin, personally, but I love a lot of the music being made today
Codeine
(25,586 posts)we keep being told that a group singalong is somehow essential to the cause. I'm frankly mystified by this view. I don't want to sing folk songs with people. Nobody I know wants to do that. Music has become so varied and fractured that no crowd of young protestors are ever going to drawn to the same song, and why should they?
Is a crowd chanting "Hands up, don't shoot" or "I can't breathe!" in unison somehow LESS united than a crowd singing a song?
Did old people tell YOU how to enliven and unite a protest? Did they decry a lack of bathtub gin and flapper dresses?
wyldwolf
(43,867 posts)There are often posts on DU about how dreadful today's music is and how 'you' never listen to it. If that describes you and you think there are no protest music lately, how would you know?
The 10 Most Powerful Protest Songs of the 21st Century
http://flavorwire.com/143568/the-10-most-powerful-protest-songs-of-the-21st-century/
The Protest Movement | The 10 Best Political Protest Songs of the 2000s
http://hubpages.com/hub/The-Protest-Movement-The-10-Best-Protest-Songs-of-the-2000s
The best protest songs of the decade
http://www.peoplesworld.org/the-best-protest-songs-of-the-decade/
And, yes, I've heard many of these on rock, hip hop and pop radio. And even before I googled, I immediately recalled these:
John Mayer 'Waiting for the World To Change.'
Black Eyed Peas 'Where is the Love.'
Macklemore's 'Same Love.'
logosoco
(3,208 posts)I have those last three on my iPod already.
My kids will appreciate you as well. They like showing me new stuff, but I am still just mom!
Codeine
(25,586 posts)Oy vey.
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)wyldwolf
(43,867 posts)dilby
(2,273 posts)azmom
(5,208 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Try Nas.
https://m.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)otohara
(24,135 posts)the environment, charities like Conscious Alliance - Art That Feeds, recycling
Unfortunately they shy away from endorsing politicians because that would include aligning yourself with a party
and most are registered as unaffiliated.
Politicians don't reach out to them - most are liberal and vote for Dems, but they are an apathetic and feel
the system is fucked - no politician will fix.
Grrrr...
But don't think they aren't writing songs about our problems, you just aren't hearing them because they aren't
on the radio, there is no record business.
I know, I have a son who works for a band trying to make change and they now realize voting is necessary, but
their fans are a skeptical bunch.