Uh guys---if you are having consensual sex with a woman and she passes out---- STOP!

[trumad]

The consent stops right there.

Why?

Because she's fucking passed out and can't consent to what you are doing to her.

And--- because if you don't---- you're a sick demented piece of shit!

nuff said!

[Rex]

1. Better yet, WHY would you want to have sex with someone that is passed out!?

That is fucking creepy shit right there...imho.

[dhill926]

7. ask Bill Cosby...

and yep, beyond creepy...

[Rex]

28. Ugh...I would rather not, if all that is true he is

totally disgusting and should answer for his crimes in a courtroom.

[madokie]

2. Never had that happen to me

I'm not sure my ego could have stood it if it had LOL

[MineralMan]

3. Uh, if she's drunk enough to pass out, there was no consent in the first place.

There. That's simple. Don't have sex with people who are falling-down drunk.

[Dont call me Shirley]

4. +10,000,000

[marions ghost]

6. But

that's more OK than if you rape them while they're conscious, right? (seems to be the logic)

[MineralMan]

11. I'm sick of it, and the excuses men make.

If someone's drunk enough to almost be ready to pass out, it's time to take that person home and make sure the person is safe and can sleep off the over-consumption. In fact, it's best if you make sure someone is there to watch the person to make sure they don't fall and hurt themselves.

People who are intoxicated to that degree cannot give consent. They might not fight you off, but that's not consent. As a man, if a woman I'm around gets too drunk, I will make sure she's safe and protected from assholes, even if she's not someone I know well. In my youth, there were often parties in the house I lived in. Often, people would get way drunker than they should. I always made sure that they were safe, comfortable, covered up with a blanket, and had something to barf in. I was never drunk enough not to do that in my house.

Nobody was ever going to get sexually assaulted if I was around. I'd never be able to forgive myself if that happened where I lived. People who take advantage of intoxicated women are rapists. I dislike rapists very much. I think they should be in prison.

[ChosenUnWisely]

19. I am sick of BS strawmen exactly like this.

[MineralMan]

22. Yeah? Well, whatever you say.

I won't be inviting you to any of my parties, then. You'll have to go somewhere else.

[yuiyoshida]

69. psssst...

Can I come to your party? Its been really boring around here lately

[MineralMan]

73. I'm afraid I stopped having that kind of party decades ago.

These days, it's all cocktails, dinner, wine and conversation. I'm really old and boring these days. My youth has fled, and with it my wild party spirit.

[yuiyoshida]

75. awww..I could have brought the

balloons!

[MineralMan]

76. Maybe I'll reconsider, then...

[Pacifist Patriot]

125. Sounds like my kind of guy and my kind of parties.

Thank you for saying this. I can't believe anyone would raise an objection to anything you've said. At least not any decent human being.

[ChosenUnWisely]

172. and why would I even want to come to your party?

Mighty presumptuous of you.

[MineralMan]

174. I don't know. They were always for people I knew.

But that was a long time ago. My parties now would bore you, I'm sure.

[ChosenUnWisely]

203. Most likely,but don't take it personnel but I find most people, boring and uninteresting

so even if I were invited the odds of me attending are slim to none.

[uppityperson]

106. wtf?

[cyberswede]

118. Somebody doesn't know what "straw man" means, apparently. nt

[samsingh]

149. i agree with you. it sounds like a lot of hate

[cyberswede]

150. What the...

what?

What, exactly, is hateful in MM's post about defending people from being taken advantage of while passed out?

[yardwork]

182. Where do you read a lot of hate in MM's post?

His post sounds sensible and reasonable to me.

[yardwork]

181. How is this is a strawman?

[Ykcutnek]

36. One party might not give consent and the other party might not realize what they're doing.

Alcohol puts people in horrible situations.

A good rule of thumb is to be cautious about who you get drunk around.

[MineralMan]

42. I'm long past the time when I ever drink that much.

I got over that in my early 20s. But, if I was really drunk, sex wasn't really on my mind in the first place. In most of these cases, one of the people is not drunk enough not to know exactly what was happening. Most often, that's intentional, really, especially in the college age group.

Getting a woman drunk so you can have sex with her is a pretty poor substitute for courtship, it seems to me. It's a trick played by stupid people who lack social skills and any conscience. I have no tolerance for people like that. I'm a party pooper that way. I can't count the number of times I've said to some asshole like that, "Hey! Leave her alone. She's way too drunk. Just back off and get the hell out of here!"

[yardwork]

183. The idea that people rape because they are too drunk to know better is ridiculous.

That's a myth designed to protect the rapists, who are usually very careful to be a lot less drunk than the people around them, especially their victims.

[Jesus Malverde]

159. So obvious it hurts.

Nailed it.

[madinmaryland]

186. What if both parties are falling down drunk? Then what?

[cyberswede]

190. Well, if you're functional enough to fuck somebody...

you should be functional enough to notice if they pass out.

[madinmaryland]

191. If both parties are well over 3-4 times the "legal" limit of alcohol, then what?

One's passed out and the other doesn't know that the other is passed out.

Alcohol. A hell of a drug.

[cyberswede]

193. While I question the likelihood,

I guess if the fucker really didn't notice the fuckee was passed out, then that person would be fucking someone without their consent, ergo rape.

If a driver who is 3-4 times the legal limit didn't notice they ran over a pedestrian & kept driving, then what? Still a hit & run; still not an excuse.

[trumad]

211. Wow!

First you get on me about posting this Op...and now you're spouting this shit.

This is a pattern pal.

[Yupster]

197. Then it's the man's fault if anything goes wrong

She was too drunk to give consent.

[Tace]

187. Had That Happen About 20 Years Ago

I picked up a lady at a bar in NYC, walked her home, and as we were making out sitting in the stairway outside her apartment, she fell asleep. Of course, I walked her to her door and said good night. We're still friends. --Tace

[Nye Bevan]

5. I would go further and say that this applies to all genders.

A Seattle woman is accused of raping her neighbor as he slept after a party.

The victim shoved the 240-pound woman, later identified as 26-year-old Chantae Gilman, off of him when he woke up to her having sex with him, according to the Seattle P-I.

She apparently broke into the 31-year-old's apartment on June 16, 2013 after a birthday party. It wasn’t until recently that a sample of DNA taken from the victim was analyzed.

http://m.nydailynews.com/news/crime/seattle-woman-raped-sleeping-man-police-article-1.1938146#bmb=1

[cyberswede]

30. And to people of all sizes

WTH does her size have to do with the story? (directed at the article's author, not at the poster)

[SidDithers]

8. But that's not rape...

according to the Julian Assange defenders.

Sid

[msanthrope]

25. Nor is refusing to use a condom...when consent was clearly predicated on using a condom. nt

[ChosenUnWisely]

9. What if that is what they are both into?

Lots of people in to all kinds of adult things who are you or anyone else for that matter to determine what is OK between 2 consenting adults.

[shenmue]

10. Rape is a crime

It is not a matter of what anyone is "into."

[ChosenUnWisely]

15. If 2 adults are into it and consent is given it is not rape no matter what you say.

Lots of folks are into Necrophilia and BDSM and Watersports and Scat and all sorts of activities that some call deviant sex.

What 2 adult mutually agree to do is nobody's business but the 2 people involved.

[Journeyman]

72. I'm having difficulty figuring out how two adults consent to necrophilia. . .

no matter how the question's asked, one of them's going to give a cold shoulder to the idea.

[cwydro]

98. Wow, thanks for your post.

I was so speechless I could not formulate one.

[LanternWaste]

105. How does a corpse consent? Please, do tell...

How does a corpse consent? Please, do tell...

[Yupster]

198. A little known clause

In the other than standard will?

[uppityperson]

107. How do 2 people mutually agree to Necrophilia?

[Scootaloo]

201. "Lots of folks are into necrophilia"

Well... your screen name seems to be apt.

[My Good Babushka]

13. Partners may choose to pretend

that one of them is unresponsive, but if one of them is actually unresponsive that is rape, and quite possibly, a medical emergency.

[MineralMan]

14. People who are drunk enough to pass out are not "into" anything.

They're incapable of consent. They're under the influence of a drug and cannot make rational decisions. Period.

[ChosenUnWisely]

16. Bunk , say I me and my partner are into necrophilia it is what we are into, who the F are YOU to

tell me what I can and cannot do with another consenting adult.

[MineralMan]

20. Is your partner passing-out drunk when this occurs?

If so, then I am telling you that your partner is incapable of consenting. That's who I am. I don't care what your kink might be. It's one thing to pretend to be dead or whatever. It's quite another if that person is intoxicated to the point of passing out. Sorry.

If you and your partner are into necrophilia, that's OK with me, as long as both of you are capable of consent. It's not my kink, though. I insist on enthusiastic, conscious consent.

[1StrongBlackMan]

61. I see a rape accusation in someone's future ...

If one (or more) hasn't already been filed.

sighhhh ...

[MineralMan]

63. Actually, I'm betting it's just speculation to make an argument, really.

People do that quite often. That's my guess here. It's not very pretty, though.

[1StrongBlackMan]

79. One can only hope. n/t

[MineralMan]

84. I don't like to think otherwise.

Too disturbing, really.

[el_bryanto]

23. I admit to not knowing everything - but isn't necrophilia sex with the dead?

Does it also include being passed out?

Bryant

[trumad]

32. DuZY of the year!

and next year as well!!!!!!

[MineralMan]

49. Yup. It's also a weird fantasy roleplaying kink some people are into.

Last edited Thu Jan 29, 2015, 05:31 PM - Edit history (1)

It's one of the weirdest, rarest kinks of all, and one that is very disturbing to most people. Taken to its extreme, it's borderline sociopathy. That there are willing partners for that kink has always puzzled me, and I don't know how such people find each other, frankly.

[el_bryanto]

58. It does seem very odd.

At any rate, I agree that consent in that situation is near impossible if not completely impossible.

Bryant

[ChosenUnWisely]

60. Craigslist is one of the more common places the freaks can find each other

How does that song go.,..........The freaks come out at night!

Most folks are boring and uninteresting, the freaks are fun and interesting!

Get out more, it is a big world with lots of freaks running around!

[MineralMan]

65. Nah. I'll leave the freaks to other freaks.

I never use that part of Craigslist. I'm just a boring, kink-free kinda guy. But knock yourself out, if that's your deal.

[riqster]

81. "Kinky is using a feather"...

"Perversion is using the whole chicken."

[MineralMan]

83. People do lots of things with each other.

Kink is not for me, but it is for some people. I leave them to it.

[dixiegrrrrl]

86. uhh..Does "willing partners" and "how people find each other"

apply to cases of necrophilia???

by definition, one of them is ded...
or, as Monty Python so eloquently put it:

passed on!
is no more!
ceased to be!
'expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
Is a stiff!
Bereft of life,
rests in peace!
pushing up the daisies!
kicked the bucket,
shuffled off 'is mortal coil,
run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!!

[MineralMan]

92. As a fantasy fetish kink, it involves one partner playing the

role of a corpse. It's one of the rarest fetishes out there, so it's interesting that someone referred to it in this thread. In some cases, it involves props like coffins and mortuary furniture. I read about it when studying abnormal psychology long ago. I don't recommend Googling it or visiting fetish sites that discuss it.

It's out there, and there are people who have this fetish. Very, very weird and disturbing. I don't know how people find each other, frankly, but then, I'm not part of the fetish community, so I wouldn't know.

Real necrophilia exists, too, but that's a completely different subject, and ventures into territory that doesn't interest me at all.

[dixiegrrrrl]

108. ahh..I misunderstood your context.

and learned more than I needed to about certain fetishes, to boot.

[MineralMan]

116. Sexual fetishes can be pretty unsettling.

I read up on them in the past, and rarely am interested in them these days, unless the subject comes up in another context. The internet has brought a lot of information with it that's very accessible, but also a lot that can be quite disturbing to people who don't already know something about the various things people are into.

I suppose that, with 7+ billion people on this planet, almost anything has adherents.

[phil89]

160. Luckily, the world doesn't

hinge on what disturbs you. It's not the 1600's anymore.

[MineralMan]

175. You have no idea what disturbs me.

And that's just fine with me.

[uppityperson]

115. Huh, I learn new things on DU all the time. I thought it was all "real".

[MineralMan]

119. Depends on the definition of "real," I guess.

Weirdness is real enough, even if it is just fantasy roleplaying. Too weird for me to look into very much.

[uppityperson]

129. Roleplaying, meh. Not for me but meh. But for real? Way illegal.

[MineralMan]

133. I should have clarified my post. When I referred to

necrophilia, I was writing to someone who was talking about a fantasy fetish roleplaying thing where necrophilia is simulated. I edited the initial post in the subthread to reflect that.

Real necrophilia is a serious psychological aberration and is illegal, as you've said. I suppose there are some in the fetish roleplaying community who are borderline. I don't know, really, and know nobody who is into that sort of thing. I understand that there is porn of it, though, as there is for every fetish.

[uppityperson]

137. Well....

[MineralMan]

139. Well, ick! Just ick.

There's some strange stuff passing as entertainment these days, isn't there?

[uppityperson]

141. Oh yeah. That one includes stalking and controlling someone with the inability to control

your own desires for the much older, wiser, experienced stalker. ick ick ick.

[Dorian Gray]

206. If it's role playing

I would call it role playing, not necrophilia.

Maybe that's just semantics. But I'd let that poster's words stand for themselves. If he and his partner are into necrophilia, I'd think they were into screwing dead people. If they are into role playing... then someone can consent, yes.

[phil89]

158. Please stop misusing clinical labels like sociopathy

it's utterly ridiculous. You're just making these claims and latching on to words like sociopathy that have actual meanings. It's stigma inducing and inaccurate. Feel free to cite evidence to back up your claim that fantasy roleplaying taken to an extreme is borderline sociopathy. It's just mindless labeling.

[MineralMan]

178. Thanks for your advice.

I think I won't take it, though.

[NuclearDem]

50. Hey baby, do you bbBbBrrRRrraaaAiiInnNnZzz here often?

[Dorian Gray]

71. If your partner

is dead, he or she is not consenting to anything.

Stupid example.

[Fla Dem]

78. So you and your partner get off having sex with a corpse? A fresh one or decaying corpse?

If that's the case you are one sick puppy.

[Lochloosa]

85. Necrophilia - Just so we understand what we're talking about here.....

Necrophilia, also called thanatophilia or necrolagnia, is the sexual attraction to corpses. It is classified as a paraphilia by the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of the American Psychiatric Association. The word is derived from the Greek words: ????ό? (nekros; "dead&quot and ???ί? (philia; "love&quot . The term was coined by the Belgian alienist Joseph Guislain, who first used it in a lecture in 1850.[1]

[MineralMan]

134. The poster is actually referring to a fantasy fetish that involves

simulated necrophilia. I understood that in replying to him, but neglected to make that clear in my replies. He's not talking about actual necrophilia, I'm sure.

[uppityperson]

110. how does a corpse give consent?

[Glassunion]

168. Do they have a will?

That would be an awkward moment for the executor to have to read those named in the will.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

169. A will?

[kcr]

143. If you randomly change the definition of words to mean whatever you think they should mean

Rather than what they actually mean, then discussion gets pretty difficult. Necrophelia is the raping of corpses. If that is what you and your girlfriend do, then you are criminals, however you come across the bodies.

[CreekDog]

147. if they are actually unconscious, they can't consent

and if they are actually dead, it's not 2 adults making a decision, it's 1.

no consent there either.

i suspect this is just run of the mill derailing of the thread because nobody in real life would defend this kind of thing.

[smirkymonkey]

152. So your partner is dead? And they consented as a dead person to necrophelia?

You have a very interesting.um..., "love" life.

[Hekate]

194. Man are you ever a charmer, pretending to not understand what MM is talking about.

He's talking about ethical behavior and you are pretending that the ethic of looking out for another human being is a straw man. I think straw man does not mean what you think it does.

Also I don't think necrophilia means what you think it does. It means sex with a corpse, an actual dead body. In other words, no longer consenting to anything iin any meaning of the word.

You and your partner can play all the games you want, but stop messing about with the English language.

[MannyGoldstein]

208. Either the sickest post ever, or

the most brilliant prank post ever. If the latter, it should have a wee bit more to clarify.

[phil89]

162. If the partners agree ahead of time

that it's ok, they have given consent. Ever have a surgery where you were anesthetized? Did you give consent to the surgeon to do things to your body? How could you give consent if you're passed out?

[cyberswede]

173. How far ahead of time?

"Honey, I'm gonna get shitfaced tonight - if I pass out in the middle of coitus, feel free to finish up."

"Sweetie...if I ever pass out in the middle of making whoopee, don't let that stop you from gettin' it done."

"Fuckmebabee...I'm so wasted!!! Doomeenow....zzz...plonk...zzz..."



Seriously...who would even *want* to fuck a sleeping person?

[MineralMan]

177. Let's see...how would that work?

"So, I'm going to get you so drunk that you may pass out. If that happens, maybe I'll have sex with you. Is that OK?"

Is that the kind of consent you mean? Sounds bogus to me.

[Brickbat]

17. What if men didn't ask questions that made them look like utter creeps by trying to figure out how

close they can get to rape without actually raping?

[msanthrope]

29. Then there would be no rape apologia threads on DU. Where's the fun in that? nt

[Rex]

34. Then it's not rape, you have to go by the definition of rape.

Consent means it is not rape. Two consenting adults are having sex...kinky sex...whatever you want to call it.

[trumad]

52. Passed out---no consent---correct?

[Rex]

56. I don't see how it is possible for an unconscious person to consent to anything.

If you or anyone else knows of a way, I am all ears.

[cyberswede]

35. How does a passed-out person consent?

They don't.

[Fla Dem]

66. Seriously, you personally think it's ok to continue to have intercourse with a woman after she has

passed out? That's kind of sick, immoral, inconsiderate and downright criminal.

[Starry Messenger]

153. If there is mutual consent, it isn't rape.

Rape is a crime, not a sex position.

[yardwork]

184. Unconscious people can't consent. /nt

[joeglow3]

12. Agreed. I will add that a female did this to a male friend of mine in college

[MineralMan]

18. Women are much more frequently victims of this, though.

Instances of such things happening to men are rare, indeed, particularly if they are drunk enough to pass out. It happens to women, though, quite frequently, that they are raped while drunk. So much more frequently that cases like the one you describe are more often exaggerated than real.

[trumad]

24. It never fails with a thread like this that some will come in...

with the it happens to guys as well comments. Well yeah---sure.... but not even close to the amount it happens to women. Not even close.

[MineralMan]

27. That's certainly true.

They're pretty transparent when they do that, too.

[trumad]

31. And it's the same characters.

It's weird.

[MineralMan]

33. Not so weird, really.

More than that, I won't say.

[trumad]

126. Uhh huh

[LanternWaste]

109. Not that your experience don't count, but rather some people simply may not believe you.

Not that your experience don't count, but rather some people, after having read posts of yours in discussions such as this one, simply might not believe you to be truthful or accurate by any stretch...

[joeglow3]

112. Again, you would never call a woman a liar in the same role

I think you need to beef up on what victim blaming is. It is pretty fucked up for anyone to share a story of being raped and then you call them a liar. That takes a special kind of asshole.

[LanternWaste]

123. It also takes a special kind of asshole to pretend simply to make a point...

It also takes a special kind of asshole to pretend simply to make a point...

There are plenty of people after having read enough of their creative little posts, both male and female, I immediately presume are being disingenuous regardless of what tall tale they're telling on any particular day.

[cyberswede]

113. I think the point is that whenever a post about women victims appears...

there's always someone who chimes in about how it happens to guys, too.

Every time. AFAIK, nobody has ever claimed that it doesn't happen to men, but this is a thread about women victims. WHy not start your own thread about male victims?

Do you pop into threads about Michael Brown or Eric Garner and post about all the instances of police killing unarmed white people?

[joeglow3]

120. The point is NO ONE should have sex with someone passed out

It can be phrased that way and accomplish the same goal. To exclude a group of victims and then have the fucking gall to mock them when they post their experiences is so far beyond asshole. But, you and I both know it will not only be tolerated, it will be cheered on by many here.

[cyberswede]

136. Threads addressing certain aspects of topics are posted all the time.

Not every post can cover every variable about every topic.

The OP can phrase his OP any way he wants...and since women are the victims of this particular type of rape far more frequently than men are, it's a perfectly valid topic for discussion. Not mentioning men as victims is hardly "excluding" them.

If I post a thread about how the holocaust** victimized millions of jews, I'm not "excluding" the other people who were also victims of the holocaust - I'm just choosing to discuss one aspect of the topic.

(**and this being DU, before anyone says anything: no, I'm not equating rape with the holocaust; it's an analogy)

[cyberswede]

146. It depends...

It's possible your motives were suspect to that person.

I'm sorry you're blocked from this thread, but you might learn why your post was seen as a derailing tactic by reading this:

FAQ: What’s wrong with saying that things happen to men, too?
Posted by tekanji on October 18, 2007 in clarifying-concepts, FAQ, FWW, masculinity, netiquette, privilege

Short answer: Nothing in and of itself. The problem occurs when conversations about women can’t happen on unmoderated blogs without someone showing up and saying, “but [x] happens to men, too!” (also known as a “Patriarchy Hurts Men, Too” or PHMT argument, or a “What About The Mens?” or WATM argument). When this happens, it becomes disruptive of the discussion that’s trying to happen, and has the effect (intended or otherwise) of silencing women’s voices on important issues such as rape and reproductive rights.

https://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2007/10/18/phmt-argument/

[Texasgal]

189. Well DUH!

Who is advocating sex with anyone man or woman while passed out drunk?

Let me answer that for you. NOBODY.

No one here agrees with anyone being used for sex without consent. Period.

[1StrongBlackMan]

64. Penthouse forum material ...

"I never believed it would happen to me; but, 2 years ago, I attended a party, and you'll never guess what happened to me ..."

[MineralMan]

68. Now, that's just speculation, see.

I believe everything anyone tells me on DU. Really...

[joeglow3]

99. You are fucking amazing.

I have told a story here before of how a girl has sex with me on college when I was completely hammered. There was no way I could give consent and would never have done so.

It cost me my girlfriend because society says it is most likely exaggerated, I had to have liked it and it doesn't happen to men. I struggled with it for a long time and shitty posts like yours contribute to it.

The sad thing is There is no way you would post this if a woman went through exactly what I did, but you feel arrogantly justified to say it to me.

[MineralMan]

179. Thanks, but I'm not really amazing.

You're too kind.

[joeglow3]

95. And like I said above, shitty responses like this contribute to lack of reporting.

[1StrongBlackMan]

161. Yeah ... Okay. n/t

[joeglow3]

94. Except I am the one who walked in on it

His fraternity had a party in college off campus. A bus brought everyone home and both he and his date were plowed. 8 guys shared a sleeping room and 2 had a study room. Him and his twin brother shared a study room, so we took him there so that we could check up on him.

When I returned 15 minutes later to check up on him, I walked in on his date completely naked, giving him a hand job and getting ready to climb up on him. He was completely passed out and had no clue what was going on.

But people wonder why all people struggle to report rapes. It is because assholes say shit like "it was most likely exaggerated."

[uppityperson]

117. It doesn't matter what the genders or sexual orientations are. Passed out people can not give

consent.

It happened to me in college. Yes, I was stupid enough to get passing out drunk and woke later with it obvious what had happened.

[joeglow3]

127. Exactly. It is a good message to share with all.

That was my only point and I am not stuck with people attacking me and calling me a liar when I shared my personal experience.

Now, I am not shocked because I have gotten the same response every time I have shared what happened to me here. Just extremely disappointed with DU.

[mythology]

26. I would assume if she passed out that there was something wrong

and getting her help would be the proper next step. If she's drunk enough that she passed out, I would be concerned about alcohol poisoning, and if she otherwise just passed out, I would think there's some sort of medical condition.

[unrepentant progress]

38. Exactly

The OP is nonsensical as stated.

[trumad]

45. Explain?

It happens all the time. Yes?

[unrepentant progress]

53. Women pass out unconscious while having sex with you all the time?

Note to self: Never, ever date trumad.

[trumad]

97. wow...

That's what you get from this.

[LanternWaste]

111. you're under the half-witted impression a person chooses the moment when they wish to pass out?

Hence, you're under the half-witted impression a person chooses the moment when they wish to pass out?

[Dawgs]

37. Uh, why would you feel you needed to post this here? n/t

[cyberswede]

39. Why not? nt

[trumad]

43. Why would you think I shouldn't?

[F4lconF16]

67. See upthread.

People here on DU aren't always the wonderful people we want them to be. When one of the first responses is someone trying to justify raping an unconscious person, yeah, I'd say it's still necessary. Try not to be ignorant of the rampant misogyny present in the world and on DU.

[trumad]

142. Bingo

I'm asked why post this type of stuff when there are examples by some in this thread that give me plenty of reason.

[Ykcutnek]

40. And if both parties are too out of it to know what's going on,

we shouldn't label it as rape.

[trumad]

41. So how do both parties do it if they are passed out?

[Ykcutnek]

44. If one is passed out and the other is too drunk to realize it...

It's not rape and no one should be punished for something they probably won't remember the next morning.

Just chalk it up to another night out on the town and a story to tell.

[trumad]

48. Wow!

Really?

[cyberswede]

62. How do you feel about drunk driving?

no one should be punished for something they probably won't remember the next morning

[F4lconF16]

70. So rape is okay if the rapist is really, really drunk?

Damn, I never thought I'd see that here.

[tblue37]

200. Two college football players were just recently convicted of rape after trying that

sort of defense.

[LanternWaste]

114. Take a deep breath, and realize the blatant idiocy of your statement.

You're rationalizing that sex with someone who did not consent, and has no knowledge of the act is not rape...

Take a deep breath, and realize the blatant idiocy of your statement.

[uppityperson]

124. "no one should be punished for something they probably won't remember the next morning"?

If I get really drunk and go murder someone, I shouldn't be punished?

[Rex]

219. Pretzel logic at it's finest.

[cyberswede]

47. Seriously...

if you're functional enough to be fucking somebody, you're functional enough to notice if they pass out. Sheesh.

[Rex]

54. IKR!? What the hell is up with these excuses!

I've been plastered-hammered more than once in my lifetime and even that fucked up, I could tell when someone was passed out!

Rex's how to tell if someone is passed out - they don't move or talk to you when you ask them questions. They appear to be sleeping. Picking up an arm and letting it go, results in it falling like a rock back onto the couch. There is a long line of drool running down the pillow. They fart, mumble something, then roll over. They seem to unconsciously scratch their butt and mumble something while rolling over. Loud noises are coming out of their mouth that shake the walls and scare the dog off.

ANY of these symptoms, could reveal a passed out person...which in some circles is also known as someone that is ASLEEP.

[uppityperson]

122. Technically you are wrong, it is rape for both. Sex without consent is rape, drunks can't give

consent. It does not mean both should be prosecuted but it is, indeed, rape, or sexual abuse.

[CatWoman]

46. you do and i'll kill ya

[trumad]

51. Then you better hire this guy.---oh wait!

[CatWoman]

164. is he going to come back from the dead?

[titaniumsalute]

55. Uh...yeah no shit.

I'm a guy and frankly being talked to in this rather insulting sweeping general statement to all guys on DU is insulting and rude. I'm 40. I've dated a lot like most other guys. I'm now married. It would be absolutely sick and demented to keep having sex with a passed out person. Period. And I doubt most guys on DU would do that anyway.

[cyberswede]

59. If you'd never do it, then the OP isn't addressing you.

[F4lconF16]

74. Look upthread--numerous DUers trying to figure out

as one poster so aptly put it, "how closely they can get to raping someone without actually raping them". There's at least one poster trying to justify having sex with an unconscious person, and another saying that rape isn't rape if the rapist is really drunk.

If this didn't apply to you, great. Ignore it. Or better yet, recognize the rampant misogyny here and in the rest of the world, and support the people that actually do give a crap about these issues.

[trumad]

82. what makes you think I'm talking to you?

[snooper2]

57. did you have to break something up at a party?

[upaloopa]

77. It may surprise you but most of us don't need you

to tell us how to act like decent human beings.

[trumad]

80. well good for you

Thanks for kicking my thread.

[upaloopa]

87. If that's how you see it

No one can teach you right?

[Rex]

90. What do you want to teach him?

Did you mean lecture?

[upaloopa]

100. A personal bug of mine is all the DUers who

feel the need to patronize a whole group of other DUers with a cause by acting as if the rest of us need to hear the message of the cause group.
Especially when they are a member of the group they are preaching to.

[Rex]

104. I see, thank you for the explanation.

[marions ghost]

130. Do you represent everyone reading DU?

I doubt it.

You choose to feel patronized. So don't pay attention if it doesn't concern you
If a big societal problem is somebody else's "cause" to you-- just leave it alone (or at least argue a point). Not just "wah wah, I am offended." Lame.

[upaloopa]

132. This isn't a communal think tank.

See the problem stems from the idea that to post here you have to be lead around by the nose by the popular posters.

[marions ghost]

135. Crap

& u know it.

[uppityperson]

138. click here to trash thread....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=trash&forum=1002&mid=6152633&rp=1002

[marions ghost]

145. Sure

just get rid of it. Enlightened.

[uppityperson]

148. I am always amused when people come into a thread to complain about wasting their time

or some such rather than simply just moving on. More amusing is when they continue to argue rather than moving on.

[marions ghost]

180. Right

so who is wasting their time?....

[trumad]

144. Wow!

I had no idea I had that power.

[trumad]

166. well if it's a personal fucking bug of yours. ..

Trash the fucking thread.

[trumad]

96. another kick...

Thanks

[marions ghost]

91. Don't take it so literally mkay

It's a message board where posters speak in general terms. The point is that everyone needs to know that this really is a problem. Many (intelligent) men and college administrators don't see it as a problem. People who know that someone is or has been raped while intoxicated often don't support the victim. Many people think that getting someone drunk and taking advantage is just how it's done.

We have a societal problem.

[Pacifist Patriot]

131. Hence the "if" in the post I would imagine.

So if it doesn't apply to you, why would you take offense?

[countryjake]

151. Does this bug you, too?

Identifying, calling out, and attempting to mobilize people in order to try to eliminate a serious problem that our nation is plagued with.

It would surprise me that any decent human being might be opposed to such a thing.

[Vattel]

88. I would have hoped that would be obvious.

[olddots]

89. it is a sad fact the both males and females

chose to use another persons body to masterbate with or without consent .

[F4lconF16]

157. Let's be clear:

It's not masturbation. It's rape. If there is no consent, it is rape. Period.

Now, would I agree there's a sad lack of communication and heavy suppression of healthy sexuality (both male and female) that leads to sex more akin to two entities masturbating than shared sexual congress? Absolutely.

But let's make sure to differentiate the two.

[randome]

93. Also:

"It's very dangerous to wave to people you don't know because what if they don't have hands? They'll think you're cocky."
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/mitch_hedberg.html#sxQ8p0t0bcGXqDsa.99
[hr][font color="blue"][center]The truth doesn’t always set you free.
Sometimes it builds a bigger cage around the one you’re already in.[/center][/font][hr]

[Half-Century Man]

103. Uh, first aid.

Figure out what happened and respond accordingly.

[Glassunion]

121. I once took 2 really drunk ladies home from a club once.

One of the ladies instantly fell asleep on my couch. So I put a throw blanket on top of her. The other puked on my cat... The cat thought she was attacking him. So he freaked out and ran all over the house leaving a streak of used Coronas and Jello shots down the hall, down the stairs, under the coffee table, then across the sofa (with sleeping lady on it) and love seat before I could lock him in the downstairs bathroom.

I spent the next hour holding her hair while she yak'ed. Then the 3 hours after that cleaning at least one solid nautical mile of dried puke off the walls, carpet, furniture, and sleeping lady's blanket. You know how hard it is to get puke out of the underside of a coffee table? The wood is not stained nor protected, so it soaks right into the wood.

I ended up falling asleep on the bathroom floor. The next morning was a bit awkward, especially for the cat.

[trumad]

128. You sir are a Gentleman.

[Classy2]

154. mmmm

quite a strange discussion here

please share articles or something.. never heard anyone doing that..

[cyberswede]

155. tick tock...

[uppityperson]

167. Yah think?

[trumad]

156. Happens all the time.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/education/os-ucf-suspended-student-sex-20150128-story.html

[arcane1]

163. Does the name Bill Cosby ring a bell?

[Glassunion]

165. I think that there is a difference with what the OP is stating and the Bill Cosby example.

The OP states consensual sex where one party passes out.

The Bill Cosby example is that there was no consent to begin with. In fact that Bill intended on raping them after he made them pass out.

[Rex]

220. Then you must not be from the planet Earth.

What planet do you come from? On Earth, we still have problems with men raping women.

[Puglover]

170. Is it just me?

Or is the thought of a partner that is so drunk that she or he is on verge of passing out just a bit of a deal breaker for any kind of sex at all.

But to the OP's point.

Obviously.

[ChosenUnWisely]

171. Well I agree but different strokes for different folks

There are all kinds of kinks and fetishes people are into and as long as it is between consenting adults of any number and or sex or orientation and does not involve kids or animals and does not disturb or hurt those not involved go for it, who am I to judge what others are into. It is not my business nor anyone else's.

Anything none consensual would most likely be rape or sexual assault of some kind.

[cyberswede]

176. Anything nonconsensual *IS* rape...no "most likely" about it. nt

[ChosenUnWisely]

202. Well I still believe in innocent until proven guilty a concept that seems to be lost here.

Guess I am a bit old fashioned that way.

[cyberswede]

207. LOL

Where in this thread has anyone said otherwise?

Pointing out that nonconsensual sex is rape is hardly accusing a specific person of a crime.

[ChosenUnWisely]

209. Few things are black and white in life. You best hope for someone like me sitting on your jury if

are every accused of anything.

[cyberswede]

212. I see. You can't show me where anyone in this thread eschews "innocent until proven guilty"

I didn't think so.

And where exactly is the gray area when someone is having sex with a passed out person?

[ChosenUnWisely]

213. Do you know the situation with the people involved?

It very well could be what they both consent too it ahead of time, it is what they enjoy together, yet you want to charge right off and call someone a rapist when in reality it was all consensual.

[cyberswede]

214. Uh huh. It's not clear to me how someone who is passed out can "enjoy" anything

You seem to be very invested in the notion that someone fucking a passed out person is ok, for whatever reason.

See also: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026152633#post17

[ChosenUnWisely]

215. Believe it or not people are into all kinds of kink

and one of them is people doing each other while they are asleep.

You may not like it or understand it but people can and do consent to this.

[cyberswede]

216. Consenting to have sex while one partner is asleep isn't what the OP is talking about

...but I'm gonna stop kicking this thread now; it's become absurd.

[madinmaryland]

185. This is what really annoys me, with you pontificating about shit

after talking about masturbating to the latest SI Swimsuit edition.

Sad, just very fucking sad.

[trumad]

192. Pontificating?

Really.... I think this post annoys you for other reasons.

[egduj]

188. And don't leave your infant in the bathtub with the water running and go watch TV!!

I hear you Trumad, I can't believe shit like this still needs to be said. Way to get the word out

[cherokeeprogressive]

195. This post is offensive BEYOND belief.

[ChosenUnWisely]

204. Yet you participated in it anyway

Why if it is so offensive to you?

[trumad]

205. my post?

If so...please explain.

[cherokeeprogressive]

217. No trumad I posted this in the wrong place I'm sorry.

[Recursion]

199. There was a piece in Jezebel yesterday about frat rushes at UVa this semester

http://jezebel.com/rush-after-a-rape-on-campus-a-uva-alum-goes-back-to-ru-1682251600

Far down in there is an interesting point which I will now paraphrase:

What will stop acquaintance rape is when bro's say to one another, "bro, she's way too drunk; avoid her like the plague. You do not want to deal with what could happen there".

It's distasteful, but I have to agree with the idea that that is what will actually work, long term.

[trumad]

210. My alert stalker alerted yesterday...

Had to wait 24 hours to alert again....it appears he did.

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Sexist. Why does this only apply to men?

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Jan 30, 2015, 02:11 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I understand the sentiments of the alerter. Also I do think that the post was somewhat rude and over the top, although I appreciate the poster's sentiments. And yes, I am very well aware that women can rape men. But sometimes it isn't sexism, it's the way things are.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Give me a fucking break.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: You have got to be kidding me. There is nothing sexist about this. Why would someone alert this??
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: OK. We get it. But "guys" has a contemporary generic connotation. I'm pretty sure OP doesn't mean it's ok for women to consummate a sexual encounter w. another ( unconscious) woman.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: He doesn't say it only applies to men.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

Hey alert Stalker---Ha Ha

[Rex]

218. "Why does this only apply to men?"

Looks like your stalker has a sadz.