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kpete

(71,900 posts)
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 01:14 PM Jan 2015

Bill Maher Drops A Reality Bomb On Republicans: American middle-class was created though socialism

Bill Maher Drops A Reality Bomb On Republicans Who Pretend To Care About The Middle Class

By: Jason Easleymore from Jason Easley
Saturday, January, 31st, 2015, 11:24 am




Republicans are pretending to care while they go back to servicing eight rich d***heads who own coal mines, and no one is telling the truth, which is that the large thriving middle-class that America used to have didn’t just appear out of the blue.

It was created using an economic tool called socialism.


Oh, I know when never use that word here in buzzword nation, but that is exactly what our government did after World War II. It taxed the rich up to ninety percent and massively redistributed that money through the GI Bill so that more than half the population benefitted from free college, free job training, cheap mortgages, and much much more. Yes, for a brief shining moment, we were Finland. Now we can debate whether that is a good thing or bad thing to go back to, but what is beyond debate is that is what happened. The Fifties and Sixties are the era of socialism in America.

Here’s the reality. A middle-class is actually not the byproduct of capitalism. Ask any historian, a middle-class is actually a fluke in history.


MORE:
http://www.politicususa.com/2015/01/31/bill-maher-drops-reality-bomb-republicans-pretend-care-middle-class.html
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Bill Maher Drops A Reality Bomb On Republicans: American middle-class was created though socialism (Original Post) kpete Jan 2015 OP
k&r ND-Dem Jan 2015 #1
It is looking that way more every day. Enthusiast Jan 2015 #15
A very famous capitalist Roy Rolling Jan 2015 #20
and right he was ND-Dem Jan 2015 #27
Who was that? former9thward Feb 2015 #65
Talking to a friend that works for a medical insurance company. Just where did your job come from? brewens Jan 2015 #2
Any kind of size-able middle class is impossible without government intervention stevenleser Jan 2015 #3
I dont think you are allowed to say the word socialism here... NoJusticeNoPeace Jan 2015 #4
say it loud and say it proud navarth Jan 2015 #47
The U.S. Military tecelote Feb 2015 #68
Summary of the Republican strategy: thesquanderer Jan 2015 #5
K&R. Thanks, Bill! nt valerief Jan 2015 #6
k&r Starry Messenger Jan 2015 #7
Well... yallerdawg Jan 2015 #8
I am an upper-case 'D' Democrat, but I'm really a lower-case 'd' democratic socialist. ColesCountyDem Jan 2015 #9
K&R! napkinz Jan 2015 #10
That was an excellent New Rule. Initech Jan 2015 #11
Not "petty" criminals. Grand larceny = *major* criminality. nt tblue37 Jan 2015 #37
True - it is grand larceny. Initech Jan 2015 #44
When people rob banks it's a felony... Padiddle Feb 2015 #73
Greatest economic growth EVER (1960-70's) under most socialized period. ErikJ Jan 2015 #12
Priceless! McCamy Taylor Jan 2015 #13
Bill is just being silly. But he is right. Enthusiast Jan 2015 #14
The middle class was created by unions AgingAmerican Jan 2015 #16
Even regionally in the USA underpants Jan 2015 #30
+100. n/t whathehell Feb 2015 #66
Strong unions AND high tax rate for most wealthy duhneece Feb 2015 #69
He's got this one dead right.. mountain grammy Jan 2015 #17
Apparently Bill has no idea what socialism is. former9thward Jan 2015 #18
socialism = socialized means of production and socialized distribution of benefits/wealth. so ND-Dem Jan 2015 #28
I am unaware of any socialized means of production in Germany. former9thward Jan 2015 #32
sorry, they *are* socialist; the cost and benefit is socialized. the opposite would be privately ND-Dem Jan 2015 #35
So when the Romans had Bears tear apart Christians former9thward Jan 2015 #36
if the government was paying for free entertainment for the masses -- yeah, it was at least ND-Dem Jan 2015 #41
I would love to see you link to a Socialist thinker former9thward Jan 2015 #42
marx was a communist thinker ND-Dem Jan 2015 #43
+10 appalachiablue Jan 2015 #48
That may be true JonLP24 Jan 2015 #40
Dictionary definitions JDPriestly Jan 2015 #61
Yes,it "isn't exactly socialism" former9thward Feb 2015 #64
former9thward Diclotican Feb 2015 #70
Yes, I agree with I think everything you say. former9thward Feb 2015 #71
former9thward Diclotican Feb 2015 #72
Let's Have A Plague! moondust Jan 2015 #19
We've already have the measles, what else do you want... lonestarnot Jan 2015 #25
Maher is right...... RationalMan Jan 2015 #21
The main reason was the existence of the soviet bloc and communism as the "threat of a ND-Dem Jan 2015 #29
The decline happened way before the collapse of the Soviet Union AZ Progressive Jan 2015 #34
no; the decline *started* before the collapse, but not "way before". There were rebellions ND-Dem Jan 2015 #39
Maher smacks it out of the park again. hifiguy Jan 2015 #22
Good on Bill. Joaquin Casto was great. Dems. should put him in a cabinet position or VP asap. appalachiablue Jan 2015 #23
After WW II The Wizard Jan 2015 #24
Before WW II JonLP24 Jan 2015 #33
I suspect Julian Castro will be the Dem VP nominee in 2016, or in 2020 at the latest. nt tblue37 Jan 2015 #38
Yes. I agree. And he will be elected. JDPriestly Jan 2015 #51
"Right Arm" Bill. nm rhett o rick Jan 2015 #26
Don't think he's had Warren on the show; he should. Naomi Klein was on last fall, Bernie too. appalachiablue Jan 2015 #46
Yes he's had Warren on the show navarth Jan 2015 #50
Thanks. A return would be good. appalachiablue Jan 2015 #52
John Maynard Keynes JonLP24 Jan 2015 #31
Bill Maher... sendero Jan 2015 #45
Confession: We bought our house with the GI Bill. Couldn't have done it without JDPriestly Jan 2015 #49
Socialized =/= socialism Matrosov Jan 2015 #53
We do have Socialsm in this country, it's called Privatize the profits - Socialize the losses Dont call me Shirley Jan 2015 #55
Not quite correct PowerToThePeople Jan 2015 #57
True, though some also consider that real communism... Matrosov Jan 2015 #60
A middle-class is the key to peace and prosperity. JDPriestly Jan 2015 #54
Republicans don't care n2doc Jan 2015 #56
This route was denied to blacks through discriminatory federal housing policy. kwassa Jan 2015 #58
Socialism!? davidn3600 Jan 2015 #59
K&R! DeSwiss Jan 2015 #62
Oh is that he says? What does Rush Limbaugh think? And how about Mitt Romney? closeupready Jan 2015 #63
K, R, Bookmarking. n/t BlancheSplanchnik Feb 2015 #67
kick napkinz Feb 2015 #74
 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
1. k&r
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 01:21 PM
Jan 2015

capitalism is a tool for privatizing the commons and 'wealth' and funneling it to capitalists

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
15. It is looking that way more every day.
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 03:09 PM
Jan 2015

The constitutional concept of the General Welfare has damned near disappeared.

Roy Rolling

(6,853 posts)
20. A very famous capitalist
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 03:24 PM
Jan 2015

Once told me in 1987, "don't be mistaken, capitalism is all about moving wealth from the many to the few."

brewens

(13,393 posts)
2. Talking to a friend that works for a medical insurance company. Just where did your job come from?
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 01:28 PM
Jan 2015

That's what I asked him. Don't those large insurance companies exist because and only because of the labor movement?

The last thing employers wanted to do was give their workers medical benefits but the workers organized and made them want to! Without medical benefits being common for about everyone with any kind ofa good job, no big insurance companies.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
3. Any kind of size-able middle class is impossible without government intervention
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 01:28 PM
Jan 2015

It doesn't take much observation of the histories of other countries to come to that inescapable conclusion.

Virtually all of Latin America is a good example. What's happening to Russia and China as they move(d) from Communism to a market based economy is also a good example as is all of western Europe. You just don't get much of a middle class unless the government is present and active and creating the appropriate laws and regulations and safety net.

NoJusticeNoPeace

(5,018 posts)
4. I dont think you are allowed to say the word socialism here...
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 01:36 PM
Jan 2015

duck and cover...unless that rule only applies to me

granted my sin was posting a pic of the socialist party emblem, which i did mostly as a way to get people talking about why we cant survive here without it

without socialism, not the socialist party

Without the socialism Bill talked about, ALL of the money, instead of whatever it is, 60%, would be in the hands of the one percent.

navarth

(5,927 posts)
47. say it loud and say it proud
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 07:44 PM
Jan 2015

as far as I'm concerned. Anybody that would come down on you for that is suspect IMO.

thesquanderer

(11,953 posts)
5. Summary of the Republican strategy:
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 02:22 PM
Jan 2015

1. Prevent Obama from taking away any of the tax breaks for the rich

2. Blame Obama when the rich keep getting disproportionately richer.

ColesCountyDem

(6,943 posts)
9. I am an upper-case 'D' Democrat, but I'm really a lower-case 'd' democratic socialist.
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 02:46 PM
Jan 2015

I absolutely agree with Bill!

Initech

(99,912 posts)
11. That was an excellent New Rule.
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 02:53 PM
Jan 2015

And unlike last week's New Rule, no I won't make nice with the people who created this mess.The crooks who looted this country are nothing more than petty criminals. They deserve to be called out as such, and as more people are waking up to how much they have stolen from us, only then should they be made to serve time in the for profit prisons they created. That would be a just punishment.

Initech

(99,912 posts)
44. True - it is grand larceny.
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 06:26 PM
Jan 2015

We caught Bernie Madoff for creating a pyramid scheme. The Koch Bros fortune has quadrupled in the last ten years, and these greedy fuckers only want more. Isn't it time they got arrested for grand larceny?

 

AgingAmerican

(12,958 posts)
16. The middle class was created by unions
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 03:12 PM
Jan 2015

Every country on earth with a strong middle class has strong unions, and it isn't just a coincidence.

duhneece

(4,104 posts)
69. Strong unions AND high tax rate for most wealthy
Sun Feb 1, 2015, 10:15 AM
Feb 2015

That combo changed our world...for the better, but building better infrastructure including great public education, legal system-our law enforcement was paid decently and there was not the 'Great War on Drugs'-excellent interstate highways and bridges. Between FDR's New Deal, strong unions, high tax rate for most wealthy to build public education institutions, we had a country that was getting better all the time.

We still had a long way to go to include ALL (blacks, gays, women with full rights, etc.) but we were headed to more inclusion.

Then came the worship of unregulated capitalism and the murder of unions.

mountain grammy

(26,568 posts)
17. He's got this one dead right..
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 03:13 PM
Jan 2015

the 50's and 60's are what spurred the infamous Powell memo. Power to the people, democracy on the rise, Civil Rights, Voting Rights, Women's Rights, the road to destruction for the oligarchs. They still would have been plenty rich, but they wouldn't have owned literally everything had we stayed on track.

former9thward

(31,802 posts)
18. Apparently Bill has no idea what socialism is.
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 03:21 PM
Jan 2015

None of what he described is socialism. Social safety nets, like retirement and old age health insurance were first invented in the 1880s by the 19th century's greatest enemy of socialism, Otto von Bismarck of Germany.

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
28. socialism = socialized means of production and socialized distribution of benefits/wealth. so
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 05:16 PM
Jan 2015

despite bismark's antipathy toward 'socialism' he did indeed practice some of it.

perhaps to head off growing dissatisfaction in Germany, ya think?


He was the master of complex politics at home. He created the first welfare state in the modern world, with the goal of gaining working class support that might otherwise go to his Socialist enemies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_von_Bismarck

former9thward

(31,802 posts)
32. I am unaware of any socialized means of production in Germany.
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 05:25 PM
Jan 2015

Last edited Sat Jan 31, 2015, 06:11 PM - Edit history (1)

You can't pick bits out and claim socialism. Posters have claimed in similar threads that things like roads, police and fire are socialist. Ridiculous. Now the Romans were socialist? It is just silly.

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
35. sorry, they *are* socialist; the cost and benefit is socialized. the opposite would be privately
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 05:41 PM
Jan 2015

financed roads for which tolls are charged for profit. not unknown in US history, btw.

if you think anyone's 'picking out bits' I think you just don't get it.

former9thward

(31,802 posts)
36. So when the Romans had Bears tear apart Christians
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 05:49 PM
Jan 2015

as part of government sponsored free entertainment for the masses that was an example of their socialist government. Ok, got it...

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
41. if the government was paying for free entertainment for the masses -- yeah, it was at least
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 06:03 PM
Jan 2015

partly socialist.

they were paying for bread along with the circuses, as well, if you recall.

and one of the reasons for socialized services and entertainment is to keep the masses from rebelling; same as it ever was.

former9thward

(31,802 posts)
42. I would love to see you link to a Socialist thinker
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 06:10 PM
Jan 2015

who backs up your views. Marx certainly would not.

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
43. marx was a communist thinker
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 06:13 PM
Jan 2015

if rome paid entertainers, or bear keepers, to entertain, and allowed the public to watch the entertainment for free, it was providing socialized entertainment and socializing the benefit.

socialized the means of production (through state financing) and socialized the benefit.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
40. That may be true
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 06:01 PM
Jan 2015

but a lot of it in its current form came from Frances Perkins, Henry Rogers Seager, and John Maynard Keynes.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
61. Dictionary definitions
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 11:12 PM
Jan 2015

: a way of organizing a society in which major industries are owned and controlled by the government rather than by individual people and companies

Full Definition of SOCIALISM
1
: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2
a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property
b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3
: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism

We are talking about a social safety net as was Maher.

A lot of Americans call that socialism. What is really meant is that the owners of the "means of production" (i think that is an outmoded term) are taxed to provide a social net for everyone. It isn't exactly socialism.

former9thward

(31,802 posts)
64. Yes,it "isn't exactly socialism"
Sun Feb 1, 2015, 01:25 AM
Feb 2015

It is a form of stateist corporate capitalism that Marx and Lenin would not call socialism.

Diclotican

(5,095 posts)
70. former9thward
Sun Feb 1, 2015, 01:07 PM
Feb 2015

former9thward

And one of the reasons he did that- created a solid safety net, like retirement and old age insurance was because? - he was scared to death by the facts that the labor movements at the same time was ready to start parties - who could beat the conservatives in their own game - and muster enough votes to get elected into Reich tag - their national assembly... Otto von Bismarck was no friend of the workers in Germany - but he did understand when to reform and when not to - and he understood by the early if he, and his Kaiser was to survive the last couple of decades - he had to change how things was been doing in Germany... After all even Karl Marx stated rather clearly that the first socialistic revolution should happened in Germany - not as it did - in Imperial Russia... In fact even Lenin was put ablast by the fact Russia had started the revolution before Germany did.... It never come to any socialistic revolution in Germany - not before world war one - not later either - even if the conservatives - in the form of one of the most extreme politic ans ever to live in the 20th century Adolf Hitler managed to do more damage to germany than socialism ever managed to do...

Diclotican

former9thward

(31,802 posts)
71. Yes, I agree with I think everything you say.
Sun Feb 1, 2015, 01:52 PM
Feb 2015

I am trying to make the point that socialism is a economic system not a social system. What is known as social safety nets can and do exist to one degree or another in all economic systems including socialism, capitalism, and even feudalism.

Diclotican

(5,095 posts)
72. former9thward
Sun Feb 1, 2015, 03:31 PM
Feb 2015

former9thward

Socialism is more of a economical system - than a social system - even I know that - And some form of safety nets can, and have existed over the last millenniums - even in roman time it existed at least until 280 AD - when the taxes and the debase of the monetary values more or less destroyed what social safety nets existed back then...

In the middle ages - and also all the way up to our own time - Churches have been instrumental in building safety nets who needy people can and was given help - specially the Catholic church had great emphasis on helping the needy - Frans Assisi - who originally was a wealthy man who had some sort of a personal crisis - turned 180 grades around - gave all his wealth away - and lived the rest of his natural life as a poor Monk, and even grounded what become of the order of Franciscans - a order where poverty is one of its most important tenets, Not that it was any hinder for the order to be rich and powerfully all over Europe back in the days - even today they own a lot of property all over Europe - at least Western part of Europe, but still they do great services to many who other vice might not have had excess to anything... That be some food - or a shelter - or medical need when it arrive..

Feudalism did had some ideas of safety nets - even if it was mostly up to the lords of the manor to deiced if they wanted to do it or not - in most cases it was the customers of the manor who deiced if the needy was given help or not - but it was often a deep rooted tradition going back to antiquity - that the nobles every fall, had a celebration for the good harvest - where everyone was invited and was eating and drinking for days at the time. And where the social customs between lord and peasants was less clearly than in the rest of the year - in most cases it was the church, in the middle ages the Catholic Church who did most of the services to needy people - sick, ill, old people not able to fend or them self - and children who had lost their parents - all of them could be given help from the church - or the local monastery - as long as needed... Many of the children who had lost their parents and ended up in a monastery - was staying there for the rest of their life - often ended up as monks them self - because they had been teach the ideals from a young age - and maybe also because, for the most part they had no other shoice....

Every civilized nations on the face of the earth have some form of a safety net, where you can get help and attention to your needs if needed - but in the US, it is still mostly fend for yourself - and if I have not mistaken it - it is not easy to get help from your form of Social net for the ones who end up sick or poor - or have never experienced anything else than being poor..

Dicloticna

moondust

(19,917 posts)
19. Let's Have A Plague!
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 03:22 PM
Jan 2015

Globalization makes the situation much worse. Unlike the 14th century, if a plague today wiped out a whole continent or two there would still be an unlimited supply of accessible cheap labor thanks to cheap global transportation and global communications that didn't exist until relatively recently. Since a global labor strike is unrealistic, it's probably up to governments to act to prevent a slide into global neofeudalism.

RationalMan

(96 posts)
21. Maher is right......
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 03:29 PM
Jan 2015

The modern middle class came out of the ravages of WWII.

The way I see it there were 4 major reasons we saw the emergence of a vibrant middle class in post-war America.

1. GI benefits - The GI Bill gave veterans government loans and payments for college, the purchase of a home, etc. Young men returning from war could get an advanced education partially or totally paid for by the U.S. taxpayer and get assistance in buying a home. They also got medical and other VA benefits.

2. Unions - for those returning soldiers that did not go into professions such as medicine, dentistry, law, accounting, etc., they went to work in America's factories. In those factories labor organized and fought for better working conditions, better pay and benefits like the 5 day / 40 hour work week, paid sick leave and vacation and company pensions.

3. Tax system that favored the middle class - marginal rates on the wealthiest Americans were well above 70%. That revenue helped pay for roads (Eisenhower's modern interstate highway system), bridges, ports, etc. It paid for investments in research, etc.

4. America as super power - some of the rise of the American middle class after the war can be attributed to the fact that American business - products and services, were pre-eminent. The rest of the world was in tatters. Europe and much of Asia was devastated by the war. American businesses were able to establish strong positions in many parts of the world which in turn provided markets for American goods made by American union workers.

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
29. The main reason was the existence of the soviet bloc and communism as the "threat of a
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 05:18 PM
Jan 2015

good example" compared to mass unemployment.


Today there's no longer a communist bloc and surprise! The working class is going down the tubes.

AZ Progressive

(3,411 posts)
34. The decline happened way before the collapse of the Soviet Union
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 05:40 PM
Jan 2015

It started with deregulation in the late 70's and accelerated under Reagan.

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
39. no; the decline *started* before the collapse, but not "way before". There were rebellions
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 06:00 PM
Jan 2015

going on in most of the Soviet republics throughout the 80s, and 6 formally declared independence in 1990, three years before the USSR formally 'collapsed'.

The weakness of the USSR, helped on by the US, was the reason for the turn to the right.

You remember when the Soviets had to buy wheat from the US?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_grain_robbery

That was a symptom of its weakness, as it's got a huge grain belt.

appalachiablue

(41,052 posts)
23. Good on Bill. Joaquin Casto was great. Dems. should put him in a cabinet position or VP asap.
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 03:53 PM
Jan 2015

And same for his brother Julian. Good panel, better than last weeks. Bill said the 14th c. Black Plague took out one third of Europe's population, lead to higher paid labor, a sizable middle class and the Renaissance. Thom Hartmann also mentions this.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
33. Before WW II
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 05:27 PM
Jan 2015

Trickle Down economics led to the Great Depression. After it a resurgence led to so many recessions, including the Great Recession.

appalachiablue

(41,052 posts)
46. Don't think he's had Warren on the show; he should. Naomi Klein was on last fall, Bernie too.
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 07:24 PM
Jan 2015

Prof. Richard Wolff, the economist was a guest in the last several months.

navarth

(5,927 posts)
50. Yes he's had Warren on the show
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 07:48 PM
Jan 2015

She was the first guest at least once I can remember. Back before she was a senator IIRC.

FYI.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
31. John Maynard Keynes
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 05:23 PM
Jan 2015

Keynesian economics (/ˈkeɪnziən/ KAYN-zee-ən; or Keynesianism) is the view that in the short run, especially during recessions, economic output is strongly influenced by aggregate demand (total spending in the economy). In the Keynesian view, aggregate demand does not necessarily equal the productive capacity of the economy; instead, it is influenced by a host of factors and sometimes behaves erratically, affecting production, employment, and inflation.[1]

The theories forming the basis of Keynesian economics were first presented by the British economist John Maynard Keynes in his book, The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money, published in 1936, during the Great Depression. Keynes contrasted his approach to the aggregate supply-focused 'classical' economics that preceded his book. The interpretations of Keynes that followed are contentious and several schools of economic thought claim his legacy.

Keynesian economists often argue that private sector decisions sometimes lead to inefficient macroeconomic outcomes which require active policy responses by the public sector, in particular, monetary policy actions by the central bank and fiscal policy actions by the government, in order to stabilize output over the business cycle.[2] Keynesian economics advocates a mixed economy – predominantly private sector, but with a role for government intervention during recessions.

Keynesian economics served as the standard economic model in the developed nations during the later part of the Great Depression, World War II, and the post-war economic expansion (1945–1973), though it lost some influence following the oil shock and resulting stagflation of the 1970s.[3] The advent of the global financial crisis in 2008 has caused a resurgence in Keynesian thought.[4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesian_economics

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
49. Confession: We bought our house with the GI Bill. Couldn't have done it without
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 07:47 PM
Jan 2015

the help of the government. Could not have saved the down payment. We just did not earn that much money.

Thanks for telling the truth, Bill Maher.

 

Matrosov

(1,098 posts)
53. Socialized =/= socialism
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 07:53 PM
Jan 2015

True socialism includes a centrally planned economy and having the means of production owned and operated by the government. That's why the USSR may have been Communist in the sense that it was ruled by their Communist party, but the actual economic model was socialism.

Meanwhile, true capitalism has not existed in a long time and the current systems in the US and Europe are socialized capitalism, but as long as the economy is market driven and the means of production are owned and operated by private entities, it is not true socialism either.

What has changed is the degree to which that socialized capitalism is socialized, and at least there we can say that socialization has helped build up the middle class, while deregulation is tearing down the middle class again.

Excuse the nitpicking

 

PowerToThePeople

(9,610 posts)
57. Not quite correct
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 09:30 PM
Jan 2015
True socialism includes a centrally planned economy and having the means of production owned and operated by the government.


This is not what Marx described as Socialism.

The workers own and manage the means of production, not the government. It very closely resembles a pure democracy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism_%28Marxism%29
 

Matrosov

(1,098 posts)
60. True, though some also consider that real communism...
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 11:08 PM
Jan 2015

...where the people (workers) collectively own and manage the means of production, and the government owned and managed stage is the socialistic bridge between capitalism.

Regardless, I would agree with Maher that the government has played an important role in shaping the middle class. Some of the comments in the HuffPo article are hilarious, making it sound as though FDR's programs caused the Great Depression in the first place, when it was of course those programs and especially the wartime and post-war spending by the government that helped the country back out of it, whereas the capitalists could do nothing against the Great Depression before FDR.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
54. A middle-class is the key to peace and prosperity.
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 07:54 PM
Jan 2015

It was the destruction of the middle class in Germany in Austria due to the debts the countries owed after WWI that drove them to madness.

That's my theory. I lived there. Germany and Austria always have a strong middle class. Even their conservatives are socialist. It's just their sense of identity within their society. They do, in my experience, really love order -- not in a sick way. (I was totally out of place there. I'm terribly messy. That's why I can say with authority that German society in which order and inclusion of other German-speaking people are values, revered values. Boy, was I out of place. I'm such a non-conformist.) But I can appreciate that they love the order and the social inclusion that makes their culture strong. It was tough being an outsider there, but their society is strong.

We could use a bit more of that stuff - not too much, but a bit more. So I agree with Bill Maher.

n2doc

(47,953 posts)
56. Republicans don't care
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 08:08 PM
Jan 2015

They pay lip service to the middle class, but their interests are best served by an America consisting of a few obscenely rich people calling the shots, and a vast pool of ignorant, superstitious and easily frightened poor who can be manipulated into supporting whatever the rich want. And fighting their wars.

So far they are winning the battle to hollow out America.

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
58. This route was denied to blacks through discriminatory federal housing policy.
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 09:56 PM
Jan 2015

Most whites obtained wealth through rising values of their real estate equity. The real estate loans came about as part of the post-war GI Bill housing loan guaranty, but among the provisions was red-lining against minorities. Blacks were denied this opportunity, a massive financial crime against them.

Talk about white privilege.

 

closeupready

(29,503 posts)
63. Oh is that he says? What does Rush Limbaugh think? And how about Mitt Romney?
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 11:50 PM
Jan 2015


Why is anyone here still watching that bigoted celebrity's variety show?
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