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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsNew Poll Reveals Serious Liabilities for Hillary
Last edited Mon Feb 2, 2015, 02:31 PM - Edit history (1)
I hadn't seen this posted. Please forgive if a dup.
[font color=red]
It has been brought to my attention that this poll was commissioned by Warrenistas, and that some of the items have a sort of push-poll or attack-testing flavor. So proceed with caution.[/font]
Hillary long has promoted the interests of Wall Street, as did Bill, and Bills Presidency delivered big-time for them, deregulating banks, deregulating the telecom industry and passing NAFTA. Those gifts to the financial industry have brought the Clintons and the Clinton Foundation millions from Wall Street, but it turns out this comes at a serious price to Mrs. Clinton: The public doesnt like it. When voters are asked whether her past support of deregulation of the big banks would make them more or less likely to vote for her, 19% say More Likely and 49% say Less Likely. Hillary has defended bonuses for bank managers in the bailed-out banks and when asked if they would be more or less likely to support a candidate who supported bank bonuses, 13% say More Likely and 57% say Less Likely. When told that Hillary has accepted speaking fees up to $200,000 per speech from Wall Street banks and has failed to demand accountability from banks for the 2008 financial collapse, 14% say theyd be More Likely to support such a candidate and 57% say Less Likely. When asked if they would be more or less likely to support a candidate for President who had supported NAFTA, as had the Clintons, 21% say More Likely and 51% say Less Likely. When asked if they would be more or less likely to support a candidate who supports loaning money to college students at the same low interest rates the U.S. loans money to banks, as Elizabeth Warren has, or a candidate like Hillary who has remained silent on this issue, 58% support low interest rates for students and 24% favor a candidate who has stayed silent about this.
Other subjects polled almost as badly for Mrs. Clinton. When asked if its a good thing to keep electing Presidents from the same family, 20% say it is a good thing and 46% say its better to have a fresher face in the White House. When asked if Hillary Clinton should be a candidate for the Democratic Presidential nomination in 2016, 37% say Yes and 43% say No. When asked, Some people say Hillary Clinton is a strong leader with a lot of great experience, and that she would bring the right balance of views to the Presidency, while others think she is too beholden to special interests like Wall Street and defense contractors, 36% say she would bring the right balance of views to the Presidency, while 48% say Clinton is too beholden to wealthy special interests. When asked if Hillary as the Democratic candidate for President would make them more or less likely to support Democratic candidates for other offices, only 25% say More Likely and 40% say Less Likely. I dont recall ever seeing a poll showing that a Presidential candidate would drag the ticket down by 15 points and I certainly hope all Democratic office holders who will be running for re-election in 2016 and donors who are working to take back the Senate and House from Republican control pay attention to that finding!
By contrast, Elizabeth Warrens positions on these important economic issues polled extremely well with voters. When asked, U.S. Senator Elizabeth Warren has said that special interests like Wall Street have rigged the system in their favor, while working and middle class wages have stagnated, 49% say they would be More Likely to support a candidate who wanted to bring the big banks under control, while only 23% disagreed. When asked if they would be more or less likely to support a candidate who has criticized bank bonuses, as had Elizabeth Warren, 54% say More Likely and 20% say Less Likely. When asked if they would be more or less likely to support a candidate for President, like Elizabeth Warren, who thinks Wall Street should be held accountable for the financial speculation, which contributed to the collapse of the economy, 59% say More Likely and only 16% say Less Likely.
With the collapse of the middle class, the American public increasingly is turning populist, but tone-deaf Hillary is still preaching 1990s values and economic policies, which are not likely to play well in 2016. If she tries to change stripes now, she risks the most fatal of all political afflictions: Inauthenticity.
http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/new-national-poll-reveals-serious-liabilities-hillary?akid=12744.187861.zCmQfy&rd=1&src=newsletter1031225&t=11
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,635 posts)This article is right in line with my own thinking.
Now what?
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)How 'bout we find some charismatic candidate who actually espouses our values and shows evidence of caring for the conditions of the common people, and figuring our how to induce that person to run?
Not that I have anyone in mind, of course--but I will say that one of my principles is to seriously doubt the motives of anyone who really wants the job, based merely on the fact that they actually want it.
It would follow from that that the only acceptable type of candidate is one you practically have to coerce into running.
QuestionAlways
(259 posts)but once I read the poll I knew it was a push poll. Therefore not usefully or valid.
elleng
(130,973 posts)that poll's a year old, and we know what a year (a day/a week/a month) means in politics.
I do HOPE that the public is turning 'populist,' and in fact am hoping for a Greece-like remake of us (and the world.) Discussed on this thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6166775
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)The article itself is dated 2/1/15, so I believe that this is data from January 20-21, 2015.
elleng
(130,973 posts)and makes my earlier reference to this thread MORE relevant:
With Syrizas Victory, the Anti-Austerity Movement is Going Mainstream.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6166775
fredamae
(4,458 posts)Look on their site. I don't find this poll in 2015
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/
And researching their archives...I can't find it for Jan of 2014
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/
on the other hand-AlterNet says it was Completed Jan 20-21, 2014...but why wait a year to release the findings...a Lot has changed; wouldn't that make these findings moot?
Or, where did I miss in my research?
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)zeemike
(18,998 posts)It is the politicians that are not.
And that is why voter turnout is low...just ask them why they don't vote.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)supporters, I would think, as it shows his message may play on fertile ground.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Not, just, a couple of weeks ago ... when HRC polling indicated strong support ... we were told "polling numbers are meaningless" and only serve "to confirm, not inform".
I, happen to agree with both of the points, as the vast majority of the public have not a clue as to how to interpret polling results (or to assess the validity of any particular poll); but, it is the clear rule: polling results that I disagree with are to be ignored; whereas, polling results that I agree with, are to be the touchstone of reality.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)validation for positions they already hold (aka: "confirmation bias" .
I think a head-to-head matchup between Sanders and HRC would be the best thing for the Democratic Party since at least 2008 and maybe have the prospect of being as significant as the Lincoln-Douglas debates in terms of gravitas, when compared to the fascists' looming spectacle. I could see a civil but spirited debate between Sanders and HRC vastly expanding the ranks of the party and placing the Republicans once and for all into the "dustbin of history" where they've belonged, imo, since at least 1981, if not 1933.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)However, I would love that head to head to include Senator Warren ... and go beyond merely economic issues.
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)Thank you for this post.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)Cosmic Kitten
(3,498 posts)So rather than allow or promote people
subscribing to dubious poll results,
why not expose the polls for what they represent?
The continued defense and misuse of polling data
should be shouted down for the frauds they perpetuate.
Polling as is currently employed does not serve
the public interest and does damage to the democratic process.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)this poll included.
Autumn
(45,107 posts)Our economic policies are not helping and a continuation of them is the last thing we need and Hillary will be a continuation.
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)(which, as far as I know is sailor talk for "Turn left fast."
brooklynite
(94,596 posts)...then turning left means you're going sideways.
Vincardog
(20,234 posts)Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)HappyMe
(20,277 posts)Please pick up the red 'Help!' phone at the courtesy desk.
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)He'll think it's Hillary fucking with him.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)Good point.
TheNutcracker
(2,104 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)The questions are by design extremely slanted against Clinton and in favor of Warren.
The people paying for the poll wanted one that had bad numbers for Team Clinton, so they designed a poll to give them what they wanted.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)werewolf, does that make you more or less likely to support her?"
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)"Wait ... Foul! This is clearly a push poll!"
appalachiablue
(41,145 posts)Repugs what the moon is to werewolves. Great comment).
yellowcanine
(35,699 posts)I don't think Elizabeth Warren is going to run but if she does I am ready to hear her make the case for why she would be a good President.
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)27
Comments (54) By CHARLES MAHTESIAN | 11/7/12 4:05 PM EST
The Democratic automated polling firm Public Policy Polling, which took flak all year long from Republicans complaining about its partisan bias, had a very, very good Election Day.
In every swing state, its final presidential polls were validated Tuesday night as PPP reported the correct winner in all 9 battlegrounds and in the 3 other states (Michigan, Minnesota, and Pennsylvania) that the Romney campaign feinted toward.
In its final state polls before the election, PPP had President Obama ahead in every battleground state except North Carolina where it reported a statistical tie with Romney at 49.4 and Obama at 49.2. And thats very close to how it all played out.
While more than a few firms picked the right winners, PPP also nailed the exact result at the moment, at least in Florida, 50-49. And in most cases it was never more than a point or two off each candidates performance.
A Fordham University report released Wednesday ranked the firm first among 28 organizations for the accuracy of its final, national preelection estimates.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/charlie-mahtesian/2012/11/ppp-nailed-it-148911.html
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Go ahead and read the "questions" they posed about Clinton-they are all attacks on Clinton. The Warren "questions" are full of positive statements about her.
That makes the results hopelessly biased, because the poll questions themselves were hopelessly biased.
No polling firm on the planet could conduct this poll and claim it was a measure of actual voter sentiment.
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)reported in the article. Unless you have the whole poll, complete with the administration manual, you can't tell a lot about what it actually contains.
And I know of no reason to think that PPP conducts push polls.
As to the accuracy of their results, I absolutely agree that results this far out may not be stable; on the other hand, they are worth attending to.
I know they poll for Kos, but I don't know who paid for this poll. That would be very interesting to know.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Any statements about a candidate that go beyond name and party affiliation are never okay in legit public opinion surveys. Once you start rattling off "Hillary Clinton has a picture of Jamie Dimon on her dresser" types of questions, you stop measuring what voters will do and what they think--instead you're measuring their reaction to your statements about the candidate.
This is propaganda and attack-testing. Even if one agrees with it.
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)I'll only say that the motivations behind the poll are not necessarily what I thought they were when I posted it, and I would at least post cautions with it if I were to do that again. i'm editing the OP.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)In re-examining what happened here, I see that I was the victim of my own confirmatory bias. That is, the poll presented information that supported my position, and that blinded me to some rather obvious methodological problems. I really try to fight that in myself, but sometimes I fail in some degree or another.
There is an underlying reality, as confirmed in actual electoral referendum results, that the public is much more in favor of individual progressive proposals (min. wage, pot, etc.) than their political spectrum self-labeling would indicate. I think that knowledge set me up to be less critical of the poll than I would like to think is my custom.
We do need to operate on the basis of good information, and I don't at all oppose conducting polls like this--sort of political marketing research. However, the results of these exercises do not reflect actual voting behavior, have no predictive power, and should not be presented to the public as reliable information in that respect. For any one of those questions, there is probably a way to frame it so as to get the opposite response from the respondent. The issue being tested is how to frame the issue to get a desired response, and is not even an appropriate methodology for eliciting quantitative opinion data.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)I won't argue that the poll was a good poll but don't judge it by that Politico article.
"A group of major donors who want Elizabeth Warren to run..." Really, who is this undefined group of donors and how does Politico know what they want? Who is the mysterious person that gave Politico the poll and did he/she say that he was a Sen Warren supporter? And who is this "cadre of rich donors"? None of these statements have been authenticated. This is journalism today.
I won't support the poll because I am not a fan of polls and this poll could have been initiated by anyone.
And isn't the word, "Warrenistas" pejorative?
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)on what this poll is all about, what its methodology was, text of the individual questions, etc.
As for "Warrenista," it was meant as a harmless gibe from someone flying a Warren banner.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)not know for being friendly to the Left, appears to be trying to blame Warren supporters. That's a serious accusation without some proof. They offer nothing but crap in the article. It may have been Warren supporters, or Respublicans, or even Clinton supporters who would give it to Politico with the frame up of Warren supporters. The point is we don't know from what we've seen.
I have a hunch that "Warrenista" will be used as a pejorative if it isn't already. Not blaming you or your use.
Cosmic Kitten
(3,498 posts)Apparently you have some special knowledge
about polling and date crunching?
How can we prevent being deceived by future polls?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Let's put it this way:
If someone asked people "Elizabeth Warren supports abortion-on-demand, increasing taxes on hardworking Americans, and has been accused of lying about her own ancestry. Does this make you more likely or less likely to support her?"
I suspect the anti-Hillary folks would suddenly pick up on how push-polling works if the shoe were on the other foot.
Cosmic Kitten
(3,498 posts)Havn't seen any evidence this poll
was conducted by the "Warrenistas".
If the questions are accurate reflections
of a candidates positions or actions why
aren't they "fair game"?
Just because a truth is unflattering
doesn't make it an invalid point for polling.
Do you have a rulebook for asking poll questions?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)If you are unfamiliar with the concept of how questions in a poll may induce bias in the responses they get, I suggest you educate yourself on the subject matter before asking such inane questions.
Here's a starter.
http://www.people-press.org/methodology/questionnaire-design/question-wording/
Now, if your purpose is to test anti-Hillary attack ad messages, this poll is pretty good at that. If your purpose is to measure Clinton's overall popularity, it's a miserable failure.
Cosmic Kitten
(3,498 posts)Ohhhhh..."A group of major liberal donors"
Any names?
I wouldn't trust any unnamed "group of donors"
Why do you?
As to the methodology...
can't we just agree that ALL of these
political polls are BIASED?
Or just the ones you disagree with?
Any and all polls can be and probably are BIASED.
Would you hire a polling company that didn't
find the results you desired?
The MANY ways a poll can be BIASED basically
means any and ALL polls must be looked at with suspicion.
Bias can be created through:
the time of day calls are made.
The zip codes of where calls are made.
The weighting of samples.
And on and on and on...
Polling companies are BUSINESSES.
They want to attract CUSTOMERS.
Customers shop where they get what they want.
You don't like the poll in question, we get it.
It makes Hillary look...
but lets just stop pretending some political polls
are unbiased, ok?
They are all BIASED and serve to manipulate public perception.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Most try to get the answer right especially in predicting elections. Otherwise they lose business.
Cosmic Kitten
(3,498 posts)This is not an "ELECTION POLL".
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)in push polls. Why do you think that Romney started making statements about the poor? The Republicans are polling these issues too.
People have been patiently waiting for economic change. It has not come. The Republicans certainly won't vote for anything that really would bring change. Hillary won't either. We do not have a lot of choices.
Social Security is a HUGE issue as are schools. The American people want change in those areas too. Hillary goes the wrong direction on Social Security. The cap has not been raised as it should be. And when it comes to schools, the common core and horrible testing have to be changed a lot, but I have not heard where Hillary stands on these things. In fact, Hillary is not easily found when it comes to stands on the big issues to the American people. I don't see her as a candidate that will appeal to Americans at this time. She really is stuck with a lot of Bill's signatures wrapped around her neck. NAFTA? American lost jobs and are still losing jobs thanks to that huge albatross.
What questions would you ask to favor Clinton? I can't think of many. Maybe "Would you be more or less likely to vote for a candidate who loves her grand-daughter?" "Would you be more or less likely to vote for a candidate who stuck it out in a marriage with a man who had a sexual relationship with a younger woman and then lied about it?" "Maybe would you be more or less likely to vote for a woman who thought she had Indian heritage when she didn't?"
What questions would you ask to skew the poll toward Hillary? Something with the word Benghazi in it? Or something with the words women and children in it?
The poll reflects issues on a lot of Americans' minds. The question about genealogy does not.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)We should not privatize. Hillary was out of touch then, and she will be out of touch in 2016, and no effort to learn about what those "little people" out there are thinking will help bridge the gap that her entry into the upper, upper class has caused her to have.
Politicians like Hillary hang around with big donors. That's their bread and butter. They can't help it, but the don't know how the other 97% lives.
Elizabeth Warren is wealthy enough, but her life's work was studying the financial problems of the middle class and those in bankruptcy (by definition, those without the money to pay their bills, hence, the poor)>
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)Doubtless she has a similarly craven and servile relationship with the other financial gangsters. And don't forget about her BFF war criminal Henry Kissinger. Hell of a set of references there, isn't it.?
Cosmic Kitten
(3,498 posts)Can you give a few examples of
the "extremely slanted" questions?
Does this mean the poll is invalidated?
Are any political polls valid?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)that is what a push-poll, not a legit public opinion survey, 'asks'
Cosmic Kitten
(3,498 posts)What's wrong with the question?
If people don't care about Hillary's actions
then the poll will tell us what voters think.
Don't seen any reason why it's "not legitimate"?
If pointing out Hillary takes money from Wall st
is a liability then maybe it is Hillary shouldn't
take such money...
OR
Not be ashamed or act like it's an attack against her.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)about a candidate.
You may believe those statements are true. That is irrelevant to whether they're appropriate for a poll trying to measure public attitudes towards a candidate.
Cosmic Kitten
(3,498 posts)Making the point that a candidate is well paid by
and has supported the agenda of a special interest group
is not "rhetorical" if one wants to discern the values
of the voting public.
Maybe Hillary did the poll to estimate the damage
her positions have created for her upcoming campaign?
Maybe Hillary needs to know how to spin her positions
so that she can maintain her "populist" image?
Hillary has as much to gain from this poll as anyone.
It's just about the perspective you hold while viewing.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)and are trying to claim Hillary created this poll.
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/01/elizabeth-warren-poll-hillary-clinton-2016-election-114754.html
Cosmic Kitten
(3,498 posts)I just want to know who are the "major liberal donors" ?
We can all see that the linked article "says" what it says.
There is no reason to accept the unnamed "donors" at face value.
Only a fool takes an unnamed source/group at face value.
You are not that type of a fool, are you?
You seem very defensive of Hillary.
Are you a Hillary supporter?
Can't Hillary stand up for herself?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)about being a supporter of Warren?
You think that Clinton would run a push-poll against herself and then leak the results?
Cosmic Kitten
(3,498 posts)came to the Politico desk.
In fact there is no link to the PPP poll itself?
Is this the poll in question?
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2014/PPP_Release_National_13015.pdf
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)unsubstantiated. We don't know what the person said that gave Politico the poll said because Politico didn't quote him/her and didn't provide any substantiation that any of this is true.
"You think that Clinton would run a push-poll against herself and then leak the results? " Well it's certainly would not be unusual in politics. But we have no idea who paid for the poll.
Autumn
(45,107 posts)leveymg
(36,418 posts)Hillary is properly viewed as a leading Democratic supporter of Bush's plunge toward war in Iraq. As Secretary of State, she was the driving force toward the chaotic disintegration of Libya and the spread of heavily armed Islamist militants into Syria and Iraq.
Her statements about obliterating Iran simply scare the shit out of most of those who are aware of them.
She is the embodiment of the next World War, in many eyes, a topic the MSM and polling companies don't want to touch. That is the 800 pound gorilla looming over her candidacy.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)Response to Jackpine Radical (Original post)
Post removed
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)And those polls may be right. But it never seems to affect actual votes.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)(such as minimum wage increases) And win. While conservative policies (such as abortion restrictions) get on the ballot and lose.
Our politicians are failing us, not our people.
JI7
(89,252 posts)than to vote for a dem politicians who could help obama take away their guns.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)You don't get invited on TV if you're "crazy". And "crazy" means you are to the left of the DLC. On the right, I don't think we've reached where the DC media considers crazy.
That's used as a proxy for public opinion. It's a terrible proxy that doesn't reflect public opinion at all.
Mustellus
(328 posts)... is the platform that Republican candidates should run on.
I'd love to see Bernie Sanders, or Elizabeth Warren get the nomination.... but these are not vulnerabilities from the right... Just from the left.
Renew Deal
(81,861 posts)"When voters are asked whether her past support of deregulation of the big banks would make them more or less likely to vote for her, 19% say More Likely and 49% say Less Likely. Hillary has defended bonuses for bank managers in the bailed-out banks and when asked if they would be more or less likely to support a candidate who supported bank bonuses, 13% say More Likely and 57% say Less Likely. When told that Hillary has accepted speaking fees up to $200,000 per speech from Wall Street banks and has failed to demand accountability from banks for the 2008 financial collapse, 14% say theyd be More Likely to support such a candidate and 57% say Less Likely. When asked if they would be more or less likely to support a candidate for President who had supported NAFTA, as had the Clintons, 21% say More Likely and 51% say Less Likely. When asked if they would be more or less likely to support a candidate who supports loaning money to college students at the same low interest rates the U.S. loans money to banks, as Elizabeth Warren has, or a candidate like Hillary who has remained silent on this issue, 58% support low interest rates for students and 24% favor a candidate who has stayed silent about this."
Cosmic Kitten
(3,498 posts)DonViejo
(60,536 posts)Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/01/elizabeth-warren-poll-hillary-clinton-2016-election-114754.html#ixzz3Qccdv17Z
Cosmic Kitten
(3,498 posts)It just identifies "major donors"
Doesn't say much really.
DonViejo
(60,536 posts)I followed one of the links in the Politico article leading to some names that Politico appears to be suggesting, are funding that poll:
http://www.politico.com/story/2014/11/elizabeth-warren-liberal-donors-112888.html
I guess the only other way to find out would be to contact the draft Warren group and ask for the names of the donors. I don't know if fed election rules would require the draft Warren group to be specific about who donated for the poll but, that's the only other way I can think of for the information to become public.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Looks like a hatchet job to me. Am I wrong or does Politico have a thing against the Left?
C Moon
(12,213 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)asjr
(10,479 posts)Democratic regardless who our candidate is but this is outright propaganda. They read the riot act about Hillary Clinton and only miss telling us what color her broom is.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)....the questions asked in the poll and neglected (intentionally?) to give the exact questions asked.
The article could be given more credence if the author didn't force readers to search for the poll questions and actual results.
My response is the 45th or so in this discussion, and lacking the specifics it is about 44 more than it deserved.
Kablooie
(18,634 posts)Most of our societal problems, other than largely religious ones like abortion, are driven by the moneyed class grabbing everything for themselves at the expense of everyone else, including our descendants.
The careless gouging the earth for oil, engaging in wars that benefit no one but the instigators, the deterioration of our infrastructure, millions of jobs flying out of the country, denigration of clean energy alternatives, even the denial of climate change are all driving by wealthy interests preventing anything from decreasing their accumulation of wealth even if it destroys people's lives.
ellennelle
(614 posts)i don't know quite what is going on, but first, PPP is hardly a slouch outfit. go here to see their latest poll:
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2014/PPP_Release_National_13015.pdf
this poll is almost entirely about the republican bench; you have to scroll all the way down to the bottom to find anything on the dems. and those results sure don't show problems for hillary; she has 60% likelihood of support, and warren has 49%.
second, i cannot figure out what is going on with the alternet post, as the numbers there don't match the numbers on the PPP poll itself. that's a fail, for sure, but i don't know what to make of it, and cannot figure it out.
given the writer is 'staff,' might well have been a novice flunky who was looking at an old poll or something.
whatev'. in any case, best to investigate before you conflagrate.
dsc
(52,162 posts)but ran the poll they were paid to run, and it was a case of garbage in (loaded biased questions), garbage out (results that aren't accurate).
LiberalLovinLug
(14,174 posts)Maybe worse, because she has an even longer past cuddling up to multinationals and Wall Street.
That is that die in the wool Republicans will never vote for her. But she also will lose votes from the Democratic (I'm not even going to say "left" side of of the Democratic Party. If traditional Democrats were sick and tired of holding their noses to vote for the self-proclaimed "moderate Republican" in Obama, what new impetus is there to get out and vote for a further right Republican in Dem clothing? And of course Fox News will trumpet the exit numbers as ALL the opposition coming from one side, and "proving" that Americans are really all conservative right wing.
IMO Warren would be the perfect candidate because she could straddle in the opposite way. She'd have all the Democratic votes, plus that segment on the libertarian right that also thinks Wall Street and Government are too cosey, and are sick of the warmongering. And it also doesn't hurt that she is a former Republican who "saw the light".
George II
(67,782 posts)....in history, anyone striving for the Presidency would welcome that "problem"!
LiberalLovinLug
(14,174 posts)Because she has been around longer, and after 8 years of Obama folding his cards, left wing voters are reaching nose plugging fatigue. Enough to knock her out of first? Maybe, maybe not, but a few more Koch Bro photo-ops, or "we were broke" moments, and the liberal base may not be as enamored. Add to that the predictable behavior of the MSM to make it into a horse race, you'll have any "scandal" on Hillary front page, while they deify Teflon Jeb, until it actually IS a horse race.
George II
(67,782 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)we need the best possible information upon which to base them. It's all too easy to pump yourself up on wish-fulfilling delusions, and distorted information such as this article seeks to distribute is potentially destructive in its effects. As liberals, we both seek knowledge and try to increase the awareness of others about what we learn. Creating half-truths and unfounded claims is not what we are about.
I'm a populist Progressive (in the old Wisconsin LaFollette tradition), so my politics are obvious. The reported results warmed my cockles (whatever the hell cockles are).
Until certain individuals (to whom I am grateful) rubbed my nose in the actual nature of the poll and its questions.
As it turns out, the poll is, if not exactly a push poll, one in which certain messages are being tested for the reactions they elicit from the public. As I said in a post above, I have no objection to--would in fact encourage--the conducting of polls like this, but for specific research purposes such as testing messages and frames; NOT as fodder for deceptive propaganda.
I have no idea whom to point the finger at--I haven't seen a press release from the pollster--or the writer for grossly (perhaps ignorantly) mischaracterizing the nature of the poll, but it is utterly wrong to publish the results of what essentially appears to be a messaging test under the pretense that it is actually a measure of public opinion. It is the other side whose edifices are built on foundations of lies, not ours. Whatever short-term benefit may ensue from the (small) media splash is not worth the irreparable damage we do to the integrity of our own foundations.
fredamae
(4,458 posts)of Polling results are only as reliable as the person/group who pays for them is honest.
I'd suggest This is a rather blatant example of How Public Opinion (all of us) is manipulated/managed/steered toward the end goals they, not us, hold dear.
Be aware. Take care. Do your own research. Make an independent determination based upon Your opinion/experiences...not what we're told it is supposed to be.
Another really good reason to shut off, shut out, shut down MSM. I can't speak for anyone else..but I'm Already 2016 campaign Season Weary-since last summer when they only really focused on 2016, even then...with the mid-terms right around the corner. Nice distraction, eh? And It Worked...folks that really could have changed what DC Politics are to something better-stayed home.
And: "The reported results warmed my cockles (whatever the hell cockles are)." I don't know What they are..but I understand they are "in your heart"
fbc
(1,668 posts)Yeah, that's a worthless poll and the questions asked are ludicrously biased.
Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)Cosmic Kitten
(3,498 posts)Cosmic Kitten
(3,498 posts)Any link(s) to the "Warrenista" connection?
Or even a link to the original Polling data?
...is "Warrenista" a pejorative?
raindaddy
(1,370 posts)The fact is the Clinton's became very wealthy by kissing Wall Street ass at the expense of the middle class. And since the media hasn't done it's job it would be great to have a way to inform the public of the direction the leaders in the Democratic party have taken in the last thirty years. Can we please have a traditional Democrat who will run against her and expose her as someone who tends to protect the interests of Wall Street over the interests of the voters. My guess is "informed" Democrats aren't going to want to reward Hillary Clinton with the Presidency.
George II
(67,782 posts)wyldwolf
(43,867 posts)Would 'traditional Democrats" be the party circa 1828-1860 that favored republicanism, slavery, a weak federal government, states' rights, agrarian interests (especially Southern planters) and strict adherence to the Constitution?
Or the Democratic party of the late 1800s like the pro-business Bourbon Democrats or the 'solid south' racist Democrats?
The Agrarian Democrats of the early 1900s that put Woodrow Wilson in power?
The FDR coalition of 1932 - 1968?
The 'New Left' influenced Democrats of the late 60s and 70s?
The 'New' Democrats of the 1980s - present?
The 'progressive' movement?
All these groups were/are distinct. Which are 'traditional?' I don't expect an answer from the 'more liberal than thou' crowd.
raindaddy
(1,370 posts)Would be a pre-Reagan era, pre-third way Democrat, who favored, labor over corporate interests and middle and low income Americans over the banking industry.
I don't believe in the notion that just because the Republican party shifted to the extreme right and kicked the moderates to the curb that the Democratic party becomes their new home.
Without the "traditional" populist ideology the Democratic party becomes an untethered party with undefined ideals that a growing number of people can no longer relate to. Hence less than a third of the public now consider themselves Democrats at a time when traditional Democrats should be kicking ass.
wyldwolf
(43,867 posts)raindaddy
(1,370 posts)I consider the time priod of Roosevelt through LBJ to be long enough to establish a tradition of populism.
wyldwolf
(43,867 posts)Other periods in the party's history have lasted at least as long. Some periods longer.
This whole hoo-hoo 'progressives' push about 'real Democrats' and 'traditional Democrats' is a joke.
raindaddy
(1,370 posts)But if the Democratic Party has officially strayed from the populist platform they continue to campaign on at the very least they should make it official and announce a new era of support for the interests of Wall Street and global corporations. And those who haven't already moved on can stop fooling fooling themselves into believing promises and lies around election time.
William769
(55,147 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)No sale.
TheNutcracker
(2,104 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)No more dynasts. No more groveling tools of Wall $treet.
No more Turd Way bullshit, period.
Warren and/or Sanders 2016.
wyldwolf
(43,867 posts)ChiciB1
(15,435 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)As soon as an opponent goes after The Next One with those questions, she'll crater. And Hillary's not stupid, she knows it.
kelliekat44
(7,759 posts)Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Ignoring security needs of the US should be a priority of a commander in chief, what is the use of having regulations on Wall Street if our country is getting terrorized.
Beacool
(30,250 posts)Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)Among other problems with this poll, discussed at length by me & others in the earlier posts.
TheNutcracker
(2,104 posts)woo me with science
(32,139 posts)This nation cannot AFFORD another lying, looting, warmongering corporatist.
She is a Third Way menace to democracy. If corporate Democrats succeed in ramming her down our throats as the Dem candidate in 2016, they will have ensured that the corporate agenda continues no matter which candidate wins.
Corporate Republicans and the corporate Third Way are not just another flavor of politician within an essentially functioning representative government. They are building perpetual war, a police and surveillance state, and using our own laws and intelligence agencies to empower corporations over the will of the American people to dismantle democracy itself.
Hillary Clinton's leading role in drafting the TPP
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101667554
Hillary Clinton and Trade Deals: That Giant Sucking Sound
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016101761
Hillary Clinton Cheerleads for Biotech and GMOs
http://www.democraticunderground.com/112772326
Dissecting Hillary Clinton's Neocon Talking Points - Atlantic Interview
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017209519
NYTimes notices Hillary's natural affinity toward the neocons.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025205645
Hillary Clinton, the unrepentant hawk
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024876898
More from Hillary Clinton's State Department: The fascistic TISA (Trade in Services Agreement)
http://m.thenation.com/blog/180572-grassroots-labor-uprising-your-bank
How Hillary Clinton's State Department sold fracking to the world
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251376647
Hillary Clinton Sides with NSA over Snowden Disclosures
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101695441
On the NSA, Hillary Clinton Is Either a Fool or a Liar
http://m.thenation.com/article/180564-nsa-hillary-clinton-either-fool-or-liar
Corporate Warfare: Hillary Clinton admits role in Honduran coup aftermath
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025601610#post29
The Bill and Hillary Clinton Money Machine Taps Corporate Cash
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025189257
Hillary's Privatization Plan: TISA kept more secret than the TPP
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014829628
Hillary Clinton criticizes Obama's foreign policy 'failure'; strongly defends Israel
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014867136
Some of Hillary Clinton's statements on Social Security.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024379279
Hillary Clinton's GOLDMAN SACHS PROBLEM.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025049343
Ring of Fire: Hillary Clinton - The Perfect Republican Candidate
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017209285
How Americans Need Answers From Hillary Clinton On TPP, KXL, Wall St & More
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017181611
Hillary Clinton Left Out By Liberal Donor Club
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025809071
Why Wall Street Loves Hillary
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016106575
Hillary Clinton: Neocon-lite
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101684986
Interactive graphic of Hillary Clinton's connections to the Forbes top 400 (Follow link in post)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025824981#post9