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Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 12:51 PM Feb 2015

New Poll Reveals Serious Liabilities for Hillary

Last edited Mon Feb 2, 2015, 02:31 PM - Edit history (1)

I hadn't seen this posted. Please forgive if a dup.

[font color=red]
It has been brought to my attention that this poll was commissioned by Warrenistas, and that some of the items have a sort of push-poll or attack-testing flavor. So proceed with caution.[/font]

A new national poll has just been released and it should cause supporters of Hillary Clinton to be very concerned about the popularity of Clinton’s ideas and her ability to win the Presidency. The poll was completed January 20-21, 2014 by Public Policy Polling, which, in the November 2014 elections, was the country’s most accurate pollster.

Hillary long has promoted the interests of Wall Street, as did Bill, and Bill’s Presidency delivered big-time for them, deregulating banks, deregulating the telecom industry and passing NAFTA. Those gifts to the financial industry have brought the Clintons and the Clinton Foundation millions from Wall Street, but it turns out this comes at a serious price to Mrs. Clinton: The public doesn’t like it. When voters are asked whether her past support of deregulation of the big banks would make them more or less likely to vote for her, 19% say More Likely and 49% say Less Likely. Hillary has defended bonuses for bank managers in the bailed-out banks and when asked if they would be more or less likely to support a candidate who supported bank bonuses, 13% say More Likely and 57% say Less Likely. When told that Hillary has accepted speaking fees up to $200,000 per speech from Wall Street banks and has failed to demand accountability from banks for the 2008 financial collapse, 14% say they’d be More Likely to support such a candidate and 57% say Less Likely. When asked if they would be more or less likely to support a candidate for President who had supported NAFTA, as had the Clintons, 21% say More Likely and 51% say Less Likely. When asked if they would be more or less likely to support a candidate who supports loaning money to college students at the same low interest rates the U.S. loans money to banks, as Elizabeth Warren has, or a candidate like Hillary who has remained silent on this issue, 58% support low interest rates for students and 24% favor a candidate who has stayed silent about this.

Other subjects polled almost as badly for Mrs. Clinton. When asked if it’s a good thing to keep electing Presidents from the same family, 20% say it is a good thing and 46% say it’s better to have a fresher face in the White House. When asked if Hillary Clinton should be a candidate for the Democratic Presidential nomination in 2016, 37% say Yes and 43% say No. When asked, “Some people say Hillary Clinton is a strong leader with a lot of great experience, and that she would bring the right balance of views to the Presidency, while others think she is too beholden to special interests like Wall Street and defense contractors,” 36% say she would bring the right balance of views to the Presidency, while 48% say “Clinton is too beholden to wealthy special interests.” When asked if Hillary as the Democratic candidate for President would make them more or less likely to support Democratic candidates for other offices, only 25% say More Likely and 40% say Less Likely. I don’t recall ever seeing a poll showing that a Presidential candidate would drag the ticket down by 15 points and I certainly hope all Democratic office holders who will be running for re-election in 2016 and donors who are working to take back the Senate and House from Republican control pay attention to that finding!


By contrast, Elizabeth Warren’s positions on these important economic issues polled extremely well with voters. When asked, “U.S. Senator Elizabeth Warren has said that special interests like Wall Street have rigged the system in their favor, while working and middle class wages have stagnated,” 49% say they would be More Likely to support a candidate “who wanted to bring the big banks under control,” while only 23% disagreed. When asked if they would be more or less likely to support a candidate who has criticized bank bonuses, as had Elizabeth Warren, 54% say More Likely and 20% say Less Likely. When asked if they would be more or less likely to support a candidate for President, like Elizabeth Warren, who thinks Wall Street should be held accountable for the financial speculation, which contributed to the collapse of the economy, 59% say More Likely and only 16% say Less Likely.

With the collapse of the middle class, the American public increasingly is turning populist, but tone-deaf Hillary is still preaching 1990s values and economic policies, which are not likely to play well in 2016. If she tries to change stripes now, she risks the most fatal of all political afflictions: Inauthenticity.


http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/new-national-poll-reveals-serious-liabilities-hillary?akid=12744.187861.zCmQfy&rd=1&src=newsletter1031225&t=11
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New Poll Reveals Serious Liabilities for Hillary (Original Post) Jackpine Radical Feb 2015 OP
Indeed. CaliforniaPeggy Feb 2015 #1
Now what, indeed, my dear Peggy. Jackpine Radical Feb 2015 #3
I like Warren, QuestionAlways Feb 2015 #121
Interesting but elleng Feb 2015 #2
Actually, I think the "2014" date in the text is a typo & should be 2015. Jackpine Radical Feb 2015 #7
Thanks. That's a different story! elleng Feb 2015 #11
Not so sure fredamae Feb 2015 #66
I'm realizing a LOT that's funny about this poll. See my Post 71 for my current view. Jackpine Radical Feb 2015 #76
The public has always been populist. zeemike Feb 2015 #39
Interesting reading. Thanks for posting. Should give heart to the Sanders KingCharlemagne Feb 2015 #4
Unless, of course, there is the least bit of consistency ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2015 #27
That's a good point about how a lot of people come to the interent to seek out KingCharlemagne Feb 2015 #29
Agreed, on both points ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2015 #34
Awesome. ZombieHorde Feb 2015 #32
I'm so glad my post meets your approval! n/t 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2015 #49
Not half as glad as I am. nt ZombieHorde Feb 2015 #122
Building a better mousetrap ;~/ Cosmic Kitten Feb 2015 #55
I agree ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2015 #61
Where do we go from here? Autumn Feb 2015 #5
Change course 90 degrees to port Jackpine Radical Feb 2015 #8
If you envision the ship of state moving in the wrong direction... brooklynite Feb 2015 #36
Make that 180 degrees Vincardog Feb 2015 #43
At this point, I'll settle for just turning away from where we're going. Jackpine Radical Feb 2015 #100
Paging Bernie! Paging Bernie Sanders! HappyMe Feb 2015 #6
Just don't do it at 3 am. Jackpine Radical Feb 2015 #9
lol! HappyMe Feb 2015 #10
YES! PAGING B E R N I E S A N D E R S ! TheNutcracker Feb 2015 #17
This is a push poll/test of attack themes, not a legitimate measure of public opinion geek tragedy Feb 2015 #12
My thoughts too... and in contrast to other electoral polls. n/t Adrahil Feb 2015 #13
"Given that it is possible that Hillary Clinton is a geek tragedy Feb 2015 #18
LOL ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2015 #28
Have to wait for what 2016 looks like. (Werewolf reminded me how Julian Bond said BO was to appalachiablue Feb 2015 #35
What I thought also. I am fairly neutral on Hillary but she is the candidate to beat. yellowcanine Feb 2015 #15
Bullshit. Jackpine Radical Feb 2015 #20
PPP is a good firm. This is a meaningless poll. geek tragedy Feb 2015 #21
You're basing that judgment on a few selected items Jackpine Radical Feb 2015 #22
It was the Draft Warren people who paid for it. geek tragedy Feb 2015 #23
I hadn't seen that Politico story. Jackpine Radical Feb 2015 #38
good onya. I know you're not the type to peddle bullshit nt geek tragedy Feb 2015 #44
Thanks. Jackpine Radical Feb 2015 #45
In your defense the Politico article is not very well written at best and biased at worse. rhett o rick Feb 2015 #115
It would certainly help to have some accurate information Jackpine Radical Feb 2015 #117
The poll is most likely a piece of trash. That's not the main question. Politico, rhett o rick Feb 2015 #120
What is your expertise in polling? Cosmic Kitten Feb 2015 #63
Polls should not make statements about candidates as part of the questioning. geek tragedy Feb 2015 #64
You seem to be whining? Cosmic Kitten Feb 2015 #68
Here's the evidence it was from Warrenistas, which you will likely ignore geek tragedy Feb 2015 #70
Hmmm? Basically ALL polls are "suspect" Cosmic Kitten Feb 2015 #81
Well, no. Not every firm is like Rasmussen. geek tragedy Feb 2015 #82
NOT EVERY... broad brush stroke? Cosmic Kitten Feb 2015 #88
These are the push poll questions the Republicans will ask, and they won't just ask them JDPriestly Feb 2015 #30
This is where Hillary stood on Raising-the-Cap in 2008: bvar22 Feb 2015 #96
Thanks. I remember that moment in the debates. We should raise the cap. JDPriestly Feb 2015 #98
I got that vibe too, but still, HRC appears to be very friendly toward the banks and Wall Street. nt ZombieHorde Feb 2015 #33
She's a wholly-owned subsidiary of Goldman. hifiguy Feb 2015 #91
How can you identify a "push-poll"? Cosmic Kitten Feb 2015 #60
the OP quotes several such slanted questions. geek tragedy Feb 2015 #62
Looks like simple facts? Cosmic Kitten Feb 2015 #65
That rhetoric belongs in a political campaign, NOT a poll trying to measure public opinion geek tragedy Feb 2015 #67
Is it rhetoric to ask pointed questions? Cosmic Kitten Feb 2015 #69
LMAO. You can't even admit this crap poll was commissioned by the Hillary Haters geek tragedy Feb 2015 #74
Admit to what exactly? Cosmic Kitten Feb 2015 #84
so you think the person who gave this survey to politico lied geek tragedy Feb 2015 #87
WE don't know who or why or how the survey... Cosmic Kitten Feb 2015 #89
There's a link to the poll at the Politico story geek tragedy Feb 2015 #92
The fact that someone told Politico that rich Sen Warren donors funded the poll is rhett o rick Feb 2015 #116
It does show how opinions change about a politicians when a voter is informed about the politician. Autumn Feb 2015 #105
And this covers just domestic issues. Her negatives on her foreign policy record are far worse. leveymg Feb 2015 #14
ROTFLMFAO DemocratSinceBirth Feb 2015 #16
Post removed Post removed Feb 2015 #19
Nope, not concerned. This is like all those polls that say that folks prefer progressive policies. stevenleser Feb 2015 #24
Except when those policies get on the ballot jeff47 Feb 2015 #52
that's because of things like guns . it's "safer" to vote on a specific issue such as minimum wage JI7 Feb 2015 #77
I think it's more about appealing to the DC media jeff47 Feb 2015 #79
So regulating Wall Street, taxing the rich, and stopping TPP.... Mustellus Feb 2015 #25
This is a push poll Renew Deal Feb 2015 #26
Do you have a link to who commissioned the survey? Cosmic Kitten Feb 2015 #73
Here,... DonViejo Feb 2015 #83
I don't see any named "donors"? Cosmic Kitten Feb 2015 #85
Well, that's the best I can do for ya, but.... DonViejo Feb 2015 #93
The article is some of the worst reporting jobs I've seen. They substantiate nothing. rhett o rick Feb 2015 #118
Next: Romney's back in C Moon Feb 2015 #31
I would like to see the actual questions and also see if they were "loaded" (i.e., biased) George II Feb 2015 #37
Exactly. Jackpine Radical Feb 2015 #46
This article is stinking my atmosphere. I will vote asjr Feb 2015 #40
So, what parts of the article are inaccurate? [n/t] Maedhros Feb 2015 #41
It's impossible to say what parts are inaccurate since the writer has only paraphrased.... George II Feb 2015 #50
Poll or no poll, I will vote for the candidate that pushes reigning in Wall Street the most. Kablooie Feb 2015 #42
PEOPLE PEOPLE PEOPLE, SETTLE DOWN ellennelle Feb 2015 #47
they are not a slouch outfit dsc Feb 2015 #103
She has the same problem as Obama LiberalLovinLug Feb 2015 #48
Considering Obama won BOTH of his Presidential elections by the two largest popular vote counts.... George II Feb 2015 #51
The "problem" is worse though with her LiberalLovinLug Feb 2015 #108
Hillary Clinton Koch Brothers photo-ops? Really? When? Where? George II Feb 2015 #114
Great job with the edit - thanks! George II Feb 2015 #53
Whatever we do, whatever decisions we make, Jackpine Radical Feb 2015 #71
Polls and apparently Reports fredamae Feb 2015 #86
I favor progressives over wall street lackeys as much as the next guy but... fbc Feb 2015 #54
Push poll by anti-Hillary forces. Dawson Leery Feb 2015 #56
How can you identify a "push-poll"? Cosmic Kitten Feb 2015 #58
this poll was commissioned by Warrenistas??? Cosmic Kitten Feb 2015 #57
It certainly offers a lot of specifics for anyone to the left of her that decides to run. raindaddy Feb 2015 #59
What is a "traditional" Democrat? George II Feb 2015 #72
Take your pick wyldwolf Feb 2015 #95
A traditional Democrat simply put... raindaddy Feb 2015 #97
What makes that 'traditional?' wyldwolf Feb 2015 #101
I guess it's a matter of opinion but...... raindaddy Feb 2015 #107
roughly 38 years wyldwolf Feb 2015 #112
I think most people relate to modern history... raindaddy Feb 2015 #113
Actually this Poll Reveals Serious Liabilities for the idiots that commissioned it. nt William769 Feb 2015 #75
Her liabilities are the baggage she's accumulated and her failed attempts to deodorize it. Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2015 #78
thanks for the edit. but even 'warrenistas' have a right to do polling and they all have an angel. TheNutcracker Feb 2015 #80
Amen to every word. hifiguy Feb 2015 #90
Funny how some get their hopes up with push polls like this, part of which was done ONLINE wyldwolf Feb 2015 #94
I'm NOT A Hillary Fan, Can't Read This Right Now, Posting To Return... n/t ChiciB1 Feb 2015 #99
Exactly why Hillary is kaput if an FDR Democrat enters the race MannyGoldstein Feb 2015 #102
Well, maybe Hillary can use this poll to her advantage in preparing for running. nt kelliekat44 Feb 2015 #104
Perhaps the poll should have indicated where the candidates poll on national security. Thinkingabout Feb 2015 #106
This poll is over a year old. Beacool Feb 2015 #109
That now appears to be the case. Jackpine Radical Feb 2015 #110
I'll bet the numbers favor Warren even more a year later, especially after taking on congress! TheNutcracker Feb 2015 #119
Poll or no poll, her liability is that her agenda is MALIGNANT. woo me with science Feb 2015 #111

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
3. Now what, indeed, my dear Peggy.
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 01:01 PM
Feb 2015

How 'bout we find some charismatic candidate who actually espouses our values and shows evidence of caring for the conditions of the common people, and figuring our how to induce that person to run?

Not that I have anyone in mind, of course--but I will say that one of my principles is to seriously doubt the motives of anyone who really wants the job, based merely on the fact that they actually want it.

It would follow from that that the only acceptable type of candidate is one you practically have to coerce into running.

elleng

(130,973 posts)
2. Interesting but
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 12:57 PM
Feb 2015

that poll's a year old, and we know what a year (a day/a week/a month) means in politics.

I do HOPE that the public is turning 'populist,' and in fact am hoping for a Greece-like remake of us (and the world.) Discussed on this thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6166775

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
7. Actually, I think the "2014" date in the text is a typo & should be 2015.
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 01:06 PM
Feb 2015

The article itself is dated 2/1/15, so I believe that this is data from January 20-21, 2015.

elleng

(130,973 posts)
11. Thanks. That's a different story!
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 01:11 PM
Feb 2015

and makes my earlier reference to this thread MORE relevant:


With Syriza’s Victory, the Anti-Austerity Movement is Going Mainstream.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6166775

fredamae

(4,458 posts)
66. Not so sure
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 04:09 PM
Feb 2015

Look on their site. I don't find this poll in 2015

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/

And researching their archives...I can't find it for Jan of 2014
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/

on the other hand-AlterNet says it was Completed Jan 20-21, 2014...but why wait a year to release the findings...a Lot has changed; wouldn't that make these findings moot?
Or, where did I miss in my research?

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
39. The public has always been populist.
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 02:28 PM
Feb 2015

It is the politicians that are not.
And that is why voter turnout is low...just ask them why they don't vote.

 

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)
4. Interesting reading. Thanks for posting. Should give heart to the Sanders
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 01:03 PM
Feb 2015

supporters, I would think, as it shows his message may play on fertile ground.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
27. Unless, of course, there is the least bit of consistency ...
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 01:48 PM
Feb 2015

Not, just, a couple of weeks ago ... when HRC polling indicated strong support ... we were told "polling numbers are meaningless" and only serve "to confirm, not inform".

I, happen to agree with both of the points, as the vast majority of the public have not a clue as to how to interpret polling results (or to assess the validity of any particular poll); but, it is the clear rule: polling results that I disagree with are to be ignored; whereas, polling results that I agree with, are to be the touchstone of reality.

 

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)
29. That's a good point about how a lot of people come to the interent to seek out
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 01:56 PM
Feb 2015

validation for positions they already hold (aka: "confirmation bias&quot .

I think a head-to-head matchup between Sanders and HRC would be the best thing for the Democratic Party since at least 2008 and maybe have the prospect of being as significant as the Lincoln-Douglas debates in terms of gravitas, when compared to the fascists' looming spectacle. I could see a civil but spirited debate between Sanders and HRC vastly expanding the ranks of the party and placing the Republicans once and for all into the "dustbin of history" where they've belonged, imo, since at least 1981, if not 1933.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
34. Agreed, on both points ...
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 02:05 PM
Feb 2015

However, I would love that head to head to include Senator Warren ... and go beyond merely economic issues.

Cosmic Kitten

(3,498 posts)
55. Building a better mousetrap ;~/
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 03:45 PM
Feb 2015

So rather than allow or promote people
subscribing to dubious poll results,
why not expose the polls for what they represent?

The continued defense and misuse of polling data
should be shouted down for the frauds they perpetuate.

Polling as is currently employed does not serve
the public interest and does damage to the democratic process.

Autumn

(45,107 posts)
5. Where do we go from here?
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 01:05 PM
Feb 2015

Our economic policies are not helping and a continuation of them is the last thing we need and Hillary will be a continuation.

brooklynite

(94,596 posts)
36. If you envision the ship of state moving in the wrong direction...
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 02:11 PM
Feb 2015

...then turning left means you're going sideways.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
12. This is a push poll/test of attack themes, not a legitimate measure of public opinion
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 01:12 PM
Feb 2015

The questions are by design extremely slanted against Clinton and in favor of Warren.

The people paying for the poll wanted one that had bad numbers for Team Clinton, so they designed a poll to give them what they wanted.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
18. "Given that it is possible that Hillary Clinton is a
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 01:24 PM
Feb 2015

werewolf, does that make you more or less likely to support her?"

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
28. LOL ...
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 01:54 PM
Feb 2015
Given that {Insert Non-HRC Candidate here} has yet to speak publically on {Insert non-economic issue here}, does that make you more or less likely to support her/him?


"Wait ... Foul! This is clearly a push poll!"

appalachiablue

(41,145 posts)
35. Have to wait for what 2016 looks like. (Werewolf reminded me how Julian Bond said BO was to
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 02:08 PM
Feb 2015

Repugs what the moon is to werewolves. Great comment).

yellowcanine

(35,699 posts)
15. What I thought also. I am fairly neutral on Hillary but she is the candidate to beat.
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 01:19 PM
Feb 2015

I don't think Elizabeth Warren is going to run but if she does I am ready to hear her make the case for why she would be a good President.

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
20. Bullshit.
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 01:27 PM
Feb 2015
PPP nailed it
27
Comments (54) By CHARLES MAHTESIAN | 11/7/12 4:05 PM EST

The Democratic automated polling firm Public Policy Polling, which took flak all year long from Republicans complaining about its partisan bias, had a very, very good Election Day.

In every swing state, its final presidential polls were validated Tuesday night as PPP reported the correct winner in all 9 battlegrounds and in the 3 other states (Michigan, Minnesota, and Pennsylvania) that the Romney campaign feinted toward.

In its final state polls before the election, PPP had President Obama ahead in every battleground state except North Carolina — where it reported a statistical tie with Romney at 49.4 and Obama at 49.2. And that’s very close to how it all played out.

While more than a few firms picked the right winners, PPP also nailed the exact result — at the moment, at least — in Florida, 50-49. And in most cases it was never more than a point or two off each candidate’s performance.

A Fordham University report released Wednesday ranked the firm first among 28 organizations for the accuracy of its final, national preelection estimates.


http://www.politico.com/blogs/charlie-mahtesian/2012/11/ppp-nailed-it-148911.html
 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
21. PPP is a good firm. This is a meaningless poll.
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 01:31 PM
Feb 2015

Go ahead and read the "questions" they posed about Clinton-they are all attacks on Clinton. The Warren "questions" are full of positive statements about her.

That makes the results hopelessly biased, because the poll questions themselves were hopelessly biased.

No polling firm on the planet could conduct this poll and claim it was a measure of actual voter sentiment.

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
22. You're basing that judgment on a few selected items
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 01:35 PM
Feb 2015

reported in the article. Unless you have the whole poll, complete with the administration manual, you can't tell a lot about what it actually contains.

And I know of no reason to think that PPP conducts push polls.

As to the accuracy of their results, I absolutely agree that results this far out may not be stable; on the other hand, they are worth attending to.

I know they poll for Kos, but I don't know who paid for this poll. That would be very interesting to know.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
23. It was the Draft Warren people who paid for it.
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 01:42 PM
Feb 2015
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/01/elizabeth-warren-poll-hillary-clinton-2016-election-114754.html

Any statements about a candidate that go beyond name and party affiliation are never okay in legit public opinion surveys. Once you start rattling off "Hillary Clinton has a picture of Jamie Dimon on her dresser" types of questions, you stop measuring what voters will do and what they think--instead you're measuring their reaction to your statements about the candidate.

This is propaganda and attack-testing. Even if one agrees with it.

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
38. I hadn't seen that Politico story.
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 02:27 PM
Feb 2015

I'll only say that the motivations behind the poll are not necessarily what I thought they were when I posted it, and I would at least post cautions with it if I were to do that again. i'm editing the OP.

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
45. Thanks.
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 03:15 PM
Feb 2015

In re-examining what happened here, I see that I was the victim of my own confirmatory bias. That is, the poll presented information that supported my position, and that blinded me to some rather obvious methodological problems. I really try to fight that in myself, but sometimes I fail in some degree or another.

There is an underlying reality, as confirmed in actual electoral referendum results, that the public is much more in favor of individual progressive proposals (min. wage, pot, etc.) than their political spectrum self-labeling would indicate. I think that knowledge set me up to be less critical of the poll than I would like to think is my custom.


We do need to operate on the basis of good information, and I don't at all oppose conducting polls like this--sort of political marketing research. However, the results of these exercises do not reflect actual voting behavior, have no predictive power, and should not be presented to the public as reliable information in that respect. For any one of those questions, there is probably a way to frame it so as to get the opposite response from the respondent. The issue being tested is how to frame the issue to get a desired response, and is not even an appropriate methodology for eliciting quantitative opinion data.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
115. In your defense the Politico article is not very well written at best and biased at worse.
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 11:27 PM
Feb 2015

I won't argue that the poll was a good poll but don't judge it by that Politico article.

A group of major liberal donors who want Elizabeth Warren to run for president have paid for a poll intended to show that Hillary Clinton does not excite the Democratic base and would be vulnerable in a 2016 general election.


The poll was provided to POLITICO by one of the donors who funded it, who asked to remain anonymous.


A cadre of rich donors and some in organized labor view Clinton as too close to Wall Street or too hawkish,


"A group of major donors who want Elizabeth Warren to run..." Really, who is this undefined group of donors and how does Politico know what they want? Who is the mysterious person that gave Politico the poll and did he/she say that he was a Sen Warren supporter? And who is this "cadre of rich donors"? None of these statements have been authenticated. This is journalism today.

I won't support the poll because I am not a fan of polls and this poll could have been initiated by anyone.

And isn't the word, "Warrenistas" pejorative?

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
117. It would certainly help to have some accurate information
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 11:36 PM
Feb 2015

on what this poll is all about, what its methodology was, text of the individual questions, etc.

As for "Warrenista," it was meant as a harmless gibe from someone flying a Warren banner.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
120. The poll is most likely a piece of trash. That's not the main question. Politico,
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 11:45 PM
Feb 2015

not know for being friendly to the Left, appears to be trying to blame Warren supporters. That's a serious accusation without some proof. They offer nothing but crap in the article. It may have been Warren supporters, or Respublicans, or even Clinton supporters who would give it to Politico with the frame up of Warren supporters. The point is we don't know from what we've seen.

I have a hunch that "Warrenista" will be used as a pejorative if it isn't already. Not blaming you or your use.

Cosmic Kitten

(3,498 posts)
63. What is your expertise in polling?
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 04:03 PM
Feb 2015

Apparently you have some special knowledge
about polling and date crunching?

No polling firm on the planet could conduct this poll and claim it was a measure of actual voter sentiment.


How can we prevent being deceived by future polls?
 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
64. Polls should not make statements about candidates as part of the questioning.
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 04:07 PM
Feb 2015

Let's put it this way:

If someone asked people "Elizabeth Warren supports abortion-on-demand, increasing taxes on hardworking Americans, and has been accused of lying about her own ancestry. Does this make you more likely or less likely to support her?"

I suspect the anti-Hillary folks would suddenly pick up on how push-polling works if the shoe were on the other foot.

Cosmic Kitten

(3,498 posts)
68. You seem to be whining?
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 04:11 PM
Feb 2015

Havn't seen any evidence this poll
was conducted by the "Warrenistas".

If the questions are accurate reflections
of a candidates positions or actions why
aren't they "fair game"?

Just because a truth is unflattering
doesn't make it an invalid point for polling.

Do you have a rulebook for asking poll questions?

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
70. Here's the evidence it was from Warrenistas, which you will likely ignore
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 04:17 PM
Feb 2015
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/01/elizabeth-warren-poll-hillary-clinton-2016-election-114754.html

A group of major liberal donors who want Elizabeth Warren to run for president have paid for a poll intended to show that Hillary Clinton does not excite the Democratic base and would be vulnerable in a 2016 general election.


If you are unfamiliar with the concept of how questions in a poll may induce bias in the responses they get, I suggest you educate yourself on the subject matter before asking such inane questions.

Here's a starter.

http://www.people-press.org/methodology/questionnaire-design/question-wording/

Similarly, it is important to consider whether certain words may be viewed as biased or potentially offensive to some respondents, as well as the emotional reaction that some words may provoke. For example, in a 2005 Pew Research survey, 51% of respondents said they favored “making it legal for doctors to give terminally ill patients the means to end their lives” but only 44% said they favored “making it legal for doctors to assist terminally ill patients in committing suicide.” Although both versions of the question are asking about the same thing, the reaction of respondents was different. In another example, respondents have reacted differently to questions using the word “welfare” as opposed to the more generic “assistance to the poor.” Several experiments have shown that there is much greater public support for expanding “assistance to the poor” than for expanding “welfare.”


Now, if your purpose is to test anti-Hillary attack ad messages, this poll is pretty good at that. If your purpose is to measure Clinton's overall popularity, it's a miserable failure.

Cosmic Kitten

(3,498 posts)
81. Hmmm? Basically ALL polls are "suspect"
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 04:33 PM
Feb 2015

Ohhhhh..."A group of major liberal donors"
Any names?
I wouldn't trust any unnamed "group of donors"
Why do you?

As to the methodology...
can't we just agree that ALL of these
political polls are BIASED?
Or just the ones you disagree with?

Any and all polls can be and probably are BIASED.
Would you hire a polling company that didn't
find the results you desired?

The MANY ways a poll can be BIASED basically
means any and ALL polls must be looked at with suspicion.

Bias can be created through:
the time of day calls are made.
The zip codes of where calls are made.
The weighting of samples.
And on and on and on...

Polling companies are BUSINESSES.
They want to attract CUSTOMERS.
Customers shop where they get what they want.

You don't like the poll in question, we get it.
It makes Hillary look...
but lets just stop pretending some political polls
are unbiased, ok?
They are all BIASED and serve to manipulate public perception.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
82. Well, no. Not every firm is like Rasmussen.
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 04:35 PM
Feb 2015

Most try to get the answer right especially in predicting elections. Otherwise they lose business.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
30. These are the push poll questions the Republicans will ask, and they won't just ask them
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 01:58 PM
Feb 2015

in push polls. Why do you think that Romney started making statements about the poor? The Republicans are polling these issues too.

People have been patiently waiting for economic change. It has not come. The Republicans certainly won't vote for anything that really would bring change. Hillary won't either. We do not have a lot of choices.

Social Security is a HUGE issue as are schools. The American people want change in those areas too. Hillary goes the wrong direction on Social Security. The cap has not been raised as it should be. And when it comes to schools, the common core and horrible testing have to be changed a lot, but I have not heard where Hillary stands on these things. In fact, Hillary is not easily found when it comes to stands on the big issues to the American people. I don't see her as a candidate that will appeal to Americans at this time. She really is stuck with a lot of Bill's signatures wrapped around her neck. NAFTA? American lost jobs and are still losing jobs thanks to that huge albatross.

What questions would you ask to favor Clinton? I can't think of many. Maybe "Would you be more or less likely to vote for a candidate who loves her grand-daughter?" "Would you be more or less likely to vote for a candidate who stuck it out in a marriage with a man who had a sexual relationship with a younger woman and then lied about it?" "Maybe would you be more or less likely to vote for a woman who thought she had Indian heritage when she didn't?"

What questions would you ask to skew the poll toward Hillary? Something with the word Benghazi in it? Or something with the words women and children in it?

The poll reflects issues on a lot of Americans' minds. The question about genealogy does not.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
98. Thanks. I remember that moment in the debates. We should raise the cap.
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 05:49 PM
Feb 2015

We should not privatize. Hillary was out of touch then, and she will be out of touch in 2016, and no effort to learn about what those "little people" out there are thinking will help bridge the gap that her entry into the upper, upper class has caused her to have.

Politicians like Hillary hang around with big donors. That's their bread and butter. They can't help it, but the don't know how the other 97% lives.

Elizabeth Warren is wealthy enough, but her life's work was studying the financial problems of the middle class and those in bankruptcy (by definition, those without the money to pay their bills, hence, the poor)>

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
91. She's a wholly-owned subsidiary of Goldman.
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 04:50 PM
Feb 2015

Doubtless she has a similarly craven and servile relationship with the other financial gangsters. And don't forget about her BFF war criminal Henry Kissinger. Hell of a set of references there, isn't it.?

Cosmic Kitten

(3,498 posts)
60. How can you identify a "push-poll"?
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 03:59 PM
Feb 2015

Can you give a few examples of
the "extremely slanted" questions?

Does this mean the poll is invalidated?
Are any political polls valid?

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
62. the OP quotes several such slanted questions.
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 04:03 PM
Feb 2015
When told that Hillary has accepted speaking fees up to $200,000 per speech from Wall Street banks and has failed to demand accountability from banks for the 2008 financial collapse, 14% say they’d be More Likely to support such a candidate and 57% say Less Likely.


that is what a push-poll, not a legit public opinion survey, 'asks'

Cosmic Kitten

(3,498 posts)
65. Looks like simple facts?
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 04:08 PM
Feb 2015

What's wrong with the question?

If people don't care about Hillary's actions
then the poll will tell us what voters think.
Don't seen any reason why it's "not legitimate"?

If pointing out Hillary takes money from Wall st
is a liability then maybe it is Hillary shouldn't
take such money...

OR

Not be ashamed or act like it's an attack against her.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
67. That rhetoric belongs in a political campaign, NOT a poll trying to measure public opinion
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 04:10 PM
Feb 2015

about a candidate.

You may believe those statements are true. That is irrelevant to whether they're appropriate for a poll trying to measure public attitudes towards a candidate.

Cosmic Kitten

(3,498 posts)
69. Is it rhetoric to ask pointed questions?
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 04:16 PM
Feb 2015

Making the point that a candidate is well paid by
and has supported the agenda of a special interest group
is not "rhetorical" if one wants to discern the values
of the voting public.

Maybe Hillary did the poll to estimate the damage
her positions have created for her upcoming campaign?

Maybe Hillary needs to know how to spin her positions
so that she can maintain her "populist" image?

Hillary has as much to gain from this poll as anyone.
It's just about the perspective you hold while viewing.

Cosmic Kitten

(3,498 posts)
84. Admit to what exactly?
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 04:38 PM
Feb 2015
A group of major liberal donors who want Elizabeth Warren to run for president have paid for a poll intended to show that Hillary Clinton does not excite the Democratic base and would be vulnerable in a 2016 general election.


I just want to know who are the "major liberal donors" ?
We can all see that the linked article "says" what it says.
There is no reason to accept the unnamed "donors" at face value.
Only a fool takes an unnamed source/group at face value.
You are not that type of a fool, are you?

You seem very defensive of Hillary.
Are you a Hillary supporter?
Can't Hillary stand up for herself?
 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
87. so you think the person who gave this survey to politico lied
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 04:40 PM
Feb 2015

about being a supporter of Warren?

You think that Clinton would run a push-poll against herself and then leak the results?

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
116. The fact that someone told Politico that rich Sen Warren donors funded the poll is
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 11:34 PM
Feb 2015

unsubstantiated. We don't know what the person said that gave Politico the poll said because Politico didn't quote him/her and didn't provide any substantiation that any of this is true.


"You think that Clinton would run a push-poll against herself and then leak the results? " Well it's certainly would not be unusual in politics. But we have no idea who paid for the poll.

Autumn

(45,107 posts)
105. It does show how opinions change about a politicians when a voter is informed about the politician.
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 07:37 PM
Feb 2015

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
14. And this covers just domestic issues. Her negatives on her foreign policy record are far worse.
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 01:16 PM
Feb 2015

Hillary is properly viewed as a leading Democratic supporter of Bush's plunge toward war in Iraq. As Secretary of State, she was the driving force toward the chaotic disintegration of Libya and the spread of heavily armed Islamist militants into Syria and Iraq.

Her statements about obliterating Iran simply scare the shit out of most of those who are aware of them.

She is the embodiment of the next World War, in many eyes, a topic the MSM and polling companies don't want to touch. That is the 800 pound gorilla looming over her candidacy.

Response to Jackpine Radical (Original post)

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
24. Nope, not concerned. This is like all those polls that say that folks prefer progressive policies.
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 01:44 PM
Feb 2015

And those polls may be right. But it never seems to affect actual votes.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
52. Except when those policies get on the ballot
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 03:34 PM
Feb 2015

(such as minimum wage increases) And win. While conservative policies (such as abortion restrictions) get on the ballot and lose.

Our politicians are failing us, not our people.

JI7

(89,252 posts)
77. that's because of things like guns . it's "safer" to vote on a specific issue such as minimum wage
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 04:22 PM
Feb 2015

than to vote for a dem politicians who could help obama take away their guns.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
79. I think it's more about appealing to the DC media
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 04:26 PM
Feb 2015

You don't get invited on TV if you're "crazy". And "crazy" means you are to the left of the DLC. On the right, I don't think we've reached where the DC media considers crazy.

That's used as a proxy for public opinion. It's a terrible proxy that doesn't reflect public opinion at all.

Mustellus

(328 posts)
25. So regulating Wall Street, taxing the rich, and stopping TPP....
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 01:47 PM
Feb 2015

... is the platform that Republican candidates should run on.

I'd love to see Bernie Sanders, or Elizabeth Warren get the nomination.... but these are not vulnerabilities from the right... Just from the left.

Renew Deal

(81,861 posts)
26. This is a push poll
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 01:48 PM
Feb 2015

"When voters are asked whether her past support of deregulation of the big banks would make them more or less likely to vote for her, 19% say More Likely and 49% say Less Likely. Hillary has defended bonuses for bank managers in the bailed-out banks and when asked if they would be more or less likely to support a candidate who supported bank bonuses, 13% say More Likely and 57% say Less Likely. When told that Hillary has accepted speaking fees up to $200,000 per speech from Wall Street banks and has failed to demand accountability from banks for the 2008 financial collapse, 14% say they’d be More Likely to support such a candidate and 57% say Less Likely. When asked if they would be more or less likely to support a candidate for President who had supported NAFTA, as had the Clintons, 21% say More Likely and 51% say Less Likely. When asked if they would be more or less likely to support a candidate who supports loaning money to college students at the same low interest rates the U.S. loans money to banks, as Elizabeth Warren has, or a candidate like Hillary who has remained silent on this issue, 58% support low interest rates for students and 24% favor a candidate who has stayed silent about this."

DonViejo

(60,536 posts)
93. Well, that's the best I can do for ya, but....
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 04:59 PM
Feb 2015

I followed one of the links in the Politico article leading to some names that Politico appears to be suggesting, are funding that poll:

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/11/elizabeth-warren-liberal-donors-112888.html

I guess the only other way to find out would be to contact the draft Warren group and ask for the names of the donors. I don't know if fed election rules would require the draft Warren group to be specific about who donated for the poll but, that's the only other way I can think of for the information to become public.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
118. The article is some of the worst reporting jobs I've seen. They substantiate nothing.
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 11:38 PM
Feb 2015

Looks like a hatchet job to me. Am I wrong or does Politico have a thing against the Left?

asjr

(10,479 posts)
40. This article is stinking my atmosphere. I will vote
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 02:29 PM
Feb 2015

Democratic regardless who our candidate is but this is outright propaganda. They read the riot act about Hillary Clinton and only miss telling us what color her broom is.

George II

(67,782 posts)
50. It's impossible to say what parts are inaccurate since the writer has only paraphrased....
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 03:31 PM
Feb 2015

....the questions asked in the poll and neglected (intentionally?) to give the exact questions asked.

The article could be given more credence if the author didn't force readers to search for the poll questions and actual results.

My response is the 45th or so in this discussion, and lacking the specifics it is about 44 more than it deserved.

Kablooie

(18,634 posts)
42. Poll or no poll, I will vote for the candidate that pushes reigning in Wall Street the most.
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 02:43 PM
Feb 2015

Most of our societal problems, other than largely religious ones like abortion, are driven by the moneyed class grabbing everything for themselves at the expense of everyone else, including our descendants.

The careless gouging the earth for oil, engaging in wars that benefit no one but the instigators, the deterioration of our infrastructure, millions of jobs flying out of the country, denigration of clean energy alternatives, even the denial of climate change are all driving by wealthy interests preventing anything from decreasing their accumulation of wealth even if it destroys people's lives.

ellennelle

(614 posts)
47. PEOPLE PEOPLE PEOPLE, SETTLE DOWN
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 03:21 PM
Feb 2015

i don't know quite what is going on, but first, PPP is hardly a slouch outfit. go here to see their latest poll:

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2014/PPP_Release_National_13015.pdf

this poll is almost entirely about the republican bench; you have to scroll all the way down to the bottom to find anything on the dems. and those results sure don't show problems for hillary; she has 60% likelihood of support, and warren has 49%.

second, i cannot figure out what is going on with the alternet post, as the numbers there don't match the numbers on the PPP poll itself. that's a fail, for sure, but i don't know what to make of it, and cannot figure it out.

given the writer is 'staff,' might well have been a novice flunky who was looking at an old poll or something.

whatev'. in any case, best to investigate before you conflagrate.

dsc

(52,162 posts)
103. they are not a slouch outfit
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 07:27 PM
Feb 2015

but ran the poll they were paid to run, and it was a case of garbage in (loaded biased questions), garbage out (results that aren't accurate).

LiberalLovinLug

(14,174 posts)
48. She has the same problem as Obama
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 03:21 PM
Feb 2015

Maybe worse, because she has an even longer past cuddling up to multinationals and Wall Street.

That is that die in the wool Republicans will never vote for her. But she also will lose votes from the Democratic (I'm not even going to say "left&quot side of of the Democratic Party. If traditional Democrats were sick and tired of holding their noses to vote for the self-proclaimed "moderate Republican" in Obama, what new impetus is there to get out and vote for a further right Republican in Dem clothing? And of course Fox News will trumpet the exit numbers as ALL the opposition coming from one side, and "proving" that Americans are really all conservative right wing.

IMO Warren would be the perfect candidate because she could straddle in the opposite way. She'd have all the Democratic votes, plus that segment on the libertarian right that also thinks Wall Street and Government are too cosey, and are sick of the warmongering. And it also doesn't hurt that she is a former Republican who "saw the light".

George II

(67,782 posts)
51. Considering Obama won BOTH of his Presidential elections by the two largest popular vote counts....
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 03:34 PM
Feb 2015

....in history, anyone striving for the Presidency would welcome that "problem"!

LiberalLovinLug

(14,174 posts)
108. The "problem" is worse though with her
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 07:44 PM
Feb 2015

Because she has been around longer, and after 8 years of Obama folding his cards, left wing voters are reaching nose plugging fatigue. Enough to knock her out of first? Maybe, maybe not, but a few more Koch Bro photo-ops, or "we were broke" moments, and the liberal base may not be as enamored. Add to that the predictable behavior of the MSM to make it into a horse race, you'll have any "scandal" on Hillary front page, while they deify Teflon Jeb, until it actually IS a horse race.

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
71. Whatever we do, whatever decisions we make,
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 04:17 PM
Feb 2015

we need the best possible information upon which to base them. It's all too easy to pump yourself up on wish-fulfilling delusions, and distorted information such as this article seeks to distribute is potentially destructive in its effects. As liberals, we both seek knowledge and try to increase the awareness of others about what we learn. Creating half-truths and unfounded claims is not what we are about.

I'm a populist Progressive (in the old Wisconsin LaFollette tradition), so my politics are obvious. The reported results warmed my cockles (whatever the hell cockles are).

Until certain individuals (to whom I am grateful) rubbed my nose in the actual nature of the poll and its questions.

As it turns out, the poll is, if not exactly a push poll, one in which certain messages are being tested for the reactions they elicit from the public. As I said in a post above, I have no objection to--would in fact encourage--the conducting of polls like this, but for specific research purposes such as testing messages and frames; NOT as fodder for deceptive propaganda.

I have no idea whom to point the finger at--I haven't seen a press release from the pollster--or the writer for grossly (perhaps ignorantly) mischaracterizing the nature of the poll, but it is utterly wrong to publish the results of what essentially appears to be a messaging test under the pretense that it is actually a measure of public opinion. It is the other side whose edifices are built on foundations of lies, not ours. Whatever short-term benefit may ensue from the (small) media splash is not worth the irreparable damage we do to the integrity of our own foundations.

fredamae

(4,458 posts)
86. Polls and apparently Reports
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 04:40 PM
Feb 2015

of Polling results are only as reliable as the person/group who pays for them is honest.

I'd suggest This is a rather blatant example of How Public Opinion (all of us) is manipulated/managed/steered toward the end goals they, not us, hold dear.

Be aware. Take care. Do your own research. Make an independent determination based upon Your opinion/experiences...not what we're told it is supposed to be.

Another really good reason to shut off, shut out, shut down MSM. I can't speak for anyone else..but I'm Already 2016 campaign Season Weary-since last summer when they only really focused on 2016, even then...with the mid-terms right around the corner. Nice distraction, eh? And It Worked...folks that really could have changed what DC Politics are to something better-stayed home.

And: "The reported results warmed my cockles (whatever the hell cockles are)." I don't know What they are..but I understand they are "in your heart"

 

fbc

(1,668 posts)
54. I favor progressives over wall street lackeys as much as the next guy but...
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 03:39 PM
Feb 2015

Yeah, that's a worthless poll and the questions asked are ludicrously biased.

Cosmic Kitten

(3,498 posts)
57. this poll was commissioned by Warrenistas???
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 03:56 PM
Feb 2015

Any link(s) to the "Warrenista" connection?
Or even a link to the original Polling data?

...is "Warrenista" a pejorative?

raindaddy

(1,370 posts)
59. It certainly offers a lot of specifics for anyone to the left of her that decides to run.
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 03:57 PM
Feb 2015

The fact is the Clinton's became very wealthy by kissing Wall Street ass at the expense of the middle class. And since the media hasn't done it's job it would be great to have a way to inform the public of the direction the leaders in the Democratic party have taken in the last thirty years. Can we please have a traditional Democrat who will run against her and expose her as someone who tends to protect the interests of Wall Street over the interests of the voters. My guess is "informed" Democrats aren't going to want to reward Hillary Clinton with the Presidency.

wyldwolf

(43,867 posts)
95. Take your pick
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 05:13 PM
Feb 2015

Would 'traditional Democrats" be the party circa 1828-1860 that favored republicanism, slavery, a weak federal government, states' rights, agrarian interests (especially Southern planters) and strict adherence to the Constitution?

Or the Democratic party of the late 1800s like the pro-business Bourbon Democrats or the 'solid south' racist Democrats?

The Agrarian Democrats of the early 1900s that put Woodrow Wilson in power?

The FDR coalition of 1932 - 1968?

The 'New Left' influenced Democrats of the late 60s and 70s?

The 'New' Democrats of the 1980s - present?

The 'progressive' movement?

All these groups were/are distinct. Which are 'traditional?' I don't expect an answer from the 'more liberal than thou' crowd.

raindaddy

(1,370 posts)
97. A traditional Democrat simply put...
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 05:34 PM
Feb 2015

Would be a pre-Reagan era, pre-third way Democrat, who favored, labor over corporate interests and middle and low income Americans over the banking industry.

I don't believe in the notion that just because the Republican party shifted to the extreme right and kicked the moderates to the curb that the Democratic party becomes their new home.

Without the "traditional" populist ideology the Democratic party becomes an untethered party with undefined ideals that a growing number of people can no longer relate to. Hence less than a third of the public now consider themselves Democrats at a time when traditional Democrats should be kicking ass.

raindaddy

(1,370 posts)
107. I guess it's a matter of opinion but......
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 07:44 PM
Feb 2015

I consider the time priod of Roosevelt through LBJ to be long enough to establish a tradition of populism.

wyldwolf

(43,867 posts)
112. roughly 38 years
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 08:01 PM
Feb 2015

Other periods in the party's history have lasted at least as long. Some periods longer.



This whole hoo-hoo 'progressives' push about 'real Democrats' and 'traditional Democrats' is a joke.

raindaddy

(1,370 posts)
113. I think most people relate to modern history...
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 08:26 PM
Feb 2015

But if the Democratic Party has officially strayed from the populist platform they continue to campaign on at the very least they should make it official and announce a new era of support for the interests of Wall Street and global corporations. And those who haven't already moved on can stop fooling fooling themselves into believing promises and lies around election time.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
90. Amen to every word.
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 04:45 PM
Feb 2015

No more dynasts. No more groveling tools of Wall $treet.

No more Turd Way bullshit, period.

Warren and/or Sanders 2016.

wyldwolf

(43,867 posts)
94. Funny how some get their hopes up with push polls like this, part of which was done ONLINE
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 05:09 PM
Feb 2015
Then they'll be like the Romney camp in 2012 who were shocked and outraged when their internal polls proved very inaccurate.
 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
102. Exactly why Hillary is kaput if an FDR Democrat enters the race
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 07:21 PM
Feb 2015

As soon as an opponent goes after The Next One with those questions, she'll crater. And Hillary's not stupid, she knows it.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
106. Perhaps the poll should have indicated where the candidates poll on national security.
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 07:40 PM
Feb 2015

Ignoring security needs of the US should be a priority of a commander in chief, what is the use of having regulations on Wall Street if our country is getting terrorized.

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
110. That now appears to be the case.
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 07:49 PM
Feb 2015

Among other problems with this poll, discussed at length by me & others in the earlier posts.

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
111. Poll or no poll, her liability is that her agenda is MALIGNANT.
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 07:51 PM
Feb 2015


This nation cannot AFFORD another lying, looting, warmongering corporatist.

She is a Third Way menace to democracy. If corporate Democrats succeed in ramming her down our throats as the Dem candidate in 2016, they will have ensured that the corporate agenda continues no matter which candidate wins.

Corporate Republicans and the corporate Third Way are not just another flavor of politician within an essentially functioning representative government. They are building perpetual war, a police and surveillance state, and using our own laws and intelligence agencies to empower corporations over the will of the American people to dismantle democracy itself.



Hillary Clinton's leading role in drafting the TPP
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101667554

Hillary Clinton and Trade Deals: That “Giant Sucking Sound”
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016101761

Hillary Clinton Cheerleads for Biotech and GMOs
http://www.democraticunderground.com/112772326

Dissecting Hillary Clinton's Neocon Talking Points - Atlantic Interview
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017209519

NYTimes notices Hillary's natural affinity toward the neocons.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025205645

Hillary Clinton, the unrepentant hawk
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024876898

More from Hillary Clinton's State Department: The fascistic TISA (Trade in Services Agreement)
http://m.thenation.com/blog/180572-grassroots-labor-uprising-your-bank

How Hillary Clinton's State Department sold fracking to the world
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251376647

Hillary Clinton Sides with NSA over Snowden Disclosures
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101695441

On the NSA, Hillary Clinton Is Either a Fool or a Liar
http://m.thenation.com/article/180564-nsa-hillary-clinton-either-fool-or-liar

Corporate Warfare: Hillary Clinton admits role in Honduran coup aftermath
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025601610#post29

The Bill and Hillary Clinton Money Machine Taps Corporate Cash
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025189257

Hillary's Privatization Plan: TISA kept more secret than the TPP
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014829628

Hillary Clinton criticizes Obama's foreign policy 'failure'; strongly defends Israel
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014867136

Some of Hillary Clinton's statements on Social Security.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024379279

Hillary Clinton's GOLDMAN SACHS PROBLEM.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025049343

Ring of Fire: Hillary Clinton - The Perfect Republican Candidate
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017209285

How Americans Need Answers From Hillary Clinton On TPP, KXL, Wall St & More
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017181611

Hillary Clinton Left Out By Liberal Donor Club
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025809071

Why Wall Street Loves Hillary
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016106575

Hillary Clinton: Neocon-lite
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101684986

Interactive graphic of Hillary Clinton's connections to the Forbes top 400 (Follow link in post)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025824981#post9
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