Dan Rather would rather we not vilify Brian Williams

[99th_Monkey]

We all know what happened to Dan Rather, drummed out of a long and distinguished career
as CBS anchor by the Bush Crime Family. Here's Rather's take on the Brian Williams controversy.

"Dan Rather, whose career at the network unraveled in 2004 after bloggers challenged documents he reported as detailing the young George W. Bush's service in the Texas Air National Guard.

Rather, whose own controversy the media have revisited over the past 24 hours, defended Williams on Thursday.

"I don't know the particulars about that day in Iraq. I do know Brian," Rather said in a statement provided to The Huffington Post. "He's a longtime friend and we have been in a number of war zones and on the same battlefields, competing but together. Brian is an honest, decent man, an excellent reporter and anchor -- and a brave one. I can attest that -- like his predecessor Tom Brokaw -- he is a superb pro, and a gutsy one."
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/top-moments-in-politicians-lying-about-military-service

[elleng]

1. Happy to see this,

and would like to see more on Faux CONSTANT LIES, and research failures, NOT errors of memory.

[99th_Monkey]

15. +1000

[roguevalley]

32. Tom Brokaw doesn't like Brian Williams.

I am interested in what Jon Stewart has to say. they are friends.

[jaysunb]

2. Good for Dan...

This "gotcha" shit needs to stop.

[nilesobek]

4. Its never going to stop.

Now that everyone has a 4K camera on their smartphone with an adequate audio receiver then everyone is a whistle blower and part time journalist. The cat is out of the bag and anyone can be a journalist now and these newcomers use Google and other things to find anomalies like lies about combat and continuing storytelling by Williams. I welcome these checks to power.

[leveymg]

3. Dan knows something about this and we should listen

Neither he nor WIlliams are perfect but they're a he'll of a lot better than what replaces them. Time to stop doing the work of the RIght.

[GGJohn]

5. No, we shouldn't listen to Dan Rather,

Brian Williams flat out lied about being on the chopper that was hit with ground fire, and his apology was not exactly honest either, he now says he was in the following chopper, what he fails to inform is that the following chopper was more than a 1/2 hour behind the downed Chinook.

[99th_Monkey]

6. If you want to throw Williams under the bus & destroy his distinguished career

It's not just Dan Rather who thinks you're wrong-headed.
Tom Brokaw has said pretty much the same.

And not only that, but how do you square your "vilify Williams" stance with the fact that
GWBush, Reagan, Hillary Clinton, Joe McCarthy, Mark Kirk, Dick Blumenthal, and a VERY
long list of others ALL lied about their experiences on/off the battlefield. To my knowledge
NONE of them has had to "step down" from their careers or their professions because of
it.

Not. One.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/brian-williams-motley-crew
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/top-moments-in-politicians-lying-about-military-service

[GGJohn]

7. We're not talking about all those others,

we're talking about Brian Williams lying about being in the chopper that was downed by ground fire.

He lied, he knew he lied, he continued to lie until finally called out on it and then gave a non apology for his lie.
He should be taken to task for his lie.

[99th_Monkey]

8. taken to task, ok. check.

But should Williams lose his long and distinguished career over
mis-remembering an incident that occurred over 10 years ago?

Not so much.

[GGJohn]

9. You don't "mis-remember" an incident like being in a chopper

that was forced down by ground fire.
Makes me wonder what else he's mis-remembered.
Now there's questions on his reporting of Katrina.

[99th_Monkey]

10. The man has owned his mistake

Dan Rather and Tom Brokaw both have said you need to "get over it".

OK you say "we're not talking about all those others" who mis-remembered
stuff in the fog of war; but that doesn't explain: why the disparity? Why
do all these others get to mis-remember without losing their careers and
life work?

I think it's called putting things into perspective.

[GGJohn]

11. Sorry, but I don't just get over it when a veteran newsman lies

about something like that. A veteran newsman like him has to have credibility to be effective, now that credibility has been tarnished by such a bold faced lie and I have to wonder what else he's embellished or lied about.

[99th_Monkey]

13. OK

You can completely ignore the advice Dan Rather and Tom Brokaw.

You can steadfastly refuse to put the incident into perspective vis-a-vis others who mis-remember in fog of war,
but not been thrown under the bus for it.

So to be clear, for the record, you ARE demanding that Williams lose his job, his career, his very
livelihood, because of this thing that happened over 10 years ago? Is that correct?

[GGJohn]

14. I'm not demanding he lose his job,

but his credibility has been severely tarnished IMO.
And he kept up the lie for over 10 years and would still be lying about if not called out by those on the actual aircraft that day.

[MrMickeysMom]

16. Are you as angry about how few corporate structures decide WHAT the news IS?

No one ends up listening to any network, CNN, Fox and part of MSNBC, which frankly doesn't care ABOUT the "news" and makes no APOLOGIES for it, based on ratings?

First you begin to change the news with, "we fucked up", then you change the kind of news organization you are. I have more respect for Williams owning it than the Koch Brothers, coal industry and the NRfuckingA.

[GGJohn]

18. The ONLY reason he owned up to the lie

is because he was called out by the actual personnel on the aircraft, if not for that, he would still be telling the lie.

[MrMickeysMom]

23. Probably so… but that wasn't the point...

When you are wrong, it's often because someone DOES point it out to you overtly or covertly.

People have been pointing out and complaining about the news-info-tainment industry for decades. They just have more money…. LOTS more.

[GGJohn]

25. I'm not going to dispute your comment, because what you say is

very true.
The news today is more entertainment than actual honest reporting.

[RiffRandell]

39. I liked him up until this incident and agree with you.

He knew what happened and should have stopped the embellishment.

[tblue37]

56. I suspect his "apology" was crafted by network lawyers, which is why I

don't react to it as strongly as some others do.

As for the original story, it is so typically human (like Hillary's sniper fire) that I am not all that freaked by it, either.

The fact that he is a major network anchor causes people to take his self-aggrandizing fibbing more seriously, but I have always considered journalists to be as susceptible as anyone to human weakness, so I have never considered them to be beacons of truth.

Yes, we want them to tell us truth, but I am more concerned with the stories they tell about how TPTB operate and affect our lives than with the stories they tell about their own exciting adventures in the field.

OTOH, when are people in highly visible positions going to realize that we now have ubiquitous cameras and videocams, as well as an internet for rapid dissemination of information and for storing awkward info so that it doesn't just disappear, but hangs around where anyone can dig it up and use it to disprove tall tales?

[sabrina 1]

20. Don't forget, Bill O'Reilly. War hero!

[99th_Monkey]

22. Good one sabrina1 nt

[GGJohn]

27. And don't forget Mittens,

supporting the Vietnam war while enjoying deferments and doing so in France while thousands of us were in Vietnam.

[sabrina 1]

29. Yes, I remember that too. They are all heroes, in their own minds.

[braddy]

55. Years later, Mittens switched to saying...........

In 2007 Mitt Romney was the frustrated warrior that for some reason hadn't been able to find a way to enlist in the Army or Marines, (or answer the draft) during the decade or more that he was eligible to.

“I longed in many respects to actually be in Vietnam and be representing our country there, and in some ways it was frustrating not to feel like I was there as part of the troops that were fighting in Vietnam.”

[GGJohn]

57. Does he have no shame with his lies? eom.

[braddy]

58. No, and while his lying may seem typical to people who only watched him during 2012

they should look at his life, while the Mitt of the last 4 years looks like a typical sleazy politician, if you look back 20 years, he is a pathological liar. Mitt lies even when there doesn't appear to be any thing to gain or profit from it.

[pinboy3niner]

34. Blast from the past: The Al Franken Show -- Sgt Bill O'Reilly, Tales Of Combat!

[sabrina 1]

37. Lol, that was good. All really made Bill's life miserable. 'I've been in combat'!

[pinboy3niner]

12. Here's what the pilot of Williams' chopper says (interview link):

He backs up most of what Willilams said, except for getting hit by an RPG (Williams' chopper was hit by small arms fire and the door gunners returned fire).

http://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2015/02/05/lead-bpr-krell-brian-williams-under-fire.cnn

[GGJohn]

17. He's since changed his story.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/02/06/media/stelter-iraq-pilots/

[99th_Monkey]

30. The pilot says no such thing. No change at all. None.

You are totally misrepresenting that link, which I suspect was one
of the earlier interviews, not any kind of "retraction" at all.

No where does the pilot 'change his story'

I encourage anyone reading this, to actually watch/listen to the footage at the link.
I didn't hear anything at serious variance with the same pilots account here:
http://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2015/02/05/lead-bpr-krell-brian-williams-under-fire.cnn

[GGJohn]

31. The link I posted was written on 2/6/2015

your link is 2/5/2015.

Krell:Good morning. The information I gave you was true based on my memories, but at this point I am questioning my memories that I may have forgotten or left something out."

Brian Stelter:The situation remains murky and many questions remain unanswered. (There is somebody that can clear a lot of this up -- and that's Williams.)

Bottom line: this pilot is revising his story - and, because of that, I'm revising mine.

What initially looked like an account that supported some of Brian Williams' war story -- that he came "under fire" that day -- no longer appears to be true.

Krell now says his memories may be wrong and several other soldiers have contradicted his account of that day.

That pilot, Rich Krell, told me he was flying the helicopter Williams was on in Iraq -- an account now contradicted by several other soldiers

[herding cats]

36. Is he going to be villified now,too?

I mean, if he made a mistake too, is his career over as well? Should he also be bared naked and dragged through broken glass? Not that I want that, but what the hell is really taking place here? We need to think critically about this and set aside our emotions.

I don't watch TV, I don't even follow US MSN much. I really don't have a horse in this race. I have, however, seen this account posted from both of the claimants perspectives. It would seem there's something amiss in the perspective here.

As a person on the outside looking in, this whole event appears to be emotionally driven at a time when NBC news is under a lot of stress from the other networks. Their rating shares are down and they've been suffering internal upheaval. A disportionanat amount of upheaval. These are things I do follow.

Our news media today is a mess, I know that as well as anyone, if not better than some others, but something here leaves me with a feeling that there's more to this than what's on the surface. My gut tells me this has nothing to do with the masses getting better news coverage, quite the opposite actually. I suspect this is going to be one more step toward the destruction of our media outlets. All this is from a person whose disdain for our current media is relatively well document here. I cannot shake the feeling that something is up here which I don't fully understand. I admit that may be because each time a media outlet finds itself in a situation similar to this one, it seems to move further to the right to appease its detractors. Leaving the rest of us even more adrift in the sea of bed biased US news media.

I just worry we're missing something vital here. Once again, as usual, lather, rinse, repeat.

[joshcryer]

52. This reminds me of Clinton's sniper fire statement.

I think, ultimately, heads of state or "important people" are protected more by the military, and they take "extra precaution" and I think that leads to an inflated sense of risk and danger, so people throw out these tales.

We know that in Clinton's case she was made to "get down" in a more safe part of the airplane, as testified by witnesses there, and she went on and spun her own yarn about it (to her, it was extra danger, to the people involved, it was extra precaution).

I'm not apologizing for people who exaggerate their circumstance, as after the fact they should ask what was going on and get the details sussed out, of course. It's especially bad when they continue to throw these yarns out, because it's disrespectful in many ways to those who were in armed conflict or who did have more risk.

Given that interview I think that Williams had a much harder and riskier time at it than Clinton, of course. He still shouldn't have exaggerated so much and should've got the details worked out. Just for journalistic integrity.

[sabrina 1]

21. I wonder who he offended, or who he has some info on?

Seems odd to go after someone to this extent over something so many others in public life have done, only far worse.

[GGJohn]

24. Because he passes himself off as the most trusted newsman in the media. eom.

Fox wouldn't know the truth if it came up and slapped them in the face.

[sabrina 1]

26. Wrong, Fox is the most 'trusted name in news'! And yet, nothing about the whoppers they tell

on a daily basis. Especially their role in deceiving the American people regarding Iraq, a far more serious lie that got so many people killed.

[GGJohn]

28. Sorry, he calls himself the most trusted Anchor in news. eom.

[99th_Monkey]

33. So that means what?

That if he forgets exactly what he had for dinner 4569 days ago,
that he deserves to be vilified as a liar 24/7 for how many days?

You know the pilot of that copter Williams was on, was taking enemy fire, albeit
not RPG fire. They were engaged in an all-out fire fight with enemy forces that
were firing at his copter, and the copter was returning fire.

I've seen nothing -- no retraction of any kind -- from this pilot to suggest his
account here is not what actually happened:
http://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2015/02/05/lead-bpr-krell-brian-williams-under-fire.cnn

[GGJohn]

35. See post #31.

Even Krell is questioning his memory of that day.

[99th_Monkey]

40. Are you suggesting that CNNMoney should be "the most trusted news" now?

Or it would appear.

I only just now learned of the Krell story, not to
mention its supposed 'revision', etc.

I'm going to sleep on it, and revisit this tomorrow,
when I'm in a more sober state of mind.

Peace and love to all.

[GGJohn]

43. I'm with you.

Our cows get up damned early and demand to be fed, so it's off to bed for me.

Peace and love to you and all.

[GGJohn]

38. Your link has been edited to now say

that Krell is having doubts about his memory.

http://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2015/02/05/lead-bpr-krell-brian-williams-under-fire.cnn

Since this aired, the pilot now tells CNN: "The information I gave you was true based on my memories, but at this point I am questioning my memories."

[pinboy3niner]

42. Moral: Never trust a chopper pilot!

[GGJohn]

44. Hey now!!!!!

I resemble that remark

[MohRokTah]

41. Since this comes from Dan Rather, I have to let it go over Brian Williams.

I cannot in good conscience hold it against Brian Williams any longer.

[Nye Bevan]

45. The guy who thought something from Microsoft Word with all default settings

was produced on a typewriter in 1973? Quite the character witness, there.

[99th_Monkey]

47. So are we going to re-crucify Dan Rather too?

The self-same Dan Rather who was drummed out of his lifelong
profession of journalism by the Bush Crime Family?

Oh, that's right. Kill the messenger. End of story.

Carry on ... albeit not with my blessings.

[Nye Bevan]

48. He drummed himself out with unpardonably sloppy journalism (nt)

[99th_Monkey]

49. No. Rather was 'taken out' but the Bush Crime Family

Interesting the company you keep.

[Nye Bevan]

51. Perhaps someone on Bush's side did produce the obviously fake memo,

and Dan Rather fell headlong into their trap by not bothering to authenticate it.

It was still unpardonably sloppy journalism, however. And the "interesting the company you keep" thing is not as clever as you think it is.

[braddy]

46. Dan Rather has his own fake claim of being a Marine. "Stolen Valor"

[99th_Monkey]

50. My my. Just look at the company you keep with your "stolen valor" meme

Tea Party and all. Wow.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/brian-williams-s-stolen-valor_841080.html

http://www.teapartynation.com/profiles/blog/show?id=3355873%3ABlogPost%3A3013209&commentId=3355873%3AComment%3A3013906&xg_source=activity

http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1239482&page=6

[braddy]

53. "Stolen Valor" is an important book written about my fellow veterans, and the fakes,

it isn't a tea party coined phrase or from some magazine article.

And for decades Dan Rather claimed to be a Marine.

[senseandsensibility]

54. Did Williams offer any support at all to Rather

during his trumped up troubles ? I would expect no less from Dan. But I think I know the answer.