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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsREALLY?!?! Azealia Banks: When I say...
When Olivares asked Banks to define the slur, she replied, "The word 'f----t' came to me from my mother. And it was never a thing about a guy being gay. It was always just a man who hates women. You can be gay or straight. You can be a straight f----t F----s are men who want to bring women down, fuck with their heads, control them."
She then took issue with the bias she notices in white gay men:
"I definitely think a lot of the time with the 'white gay media' especially with female artists in order for you to seem successful or seem feminine you have to desire their approval. I feel like a lot of times gay men can be way more misogynistic than even straight men. Even how they come to you picking at your hair, telling you you're fat, telling you all this other shit. Telling you how to be a woman. What the fuck do you know about being a woman?"
"You called me a b---h, I'll call you a f----t," she later added. "What's the difference?"
Banks, who is bisexual, doesn't think she's being homophobic:
"To be homophobic would imply that I'm, like, 'I can't sit next to a gay man cuz Imma catch the gay, but I already caught the gay. I feel like when I use the word 'f----t,' it comes from, like, a feminist point of view, not a homophobic point of view. It's really just kinda like you feel attacked as a woman."
http://jezebel.com/azealia-banks-when-i-say-faggot-i-mean-it-in-a-femini-1684908272?utm_campaign=socialflow_jezebel_facebook&utm_source=jezebel_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow
So, a couple things here...just went through my mind.
1. I use the 'b' word and I'm a woman. I catch hell here all the time. One of my favorite tee shirts ends with "and to you it's Ms. 'B'. I don't have a problem with that word. I use for men, women and the toaster. I DON'T EVER use it HERE...let me make that clear. I would never use it around anyone that doesn't like it. I do understand words can hurt--
2. Ms. Banks says she's bisexual. Would using this slur fall into the same category as black people using the 'n' word. I know all black people don't use and many don't like it. My dad hates it and slaps my brothers when he hears them use it. I have one brother who never uses it and hates it as well. My sister uses it a lot. I never use it--but I'm white..lol. I have gay relatives and I've never heard any of them use that word. I have heard an older one use the 'q' word.
I believe Ms. Banks is wrong in what she said...thoughts?
Prism
(5,815 posts)Last edited Tue Feb 10, 2015, 01:38 PM - Edit history (1)
Edit: Whoops! I thought this was Iggy Azalea. The rest still applies.
As for 2. Nope nope nope. "F---t" is typically a slur directed at men. Just as I don't ever want to hear "d--e" used by gay men towards lesbians, I don't want to hear f----t from a woman's lips, bisexual or no. Not her place.
I'm not touching the gay men vs. straight woman complaint with a ten foot pole. I'll only say I think Anthony Michael D'Agostino's take down of Sierra Mannie is totally relevant here:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/anthony-michael-dagostino/bye-sierra-mannie-a-slightly-ang_b_5588108.html
TexasProgresive
(12,157 posts)that word has been used as an insult against gay men for some time. I have never heard mother Banks use of it. If gay men wish to own the word as they have queer then that is their right. I think Ms. Banks is wrong in her use of the word regardless of being bi or lesbian, just as I would be as a straight.
CurtEastPoint
(18,646 posts)Talented or not, do not know nor care but her attitudes are shit.
Go Cheney yourself, Azalea.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)A nonsense spewing dumbass.
Rex
(65,616 posts)They are the ones that took 'gay' and made it into a meaning for all things lame (and in an incredibly insidious way by having children on the show do it). Same with the word faggot. So, if that is her level of mindset then I pity her more than I am mad at her.
Yes Ms. Banks is acting like a big fool imo.
Orrex
(63,213 posts)In their amazing cultural originality, the folks at South Park merely latched onto a homophobic trend that had existed since long before that awful, unfunny show first hit the air.
Rex
(65,616 posts)I cringe when I hear kids say something is 'gay'. It grates on my nerves to no end.
Desert805
(392 posts)French fries cold? That's gay!
We didn't know any better-- we were just kids, and really, we didn't know what kissing girls was like, let alone what gay really meant, heh.
Anyway, my point is, we were idiots way before South Park-- if anything, they're parodying our (childhood) dumb-ness.
It's satire.
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)And I think it's ridiculous of her to claim otherwise. People who hear her use the word are going to hear its actual meaning, not her invented one. It's a slur, and it's homophobic, despite her claim.
I can't just decide that the n-word means "jerk" and start using it that way.
Iggo
(47,558 posts)JustAnotherGen
(31,828 posts)Using that word in the house I grew up in got you Palmolive on my mom's dish rag for a snack.
irisblue
(32,980 posts)When my brother began learning sign language, we all thought signing& spelling bad words would be safe...wrong! Ivory soap snack and a hand washing. Mom was pretty consistent, lord love her.
JustAnotherGen
(31,828 posts)Orrex
(63,213 posts)She has a strangely tuned outrage compass.
melman
(7,681 posts)There are a lot of conspicuous absences in this thread.
Orrex
(63,213 posts)Curious...
Dr. Strange
(25,921 posts)Orrex
(63,213 posts)Dr. Strange
(25,921 posts)God, I hated Shemp.
Orrex
(63,213 posts)Wait.
Mr Dixon
(1,185 posts)I have heard this word tossed around by woman directed at men whom they could not control, pretty much the equal to the he has a lil Di@k Statement. Woman can be just as ignorant and men.
TeamPooka
(24,228 posts)Behind the Aegis
(53,959 posts)Also, how the fuck does this have anything to do with feminism?! She is a homophobic bigot. I find it beyond bizarre she would claim a slur, which is often used to denigrate men by "making them feminine", is some how a feminist statement. Sounds like she hates gay men, especially white ones.
Veruca Salt
(921 posts)one_voice
(20,043 posts)agree with what you said.
Sissyk
(12,665 posts)JustAnotherGen
(31,828 posts)tammywammy
(26,582 posts)And I love that commercial.
treestar
(82,383 posts)And the second time it is a reason other than her music.
hughee99
(16,113 posts)but she's, by far, better known for be offensive and offended, and that's a much more sustainable career.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)What an idiot.
Who is she anyway?
hughee99
(16,113 posts)For someone who has a whole lot to say about OTHER peoples words, she sure seems to dislike criticism of her own. One of the new trends in saying offensive things seems to be "That very offensive word means something different to me, so it's okay if I say it".
Given what I've already read about Banks, though, this doesn't really surprise me.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)She's a bigot, plain and simple. Her "feminist point of view" is pretty worthless as far as I am concerned. She's making up stupid excuses to call people names. But don't you dare call her a name! She needs to grow up.
one_voice
(20,043 posts)ancianita
(36,060 posts)Not because it's right in and of itself or enables progress in power relations; mutual slurring or insult doesn't improve much at all. But it does heighten awareness in other outgroups about what they may presume with women, or at least her.
Even so, I don't think it's on her or any other female celebrity to improve power relations between genders as a cause. She just needs to improve power relations around herself and her sphere of influence.
Wrong is a word used to label morality. I don't think she's wrong to use that word with men whose outgroup (LGBT in general) is legally faring slightly better, right now, than is her outgroup. I think that if her stance politically rubs the other dominant groups the wrong way, that's a fair warning to them to watch how they treat her. She says, "You're a "faggot" if you presume the power to tell me how to be."
In general, not all outgroup word users will capitulate to majority semantic rules. And some might claim meaning turf, as in the claim of an outgroup to use the 'n' word. This kinda could fall into that category, I think, although I don't think she's claiming that, specifically. She's just giving the background she learned for using the word.
Eventually, the whole issue will probably be moot when her outgroup can at least get equal pay, proportional recognition and power. Whenever that is.
one_voice
(20,043 posts)but I am a little confused. Are you saying it's ok for her to use a slur because she's part of a more oppressed group? That's how I'm reading what you said. *if* that's what you're saying; I strongly disagree.
The fact that she uses feminism and a cover to do basically use hate speech is beyond disgusting. I cannot imagine anyone defending her using this horrible slur. It's like someone defending a white person using the 'n' or this 'f' word cuz 'you know that's just how they were raised, or it's their generation' it's the same thing.
ancianita
(36,060 posts)Even so, I don't think it's on her or any other female celebrity to improve power relations between genders as a cause.
I hope my words are a little clearer.
I admit that I'm condoning it because, most importantly, it's defensive speech; second, I think its practical political effect is more important than is her moral obligation to be the better person and suck up the evil. Every human has his/her limits, and women are not more obligated to strive for sainthood than anyone else.
So yeah, I support her defensive rhetorical strategy, as rhetoricians would call it.
one_voice
(20,043 posts)I just can't see condoning it. I never said women were more obligated to strive for sainthood, I said to frame it as or under feminism was disgusting. As a woman I think I can say that.
Let me tell you why I have a problem with they way you're excusing this. The tit for tat. They called her the 'b' word so using that shitty slur is fair game. I'm going to say this and I don't care who agrees I don't think the 'b' words has the level of hate that the 'f' word does. It's just not as hateful as far as slurs go. Not in my book. W--re; yes, but the 'b' word not on the same level.
My son is biracial--part Hispanic. His girlfriends mother was jumped by a bunch of Hispanic girls and she's had issues with Hispanics in her neighborhood. Therefore my son was a dirty spic and not worthy of her daughter. Tit for tat. Every human having their limits and all. I wanted to literally beat the shit out of that woman for treating him the way she did. BUT I didn't, HE took the high road and showed her how she was wrong react like that. She loves the hell out of him now and actually gets along with many of the people she didn't before. She's a better person. No more slurs. Hate begets hate.
Mind you, Ms. Banks lumped the 'gay white media' in with her slur not just men that call her the 'b' word. Any man *she* deemed hated women was/is a f----t. So it's not just about being called a 'b'
ancianita
(36,060 posts)Also, I don't think faggot is any less or more offensive than bitch. And for all the concern of offensive language, I myself usually take bitch as a compliment. I like flipping its meaning and embracing it as a rhetorical tactic.
I'm just not moved by those who try to remain in power through the playground bully tactic of namecalling. For me there's no hurt in any twelve year-old's invective. Nor hers. The more insecure the receiver, the more dangerous is the offensive word.
Given the millennial death toll of women at the hands of men -- more than the number of accidental deaths and some diseases combined -- and given that the dictionary slur count for women is many times what it is for men, given the threat of force in the social, religious and domestic worlds toward women -- the gender war is hardly tilted toward women's favor by any careless tit-for-tat slurs women fling, anyway.