HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » I realized tonight that A...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Sat Apr 28, 2012, 11:20 PM

I realized tonight that America's 99% are fucked for years to come

I was listening to Tavis Smiley in the car. He was interviewing folks who'd been jobless for years. Some homeless at times. People who had good jobs and good lives previously, but now they're in dire straights. America has changed.

And it struck me like lightning that here's no light visible at the end of this tunnel. One political party is calling for austerity against the 99%. Our other political party is calling for austerity against the 99% while throwing us a few little treats. "Free" trade, more bank deregulation, and civil liberties down the drain. Citizen's United. Avarice, cowardice, and incompetence.

Poverty, homelessness and hunger are increasing, increasing. Meanwhile, the wealthy grow wealthier as they suck what little bits are left to suck from the rest of us. No help on the horizon, sorry.

I hope we get past this, but it will take a long while. Not fun to think about: but here we are.



135 replies, 19150 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 135 replies Author Time Post
Reply I realized tonight that America's 99% are fucked for years to come (Original post)
MannyGoldstein Apr 2012 OP
coalition_unwilling Apr 2012 #1
MannyGoldstein Apr 2012 #2
cantbeserious Apr 2012 #34
Mnemosyne Apr 2012 #52
chervilant Apr 2012 #129
Tesha Apr 2012 #71
cantbeserious Apr 2012 #80
Jake2413 Apr 2012 #116
Coyote_Bandit Apr 2012 #118
Joe Bacon Apr 2012 #82
coalition_unwilling Apr 2012 #86
Joe Bacon Apr 2012 #121
HiPointDem Apr 2012 #3
ProSense Apr 2012 #4
MannyGoldstein Apr 2012 #6
ProSense Apr 2012 #10
MannyGoldstein Apr 2012 #12
ProSense Apr 2012 #13
MannyGoldstein Apr 2012 #16
ProSense Apr 2012 #31
MannyGoldstein Apr 2012 #33
ProSense Apr 2012 #36
MannyGoldstein Apr 2012 #39
ProSense Apr 2012 #46
MannyGoldstein Apr 2012 #50
ProSense Apr 2012 #56
MannyGoldstein Apr 2012 #58
nadinbrzezinski Apr 2012 #91
socialist_n_TN Apr 2012 #93
nadinbrzezinski Apr 2012 #100
bvar22 Apr 2012 #105
ProSense Apr 2012 #111
nadinbrzezinski Apr 2012 #124
ProSense Apr 2012 #114
sendero Apr 2012 #75
SunSeeker Apr 2012 #66
SwampG8r Apr 2012 #68
jwirr Apr 2012 #45
ProSense Apr 2012 #77
jwirr Apr 2012 #97
banned from Kos Apr 2012 #5
MannyGoldstein Apr 2012 #9
coalition_unwilling Apr 2012 #11
MannyGoldstein Apr 2012 #15
dkf Apr 2012 #20
coalition_unwilling Apr 2012 #27
dkf Apr 2012 #37
dkf Apr 2012 #30
PSPS Apr 2012 #14
girl gone mad Apr 2012 #67
nadinbrzezinski Apr 2012 #92
socialist_n_TN Apr 2012 #94
obxhead Apr 2012 #7
closeupready Apr 2012 #8
white_wolf Apr 2012 #18
gateley Apr 2012 #17
Swede Apr 2012 #19
MannyGoldstein Apr 2012 #22
Swede Apr 2012 #24
MannyGoldstein Apr 2012 #26
Swede Apr 2012 #48
MannyGoldstein Apr 2012 #51
hfojvt Apr 2012 #69
MannyGoldstein Apr 2012 #78
nadinbrzezinski Apr 2012 #102
hfojvt Apr 2012 #110
coalition_unwilling Apr 2012 #28
RKP5637 Apr 2012 #21
FarCenter Apr 2012 #23
mmonk Apr 2012 #25
Jamaal510 Apr 2012 #29
MannyGoldstein Apr 2012 #32
nadinbrzezinski Apr 2012 #35
MannyGoldstein Apr 2012 #38
ProSense Apr 2012 #40
MannyGoldstein Apr 2012 #43
ProSense Apr 2012 #54
MannyGoldstein Apr 2012 #57
ProSense Apr 2012 #59
nadinbrzezinski Apr 2012 #41
MannyGoldstein Apr 2012 #49
woo me with science Apr 2012 #81
nadinbrzezinski Apr 2012 #87
abelenkpe Apr 2012 #122
white_wolf Apr 2012 #126
bullwinkle428 Apr 2012 #42
MannyGoldstein Apr 2012 #44
alcibiades_mystery Apr 2012 #53
MannyGoldstein Apr 2012 #60
Zorra Apr 2012 #47
MannyGoldstein Apr 2012 #61
U4ikLefty Apr 2012 #63
Cleita Apr 2012 #55
U4ikLefty Apr 2012 #62
blackspade Apr 2012 #64
woo me with science Apr 2012 #65
KG Apr 2012 #73
xchrom Apr 2012 #70
estiparanoic Apr 2012 #72
Zorra Apr 2012 #88
estiparanoic Apr 2012 #95
Zorra Apr 2012 #101
estiparanoic May 2012 #132
estiparanoic May 2012 #134
MannyGoldstein Apr 2012 #98
WilliamPitt Apr 2012 #104
estiparanoic May 2012 #133
sabrina 1 Apr 2012 #107
woo me with science Apr 2012 #115
kentuck Apr 2012 #74
cliff48 Apr 2012 #128
ProSense Apr 2012 #76
Throckmorton Apr 2012 #79
Autumn Apr 2012 #83
ProSense Apr 2012 #84
Autumn Apr 2012 #85
ProSense Apr 2012 #89
Autumn Apr 2012 #90
arely staircase Apr 2012 #96
Egalitarian Thug Apr 2012 #99
WilliamPitt Apr 2012 #103
bvar22 Apr 2012 #106
MannyGoldstein Apr 2012 #108
bvar22 Apr 2012 #109
Zax2me Apr 2012 #112
NNN0LHI Apr 2012 #113
rrHeretic Apr 2012 #117
radhika Apr 2012 #119
fascisthunter Apr 2012 #120
TBF Apr 2012 #123
DAngelo136 Apr 2012 #125
Bonhomme Richard Apr 2012 #127
DearAbby Apr 2012 #130
glinda Apr 2012 #131
dmosh42 May 2012 #135

Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sat Apr 28, 2012, 11:26 PM

1. There is a lack of will thus far to do what must be done. But wealth can be

 

expropriated\confiscated through higher taxes on the wealthy and stiffer inheritance taxes. What has been lacking until now is the will to see things through.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #1)

Sat Apr 28, 2012, 11:27 PM

2. We elect people to do the job

Then they abandon us.

Frustrating.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #2)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 12:11 AM

34. The People We Elect Are At The Mercy Of The 1% Due To Citizens United

eom

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cantbeserious (Reply #34)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 12:37 AM

52. And what is the explanation/excuse for their actions before that putrid ruling?

They are more at the mercy of their own greed. jmho

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mnemosyne (Reply #52)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 09:34 PM

129. + a gazillion n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cantbeserious (Reply #34)


Response to Tesha (Reply #71)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 09:55 AM

80. Then The Bigger Fish Theory Applies - Disappoint Koch Brothers And One Better Watch Out

eom

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #2)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 04:58 PM

116. I'm afraid we will have to do this ourselves.

Can't rely on elected officials.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #2)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 05:29 PM

118. Ummmm......

It is certainly true that many hold such hopes and expectations for the candidates they elect.

Then there are those of us who realize that we must vote for a candidate who largely will not serve to advance or protect our interests - and we do so in order to avoid an even worse candidate being elected. It is hard to feel abandoned when you had such low expectations.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #1)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 10:10 AM

82. We no longer have a National Will

Since the New Right came to power in 1978, they've replaced our National Will with a National Won't.

Our national CCCP (Corporate Controlled Conservative Press) feeds the people a 24/7 diet of selfishness, narcissism and materialism. That same diet is preached from 90% of the pulpits of American ¢hur¢he$. People are still swallowing the lie that there's pie in the sky for them when they die as long as they follow their corporate masters.

Honestly, I believe we've passed the point of no return for the United States. It's only a matter of time before we break into pieces the same way the Soviet Union did.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Joe Bacon (Reply #82)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 10:51 AM

86. I hope you will consider fashioning this into an OP, as what you say and predict

 

is important.

The breakup of the U.S. that you postulate leaves unmentioned the huge amount of suffering by the poor and weak that will ensue. Is avoiding\ameliorating that suffering enough of a reason to seek to hold the U.S. tegether? For me it is, but I am now past my prime (early 50s) and will soon come a time when my views on the issue no longer matter.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #86)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 07:14 PM

121. Joseph Schumpeter said it better

When I was in college, Mark Perlman introduced me to Joseph Schumpeter. Amazing to see that everything he predicted came to pass...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sat Apr 28, 2012, 11:28 PM

3. Yep. And very few "treats" at that.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sat Apr 28, 2012, 11:29 PM

4. Tens of

"People who had good jobs and good lives previously, but now they're in dire straights. America has changed."

...millions of Americans have been suffering in poverty for decades. America hasn't "changed" for them. It's good that people are waking up to the reality of what that means.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProSense (Reply #4)

Sat Apr 28, 2012, 11:31 PM

6. Millions more thrown into poverty each year

And more urgent talk of the need to eat our peas.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #6)

Sat Apr 28, 2012, 11:34 PM

10. Action,

not complaining and resignation, is what's needed. This bill by Harkin would be a great start, but it's only on the radar of a few unions:

Dave Jamieson

Raise Minimum Wage By 35 Percent, Peg It To Inflation: Senate Dem

WASHINGTON -- Legislation introduced by Sen. Tom Harkin (D-Iowa) on Thursday included a litany of measures aimed at boosting income for low-wage workers, most notably raising the minimum wage significantly and pegging it to inflation.

Along with spending on school modernization and renewable energy development, the Rebuild America Act calls for raising the minimum wage from the current federal level of $7.25 to $9.80 -- a 35 percent hike -- over the course of two and a half years, then indexing it so it rises with the cost of living. For restaurant servers and other tipped employees, the minimum wage before tips would leap from the current $2.13 to $6.86, and then track at 70 percent of the normal minimum wage.

The bill would also require employers to offer their workers paid sick days, make more white-collar workers eligible for overtime pay that they're currently exempted from, and give more workers the right to join a union.

In short, Harkin's bill, pitched as a prescription to rebuild the American middle class, hits all the right notes for worker advocates who say low- and middle-income earners are falling behind. The package was quickly praised by groups such as the AFL-CIO federation of labor unions; the National Employment Law Project, which advocates for low-wage workers; and the Restaurant Opportunities Center United, a national group representing restaurant employees.

- more -

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/29/minimum-wage-tom-harkin_n_1389457.html



Harkin’s Rebuild America Act Builds Economy for 99%

Mike Hall

Saying there can be no economic recovery without the recovery of the middle class, Sen. Tom Harkin (D-Iowa) today introduced the Rebuild America Act. The legislation would, says AFL-CIO President Richard Trumka:

achieve shared prosperity by putting America back to work, rebuilding our infrastructure, repairing our safety net and insisting that shared sacrifice start at the top—with Wall Street and the wealthiest Americans.

<...>

The Rebuild America Act, says Trumka, “addresses many unmet needs that have been ignored for far too long.”

The bill would revive the manufacturing sector so we can make things in America again, increase Social Security benefits and restore the minimum wage’s purchasing power. Sen. Harkin recognizes that fairness requires us to ensure workers don’t lose overtime protections to inflation, discourage rampant speculation on Wall Street, alleviate the cost of child care for working families and other overdue reforms.

Harkin says his legislation “will ensure that all workers have a right to join together and stand up for fair wages and working conditions and that employers face real penalties for violating that right.”

Robert L. Borosage, co-director of the Campaign for America’s Future, says the bill:

offers strong medicine for what ails America—and a stunning rebuke both to those who say we can’t afford to invest in our future and to those who would cut vital investments to the bone.

http://www.aflcio.org/Blog/Political-Action-Legislation/Harkin-s-Rebuild-America-Act-Builds-Economy-for-99



Harkin bill would revive the American Dream

by Lawrence Mishel and Ross Eisenbrey

Iowa Sen. Tom Harkin, the Chairman of the Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions, has introduced a bill that shows the way to a better economic future for most Americans. The Rebuild America Act tackles many of the biggest problems that hold back the American economy and shut off opportunity for working families.

It’s an omnibus bill that will increase employment by making big infrastructure investments, developing renewable energy systems, addressing unfair foreign trade practices, providing assistance to state and local governments to retain police, firefighters and teachers, ending tax breaks that encourage companies to move jobs offshore, and promoting manufacturing in the United States.

It will help workers get a decent return on their education and their work by strengthening the minimum wage and overtime laws, better protecting the right to join a union and bargain collectively, enhancing retirement security, and guaranteeing paid sick leave.

<...>

We want to particularly applaud Sen. Harkin for his courage in swimming against the tide in two critical areas: Social Security and labor policy. The Rebuild America Act rejects the notion that Social Security is too expensive and that we can’t afford to meet the promises we made to America’s workers: That if they worked hard for a lifetime, they could retire with guaranteed benefits and inflation protection. Too many other politicians are ready, if not eager, to cut Social Security’s cost of living protection and to reduce benefits by raising the retirement age, no matter that such changes have the biggest impact on the retirement security of women and blue-collar and low-income workers, many of whom have seen little or no increase in life expectancy. By contrast, Sen. Harkin knows workers need more help, not less; that fewer and fewer workers have pensions; that 401(k) accounts are insufficient and undependable sources of retirement income; that Social Security is steadily replacing less and less of pre-retirement income; and that the Social Security COLA is not too generous, but rather too skimpy to keep up with the cost of health care inflation that drives the spending of older workers.

The Rebuild America Act therefore replaces the Social Security COLA formula with one that better accounts for cost inflation in the products and services that older workers pay for. It raises benefits across the board. And it pays for these improvements and addresses the program’s long-term revenue shortfall by “scrapping the cap” – eliminating the loophole that shelters incomes above $110,100 from Social security taxes.

- more -

http://www.epi.org/blog/harkin-bill-revive-american-dream/


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProSense (Reply #10)

Sat Apr 28, 2012, 11:36 PM

12. Has the President backed Harkin's bill?

The way he, say, backed Bush's "free" trade agreements?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #12)

Sat Apr 28, 2012, 11:40 PM

13. Does

"Has the President backed Harkin's bill?"

...he need to for you to call your Senator in support of it? I mean, between Harkin's bill, the Progressive Caucus' proposal (http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002488743) and those proposed by the President (see the previous link for comparison), there are enough proposals out there that only a handful of groups are focused on. They get little mention in the left blogosphere.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProSense (Reply #13)

Sat Apr 28, 2012, 11:43 PM

16. Until the Democratic Party leadership embraces real change

or the Democratic Party is replaced by a party that represents the 99%, nothing's going anywhere.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #16)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 12:05 AM

31. Well,

"Until the Democratic Party leadership embraces real change
or the Democratic Party is replaced by a party that represents the 99%, nothing's going anywhere."

...that's an interesting attitude because you're waiting for the President to embrace a proposal, and you're waiting for the "Democratic Party leadership embraces real change" or be "replaced."

The proposals I linked to are from Democrats, and the change has to come from you. Certainly, you don't expect them to replace themselves.





Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProSense (Reply #31)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 12:10 AM

33. I campaigned for, donated to, and voted for Change

Then the Change agent called me "fucking retarded" (by proxy, of course).

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #33)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 12:15 AM

36. Doesn't matter

"I campaigned for, donated to, and voted for Change"

...you have to keep working toward progress and stop harping on the petty.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProSense (Reply #36)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 12:18 AM

39. Rising poverty, homelessness and hunger are petty?

I don't think you mean that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #39)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 12:27 AM

46. No

Rising poverty, homelessness and hunger are petty?

I don't think you mean that.


I thnk you know I meant that this was petty: "Then the Change agent called me 'fucking retarded' (by proxy, of course)."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProSense (Reply #46)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 12:34 AM

50. "the Change agent called me 'fucking retarded'" was shorthand

For the wide panoply of actions that said change agent has taken in contradiction to his campaign pledges. Which is why, I maintain, we have rising poverty, homelessness and hunger.

He could call me Limbaugh's weeping anal pustule and I'd be cool, as long as he fought hard for the 99%.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink



Response to ProSense (Reply #56)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 12:57 AM

58. We have rising poverty, homelessness and hunger

Everything else is a detail, really.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProSense (Reply #56)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 11:16 AM

91. I recommend you stop giving us the blue links from hell

and actually turn the computer off, and get off your duff, and go talk to REAL PEOPLE who are NOT doing better.

Yup, you can find them too.

They are not hiding from you.

And I am serious as a heart attack.

Two Americas indeed, and the fun fact in all this is that you are one paycheck away, perhaps two, from joining the one that is suffering. Perhaps that will stop your blue linky nonsense.

Yes in the macro economy things are doing better, but like Mexico in the personal economy of many things are not just not improving but getting worst. Hey at least the Cartels are not shooting the place up! I guess that is a plus.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #91)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 11:36 AM

93. "Hey at least the Cartels are not shooting the place up?"

Not yet anyway. I actually have the feeling that it will be the fascists in the USA shooting the place up, not criminal cartels.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to socialist_n_TN (Reply #93)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 12:45 PM

100. Actually to be fair

there have been a couple shoot outs along border towns that have involved the cartels, on the US side.

I just refuse to cover that story. I like breathing...

But on real background I have gotten that from a few contacts I know in the PD. They are not surprised nobody wants to cover that though.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #91)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 02:19 PM

105. +1

You said it better than I could.




You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their Rose Colored Glasses.
Solidarity99!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #91)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 03:19 PM

111. Not just no, but

hell no. Now deal with it.

Who the hell do you think you are?

I will post as many fucking links as I feel like. Got it?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProSense (Reply #111)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 08:46 PM

124. post as many links as you want

but the people I talk to regularly are not reduced to blue links... at all. They know there is a problem.

Get out of the house and damn it FIND THEM!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink



Response to ProSense (Reply #31)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 08:12 AM

75. Not one of those proposals..

.. would do jack if they were enacted tomorrow.

The time for nibbling at the margins is long past. These little tweaks are like pissing on a forest fire.

As far as I can tell we will be in this mode for many many years. Japan has been here for 20+ and nothing has really improved for them. If we are lucky, we'll just trundle along like this for a couple decades. If not, we will have a complete economic collapse.

And the problems we face are so structural, such as employment moving overseas, the need for the Fed to keep rates absurdly low because of our debt rollover costs (no Timmy, these low rates are NOT good for the economy), the debt and obligations themselves (if you look at the numbers you will conclude as most have that the debt cannot ever be paid in any way and inflating out is the only answer with any possibility of "success"), the similar problems in Europe, the Chinese economic squeeze play (guess what, they don't need us that much any more) and on and on and on.

Academic economists keep expecting this to just correct itself like a normal recession but that is NOT GOING TO HAPPEN and I would think that after fully 3 false starts people would get a clue.

Welcome to the new normal.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProSense (Reply #10)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 02:29 AM

66. Thanks, ProSense. You rock.

I had no idea about this Harkin bill. All the unions (and all of us) should be pushing for that. This bill puts in writing two simple, modest and yet powerful fixes that are popular with almost everyone: raise the minimum wage to $10 and eliminate the income cap on social security taxes. That should be part of the Dem Party Platform. I remember Rachel Maddow doing a segment on how everytime a Dem pushed for a higher min. wage, they tended to win the election. And I seem to recall Obama recommending doing away with that SS income cap. It would make a great campaign issue.

I wish the good stuff that is happening was talked about more here on DU. It really is up to us to change the world. We need to take over the Democratic Party just like the right wing took over the Republican Party. We can't wait for change to happen. We are responsible to make it happen. We need to infiltrate from the bottom up, starting with the school boards and city government. Otherwise, the right takes these seats unopposed. Just volunteering at your local school a few hours a week makes a difference.

I remember the hopelessness I felt for those 8 long years under Bush. I don't feel that way anymore. I feel really lucky to have the President we have. We need to get behind him and roll up our own freaking sleeves rather than just complaining about him not doing enough. As you so ably point out in this thread, he's already done a lot. If we just sit on our asses and let bad news depress us, we end up doing nothing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProSense (Reply #10)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 02:44 AM

68. excellent info

i just dropped email to both my senators
nelson will at least read it
rubio not so much

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProSense (Reply #4)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 12:27 AM

45. I am one of the ones who have been poor for decades and what I am afraid of is that we will be

pushed further down than we already are.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to jwirr (Reply #45)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 09:34 AM

77. Yes,

"I am one of the ones who have been poor for decades and what I am afraid of is that we will be pushed further down than we already are."

Something needs to be done now, but waiting for 2016 or the revolution is equivalent to watching while the situation worsens.

There are a few steps that can help, jobs and increasing the minimum wage among them.

There are good proposals outlining a lot more initiatives: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002623427

Senator Harkin's proposal has been well received.

Praise for Harkin Bill to Rebuild the Middle Class
http://harkin.senate.gov/help/rebuildmiddleclass.cfm

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProSense (Reply #77)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 12:06 PM

97. I agree that 2016 will be too late for many of us. The number of persons relying on the safety net

is increasing and many of the programs (such as Ruby's Kitchen) are over whelmed. Last month at the kitchen there were no potatoes, onions or fresh veggies & fruit of any kind because the ones who usually donated found that the produce was needed in their own communities. That to me says that things are getting much worse. Housing is another area of crisis. In our small community there are no rent controlled housing available for anyone. They are not even giving out housing vouchers to those who have an apartment but are about to lose it because they do not have enough money to afford it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sat Apr 28, 2012, 11:31 PM

5. What can you do? We are the largest debtor nation on Earth

 

as it is.

We could double taxes on the top 20% and barely cut into the debt.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to banned from Kos (Reply #5)

Sat Apr 28, 2012, 11:33 PM

9. FDR's America did it.

We can do it too. But it requires the will.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to banned from Kos (Reply #5)

Sat Apr 28, 2012, 11:36 PM

11. The 'debt' is a bugaboo bandied by right-winger and

 

centrist types to distract people from doing what must be done.

If the debt really were a problem we would see long-term interest rates rising as investors grew more reluctant to lend. They (long-term interest rates) are not rising, because investors are all too willing to take the 2-3% the long bonds offer.

Doubling taxes on the top 20% means nothing in and of itself. But doubling taxes on the top 20% to fund a massive government public works program would mean a revitalization of the American working class.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #11)

Sat Apr 28, 2012, 11:41 PM

15. Well said

Thank you.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #11)

Sat Apr 28, 2012, 11:50 PM

20. Washington's $5 trillion interest bill

 

NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- Interest rates on U.S. bonds may be ridiculously low, but that doesn't mean the country's future interest payments on the national debt will be.

Uncle Sam will shell out more than $5 trillion in interest payments over the next decade, according to the latest projections from the Congressional Budget Office.

-

Over the decade, more than 14% of all revenue the government is projected to collect will be sucked up by interest payments.

-

The CBO assumes that the yield on the 10-year Treasury will rise from an estimated 2.3% this year to 5% by the end of the decade; and the yield on the 3-month T-bill will increase from 0.1% to 3.8% during the same time.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/03/05/news/economy/national-debt-interest/index.htm

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dkf (Reply #20)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 12:00 AM

27. Not sure what your purpose is in posting this pablum from CNN. If long-term

 

interests rate rise, it will probably happen because the economy has recovered some strength and demand for funds has risen, thereby causing the price of funds, i.e., the 'yield,' to increase. If short-term interest rates rise, the Fed will have taken a more active role in stamping out inflationary pressures. (The Fed controls short-term interest rates but not long-term ones.)

Neither eventuality should stand in the way of doing what must be done: raising taxes on the wealthy to repair the safety net the OP alludes to.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #27)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 12:16 AM

37. Demand for U.S. Debt Is Not Limitless In 2011, the Fed purchased a stunning 61% of Treasury issuance

 

The recently released Federal Reserve Flow of Funds report for all of 2011 reveals that Federal Reserve purchases of Treasury debt mask reduced demand for U.S. sovereign obligations. Last year the Fed purchased a stunning 61% of the total net Treasury issuance, up from negligible amounts prior to the 2008 financial crisis. This not only creates the false appearance of limitless demand for U.S. debt but also blunts any sense of urgency to reduce supersized budget deficits.

Still, the outdated notion of never-ending buyers for U.S. debt is perpetuated by many. For instance, in recent testimony before the Senate Budget Committee, former Federal Reserve Board Vice Chairman Alan Blinder said, "If you look at the markets, they're practically falling over themselves to lend money to the federal government." Sadly, that's no longer accurate.
-
But in recent years foreigners and the U.S. private sector have grown less willing to fund the U.S. government. As the nearby chart shows, foreign purchases of U.S. Treasury debt plunged to 1.9% of GDP in 2011 from nearly 6% of GDP in 2009. Similarly, the U.S. private sector—namely banks, mutual funds, corporations and individuals—have reduced their purchases of U.S. government debt to a scant 0.9% of GDP in 2011 from a peak of more than 6% in 2009.
--
The Fed is in effect subsidizing U.S. government spending and borrowing via expansion of its balance sheet and massive purchases of Treasury bonds. This keeps Treasury interest rates abnormally low, camouflaging the true size of the budget deficit. Similarly, the Fed is providing preferential credit to the U.S. government and covering a rapidly widening gap between Treasury's need to borrow and a more limited willingness among market participants to supply Treasury with credit.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304450004577279754275393064.html


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #11)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 12:02 AM

30. Treasury Yields Drop as Fed Buys Longer-Term Securities

 

Treasury 10-year notes rose as the Federal Reserve bought $4.5 billion of government debt in the first of four rounds of purchases over three days that equals the most by the central bank since December.

Yields declined in the first day of trading after the biggest quarterly rout in the U.S. government-bond market since 2010 as policy makers continue to buy debt to ensure borrowing costs remain low as the economy shows signs of strengthening. The drop came even as a report showed manufacturing in the U.S. expanded at a faster pace than forecast in March.

“There’s no supply,” said Ray Remy, head of fixed-income in New York at Daiwa Capital Markets America Inc., one of 21 primary dealers obligated to bid in U.S. debt auctions. “We have buybacks all week.”

Yields on 10-year (USGG10YR) notes fell three basis points, or 0.03 percentage point, to 2.19 percent at 5 p.m. New York time, according to Bloomberg Bond Trader prices. The 2 percent securities maturing in February 2022 rose 7/32, or $2.19 per $1,000 face amount, to 98 12/32.

The central bank is scheduled to purchase as much as $12 billion in Treasuries maturing from July 2018 to February 2042 this week and up to $1.5 billion in inflation-indexed debt. The Fed today purchased Treasuries maturing from May 2020 to November 2021.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-04-01/treasuries-fall-before-factory-employment-reports-this-w

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to banned from Kos (Reply #5)

Sat Apr 28, 2012, 11:40 PM

14. A couple of things to keep in mind:

1. Before Reagan, the US was the largest creditor nation on Earth. Reagan turned us into the largest debtor.

2. The Bush tax cuts alone are responsible for over half our annual deficit.

If we went back to the pre-Reagan tax rates, we would immediately run a large annual surplus which could pay off the national debt in a few years.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to banned from Kos (Reply #5)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 02:37 AM

67. Debt has nothing to do with it.

Government debt is not true debt and we don't need to raise taxes or borrow in order to fix this problem.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to banned from Kos (Reply #5)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 11:29 AM

92. FDR's era went from 32% taxes on the top tier

to 90%... he understood something blue dogs don't. Nor will I bother explaining it. Suffice it to say you too, if you wanted, could learn of this by picking one of these common things called a book.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to banned from Kos (Reply #5)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 11:41 AM

94. And if we doubled the taxes on the top 20%........

that would leave us 30% or so short of the top tax rates in the 50s, a time that, economically anyway, the working class was doing the best it ever has in this country.

Not to mention there needs to be a confiscatory tax on WEALTH in this country, not just income. It never has been a matter of the amount of wealth in the USA. It's ALWAYS been about the distribution of that wealth.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sat Apr 28, 2012, 11:32 PM

7. You're right Manny.

We have one party that fights only for the 1% and another party that won't get in the way of that fight.

Sadly, it's one of those things that will have to get much, much worse before it can get better. The worst part is if it takes too long, better may never be as good as it was and that isn't even all that grand of a goal.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sat Apr 28, 2012, 11:33 PM

8. I agree. Times aren't going to get better for most people.

Democrats need to really do something, but they long ago stopped representing the needy and poor, and now represent affluent with guilty consciences. It just sucks.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to closeupready (Reply #8)

Sat Apr 28, 2012, 11:44 PM

18. Excatly

We already have two parties that stand up for the rich. What we need is a party that says "We stand for working class Americans and no one else. Not the rich, working people." Just to be clear, by working class, I am also including the "middle-class", I just hate that term because it is so vague. Everyone says they are middle-class. Hell, I think Romney did at on point.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sat Apr 28, 2012, 11:43 PM

17. "America has changed." You're so right, Manny. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sat Apr 28, 2012, 11:47 PM

19. This is the fourth year of a recession.

The sky is not falling.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Swede (Reply #19)

Sat Apr 28, 2012, 11:53 PM

22. Fourth year - with nothing changing as far as the eye can see.

That's the problem.

Actually, for the 99%, the decline has been steady since the late 1970s.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #22)

Sat Apr 28, 2012, 11:55 PM

24. Your a glass half empty kind of guy,Manny.

nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Swede (Reply #24)

Sat Apr 28, 2012, 11:59 PM

26. I disagree.

A recent job review by peers, reports, and my boss noted that I have an exceptionally positive and can-do attitude. On a nationwide level. however, I just don't see any change on the horizon, all leaders are calling for the status-quo or worse.

But tell me: what so you see that makes you feel like change is coming? Perhaps I'm wrong. I'd love to be wrong.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #26)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 12:30 AM

48. I'm a glass half full kinda guy.

Perhaps, I too am wrong.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Swede (Reply #48)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 12:36 AM

51. But what do you see, specifically,

that leads you to believe that something different will happen? After this many years, it seems to me that the same actions will yield the same results - no?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #51)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 03:00 AM

69. why is 3.1 million new jobs not a positive thing?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002129028

909,000 in 2010
1.64 million in 2011
and so far (provisional)
635,000 for 2012

That's not spectacular, especially for a recovery, but it's not nothing, and it also definitely not a negative.

Further, (and again) I still think the whole 99% is a bit misplaced. Like somebody in the 95th percentile is suffering just like a homeless or unemployed person. Like somebody in the 90th percentile is even in the same boat as me in the 30th percentile.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hfojvt (Reply #69)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 09:44 AM

78. Less than breakeven, after population gain

We need 125,000 new jobs each month to account for the population gain among working-age folks.

And the new jobs are worse than the jobs that were lost.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hfojvt (Reply #69)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 12:54 PM

102. While job growth is possitive

it is also about the TYPE of jobs.

I am sorry but middle class jobs replaced by service jobs that are at best lower middle class, are not exactly good or portend social stability long term.

We have also been in this song and dance for thirty years... but I am sure you knew this.

Things will change, it will be seemingly dramatic, and sudden... seemingly. Those of us who have been paying attention to these trends know that things are bubbling and that will only increase...

But yes, job creation is far better than it was, even if not enough either to account for population growth.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #102)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 03:15 PM

110. I have a service job now

and I'm perhaps middle-middle class now.

Back in the 1990s I had a factory job that made me lower class - I made 160% of the poverty level, making satellite dishes.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Swede (Reply #19)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 12:01 AM

28. 16 million children go to bed hungry at some point during each week. But

 

the sky is not falling.

BTW, this is not the 4th year of recession (as economists use the term). Recession officially ended in 2010.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sat Apr 28, 2012, 11:52 PM

21. Sadly, the good years of America, post WWII, might have been an

anomaly. And with all of the surveillance, fading civil liberties, increasingly dumbed down citizens and more and more police tactics, it's pretty clear the oligarchy is planning to keep it as it, a failed country for the many, but highly profitable for the few.

It well might take a generation or two for corrections, many of us will have been long gone. The concentration of wealth in this country will ensure the above, the question is, how does one simply circumvent the need for them. Maybe our paradigm is wrong.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sat Apr 28, 2012, 11:55 PM

23. At the end of WW II, the US had half the industrial capacity in the world, and all gold in Ft Knox

But the rest of the world has rebuilt, and we've lived through the good times.

The good times are over.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sat Apr 28, 2012, 11:56 PM

25. I see you live in reality.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 12:02 AM

29. At the risk of sounding like an Obama apologist,

I know that Tavis Smiley means well, but I think people like him and Cornell West who criticize Obama and the Democrats from the left should keep in mind that when Obama first got in office, he said that our country will not get fixed overnight. To PBO's defense, I think both he and the Democratic Party do have our best interests at heart and don't just cater to the 1%, but they have had to put up with constant obstruction from the opposition in order to get more accomplished for us. He was even trying to get a Jobs Plan passed last year, but it failed.

Let's just be thankful that the Iraq War is over and the Afghan War is ending, we have had twenty-five straight months of private sector job growth, unemployment is lowering in states like Ohio, DADT has been repealed, and that the Detroit auto bailout was a success. That's my $0.02.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Jamaal510 (Reply #29)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 12:08 AM

32. I believed Obama called for 2 jobs bills - and one did pass

The three Bush "free" trade agreements that were signed into law last November.

Do you think these "free" trade bills are helpful to the 99%?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 12:12 AM

35. Per usual I like to remind folks of history

what you are describing is the 1880s and 18890s to a T... also the 1920s.

Change will come suddenly, and seemingly out of the blue... Occupy is the beginning as to the reason why. We are at one of those moments... and yes it seemed to people at the time that nothing would change either. Just read Debb's writings for example.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #35)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 12:16 AM

38. Even in 1929, America was four years from change

But things did change very quickly from 1932-1933. Unless something really different happens, change comes with the elections. In the 2012 elections, there will be either no change or change for the worse. I can't see a real change happening until after the 2016 elections - that will give us a shot at a President who's willing and able to turn things around, and enough time to pick up sufficient seats in Congress to aid in the process.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #38)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 12:23 AM

40. Really?

"In the 2012 elections, there will be either no change or change for the worse. I can't see a real change happening until after the 2016 elections - that will give us a shot at a good President, and enough time to pick up sufficient seats in Congress.'

What dyanamic are you imagining will change in 2016?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProSense (Reply #40)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 12:25 AM

43. The same dynamic that we had in 2008.

But the candidates would actually need to carry through on their pledges.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #43)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 12:38 AM

54. Again

The same dynamic that we had in 2008.

But the candidates would actually need to carry through on their pledges.


...what dynamic do you see changing? What if the President is a Republican? Do you put off working for change until 2020?


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProSense (Reply #54)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 12:52 AM

57. I will work for change - but only with people who also want it

For example, today's Democratic leaders seem to enjoy the status quo, so appealing directly to them for change is of questionable value. But working for FDR Democrats like Elizabeth Warren - I suspect that's worthwhile. Occupy's had some excellent success, so that seems to be a good channel too. And so forth.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #57)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 12:58 AM

59. Please do

"For example, today's Democratic leaders seem to enjoy the status quo, so appealing directly to them for change is of questionable value. But working for FDR Democrats like Elizabeth Warren - I suspect that's worthwhile. Occupy's had some excellent success, so that seems to be a good channel too. And so forth."

...support Elizabeth Warren. She is remarkable.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #38)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 12:23 AM

41. Or 2012, remember the changes came due to pressure form the streets

the only reason why it might happen "faster" is that things are moving faster due to social media, not any other reason. But they always seem to have the same dynamic.

The 1880s took all the way to the 1910s for the Progressives to finally start kicking some ass. 1929 took four years.


If the elite feels threatened...

Me, will try to document as much of "the street" as possible.

(And also the shenanigans in my local city council... yup I drew the short straw, in a few months I should be able to tell trends from pubic comment... but one reason why the shenanigans go on is developers are there... citizens not so much)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #41)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 12:30 AM

49. Nadin, thank you

Not only are you smart and learned... your attitude is always positive and you get up off your duff and jump into the fray.

A beacon of light on DU.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #41)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 10:03 AM

81. That is why the one percent

are going after social media.

I am worried about the freedom and privacy of our internets, and phones, and etc.

Thank you for your constant news and hope.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to woo me with science (Reply #81)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 10:54 AM

87. Trust me city council IS a snoozer

and that is on purpose too.

This afternoon I got a protest to go cover... YEAH... have not done any street work in a while... came sick as a dog from Mexico City and it takes energy to do these things. Slowly getting back in shape too.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #41)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 08:00 PM

122. Dramatic changes in society seem to occur

At the same time as advances in media. Think printing press/revolutionary war, radio/great depression, social media/today....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to abelenkpe (Reply #122)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 08:51 PM

126. In all fairness...

the printing press was around for a couple of centuries in Europe before the U.S. Revolutionary War.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 12:25 AM

42. Manny, are you familiar with the recently released book "Why Nations Fail" by

Daron Acemoglu and James Robinson?

http://www.amazon.com/Why-Nations-Fail-Origins-Prosperity/dp/0307719219

I was just starting to skim through it today in a Barnes and Noble after hearing Chris Hayes mention it as a teaser last week, and how much he was fascinated by it. The premise of the book is that political institutions are the driving force behind whether a nation prospers or not, and that the growing economic inequality that exists in the U.S. today puts in genuine danger of becoming a failed state ourselves.

Acemoglu is going to be one of Chris Hayes' guests on his show tomorrow morning (Sunday April 29) at 8:00 A.M. EDT.

Oh, like I even have to add K&R!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bullwinkle428 (Reply #42)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 12:27 AM

44. I will load the first chapter into my Kindle

and check it out.

Thanks for the tip!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #44)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 12:38 AM

53. You didn't have to pawn your Kindle for dog food!?!

Wow. Puttin' on the Ritz in Manny Goldsteinland.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #53)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 01:02 AM

60. Actually, the Goldsteins are doing reasonably OK

Last edited Sun Apr 29, 2012, 01:38 AM - Edit history (1)

Not 1% material, but pretty good.

But when I heard Tavis Smiley's guests tonight I thought "hey... they sound kinda like me".

Scary, scary stuff.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 12:28 AM

47. Well, we're trying to get more support for the General Strike on Tuesday, May 1.

Come on out and join us, Manny. We could use another warm body out there, and another voice, to help us stop the injustice.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zorra (Reply #47)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 01:08 AM

61. I have to check that out

Is there an organized group involved? Or should each of us freelance?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink



Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 12:43 AM

55. I want to set up a business and my mind has been working over time

to figure out how to get something that will get the 1% to part with their money, because that is how it has to be done. I know how cheap these assholes are too because I have worked for them before.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 01:30 AM

62. Join Occupy.

Change will happen when the poeple make it happen.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 01:40 AM

64. +1000

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 02:15 AM

65. DU Rec. It's not just a bad economy. It's a purposeful restructuring of where the wealth goes,

in which both parties have been and continue to be complicit. None of this has happened by accident.

Yes, the past four years have taught us that hope will not come at the ballot box in 2012. My biggest concern is that, while they continue their restructuring to funnel wealth to the one percent over the next four years, they will also be continuing their construction of the police/surveillance state that will deter or suppress resistance. Another four years is too long to permit them to do that without serious opposition.

My hope is that all of us wake up and demand change before they make demanding change much, much more difficult.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to woo me with science (Reply #65)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 07:38 AM

73. ^^^this

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 04:13 AM

70. Occupy. Nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to xchrom (Reply #70)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 07:21 AM

72. Occupy and achieve what?

 

Occupy has shown us so far that they are easy to disperse, they do not stand and fight and the police and PTB will use everything at their disposal to go after Occupy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to estiparanoic (Reply #72)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 10:57 AM

88. Disperse? We haven't gone anywhere.

If it seems like people who would ordinarily support the Democrats are skeptical or are unenthusiastic, it is because we know that the political contest is a sideshow. The reason it is “Occupy Wall Street” and not “Occupy the Capitol” is because we know that Washington is a puppet theater and that gambling on change by playing party politics is a sucker’s game. Again, the idea is not simply to replace leaders or to enact specific reforms. OWS seeks to replace the entire political, social, and economic culture with a wider sense of human community. It already conducts itself in that manner. Rather than leaders with the prerogative to make decisions for the group, OWS operates on consensus. It is clear from the past ten or twelve years that there is no political, institutional solution for what ails us. Fortunately, we do not need one.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002579714

Occupy: M1GS, May 1 General Strike!

http://www.occupymay1st.org/2012/04/11/what-is-m1gs/

What is #M1GS?

Worldwide, May 1st is traditionally a ‘Workers’ day – a day of Labor Solidarity, and a public holiday. It’s a day to celebrate and march in support of im/migrant rights. In protest against the corruption of the worldwide marketplace, which has led to illegal foreclosures, mass unemployment, low wages, high taxes and a penalization of all those who do not own the ‘99%’ of the world’s resources, and in solidarity with the im/migrant movements of May 1st, we decided to declare May 1st, 2012 a People’s General Strike. Instead of calling upon unionized Labor to make a specific demand (illegal under Taft-Hartley), we are calling upon the people of the world to take this day away from school and the workplace, so that their absence makes their displeasure with this corrupt system be known.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zorra (Reply #88)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 11:42 AM

95. Revolution is a noble goal which I fully support

 

I question the resolve of the people in the street’s I just don’t see it going further than mass arrests.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to estiparanoic (Reply #95)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 12:48 PM

101. Do you believe Occupy needs to employ violent actions in order to achieve our goals? nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zorra (Reply #101)

Fri May 4, 2012, 05:17 AM

132. Seeing that I am not a member of Occupy I cannot nor will not speak for them

 

nor will I pretend to speak for them.

Occupy members can do what they want to achieve their goals.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zorra (Reply #88)

Fri May 4, 2012, 05:22 AM

134. Ture Occupy is still arownd

 

and for the most part I do agree with Occupy, I just think their current methods are pointless, a waste of time and will not achieve the change they are looking for.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to estiparanoic (Reply #72)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 12:13 PM

98. Occupy has changed the converstion

There is now a national realization that the 1% are waging war on the 99%. We may not agree on *how* to turn it around, but at least the problem is recognized by most.

In this, Occupy has been the most successful (in a positive sense) movement in more than 30 years.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to estiparanoic (Reply #72)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 12:56 PM

104. You're right. I give up.

Enjoy your stay.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #104)

Fri May 4, 2012, 05:19 AM

133. I know I am right that is why I posted it.

 

You want to give up that is your choice to freely make on your own.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to estiparanoic (Reply #72)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 02:40 PM

107. Occupy is fluid, when 'dispersed' in one place, it finds another level to operate.

They can't 'cut off the head' as there is no head. If it encounters a boulder, it doesn't try to move it, it goes around it and continues on.

It was designed this way, intentionally. Did you think they did not know the efforts that would be made to 'disperse' them? They did, and in fact in its initial stages they would have been happy to have occupied Zuccotti Park for a few weeks. Their success exceeded, and continues to exceed, their most optimistic expectations. That is because they gave voice to millions of people who had no voice before. And those numbers will only grow, globally, as the situation worsens for more people. Which it will until those running this global disaster are held accountable for what they have done and until the money that has poisoned the political systems worldwide, is removed from politics.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #107)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 03:39 PM

115. +1

Thanks for the positive view.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 07:54 AM

74. There are no easy answers but...

the work environment has changed dramatically in this country. There are not enough jobs for the number of people that need them. The market cannot create enough jobs. That is the present reality. The only employer left is our government. Government will need to put people to work to prevent civil unrest and anarchy. Jobs will have to be created if they don't exist at present.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kentuck (Reply #74)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 09:10 PM

128. Too many people

and not enough jobs. Technology is consistently replacing jobs and we continue to multiply. There is no answer that is going to fix this that is acceptable to our nation as it thinks now.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 09:20 AM

76. Please

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 09:52 AM

79. A return to the politics of dead center,

without the safety valve of the westward expansion.

The recovery is crawling to a halt, before most people even got the chance to feel it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 10:13 AM

83. Yes we are. It's very frustrating that we elect

and work for Democrats to get them into office, and then we are expected to push, beg and plead with them to do what we sent them there to do. Rec

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Autumn (Reply #83)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 10:21 AM

84. That's

"It's very frustrating that we elect and work for Democrats to get them into office, and then we are expected to push, beg and plead with them to do what we sent them there to do."

...how it's suppose to work. "Make me do it." It doesn't end with voting.

I mean, the few progressive Democrats can't pass votes on their own. You can bet the conservatives are a constant voice in the ear of Congress.

Take the recent vote to repeal oil subsidies:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002489532

Could Begich, Landrieu and Webb be pressured?

We don't vote for every Senator, only the two that represent us. Imagine the Democrat who has two Republican Senators.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProSense (Reply #84)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 10:33 AM

85. Of course we don't vote for every Senator



That was never implied in my post. I'm talking about the "Democrat" I VOTED for,
who when I have called him has gotten nasty and ignored the Democratic platform to side with the pukes against the Democrats.
As I was told, he doesn't need my vote.

"I mean, the few progressive Democrats can't pass votes on their own. You can bet the conservatives are a constant voice in the ear of Congress."

Fuck conservatives and republicans, I don't vote for those bastards, but when I vote for a "Democrat" he should realize that I voted for him to at least stand up and vote for Democratic values, and I shouldn't have to fucking make him do it.
I did my job now he should do his.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Autumn (Reply #85)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 10:59 AM

89. And

Fuck conservatives and republicans, I don't vote for those bastards, but when I vote for a "Democrat" he should realize that I voted for him to at least stand up and vote for Democratic values, and I shouldn't have to fucking make him do it.
I did my job now he should do his.


...that means different things to different Democrats. Core values are not the problem. Democrats will support these. Not all policies are cut and dry. Remember, there were several progressive Democrats supporting coal. Politicians will engage in self-preservation. If they hear from only one set of constituents (like fracking in NY or Keystone, which has union support), that will in some ways impact their decision-making process (sometimes, not all the time). If you think your job ends at voting, then there is no reason for contacting Senators, petitions or Occupy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProSense (Reply #89)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 11:09 AM

90. Thanks for sharing your opinion

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 11:46 AM

96. why don't they just borrow 20 grand from their parents?

jeez does mitt romney have to think of everything?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 12:29 PM

99. K&R. Want to watch this one. n/t

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 12:55 PM

103. Just tonight?

I thought you'd figured that one out a while ago.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #103)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 02:24 PM

106. You can know things intellectually,

..but it takes some time and process to internalize that knowledge,
and then it becomes REAL,
like a kick in the guts.


Opportunities like we had in 2008 come only once in a generation.
This one was squandered,
and it will be a LONG time before that kind of opportunity comes around again.
Welcome to the New Normal.



You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.
Solidarity99!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bvar22 (Reply #106)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 02:40 PM

108. That's it. That's exactly it.

Listening on the radio to folks whose lives have been ripped apart for years. My young son sitting next to me: the realization that this badness is here probably until he's ready for college. BANG. Most of his childhood will have been spent in an America where working folks are being picked clean for sport.

It's not right.

And virtually nobody who has the power to quickly effect change is working to do so. The 99% have ourselves, and that's about it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 02:58 PM

109. There is some hope Manny.

Our neighbors in Latin America have successfully wrested their governments away from the Oligarchs.
"The worst enemy of humanity is U.S. capitalism. That is what provokes uprisings like our own, a rebellion against a system, against a neoliberal model, which is the representation of a savage capitalism. If the entire world doesn't acknowledge this reality, that nation states are not providing even minimally for health, education and nourishment, then each day the most fundamental human rights are being violated."
----Bolivian Reform President Evo Morales


They have given us a Blue Print for "change".
When the Working Class & The Poor realize we have more in common with each other
than we have in common with the 1% and their employees in Washington,
we can have "change".
As long as we are kept divided by the Media and the Two dominant Parties who will fight to keep the national dialog focused on the very narrow gap between the two parties,
the Status Quo WILL be maintained, or get worse.

What is happening in Latin America gives me hope for the World,
but you won't hear about it from the US Media,
and BOTH Political parties will Demonize the successful Populist Movement in Central & South America.

They had one advantage we don't have.
They have transparent, verifiable elections with Exit Polls and International Observers.
We don't have that here,
and neither Political party is remotely interested in giving that to us.


The surprising thing is that FDR said much the same thing as Bolivian Reform President Evo Morales did in the above quote
in his Economic Bill of Rights presented during the SOTU, 1944:
"In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed.

Among these are:

*The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

*The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

*The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

*The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

*The right of every family to a decent home;

*The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

*The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

*The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

America's own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for all our citizens.---FDR, 1944

At one time, voting for The Democrats WAS voting for those values.
Sadly, this is no longer true.

FDR and THAT "Democratic Party" are long gone,
but there IS precedent and wide support for those values HERE,.... TODAY.
ALL we need is a loud enough voice.

I fear things will get worse before they get better.
Protect yourself and those you love.

Spread the WORD.
VIVA Democracy!!!
I pray we get some here soon.


Solidarity99!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------





Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 03:22 PM

112. This is post-Obama first term?

 

That can't be.
Surely you have something better in the midst of this Obama campaign season.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 03:26 PM

113. I realized over 30 years ago that America's 99% were fucked for years to come

I wish more of my fellow citizens had realized what was happening back then.

Could have saved a lot of people much pain and suffering.

Don

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 05:22 PM

117. You just learned this?

 

I knew it about 30 years ago. I guess some people are slower than others eh? LOL

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 06:52 PM

119. Many 99-ers have (and continue) to f*ck themselves.

Much of today's pain was legally enacted by elected officials and judges that the 99% put into office. I'm very sobered by the fact that our friends, coworkers, family and even ourselves continue to support socially and economically retrograde policies.

Anything could happen in November.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 07:00 PM

120. Everyone is Screwed, except for those who Enjoy our Present Economic Climate

That's all this really comes down to. I could care less of party affiliation today, though I am registered as a den to effect the party locally. I have seen what "some" democrats think when it comes to policy. Call me a "purist", and I'll call you the ideological fraud you are.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 08:07 PM

123. Conditions will dictate -

at some point folks will have lost so much that they will fight back one way or another. The loss of civil liberties makes that a bigger task.

I wish I could be more optimistic.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 08:49 PM

125. Nothing is over until WE decide it is....

Ok. WE are the 99%. All the 1% have is money...our money. The money that they got through tax breaks, tax reductions, bailouts and sweetheart deals. The the money they loaned to our governments that should have been wage raises now are interest payments TO THEM that is rightfully OURS.
The Koch Brothers and their lackeys need all that money because they have to persuade some of us that a pig with lipstick is really pretty when we all know it's just a pig with lipstick and you need a lot of money to do that. Every one of us has our vote, and a voice. Think of Tommy Douglas; the Baptist minister from Scotland who got National Healthcare into Canada, who today is now considered "The Greatest Canadian". Think of all of those men and women who fought for the right to form a union and then got concessions and benefits that became the bedrock of the middle class. Think of Robert "Fighting Bob LaFollette, who fought for women's suffrage, labor reforms and recognized early on the dominance of corporations. Think of Paul Wellstone, who fought in the Senate for issues such as the environment, labor and health care. Most of all think of your mothers, fathers and grandparents; the people who worked hard all their lives, who fought in the wars and conflicts that made it possible for the Koch Brothers and these ungrateful Republicans to have the millions that they now enjoy and who now want to throw them into complete and utter destitution. What will we do about this? Do we let them get away with this? I say NO! I won't rest until every corrupt and useless politician is out of positions of power. Whether it take years or generations, does not matter. Until WE drive every moneychanger out of the temple of governnment, we will not rest, we will not sleep, we will prevail. If not now when? If not you, who?

If you need motivation; I've got some for you here:

(Adam Clayton Powell's speech "What's In Your Hand?")

(Paul Wellstone on Grassroots Leadership)

(Tommy Douglas' "Mouseland")

(Bluto Blutarsky's Speech from "Animal House")

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 09:06 PM

127. Heck. On TV tonight the Government was defending torture. For the Homeland you know> n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 09:42 PM

130. There is a massive hole in the safety net

poverty is increasing, we should be getting money to those at the bottom.

Why are we putting water on the house next to the one on fire? They don't need tax cuts, but these people need help, why are they being told once again wait.

They were told to wait until the banks and wall street was bailed out. They were told to wait during the debt ceiling crisis, the Healthcare crisis...wait wait wait.

Poverty is increasing at an alarming rate. If that fact doesn't scare the shit out of you I don't know what will.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sun Apr 29, 2012, 10:18 PM

131. Just think about it....the 99% work their whole lives, many of them, just

to have everything, including their home, any money at all, personal belongings sucked up at the end years by medical, assisted living, nursing homes, etc..... they suck the last possible life blood out of you after you toiled for THEM for years. And the kicker is THEY own those corporations and industries!!!!!!!!!!!
And if they don't get it the Government makes sure it gets it through Medicaid, etc.......it all goes folks!
You work just to die poor!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri May 4, 2012, 05:29 AM

135. Too many DUMB voters is the problem!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread