Here. 30 years of economic injustice. What is your plan, "status quoe'rs"?

[Bonobo]

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/02/income-inequality-in-america-chart-graph

Maybe I just don't understand. I know... bad advice. etc. But try explaining it to me again.

How does this get better? Does one of these seemingly conservative candidates SURPRISE us by doing something completely out of their nature all of a sudden?

Here is the last 30 years. See a deepening trend? Can you explain to me how continuing to vote for kinda conservative Dems who are deeply indebted to Wall Street and the usual power brokers is going to change this?

[WillyT]

1. If Their Bubble Is Well Appointed... They Don't Give One Crap About Your Bubble...

[Bonobo]

2. I don't even need specifics, just the basic theory...

1. We have, over 30 years, been reliably voting for the Dems that are put up.

2. Now, in these techie days, they KNOW us better than ever. They count us. They know what cars we drive, what cereal we eat and they sure as fuck know how we are supposed to vote. We are, quite literally, taken for granted.

3. A line is established between the two parties. It is a drifting line, a line dependent on how "crazy" the other side seems, but it is a well-known line. As long as that line exists, our votes are virtually guaranteed.

4. But what if they weren't? What if they actually had to be fought for? What if mass numbers actually threatened to upturn the apple cart and as a block demanded that their needs be attended to? Last time I checked, 99% of the people fit into that category. Sadly they are divided up by stuff meant to keep us at each other's throats.


Once again, what is the THEORY even about how things are supposed to get better by continuing to vote as automatons that are already CALCULATED INTO THE MIX?

[WillyT]

3. Sadly... It's The Theory Of Winning The Next Election...

[Bonobo]

6. It seems a short-term POV vs a longer term POV that can not be reconciled.

As long as:

"But what about [fill in the blank]!!!"

...is the rallying cry, we will continue to allow them to pull the wool over our eyes.

[WillyT]

8. They're All About Short-Term... Do They Care About Their Kids... Grandkids ???

Great-Grandkids ???

Doubt it.

[Bonobo]

9. Nope, they define short term (always) as the next 4 years. nt

[ND-Dem]

4. The Party functionaries are not going to change it, because they belong to the oligarchs.

Any change will have to come from the people, & I'm less optimistic about it all the time.


The fascists came with chains and war
To prison us in hate.
And many a good man fought and died
To save the stricken faith.

And now again the madmen come,
And should our victory fail?
There is no victory in a land
Where free men go to jail.

Isn't this a time!
Isn't this a time!
A time to try the soul of man,
Isn't this a terrible time?

How many times we've gone to kill
In freedom's holy name.
And children died to save the pride
Of rulers without shame.

Informers took their Judas pay
To tell their sorry tale
And gangs in Congress had their way
And free souls went to jail

http://www.lyricsmania.com/wasnt_that_a_time_lyrics_pete_seeger.html

[Bonobo]

7. That brutal reality has been known since the start of civilization.

How is it that people seem now to be so "sheepfully" unaware if its truth?

[hifiguy]

24. 24/7/365 propaganda called "news" from the M$M

which are owned exclusively by the oligarchs.

And anyone who expects The Woman From Goldman to do anything about this situation should put down the damn crack pipe.

[bigwillq]

5. K and R

[BrotherIvan]

10. Here's what is music to the oligarch's ears:

I will vote for "the Democrat" no matter what.

This is primary season, the time when Democrats get to decide who will represent them in the general election. But if the party leaders know--and they do--that you will vote for whomever they choose, there is no need to put up someone who matches your values. You could put up as conservative a candidate as you like, and you know that the rank and file will fall in line. Best recent example: Romney, whom the base despised and the rest loathed. But who did they vote for? Romney.

That's why we always hear, "Where else you gonna go?" Along with cries that it's those dirty hippie far fringe left liberal libertarians that have cost every Democratic loss. Because, man, it is their duty to vote for whomever we say. Capiche?

But take heart! There is a poll on DU right now asking if "you will vote for the lesser of two evils" (i.e. will you vote for whomever the is the Democratic nominee)?

As of this writing, the totals are

No 35 28%
Yes 90 72%

Now, this looks very grim, right? And the argument could be made that it is not representational of the wider population of registered Democrats. But that little 28% is very powerful. It's big enough to pull the party to the left. Because if the party disregards that 28% and runs a candidate that does not address their issues, they have only themselves to blame when their candidate loses. That is what the discussion should be. Let them know that a sizable chunk of the base will not fall in line.

If the party knows--and they do--that they can enrich themselves and make their masters fat and you got nowhere to go, why on earth would they change?

[Bonobo]

11. Well stated.

It seems obvious to me and maybe you, but it amazes me how this most vital of all questions can be so easily glossed over with the same re-hashed rhetoric of "If you don't vote for XXX< you are helping the Republicans"

Though it is true to some extent, it ignores the deeper peril of continually failing to vote for someone who represents your interests. If someone says you can either eat shit or piss, your choice of piss, although marginally better, does not reflect the reality that you could also go into the kitchen and grab what some of them are eating in there too.

[BrotherIvan]

13. It is the primary, so the Republican canard is meaningless

They said Obama was too liberal to win the general. They said Obama was too black to sway independents. All this talk that Hillary is the only one who can win is just blather.

[jeepers]

27. If as a democratic voter you refuse to vote your conscience

but make the choice to vote for the sure winner or the anointed one, then your party no longer needs to represent you and sooner than later you will lose your party.
If on the other hand you vote your conscience the loser is forced to re-evaluate their position and ask themselves how to regain the votes they lost if they ever want to win again.

To continue this bland rhapsody of shaming those of us who will vote our conscience is to be a good German, to do as you are told, to ignore the truth that is right in front of you and to become part of the injustice.

[aspirant]

15. Stand up, now

With the Loyal Left Dems + Loyal left Independents we hold the key to winning and they know it.

The time has come that we get our just rewards. If they want our votes, they're not coming free.

Compose a Grand Dem. Compromise and if they ignore us then we stand united and HRC loses.

The Dem Party is split, the Loyal Left and the Selfish Corporatists and the only way the Party wins is unification.

If the corporatists don't care if it is Bush or Clinton we have called them out and everyone now sees they are the Emperors without clothes.

If they use the repub tactics of hate (you're not a Democratic if you don't vote for the nominee, so leave the party) and fear (SCOTUS will doom us) and won't compromise, it is they who will elect a repub President.

[LWolf]

19. That 72%

Has been conditioned into one-way-street loyalty.

[BrotherIvan]

20. But to say, up front, that you will vote for whomever even at the primary stage

It's as simple as a poor person voting Republican. It is voting against your best interests. We're talking about the primaries here, the time where we get to say who represents us. I think a populist can win. But if the party fights him, then someone like a Sanders has no chance. The Republicans did it to McCain and that's why he turned into a bitter old coot. I personally don't think Democrats have the werewithal to actually flip an election like Republicans, but they sure know how to torpedo one.

Why not let them know what WE want. I'm sure they can do the math that they need that lowly 28%.

[hifiguy]

25. No more lesser of two evils for me.

I have hit what I call The Popeye Point with conserva-dems, DINOs, "Democrats" who support Repuke trampling of the poor, working and middle classes, warmongering, endless military spending, spying and corporatism and all the rest of it.

[dreamnightwind]

12. That is the right question

and of course the Hillary supporters (using her as an example of the corporatists, not unique to her though) have absolutely no answer. They aren't even working on a solution, they don't see it as much of a problem, or if they do they still don't see it as their problem, their demographic is doing quite well and the rest of us are sore losers.

I like the increased focus on wealth inequality that came out of the Occupy movement, it became part of the cultural awareness and serves us well.

Even leaving aside such class issues, a long-term rather than short-term approach would get us on the right track. Think 7 generations ahead, for example, when thinking about energy policy, climate change, resource conservation, honoring peace activists rather than soldiers, real social security rather than an impoverished underclass who must be controlled and incarcerated, working for a non-destructive life and livelihood where you have your needs met and can live harmoniously in your environment rather than trying to "win the future" as if it is some massive competitive resource grab to get all you can while you can.

This is not crazy left-wing extremism, it is the only sane way to approach inhabiting this earth.

The current "centrists" who control our party have absolutely no awareness of or plan to deal with the world in these terms. Nothing but scorched earth, kill or be killed, wealth horders, greedy materialism and disingenuous triangulation while our nation and our planet collapses.

[davidn3600]

14. Hillary supporters have no answer

...just vote for whatever lesser evil can beat the Republicans.

We can worry about real change in a few generations when we turn Texas blue and crush the GOP in demographics. Great idea. I just hope there is a middle class left by the time this Democrat political utopia occurs.

[MattSh]

16. I doubt if they even understand the question... nt

[pampango]

17. Similar to FDR: Higher/progressive taxes, better safety net, more regulations, stronger unions. n/t

[Scuba]

18. So let's be "pragmatic" and vote for another "centrist" so we can "win" and get more of the same.

[randome]

21. The past 30 years was mostly Republican administrations, you know.

If we'd stop voting them in, we'd stop having more of them. Sure, gerrymandering helps but it's not the entire picture.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"The whole world is a circus if you know how to look at it."
Tony Randall, 7 Faces of Dr. Lao (1964)[/center][/font][hr]

[Bonobo]

22. Not really. Do the math. Nt

[nomorenomore08]

23. Everything you say is true. And yet, we can't afford another right-wing Repub President either.

At this point I'm just kind of beating my head against the wall...

[Ramses]

26. Ive read here that nothing can be done

until all social injustices are fixed in this country
Ive also read to shut up and ignore it because Hillary sucks a bit less.

Fuck that noise

[Bonobo]

28. Quite interesting that this OP has received no kickback from the "pragmatists". nt

[Ramses]

29. They like to target new members like me with false accusations

Ive been accused of posting here before under other names, when Ive only signed up once here ever. I just don't fit the "support Hillary no matter what" mold like millions of other Americans, so being a new member must make me a good target. It doesnt bother me in the least. I know what my values are and I dont let others name calling and abuse affect me in the slightest. I already have a very good idea who to stay away from here, but I refuse to use ignore.

[Bonobo]

30. Welcome to DU! nt

[Ramses]

31. thank you