Russia shelling Ukraine across the countries’ shared border, according to forensic analysis

[SidDithers]

http://www.smh.com.au/world/russia-shelling-ukraine-across-the-countries-shared-border-according-to-forensic-analysis-20150217-13hmgr.html

Satellite images on Google Earth prove that Russia has been shelling Ukraine across the countries' shared border, according to a new forensic analysis of 1353 artillery craters in Eastern Ukraine.

There is "compelling evidence that artillery attacks on Ukrainian territory and against Ukrainian armed forces originated from the territory of Russia" in July and August last year, concludes the Bellingcat report.

Bellingcat is an international group of volunteers, both experts and amateurs informally led by Briton Eliot Higgins, who co-ordinate their 'crowdsourced' work on social media.

Since July last year Ukraine has accused Russia of directly attacking its territory – though the claims were officially denied.

Bellingcat used new satellite imagery from Google showing the Ukraine-Russia border between mid-July to the end of August. They found artillery impact craters and used their distinctive 'arrow' shape to determine the trajectory of the original fire.

They then tracked back along that line, and found burn marks (from the rocket launch exhaust) and tyre tracks at likely firing positions – inside Russian territory and aimed at Ukraine.

At one location they found 813 craters indicating six separate attacks from five different directions, all but one of which was "clearly within the territory of Russia," the report said.

Bellingcat also used geolocation techniques on amateur YouTube video of rocket volleys, to show they were being fired from Russia at Ukraine positions. These positions matched those calculated from the crater analysis.

The Putin boot-lickers will have an answer for this, surely.

Sid

[hobbit709]

1. they will say that since they fired on the fascist warmongers it is perfectly justified.

[randome]

2. Obama PUT those shell casings there!

After using his insidious fingerprint-copier handshake move on Putin!
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)[/center][/font][hr]

[polly7]

3. Duplicate.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141016680

The warmonger slipper-suckers have already tried.

[randome]

4. Eh. That's LBN. This is GD. We can mock Putin and RT all we want!

[hr][font color="blue"][center]A 90% chance of rain means the same as a 10% chance:
It might rain and it might not.[/center][/font][hr]

[polly7]

5. I couldn't care less what you do.

I'm having a great time looking at all the threads stating there may be peace.

[snooper2]

20. Peace only if asshole Putin the warmonger stops his bullshit

[polly7]

22. Asshole Putin's resolution to the UN 'for peace' was unanimously agreed to.

I bet McCain and Nuland are PISSED, eh?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026239842

[NuclearDem]

26. Given that this whole debacle was started

by Putin flagrantly violated an international agreement over Ukraine, you thinking Putin's sincere with that is laughable.

The ruble's in a nosedive and the Russian economy is tanking, and now Putin's trying to make that all go away.

[polly7]

27. LOL. That's funny.

by Konstanin Kosaretsky / February 11th, 2015

The attitudes of Crimeans were studied in January 2015. This representative sample included 800 respondents living on the peninsula, from all age and social categories. The poll had an error margin of 3.5%.

In answer to the most important question: “Do you endorse Russia’s annexation of Crimea?” 82% of the respondents answered “yes, definitely,” and another 11% – “yes, for the most part.” Only 2% gave an unambiguously negative response, and another 2% offered a relatively negative assessment. Three percent did not specify their position.

We feel that this study fully validates the results of the referendum on reunification with Russia that was held on March 16, 2014. At that time 83% of Crimeans went to the polling stations and almost 97% expressed support for reunification.

Ukrainians continue to question whether this was a credible outcome, but it is now backed up by the data obtained by the Germans. The 82% of the respondents who expressed their full confidence in the results of the Russian election make up the core of the electorate who turned up at the ballot boxes on March 16, 2014.

And now the moment of truth: “What is your opinion of what is being written by the Ukrainian media about Crimea?” Who could be a more objective judge on this issue than the residents of the peninsula themselves? Who else but they – who have been fated to experience all the pros and cons of both Ukrainian and Russian citizenship – could better evaluate the accuracy of the information being published? Perhaps no one.

Full article: http://dissidentvoice.org/2015/02/german-sociologists-on-crimeas-choice/

"Who could be a more objective judge on this issue than the residents of the peninsula themselves?" Who indeed?

[NuclearDem]

28. Doesn't change the fact that Russia agreed to respect Ukraine's territorial integrity

and then violated it by invading and annexing part of Ukraine. But fuck international law as long as you're greeted as liberators!

I'm sure there would be plenty of Cubans who would be fine with the US annexing part of their country as well, doesn't justify it at all.

[polly7]

30. Why the fuck would Crimeans be expected to live under the boot

of a brutal-coup 'gov't consisting of fascists and right-wingers whose first order to them was to stop speaking their own language?

Voting for the EU and austerity by Eastern Ukraine and Crimea was in doubt (which is why they couldn't wait for the election), why would or should they want to live their lives under something they didn't want? They didn't see the 'gov't as legitimate, but they did see the brutality and ignorance. They voted to get the fuck out, voluntarily, and by a huge majority. That's called 'democracy'.

[NuclearDem]

34. First of all, not a coup.

Second, the bill removed Russian as an official language, not ban it outright as you're suggesting, and it was vetoed anyway after appropriate outcry and condemnation.

Third, let's take a look at the ballot:

http://m.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26514797

1. Description

×
The ballot paper is in three languages. Russian, Ukranian and Crimean Tatar - the language of the indigenous Tatar community of Crimea. The opening sentences explain that the ballot paper is for use in the referendum on the future of the Crimea set for 16 March.
2. First option

×
Voters are directed to check one of two boxes corresponding to two questions. The first asks: do you support reunifying Crimea with Russia as a subject of the Russian Federation?
3. Second option

×
The second question asked is: Do you support the restoration of the 1992 Crimean constitution and the status of Crimea as a part of Ukraine?
(The wording "restoring the 1992 constitution" does not make it clear whether this refers to the original version of the constitution, declaring Crimea an independent state, or the later amended version, in which Crimea was an autonomous republic within Ukraine).
4. Warning

×
The ballot paper carries a warning in all three languages that choosing both available options makes it invalid.

Notice how there's absolutely no status quo option anywhere on that ballot. The only viable option available was to rejoin Russia, and the Russian occupiers who printed the ballot damn well knew that. Putin knows a thing or two about sham elections.

And since we're on the subject of democracy, that "coup government" has since held elections of their own, and it seems Putin's bullshit with Crimea backfired, since the Ukrainian government is now more pro-Western than ever.

Absolutely none of which matters in the firs place, since Putin had absolutely no justification outside of nationalist irredentism to invade and occupy Crimea in violation of Budapest in a flagrant violation of international law you seem intent on defending (again, because the Russians will be "greeted as liberators&quot

[polly7]

36. Yeah, it was a coup. nt.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

38. ........

[polly7]

39. Oh I know exactly what it means.

But nice pic.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

40. Then define it.

And after defining it, show how the situation last year in Ukraine fits such a definition.

[polly7]

41. You know what you can do with your orders.

And I've answered you on this a half dozen times, so ....... go look it up yourself.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

43. I have looked it up myself.

And the definition I've provided to you clearly does not support the argument that there was a "coup" in Ukraine last year.

But go ahead and deflect.

[polly7]

44. Blah, blah ....... I've gone through this with you so many times it's beyond boring. nt.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

46. You're right.

Your pathological inability to properly use the English language and the commonly accepted definitions of terms is quite boorish.

So, for the record, you won't provide your definition of the word "coup" for me. Got it.

[polly7]

47. LOL. Seriously. nt.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

49. Seriously.

You've proven yourself to have zero credibility by your obstinance.

Funny, because you think you'd like to prove me wrong, but apparently you don't even want to try.

[polly7]

52. Been there, done that ..... now don't be disingenuous.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

53. When have you been there?

And that's not rhetorical.

If you say you've defined the word "coup" for me before, go ahead and show me. Provide me a link.

Or hell, just define it again--if you think you are right, it couldn't hurt your argument, correct?

[Cha]

109. Putin says it was a coup so they are sticking to that story. Putin has quite a few fans in America

including the asshole of the day..



napkinz http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6250427

Rudy Giuliani: Unlike Obama, Putin is “what you call a leader”

http://www.salon.com/2014/03/04/rudy_giuliani_unlike_obama_putin_is_%E2%80%9Cwhat_you_call_a_leader%E2%80%9D/

[Tommy_Carcetti]

113. Well, yeah. nt

[Tommy_Carcetti]

37. Thank you.

Well said.

[Cha]

107. The usual suspects insist it was a "coup"..they've been fed that and they're sticking to their story

[Cha]

108. That's right.. it wasn't a coup. But, since Putin says it was a "coup".. they stick to that story.

Putin truthers..



William

[Albertoo]

55. polly7, you have to be joking

The election in Ukraine was monitored by international NGO's, and declared fair and square.

The sham 'independence votations' in the Ukraine eastern provinces were held at gunpoint.

(not to mention, rigged as the elctions in Russia where Putin stuffs ballot boxes)


Just one question for you, polly7:

why do you side Putin, the ballot-box-stuffer, and the East Ukraine hoodlum 'separatists'?

[polly7]

56. lmfao. Yeah, this has been tried, too ........ about two dozen times.

What a joke.

[Albertoo]

58. YOU are a joke

I asked nicely why you are acting as a Kremlin-bot. You do not care to answer.

And yet there is evidence of fair and square elections in Ukraine.

And ample evidence of fake votations and Russian military intervention in eastern Ukraine.


I was politely asking why you support the eastern separatist thugs against Democracy?

[polly7]

61. A Kremlin-bot now?

Ok, so far ........ a Putin boot-licker, leg-humper and now Kremlin-bot. Who's the joke? I'd say it's the name-calling babies.

Yes, there is evidence of fair and and square elections in - Crimea.

No evidence of Russian military in eastern Ukraine.

Want a cookie? I just made some.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

63. Go ahead and show us the evidence that the Ukrainian presidential and parlimentary elections....

.....weren't determined by independent foreign observers to be free and fair.

[Albertoo]

64. Do you live in some kind of parallel universe?

No evidence of Russian military in eastern Ukraine.

[HERVEPA]

78. How about a cracker, since all you can dio is parrot the Putin line

[polly7]

80. Sure, but are they salted? Really, you're getting sad with the insults. That one is just

too old!

[HERVEPA]

81. As is your constant bullshit and unwillingness to engage in substantive discussions with anyone

Yiu just repeat I've already answered that. So I stand by the acuracy of my post.

[polly7]

82. Your constant bullshit and insults are neverending, why the fuck would I involve myself

with you, period???

[HERVEPA]

84. Add in lack of reading comprehension

I was talking about discussing with anyone, not just me.
And, by the way, salted.

[polly7]

85. Eat your crackers, you might feel better. nt.

[HERVEPA]

90. I assume Vlad would need to pay more to get wittier stooges

Don't try asking for a raise is my suggestion. If he wanted topay more, he could do better.

[polly7]

91. I only wanted to use two words, but thought it best to add an extra few.

Really though, only two were necessary. I don't have a lot of patience. 'Vlad' would love your wit, I'm sure! I know you certainly had me rolling on the floor!

[treestar]

98. you seem to think your bald declarations are enough to support an argument

These snide posts don't do a thing but indicate you are not up for the debate.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

102. DU's Brave Sir Robin, she is. nt

[Tarheel_Dem]

88. You did ask very nicely, but you'll never get an intellectually honest answer, just talking points.

TYT/Buzzfeed: "Russia's Online Troll Army Is Huge, Hilarious & Already Everywhere "

"Moscow is financing legions of pro-Russia Internet commenters. But how much do they matter?"

"Russia's campaign to shape international opinion around its invasion of Ukraine has extended to recruiting and training a new cadre of online trolls that have been deployed to spread the Kremlin's message on the comments section of top American websites.

Oddly enough, the most vociferous Putinists are, in many cases, the most virulent anti westerners, which begs the question...what the hell is "liberal" about them and their support for a land grabbin' billionaire asshole like Putin?

[Tommy_Carcetti]

60. So let me get this straight.

You make wild, seemingly unsubstantiated claims.

Then when someone calls you on those claims and asks you to support those claims with documented facts or evidence, your response is always, "I've already supported my position." Even though there's no evidence that you actually have.

What sort of person isn't eager to document one's position with supporting facts?

[HappyMe]

6. Yeah but Pooty said not his fault...fascist blah blah...

Pooty is the pinnacle of awesome leadership and freedoms!!1

[SidDithers]

8. His bootlickers swoon over his manliness...

and feverishly buy their collectibles.



Sid

[HappyMe]

9. One must support the cause!!1

Glorious, plastic manliness!

[freshwest]

93. Wow, cool stuff! Bet they sell well with this crowd:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024596843

to Napkinz.

[Cha]

110. Ghouliani thinks so..

Rudy Giuliani: Unlike Obama, Putin is “what you call a leader”

http://www.salon.com/2014/03/04/rudy_giuliani_unlike_obama_putin_is_%E2%80%9Cwhat_you_call_a_leader%E2%80%9D/



napkinzhttp://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6250427

[Nye Bevan]

7. This is obviously Obama's fault.

I read it on rt.com.

[William769]

10. Was there any doubt?

Well I mean any doubt from non comrade propagandists.

[Major Nikon]

11. Results...

On Wed Feb 18, 2015, 08:53 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Russia shelling Ukraine across the countries’ shared border, according to forensic analysis
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026242382

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Is the person capable of a coherent argument related to Russia/Ukraine without stooping to the use of "Putin boot-lickers." He does this every single time someone posts an article about Russia/Ukraine that he does not agree with.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Feb 18, 2015, 08:56 AM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Putin sucks and if you believe he doesn't you can piss up a rope.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: This post would be fine without Mr. Dithers' comment at the end. His comment is what caused me to vote to hide. Grow up, Mr. Dithers.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Who else but a Putin boot-licker would be offended by this? Followup question: Why should anyone else care?

[HappyMe]

12. Oh boy!

I don't like this opinion, so I will alert!

[polly7]

14. Did you alert?

I didn't. I love when Sid gets all excited about being able to post his little pictures and call good people 'Putin boot-lickers'. It gives me a chance to talk about Warmonger slipper-suckers (McCain's, specifically ....... I bet they're tasty).

[HappyMe]

15. Why the hell would I alert?

Putin's an asshat.


I guess you have no reason to whine about name calling then.

[polly7]

17. So Putin's an asshat, what does that have to do with

little baby-namecalling of posters here?

I guess whining about 'them' (but nobody's actually brave enough here to name names) before 'they've' even replied on a thread is a reason to whine some more.

[HappyMe]

18. You are calling names also.

I'm not whining about a damn thing. In fact, I usually never participate in any of those RT/Putin threads. Bark up another tree.

[polly7]

19. Me either.

Responding to name-calling is just something I do. I wasn't whining about a damn thing either. Just the facts - what works for one should work for the other.

Ruff, ruff .....

[NCTraveler]

29. Name calling. lol.

polly7

"Your reply is just plain stupid."
"You're obviously the pea that stopped growing at the end of the pod and nobody eats."

This is what you have resorted to while fighting for Putin. Not the people of Russia like you claim. It has become obvious.

[polly7]

31. You left out what I was replying to lol!

Typical. But good work.

And, I've never 'fought for Putin', or even mentioned his name except in reply to the pathetic boot-licking crap. So please don't lie. I fight for human beings who've been put in the middle of this. You really need to stop making shit up.

[NCTraveler]

51. I think you should simply stop calling people juvenile names.

It all starts with a look in the mirror. Don't make requests of others when you can not abide by your own rules. This would be a more peaceful place if you did live by the rules you lecture others on.

Normally one should have more than two extremely brief conversations with someone before using the word "typical." It actually has a meaning. Unless you were simply stereotyping. That wouldn't surprise me either after seeing the level of aggression you bring to the table.

[polly7]

57. I think you should stop doing exactly what you're accusing me of, especially when

you started it all and have in this thread posted complete fucking lies. Kind of low, isn't that?

[Tommy_Carcetti]

68. "You started it all and have in this thread posted complete fucking lies."

[polly7]

70. Hey, rotate that a bit to the right and you've got a little fence!

I like that vintage look. Cool!

[NCTraveler]

73. "You started it."

One of the best of all times. You have some serious aggression.

[polly7]

74. Check out a mirror.

And your posts .........

[Tommy_Carcetti]

71. The definitions of words are meaningless to that poster.

That sadly has been established.

[randome]

13. 'Grow up'? I don't know about Sid but I say, NEVER!

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Aspire to inspire.[/center][/font][hr]

[Major Nikon]

16. Underoos are available in adult sizes

[polly7]

21. LOL. Yep. nt.

[MattSh]

75. Cool

[Octafish]

23. ''The Putin boot-lickers will have an answer for this, surely.'' -- SidDithers of DU

Poppy Bush used fake satellite images to sell his war for Kuwait.

So there's that.

[randome]

25. So once burned, always burned? You'll never trust a satellite picture again?

How sad.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"The whole world is a circus if you know how to look at it."
Tony Randall, 7 Faces of Dr. Lao (1964)[/center][/font][hr]

[Octafish]

32. You're sad?

Tell me about it.

Wars without end for profits without cease.

Now that's sad.

[FBaggins]

35. So you can't tell the difference between Bush and Obama eh?

Then why are you here on DU?

Bush used satellite photos that had to be interpreted (and thus could be lied about). A column of tanks rollin across the border and then later taking part in an offensive... or artillery fire that clearly crosses that same border... leave no such room.

It cannot be denied that the administration has enough intelligence to tell whether or not Russia is directly involved in the conflict... and they clearly claim that it is.

Either Putin is lying to us or Obama is. There is no third option.

Choose.

[Octafish]

45. That is a good question.

How do you tell the difference between Bush and Obama?

One's a Republican.

[FBaggins]

50. A good question which you're dodging

Do you or do you not believe that President Obama is lying about Russian involvement?

[Octafish]

54. FBaggins, who made you DU prosecutor?

If you don't like my answer, tough shit.

[FBaggins]

59. Sorry... you can't hide

The truth here is clear enough. No prosecutor is needed.

[Octafish]

62. Hide from you? LOL. Here's what a real expert thinks.

Is This Barack Obama's 2nd Term? Is it Bill Clinton's 3rd? Or Is It Ronald Reagan's 9th?

They say that elections do matter, and that there are real differences between Republican and Democratic presidents. But backing up the view to 30 years, that difference looks a lot more like continuity, both at home and in America's global empire.

By Bruce A. Dixon
Black Agenda Report managing editor

The answer is yes to all three. Ronald Reagan hasn't darkened the White House door in decades. But his policy objectives have been what every president, Democrat and Republican have pursued relentlessly ever since. Barack Obama is only the latest and most successful of Reagan's disciples.

SNIP...

In Barack Obama's case all he had to say was that he wasn't necessarily against wars, just against what he called “stupid wars.” Corporate media and “liberal” shills morphed that lone statement into a false narrative that Barack Obama opposed the war in Iraq, making him an instantly viable presidential candidate at a time when the American people overwhelmingly opposed that war. Once in office, Barack Obama strove mightily to abrogate the Status of Forces Agreement with Iraq which would have allowed US forces to remain there indefinitely. But when the Iraqi puppet government, faced with a near revolt on the part of what remained of Iraqi civil society, dared not do his bidding, insisting that uniformed US troops (but not the American and multinational mercenaries we pay to remain there) stick to the withdrawal timetable agreed upon under Bush, liberal shills and corporate media hailed the withdrawal from Iraq as Obama's “victory.”

Barack Obama doubled down on the invasion and occupation of large areas of Afghanistan, and increased the size of the army and marines, which in fact he pledged to do during his presidential campaign. Presidential candidate Obama promised to end secret imprisonment and torture. The best one can say about President Obama on this score is that he seems to prefer murderous and indiscriminate drone attacks, in many cases, over the Bush policy of international kidnapping secret imprisonment and torture. The Obama administration's reliance on drones combined with US penetration of the African continent, means that a Democratic, ostensibly “antiwar” president has been able to openly deploy US troops to every part of that continent in support of its drive to control the oil, water, and other resources there.

The objectives President Obama's Africa policies fulfill today were put down on paper by the Bush administration, pursued by Bill Clinton before that, and still earlier pursued by Ronald Reagan, when it funded murderous contra armies of UNITA in Angola and RENAMO in Mozambque. It was UNITA and RENAMO's campaigns, assisted by the apartheid regimes of Israel and South Africa that pioneered the genocidal use of child soldiers. Today, cruise missile liberals hail the Obama administration's use of pit bull puppet regimes like Uganda, Burundi and Rwanda, all of which shot their way into power with child soldiers, to invade Somalia and Congo, sometimes ostensibly to go after other bad actors on the grounds that they are using child soldiers.

CONTINUED...

http://www.blackagendareport.com/content/barack-obamas-2nd-term-it-bill-clintons-3rd-or-it-ronald-reagans-9th

[FBaggins]

69. Bruce A. Dixon is a "real expert" now?

I guess that says it all.

Why try to hide from the reality that you think that Obama is lying us into a war and no different from Bush... and then prove that it's true by calling this guy an expert (who has been saying that very thing for years now)?

[zappaman]

72. I have to side with Octafish of DU because

He is "afraid of no man"!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4337158

[MattSh]

76. You want an answer?

The USA started it, Russia and Putin joined later.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

77. "The USA started it"

And what is "it"?

[FBaggins]

86. Oh... that's simple enough.

All you really have to do is watch the latest RT spin and suddenly it's part of their repretoir.

In this case, no doubt, it's the sudden revelation that the whole conflict stems back to a lie the U.S. told to Russia after the fall of the Berlin Wall.

Ignoring decades (centuries even) of history prior to that point.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

89. Sadly, that's pretty much the long and the short of the rhetoric going on. nt

[SidDithers]

42. something something something BFEE something something...nt

Sid

[Octafish]

48. Are you going to volunteer to join the PNAC fight for the Ukraine?

I'm sure you'd distinguish yourself.

"Trolling is a art." -- SidDithers to zappaman

[treestar]

99. Which has nothing to do with the topic of this thread eom

[Octafish]

104. Yes it does.

And if more people understood why, the people who continue to lie America into war would be in prison.

[treestar]

105. It is a totally different occurrence.

You're talking about something from the past.

You'd be awful to be married to, lol. You'd be bringing up the spouse's past mistakes to justify anything else you do.

[Octafish]

106. You and Cass Sunstein may want to forgive Bushes lying America into war. Not me.

Government Nanny Censoring "Conspiracy Theories" Is Also Responsible for Letting Bush Era Torture and Spying Conspiracies Go Unpunished

Washingtons Blog, Oct. 7, 2010

EXCERPT...

[font color="red"]Prosecuting government officials risks a “cycle” of criminalizing public service, (Sunstein) argued, and Democrats should avoid replicating retributive efforts like the impeachment of President Clinton — or even the “slight appearance” of it. [/font color]

SOURCE w links n details: http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2010/10/main-obama-adviser-blocking-prosecution.html?m=1

[Jesus Malverde]

24. .

Jesus

[Karmadillo]

33. Bellingcat. LOL

[geek tragedy]

100. LOL Putin supporters nt

[Cha]

111. Including this Asshole of the day..

Rudy Giuliani: Unlike Obama, Putin is “what you call a leader”

http://www.salon.com/2014/03/04/rudy_giuliani_unlike_obama_putin_is_%E2%80%9Cwhat_you_call_a_leader%E2%80%9D/



napkinzhttp://www.democraticunderground.com/10026250427

[treestar]

101. It says it is crowd sources

So isn't that the People, rather than the Corporatists?

[elias49]

65. Hahaha! The Sydney Morning Herald!

How long did it take to find THAT piece Syd? Good work!?

[m-lekktor]

83. and it's "conservative" according to it's wiki page.

though it did endorse " australian labor party" for a few elections.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sydney_Morning_Herald

[pampango]

66. Russian Military Units Linked to Ukraine Hide Casualty Data

More than a dozen Russian military units linked by media reports to the fighting in eastern Ukraine have refused to disclose their casualty figures for 2013-14, while one that provided the data showed a rise in soldier deaths from zero to six, a news report said Thursday.

The St. Petersburg branch of the Soldiers' Mothers Committee — an organization that defends conscripts' rights — sent requests to military units that soldiers' families and media reports had identified as suffering losses last year, including in eastern Ukraine, the Vedomosti business daily reported Thursday, citing the group's spokesman Alexander Peredruk.

A total of 17 units have responded so far — with all but one with refusing to disclose their casualty data, the report said. The one unit that provided information said it had lost six soldiers since July 2014 compared to no casualties a year earlier, according to Vedomosti. The report did not identify the unit nor specify how many soldiers it comprised.

The military units cited various reasons for their refusal to provide casualty data to the Soldiers' Mothers Committee, from saying the information constituted a state secret, to directing inquiries to higher military command, Vedomosti reported.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russian-military-units-linked-to-ukraine-hide-casualty-figures-report-says/515802.html

[Man from Pickens]

67. Please stop recycling war propaganda

If you took just a few minutes to look at the source of these claims, you'd realize it was a yet another pack of lies from the war propaganda industry. Same folks who brought you the false claims of a Syrian government chemical attack a year and a half ago.

[MattSh]

79. So we're supposed to believe...

that this Bellingcat group proved something that the NSA, the CIA, and the DoD were either unwilling or unable to prove?

Seriously?

[FBaggins]

87. Nope.

The CIA and DoD have been perfectly willing to prove it... to the administration ("able" doesnt enter into it since it's incredibly easy for them to do so). The administration has been willing to release only unclassified images (which have been more than enough if you don't start out with a pro-russian point of view to begin with).


In fact, the State Department released a very similar analysis to this one not too long ago.

[freshwest]

92. Oh, now you did it Sid!

[BainsBane]

94. I told a Russian colleague of mine about the Putin

"boot lickers," as you call them. I told her they purport to be on the left. She couldn't believe it. "On the left?" she said. "That makes no sense."

[polly7]

95. What a coincidence!

I'm going to ask my Ukrainian uncle about the warmonger "slipper suckers" and how they purport to be on the left and see if he can explain to me the reasoning some here in the west are wishing austerity and ownership on them so badly. He'll believe it, we talk about this a lot and he tells me how people of Ukraine have basically been pawns for so many for so long. I believe the people pushing for it so hard in places all over the world benefit somehow personally from it themselves, how best to explain the absolute knowledge that an already suffering people will have escalated rates of suicides, infant mortality, abject poverty as in Greece and Spain? It's like every 'war' before it - the rich get richer and those who can least afford it (usually the children and women) suffer the most. That some 'on the left' are so happy to see it go on and on, is telling - the threads yesterday hoping for peace sunk like a stone while the "Putin-lickers!!!!!" threads are extremely popular. lmfao.

[SidDithers]

96. Yup. Putin boot lickers abound...

It's sad to see some on the left defending an actual warmongering, homophobic fascist. Thankfully, it's only the far left fringe that's supporting him.

Sid

[polly7]

97. Haven't seen any Pootie boot-lickers, but there sure are a lot of McCain slipper-suckers defending

his warmongering positions.

Cookie?

polly

[BainsBane]

103. The far right as well

According to the Economist, is is supported by far right parties in Europe, like Le Pen and other National Front parties. He seems to appeal to those that want an alternative to the EU and US.

[Cha]

112. It does make no sense.. Putin is a rw homophobic ******* supported by the US teabaggers inc

napkinz http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026250427