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KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 03:40 PM Mar 2015

Alarm Bells Toll For Human Civilization As World's 12th Largest Mega-City To Run Out Of Water

http://upriser.com/posts/alarm-bells-toll-for-human-civilization-as-world-s-12th-largest-mega-city-to-run-out-of-water-in-just-60-days

The city of Sao Paulo is home to 20 million Brazilians, making it the 12th largest mega-city on a planet dominated by shortsighted humans. Shockingly, it has only 60 days of water supply remaining. The city "has about two months of guaranteed water supply remaining as it taps into the second of three emergency reserves," reports Reuters.

Technical reserves have already been released, and as the city enters the heavy water use holiday season, its 20 million residents are riding on a fast-track collision course with severe water rationing and devastating disruptions....

Consider Las Vegas while you ponder all this: Here's a city with no water future whatsoever, continuing to build new casinos and grow its population even as the water level of Lake Mead has already dropped to emergency levels (and continues to plummet). What do the people of Las Vegas imagine they will drink when all the cheap, easy water is gone? Will they swallow dust and pretend it's water?

The sobering truth is that nearly everyone who lives in Las Vegas doesn't think about this. By definition, anyone who realized the truth about the disappearing water throughout Nevada, Arizona and California would have already sold their property and moved away. Those who still inhabit regions with unsustainable water supplies -- such as Sao Paulo -- are choosing to make believe the problem doesn't exist.


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Alarm Bells Toll For Human Civilization As World's 12th Largest Mega-City To Run Out Of Water (Original Post) KamaAina Mar 2015 OP
I bet this is making the capitalist's mouths water. Pun not intended. nm rhett o rick Mar 2015 #1
You'll never guess who used to buy up water supplies mainly in developing countries KamaAina Mar 2015 #5
I think Nestles, PepsiCo, and CocaCola are doing that now. nm rhett o rick Mar 2015 #8
Bush Criminals also. Bought a S American aquifer misterhighwasted Mar 2015 #11
Paraguay central scrutinizer Mar 2015 #15
Thanks..yes Paraguay. misterhighwasted Mar 2015 #17
I think his property abuts property owned by the Moonies. alfredo Mar 2015 #37
About the size of Connecticut. Octafish Mar 2015 #49
That sucks. I fear for our future. Our greed has overridden our survival instinct. alfredo Mar 2015 #53
A fortunate few may survive what they have in store for humanity. Octafish Mar 2015 #63
If our species survives, will it spawn another round of alfredo Mar 2015 #67
Stanislaw Lem thought humanity was just the beginning... Octafish Mar 2015 #71
On a large scale climate change IMO well might not be reversible, and sadly many humans, RKP5637 Mar 2015 #84
We are the last of the Homo lineage. alfredo Mar 2015 #93
+1 C Moon Mar 2015 #121
I propose an infestation of rats, scabies, and bedbugs in these "utopias." There's gotta be a way. NBachers Mar 2015 #78
Aw come on Octa! You know you are just supposed to tee hee about the BFEE and PNAC. Rex Mar 2015 #98
There's always an iceberg sulphurdunn Mar 2015 #108
They need to understand that the armed guards they employ are from alfredo Mar 2015 #127
Yes, and sulphurdunn Mar 2015 #132
You know the thought has passed through the minds of the rich, and maybe alfredo Mar 2015 #133
Hello! relayerbob Mar 2015 #124
I've been reading "Babbitt" by Sinclair Lewis, and I see that the capitalist has not alfredo Mar 2015 #126
All for their fricking fracking erronis Mar 2015 #30
when l.v. drinks up all their water they will come after yours Romeo.lima333 Mar 2015 #2
Water is the reason I believe the Koch bros. focused on the bordering states. rufus dog Mar 2015 #12
Do you know if they (the Kochs) also focused on Canadian provinces? HereSince1628 Mar 2015 #27
Drink Canada dry. alfredo Mar 2015 #38
Well played. Cooley Hurd Mar 2015 #52
Yeah, but we'd piss it all away. alfredo Mar 2015 #54
oh you! AngryAmish Mar 2015 #58
I did not know that rufus dog Mar 2015 #90
Not New York! RoccoR5955 Mar 2015 #42
Where does NY get its energy supply? former9thward Mar 2015 #134
Here are a couple of fun facts about New York's energy supply Art_from_Ark Mar 2015 #135
Fine, good luck with surviving on 30%. former9thward Mar 2015 #136
So how many other states even come close to 30% renewables? Art_from_Ark Mar 2015 #137
The poster I was replying to is saying they former9thward Mar 2015 #138
Come try to take our water.... N_E_1 for Tennis Mar 2015 #24
been seeing that coming for years and years. why do you think that navarth Mar 2015 #32
It will be more than pitchfork and shovels in many places. amandabeech Mar 2015 #44
They will answer with machine guns, armored vehicles, and gunships TheKentuckian Mar 2015 #59
It wont happen Travis_0004 Mar 2015 #89
that's good to hear thanks Romeo.lima333 Mar 2015 #109
Hope that's right, but... freebrew Mar 2015 #117
Important to us all. K&R. nt Mnemosyne Mar 2015 #3
And the Oil Barons want to risk tainting the water supply in the midwest misterhighwasted Mar 2015 #4
Maybe that's their long term plan for when oil is obsolete? Matariki Mar 2015 #6
Not a doubt in my mind as to you statement. The Bush Crime Family.. misterhighwasted Mar 2015 #10
The Guardian article I linked to is about that purchase Matariki Mar 2015 #13
Thanks That's it. Paraguay not Peru as I previously stated. misterhighwasted Mar 2015 #14
Meh.....This is bullshit. You wanna know how I know it's bullshit? Cali_Democrat Mar 2015 #7
In the middle of the winter in D.C. Absolute genius, justhanginon Mar 2015 #51
lol Liberal_in_LA Mar 2015 #73
Water refugees bikebloke Mar 2015 #9
And a lot of them will come from the SW - land of guns and stupids erronis Mar 2015 #31
this was a prime reason I chose upstate SC Man from Pickens Mar 2015 #16
Plus, you're near Lindsey Graham! KamaAina Mar 2015 #18
you have to look on the bright side Man from Pickens Mar 2015 #20
That must be a fairly easy vote.... daleanime Mar 2015 #26
What about NC's coal ash and soon-to-be fracking waste? SMC22307 Mar 2015 #21
I don't believe so Man from Pickens Mar 2015 #56
same reason I moved to Maine magical thyme Mar 2015 #45
Moved away? Trillo Mar 2015 #19
When you have no water your mortgage won't be worth squat. What ins co will cover a place jtuck004 Mar 2015 #29
jtuck, you hit that one dead on onethatcares Mar 2015 #33
ridiculous. Trillo Mar 2015 #34
How fucked up a system that was. They labor, and you have to feed and clothe them. jtuck004 Mar 2015 #60
Welcome to my ignore list. Trillo Mar 2015 #70
Wow dreamnightwind Mar 2015 #97
economic collapse is different from zero water Trillo Mar 2015 #100
No, it's not dreamnightwind Mar 2015 #101
You missed my point regarding the mortgages... Trillo Mar 2015 #103
OK dreamnightwind Mar 2015 #104
I think a lot of people miss what happens when there isn't any water. People leave. LiberalArkie Mar 2015 #131
Sorry to hear that, but STILL underwater value-wise? vkkv Mar 2015 #119
Yes, there is still a backlog of bank-owned houses that have to sell dreamnightwind Mar 2015 #120
so sorry dreamnightwind Skittles Mar 2015 #130
End of human civilization? Alarm bells toll? Android3.14 Mar 2015 #22
Yep, too true. Too True. AverageJoe90 Mar 2015 #23
Can you point out... Oilwellian Mar 2015 #25
Oh, I dunno, maybe in the title Android3.14 Mar 2015 #35
"alarm bells toll" != "end" KamaAina Mar 2015 #47
Weird...I don't see the word "end" anywhere in your sentence Oilwellian Mar 2015 #61
C R U Z alfredo Mar 2015 #68
A city of millions is running out of water due to climate change NickB79 Mar 2015 #82
Cities have run out of water in the past Android3.14 Mar 2015 #105
Wars for water are just around the corner. EEO Mar 2015 #28
pretty scary. nt navarth Mar 2015 #40
Treated Waste/Sewer Water dem in texas Mar 2015 #36
Aauggh! Don't tell me that! KamaAina Mar 2015 #41
Where is Inhofe turbinetree Mar 2015 #39
Hey, sea levels are rising. So there's no water shortage! riqster Mar 2015 #50
Update needed on the article cited h2ebits Mar 2015 #43
In defense of Las Vegas Nevernose Mar 2015 #46
Riverside is a great example Adsos Letter Mar 2015 #62
You seem to have forgotten one big problem... americannightmare Mar 2015 #74
Climate change will not be uniform Kaleva Mar 2015 #142
Ugh gcomeau Mar 2015 #48
Maybe someone in Australia, Israel or Saud Arabia could place a call to the "leaders" in Brazil nationalize the fed Mar 2015 #55
PNW here we come! shanti Mar 2015 #57
I live in one of the few water sustainable cities in the southwest--if we're careful Warpy Mar 2015 #64
Albuquerque? KamaAina Mar 2015 #65
No, which is why the lawns all dried up and blew away Warpy Mar 2015 #66
I like pictures nikto Mar 2015 #69
Why can't they drill deeper like every other city throughout the World is doing? ffr Mar 2015 #72
Are you sure that the rock strata beneath Sao Paulo contains another aquifer deeper down? Maedhros Mar 2015 #80
I don't live there and I'm not a geologist, but ffr Mar 2015 #83
Dams and aquaducts are the traditional solutions. Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2015 #129
Pray harder. blkmusclmachine Mar 2015 #75
Las Vegas eventually finds a new equilibrium Babel_17 Mar 2015 #76
Cilmate change effects the entire planet workinclasszero Mar 2015 #77
Get Used To This - Closer To Home colsohlibgal Mar 2015 #79
remember what happened to mono lake? niyad Mar 2015 #88
Mono Lake supporter here catchnrelease Mar 2015 #96
it is a frightening scenario. niyad Mar 2015 #115
In my crazy head I always believed water is more precious than oil. joanbarnes Mar 2015 #81
Yep, exactly! n/t RKP5637 Mar 2015 #86
According to a song, there is water at the bottom of the ocean. tclambert Mar 2015 #85
I think you might be on to something cemaphonic Mar 2015 #140
google "coming water wars". so much of what I have read over the last few years shows that niyad Mar 2015 #87
Massive drought in Syria resulted in crop failures truebluegreen Mar 2015 #111
thank you for pointing out both the syrian situation--and the pentagon report. we remember, but niyad Mar 2015 #116
Hoarding water, plans to suggest people abandon the city... jtuck004 Mar 2015 #91
Where would they go?! KamaAina Mar 2015 #92
Is 20 million Brazillians the same as 20 Trazillions? n/t eggplant Mar 2015 #94
Their leadership is the problem Aerows Mar 2015 #95
. Rex Mar 2015 #99
Cities come and go. Albertoo Mar 2015 #102
Don't live in a desert and expect an abundance of water. Enthusiast Mar 2015 #106
They just need a couple hundred of these Kalidurga Mar 2015 #107
Meanwhile..... Lean Mar 2015 #110
No problem. Helen Borg Mar 2015 #112
hell heaven05 Mar 2015 #113
It means that avoidance & adaptation are the priorities Beach Rat Mar 2015 #114
In wealthier nations like the U.S., we'll never actually run out of water. Xithras Mar 2015 #118
The last part of the article is unfair. lark Mar 2015 #122
"What do the people of Las Vegas imagine they will drink....?" Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2015 #123
Doesn't that require water? d_legendary1 Mar 2015 #125
Yeah, from Milwaukee. Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2015 #128
If only there were something we could do, almost immediately flvegan Mar 2015 #139
I doubt that much of Sao Paulo's municipal water supply is used to raise livestock KamaAina Mar 2015 #141
 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
5. You'll never guess who used to buy up water supplies mainly in developing countries
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 03:53 PM
Mar 2015


although, at one point, they owned a small supplier on O'ahu!

misterhighwasted

(9,148 posts)
11. Bush Criminals also. Bought a S American aquifer
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 04:07 PM
Mar 2015

Can'link from my phone..google has it.
Think it may be in Peru..maybe

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
49. About the size of Connecticut.
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 06:27 PM
Mar 2015

They managed to dump the first democratically elected president in decades from when this was posted in '08:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3183814

The water's still safe for his successors, the Moonies and Bushies.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
63. A fortunate few may survive what they have in store for humanity.
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 07:51 PM
Mar 2015

They are planning for that eventuality, anyway:



The Really Creepy People Behind the Libertarian-Inspired Billionaire Sea Castles

The stinking rich are planning billion-dollar luxury liners that keep the land-based Americans they've plundered at a safe distance.

AlterNet / By Mark Ames
June 1, 2010

What happens when Americans plunder America and leave it broken, destitute and seething mad? Where do these fabulously wealthy Americans go with their loot, if America isn't a safe, secure, or even desirable place to spend their riches? What if they lose faith in their gated communities, because those plush gated communities are surrounded by millions of pissed-off Americans stripped of their entitlements, and who now want in?

The first such floating castle has been christened the " Utopia"--the South Korean firm Samsung has been contracted to build the $1.1 billion ship, due to be launched in 2013. Already orders are coming in to buy one of the Utopia's 200 or so mansions for sale- -which range in price from about $4 million for the smallest condos to over $26 million for 6,600 square-foot "estates." The largest mansion is a whopping 40,000 square feet, and sells for $160 million.

SNIP...

Both Thiel and Milton Friedman's grandson see democracy as the enemy--last year, Thiel wrote "I no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible" at about the same time that Milton Friedman's grandson proclaimed, "Democracy is not the answer." Both published their anti-democracy proclamations in the same billionaire-Koch-family-funded outlet, Cato Unbound, one of the oldest billionaire-fed libertarian welfare dispensaries. Friedman's answer for Thiel's democracy problem is to build offshore libertarian pod-fortresses where the libertarian way rules. It's probably better for everyone if Milton Friedman's grandson and Peter Thiel leave us forever for their libertarian ocean lair--Thiel believes that America went down the tubes ever since it gave women the right to vote, and he was outed as the sponsor of accused felon James O'Keefe's smear videos that brought ACORN to ruin.

SNIP...

While neither Bush nor the Bin Ladens are principals in the Frontier Group, its founding director, Frank Carlucci, is a name they know well, and you should too. Carlucci ran the Carlyle Group as its chairman from 1989 through 2005, right around the time that the wars started going undeniably bad, and floating castles started to look like a viable plan. But Carlucci's past is much weirder and scarier than most of us care to know: whether it's his strangely timed appearances in some of the ugliest assassinations and coups in modern history, or serving as Carter's number two man in the CIA, and Ronald Reagan's Secretary of Defense, if Frank Carlucci (nicknamed "Creepy Carlucci" and "Spooky Frank&quot is the founding director of a firm that's building floating castles, it's a bad sign for those of us left behind.

I'll get into Carlucci's partners in the Frontier Group in a moment, but first, let's reacquaint ourselves with Frank Carlucci. From an early age, Carlucci learned the importance of getting to know the right people in the right places. He studied at Princeton in the mid-1950s, where as luck should have it, Carlucci roomed with Donald Rumsfeld. Both Carlucci and Rumsfeld shared a passion for Greco-Roman wrestling at Princeton, and both went on to serve in the Navy after Princeton. Their paths would split and merge several times over the next few decades, even as they remained close personal friends throughout their lives. In the late 1950s, Carlucci briefly served as an executive at a lingerie manufacturer, Jantzen (the Victoria's Secret of its day), but quickly left to join the State Department.

CONTINUED...

http://www.alternet.org/story/147058/the_really_creepy_people_behind_the_libertarian-inspired_billionaire_sea_castles
"The heart grows stronger by facing the evils of the world." -- Ludwig van Beethoven



The Carlyle Group/former Secretary of Defense/Big Guy in the MIC Frank Carlucci got his start in Congo, helping Allen Dulles with the Lumumba account back in 1960.

alfredo

(60,065 posts)
67. If our species survives, will it spawn another round of
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 08:08 PM
Mar 2015

Human evolution? Climate change drove us out of Africa, forcing us to adapt to new environments.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
71. Stanislaw Lem thought humanity was just the beginning...
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 09:10 PM
Mar 2015

...of evolution for cybernetic organisms. One day AI robots will look back and say, "Uck! I can't believe we're descended from people."

Perhaps an AI subculture would also have evolved that deemed such thought blasphemy and conduct its own version of Scopes Hominid Trials.

http://english.lem.pl/works/novels/the-cyberiad

RKP5637

(67,032 posts)
84. On a large scale climate change IMO well might not be reversible, and sadly many humans,
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 10:18 PM
Mar 2015

at least those with the power and money, are too short sighted and greedy. Many of them only care about themselves and their cronies. They will look for how to survive after much of civilization dies off, but I doubt they will be successful. As it goes, nothing lasts forever. We are one very tiny speck of life in a vast universe and there aren't any likely coming to save us. Perhaps the first explorers to Mars will survive, somehow, and earth will be just a burned out planet that could have been great.

Short of that, it's unthinkable how much human endeavor goes into methodologies to kill each other off. Is that F'ed up or what.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
98. Aw come on Octa! You know you are just supposed to tee hee about the BFEE and PNAC.
Thu Mar 5, 2015, 03:12 AM
Mar 2015

As they buy up water and whatever else they can hawk back to people in need.

Tee hee...giggles...and people take these "DUers" seriously. Tee hee Iraqi war. Tee hee 9/11.



 

sulphurdunn

(6,891 posts)
132. Yes, and
Thu Mar 5, 2015, 04:25 PM
Mar 2015

it wouldn't be long before the employees with the guns realized they didn't really need their employers for anything but cheap labor.

alfredo

(60,065 posts)
133. You know the thought has passed through the minds of the rich, and maybe
Thu Mar 5, 2015, 07:17 PM
Mar 2015

kept them awake from time to time.

relayerbob

(6,510 posts)
124. Hello!
Thu Mar 5, 2015, 02:35 PM
Mar 2015

The 1% don't give a crap about us. That's 70 million people who will only need enough slaves to run their automated factories to keep them rich in food and tech. The rest of us are just boat-anchors / vermin to them. We all die off and they have their utopia. So they hope.

alfredo

(60,065 posts)
126. I've been reading "Babbitt" by Sinclair Lewis, and I see that the capitalist has not
Thu Mar 5, 2015, 02:45 PM
Mar 2015

evolved one bit. They are still arrogant assholes.

erronis

(14,955 posts)
30. All for their fricking fracking
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 05:36 PM
Mar 2015

And, of course to make mega-bucks off the hording - just like the banks are doing with metals.

 

Romeo.lima333

(1,127 posts)
2. when l.v. drinks up all their water they will come after yours
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 03:50 PM
Mar 2015

or more likely congress will pass a law forcing the great lakes states to give up their water

 

rufus dog

(8,419 posts)
12. Water is the reason I believe the Koch bros. focused on the bordering states.
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 04:11 PM
Mar 2015

Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio all Koch suckers governors.

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
27. Do you know if they (the Kochs) also focused on Canadian provinces?
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 05:32 PM
Mar 2015

Because Great Lakes water IS NOT controlled only by the US or the states that border the great lakes.

It is controlled by a consortium of states and provinces.


As Waukesha WI found out, water CANNOT be drawn out of the natural watershed (which doesn't reach the ~12 miles west of LAke Michigan) so that Waukesha can cheaply dilute radioactive drinking water to a safe radioactive level without approval of CANADIANS.




 

RoccoR5955

(12,471 posts)
42. Not New York!
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 06:09 PM
Mar 2015

They will have to convince an awful lot of us, after we won the battle against fracking here in NY.
NY has some of the toughest environmentalists, and environmental groups that I know of. I also believe that it was the birthplace of the environmental movement in the US.
Let those bastards TRY to steal our water! They'll be sleepin' with the fishes, as my friend Nunzio might have once said!

former9thward

(31,805 posts)
134. Where does NY get its energy supply?
Thu Mar 5, 2015, 07:28 PM
Mar 2015

Oh, that's right, from the other states. Maybe those states should cut off energy supplies to NY. Have fun with your water then....

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
135. Here are a couple of fun facts about New York's energy supply
Thu Mar 5, 2015, 07:41 PM
Mar 2015

The 2,353-megawatt Robert Moses Niagara hydroelectric power plant is the fourth largest hydroelectric power plant in the United States and, in 2013, New York produced more hydroelectric power than any other state east of the Rocky Mountains.

New York's Renewable Portfolio Standard requires that 30% of electricity come from renewable energy resources by 2015; in 2013, 23% of the state's electricity generation came from renewable energy resources.

http://www.eia.gov/state/?sid=NY

former9thward

(31,805 posts)
136. Fine, good luck with surviving on 30%.
Thu Mar 5, 2015, 08:50 PM
Mar 2015

And of course you may not know NY heating oil has nothing to do with hydroelectric power. Also all the gas that powers the millions of cars and other transportation has nothing to do with hydroelectric power. Have fun with that water ...

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
137. So how many other states even come close to 30% renewables?
Thu Mar 5, 2015, 08:57 PM
Mar 2015

At least New York is trying to do something environmentally sound to meet a significant part of its energy needs.

former9thward

(31,805 posts)
138. The poster I was replying to is saying they
Fri Mar 6, 2015, 01:07 AM
Mar 2015

will kill anyone who wants any NY water. Turn about is fair play....

navarth

(5,927 posts)
32. been seeing that coming for years and years. why do you think that
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 05:39 PM
Mar 2015

...the powers that be are investing so heavily in formerly-unpopular Detroit? I notice it.

 

amandabeech

(9,893 posts)
44. It will be more than pitchfork and shovels in many places.
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 06:11 PM
Mar 2015

I grew up near Lake Michigan, and my family still lives there. I plan to retire there, and I will do all I can to make sure that there is plenty of water in Lake Michigan.

TheKentuckian

(24,949 posts)
59. They will answer with machine guns, armored vehicles, and gunships
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 07:18 PM
Mar 2015

Probably better range than a shovel is really required, still are bringing a knife to a gun fight but that beats the shit out of a slide rule.

 

Travis_0004

(5,417 posts)
89. It wont happen
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 11:49 PM
Mar 2015

Treaties between the US and canada dont allow water to leave the great lakes Basin without both countries approving. Plus its just not possible to pump that mich water that far of a distance.

freebrew

(1,917 posts)
117. Hope that's right, but...
Thu Mar 5, 2015, 12:36 PM
Mar 2015

after seeing the damage done to the Aral Sea in just a matter of decades, I wonder.

misterhighwasted

(9,148 posts)
4. And the Oil Barons want to risk tainting the water supply in the midwest
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 03:51 PM
Mar 2015

KXL- votes in the Senate failed to override Obama's veto today.
By only 4 votes however.

It came THAT close to possible future demise of our Midwest aquifer.
No foresight for human survival but plenty of it for TransCanada & those who support their toxic billion$$$ agenda in our Congress & Senate.

Its sick.

misterhighwasted

(9,148 posts)
10. Not a doubt in my mind as to you statement. The Bush Crime Family..
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 04:04 PM
Mar 2015

..always a step ahead where profit on commodities goes, years ago, purchased land in South America with rights to the immense aquifer below the surface.
Ya know, perhaps knowing the damage oil drilling & mining does to the natural water supplies.

Always looking out for their next billion dollar meal.
"Bush Criminal Enterprise bottled water for sale". Wait for it..its coming. Big bucks for the Bush's.

Maybe some can link it back here. I cant link from my phone.
Thanks

misterhighwasted

(9,148 posts)
14. Thanks That's it. Paraguay not Peru as I previously stated.
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 04:21 PM
Mar 2015

They bought an aquifer because they know what water will be worth when their oil commodity taints water supplies wherever their cronies drill.

Profiteering on commodities.

 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
7. Meh.....This is bullshit. You wanna know how I know it's bullshit?
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 03:58 PM
Mar 2015

Because a Republican Senator from Oklahoma hurled a snowball on the Senate floor.

justhanginon

(3,287 posts)
51. In the middle of the winter in D.C. Absolute genius,
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 06:37 PM
Mar 2015

I know it certainly convinced me. He must have the i.q. of a head of cauliflower and entrusted to help run our country. Frightening!

bikebloke

(5,260 posts)
9. Water refugees
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 03:59 PM
Mar 2015

When the water runs out, will we have a new type of migrants - water refugees? Then ghost cities.

erronis

(14,955 posts)
31. And a lot of them will come from the SW - land of guns and stupids
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 05:39 PM
Mar 2015

I can't wait to see caravans of well-tanned folks from Phoenix showing up in the US NorthEast.

 

Man from Pickens

(1,713 posts)
16. this was a prime reason I chose upstate SC
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 04:24 PM
Mar 2015

Some of the best water resources in the continental US right here, clean and abundant, and with no large populations already dependent on them.

 

Man from Pickens

(1,713 posts)
56. I don't believe so
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 06:45 PM
Mar 2015

Everything "upstream" both water and weather wise here leads directly into the mountains and one of the largest continuous protected areas this side of the Mississippi. A check of potential fracking sites in NC shows them all too far north and east to have an impact on upstate SC. Basically everything that would dump on us is blocked by the Smoky Mountains and the big national forest protected areas.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
45. same reason I moved to Maine
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 06:12 PM
Mar 2015

I meditated on it and "knew" there would be water. I didn't know about the aquifer it sits on. Nor did I realize how much increased precip we'd be looking at.

As an added plus, the caravans of southwesterns will freeze their buns off if they set foot outside up here. 24 below, not including wind chill, should cool their jets more than a little

Trillo

(9,154 posts)
19. Moved away?
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 04:42 PM
Mar 2015

No, I don't think so. There's this thing called a 30-year mortgage. Once you've signed the documents, you agree to pay and keep paying. Yes, you can sell, but given the problems with violent police and many other unknowns, such as unfamiliar local or State laws, its often safer to live with the dangers you know, then to move to a place where you don't understand the dangers. (sometimes even moving to a nearby place with new neighbors can be a problem)

I actually rec'd this, but I'm removing my rec, as this was a major logic flaw the author made.

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
29. When you have no water your mortgage won't be worth squat. What ins co will cover a place
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 05:34 PM
Mar 2015

which has no water to prevent fire? Between drinking and filling the fire hydrant, which do you think will win?

There will be tens of millions of people trying to migrate with no money within a few years, gonna get interesting. And we deserve every thing that is going to happen, since we could have stopped it and didn't. It will coincide with the disappearance of more jobs, the graying of the population, and some serious structural problems with this facade we are blithely calling an economy right now. And if one makes it too expensive, they might make it unsafe to go buy it at any price.

You are correct, there are always new dangers in leaving comfort, the same argument used by plantation owners the world over, an argument which benefits almost entirely the plantation owner.

But that's why we have the labels "winners" and "losers". Or maybe alive and dead will be more appropriate.


onethatcares

(16,133 posts)
33. jtuck, you hit that one dead on
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 05:49 PM
Mar 2015

with the collapse of the retirement system and the fact that many are and have been using credit to stay alive, once the lifeline is cut, they will move south where the jobs really aren't and the water is not doing so well either. Toss in chronic illness, homelessness, and a government that doesn't give a rats ass about them, it will be a very interesting time.

Good luck,

Trillo

(9,154 posts)
34. ridiculous.
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 05:50 PM
Mar 2015

its ridiculous and insulting to compare having a place to live with plantation owners of the past who owned and beat slaves daily. Comparing a mortgager to any business is a rather severe logic flaw. Apples and oranges.

You're just fear mongering.

And if you're right and things really do get that bad, then that tank of inert welding gas I have might come in useful. Life isn't all its cracked up to be, mostly its just unrewarded labor and insults, such as your own.

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
60. How fucked up a system that was. They labor, and you have to feed and clothe them.
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 07:18 PM
Mar 2015

Now you just sit in your office and they send you the biggest part of their labor, while you laugh and throw McDonalds applications down on them. Then get your lapdogs to tell everyone how right it is, now that the plantations are gone.

They don't need chains, as long as they have your mind.

oh, btw - "then that tank of inert welding gas I have might come in useful" < Your solution is suicide? And I am the one fear mongering? *snort* That's why I mentioned the other category. The rest of us have work to do.

bye.





dreamnightwind

(4,775 posts)
97. Wow
Thu Mar 5, 2015, 02:58 AM
Mar 2015

Probably shouldn't get in the middle of this, maybe you two have some history (I don't know you or your posting history at all, sorry, probably should), but I've always considered the poster you are ignoring to be one of the better ones here. I can see getting pissed off by snark or someone prophesizing a bleak reality but it seems like an over-reaction to me.

You think 30-year mortgages will prevent migration? In my neighborhood in northern California, every 4th home or so is sitting empty, and has been since the '08 collapse, or maybe not quite that long, depended on how much savings the residents had when their housing values collapsed and they lost their jobs. These homes could not be sold, since the mortgages were much larger than the new values of the homes. Once people exhausted their savings, people either walked away or were eventually evicted, and went anywhere they could get a roof over their heads. They got a 7 year ding on their credit record, and some of them face future prosecution by the banks or endless harrassment by collections thugs in a never ending effort by the banks to recover some value. What we needed was principle reduction but the administration let Geithner foam the runway for the banks instead, so we just got screwed.

When a regional economy collapses, as would happen if water was not available, jobs disappear, housing values collapse, and homeowners are left with nothing but the road.

I had a lot of savings, it's all gone now as is my job and wife. Still holding out here, hoping to land a job before my parents can no longer pay the mortgage. I love it here or I would have already given up on it. Even now, 6 1/2 years after the financial collapse, my home is worth less than the balance on the mortgage, and we bought this place about 6 years before the collapse.

When economies collapse, mortgages don't hold people, the people are either evicted or they walk away. Hopefully you never have to learn this first-hand. Best of luck to you.

Trillo

(9,154 posts)
100. economic collapse is different from zero water
Thu Mar 5, 2015, 03:20 AM
Mar 2015

in a region. In mass migrations, some older people will stay behind, unless storm troopers with badges point the gun and say move or die. At that point, it's not much different from breathing welding gas, except the gas would probably be less painful, and I believe it would be better to die by ones own choice than be shoved around and shot by Nazis who are above the law and due process.

You expanded the conversation far beyond what was originally asserted. No, 004 and I have no history that I'm aware of, I just have less tolerance than I used to for ridiculous crap that makes no sense.

It was a new personal policy I adopted a few months ago, maybe 6. I never used to use the ignore function. Now I do, as I don't want to have my mind twisted around by idiocy, which happens a lot here on DU if you let it, and I used to. No more.

dreamnightwind

(4,775 posts)
101. No, it's not
Thu Mar 5, 2015, 03:41 AM
Mar 2015

Zero water would undoubtably bring about economic collapse.

There is some hair-on-fire, IMO, in the OP, asserting that anyone in Nevada, Arizona and California should move (I am in California). There will be regions within those states that dry up, probably, but much of California wil do just fine.

You seem to have missed the point that 30 year mortgages do absolutely nothing to prevent mass migrations. By the time conditions are bad enough to inspire such migrations (and I agree that for the most part we are not there yet and much of these areas will be ok), the economies will have colllapsed and the mortgages will have no meaning, as the some of thee home-owners will lose jobs and their ability to make payments, causing a collapse in real estate value, the homes at that point are un-sellable, followed by evictions and walk-aways, and a downward economic spiral that does end in migration, ala Oklahoma's dust bowl migration to California.

I'm done with this, have said my piece, believe what you want, or have the last word, up to you.

Trillo

(9,154 posts)
103. You missed my point regarding the mortgages...
Thu Mar 5, 2015, 04:10 AM
Mar 2015

IIRC, because most of the thread is now invisible to me, but there was a question, something about why would people stay instead of move before there is zero water. I offered a possible reason, if not more than one. Then I was given this ridiculous apples and oranges comparison, was accused of being a plantation owner (implying slave ownership) or something. I pointed that out, and then was confronted with a scenario that I couldn't even understand, like it was written by a child learning how to string words together in a sentence. Ignore.

dreamnightwind

(4,775 posts)
104. OK
Thu Mar 5, 2015, 04:17 AM
Mar 2015

I can think of plenty of reasons some people would stay rather than leave, seems like talking about trees rather than the forest though, the main point was water crisis = big problems and mass migrations, no? But if you're focusing on some individuals who would stay, sure, I don't disagree at all. I still think you're ignoring a good poster, up to you though.

LiberalArkie

(15,686 posts)
131. I think a lot of people miss what happens when there isn't any water. People leave.
Thu Mar 5, 2015, 03:10 PM
Mar 2015

I might remind them about the great drought in the mid west around the depression time. "Grapes of Wrath". People left farms and property that had been in the family for generations. Loaded what they could and went west.

 

vkkv

(3,384 posts)
119. Sorry to hear that, but STILL underwater value-wise?
Thu Mar 5, 2015, 01:32 PM
Mar 2015

Your value will come back if you have access to good water. I observe that most populated ares have recovered value. Are you in a small rural mountain town that was considered a retirement area, but has no viable self-creating economy? I suppose many town in NorCal up in Shasta, Sonoma, outer Napa, Lassen, Del Norte and similar may have not yet recovered. Humboldt county has gotten really expensive because of the marijuana growers' money and the retiring university personnel. Your place will go back up in value after Californians in Silicon Valley sell their places and move to the woods. I live in Mariposa, Calif. with a healthy flowing artesian well and lot's of land here at 3,050 ft elev., sold my house in Carmel in 2013 and headed for water and four seasons out of the coastal fog.

dreamnightwind

(4,775 posts)
120. Yes, there is still a backlog of bank-owned houses that have to sell
Thu Mar 5, 2015, 01:51 PM
Mar 2015

before home vaues here fully recover. This home's value has climbed back to within shouting distance of the balance owed on the mortgage (I've been making mortgage payments for 13 years though), but to recover the down payment, pay a selling commission and get out of here it still needs to go up by well over $100,000 (nearly 50% of what it is currently worth). But I'm not expecting to recover the down payment, it would be nice just to have the option to sell without owing money or facing foreclosure.

Ideally I would stay here, depends on employment though. We had been living off of my wife's salary and a now depleted inheritance from my family so when my jobwent away some 8 years ago I took time to recover some sanity and spent more time raising our son, restarted a long-neglected music career too, not that there is much money in it, it was what I loved to do.

Water supply is so far holding out, surprisingly, local spring water that has yet to dry up despite this long drought.

Yes I am in a small coastal mountain community, official population 125 people! Very bohemian and rustic, smack in the redwoods, a stream runs through the back yard when it has water in it.

I've never been to Mariposa that I can recall. Sunny? That's what I miss most, can't garden here and have to drive out of the woods to get much sun. Regards.

Skittles

(152,966 posts)
130. so sorry dreamnightwind
Thu Mar 5, 2015, 03:00 PM
Mar 2015

I hope you are hanging in there and I do so wish for better days for you and your parents

 

Android3.14

(5,402 posts)
35. Oh, I dunno, maybe in the title
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 05:52 PM
Mar 2015

"Alarm Bells Toll For Human Civilization As World's 12th Largest Mega-City To Run Out Of Water"

Oilwellian

(12,647 posts)
61. Weird...I don't see the word "end" anywhere in your sentence
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 07:28 PM
Mar 2015

Have you ever looked up the definition of hyperbole?

language that describes something as better or worse than it really is

NickB79

(19,114 posts)
82. A city of millions is running out of water due to climate change
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 10:15 PM
Mar 2015

And that's at "only" 0.8C of warming so far. The projection is that we'll see 3-4C of warming by the end of the 21st century. We're not even close to seeing the true scope of the damage we've succeeded in unleashing.

Exactly how many hundreds of millions of people have to be displaced, how many cities have to become uninhabitable, before it is no longer hyperbole to you?

 

Android3.14

(5,402 posts)
105. Cities have run out of water in the past
Thu Mar 5, 2015, 06:32 AM
Mar 2015

People will move, wars will come and go, cities will rise and fall for many reasons. Cultures adapt to the environment.

Statements like this headline will probably always be hyperbole.

Global warming is not the death knell of humanity. When we go, it will probably be due to a biological, technological or astronomical cause.

dem in texas

(2,672 posts)
36. Treated Waste/Sewer Water
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 06:03 PM
Mar 2015

Some towns in Texas are already putting this into operation - Wichita Falls for example.

h2ebits

(632 posts)
43. Update needed on the article cited
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 06:09 PM
Mar 2015

Please go to the article and read comments for updates. The article apparently first appeared in November 2014. Since then, Sao Paulo was hit with torrential rains and flooding. Unfortunately, their reservoirs did not fill up because they were further north than the heaviest rains.

It's not that the problem went away but rather that it was delayed a bit.

Nevernose

(13,081 posts)
46. In defense of Las Vegas
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 06:17 PM
Mar 2015

They are an international model for smart water use. For instance, something like 99% of water used indoors is recycled and reused.

Their bigger problems are landscaping (which has prompted smarter outdoor use than most other desert cities, except for the casinos) and California & Arizona, which use a disproportionate amount of water per person and the division of which was decided a hundred years ago, when there were only a hundred people in Clark County.

Better villains would be San Diego, LA, or Phoenix.

americannightmare

(322 posts)
74. You seem to have forgotten one big problem...
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 09:18 PM
Mar 2015

such as living in the desert - as the climate warms! You still need water to reuse it. No sympathy whatsoever for desert folks; human beings aren't supposed to live in the desert, at least not on the scale of Phoenix or Vegas. At least in LA or San Diego they can build desalination plants. Completely unsustainable lifestyle - as if the rest of the world that actually lives where there is abundant water isn't bad enough at it...

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/water-environment/two-new-parks-may-add-criticism-las-vegans-waste-water

 

gcomeau

(5,764 posts)
48. Ugh
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 06:25 PM
Mar 2015

Yes, this is a serious problem. But giving it a title like "Alarm bells ring for human civilization" just makes it so fucking hard to take seriously. sorry, but human civilization is not at risk because of this. A lot of people's lives and health, yes, but not Human Civilization.

nationalize the fed

(2,169 posts)
55. Maybe someone in Australia, Israel or Saud Arabia could place a call to the "leaders" in Brazil
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 06:44 PM
Mar 2015

Because if anyone in Brazil looks to the east there is what is called WATER. A lot of it. More than they could even BEGIN TO USE.

Existing Desalination facilities and facilities under construction
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desalination#Existing_facilities_and_facilities_under_construction

Seawater desalination in Australia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seawater_desalination_in_Australia

Don't even bring up Money- the US is spending ~$20 MILLION DOLLARS PER HOUR
on wars and "homeland security". https://www.nationalpriorities.org/cost-of/

Even California can do desalination (it took awhile)



There doesn't have to be a drought anywhere. Let alone the end of the world, which is 2/3 water.

*Trivia: There are 22 Liters of Hydrogen in ONE TABLESPOON of water.

shanti

(21,672 posts)
57. PNW here we come!
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 07:03 PM
Mar 2015

No lack of water up there. I plan to move there when the time is right, probably Oregon.

Warpy

(110,913 posts)
64. I live in one of the few water sustainable cities in the southwest--if we're careful
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 07:59 PM
Mar 2015

and while people are being very careful and consigning things like lawns to oblivion, there are still a few golf courses that haven't Astroturfed the fairways and corporations that maintain bright green lawns that are spray irrigated every other day. Those are the things that worry me, the use of potable water for decorative grass.

I don't get Phoenix and Las Vegas. The climate and jobs markets keep them growing, along with the real estate bust that led to reasonably priced houses. Unless the climatologists and meteorologists are both wrong, they are definitely going to run out of water and rather sooner than later. Either they migrate to that narrow strip of land on the upper west coat or they'll all have to go back east somewhere and it's not going to be pretty.

Potable water has always been in very short supply out west and it always will be. People might be drawn to the endless summer climate of the lower elevations, but they're going to have to make some big changes if they want to live out here. I don't see those changes happening in the "successful" cities like Phoenix, only in the very poor cities like mine.

 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
65. Albuquerque?
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 08:01 PM
Mar 2015

I've heard the aquifer that underlies it is not as vast as it was once thought to be.

Warpy

(110,913 posts)
66. No, which is why the lawns all dried up and blew away
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 08:04 PM
Mar 2015

and the San Juan River Diversion Project was completed. We're OK as long as we are careful.

Even if they suddenly start to be careful (fat chance), Las Vegas and Phoenix are going to be in a lot of trouble very soon.

ffr

(22,649 posts)
72. Why can't they drill deeper like every other city throughout the World is doing?
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 09:11 PM
Mar 2015

And their hot season is coming to a close, so there should be hope on the horizon.

 

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)
80. Are you sure that the rock strata beneath Sao Paulo contains another aquifer deeper down?
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 09:50 PM
Mar 2015

Are you sure that aquifer contains fresh and not brackish water?

Not every city has the same opportunities.

ffr

(22,649 posts)
83. I don't live there and I'm not a geologist, but
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 10:16 PM
Mar 2015

I'd have to believe that in a region with as much historical natural rainfall as they have, in a country is big and wide as theirs, there would be lots of possible areas to find water below the surface. It's not a stretch for them to have aqueducts to deliver that water from far off either, other cities and civilizations have been doing that for thousands of years. That just seems obvious.

But I'm not doubting the gist of the article, cities have always been presented with natural resource problems and Earth's natural resources are not unlimited. So even if they do find another source(s) of lots of water, it's merely a short-term solution for a systemic problem of over-breeding and outstripping of the ecosystem.

It's stories like this that make me wonder when we start speaking up about sustainable human population levels. Seems to be a taboo subject that nobody wants to meaningfully address.

Babel_17

(5,400 posts)
76. Las Vegas eventually finds a new equilibrium
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 09:29 PM
Mar 2015

Expensive recycling and other methods become mandatory and marginal enterprises are forced to vacate. Forethought can prevent a lot of pain, but it's not all that common.

colsohlibgal

(5,275 posts)
79. Get Used To This - Closer To Home
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 09:47 PM
Mar 2015

I recently watched "Last Call At The Oasis" and it's sobering. It's already getting nasty out west as Lake Mead continues to get lower quickly, the fight over what's left of the groundwater is heating up.

I first realized how fast Lake Mead was shrinking watching "How The States Got Their Shapes". Host Brian Unger and the female head of the Lake Mead Marina were standing in an area that was underwater just ten years ago and they weren't close to where the water now was.

My plan was to at some point move out to Arizona but shelved that with the water issue and the fact it's 105 seemingly every day in the summer.

The climate change deniers, most of them bought out by the fossil fuel industry, are threatening our way of life.

niyad

(112,435 posts)
88. remember what happened to mono lake?
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 10:54 PM
Mar 2015

. . . .


Exposed tufa towers in Mono Lake; South Tufa, 1981
Mono Lake's "South Tufa" area
Conservation efforts
Main article: California Water Wars

In order to provide water needs for the growing city of Los Angeles, water was diverted from the Owens River into the Los Angeles Aqueduct in 1913. In 1941, the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power extended the Los Angeles Aqueduct system farther upriver into the Mono Basin. So much water was diverted that evaporation soon exceeded inflow and the surface level of Mono Lake fell rapidly. By 1982 the lake was reduced to 37,688 acres (15,252 ha) 69 percent of its 1941 surface area. "[By 1990, the lake had dropped 45 vertical feet and had lost half its volume]" relative to the 1941 pre-diversion water level.[20] As a result alkaline sands and formerly submerged tufa towers became exposed, the water salinity doubled, and Negit Island became a peninsula, exposing the nests of sea gulls to predators (such as coyotes), and forcing the sea gull colony to abandon this site.

In 1974, Stanford University graduate student David Gaines studied the Mono Lake ecosystem, and he became instrumental in alerting the public of the effects of the lower water level.[21] The National Science Foundation funded the first comprehensive ecological study of Mono Lake, conducted by Gaines and undergraduate students from the University of California at Davis, the University of California at Santa Cruz, and Earlham College. In June 1977, the Davis Institute of Ecology of the University of California published a report, "An Ecological Study of Mono Lake, California," which alerted California to the ecological dangers posed by the redirection of water away from the lake for municipal uses.[21]
Mono Lake viewed from the summit of Mount Dana. Note near-landbridge at left, almost connecting Negit Island with the mainland shoreline.

Gaines formed the Mono Lake Committee in 1978. He and Sally Judy, a UC Davis student, led the committee and pursued an informational tour of California. They joined with the Audubon Society to fight a now famous court battle, the National Audubon Society v. Superior Court, to protect Mono Lake through state public trust laws.[21] While these efforts have resulted in positive change, the surface level is still below historical levels, and exposed shorelines are a source of significant alkaline dust during periods of high winds.

Owens Lake, the once-navigable terminus of the Owens River which had sustained a healthy ecosystem, is now a dry lake bed during dry years due to water diversion beginning in the 1920s. Mono Lake was spared this fate when the California State Water Resources Control Board (after over a decade of litigation) issued an order to protect Mono Lake and its tributary streams on September 28, 1994. Since that time, the lake level has steadily risen. In 1941 the surface level was at 6,417 feet (1,956 m) above sea level.[22] As of October 2013, Mono Lake was at 6,380.6 feet (1,945 m) above sea level.[22] The lake level of 6,392 feet (1,948 m) above sea level is the goal, a goal made more difficult during years of drought in the American West.

. . . .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mono_Lake

catchnrelease

(1,942 posts)
96. Mono Lake supporter here
Thu Mar 5, 2015, 02:51 AM
Mar 2015

The Eastern Sierra is one of my most favorite places to spend time, and especially the Mono Basin area. Over the past 30 years of visiting up there I watched those tufa towers become more exposed. Then after the agreements were reached with LADWP the water level rose and many of the towers disappeared under the water, and fans of the lake rejoiced! Until these past few years when the rain stopped and now the shoreline is retreating again. I fully expect that the fight over the water that should go into the lake will start up again and the 'agreements' will be broken.

There is no way a person can spend any time on the East side of the Sierra and not be aware of what can happen when a place has water and people with power and money want it. They will find a way to get it. Owens Lake was once big enough to have ferry boats cross it and now it's a basically a salt flat. Because powerful people wanted the water and took it.

niyad

(112,435 posts)
115. it is a frightening scenario.
Thu Mar 5, 2015, 12:10 PM
Mar 2015

people were lauding t. boone pickens some time back for his philanthropy. didn't have much to say about how he was buying up all the water in that area--and it wasn't for giving it away.

cemaphonic

(4,138 posts)
140. I think you might be on to something
Fri Mar 6, 2015, 02:42 AM
Mar 2015

Carry the water at the bottom of the ocean,
remove the water at the bottom of the ocean.

Simple

niyad

(112,435 posts)
87. google "coming water wars". so much of what I have read over the last few years shows that
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 10:49 PM
Mar 2015

most of the next wars will be fought over water. ("chinatown", anyone?)

wasn't there some discussion on du a couple of years ago showing that some of the fighting in the middle east has actually been about water, not oil?

 

truebluegreen

(9,033 posts)
111. Massive drought in Syria resulted in crop failures
Thu Mar 5, 2015, 09:16 AM
Mar 2015

and wholesale abandonment of the countryside for the cities, which were not equipped to deal with the influx...which was ignored by Assad...which led to civil unrest...which helped lead to where Syria is now.

Must have been at least a decade ago that the Pentagon--those crack-brained treehuggers!--released a study citing climate change as the biggest long-term security threat to the country.

niyad

(112,435 posts)
116. thank you for pointing out both the syrian situation--and the pentagon report. we remember, but
Thu Mar 5, 2015, 12:12 PM
Mar 2015

many do not.

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
91. Hoarding water, plans to suggest people abandon the city...
Thu Mar 5, 2015, 12:35 AM
Mar 2015

"Behind closed doors, the views are grimmer. In a meeting recorded secretly and leaked to the local news media, Paulo Massato, a senior official at São Paulo’s water utility, said that residents might have to be warned to flee because “there’s not enough water, there won’t be water to bathe, to clean” homes."


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/17/world/americas/drought-pushes-sao-paulo-brazil-toward-water-crisis.html

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
95. Their leadership is the problem
Thu Mar 5, 2015, 01:32 AM
Mar 2015

It has one of the highest murder rates in the world, and they ignore fundamental infrastructure problems in their city.

Oh wait, I could say the same thing about our decaying infrastructure and law enforcement corruption, too.

I just feel like I'm throwing rocks. I know it is bad, but aren't we headed there, too?

 

Albertoo

(2,016 posts)
102. Cities come and go.
Thu Mar 5, 2015, 03:46 AM
Mar 2015

It wouldn't be a first in history.

Borobudur, Machu Pichu, Angkor, Sukhotai, Ayuttayah, all were at the center of thriving cities.

Kalidurga

(14,177 posts)
107. They just need a couple hundred of these
Thu Mar 5, 2015, 07:51 AM
Mar 2015
http://www.wired.com/2015/01/architecture-and-vision-warkawater/

/


I found this when I was reading about how some armies create water from digging a trench in the ground to capture morning dew. I thought that their had to be a better way, more efficient and one that would be able to harvest more water. That is when I stumbled on this invention. Using this plus a design I am working on would eliminate water shortages probably forever.
 

Lean

(39 posts)
110. Meanwhile.....
Thu Mar 5, 2015, 09:14 AM
Mar 2015

Energy companies use 4 - 5 million gallons of water for just one hydro-fracturing well. That's 4 - 5 MILLION GALLONS per well! And they're drilling thousands of them. Then, they dump the contaminated water back into ground aquifers. Americans better wake up! The day of reckoning is coming.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
113. hell
Thu Mar 5, 2015, 10:32 AM
Mar 2015

the human race is choosing to believe their is no real problem, a few, relatively speaking, are warning there are huge problems looming just over the horizon, environmental, social, financial, many on boards where critical thinking is still a skill like this one. But most feel they have no power to control events and that's the way the PTB want it, I believe they are aiming for huge population eradication, to ensure their future, not ours, but that's just MY CT. Just keep speaking up whenever and wherever possible, we might be able to change the world for the 'better'.......

Beach Rat

(273 posts)
114. It means that avoidance & adaptation are the priorities
Thu Mar 5, 2015, 10:55 AM
Mar 2015

Even if the greenhouse gas levels were somehow returned to per-industrialization levels now, there would still be another 100 years of warming to content with.

Xithras

(16,191 posts)
118. In wealthier nations like the U.S., we'll never actually run out of water.
Thu Mar 5, 2015, 12:45 PM
Mar 2015

What we'll see is the commodification of water and an increased reliance on water sources that are currently too expensive to tap. Why don't we use desalinization and pump it to the dry areas today? Because it's prohibitively expensive, and right now we have other options. But what happens when the fresh water runs out and we have to choose between death & economic collapse vs. spending two, three, or ten times as much for water? We'll spend the money. And the poor will be crushed even further into poverty, and the middle class will diminish that much further, and the rich will continue to get even richer.

lark

(23,003 posts)
122. The last part of the article is unfair.
Thu Mar 5, 2015, 02:03 PM
Mar 2015

Sao Paulo isn't all jetsetters who could live anywhere but choose to live there. There are a lot of peole, like my inlaws, who have jobs that would only be available in Brazil in this city, whose ancestors were Portugese who migrated there hundreds of years ago and Indian natives. My mother in law could not afford to move. Many people there are poor and can't afford to move. They are in a bad situation due to political decisions over which they had no control or input. They are the victims, not the causes.

My daugher and son-in-law want her to move here and have offerred for her to live with them, however she's 68, doesn't speak a word of English, and is terrified of flying.

flvegan

(64,389 posts)
139. If only there were something we could do, almost immediately
Fri Mar 6, 2015, 01:11 AM
Mar 2015

that would reduce our requirement for water on a massive level.

Go vegan.

 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
141. I doubt that much of Sao Paulo's municipal water supply is used to raise livestock
Fri Mar 6, 2015, 01:20 PM
Mar 2015

I also doubt that veganism will make many inroads in Brazil any time soon.

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