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[G_j]

This message was self-deleted by its author (G_j) on Wed Apr 29, 2015, 09:46 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[hrmjustin]

1. Praying for them.

[applegrove]

2. Vibes

[Liberal_in_LA]

3. . and setup a gofundme account or something

[shenmue]

4. ...

[Mnemosyne]

5. ...

[scarletwoman]

6. ...

[blkmusclmachine]

7. God works in mysterious ways. It is not for us to know, or question.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

14. Yep, so mysterious that

he'll take the time to listen to prayers from Americans but won't do a damn thing to prevent the earthquake in the first place. If God's omnipotent, then he's a cruel bastard.

[yeoman6987]

201. On this thread you wrote that? Wow!

[Arugula Latte]

208. How is that incorrect?

What kind of a sociopath of a deity who supposedly has the power to intervene would cause or not prevent this kind of death, destruction, and suffering?

The god of monotheism is a sick, twisted, cruel being (oh, yeah, and also so "loving&quot . Glad I don't believe in it.

[yeoman6987]

210. Well I don't know and I am not sure if their is a God or not

But there is a time and place for everything and right now a group of our DU friends want to have a nice OP giving wonderful thought and prayers to Nepal. I don't see anything wrong with it considering we have thousands of OPs to read or even make our own. What happened to respecting differences in everyone? It doesn't just work with those we agree with.

[Arugula Latte]

213. It seems weird to tell people to pray for Nepal,

and solicit help from the same entity that presumably caused the carnage in the first place. Talk about an abusive relationship.

As you can see, it strikes a lot of us as inappropriate to post this here on DU. People can of course pray if they want to, but jeez, religion should be kept to oneself. This isn't an evangelical kind of board.

[el_bryanto]

214. believers have to put up with constant attacks on believers in GD

Much more direct and pointed than this. Certainly I find it offensive and inappropriate for people to post those kinds of attacks; but they keep doing it. So either the Mods need to shuffle all of these types of posts off to the appropriate venue (which I would be fine with) - or we just need to get used to the fact that we will see posts we feel are inappropriate.

Bryant

[yeoman6987]

216. Well I don't disagree but there is a religion group

I guess the OP was just meant as a simple thread.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

221. The whole "God works in mysterious ways" is incredibly insulting

Let's play a hypothetical exercise: say you have knowledge that there are serious mechanical problems with the brakes on a vehicle that is soon to be driven by four young college students on a camping trip in a mountainous region. And let's say that you withheld that information and the brakes gave out on a high altitude hairpin turn causing the vehicle to plummet several hundred feet into a ravine, killing all four kids.

The parents of the dead college kids are obviously upset to find that you could have prevented their deaths. Do you think they'll be assuaged by "yeoman6987 works in mysterious ways"? Or, would they sue your pants off for the obvious malicious nature of your actions (or lack of actions)?

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then He is not omnipotent. Is He able, but not willing? Then He is malevolent. Is He both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is He neither able nor willing? Then why call Him God?" - Epicurus

[mr blur]

15. You forgot the Sarcasm smiley. At least I hope you did.

Otherwise humanity is doomed.

[alarimer]

51. If this is how he works, he is a malevolent bastard.

I prefer to see this as more evidence of a lack of god(s) than anything else.

so fuck god.

[phil89]

61. Seriously?

It's not up to us to question? That's just offensive. Is that seriously a good way to live life? It's our moral duty to question everything.

[snooper2]

99. So he just got bored, hey Moses, watch this...

Been kind of quiet on Earth for a bit...watch me move these tectonic plates a little LOL

[Oktober]

105. That is just fucking creepy...

[PassingFair]

183. We are only sure that if there is a god, it is not moral. Or it is not all powerful.

So praying to it won't help either way.

Sam Harris lays this out pretty succinctly. Check it out.

[HassleCat]

186. Question

God does not work in mysterious ways, when it comes to human suffering. God does not increase or decrease the amount of human pain, suffering, etc. that accompanies natural disasters. God does not stop wars. God does not feed the hungry. God does not heal the sick. People do those things, not God. Pray if you want to, but sending money is the only way to have any real impact.

[MissDeeds]

8. ...

[bananas]

9. k&r, twitter hashtag link

https://twitter.com/hashtag/PrayForNepal?src=hash

[G_j]

10. thank you nt

[erroltiozon]

11. #PrayForNepal

Amen #prayfornepal

Let's help our brothers and sisters in Nepal through this campaign:
http://teespring.com/letsprayfornepal

[Ron Obvious]

12. And what do you think that's going to do for them, exactly?

I think they might need real help instead.

[NightWatcher]

13. But a hashtag and a gofundme or a shirt would make ME feel better

And that's what's important.

I'm sure governments and NGO's like Drs without borders and the international Red Cross and red crescent will help.

I actually let out a cynical "ha" when I saw the hashtag and idea that someone setup a gofundme account.

Can't we just say "that's a shame" and get on with it.

[ScreamingMeemie]

16. You are not alone. A "friend" on FB (yes, I proudly use FB)

used the social media to shame all of us who had not posted about Nepal. Because it's important to take a moment out of playing Candy Crush to do that.

I call it Slacktivism. Someone wants to have a sweet little article written about how "heroic" he/she was in setting up a GoFundMe or creating a unique "hashtag." (which my dad still refers to as "pound sign," and I love him for it)

The rest of us? We feel bad, possibly donate to funds that are available 24/7 and HAVE BEEN FOR YEARS for just this sort of thing (see: Red Cross, World Vision, etc.) and move on.

I wait with breath held for Bono/Bruce Springsteen/Heidi Klum/insert name of other celebrity looking to bring attention to him/herself to announce a "televised benefit concert for the 'People of Nepal'"

[G_j]

18. Springsteen's life built on foundation of giving -- quietly

http://www.nj.com/springsteen/stories/0811charity.html

(FYI)
By Jesse Drucker
The Star-Ledger

For millions of his fans, Bruce Springsteen's music has been a gift. He sings about regular people with real-life troubles, with lyrics that speak to the average guy.

But to dozens of real people living in Monmouth County -- people like waitress Toni Howard of Long Branch and her husband, John, a wallpaper hanger and painter -- Springsteen's gifts have gone beyond his inspirational songs. A gift from "The Boss" meant a new heating system for their home.

Since 1989, Springsteen has anonymously donated hundreds of thousands of dollars to low-income people for home repairs throughout Monmouth County.

A little-known charity called The Foundation, which lists Springsteen as its president and sole benefactor, has donated at least $350,845 to dozens of households since 1995, according to Internal Revenue Service records.

---

"We've always kept a pretty low profile," said McDuffie, who has run the charity throughout its 11-year existence. "The problem with putting something like this in the paper is then you get the greedy, not the needy. The way you have to handle this type of an organization is very quietly. You don't want to get Mrs. Miller and then the next thing you have her brother and her sister. The more low-key you can keep it, the better."

Over his career, Springsteen has offered many acts of charity, including benefit concerts for Vietnam veterans and food banks, and contributions to a variety of causes from his other charity, The Thrill Hill Foundation. But he has consistently shied away from publicity.

..more..

[ScreamingMeemie]

19. I have no beef with what Bruce gives quietly... I have a beef with star-studded "caring..."

I have a beef with hashtagging (or pound-signing, as my 70-year-old dad says). If Bruce Springsteen is all you have carried away from my post, you missed the point.

[G_j]

24. I get what you are saying

just pointing out that Springsteen has always kept the majority his charity work a secret. You're the one who brought him up.

[ScreamingMeemie]

26. I believe I brought up "Bono/Bruce Springsteen/Heidi Klum/insert name of other celebrity looking to"

You chose to focus on one name. That's not getting what I'm saying. Thank you.

[LostOne4Ever]

33. It is a pound sign damn it! Kudos to your dad! (nt)

[nadinbrzezinski]

79. I admit, I was at a gaming convention all weekend

so after we were done with that, and got some food in (which many of the victims cannot do at the moment) we kicked 20 bucks to the International Red Cross, and then I sat down to compile a list of charities.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026572898

I even went ahead and posted it here in full, without fancy formatting. As I told my hubby, assuming we survived the event, if we were there, I would be hard pressed to put the camera down and not rush to the local red cross and volunteer my services.

[LanternWaste]

96. I don't think the one denies the other.

I don't think the one denies the other.

[yeoman6987]

204. Your welcome to skip this thread but you purposely

Came here to hyjack this for your own reasons. Start your own OP if you don't like this one and allow us this one nice OP. Now let me get back to praying.

[Ron Obvious]

224. It's a simple enough question and I'd appreciate an answer to it.

Spell it out for me. What will this accomplish?

I'm not hijacking anything. You seem very defensive.

[hrmjustin]

17. Continued prayers for the victims and the dead.

If people can I hope they give to relief organizations.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

20. Instead of praying, why not write a check and do something that actually helps?

http://www.redcross.org/news/article/Red-Cross-Responding-to-78-Magnitude-Earthquake-in-Nepal
http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=content.view&cpid=1888#.VT02yWPkwyo

[hrmjustin]

21. We can do both.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

22. The OP didn't ask for both

The OP asked for prayer only.

[hrmjustin]

23. True but my statement is also true.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

25. I didn't reply to you

I replied to the OP.

[hrmjustin]

27. ok.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

28. Yep

[hrmjustin]

29. But i am allowed to respond to you.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

31. Didn't say you couldn't

[pintobean]

36. Shitting in the thread is very helpful.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

37. If you notice, I posted links to groups that would actually help

(many of them religious based groups). Prayer is good at making the pray-er feel better but does little for the pray-ee.

[pintobean]

38. Yes, you're so helpful.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

39. It's ironic that you have such disdain for my post

And none for the OP. Which one contained information that might actually be useful to the Nepalese people?

[pintobean]

41. The OP is a person of faith

asking other people of faith to pray. It isn't hurting anything. But, some people have to come into the thread to play 'I'm superior' and stink the place up. No one was knocking your lack of faith. Why the need to insult the faithful? Is it an attempt to convert, or just 'look at me' shit?

If you really just wanted to get helpful links out, an OP of your own would have accomplished more.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

43. I think it does do harm, thus my post

When people think praying helps and don't anything else beyond their useless supplication, then I think urging people of faith to pray has the possibility of hurting the fundraising needed to assist the people of Nepal.

If I do something to actually help Nepal, and the OP only offers up prayer, then yep I consider myself to have the superior position.

[pintobean]

44. Pffft

Other than governments, religious organizations will be doing the most, as usual.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

46. I didn't say that religious organizations weren't going to assist

In fact, my links point to several religious groups that are doing something useless in Nepal.

My point was more about the meaningless gesture of prayer and how some to think it abrogates them from their responsibility to actually do something.

[rug]

67. Oh bullshit. Document the harm, other than to your sensibilities.

[LanternWaste]

98. I like to pretend I have absolute knowledge of all relevant actions taken by other people too.

"When people think praying helps and don't anything else beyond their useless supplication..."

I like to pretend I have absolute knowledge of all relevant actions taken by other people too. As long as we admit it's merely pretense...

[yeoman6987]

206. Not for you to dictate or decide.

[G_j]

70. actually, I wouldn't call myself that.

But I posted it for those who might be interested. Apparently, that pushes some buttons. I'm not sure what to think of prayer. Certainly thinking compassionate thoughts about someone is probably better than arguing with people on the internet.
In theory, a prayer could take all but a few seconds. It's a thought. No reason that should prevent anyone from doing anything else.

[Warren Stupidity]

122. There is a special place here on DU were the sensitive faithful can brag

about how faithy they are without fear of being ridiculed. This is not that place.

[pintobean]

128. The forum hosts seem to say otherwise.

Who's bragging, Mr. Stupidity?

[Warren Stupidity]

129. The "please help us pray" people are, mr. beano.

They are wearing their faith on their sleeves, exactly as their alleged god told them not to.

Also the posted SOP of interfaith has, at this point, nothing to do with how that forum is run. But you know that.

[pintobean]

131. The thread has been up since Saturday.

I would suggest the hide thread option, before you melt. I don't think your lectures and reprimands are going to have any affect on the faithful.

Eta - you know Beano fights gas, right?

[truebrit71]

112. Interestingly it is precisely as effective as prayer...

...in fact, probably more so, as it may jolt people enough to do something actually useful and donate...

[AtheistCrusader]

119. Without material works, like donations of time or money, the thread wasn't helpful anyway.

[rug]

66. And you didn't start an OP at all on Nepal.

Instead, you pissed on a thread and, then, finally posted a link.

[pintobean]

69. That link came 4 hours after

a turd in the punchbowl.

[rug]

72. No tragedy too small to advance an agenda.

[truebrit71]

77. Hello pot, meet kettle...

....

[Arugula Latte]

88. You know all about that.

[rug]

89. If you mean I've read yours and others's responses, yeah, I've seen plenty.

[LanternWaste]

97. The one doesn't deny the other.

The one doesn't deny the other.

[uppityperson]

189. here is a thread with link to many reliable and reputable place to donate

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026586440
A kick would be appreciated.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

223. Done

[WillyT]

30. K & R !!!

[SidDithers]

32. Or, do something that actually makes a difference...

How to help Nepal: 7 vetted charities doing relief work following the earthquake

Sid

[Yorktown]

35. Absolutely.

Cash works. Not prayers.

[octoberlib]

58. +1

[rug]

68. 'And".

[SidDithers]

75. "Or"...nt

Sid

[rug]

76. bimary thinking leads to awkward positions.

[A HERETIC I AM]

94. Who is "Mary"?

[rug]

95. My typing teacher.

[A HERETIC I AM]

106. How sad.

[rug]

107. You have a low bar for sadness, if a typo puts you over the edge.

[A HERETIC I AM]

110. LOL

It's my understanding you're an attorney. Or played one on TV. Or stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Or read the word "Attorney" in a comic book somewhere.

If you discern the statement "how sad" as me being put "over the edge", then I would submit your perceptive abilities need work.

A LOT of work.

Huh. Interesting. I'm beginning to see, now.

Carry on.

[rug]

118. Oh my perceptive abilities are just fine.

It's my understanding you're an atheist. Or played one on TV. Or stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Or read the word "atheist" next to a cartoon somewhere on the internet.

[AtheistCrusader]

120. I like Mercy Corps myself, but their local assets were directly impacted, so others might be

better positioned to aid at this time.

I sent them some money anyway though.

http://www.mercycorps.org/
Four out of four star rating.

[PowerToThePeople]

197. holy shit, I agree with sid.

Hell must be freezing over.

Oh wait, there is no hell. Or heaven above us.

just because...

[A HERETIC I AM]

34. Two hands working do more than ten thousand clasped in prayer. n/t

[Codeine]

40. #wasteoffuckingtime

#uselessplattitudesdonothing #theydontevenshareyourmythology

[truebrit71]

45. ^^^This^^^

X 100000000000

Your prayers and your hashtags mean precisely squat to those affected.

Want to help? Donate. You know, something actually fucking useful...

[MFrohike]

42. Funny thing

I note that all the people whining about your OP are busy posting instead of following their own advice and actually doing something. I guess it's easier to tout your cool kid credentials than to not flaunt one's own hypocrisy.

Nobody ever said you couldn't pray and give money or time. Only those who can't read what is actually written, as opposed to what they'd like to read, have claimed the opposite.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

48. And if the OP had posted links to orgs setup to help Nepal, then you'd have a point

Instead, he spent 15 seconds to post a useless hashtag asking DUers to uselessly pray for the Nepalese. It probably made him feel great, but it did fuck all to help the Nepalese.

[MFrohike]

53. Comedy

I have a point because you just helped prove it. Thanks for the assist!

[rug]

71. You didn't do a thing until halfway into the thread.

Be honest, evolve, your interest here is more to promote an anti-anything religious viewpoint than to help Nepal. Feel free to deny it.

[truebrit71]

141. I'm anti-religious and I donated....

And you? Here to stir the shit as usual, or do you have something constructive to add for a change?

[rug]

143. Who gives a shit, even assuming the unverifiable to be true.

Read the thread. The shit-stirring started when the shit stirrers decided to use this thread and 4,000 dead as a fine opportunity to bash religion and religious believers.

And here you are to jump on in.

You fool no one.

Oh, about your alleged donation.

Way to go, bro!

[rug]

145. Yeah, "alleged donatiom".

Maybe I'm a simple skeptic but it's easy to post bullshit on the internet.

So, until I see evidence, it's alleged.

[truebrit71]

146. Oh you're simple alright....

You show me yours and I'll show you mine.

Or did you just pray instead?

[rug]

147. I see. A demand for evidence reduces you to Pee Wee Herman retorts.

[truebrit71]

148. Just following your lead....

So did you donate or pray, or did you just come here to stir the shit?

[rug]

149. If I were stirring shit, I wouldn't be able to post any more in this thread.

[Arugula Latte]

83. How do you know?

It takes a minute or two to reply to a DU thread. How do you know that people aren't also donating, etc. with their other 1,398 minutes in a day? Nobody ever said you couldn't reply to a stupid OP and also give money or time.

[MFrohike]

86. Correct

I don't know. I felt it was fair to tar the whiners with the same brush they used against the OP. Cheers for being the first to notice.

[ScreamingMeemie]

108. Actually, before I even stopped in at DU yesterday, I sent in my donation to World Vision.

We don't get to make assumptions when we don't know people. Not a cool kid. Sorry.

[MFrohike]

135. To you, I'm sorry

It wasn't right of me to generalize, but it was a fair play toward the cool kids. Toward you, it wasn't.

[MoonRiver]

47. Prayers for this heartbreaking tragedy...

[MoonRiver]

49. The hypocrisy of some criticizing the OP is mind boggling!

I've contributed to Nepal. And I not allowed to pray also?

[pintobean]

50. The self anointed thought police say no.

[BuddhaGirl]

56. One of my friends has family in Kathmandu

she has asked for prayers and good thoughts for Nepal, in addition to what donations/other help is possible.

What the thread-shitters say is just noise...they knew they would be antagonizing and went ahead anyway

[EvolveOrConvolve]

52. The hypocrisy of some criticizing the criticism of the OP is mind boggling

I've donated to Nepal - am I not allowed to criticize those that think prayer is enough?

(BTW, I don't mind at all if you pray, as long as you're doing something useful as well)

[G_j]

54. why should it matter to you?

one way or the other.. btw, I didn't catch where anyone stated prayer is enough.

[Lordquinton]

55. Why should it matter to you?

if people are criticizing prayer?

[EvolveOrConvolve]

57. A couple of reasons

First, I dislike those who think praying is enough. It's not. It's worse than doing nothing because it influences others to do nothing.

Second, I dislike the smug arrogance of people who think god will listen to them when they pray, but couldn't be bothered to prevent the earthquake from happening in the first place.

Third, I dislike the egoism involved in performing an act that makes the prayor feel better without actually providing any benefit to the target of the prayer. It belies a certain self-centeredness that is rampant in American culture.

[G_j]

62. obviously you have issues about people praying

but why be your brother's keeper? Just as one doesn't need someone telling them they need Jesus, they don't need someone berating them for saying a prayer. Either way, it's annoying.

[rug]

74. In other words, your fee-fees were hurt.

[smirkymonkey]

80. +1000

[nadinbrzezinski]

85. I don't pray

and I agree mostly with you, but... if people want to pray and donate to a charity, in whichever order, as long as some money goes to the charity... I am cool with it.

Though there are some folks in our society who cannot afford to donate... they tend to be rather poor so giving even two bucks might be troublesome. If they feel better by praying... I can live with that as well.

But mostly I agree with you, that prayer is quite self centered, and really does not help. That said. for accident victims et al, it could. The effect is like that of a placebo, we have some evidence from research (evidence based and all), so I have been known to pray with families.

But if you can afford to spare a couple bucks... give some money to an agency of your choice, and then, if you must, pray.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

222. I agree with you

But the OP simply posted an exhortation to prayer. If she/he doesn't have the money to donate, that's okay - not everyone has those types of resources. But the OP could have asked for prayer while at the same time putting a couple minutes effort into finding good charities that have boots on the ground doing real good for the people of Nepal. Posting links is free.

[rug]

73. (Except upthread you said prayer is harmful.)

[truebrit71]

64. But ask yourself which of those two actions actually helps?

...

[Arugula Latte]

87. When you pray you should ask your god why it caused or didn't prevent the quake in the first place.

[truebrit71]

133. Perhaps they were praying to the "wrong" god?

Someone on FB posted this disgusting tweet from a "christian" that said basically that he hoped that none of the 'pagan temples' were rebuilt and they were all converted to christianity...

Meanwhile thousands have died, thousands more are buried or missing, and here we are bickering which is better, donations or wishful thinking...

[Arugula Latte]

150. I saw that!

Ugh.

Such airtight logic. Clearly, they should all convert to Christianity because God never harms Christians in any way, shape, or form, as a reward for them believing in the correct religion. Why, they are immune to all earthquakes and other natural disasters, cancer and other diseases, accidents, wars, famine, you name it.

[Iggo]

59. I donated instead.

http://www.directrelief.org/2015/04/nepal-earthquake-emergency-update/

[hrmjustin]

60. All this over a simple call to prayer.

Btw we have a prayer circle if you wish to post prayers in there.

http://election.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1225

[truebrit71]

63. Or you could do something useful and donate...

... which actually DOES work....

Just be careful of the scams out there...I saw a post elsewhere that had a list of charities and organizations that were involved that were the most helpful/effective.... I'll see if i can find it and post it here....

[hrmjustin]

65. I am not going to argue over prayer with you but yes donate.

[Arugula Latte]

82. And why would a supernatural being that didn't prevent this earthquake listen to prayers?

[hrmjustin]

84. I pray for strength to get through trials and tribulations.

We just pray. Believers pray because it is a part of our lives.

[AtheistCrusader]

121. Is your life on the line, in this tragedy?

How is the weather over there in Old Kathmandu, today?

[Warren Stupidity]

123. How the flying fuck does that help people in nepal devastated by an earthquake?

[Oktober]

103. Checked off the earthquake...

... back to giving cancer to children...

[Arugula Latte]

113. Indeed.

Such a "loving" deity.

[brooklynite]

90. Is a Prayer Circle more or less effective than individual prayer?

My guess is that they're about the same.....

[hrmjustin]

91. More.

[brooklynite]

92. I see - so if I'm not lucky enough to have a GROUP pray for me, I'm more likely to suffer?

[hrmjustin]

93. No. I do pray that only good things will happen.

When I pray I give thanks and praise to God, and ask for forgiveness and strength. I also lift up others in prayer and pray for the needs of others.


I don't believe the divine decides what happens from moment to moment. I do not believe the divine decides who lives or dies or who is healthy or who is sick. We have the laws of nature and chance and probability.

I mainly pray for strength and forgiveness for my sins.

[snooper2]

100. Yeah, but we can only pray to your approved list of gods/goddesses

[hrmjustin]

101. Whio said that? I know I sure as hell did not!

[snooper2]

111. My posts and OP to the FSM God were locked and attacked

because not on your approved list of deities

[hrmjustin]

114. Because it is a parody of religion and mocking religion is not allowed in that room.

[truebrit71]

132. Who are you to say that?

The FSM is just as real as all of the other religions that came before it...

Next you'll be saying that mormonism and scientology aren't "real religions" either....

[hrmjustin]

134. Look at its origins.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster

[truebrit71]

136. The very same could be said about scientology....

... no?

[hrmjustin]

137. People can make whatever argument they like.

[truebrit71]

138. Except for when you lock the threads, right?

[hrmjustin]

139. Well when one is in a safe haven one should remember the rules.

[truebrit71]

140. That is pretty rich....

...

[hrmjustin]

142. Oh how so?

[cleanhippie]

152. Difficult to follow the rules when you are the one interpreting them for everyone else, based

upon whether you personally like the post or not.

[hrmjustin]

153. I am sorry?

[cleanhippie]

154. Keep making Jesus proud.

You telling others what religions are legitimate or not is exactly what he would want.

[hrmjustin]

155. Flying spaghetti monster is a paradoy of religion.

[cleanhippie]

158. To you, perhaps. But not to those that believe in it.

From where I stand, your religion (people coming back from the dead, eating crackers and wine that turn into flesh and blood of said dead person, etc) is just, if not more, absurd and ridiculous as FSM, Mormonism, Scientology...

Just because it doesn't make sense to you, or because you don't understand it, doesn't mean it isn't real and true to someone else.

So much for that equality, tolerance, and acceptance you like to spew so much. At least we all get to see the real you in the daylight now.

[hrmjustin]

159. If you have an issue with my hosting decision you can put your complaint here;

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1259

[cleanhippie]

160. It's not your hosting decisions, it's your blatant hypocrisy and intolerance.

But if you can sleep well knowing that your behavior as a host is hypocritical and intolerant, who am I to judge. I'm sure Jesus approves.

You have a nice day now, ya' hear?

[hrmjustin]

161. Bye buddy!

[cleanhippie]

162. Sorry, I cannot be buddies with you, Justin.

Intolerant hypocrites that act one way but preach otherwise fall to the bottom of my list.


You've got plenty of other buddies that don't seem to mind, so I'm sure you're not too disappointed by my rejection.

Again, you have a nice day.

[hrmjustin]

163. You know if you feel that I am a hypocrite and intolerant you should inform the admins.

otherwise I can't really take you seriously.

[cleanhippie]

164. It's apparent you can't take me seriously.

You spend it all on yourself.

[hrmjustin]

165. Show the courage of your convictions and tell skinner about your concerns about me.

Step up.

[cleanhippie]

167. Have you seen the backlog in ATA?

I'd probably get better results praying instead.


Anyway, I'm not a schoolyard tattle-tale. I confront bullies to their face. YMMV.

[hrmjustin]

170. That is just making excuses Cleanhippie.

If you had the courage of your convictions you would start one now. So it takes some time for a response, big freaking deal.


Put up or haunt me no longer.

[cleanhippie]

172. lol. I see your childish taunt with one of my own.

[hrmjustin]

174. No I am challenging you to put up.

You have made accusations against me here and you should go tell skinner your concerns. You know what I think of your opinion but if you have serious concerns about me you should bring them to the attention of the owner of this site.


I can do it for you if you like.

[cleanhippie]

176. !

[hrmjustin]

179. You just comfirmed what I thought.

You got nothing and you can't put it up to the owner.


Just sad.

[cleanhippie]

181. !

[Oktober]

175. Exactly as legitimate and ridiculous as Christianity, Islam or Judaism...

I think you realize it on some level and it really makes folks itchy...

[hrmjustin]

177. I don't think you should presume to speak for me.

[cleanhippie]

178. They're not speaking for you, they're interpteting your actions.

[Oktober]

185. No one is speaking for you...

I am stating my personal belief that in most of the religious population there is a logical core buried deep that can't be beaten all the way to death with myth and fear. Still working on the ratios...

You may have killed yours entirely but I'm an optimist and am playing the odds as I see them.

Hope for you yet...

[hrmjustin]

187. You do realize how insulting your post is?

[mr blur]

190. But Justin, don't you realise that NOBODY takes you seriously?

I mean, you're amusing and all but, really, take you seriously?

You can't even leave in a huff without immediately coming back to point out that if everyone continues to not act the way you want them to then you're going to leave in a huff. Again.

It would be so much easier, wouldn't it, if you could just ban everyone who doesn't act like you want them to? But who has time to be a host of that many groups? And it would get awfully lonely, wouldn't it? Be like being in Interfaith and talking to yourself. But everywhere.

Never mind, soon you'll have 100,000 posts and can start on the next 100,000. Remember, don't be tempted to actually put anything in the body of them or you'll never get there. Anyway, if it's not broken, why fix it, eh?

[Oktober]

191. Why is that?

Please be specific...

[hrmjustin]

192. Really? There is hope for me doesn't sound insulting?

[Oktober]

193. Like I said...

I think it sounds optimistic...

[hrmjustin]

194. Like I said...

I think it sounds insulting.

[Oktober]

195. I'm OK with that...

I still have a tiny bit of hope that the little voice of logic could break through one day... If only for a moment...

Hallelujah!

[hrmjustin]

196. I have hope you will treat me with respect one day.

Bye!

[cleanhippie]

180. It's part of the shtick.

[cleanhippie]

151. Perhaps it's just a part of being a tyrant or dictator?

Which isn't surprising considering that tyrannical and dictatorial behavior is an attribute of just about every god humans have ever believed in. Don't believe me? Read the Bible for starters.

[nadinbrzezinski]

78. Do not pray

find a charity in the list we put together at Reporting San Diego, and cross posted here, without the fancy links though. I really did not feel like getting that fancy linking done here.

Give money. Prayers don't buy medicines, and certainly do not buy tents, They also do not buy building materials needed for the recovery, or the long term therapy.

Oh we already did by the way,.

Prayers in these cases do both jack and shit.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026572898

[Arugula Latte]

81. I would never pray to the sociopath of a deity that would cause/allow this.

[Oktober]

102. ... or you could do something useful

What a bunch of bullshit... Maybe you can go whole hog and send them some good vibes.

I'm sure they'll really appreciate that....

[G_j]

109. So if someone asked for good vibes for their grandmother

in the hospital, you would come at them with a bunch of profanity and bad vibes?

Incidentally, the people of Nepal are generally very religious. Buddhists do believe in praying for humanity. Prayers and good thoughts are welcome. But hey, you are obviously superior to all that.

And it is so fucking intellectually dishonest, and insulting to assert that someone taking a moment of prayer cannot donate or offer other assistance. Do you really think people are that stupid? Yea, I guess you do..

[Oktober]

115. They may or may not be religious...

... But if you asked the folks who need it which they prefer, vibes/prayers/nothing vs food/aid/medicine...

Which one do you think they would want? Any energy wasted on such frivolous nonsense could be better spent on actually helping.

[nadinbrzezinski]

116. While I agree that vibes are useless

I would offer to you that some studies in evidence based medicine have found prayer to have an actual placebo effect

https://www.mja.com.au/journal/2007/186/10/prayer-medicine-how-much-have-we-learned

Some have found it to have none.

In the environment of a quake on the other side of the world, if the OP gives money to a charity actually doing work on the ground, a prayer will not be wasted effort. Why? Unless you are getting on an actual plane to go help... physically.

It takes just as long as donating money though.

And for religious folks, mind you, I know exactly where I lost mine. it is something else they do.

So vibes, jury is out as to the placebo effect, but money, just make sure you donate to a charity that will actually use money in the field.

[G_j]

117. If you still insist on the absurdity of making it

one or the other, fine, that's your mental construct. Lots of projection there. I'm finished, thought police are thought police.

[Warren Stupidity]

125. The nepalese people are not requesting our prayers.

What they could use is clean water, medical supplies, rescue equipment of all sorts, etc.

[G_j]

126. they could use is clean water, medical supplies, rescue equipment of all sorts?

Wow! I learn something new on DU everyday!

[Warren Stupidity]

127. How can they use your prayers?

[G_j]

130. you know someone could say a simple prayer while they are taking a dump,

or pouring a cup of coffee. It's a few thoughts out of a million. You really want to tell people what to think?

It's obviously doesn't feed or clothe anyone. I don't really consider myself a person of faith. I posted the OP simply as a public service for those who might be interested. It's rather funny how many bitter angry people have showed up. Anyone ever heard of live and let live?

[Capt. Obvious]

104. Prayers are delicious

and nourishing.

[el_bryanto]

156. It's interesting that the mention of prayer is so offensive to so many. nt

[hrmjustin]

157. Sad but true.

[PoutrageFatigue]

166. It's interesting that the mention that prayer is ineffective is so offensive to many...

Especially here in GD....perhaps you should take this up in the Religion group where atheist-bashing is part of the SOP...

[hrmjustin]

168. The religion group does not have atheist bashing in its sop.

it is an open group that challenging believers and non-believers is allowed.

[PoutrageFatigue]

169. Are you denying that atheist-bashing occurs on a DAILY basis in that group?

And it is permitted, and in fact encouraged by participation by the hosts...hey wait...aren't you a host of that forum?

[hrmjustin]

171. I am not a host of the religion room.

[PoutrageFatigue]

173. My mistake.

[muriel_volestrangler]

198. It's interesting that you didn't notice the description of some DUers as 'vermin' in a reply to you

in your thread, in the group you host, and to which you replied. Until someone alerted on it nearly a day later and it was pointed out, that is.

[hrmjustin]

199. No I didn't notice it. i skimmed through his post last night.

Missed the word.

I sent him a note on it.

[muriel_volestrangler]

202. It wasn't just that word, though, was it?

Starboard Tack is standing by this, by the way:

Ignore them. They neither help nor hinder

They are irrelevant and it is their irrelevance that both pisses them off and motivates them. They have no substance and seek to feed off those who do. Responding to their mockery and theophobia only encourages them.
If you leave crumbs on the lunch room counter, the vermin will come to feed. Keep it clean and they will crawl back to the dark corners to fester and eventually consume each other.

Take comfort in the knowledge that most of us, including atheists, are praying in our own ways for those who are suffering. And we don't care if some choose to pray to a deity. It's the thought that counts.

Though, and this will make you laugh if you don't cry, he has just said in a PM to me:

"Where and why did you think I was referring to fellow DUers or a particular group? "

Oh, of course, when that was a reply to your "and it doesn't help that people need to mock the religious beliefs of those praying for victims", Starboard Tack thought you were talking about people entirely unconnected to DU! Yes, that makes a lot of sense, doesn't it, everyone?

Here's the offensive post, for everyone else:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1225582#post7

[hrmjustin]

203. And i asked him note to do that again.

Your right I shoukd have caught it last night but did not.

[el_bryanto]

205. Hey - it's a call out

Isn't it?

Fortunately DUs Anti Theists never use broad brush arguments in their forum or in the religion forum.

Bryant

[muriel_volestrangler]

207. Calling DUers 'vermin' goes beyond a call out

It's practically hate speech. As I pointed out by noting the UN official's opinion of calling migrants 'cockroaches'. It is on a par with that.

If anti-theists have called a group of DUers 'vermin', or the equivalent, then it should have been hidden. Unfortunately, the alert for which I served on a jury didn't point out the hate speech (it just said the post was 'meta', which is against the SoP of that group), and it survived 3-4.

[el_bryanto]

209. Ah - I mean you are calling out HRMJustin

Anti Theists do call believers deluded, dishonest, and thoughtless - including DU believers.

Bryant

[muriel_volestrangler]

211. A reply is not a 'call out'

I can't reply to him in the thread the insults were in, because he locked it shortly after I replied to the insults.

Being 'deluded, dishonest, and thoughtless' still classifies people as human. Not as vermin.

[el_bryanto]

212. So you are fine with broadbrush attacks

So long as they don't compare them to vermin or sub-humans - good to know.

I personally believe that broadbrush attacks are pretty lousy all the time, but part of growing up is accepting that other people have different beliefs and ideals than you do.

[muriel_volestrangler]

215. You're assuming a lot there

I am saying that calling people 'vermin' is far worse than calling them 'deluded', 'dishonest' or 'thoughtless'. A broadbrush attack on believers as 'dishonest' would seem wrong to me too, but definitely not as bad as calling people 'vermin'. 'Thoughtless' is criticism, that can be aimed at anyone, or any group, for their behaviour in the light of how much thought they have put into things. 'Deluded' hurts some people; it means 'fooled' (literally, they're the butt of someone's game), and we don't like being told we have been made fools of.

[el_bryanto]

182. I've been in the religion group

I quit because believer bashing was the name of the game - for every believer in that group there are 4-5 anti-theists laying into them.

But I do notice that many anti-theists have a persecution complex.

Bryant

[PoutrageFatigue]

184. I think you have that precisely backwards...

...And it's pronounced 'ATHEIST' not "Anti-theist"...

"But I do notice that many anti-theists have a persecution complex" - I wonder why that might be? Historical fact maybe?

[el_bryanto]

188. Atheists and Anti-Theists are two overlapping groups

Some Atheists are Anti-Theists but not all Atheists are.

I admit I quit quite a while back - got tired of Anti-Theists telling me that believers are dishonest or thoughtless - or telling me that religion kills kids. Wears you down after a while.

Bryant

[Logical]

218. Why not slaughter a chicken? Drink its blood? Same result! nt

[el_bryanto]

219. Or I could just religiously attack believers as a knee jerk reaction

That might not please God, but it would pacify others.

Bryant

[Logical]

220. You are insulting religions that kill animals? Do you know much about different religions? nt

[Zorra]

200. Recommend. nt

[Logical]

217. If god needs prayers to help Nepal then god can fuck off.....

I donated $50 through amazon.com this morning.

Prayer does nothing except make the prayer feel better!