General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThis message was self-deleted by its author
This message was self-deleted by its author (G_j) on Wed Apr 29, 2015, 09:46 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)applegrove
(118,462 posts)Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)EvolveOrConvolve
(6,452 posts)he'll take the time to listen to prayers from Americans but won't do a damn thing to prevent the earthquake in the first place. If God's omnipotent, then he's a cruel bastard.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)What kind of a sociopath of a deity who supposedly has the power to intervene would cause or not prevent this kind of death, destruction, and suffering?
The god of monotheism is a sick, twisted, cruel being (oh, yeah, and also so "loving" . Glad I don't believe in it.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)But there is a time and place for everything and right now a group of our DU friends want to have a nice OP giving wonderful thought and prayers to Nepal. I don't see anything wrong with it considering we have thousands of OPs to read or even make our own. What happened to respecting differences in everyone? It doesn't just work with those we agree with.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)and solicit help from the same entity that presumably caused the carnage in the first place. Talk about an abusive relationship.
As you can see, it strikes a lot of us as inappropriate to post this here on DU. People can of course pray if they want to, but jeez, religion should be kept to oneself. This isn't an evangelical kind of board.
el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)Much more direct and pointed than this. Certainly I find it offensive and inappropriate for people to post those kinds of attacks; but they keep doing it. So either the Mods need to shuffle all of these types of posts off to the appropriate venue (which I would be fine with) - or we just need to get used to the fact that we will see posts we feel are inappropriate.
Bryant
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)I guess the OP was just meant as a simple thread.
EvolveOrConvolve
(6,452 posts)Let's play a hypothetical exercise: say you have knowledge that there are serious mechanical problems with the brakes on a vehicle that is soon to be driven by four young college students on a camping trip in a mountainous region. And let's say that you withheld that information and the brakes gave out on a high altitude hairpin turn causing the vehicle to plummet several hundred feet into a ravine, killing all four kids.
The parents of the dead college kids are obviously upset to find that you could have prevented their deaths. Do you think they'll be assuaged by "yeoman6987 works in mysterious ways"? Or, would they sue your pants off for the obvious malicious nature of your actions (or lack of actions)?
mr blur
(7,753 posts)Otherwise humanity is doomed.
alarimer
(16,245 posts)I prefer to see this as more evidence of a lack of god(s) than anything else.
so fuck god.
phil89
(1,043 posts)It's not up to us to question? That's just offensive. Is that seriously a good way to live life? It's our moral duty to question everything.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)Been kind of quiet on Earth for a bit...watch me move these tectonic plates a little LOL
Oktober
(1,488 posts)PassingFair
(22,434 posts)So praying to it won't help either way.
Sam Harris lays this out pretty succinctly. Check it out.
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)God does not work in mysterious ways, when it comes to human suffering. God does not increase or decrease the amount of human pain, suffering, etc. that accompanies natural disasters. God does not stop wars. God does not feed the hungry. God does not heal the sick. People do those things, not God. Pray if you want to, but sending money is the only way to have any real impact.
bananas
(27,509 posts)erroltiozon
(1 post)Amen #prayfornepal
Let's help our brothers and sisters in Nepal through this campaign:
http://teespring.com/letsprayfornepal
Ron Obvious
(6,261 posts)I think they might need real help instead.
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)And that's what's important.
I'm sure governments and NGO's like Drs without borders and the international Red Cross and red crescent will help.
I actually let out a cynical "ha" when I saw the hashtag and idea that someone setup a gofundme account.
Can't we just say "that's a shame" and get on with it.
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)used the social media to shame all of us who had not posted about Nepal. Because it's important to take a moment out of playing Candy Crush to do that.
I call it Slacktivism. Someone wants to have a sweet little article written about how "heroic" he/she was in setting up a GoFundMe or creating a unique "hashtag." (which my dad still refers to as "pound sign," and I love him for it)
The rest of us? We feel bad, possibly donate to funds that are available 24/7 and HAVE BEEN FOR YEARS for just this sort of thing (see: Red Cross, World Vision, etc.) and move on.
I wait with breath held for Bono/Bruce Springsteen/Heidi Klum/insert name of other celebrity looking to bring attention to him/herself to announce a "televised benefit concert for the 'People of Nepal'"
G_j
(40,366 posts)(FYI)
By Jesse Drucker
The Star-Ledger
For millions of his fans, Bruce Springsteen's music has been a gift. He sings about regular people with real-life troubles, with lyrics that speak to the average guy.
But to dozens of real people living in Monmouth County -- people like waitress Toni Howard of Long Branch and her husband, John, a wallpaper hanger and painter -- Springsteen's gifts have gone beyond his inspirational songs. A gift from "The Boss" meant a new heating system for their home.
Since 1989, Springsteen has anonymously donated hundreds of thousands of dollars to low-income people for home repairs throughout Monmouth County.
A little-known charity called The Foundation, which lists Springsteen as its president and sole benefactor, has donated at least $350,845 to dozens of households since 1995, according to Internal Revenue Service records.
---
"We've always kept a pretty low profile," said McDuffie, who has run the charity throughout its 11-year existence. "The problem with putting something like this in the paper is then you get the greedy, not the needy. The way you have to handle this type of an organization is very quietly. You don't want to get Mrs. Miller and then the next thing you have her brother and her sister. The more low-key you can keep it, the better."
Over his career, Springsteen has offered many acts of charity, including benefit concerts for Vietnam veterans and food banks, and contributions to a variety of causes from his other charity, The Thrill Hill Foundation. But he has consistently shied away from publicity.
..more..
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)I have a beef with hashtagging (or pound-signing, as my 70-year-old dad says). If Bruce Springsteen is all you have carried away from my post, you missed the point.
G_j
(40,366 posts)just pointing out that Springsteen has always kept the majority his charity work a secret. You're the one who brought him up.
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)You chose to focus on one name. That's not getting what I'm saying. Thank you.
LostOne4Ever
(9,286 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)so after we were done with that, and got some food in (which many of the victims cannot do at the moment) we kicked 20 bucks to the International Red Cross, and then I sat down to compile a list of charities.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026572898
I even went ahead and posted it here in full, without fancy formatting. As I told my hubby, assuming we survived the event, if we were there, I would be hard pressed to put the camera down and not rush to the local red cross and volunteer my services.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I don't think the one denies the other.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)Came here to hyjack this for your own reasons. Start your own OP if you don't like this one and allow us this one nice OP. Now let me get back to praying.
Ron Obvious
(6,261 posts)Spell it out for me. What will this accomplish?
I'm not hijacking anything. You seem very defensive.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)If people can I hope they give to relief organizations.
EvolveOrConvolve
(6,452 posts)http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=content.view&cpid=1888#.VT02yWPkwyo
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)EvolveOrConvolve
(6,452 posts)The OP asked for prayer only.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)EvolveOrConvolve
(6,452 posts)I replied to the OP.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)EvolveOrConvolve
(6,452 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)EvolveOrConvolve
(6,452 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)EvolveOrConvolve
(6,452 posts)(many of them religious based groups). Prayer is good at making the pray-er feel better but does little for the pray-ee.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)EvolveOrConvolve
(6,452 posts)And none for the OP. Which one contained information that might actually be useful to the Nepalese people?
pintobean
(18,101 posts)asking other people of faith to pray. It isn't hurting anything. But, some people have to come into the thread to play 'I'm superior' and stink the place up. No one was knocking your lack of faith. Why the need to insult the faithful? Is it an attempt to convert, or just 'look at me' shit?
If you really just wanted to get helpful links out, an OP of your own would have accomplished more.
EvolveOrConvolve
(6,452 posts)When people think praying helps and don't anything else beyond their useless supplication, then I think urging people of faith to pray has the possibility of hurting the fundraising needed to assist the people of Nepal.
If I do something to actually help Nepal, and the OP only offers up prayer, then yep I consider myself to have the superior position.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)Other than governments, religious organizations will be doing the most, as usual.
EvolveOrConvolve
(6,452 posts)In fact, my links point to several religious groups that are doing something useless in Nepal.
My point was more about the meaningless gesture of prayer and how some to think it abrogates them from their responsibility to actually do something.
rug
(82,333 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"When people think praying helps and don't anything else beyond their useless supplication..."
I like to pretend I have absolute knowledge of all relevant actions taken by other people too. As long as we admit it's merely pretense...
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)G_j
(40,366 posts)But I posted it for those who might be interested. Apparently, that pushes some buttons. I'm not sure what to think of prayer. Certainly thinking compassionate thoughts about someone is probably better than arguing with people on the internet.
In theory, a prayer could take all but a few seconds. It's a thought. No reason that should prevent anyone from doing anything else.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)about how faithy they are without fear of being ridiculed. This is not that place.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)Who's bragging, Mr. Stupidity?
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)They are wearing their faith on their sleeves, exactly as their alleged god told them not to.
Also the posted SOP of interfaith has, at this point, nothing to do with how that forum is run. But you know that.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)I would suggest the hide thread option, before you melt. I don't think your lectures and reprimands are going to have any affect on the faithful.
Eta - you know Beano fights gas, right?
truebrit71
(20,805 posts)...in fact, probably more so, as it may jolt people enough to do something actually useful and donate...
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)rug
(82,333 posts)Instead, you pissed on a thread and, then, finally posted a link.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)a turd in the punchbowl.
rug
(82,333 posts)truebrit71
(20,805 posts)....
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)rug
(82,333 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)The one doesn't deny the other.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)A kick would be appreciated.
EvolveOrConvolve
(6,452 posts)WillyT
(72,631 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Yorktown
(2,884 posts)Cash works. Not prayers.
octoberlib
(14,971 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
rug
(82,333 posts)A HERETIC I AM
(24,360 posts)rug
(82,333 posts)A HERETIC I AM
(24,360 posts)rug
(82,333 posts)A HERETIC I AM
(24,360 posts)It's my understanding you're an attorney. Or played one on TV. Or stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Or read the word "Attorney" in a comic book somewhere.
If you discern the statement "how sad" as me being put "over the edge", then I would submit your perceptive abilities need work.
A LOT of work.
Huh. Interesting. I'm beginning to see, now.
Carry on.
rug
(82,333 posts)It's my understanding you're an atheist. Or played one on TV. Or stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Or read the word "atheist" next to a cartoon somewhere on the internet.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)better positioned to aid at this time.
I sent them some money anyway though.
http://www.mercycorps.org/
Four out of four star rating.
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)Hell must be freezing over.
Oh wait, there is no hell. Or heaven above us.
just because...
A HERETIC I AM
(24,360 posts)Codeine
(25,586 posts)#uselessplattitudesdonothing #theydontevenshareyourmythology
truebrit71
(20,805 posts)X 100000000000
Your prayers and your hashtags mean precisely squat to those affected.
Want to help? Donate. You know, something actually fucking useful...
MFrohike
(1,980 posts)I note that all the people whining about your OP are busy posting instead of following their own advice and actually doing something. I guess it's easier to tout your cool kid credentials than to not flaunt one's own hypocrisy.
Nobody ever said you couldn't pray and give money or time. Only those who can't read what is actually written, as opposed to what they'd like to read, have claimed the opposite.
EvolveOrConvolve
(6,452 posts)Instead, he spent 15 seconds to post a useless hashtag asking DUers to uselessly pray for the Nepalese. It probably made him feel great, but it did fuck all to help the Nepalese.
MFrohike
(1,980 posts)I have a point because you just helped prove it. Thanks for the assist!
rug
(82,333 posts)Be honest, evolve, your interest here is more to promote an anti-anything religious viewpoint than to help Nepal. Feel free to deny it.
truebrit71
(20,805 posts)And you? Here to stir the shit as usual, or do you have something constructive to add for a change?
rug
(82,333 posts)Read the thread. The shit-stirring started when the shit stirrers decided to use this thread and 4,000 dead as a fine opportunity to bash religion and religious believers.
And here you are to jump on in.
You fool no one.
Oh, about your alleged donation.
Way to go, bro!
Response to rug (Reply #143)
Post removed
rug
(82,333 posts)Maybe I'm a simple skeptic but it's easy to post bullshit on the internet.
So, until I see evidence, it's alleged.
truebrit71
(20,805 posts)You show me yours and I'll show you mine.
Or did you just pray instead?
rug
(82,333 posts)truebrit71
(20,805 posts)So did you donate or pray, or did you just come here to stir the shit?
rug
(82,333 posts)Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)It takes a minute or two to reply to a DU thread. How do you know that people aren't also donating, etc. with their other 1,398 minutes in a day? Nobody ever said you couldn't reply to a stupid OP and also give money or time.
MFrohike
(1,980 posts)I don't know. I felt it was fair to tar the whiners with the same brush they used against the OP. Cheers for being the first to notice.
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)We don't get to make assumptions when we don't know people. Not a cool kid. Sorry.
MFrohike
(1,980 posts)It wasn't right of me to generalize, but it was a fair play toward the cool kids. Toward you, it wasn't.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)I've contributed to Nepal. And I not allowed to pray also?
pintobean
(18,101 posts)BuddhaGirl
(3,599 posts)she has asked for prayers and good thoughts for Nepal, in addition to what donations/other help is possible.
What the thread-shitters say is just noise...they knew they would be antagonizing and went ahead anyway
EvolveOrConvolve
(6,452 posts)I've donated to Nepal - am I not allowed to criticize those that think prayer is enough?
(BTW, I don't mind at all if you pray, as long as you're doing something useful as well)
G_j
(40,366 posts)one way or the other.. btw, I didn't catch where anyone stated prayer is enough.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)if people are criticizing prayer?
EvolveOrConvolve
(6,452 posts)First, I dislike those who think praying is enough. It's not. It's worse than doing nothing because it influences others to do nothing.
Second, I dislike the smug arrogance of people who think god will listen to them when they pray, but couldn't be bothered to prevent the earthquake from happening in the first place.
Third, I dislike the egoism involved in performing an act that makes the prayor feel better without actually providing any benefit to the target of the prayer. It belies a certain self-centeredness that is rampant in American culture.
G_j
(40,366 posts)but why be your brother's keeper? Just as one doesn't need someone telling them they need Jesus, they don't need someone berating them for saying a prayer. Either way, it's annoying.
rug
(82,333 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)and I agree mostly with you, but... if people want to pray and donate to a charity, in whichever order, as long as some money goes to the charity... I am cool with it.
Though there are some folks in our society who cannot afford to donate... they tend to be rather poor so giving even two bucks might be troublesome. If they feel better by praying... I can live with that as well.
But mostly I agree with you, that prayer is quite self centered, and really does not help. That said. for accident victims et al, it could. The effect is like that of a placebo, we have some evidence from research (evidence based and all), so I have been known to pray with families.
But if you can afford to spare a couple bucks... give some money to an agency of your choice, and then, if you must, pray.
EvolveOrConvolve
(6,452 posts)But the OP simply posted an exhortation to prayer. If she/he doesn't have the money to donate, that's okay - not everyone has those types of resources. But the OP could have asked for prayer while at the same time putting a couple minutes effort into finding good charities that have boots on the ground doing real good for the people of Nepal. Posting links is free.
rug
(82,333 posts)truebrit71
(20,805 posts)...
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)truebrit71
(20,805 posts)Someone on FB posted this disgusting tweet from a "christian" that said basically that he hoped that none of the 'pagan temples' were rebuilt and they were all converted to christianity...
Meanwhile thousands have died, thousands more are buried or missing, and here we are bickering which is better, donations or wishful thinking...
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)Ugh.
Such airtight logic. Clearly, they should all convert to Christianity because God never harms Christians in any way, shape, or form, as a reward for them believing in the correct religion. Why, they are immune to all earthquakes and other natural disasters, cancer and other diseases, accidents, wars, famine, you name it.
Iggo
(47,534 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Btw we have a prayer circle if you wish to post prayers in there.
http://election.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1225
truebrit71
(20,805 posts)... which actually DOES work....
Just be careful of the scams out there...I saw a post elsewhere that had a list of charities and organizations that were involved that were the most helpful/effective.... I'll see if i can find it and post it here....
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)We just pray. Believers pray because it is a part of our lives.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)How is the weather over there in Old Kathmandu, today?
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Oktober
(1,488 posts)... back to giving cancer to children...
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)Such a "loving" deity.
brooklynite
(94,302 posts)My guess is that they're about the same.....
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)brooklynite
(94,302 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)When I pray I give thanks and praise to God, and ask for forgiveness and strength. I also lift up others in prayer and pray for the needs of others.
I don't believe the divine decides what happens from moment to moment. I do not believe the divine decides who lives or dies or who is healthy or who is sick. We have the laws of nature and chance and probability.
I mainly pray for strength and forgiveness for my sins.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)snooper2
(30,151 posts)because not on your approved list of deities
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)truebrit71
(20,805 posts)The FSM is just as real as all of the other religions that came before it...
Next you'll be saying that mormonism and scientology aren't "real religions" either....
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)truebrit71
(20,805 posts)... no?
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)truebrit71
(20,805 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)truebrit71
(20,805 posts)...
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)upon whether you personally like the post or not.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)You telling others what religions are legitimate or not is exactly what he would want.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)From where I stand, your religion (people coming back from the dead, eating crackers and wine that turn into flesh and blood of said dead person, etc) is just, if not more, absurd and ridiculous as FSM, Mormonism, Scientology...
Just because it doesn't make sense to you, or because you don't understand it, doesn't mean it isn't real and true to someone else.
So much for that equality, tolerance, and acceptance you like to spew so much. At least we all get to see the real you in the daylight now.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)But if you can sleep well knowing that your behavior as a host is hypocritical and intolerant, who am I to judge. I'm sure Jesus approves.
You have a nice day now, ya' hear?
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)Intolerant hypocrites that act one way but preach otherwise fall to the bottom of my list.
You've got plenty of other buddies that don't seem to mind, so I'm sure you're not too disappointed by my rejection.
Again, you have a nice day.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)otherwise I can't really take you seriously.
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)You spend it all on yourself.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Step up.
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)I'd probably get better results praying instead.
Anyway, I'm not a schoolyard tattle-tale. I confront bullies to their face. YMMV.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)If you had the courage of your convictions you would start one now. So it takes some time for a response, big freaking deal.
Put up or haunt me no longer.
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)You have made accusations against me here and you should go tell skinner your concerns. You know what I think of your opinion but if you have serious concerns about me you should bring them to the attention of the owner of this site.
I can do it for you if you like.
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)You got nothing and you can't put it up to the owner.
Just sad.
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)Oktober
(1,488 posts)I think you realize it on some level and it really makes folks itchy...
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)Oktober
(1,488 posts)I am stating my personal belief that in most of the religious population there is a logical core buried deep that can't be beaten all the way to death with myth and fear. Still working on the ratios...
You may have killed yours entirely but I'm an optimist and am playing the odds as I see them.
Hope for you yet...
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)mr blur
(7,753 posts)I mean, you're amusing and all but, really, take you seriously?
You can't even leave in a huff without immediately coming back to point out that if everyone continues to not act the way you want them to then you're going to leave in a huff. Again.
It would be so much easier, wouldn't it, if you could just ban everyone who doesn't act like you want them to? But who has time to be a host of that many groups? And it would get awfully lonely, wouldn't it? Be like being in Interfaith and talking to yourself. But everywhere.
Never mind, soon you'll have 100,000 posts and can start on the next 100,000. Remember, don't be tempted to actually put anything in the body of them or you'll never get there. Anyway, if it's not broken, why fix it, eh?
Oktober
(1,488 posts)Please be specific...
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Oktober
(1,488 posts)I think it sounds optimistic...
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)I think it sounds insulting.
Oktober
(1,488 posts)I still have a tiny bit of hope that the little voice of logic could break through one day... If only for a moment...
Hallelujah!
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Bye!
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)Which isn't surprising considering that tyrannical and dictatorial behavior is an attribute of just about every god humans have ever believed in. Don't believe me? Read the Bible for starters.
Response to hrmjustin (Reply #101)
Post removed
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)find a charity in the list we put together at Reporting San Diego, and cross posted here, without the fancy links though. I really did not feel like getting that fancy linking done here.
Give money. Prayers don't buy medicines, and certainly do not buy tents, They also do not buy building materials needed for the recovery, or the long term therapy.
Oh we already did by the way,.
Prayers in these cases do both jack and shit.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026572898
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)Oktober
(1,488 posts)What a bunch of bullshit... Maybe you can go whole hog and send them some good vibes.
I'm sure they'll really appreciate that....
G_j
(40,366 posts)in the hospital, you would come at them with a bunch of profanity and bad vibes?
Incidentally, the people of Nepal are generally very religious. Buddhists do believe in praying for humanity. Prayers and good thoughts are welcome. But hey, you are obviously superior to all that.
And it is so fucking intellectually dishonest, and insulting to assert that someone taking a moment of prayer cannot donate or offer other assistance. Do you really think people are that stupid? Yea, I guess you do..
Oktober
(1,488 posts)... But if you asked the folks who need it which they prefer, vibes/prayers/nothing vs food/aid/medicine...
Which one do you think they would want? Any energy wasted on such frivolous nonsense could be better spent on actually helping.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)I would offer to you that some studies in evidence based medicine have found prayer to have an actual placebo effect
https://www.mja.com.au/journal/2007/186/10/prayer-medicine-how-much-have-we-learned
Some have found it to have none.
In the environment of a quake on the other side of the world, if the OP gives money to a charity actually doing work on the ground, a prayer will not be wasted effort. Why? Unless you are getting on an actual plane to go help... physically.
It takes just as long as donating money though.
And for religious folks, mind you, I know exactly where I lost mine. it is something else they do.
So vibes, jury is out as to the placebo effect, but money, just make sure you donate to a charity that will actually use money in the field.
G_j
(40,366 posts)one or the other, fine, that's your mental construct. Lots of projection there. I'm finished, thought police are thought police.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)What they could use is clean water, medical supplies, rescue equipment of all sorts, etc.
G_j
(40,366 posts)Wow! I learn something new on DU everyday!
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)G_j
(40,366 posts)or pouring a cup of coffee. It's a few thoughts out of a million. You really want to tell people what to think?
It's obviously doesn't feed or clothe anyone. I don't really consider myself a person of faith. I posted the OP simply as a public service for those who might be interested. It's rather funny how many bitter angry people have showed up. Anyone ever heard of live and let live?
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)and nourishing.
el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)PoutrageFatigue
(416 posts)Especially here in GD....perhaps you should take this up in the Religion group where atheist-bashing is part of the SOP...
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)it is an open group that challenging believers and non-believers is allowed.
PoutrageFatigue
(416 posts)And it is permitted, and in fact encouraged by participation by the hosts...hey wait...aren't you a host of that forum?
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)PoutrageFatigue
(416 posts)muriel_volestrangler
(101,262 posts)in your thread, in the group you host, and to which you replied. Until someone alerted on it nearly a day later and it was pointed out, that is.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Missed the word.
I sent him a note on it.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,262 posts)Starboard Tack is standing by this, by the way:
They are irrelevant and it is their irrelevance that both pisses them off and motivates them. They have no substance and seek to feed off those who do. Responding to their mockery and theophobia only encourages them.
If you leave crumbs on the lunch room counter, the vermin will come to feed. Keep it clean and they will crawl back to the dark corners to fester and eventually consume each other.
Take comfort in the knowledge that most of us, including atheists, are praying in our own ways for those who are suffering. And we don't care if some choose to pray to a deity. It's the thought that counts.
Though, and this will make you laugh if you don't cry, he has just said in a PM to me:
"Where and why did you think I was referring to fellow DUers or a particular group? "
Oh, of course, when that was a reply to your "and it doesn't help that people need to mock the religious beliefs of those praying for victims", Starboard Tack thought you were talking about people entirely unconnected to DU! Yes, that makes a lot of sense, doesn't it, everyone?
Here's the offensive post, for everyone else:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1225582#post7
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Your right I shoukd have caught it last night but did not.
el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)Isn't it?
Fortunately DUs Anti Theists never use broad brush arguments in their forum or in the religion forum.
Bryant
muriel_volestrangler
(101,262 posts)It's practically hate speech. As I pointed out by noting the UN official's opinion of calling migrants 'cockroaches'. It is on a par with that.
If anti-theists have called a group of DUers 'vermin', or the equivalent, then it should have been hidden. Unfortunately, the alert for which I served on a jury didn't point out the hate speech (it just said the post was 'meta', which is against the SoP of that group), and it survived 3-4.
el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)Anti Theists do call believers deluded, dishonest, and thoughtless - including DU believers.
Bryant
muriel_volestrangler
(101,262 posts)I can't reply to him in the thread the insults were in, because he locked it shortly after I replied to the insults.
Being 'deluded, dishonest, and thoughtless' still classifies people as human. Not as vermin.
el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)So long as they don't compare them to vermin or sub-humans - good to know.
I personally believe that broadbrush attacks are pretty lousy all the time, but part of growing up is accepting that other people have different beliefs and ideals than you do.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,262 posts)I am saying that calling people 'vermin' is far worse than calling them 'deluded', 'dishonest' or 'thoughtless'. A broadbrush attack on believers as 'dishonest' would seem wrong to me too, but definitely not as bad as calling people 'vermin'. 'Thoughtless' is criticism, that can be aimed at anyone, or any group, for their behaviour in the light of how much thought they have put into things. 'Deluded' hurts some people; it means 'fooled' (literally, they're the butt of someone's game), and we don't like being told we have been made fools of.
el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)I quit because believer bashing was the name of the game - for every believer in that group there are 4-5 anti-theists laying into them.
But I do notice that many anti-theists have a persecution complex.
Bryant
PoutrageFatigue
(416 posts)...And it's pronounced 'ATHEIST' not "Anti-theist"...
"But I do notice that many anti-theists have a persecution complex" - I wonder why that might be? Historical fact maybe?
el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)Some Atheists are Anti-Theists but not all Atheists are.
I admit I quit quite a while back - got tired of Anti-Theists telling me that believers are dishonest or thoughtless - or telling me that religion kills kids. Wears you down after a while.
Bryant
Logical
(22,457 posts)el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)That might not please God, but it would pacify others.
Bryant
Logical
(22,457 posts)Zorra
(27,670 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)I donated $50 through amazon.com this morning.
Prayer does nothing except make the prayer feel better!