Can I ask a Memorial Day favor?

[hootinholler]

I'm a veteran - Cold War submariner.

Can you please remember that this holiday is not to honor veterans, but to honor our brothers who fell in the line of duty.

There's a thing called stolen valor. To most vets that I know, it's a pretty big deal. Speaking for myself, when someone who knows I served thanks me for my service on Memorial Day, I get this little twinge of guilt because we have another day for that in the fall. It's really just a little thing, but if it happens to me, I suspect it happens to others. Especially those who unlike me, actually saw their brother fall or found them afterward.

To me this day is really about the guys who fell on Normandy beaches, who fell in Gettysburg (both sides), who were manning Scorpion, from Concord to Iraq and all those places in between we may never remember.

It's also about those who were treated so shitty, who died at the hands of the VA denying cancer clusters from contaminated base water, denying Agent Orange leaving my brothers to suffer a lingering death, those who froze to death over the many winters because they were homeless, those who die in jail because PTSD landed them there.

The first group I mentioned, there's little we can do. The second group, well we could change that if we can pull together.

[HassleCat]

1. I feel you

Like you, I spent my "brilliant military career" not in any danger, but sitting in an engine room, watching a bunch of dials and gauges that never moved. In fact, I signed up for a technical program to avoid combat, because I knew I would get shot the first day. So, people thanking me for my service makes me think, "OK. I was happy to let somebody else run through the jungle in my place." To me, saying thank you to a veteran is nice, but put your money where your mouth is. Vote for people who will support adequate funding for the VA, an updated GI Bill, etc.

[Recursion]

14. The day I enlisted, my grandfather pulled me aside

And said, "Recursion, make sure you get a job that puts you next to the most expensive piece of equipment the Marine Corps has. They will protect it, and thereby protect you accidentally."

[FlatBaroque]

2. Very important message, needs to be heard

Thanks for enlightening me on this issue.

[pintobean]

3. Agree, and rec

I didn't know you were a bubble head. I was a snipe.

[hootinholler]

6. Hey Brother of the Fish

Nav ET, John Adams

Submarines Once!

[Recursion]

11. Thanks for giving us a ride all the time, squids... (nt)

[hootinholler]

17. Anytime, Jarhead n/t

[padfun]

22. Thanks for carrying our bags for us.

Seriously, I have a lot of respect for our Marine brothers.

Sonar Tech
padfun

[pintobean]

13. And a twidget.

I was a BT on a tender. Never been aboard a sub, but we'd had some tied alongside for service in Diego Garcia.

[hootinholler]

16. Oh I shouldn't have assumed you're qualified

And this is no shit, I have a seabag in storage with some poopie suits and uniforms that still smells of submarine after 30 years.

[Mbrow]

30. K & R on the OP ED

I severed on the Pintado and the Skipjack, about ten years worth. A Gang.

Submariners Twice!

[Half-Century Man]

20. Data Systems Tech aboard the USS Eisenhower

Back when there were DS's.

I feel very uncomfortable every time someone thanks me for my service. I was a guy who traded time for education and adventure (kinda got stiffed on the adventure part).
Memorial Day is to honor the fallen and wounded. I left service upright and intact (except for extracted wisdom teeth). Memorial day isn't my day.

[el_bryanto]

4. Thanks for the reminder - it is easy to forget.

And you are right there is a lot more we should be doing.

Bryant

[Cooley Hurd]

5. Recommended!

Excellent post and advice. Thank you!

[TNNurse]

7. Your point is excellent.

It is also NOT about car or mattress sales, about driving after drinking , or picnics, BBQs or any other gathering that is not a Memorial.

We are really heartless, selfish and not very well educated. Except for the good people on this site.

[LoisB]

53. Amen!

[Wilms]

8. A D-Day veteran taught me the same thing.

He said, "I'm alive". And he wasn't smiling when he said it.

[Recursion]

9. Thank you. I try not to go off on people on facebook but it bugs me

It's not for me, it's for the ones who didn't come home.

Actually it used to be for anyone and everyone we've lost.

[fadedrose]

10. Thank you for caring about them

even if you didn't die. Your thoughts about the purpose of Memorial Day belong here, and make us all more sensitive to their sacrifice for us.

[MerryBlooms]

12. rec & kick

[Martin Eden]

15. Honor the Fallen by demanding an end to senseless wars

It's tragic enough when our citizens in uniform give their lives in a just cause to defend our country, but it makes my blood boil when they are killed or maimed for life serving the interests of corporate profit or the ambitions of lying politicians.

It is an essential duty of citizenship to hold the lying politicians accountable and to elect representatives who will not needlessly sacrifice the lives of those who serve. The American people need to learn that sometimes the best way to support our troops is to stand up and oppose a war they are being sent to fight.

[7962]

18. Yes, people do confuse Memorial day & Veterans day quite often.

And the "Stolen Valor" IS a very big deal. Whenever I tell people that I did serve 10 yrs I always add the fact that I never saw any combat. Certainly it takes everyone to complete a mission; I've been told it takes 10 behind the lines to support every 1 on the front. But I hate when people try to take credit for being under fire. We all served, but some served under fire.

It really shouldnt be that hard for people to get; it IS called "Memorial Day" and everyone knows what a memorial is

[pasto76]

57. Stolen valor is bullshit, but its a bullshit thing to waste time and energy on

dude if HALF the fucking 'stolen valor' vids and comments were about a 22% suicide rate, homelessness sexual assault and harrassment - we would actually make progress on those fronts. Stolen valor isnt about real soldiers. Then who is it for? For the people - again usually not veterans! - making a big deal about it. Fuck'em. Our troops need, and actually deserve this attention and effort.

So is that shithead who wears an Eagle Globe Anchor on his hardhat at work stolen valor? I asked him why do you wear that. Oh, my cousin/aunt/uncle gave it to me. I stared right at him and replied 'you wear that because you want people to think you were in the marines'

yeah. By the end of the week it had 'fallen / got knocked off'. Most of the dudes out there wearing ACU pants at work and around town want you to think they were in the Army. Stolen Valor?

How bout this dude at work that just couldnt get over me being his boss. 'you dont know what I did in the military, I dont talk about it'

NEVERMIND I'd already seen his background check and resume'!

Stolen Valor?

People DONT CARE about anyone dressing like us. They dont even know what the shit on our uniform means. But this "stolen valor' bullshit makes them feel good cause they can make a facebook page(america!) and post a tough guy quote (nevermind they coundt find the time to serve themselves!)

To the OP - I dig from where you are coming. But go ahead and wear some jacked up uniform, maybe cheat some giant corporation out of a few (and I mean 10% tops) bucks. Big deal, compared to what weighs heavy on us this weekend right?!

I challenge everyone in this thread to turn it off. Who cares about stolen valor. Its even a stupid name to begin with. Turn it back on for something worthwhile - PTSD, Suicide awareness and prevention. SHARP. Soemthing that puts attention back on the TROOPS.

I have my own list of names to remember this weekend. Combat, suicide accidental and natural. I was in Iraq in 2003 when it was absolutely wild and crazy. Beer and reflection is on the menu. Guess how much time Im giving to stolen valor? not a fucking second.

SGT P
3-157 FA HIMARS

[hootinholler]

59. I hear you

I wish there was a better phrase to describe what I mean. Being lifted above the role I played.

I ain't worried much at all about the jackasses out there. They seem to find their own just reward eventually.

[7962]

62. Karma

[7962]

61. Its not "bullshit" its fraud. And people shouldnt get away with it.

And people DO care. I never see anyone defending anyone caught doing it. Who would?
I served with people who DID serve in combat and a few who died. One member of my extended family died in combat.
Nobody should ride on their sacrifice. Call it stolen valor or whatever, its wrong.
Certainly YOU dont have to give a rats ass about it, but most folks think fraudsters should be punished.
As for who its for, the only people i've ever seen on videos calling someone out on it were veterans themselves. Because as you said, most civilians DONT know what they're seeing when they see a ribbon or patch.

Funny you mention the guy working for you; I've always been suspicious of the "'you dont know what I did in the military, I dont talk about it' guys myself.

[oldandhappy]

19. Thank you. I am guilty!

Down underneath stuff in my brain I know this, but I had sort of stopped differentiating. I will be careful, and grateful.

[littlewolf]

21. Rec and kicked

20 years 14 days …
I was a CT … (comms Tech)
Stolen Valor is a huge thing .. it really gets me hot.
more then a few of my friends didn't make it home.

in your first group - Normandy, Gettysburg, Scorpion, and Thresher (my add)
and all the other boats that are on eternal patrol.
Concord - Iraq - your right there is little we can do but remember and honor
them.

the 2nd group we can change it.

[PeaceNikki]

23. Agreed. I also use it to honor my grandfather. We was a WWII vet who died on Memorial Day

He bravely enlisted when he was 30. He didn't die in combat, but lived the rest of his life with terrible nightmares and PTSD.

[jwirr]

24. So right that is why we have the ceremonies at the cemeteries. We also need to remember that

all veterans did not necessarily die in combat. My uncle was in the chemical warfare unit - he died many years later of cancer. A friend died years after Vietnam from Agent orange. IMO they also deserve honor.

[BlueJazz]

25. Wonderful and informative post.

[Orsino]

26. I don't mind the confusion.

The military-industrial complex has kept Americans largely ignorant of any nuances. They see uniforms on the TV, they salute reflexively, by design.

Most observances are full of apologists for our very bad, terrible, no-good wars. They keep us chanting to prevent our actually thinking about the true costs and preventability of war.

[smokey nj]

27. Well said, hoot.

[hootinholler]

35. Thanks for the kind words. n/t

[JayhawkSD]

28. For me, especially those "on eternal patrol."

The men who sailed from Pear Harbor in particular, but from other ports as well, in ships that went below the surface in pursuit of the enemy and never again saw the light of day, listed merely as "unreported" when they never came home.

[Smarmie Doofus]

29. Memorial Day: " I see DEAD people."

And if I see anyone else I'm going to ask "What the FUCK are you doing here."

It's not the Fourth of July and it's not Armed Forces Day and it's not Veterans' Day ( excuse me: Armistice Day.)

[sarge43]

31. And our sisters

http://userpages.aug.com/captbarb/lives.html

She too was there on St Crispin's Day
And none can say her nay.

[RoccoR5955]

32. I'll go one further.

Honor the dead, and do my best to see that we do not ever go to war again!
It's past time to stop the killing, and start the talking, so honor those who sacrificed, and vow to work to never let it happen again.

[Octafish]

33. Excellent point.

Must add: I believe hootinholler has worked toward that very goal of true peace since I remember reading his name on DU.

[hootinholler]

34. Thank you for the kind words, Der Fishie

Unfortunately this year whirled peas is too much to hope for.

[WillyT]

36. K & R !!!

[MADem]

37. I was prepared to hate this thread...but RIGHT ON!!!!!!!

I thought, oh, no--another maudlin "snatched from FACEBOOK" gif or poster with some teary blah-blah on it...but I was wrong!!!!

When people want to remember my service on Memorial Day, I say "Shit--I'm not dead! This day isn't for people like me, it's for the crew that's six feet under!" I say it in a friendly way, but I do make the point. Always have.

And you're right about VA--it's always a good time to petition one's congressman or senator to pay closer heed to those issues. I live in an area where it isn't an issue (I have a couple of relatives who have gotten great care from the VA--I'm on TRICARE myself) but I know that it is still substandard in some places and that needs to change.

[hootinholler]

45. Books, covers, eh? LOL

Thank you, I generally stay off facebook over memorial day.

It's not just VA medical that's fucked.

[MADem]

47. I agree that it's not just VA medical--they've got other issues of an institutional

bent that need fixing. Their compensation evaluation, for example, is unwieldy and ponderous--and designed to be thus because people who need the help most give up on the process, and don't get it.

I have a good friend who works with people helping process applications--he's done a lot of good for dozens and dozens, really more like hundreds, of people down the years.

[McKim]

38. My Brother in Law Died for a Lie in Vietnam in 1967

Today I remember my brother in law who died in Vietnam in 1967. We have been active in the Peace Movement ever since, especially lately since 2000 against the wars in the Middle East. Work for Peace. Push back against the MIC and the PNAC.

[BrotherIvan]

39. Awesome post

Thanks for informing us because I did not know this.

[appalachiablue]

40. Thanks for the excellent post. Well said.

[Skittles]

41. thank you hootinholler

Last edited Fri May 22, 2015, 07:49 PM - Edit history (1)

hey, my dad's cousin was on the Scorpion

[hootinholler]

43. This is the anniversary of the failure to surface.

I hope your cousin wasn't on her then in 1968.

Now 99 Brothers of the Dolphin on eternal patrol.

[Thespian2]

42. Thank you

for reminding us all of the importance of Memorial Day...

[ailsagirl]

44. Thank you for pointing this out

[sabrina 1]

46. Thank you, hootinholler. Thanks for the reminder what Memorial Day is really about!

[840high]

48. ....

[daleanime]

49. K&R.....

[valerief]

50. Good point. When do we honor the innocent civilians murdered by war? nt

[hootinholler]

54. Great question!

I wish I knew.

[Duckhunter935]

51. You put that very well, thanks

[tularetom]

52. Don't thank me, I got more out of my service than my country ever did

What did I get? I got several thousand dollars over the course of my higher education, and I got to buy my first home at a subsidized interest rate with no money down.

What did I do to earn this? Basically jack shit. I learned a very dubious skill that has virtually no practical use in civilian life and spent a lot of time perfecting it.

To be honest, I sometimes feel like shit on Memorial Day, because every other male member of my family served in wartime and put their ass on the line and I didn't.

[sarge43]

66. All that may be asked of any service member

Did they honorably do their duty as it was given to them to do. Everything else is luck of the draw.

All we can do Monday is remember those who paid the ultimate price and hope they have the peace denied them in this life.

CAVU. brothers and sisters

[bvf]

55. If only people stopped for a second

to consider the meaning of the word "memorial."

Great post, thanks.

[Mnpaul]

56. I wouldn't take it that way

People might say that to you knowing that you may have lost friends in battle. I wouldn't try to read too much into it. It's not stolen valor. You can remind them to honor those who lost their lives just as you did in this post.

[lovemydog]

58. Great thread.

[rhett o rick]

60. You made a good point. I will honor those fallen. nm

[MannyGoldstein]

63. "that from these honored dead we take increased devotion"

"Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth, upon this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived, and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting-place for those who here gave their lives, that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate, we can not consecrate – we can not hallow – this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here.

It is for us, the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here, have, thus far, so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us – that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they here gave the last full measure of devotion – that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain – that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom – and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."

[Iwillnevergiveup]

64. Why yes, hoot

you certainly may ask this favor, and I appreciate your doing so.

[Warren DeMontague]

65. Good Reminder.

Thanks.