My family are hunters. I'd like to talk to you about hunting and what I know about hunting

[LynneSin]

First, unless you are 100% vegan do not dare judge about hunting. I've seen the conditions of Corporate Farming and it is disgusting to say the least. What NORMAL everyday law abiding hunters do is far better than what you will find on the corporate farms that produce meat sold at most groceries stores.

What that dentist did absolutely disgusts me. In fact most of these people who travel to Africa for their big game trophy hunting absolutely disgusts me. I cannot see why anyone would want to kill an endangered animal just for the sake of a trophy to hang on the wall of some rare, beautiful exotic creature. It serves no purpose other that to boost one's low self-esteem over things like bank account size or male appendage parts.

But I want you to know that this is not true for most hunters. I grew up in rural Pennsylvania and was raised in a family where the men (and some women although not my mother or myself) enjoyed hunting. In fact several members of my family even worked for the PA State Game Commission at some time or another (ages ago). I grew up respecting mother nature and the animals around me. I learned about the rules and that if one was to engage in hunting, trapping or fishing that the rules were created to ensure that everyone could enjoy in the sport for centuries to come without ever seeing harm to the overall population of these common species in our state. My family only engaged in hunting of animals they could actually USE and most respectable hunters do the same thing. Native Americans would use almost 99.9% of the animals they hunted and kill. Now I don't think my family comes that close to using that much of the animal but I know that we will butcher as much of the animal that we can to be used throughout the year. One Deer can provide plenty of steaks, burgers, sausage and other meats that can last throughout the winter. Sure my family could hunt bear but we tried bear meat and didn't like it so no one bothered to to hunt it for that reason alone. Smart hunters respect that if it is an animal they cannot use then why hunt it? Sure a nice trophy of a large deer rack is nice but if you aren't going to use the rest of the deer then it's a waste.

Respectful hunter obey the laws and find no need for such crazy exotic hunts. I know for one of my closest family members for him sometimes it's more for him sitting outside in nature and many years he doesn't come home with anything but just enjoys being out there looking.

And smart hunters also know this - they do not need automatic weapons to kill their prey. They also do not need to use illegal methods or canned hunts. And finally when they are done hunting they know the best place for their hunting rifles are someplace under lock and key where they are safe and cannot cause any harm to young curious children.

I hope that you understand that not all hunters out there are like this psychopath dentist from Minnesota or others that crave the attention of these exotic big game kills. Most would be happy just catching a White tail deer that they can use for meat for the winter months or perhaps a nice plump turkey for Thanksgiving dinner.

[Go Vols]

1. K&R

[gwheezie]

2. I'm vegan but agree with you

I believe responsible hunting is the most humane way to obtain meat if you eat meat. The animal lives as nature intended until the moment it is killed. Much more humane than factory farms.

[LynneSin]

5. With the changes in labeling country of orgin for the meat sold in stores

I'd almost want to get all of my meat that way. At least from a hunter I would know exact where the meat came from.

Although the down side, where my family use to hunt is currently being destroyed thanks to former Governor Tom Corbett and the Fracking industry. So who knows.

But once they stop labeling country of orgin on meats I will probably start going to local butchers for my food and seafood vendors for seafood.

[gwheezie]

16. I evolved

I used to bow hunt and gradually over the years I raised beef and goats for meat. I've always had chickens. I had an epiphany one day when one of my nanny goats clearly spoke to me about her grief that she lost all her babies. She was my beloved pet and is buried with one of her sons in a patch of weeds, a fine burial for a good goat. People find their own path. I have no moral judgement about meat eaters. I do think we are very disconnected from our food.

[AtheistCrusader]

32. I hunt precisely because of that connection.

If I can't look a deer in the eyes and still put it on my plate, I sure as hell can't outsource it to some closed-door abattoir where my breakfast sausage gets to my plate by way of a pig being hung by a hook through the leg, throat slashed, bleeding out for who knows how long...

If I can't do it myself, and if I can't do it without the animal needlessly suffering, then fuck it, salads for me, forever.

Probably not a bad idea anyway.

[Enthusiast]

65. Well said!

[bananas]

71. Well said, one more step to go - drop the "If"...

Eventually, you will change this:

"If I can't look a deer in the eyes and still put it on my plate..."

to this:

"I can't look a deer in the eyes and still put it on my plate..."

Take your time, I'm not judging you, I'm making a prediction: eventually old age will take its toll,
and you won't be able to hunt for yourself ...

I'm pragmatic, start learning about your options now: nutritional yeast, etc ...

[marble falls]

59. We are way too separated from our food. Killing is part and parcel to it. We won't....

kill it and we won't eat it until it is unrecognizable: de-faced and de-limbed.

I used hunt and I won't raise animals to eat. But while I've cut back by more than half I do eat meat because we need a certain amount of nutrition from animal sources.

Its really caused me much ethical turmoil in my last few years.

[AtheistCrusader]

66. +1

I haven't tried to go vegetarian at all, but like trading out incandescent with LED's, I'm definitely moving in the conservation direction. I go entire meals without any meat at all, where that just wasn't even an option, was totally unthinkable 5-10 years ago. I'm ok with it now.

Sometimes I'll even do the boca burger option, it's fine. I like the texture. Doesn't feel so much like taking the lesser option, as it does taking a different, equal, and good in it's own right option.

I can see the possibility of a natural transition off meat in my future.


On the ethical side, you know what the gut-punching check was that made me halt and re-evaluate? I watched BlackFish. Then I started thinking about OTHER intelligent species in our zoos, treated just as badly. Then I started thinking about industrial food production...

Yeah. Turmoil is a good word.

[marble falls]

68. Black Fish and that butchering of that young giraffe at that zoo in Begium really added....

to my dilemma.

I quit going to rodeos after watching with my very young children the death by broken neck of a bronco, and I won't go to "performing" animal shows anymore at all, I've added circuses to the list and while I applaud Ringling for cutting elephants from their show: it won't happen for four more years. Zoo's are more and more likely to be put on that list soon. Bringing animals out of their surroundings may well help to keep them from being extinct while making them more likely to be x'ed out of their natural surroundings.

Turmoil describes it. Ethical eating presents all sorts of pitfalls and dead ends. The industrialization of food is a big part of it.

[bvar22]

100. You and your family have permission to hunt on our land anytime during season you choose.

I presume you are talking about deer or game birds.
You don't have to hunt very hard.
If you leave the front door open,
the deer will come in, sit on the couch, and watch TV with you.

[paleotn]

121. That's just like our place....

...if we'd let them, they'd move in and take over. But come November they're hard to find. Smart deer.

[Blue_In_AK]

143. Your deer are like our moose.

They're EVERYWHERE. (And also very delicious. We don't hunt, but my brother does.).

[roguevalley]

101. animals break my back

Nothing is exempt anymore. It all has costs. The cubs of Cecil will be killed by the next pride leader if they aren't grown up yet and the lionesses though they will hate it will allow it. They will then breed new cubs for the new leader. he wasn't the only one killed by those cowardly fuckers.

I have a neighbor across the street who went to Africa and shot 37 animals with his high power pecker sticks. Frankly, I wish he had gotten clawed to death by a leopard. I can't even look at his fat sorry fucker face anymore.

Hunting big game animals seldom means just one. This fucker got 37 on one trip.

I live in the middle of trophy hunting territory. People stealing eggs from eagle nests, shooting anything that moves and overfishing. I'm sick of it. If you want to hunt, go out there bare handed. Don't take your high powered bullshit and all your bow and gun scopes and call yourself a hunter. What the hell about hunting does this kind of bullshit entail? I have seen fishermen shoot sows with cubs who didn't do anything to earn it who crawled off to die over the course of a couple of days leaving their small cubs to fend for themselves. One of the cubs was shot in the foot cutting his survival chances in half.

You can't just say farmed animals killed are bad and hunting is different. Dead animals are dead animals and killing them from a distance with high powered weapons, then pretending you are a 'hunter' is for me bullshit. I had to edit this because of the anger this brings to me. I loathe hunting and no one can change me. I loathe hunting season around here and mourning farmed chickens doesn't make this one wit better.

[FourScore]

106. I don't think you understood the OP, but thanks for sharing your righteous outrage. n/t

[roguevalley]

107. I edited it three times. I get

Her point. I also gave mine. It's easy but you don't live in trophy country to have your opinions and fine. But I see the carnage all the time and my opinion is real. Hunt if you want but I won't respect it. Farmed or hunted it is still powerless animals dying.

IMHO

[FourScore]

109. You're basically saying all hunting is trophy hunting...

And you don't have a problem with factory farms. That's just so twisted, I don't even know where to start.

Like the OP says, unless your a vegan, you got nothin' to be outraged about, 'cause meat eaters are eating "powerless animals" every day.

Such blind outrage is...well, blind. And deaf.

IMHO

[roguevalley]

111. I didn't say either. what a load that you believe I dont abhore factory farms. bite me about the

Factory farms. Those are your words. Twisted much? And I live in bear country. Don't lecture me about trophy hunting either.

[FourScore]

112. I re-read your post ande it doesn't say factory farming is okay. My bad. But you are

equating it to the kind of hunting the OP is describing,. THAT is twisted.

Also, I can't keep up with all your edits...

I will say, some of what you describe that you have "seen" sounds awful. I don't know a single hunter who acts that way. All of the ones I know love nature.

[LynneSin]

114. I think you and I have come from two different parts of the country

which is why our opinions differ and I do respect that. Please realize that part of my upbringing comes from family members who have worked for the PA State Game Commission so I have seen only the positive aspects of hunting through them. But I also come from a farming background and understanding how overpopulation of certain animals can do serious financial damage to crops and the extra work done to prevent this.

The people I knew hunted because it brought extra food for the table. The family ate better and food dollars went further when you had venison stored in the freezer or could bring extra fish to the table.

But if I had to live around hunters like yours I might never have created a post like this.

[2naSalit]

118. I wonder if...

your F&G family members bothered to tell you how most "game" species are usually managed for overpopulation to give hunters something to kill, and how that can also mean removal of predators who would naturally keep those species' populations in check if they had not been removed for the convenience of "hunting". That's the way it usually works even if nobody in the agency is willing to admit it.

If/when I do eat meat, which is rarely, I acquire it from organic/human farmers whom I know personally, otherwise, I won't eat it.

[Blue_In_AK]

144. Rogue, you must LOVE Don Young's office decor then.

What an ass he is.

[oberliner]

119. And yet the vast majority of the meat that people eat in the US comes from factory farms

I don't understand how people don't seem to have much of a problem with that. Especially those people who are upset by the dentist killing the lion.

[prayin4rain]

127. Agreed. I don't get animal lovers who eat the meat of animals that were literally tortured.

I'm not a ginormous animal lover and even I have enough care for animals to be a vegetarian. I've always said the only animal I'd eat is one who lived a happy life until I was willing to kill it myself to eat it. Since I'm not willing to do that, I'm a vegetarian.

[tecelote]

133. Each generation decides what cruelty they will tolerate...

[a la izquierda]

3. I'm a vegan and I get the difference.

My colleague feeds his family of 6 on deer he hunts. That doesn't bother me in the slightest. Sick fuck trophy hunters enrage me. Factory farming enrages me. Hunting or fishing to feed a family doesn't.

[LynneSin]

8. When I first posted this I was worried I'd get some judgemental folks however..

I'd figured Vegans were the only people I would accept any criticism from on this matter since they were the only ones who truly did not eat or use any animal products.

Ironically it seems the Vegans are the first to defend me so it is much appreciated.

But with all this vile hatred towards the dentist (and btw much deserved too!) I wanted to make sure people realized that the dentist is the 1% of the hunters.

And what's nice is for hunters who enjoy the sport but really do not want the animal afterwards there are soup kitchens throughout the state that will gladly accept those killed animals. That can make a big difference having a couple of deer to help feed the hungry with an excellent source of lean protien.

[AtheistCrusader]

33. I wouldn't be surprised to discover a direct correlation between economic affluence and the desire t

to trophy hunt, versus subsistence hunting.

It seems self-evident enough I guess, visiting hunting permits run in the thousands of dollars, the trip itself, thousands more, etc, so it kind of has to be the 1%'ers really...

[Lifelong Protester]

36. I agree with you.

I am a vegetarian, but I get all of my animal products from known sources. I live in rural WI. I do not at all mind hunting for food-I get that. Trophy hunting, and factory farms, both of those bother me.

[still_one]

4. Hunting for food I have no problem with. Hunting for bragging rights or a trophy is bullshit.

Incidentally, I am a vegatarian, and I don't resent hunters

[KatyMan]

6. I would never hunt, but don't judge hunters

because I think the majority of them are as you describe, and use the as much of the animal as they can. I personally just couldn't shoot and kill another being, largely because I feel enough killing goes on in my name (so to speak) as I still eat meat. But I really don't see how these big game hunters can call it a sport--animals are intelligent creatures, but not compared to humans, especially humans with vehicles and guns or bows; there's no sport in it. And killing should never be called a sport.

Honestly, the only reason I'm not a vegetarian is because I don't like vegetables!

Thanks you LynneSin for your post!

[LynneSin]

11. I'm like you. I could never kill an animal, not even lower species of animals like shellfish

I love crabs but someone else has to cook them for me. The concept of tossing a live one into a pot of boiling water disgusts me to no end.

I would have a tough time going vegetarian. First I love seafood way too much. Also, I can't do any kind of soy product with my medication, which means I'd lose one of my biggest protien options. But I have cut back on my red meat so that's good.

[KatyMan]

14. It's definitely a conundrum, isn't it?

I don't like any seafood at all (yes, I know, weird), but I recall George Carlin's line: "If lobsters looked like puppies, people could never drop them in boiling water while they're still alive. But instead, they look like science fiction monsters, so it's OK".

[sub.theory]

7. I have no problems with hunting provided

1. The animal is not of an endangered or threatened species

2. The animal will actually be used for food

3. The animal is given a quick death free of needless suffering

4. All laws are obeyed

[LynneSin]

9. I have a small clarification for #2

If the hunter does not want the animal for food (they just want the trophy) then they need to make sure that the animal is properly donated to an organization that can use the food. There are plenty of Shelters and Soup Kitchens in any hunting region that will gladly except unwanted kills so they can butcher up that meat and use it to feed/donate to the hungry.

[Gormy Cuss]

23. Trophy hunting is trophy hunting.

Bagging a deer or an elk just for the thrill of the kill is little different from killing a lion or giraffe.


eta: I know many hunters who count on their fall deer kill to feed the family. I'm not against hunting for food.

[AtheistCrusader]

34. I think apex predators should be off-limits.

We still barely understand their impact on the food chain, and there are so few of them, any damage to that element of the chain can be devastating. Lions don't reproduce and mature super-quick after all.

Want to hunt something super-dangerous? Go hunt wild boar instead of lions or other big cats.

[LynneSin]

38. They had wild boar up in NC Pennsylvania

Those things were nasty and did serious damage to farm crops. Farmers just wanted those things dead.

[AtheistCrusader]

67. Yeah, they are super mean.

Wreck everything, will attack people at times, yeah... Unpleasant and worst of all, an invasive species.

[Adrahil]

78. I would add a slight exception.....

In some places, there are hunts performed against nuisance predators, like coyotes. Around here, they can devastate chicken coops, and even range in to kill family pets.

Normally they are hit and run types. But occasionally, one or a group settle in and you have to get them out. Coyotes are common here, and NOT endangered.

[Codeine]

10. As a vegan I have more respect for hunters

than people who get squeamish about killing but still ram double-handfuls of flesh down their swollen, greasy gullets while frantically gesturing for more bacon.

[A HERETIC I AM]

12. As a meat eater.....

I never realized that's how I look when I eat.

Wow. Thanks for that enlightenment.

ram double-handfuls of flesh down their swollen, greasy gullets while frantically gesturing for more bacon.

WHERE'S MY FUCKING BACON?!?

[Iggo]

13. Trophy hunters are scum.

[onehandle]

17. +1000. nt

[CountAllVotes]

44. +1,000 !!!

I couldn't agree more, they are S C U M of the lowest type of piece o'shyte on the planet!

[RebelOne]

62. I agree. Until 2010, I was a copy editor for outdoors magazines

published throughout the US. And all the hunting stories were about trophy hunting. Every time I saw one of the photos with the smiling hunter holding up the head of his trophy, I wished I could slap the smile off his face.

[840high]

99. ...^ that

[phantom power]

15. Trophy hunting is 100% about ego, and the most pathological kinds of ego.

The ego of killing Something Big And Impressive, to make the Mighty White Hunter feel bigger. But more than that. It's the ego of economic status. Just a form of conspicuous consumption involving the murder of an animal. "Look at me, I can afford the thousands of dollars it costs to go to Africa and pay an outfitter, and the permit fees, etc."

I'm glad this asshole is being publicly shamed, and facing possible jail time.

[Herman4747]

18. Another Point of View Worth Considering

This fellow here stridently taught Ahimsa:

?w=300&h=205

This Nobel Peace Prize Laureate strongly emphasized Reverence for Life:



A great admirer of both of these gentlemen was another Albert, who had this to say:

"Nothing will benefit human health and increase the chances for survival of life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet." —Albert Einstein.

I'll stick with these guys.

[darkangel218]

19. +1000!

I'm with you.

[slumcamper]

30. EXACTLY.

And let's be crystal clear about the appropriation--and misappropriation--of the word "hunter." Those who legitimately hunt for food are one matter; commenter addressed that. However, I've witnessed plenty of self-proclaimed "hunters" extinguish wildlife for target practice, leave it lay, and whoop and holler and laugh it up as they do so. Such indiscriminate and mindless killing is a very troubling character issue among such "hunters." For such people it is part of the gun culture. I find their attitude idiotic, sickening, and despicable.

The point: There are a WHOLE LOT of people hiding behind the mantle of "hunter" who are big-time into kill and thrill. These folks typically worship at the altar of the NRA and 2nd Amendment and are no different than those who cling to religion and claim religious freedom as an excuse to hate and kill. That's not a false equivalency. in fact, they are two parts of a callous and narcisstic mindset.

BOOM.

[LynneSin]

40. I agree with you 100%

My family and friends who hunt do so because they know they will use the food from the animals they hunt (or fish). My father actually had a frog hunter licenses in the state of Pennsylvania (yes you can get those). And btw they do taste like chicken.

[xmas74]

103. I haven't been gigging in years.

I was never a fan of frog legs but I used to go out with some coworkers for midnight fishing and gigging. An older woman used to go with us and she would make the legs for us. Her batter was fantastic: beer with cornmeal and flour, some tobasco and I think maybe some Old Bay. She always deep fried in peanut oil.

I never could do it but I used to go out with them all the time while they did it.

[Lurker Deluxe]

53. Really?

What are they shooting that they leave it lay? And where?

Hell, I am in Texas and I certainly do not see that. Nuisance animals perhaps, but no game animals.

I'll have to disagree with "a whole lot" ...

Even in Texas, on private land, game warden reigns supreme ... everyone knows it. Hell, we were shooting at a 55 gallon drum at my place in Cut & Shoot and the game warden stopped in to see what was going on.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

128. Nuisance animals?

just asking

[sybylla]

136. This would vary by region.

But would include skunks, woodchucks, raccoon (though my family has eaten raccoon killed in winter), and other animals who find an advantage foraging off of farms and in back yards.

My compost pile used to bring a couple of skunks, possum and raccoon in each summer, and sometimes they posed a threat to pets (appearing to be rabid or otherwise sick).

Raccoons will take up residence in barns. Woodchucks dig holes in pastures that threaten injury to horses and cattle, etc.

[Ineeda]

58. Perfectly said.

Welcome to DU (and I love your sig line.)

[Duppers]

96. Love these quotes.

Thanks for posting.

Here's my problem: Currently I am again sharing my life with another pet carnivore and, at this point in life, I'm incapable of killing anything myself.

I have shared my life with many meat eaters in the past: 3 dogs and 7 cats. What can pet owners like me do? Continue to be hypocrites?

[Lizzie Poppet]

20. Outstanding post!

I grew up hunting but gave it up as a teen girl (at 14 or so). Interestingly, my dad (a lifelong hunter) did so at the same time. He still "hunts," but decided back then to switch to a camera. Both of us simply realized that we just weren't interested in shooting any creature that didn't really, really need to be shot.

That said, I have no problem with responsible hunters who make good use of the animals they kill, hunters who scrupulously follow the game laws. Trophy hunters are, on the other hand, despicable.

[diverdownjt]

129. Show me this animal that you say "really need to be shot"

If we all stopped shooting at everything that moves...including each other....then eventually
nature would find its balancing point again. When you continue to kill animals for whatever
reason you continue to unbalance nature. Have a fucking salad like your doctor told you too.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

21. My personal attitude

My family and I eat meat. We are all compromised in ways that prevent us from hunting.

I don't like the idea of hunting. Camping and hiking are okay. Just watching nature is a gift.

I can respect anyone who does hunt and sees to it that none of the animal products are wasted.

Hunting without harvesting the animal products is just killing for sport and analogous to murder.

Justice = the trophy hunter becoming prey.

[hedgehog]

22. We are not hunters, but are very glad to permit our neighbors to hunt on our property.

They are respectful of the deer and careful with their shooting. Some years they don't get a deer, but when they do, they eat what they kill.

[LynneSin]

41. Most farmers welcome hunters on their land

They see deer as nothing more than pest that can cause thousands of dollars of damage to their crops especially if the population is allowed to get to large on their property. Not so much that the deer want to eat the crops but you allow deer to go running through the crops it can do incredible ammounts of permament damage. They find that hunters are the best solution to keep the larger wildlife population down in size so they won't lose profits to these 'pests'

[La Lioness Priyanka]

24. why are vegetarians not allowed to judge hunting (just kidding.)

i respect hunters of food. hunters of trophies on the other hand are a whole different issue.

[LynneSin]

43. Technically vegetarians still use product from animals including leather

which means some of those come from corporation farms.

I was worried if I posted this I was going to get a ton of people calling me some sort of horrible animal hater.

Turns out I was wrong and oddly enough the vegans were the most understanding of the supporters. Probably because hunting animals by those who obey the laws are probably obtaining their meat in the most humane method out there for meat eaters (as compared to corporation meat)

[HERVEPA]

55. Many vegetarians, myself included, use no nimal products, including leather,

[LynneSin]

60. wouldn't that make you vegan?

just curious

[restorefreedom]

80. don't want to speak for anyone else here

but in general, there are different levels of vegetarianism. Some vegetarians consume dairy only, some consume dairy and eggs, some vegetarians will consume dairy and or eggs but will avoid leather, wool, and animal tested household products and cosmetics. some people might be vegetarian in diet but vegan in lifestyle. And some people might follow a vegan diet but not necessarily extend that to leather products and so forth. And then some who are completely vegan try to maintain a diet and lifestyle that is vegan.

hope that didn't confuse things even further.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

83. no because vegans also avoid milk and eggs and honey

(which technically can be taken from animals with no suffering/killing of animals)

[hunter]

25. Fish my dad caught, and later fish we ourselves caught were a major source of protein...

... in our family diet when I was a kid, right up there with beans, lentils, and later, eggs, and occasional family farm animals.

I've seen animals I'm eating when they are alive. I've hunted, I've fished, I've seen animals turned into dinner. My great grandmas could turn fish we caught, or live chickens into dinner faster than I could follow their hands and knives. As a little kid I'd sometimes watch with grim fascination. My great grandmas were U.S.A. "Wild West."

Buying factory farmed or commercially "harvested" meat in the supermarket, often in an unrecognizable form (fish sticks, chicken nuggets, ground beef, bacon...), most people simply don't think about. They are disconnected from the harsh realities of their meat, the hideous factory farms, and the environmental destruction and abusive working conditions (including actual slavery) of international industrial scale fishing fleets.

For all these reasons, I'm "mostly" vegetarian, and whenever I have meat or fish or dairy products, I think about where it comes from. Some things I simply won't touch, and it disturbs me to see these meats for sale in the supermarket.

Eating less meat, and thinking about the meat I do eat, reduces the size of my footprint on earth.

Flying to Africa to shoot a "trophy" animal is disgusting; it's simply stomping on the face of the natural environment and the more gentle aspects of the human spirit. Shooting a lion familiar enough with people not to see them as a grave danger, is beyond disgusting.

I won't feel bad at all if this guy's practice is ruined, he has to sell everything, and he ends up unable to afford travel anywhere to hunt. Maybe he'll get a part time job in a prison, pulling prisoner's rotten teeth.

Sadly, he's probably the sort of rat bastard who'd sit on his back porch shooting squirrels he lured into his yard with peanuts.

[quizzle]

26. #notallhunters

[packman]

27. My uncle was a "hunter"

had a collection of guns on the rack, all oiled and beautiful in their own right. He was a steelworker and he and his buddies bought a run-down shack on a few acres of land and each year would spend 2 weeks "hunting" in the hills of Pennsylvania. Curious about why he never brought back a deer after years of "hunting" my aunt said the bugger would spend 2 weeks away from the rest of his family drinking and playing cards and hanging out with his buddies. She was O.K. with it and he was too.
I don't think he'd know what to do with a deer if he had ever shot one.

Interestingly enough, in his later years he gave up his guns and went bow-hunting - however, again, I doubt if he ever came near a deer.

[csziggy]

28. For many years I didn't allow any hunting on my farm

But over the years, the health of our local deer herds suffered from over population and interbreeding. In 2008 a family moved their horses onto the farm and began managing it for me. They noted the poor health of our deer and asked about culling the herd.

Unlike trophy hunters they observe the deer all year and select certain individuals to take, usually young bucks with obvious defects or elderly does with no fawns. They've only taken two or three deer and have shared the meat with me when they do. The only part they don't use is the offal. Every other part of the deer is used - sometimes traded with the butcher shop that cuts up the deer and packages it for them.

The deer have become much healthier because of the careful management of the herd my friends do - healthier than if I'd had left them alone with no culling. Without large predators to take sick or unfit individuals the deer are indiscriminate breeders and would continue to degrade in health.

[dorkzilla]

29. Killing what you eat is different than killing for sport

I come from a LONG line of hunters who ate everything they killed (dad and grandpa were butchers as well).

This guy isn’t a hunter. He’s a murderer.

[niyad]

31. not a vegan, but I have absolutely no problem with the people who hunt for food. trophy

hunters, canned hunters, though, should meet the same fate as their victims.

[zipplewrath]

35. This is what I know

These luxury hunts exist all over the world, including the US, and if the hunting community doesn't some how get their hands around the problem, there's gonna be more trouble. Leaving it to PETA to uncover and expose these operations is a losing proposition. Ducks Unlimited or some other similar organization is going to have to get out there with a set of operational standards, and start giving "seals of approval" so that people lose the whole "I didn't know" excuse.

[MiniMe]

37. I wouldn't hunt myself, but I have no problems with people who eat what they hunt

Or somebody eats what is hunted. I object to trophy hunters.

[flamin lib]

39. Thanks for posting such a thoughtful piece.

In Texas hunting is the only reason wildlife still has any habitat to sustain it. When we became a state the US required Texas to pay off all its war debt before joining the Union. The Nation of Texas sold all public lands to accumulate the cash to do that. As a result the only public lands are lands donated to the state by the individuals who own them. The Big Bend is a great example of a ranch being turned into a state treasure.

Texas Parks and Wildlife does an outstanding job of managing populations through hunting/fishing rules and regulations. They have some stringent regulations on white tail deer, all aimed at improving the health and population of the herd. The gulf flounder was almost gone and only a few years after stringent regulation of the harvest and artificial replacement of stock the population is healthy.

TP&W is funded by hunting/fishing licenses and taxes on motor boat fuel. In recent years Rick Perry has raided the fund to show an artificial "surplus" and prevent dipping into the "rainy day fund" which would be an admission that the economy isn't all the rosy. I buy a "super combo license" every year (deer, migratory bird, fresh water fishing and "exotics" not regulated otherwise). I've been hunting deer with my brother for the last decade and have successfully avoided shooting anything and neither have I caught any fish. He, on the other hand, harvests the maximum allowed of everything that walks, swims, flies or crawls. Everything goes into the freezer.

Part of what TP&W is doing right now is improving the quality of trophy deer through defining what is legal to kill; spikes, poorly developed antlers and real trophy quality deer are legal leaving the best breeding stock for the herd. Yes, Trophy hunting helps to fund all the research into wildlife and habitat management just as food harvesting does. Done right, and legally, trophy hunting is just as important to the sustainability of wildlife and habitat as any other reason for hunting.

Key is DONE RIGHT, WELL REGULATED AND SUSTAINABLE.

I now surrender the soapbox to others.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

116. Everything I've read so far makes it quite clear that Zimbabwe is rife with corruption.

Nowhere near Done right and well regulated.

[Logical]

42. Anyone who needs a picture sitting by a killed animal is weird in my book. Nt

[LynneSin]

47. The picture I prefer is the family sitting around the table enjoying the dinner from eating it

That is the better memory!

[Surya Gayatri]

131. Reminds me of the ISIS sub-humans who stand there in front

of the camera holding up a severed head.

Same psychopathy. Same sick, self-satisfied arrogance.

[ismnotwasm]

45. I agree

My SIL hunts and fishes, is a skilled bow hunter--hard to do, but he likes sitting in the woods and the quiet--and although is unfortunetly conservative in most areas, is an avid environmentalist as well.

He has no respect for hunters without respect for animals.

Even vegans have been known to wear leather shoes, or remain unaware of other animal products, but I'm sure there are a few here on DU that are able to embrace that lifestyle and I respect them for it.

[safeinOhio]

46. If I could, I'd only eat meat that I have harvested.

I just bought a place in northern michigan so I can move closer to that goal. I never buy beef or pork to bring home. The only red meat I purchase is lamb and goat. They are mostly grass fed and not raised in feed lots. I love to fish and unlike most I only fish for food and not for sport. I only shoot what I'm going to eat and do all the work myself. I really think my food taste better than others.

[Initech]

48. The killing of the lion bothers me, but what bothers me even more...

Is that he broke into a protected sanctuary, bribed the guards with $55,000, and purposefully disabled the lion's GPS tracker in order to kill it past the electronic perimeter. That's not hunting, that's animal cruelty. Add in a history of animal abuse and you've got a perfect storm here.

Not only that, the lion was part of a decade long research study. So all that research was ruined because this guy had to have a trophy.

[redstatebluegirl]

88. Not to mention he shot the lion with an arrow that did not kill him.

According to reports on MSNBC he let the animal suffer for hours before he shot it and put it out of the misery he had caused this poor animal. I don't have issues with hunting for food if you can do it, I can't, but this was abuse, not hunting in any way!

[MatthewStLouis]

138. I beleive the lion was lured out with bait as well...

Truly reprehensible!

[TygrBright]

49. All Life Lives at the Expense of Other Life

It's how life works.

Life is produced by life, sustained by life, increases and produces more life, sustains it and then through death may become part of more life.

Everyone must choose where and how they will be sustained by life-- what other forms of life, actual and potential, it is morally acceptable to consume, and under what conditions. That is one of our essential moral tasks as individuals. And throughout our lifetimes the choices and the perceptions of value and morality that drive them will inevitably evolve with us.

We will never be able to live outside the cycle of life-dying-to-enable-life. It doesn't work that way.

I believe that one of our essential moral tasks as a community, however, is to keep pushing our collective perceptions of value and morality in choices about being sustained by other life in the direction of awareness, empathy and caring for all life.

Hunting for food is no exception to the evaluation of choices and values in survival at the expense of other life. We have evolved standards of ethics that apply even in subsistence hunting.

In fact, subsistence hunters are some of those most keenly aware of balancing the needs of other species to survive with our own, just as subsistence farmers and gatherers sometimes make difficult choices about seed crops and propagation. So- hunt for food? I have no problems with that.

Balancing how we live to sustain the capacity of all life in sustaining each contributing form of life is a higher task than we've yet managed to grasp, but I believe we're evolving in that direction.

You want to take risks? You want to get close to large, magnificent predators? You want to polish your stalking skills?

TAKE A FUCKING CAMERA.

Even there- do it responsibly. Habitats are fragile.

sadly,
Bright

[chessmister]

113. Well said

I'm a long time member, but very rare poster. I just wanted to say that I was impressed by the thoughtfulness of this post. I agree. Well said.

[TNNurse]

50. Trophy hunting

is not hunting. It is feeding an ego. A pitiful need to kill something to make you feel better about yourself.
Actual hunting is for food.

My husband says that this guy will get support from other hunters. He thinks people will travel to be his patient to support him.
People put their time and money toward very ignorant goals....most call themselves Republicans.

[Moral Compass]

51. Have no problem with hunting

This was not hunting. This was a canned hunt where a lion which was used to the presence of people was lured into a spot where he could be ambushed.

I feel about this the way I feel about people who lease land and spread deer corn around and then kill the deer from a deer stand while they're feeding. That is not hunting.

The only saving grace of the deer killers is that at least they eat their kill.

This jack hole killed for a trophy. This is the latest in a series of kills that he is very proud of. He has killed a leopard, a bear (for which he was charged with bagging illegally but let off with a years probation), a rhino, and a beautiful elk... He also got a writeup in either the New York Times or the New Yorker as some sort of bow hunter extraordinaire. He had already bagged a lion, but I bet Cecil's head was going to make a better trophy. The other lion didn't look as good.

He's not right in the head.

[Kablooie]

52. I don't hunt but I agree that hunting for food is moral and natural.

I'm sure many hunters enjoy the chase and achieving a kill, which I personally don't identify with, but as long as the animal population is sufficient and the animal is used for food I have no objections.

It's vanity hunting and of course poaching just to sell a part of an animal that is intensely immoral in my opinion.
Hunting is certainly a part of nature and people who pursue this activity reasonably should be respected.

[cp]

54. Thank you for your thoughtful post

I live in a rural area with many hunters, nearly all of whom are respectful and ethical. In turn, I've come to respect them. The dentist and other trophy seekers are not hunters. They are driven by local guides who flush the animals right to them. All they do is sit and point their big gun. My vocabulary does not contain enough insults to convey my infinite scorn and disgust, but you can imagine.

[DirkGently]

56. Do you have a take on what motivates "trophy hunting?"

Last edited Wed Jul 29, 2015, 01:58 PM - Edit history (2)

I don't think there's that much confusion at this point between eating meat, which requires killing an animal, and slaughtering something, particularly a rare species, for entertainment. Most of us, hunters or not, get that.

Clearly we all used to feel differently about hunting for "sport." Teddy Roosevelt was and probably still is considered a great early conservationist, but his idea of appreciating wild animals included killing them for sport. I think there was a time when people were less secure in their dominance over nature, and felt like bringing down a large or fierce animal was a test of some kind. Of courage? Skill? At some point, maybe as a species we needed to take some kind of joy or pride in being able to "fight" animals.

But now? With modern weapons, vehicles, tracking devices? What is there left to prove regarding our ability to effortlessly kill anything that walks, flys, swims or crawls?

What chills me most is not the act of killing an animal by itself. I eat meat, and I acknowledge that industrial farms need reform and are likely far more cruel to the pigs and chickens and cows that we eat than a hunter's bullet. I wouldn't for a second contemplate that shooting a deer to eat was somehow inhumane.

It's the attitude of trophy or "canned hunting" I don't understand. The grinning pose next to a rhinoceros or a leopard -- the apparent sense of ... accomplishment? With modern equipment, guides, and hunting preserves, what kind of *person* takes pleasure in just shooting something to death? I can grasp the sense of accomplishment in getting food. I know it's not easy to "get" a deer in the woods. But to just have someone drive you to where a rhino or zebra or lion is, and kill it?

It feels to me like the very worst of humanity. People consumed with a sickening mix of insecurity and a sense of entitlement to "take" what others cannot, or what we have collectively decided we should not. That's even the word they use -- "take."

I grew up with a person who is now a fairly high-ranking federal law enforcement officer. Looking him up one day, I found pictures of him, grinning next to a dead zebra in Africa, guide and gun by his side. A relative married into a rich family that owns a "hunting preserve" in Texas. I get to hear "funny" stories like one about one of the in-laws, a woman with no skill at all with a weapon, having quail or partridge literally tossed in the air in front of her shotgun so that she could manage to kill them. She was apparently delighted.

It bothers me in a way I cannot completely explain that people with privilege, rank, wealth, and authority appear to take their amusement in slaughtering a beautiful animal just to show they can.

I care about the animals. But it is the people that bother me here.

Do you have any insight into where they're coming from? Have they displaced the sense of accomplishment one might feel by being in nature and working hard to gain something useful for your family under difficult circumstances with this empty, talentless process of just blowing holes in living things for amusement?

Are these not among the worst, most depraved people in our society? And why do they also seem to be the same ones most determined to seek out power and authority, and of course, firearms?

[PassingFair]

97. Another question: Is it culture or testosterone?

So few women seem to have a taste for it.

Why?

[xmas74]

104. I don't know too many women who trophy hunt

but I do know quite a few who hunt for food. In my neck of the woods it would be culture. For a few it's a great way to save a few bucks on groceries for their families.

[DirkGently]

140. More like privilege.

There's no shortage I can see of trophy hunting women. Most likely they weren't welcomed in the past on the usual sexist grounds.

One of the recent cultural freak outs involved some hunting "babe" internet marketing herself with lurid kill pics. The anecdote from my life of the woman having birds thrown in front of her shotgun for a hoot sticks in my mind.

Sarah Palin probably eats her kills, but the weird bloodlust sure seems to be there.

It feels to me like fearfully aggressive people, frantic to feel in control over life and death.

[Joey Liberal]

57. Oh yes, I will judge hunters

I don't see the joy in killing animals for sport.

Sorry.

[LynneSin]

61. do you eat meat?

You find it more humane how animals go through slaughter houses vs how normal hunters (not psychopaths like the dentist) will hunt for a deer and then use that deer to feed their family.

Interesting.

[Go Vols]

72. +1

[apnu]

64. I think he's talking about hunters who hunt for food vs sport

There's a difference and the hunting community knows is very well.

I married into a hunting family. I don't hunt, I've no need to. The good hunters are out there and have every intention of using the whole animal they kill. They carry weapons that are very efficient for hunting and they aren't automatic or semi-automatic para-military weapons. They don't think of it as a sport, rather a skill they use. None of the "good" hunter's I've met take any joy in the killing. They respect their pray, they appreciate their prey, they have a love for the outdoors and wild places. Any joy they find is being outdoors and away from their hectic lives.

Then there are the bad hunters. They play soldier, whoop and shout like asshats. They carry full auto assault weapons and they empty the clip every time they hear a leaf move. They're a danger to themselves and everything around them. They have no respect for the land or the animals that inhabit it. They get chubbies killing things and think their lives are defined by how many big monsters they can bag. Obviously they're making up for other short comings.

Sadly there are more bad hunters than good hunters.

[Adrahil]

79. A couple things....

1) Most of the hunters I know consume their kills. And frankly, hunting is more environmentally friendly than factory farming.

2) I don't see the joy in playing golf. Or watching football. But I get that other people do.

[Enthusiast]

63. Kicked and recommended!

I could not agree more.

Want to read an action packed, fun novel on this very subject? I highly recommend Savage Run by C.J. Box. Box's central character is a conscientious Montana game warden that has to deal with miscreants like the dentist.

[Zorra]

69. [phone] My family have been hunters. fishers, and farmers on both sides,

for millennium. Women and men. I began to teach my son to hunt, fish, and farm at an early age...he caught his first rainbow (2 lbs!) at the age of 2 1/2 yrs old, and shot his first grouse (ruffed) in the head with a .22 at 2 3/4 yrs old. Of course, I hooked the fish and helped him reel it in, and held my arms around him, onto the stock and forestock, and he pulled the trigger. My children have been taught to strictly take all food out of necessity, and with respect for life. Plants as well. And my grandchildren will learn the same. Girls and boys alike.

I just went to visit one of my boys, his lovely "hippie country girl" wife, and my young grandchildren on their little farm.

We took the grandkids out for their first lesson in how to fish, and caught a mess of brookies. The oldest, who just turned 6, caught his first trout, a nice brookie, went over a pound, easy. We explained why it is necessary to give thanks when taking a life, to begin the process of understanding respect Then the kids watched as my son and I cleaned the fish, with the baby watching with interest while strapped to her mom's back.

Then we went back to the farm, and cooked the trout on an open fire. We showed the kids how to pull on the top of the spine of the cooked trout, so that all the bones would come out of the fish at one time. We fed a guest, who enjoyed the feast of fresh fish, and fresh picked new potatoes, young carrots, and fresh greens. And fine local beer.

I hope I can be there for my grandkids' first hunting lesson. The two oldest already know more about growing food than probably 80% of the adults in the US.

Thank you for the thread, LynneSin.

[Orsino]

70. So it seems we DON'T have to be 100% vegan to get judgy about hunting.

Agreed.

[LynneSin]

115. I was worried everyone was going to jump on me for supporting hunting

turns out I was wrong and probably didn't need the vegan statement. Heck even then vegans have been supportive.

[Eleanors38]

73. We all kill in order to eat. What's your method?

I take one or two deer a year, a few dozen dove, some squirrels, ducks, maybe a Rio Grande turkey.

Tens of millions get their meat under cellophane at the super market.

Some millions eat vegetables, grown in human abstractions called a farms which blow huge holes through ecosystems.

Then we point fingers to assuage guilt: "My way of killing is better than your way!"

As Flaming lib in #39 alludes to, there is no easy moral escape. The Texas PWD is indeed managing the biggest deer herds of any state by placing antler restrictions on bucks taken, and encouraging more anterless deer be taken during periods of over population. The result is more bucks with bigger "horns" and a population which the land can bear.

But look closer, those who condemn "trophy hunting." Taking bigger (trophy) bucks is a biological plus. When bucks get into the category of legality, they have already sewn their seed for a number of years before they can be taken; many does have passed on his DNA. Years before this management approach you could take ANY buck -- including young fork horns which in no way would be considered trophies -- and meet someone's fanciful notion that you were hunting for meat only. And yet that forkhorn could have become a genetically superior "trophy" several years later.

I killed and ate a 154 lb 10 pt buck with a 17" spread a few years back in Central Texas under low-fence conditions. That buck was big for the area, and had serviced many does over the years. In another year or two, he would be past his reproductive life and consuming a lot of drought wracked vegatation. I am proud that I took that trophy, along with the does and buck yearlings which the biologist recommended due to a crashing population and future need for does to replenish the land.

A note on safaris in Africa (and elsewhere). Most operations are quite legit and are given strict quotas for animals which in many areas are not endangered. The fees are vital to the citizens of the various countries, help keep populations within land carrying capacity, and perhaps more importantly the safaris serve as many trained eyes and ears to prevent the now quasi-militarized poachers from raking the wildlife more than they do now. There is a deadly dynamic at work: End even legitimate safaris by government action so that the poachers can have free reign. The organized poaching of Africa has deeply corrupted some of these governments, yet we blame species elimination on a rather few safaris?

Read Wooters' Hunting Trophy Bucks to get some insight on domestic deer hunting before we creat a new enemy out of "trophy hunters."

[chalmers]

74. Your attempt to make this about agriculture is an epic fail.

[darkangel218]

110. +1 million

No kidding.

[Eleanors38]

75. Thanks to LynneSin for posting on this polarizing subject.

[alarimer]

76. In some cases (particularly for invasive species such as pigs) they are doing a very good thing.

I also think that hunting and fishing (which is no different except fish are not usually seen as cuddly, and many populations are not in terrific shape because of commercial fishing) are important in terms of population management. In many places we humans have killed or otherwise displaced top predators such as wolves which previously kept prey animals in check. So we need a tool to keep those populations (of deer, say) from overrunning their food supply.

Also, there are excise taxes on hunting and fishing equipment and motorboat fuels that fund conservation activities. Without that and with continuing budget cuts, states would have a very difficult time meeting their obligations to the people of the state. Between those taxes and the license fees, hunters and fishers pay for much of the work that needs to be done to manage populations. It is still not an easy task because there are many competing interests and a lot of political trade-offs. And there are arguments against that sort of "user pays, user benefits" arrangement. What happens when those activities become less popular? Where does the money come from then? Will there be pressure to avoid making tough decisions on the part of state officials because it will result is fewer funds coming it (spoiler alert: there is plenty of that pressure). Finally, is it fair that hunters and fishermen have borne the brunt of this cost, when other outdoors people (hikers, campers) do not have to pay similar excise taxes on their equipment to fund parks?

Finally, African nations are facing a lot of pressure from poachers and not just for elephant ivory. They need an outlet, a way to raise funds for conservation activities and anti-poaching enforcement. And that may include legal hunting. I think that's fine so long as the animal is abundant enough so that the hunting activities do not impact the population. This would not include elephants or lions, since they are not in great shape. More like wildebeests or various species of antelope. It becomes difficult when governments are corrupt and willing to take bribes for rich westerners to kill whatever they want.

But I agree in large part with what you said. Most hunters I know are not like that dentist. (As an aside, I was musing the other day about a local dentist who drives a Ferrari. I only wish this guy had spend his money on Ferraris, instead of the way he did).

[arely staircase]

77. well put. we used to hunt birds (quail, dove, duck and even geese)

When my father died I lost interest because it wasn't the same without him. We were never into big game like deer because none of us like venison. Quail was my favorite to hunt and eat. Watching a good bird dog work is amazing. Anyway, none of us were or even understood the impulse to trophy hunt. What this guy did makes me very sad and angry.

[LynneSin]

85. Venison really matters where you hunt the game

I've found that venison taken from state game land tends to be a bit 'gamier' because I know that game lands would put out salt licks for the deer during non-hunting seasons. You could taste that bit of saltiness in the deer meat. Most of the deer our family caught was on private land where we wouldn't put out salt licks. We also had a tendency to put out scraps for the animals which I know the deer enjoyed eating along with the corn so the deer that lived on the farm in the area where our family hunted had a nicer flavor to them.

[arely staircase]

91. that makes sense. i actually ate antelope and liked it

Someone else killed it. I like goat. one side of the family is puro Mexicano so I have eaten lots of cabrito The other side of the family is Scots Irish guns and pickups hunting/fishing types who oddly don't hunt deer and fish for catfish to eat, none of us ever got into the bass boat, tackle box full of expensive lures, etc - and we are all liberal democrats (the Mexican and the rednecks side).

[Cleita]

81. Nice call about hunting into the Thom Hartmann show this morning.

Man said he hunted for food. He made sure he had a direct shot killing the animal instantly or he didn't take the shot. He buried the brain and heart of the animal saying a prayer that he didn't want his soul just his meat. He said it was important to respect the animal you killed for food. He said his son once shot a squirrel so he made him eat it to teach him a lesson that what you hunted you ate. He said his son never shot a squirrel again. He didn't say whether he was Native American but it seems like he would be.

I live in the country and once lived in the woods. Predators hunt for food and those that graze try to avoid being eaten. I'm not saying some don't hunt and kill for fun. My cat certainly does. However, as the intelligent species on this planet, we need to know that we are meat eaters. It's just how we go about obtaining our meat in the most humane way possible is what we need to work on. Killing for trophies is sick. Torturing and killing is cruel. Neither have a place in a civilized society.

Also, since hunting has become a business, many places keep the predator population down, trapping and killing them, so the ungulates increase and have to be thinned out insuring a profitable hunting season in those place. I think that has to change.

[LynneSin]

86. My father was the same way with my fishing

I remember winning a fishing contest when I was young. I caught the largest brown trout. That night I cleaned and cooked that brown trout myself.

I was never squeamish with stuff like that.

[restorefreedom]

82. I think a lot of the reaction about Cecil

is because this guy clearly was not hunting for food, the sick bastard was hunting for the thrill and for that matter it really can't even be called a hunt it was a slaughter. I think a lot of people who are speaking out against this might even be hunters themselves. I was listening to a radio show this morning where they were discussing this and hunters were calling up and saying that this was sick and depraved and that they only hunt to eat. There are definitely people who are against all hunting for any reason, but I think the reaction about Cecil is much different than that for most people. People recognize that the sick bastard was in it for the thrills and he's just a selfish prick who doesn't care about life in any form. At least that's what I'm getting from most of the responses I read.

A discussion about hunting for food is a completely different discussion in my view. And there are people on both sides of that too, but I think most people are united in their disgust for this POS.

i am vegan myself and right now, i am focused on the sick and depraved nature of this illegal slaughter and the implications for wildlife conservation and getting justice for poor Cecil. I will think about hunting for food another day.

But not today.

[fbc]

84. I'm not a hunter, but I agree with you. So does Bernie Sanders.

[PatrynXX]

87. thats pretty much what my pro gun nut brother said...

ie he just made hunters look bad. Simply put he said you shoot to kill with a bow and arrow and if you fuck up you kill it right away not wait 40 hours..,

[Scuba]

89. K&R

[passiveporcupine]

90. I'll take this one step further

First, unless you are 100% vegan do not dare judge about hunting.

If you have pets that require a high protein diet, like dogs, cats, and ferrets, you are feeding them food that contains meat or meat byproducts. You are supporting farm animals being raised for meat.

I could never be a hunter, but I don't have a problem with hunters, if they follow all the laws, as they help keep animal numbers in control too (based on what the govt. decides is needed, and released permits for).

[LynneSin]

92. I don't understand how someone can feed their dog or cat a vegan diet

I believe there are vegan foods out there for these animals. But if you allowed your cat or dog to roam free to find food it would go out there and eat meat. These animals are meant to eat meat.

[passiveporcupine]

93. As it is now

Most dog and cat diets have way too many carbs in them. They really should be on a high protein diet...much higher than dry animal food.

[PeaceNikki]

94. Yup. Everything you said. DU has this discussion at least once a year.

[Vattel]

95. Most hunters, like most people, are human supremacists.

[markpkessinger]

98. As someone who also grew up in rural PA in a family that included some hunters . . .

. . and who even hunted a bit himself when he was in his teens, I agree 100% with your OP. Local hunters would often complain about out-of-state "trophy" hunters, who would take, for example, a deer's head or antlers, and leave the rest to rot. There was a very strong ethic of eating whatever one killed on a hunt, or at the very least, making sure that someone made use of the animal for food. But to shoot an animal and just leave its carcass behind was seen as a cardinal sin!

(BTW, I grew up in Clinton County, near Lock Haven. What part of the state do you hail from?)

[LynneSin]

120. I'm originally from Perry County

but we had a farm up in Lycoming near the border by Columbia and Sullivan. Grandfather was a game commissioner up in Tioga.

Ironically I gave up the country for city living in Delaware

[markpkessinger]

123. And I gave it up to live in NYC . . .

. . . came here right out of college in '83.

[LynneSin]

134. I'd love to live in NYC

should have done it right out college. Now it's too expensive.

[markpkessinger]

148. It has been interesting to have a foot in both worlds, so to speak . . .

. . . I still have many family members, with whom I am very close, in Pennsylvania. In fact, two of my siblings and their families live in the very same town I grew up in, one of them in the same house I grew up in. I've often found myself, over the years, in a role of explaining rural culture to urbanites, and urban culture to friends and family in rural PA!

[melman]

102. Unrec

Not buying it. I am against all hunting and all hunters.

[darkangel218]

108. +1

[FourScore]

105. And baiting is usually illegal except under certain controlled circumstances.

Just thought I'd throw that in there since that's how they got Cecil the Lion.

Thanks for the excellent OP, LynneSin! I'm from a hunting family, too, and have often said the same thing to people.

Recommend.

[snort]

117. Perhaps the good dentist should be made to

eat the lion. All of it. Every edible part. Lion loaf again? Yeah, Bon appetite, fuckhead. Don't kill it if you're not going to eat it.

[paleotn]

122. I completely agree....

....in my family, the lessons on hunting ethics were the same. If you can't eat it, don't shoot it. If you shoot it, you'd better damn well eat it. Dad grew up during the depression and absolutely hated waste of any kind. That was drummed into me and stuck, even though I don't hunt anymore. Not out of any dislike of hunting. I'm just not fond of getting up before dawn and freezing my keister off for hours in 20 degree weather. We just cull the chicken flock on occasion and thank those wacky birds for all they've given us. Both food and endless humor.

[Flaxbee]

124. I understand what you're saying, but please don't call hunting a sport. There's nothing

sporting about it when the other creature has no clue s/he is involved in some sort of game that will end in death for one of them.

Big game and trophy hunting is, in all its forms, an abomination and should be banned in its entirety, worldwide.

People who drag a six pack out to the the deer stand and can't fucking aim but just shoot randomly and wound animals with guns or goddamn crossbows are sick, vile, mentally ill individuals.

If you are responsible, a good shot, cause no SUFFERING, and use what you kill other than as a goddamn wall decoration, I can tolerate it. If you need it, I can accept that. And I agree - responsible hunting is much better than the atrocities of factory farming and slaughter houses.

But please, it isn't a "sport".

[Skittles]

126. CORRECT

they are COWARDS

[sorcrow]

125. I may have skipped a few responses

I may have skipped a few responses, but mister dentist is not a hunter, he's an a**hole and and a cheating cheater.

Crow

[The Jungle 1]

132. Real hunting

Hunting is a grand sport. Now calm down and listen.

Shooting an animal that stands there and allows you to walk up is not hunting. Example, killing Moose is not hunting. There are many animals that have no fear of humans. Killing them is not hunting. It is stupid unless you need food. That tooth butcher probably walked up and the lion never moved. He killed that animal but that is not hunting.

Pigeon shoots are not hunting.

Bottom line, if you are not going to eat what you hunt then it is a waste of God's bounty.

[sybylla]

135. You have described my family to a tee.

The only exception is that my mother and I also hunted. The last couple of years I have not been able to, and I miss being in the woods very much.

Every time I hear about avian flu or swine flu, I wish I had a freezer full of venison, bear, squirrel, rabbit and grouse. It's a much more humane and economical source of meat.

I have a cousin, though, who made a couple of mil in his own business. He's traveled all over the world to shoot exotics and mount them for his den. I've always been disturbed by the mentality that kills for the sake if killing and nothing more.

I agree with you that most hunters are not like this asshole in MN. Unfortunately, they are common enough.

[underpants]

137. Having married into a family of hunters I fully agree

My father and brother in law are avid hunters and very responsible. And everything I have seen from their fellow hunters reflects the same.

My father in law subsistence hunted fished and trapped as a kid. He left school somewhere around 8tg grade (we think) to work everyday getting food for his 17 brothers and sisters. Yes 17 - 15 survived to teen years. His mother was basically pregnant for 20 years. Such as it was back then. Having kids added mouths to feed but it also increased the workforce. This was "in the hollow" Virginia - Shenandoah Valley. Both of his children have college degrees. I currently on vacation at a beach front condo courtesy of my brother in law who is wildly successful through his own efforts.

I still have an orange Hunters forthe Hungry cap that my FIL gave me. Yes they kill deer that they aren't going to eat but they pay a fee at the weigh station and donate it to this program to get actual food the those who need it.

States regulate the respective herds and they do a really good job of it. In fact they over protect in most cases.

My BIL learned hunting and fishing from my FIL, he is a notch or two below world class in both. Never misses. Rifle or bow. Drop this guy anywhere, give him a weapon, tell him what is in season, and he'll get it. Both of them managed their own hunting area for 20+ years near their home. He now has another property. He manages it. He knows every deer and when the herd needs to be changed. Like everyone I have met through them in the hunting world they are foremost ENVIRONMENTALISTS - they don't hunt out the land they want it there for others to hunt for years to come.

Tuesday night was "burger night" here at the beach. Elk burger from high altitude Colorado.

[Skittles]

141. I will never understand anyone who finds killing to be entertainment

[Snobblevitch]

146. I read the post to which you replied and the OP and nowhere in either post did I see the word

"entertainment".

[raouldukelives]

139. I am always amazed at the level of outrage for cruelty to animals.

Like you said, unless you are a vegan, or even more importantly, not a Wall St aider or abetter, then you can't really cast too hefty a stone.

That isn't to say they shouldn't be angry about it. Just that one should be careful they themselves aren't a primary driver for not only the horrible deaths of billions of animals, but actual extinction for them as well.

I would imagine that dentist hit the trifecta on that one. Kills beautiful animals for fun, invests in the most heinous businesses and business people that have ever existed and gobbles down only the tastiest portions of any animal he eats.

[leftyladyfrommo]

145. Hunters in Missouri

Do a whole lot for wildlife conservation and protection. They work closely with the Missouri Department of Conservation preserve and protect habitat.

Mo. Has great parks and wildlife areas.

[roamer65]

147. I have no problem with hunting for food.

Reality is that meat has become VERY expensive in stores and I know of many folks who hunt to feed their families. I don't even have a problem with someone who hunts then donates it to less fortunate people for consumption.

I damn well have a problem with trophy hunting. I think it should be banned worldwide and poachers should be jailed for extensive prison terms.