Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 12:00 PM Jul 2015

How many of the hunters hunt only for food??

How many of them hunt only to obtain free/fresh meat, but do not greatly enjoy killing??? How many do you think go out there in the woods and apologize or even shed a tear when pulling the trigger?? Don't fool yourself!

I'm so sick of the "I'm hunting only for food" meme.

249 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
How many of the hunters hunt only for food?? (Original Post) darkangel218 Jul 2015 OP
A lot. Most, in fact. Oneironaut Jul 2015 #1
I don't eat meat, and I'm not talking about farm animals ( which is also wrong) darkangel218 Jul 2015 #5
Are you a vegan? If not you are in the cycle when you eat milk, cheese, butter, eggs etc. jwirr Jul 2015 #21
I am. Haven't even touched milk or eggs in months. darkangel218 Jul 2015 #33
Then you truly have stepped out of the cycle. I do not condemn that - in fact good for you. But it jwirr Jul 2015 #47
Actually, it's not very difficult at all to be vegetarian. HERVEPA Jul 2015 #105
No, its not that difficult. darkangel218 Jul 2015 #114
In months? Texasgal Jul 2015 #242
No guilt trips about buying meat over the counter, alright? Paladin Jul 2015 #18
Bullshit, most of it is for sport or a hobby. nt Logical Jul 2015 #228
Any hunting I do anymore is limited to what I can do on my own property (birds) tularetom Jul 2015 #2
Most hunters do hunt and eat what they hunt, same as people who fish still_one Jul 2015 #3
My question is, do you believe they don't enjoy it??? darkangel218 Jul 2015 #6
For both. Incidentally I am a vegetarian, but as long as hunters still_one Jul 2015 #9
I have a problem with more than just trophy hunters. darkangel218 Jul 2015 #38
we disagree. still_one Jul 2015 #65
Thats fine. darkangel218 Jul 2015 #68
so what? So long as they hunt ethically, no foul. Adrahil Jul 2015 #132
Ethically?? darkangel218 Jul 2015 #134
WE live as a PART of nature... Adrahil Jul 2015 #140
Things in nature kill each other. Except we are on the top of the food chain. darkangel218 Jul 2015 #145
Being at the top of the food chain makes no difference. Adrahil Jul 2015 #153
It makes a lot of difference. darkangel218 Jul 2015 #155
Your hope is unlikely to be fulfilled. Adrahil Jul 2015 #157
Hunting will not become illegal in Minnesota anytime soon. Snobblevitch Jul 2015 #202
Sorry, dark. You still kill... Eleanors38 Jul 2015 #154
I have concerns , but why not start with what we can stop?? darkangel218 Jul 2015 #160
I like meat Telcontar Jul 2015 #209
I have to agree. nilesobek Jul 2015 #146
What if he ate the lion? AllFieldsRequired Jul 2015 #59
no offense, but that is bullshit argument, because that is NOT what happened, and NOT why people still_one Jul 2015 #70
But someone said if you eat what you hunt, etc. So all I am saying is you can AllFieldsRequired Jul 2015 #75
People do not eat big game animals. That is NOT a rationalization, that is fact. Your view that still_one Jul 2015 #123
Oddly enough, I fish just to catch fish. I release all of the fish I catch, MineralMan Jul 2015 #10
How would you feel if a higher species would play catch and release with us? darkangel218 Jul 2015 #39
What higher species are you thinking of. MineralMan Jul 2015 #58
If it existed. How would you feel? darkangel218 Jul 2015 #67
It doesn't exist. MineralMan Jul 2015 #69
I asked you hypothetically. darkangel218 Jul 2015 #76
I don't answer hypothetical questions that don't make sense. MineralMan Jul 2015 #78
It does make sense, and you understood my question perfectly. darkangel218 Jul 2015 #81
It's a perfectly valid question and youa re being obtuse by refusing to answer. HERVEPA Jul 2015 #108
It's not a perfectly valid question, and I won't answer. MineralMan Jul 2015 #117
I support you 100%. n/t cherokeeprogressive Jul 2015 #235
Have you ever checked the lake one day after a bass tournament? I guarantee you'll see dead B Calm Jul 2015 #54
I never keep fish in a livewell. I use circle hooks, and MineralMan Jul 2015 #57
Good for you! I use my needle nose and pinch the barb down. In Manitoba it's the law to fish B Calm Jul 2015 #60
For fly fishing, I use barbless hooks, always. MineralMan Jul 2015 #64
I have a small farm pond stocked with trophy fish. It's strictly catch and release. If you are B Calm Jul 2015 #71
Thanks. I haven't been in IN for years, though. MineralMan Jul 2015 #77
I been fishing northern Minnesota waters for almost 40 years. Had B Calm Jul 2015 #83
Cool. I fish mostly around the metro area here. MineralMan Jul 2015 #84
Does it matter? NutmegYankee Jul 2015 #17
Most hunters I know,and myself are pretty much indifferent Go Vols Jul 2015 #35
Living in a hunting community, LWolf Jul 2015 #73
Well, it's the pleasure principal all over again... Eleanors38 Jul 2015 #139
Of course they enjoy it. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2015 #232
I like catching fish d_r Jul 2015 #80
I agree Jim Beard Jul 2015 #4
More than you'd think, actually. MineralMan Jul 2015 #7
I hunt for more reasons than "only for food" GusBob Jul 2015 #8
Human beings have a long history of hunting. Maedhros Jul 2015 #22
"Hightness, awareness and excitement" .. darkangel218 Jul 2015 #41
I get it - hunting is not for you. Maedhros Jul 2015 #46
Bagged a deer. what a lovely term. HERVEPA Jul 2015 #112
I avoid "bagging" deer if possible. Cuts down on the cooling process. Eleanors38 Jul 2015 #150
Thanks for the typical insensitive response HERVEPA Jul 2015 #161
What's so insensitive? I do bag up to15 dove in a day. It's practical. Eleanors38 Jul 2015 #171
Schmuck HERVEPA Jul 2015 #177
Heiffer dust. Eleanors38 Jul 2015 #180
And you eat 15 doves in a day??? darkangel218 Jul 2015 #181
He's an ass. Just trying to bait. HERVEPA Jul 2015 #201
Thanks. I won't reply in this thread anymore. darkangel218 Jul 2015 #203
yet you did reply 5 more times Kali Jul 2015 #234
No, I spread them out over 2 - 3 meals; they are small but rich. Eleanors38 Jul 2015 #208
Everything's better.with a smidgeon of pigeon! Orrex Jul 2015 #225
A gob of squab! nt pinboy3niner Jul 2015 #226
That was excellent. Orrex Jul 2015 #249
Pigeons (or rock dove) are legal during dove season in Texas, and are quite good. Eleanors38 Jul 2015 #248
It taps into something deep in our DNA... Adrahil Jul 2015 #135
LOL, try to explain it. Should be entertaining. nt Logical Jul 2015 #229
I just fulled myself...... quickesst Jul 2015 #11
There's a lot of space between the starving honest woodsman hunting to feed his family and Brickbat Jul 2015 #12
Only things I hunt down... Xyzse Jul 2015 #13
I also don't apologize or shed a tear when I rip a tomato from the vine Shrek Jul 2015 #14
Are you vegan? n/t tammywammy Jul 2015 #15
she claims she is Kali Jul 2015 #195
I notice she also hates not being correct about everything xmas74 Jul 2015 #210
oh yeah Kali Jul 2015 #224
When I called her out on it being a flamebait OP xmas74 Jul 2015 #227
she does generate LOT of clicks Kali Jul 2015 #231
The spirit of Margaret Thatcher? xmas74 Jul 2015 #236
It only fits her Texasgal Jul 2015 #240
I went to school with kids who hunted for food to feed their families. xmas74 Jul 2015 #16
It is an old Native American tradition to kneel down after a kill and thank the creator AND the jwirr Jul 2015 #19
In most areas natural predators have been eliminated or driven away. Maedhros Jul 2015 #23
I know that but in NE MN we reintroduced the wolves. We hear them howling around out little farm jwirr Jul 2015 #25
Actually, that sounds utterly delightful. Daemonaquila Jul 2015 #27
Nature if you give it a chance is wonderful. In all the depressing mess we live in right now jwirr Jul 2015 #31
Wolves are coming back in Oregon as well. Maedhros Jul 2015 #34
Well I can see the ranchers point because they have herds too large to put in the barn at night. We jwirr Jul 2015 #52
I do as well. Maedhros Jul 2015 #102
Well, accordign t othe OP, we could just replace all of them with mink. Scootaloo Jul 2015 #172
I care not one whit what this OP has to say. Maedhros Jul 2015 #176
! Kali Jul 2015 #197
Exactly Runningdawg Jul 2015 #62
It is an old and valuable tradition. I am so glad my son-in-laws and grandchildren and grest jwirr Jul 2015 #66
Aho Runningdawg Jul 2015 #86
Do you get nosebleeds at that altitude on your high horse? hobbit709 Jul 2015 #20
+1 Go Vols Jul 2015 #37
We didn't have to go in the woods, had cows, pigs, bunnies, chickens, no trigger needed for chickens snooper2 Jul 2015 #24
We do that also. Four of our families - about 31 people work together to provide food for ourselves jwirr Jul 2015 #42
Yep Go Vols Jul 2015 #43
Get over your silly assumptions. Daemonaquila Jul 2015 #26
You being a hunter explains every single word in your post. darkangel218 Jul 2015 #28
I have a friend who took a picture and posted it on Facebook. xmas74 Jul 2015 #96
Sure they "live off of it" darkangel218 Jul 2015 #103
He's not a professional hunter. xmas74 Jul 2015 #129
OMG, you have no idea what you're talking about. Daemonaquila Jul 2015 #130
Go on and defend HUNTING and KILLING wild animals all you want. darkangel218 Jul 2015 #133
You're proving you have no knowledge, only hatred, of hunting. Daemonaquila Jul 2015 #106
Yes, hatred of hunting. darkangel218 Jul 2015 #125
Thanks for finally admitting you have no interest in facts. Daemonaquila Jul 2015 #149
Oh and BTW, darkangel218 Jul 2015 #30
I'll say to you the same thing I say to Christians who despise gay marriage: Maedhros Jul 2015 #40
I like that response. Go Vols Jul 2015 #45
The OP, who is now on my ignore list, is just like those Christians who claim Maedhros Jul 2015 #50
Consider it mutual. darkangel218 Jul 2015 #53
Of course you do, hunter to the hunter. darkangel218 Jul 2015 #51
lol Go Vols Jul 2015 #89
I have no problem with that. Free speech. darkangel218 Jul 2015 #90
When a cow kills a human, should it apologize? Orrex Jul 2015 #29
Cows kill humans for fun, then take pictures with their kill? darkangel218 Jul 2015 #32
Then you're moving your goalposts. Orrex Jul 2015 #44
Those who take pictures with their kill do it because they're proud of what they just did. darkangel218 Jul 2015 #48
And now you're misrepresenting my statement. Orrex Jul 2015 #74
Humans are ( or supposed to be ) smarter than other species. darkangel218 Jul 2015 #79
Nope, that's called special pleading. Orrex Jul 2015 #93
You don't assume "moral wrongness" in someone enjoying taking an animal's life??? darkangel218 Jul 2015 #95
Explain to me how you know that your beliefs are based on objective fact. Orrex Jul 2015 #162
"Typical for me"? So now you resort to personal attacks to try to make your point?/ darkangel218 Jul 2015 #166
It's not a personal attack; it's a demonstrable fact Orrex Jul 2015 #223
! Kali Jul 2015 #182
I can't speak for other states, Blue_In_AK Jul 2015 #36
I'm so glad I posted this thread. Many came out of the woodwork darkangel218 Jul 2015 #49
What true colors? xmas74 Jul 2015 #158
I was raised in the country as well. darkangel218 Jul 2015 #159
I'm not missing the point xmas74 Jul 2015 #164
Seriously?? darkangel218 Jul 2015 #173
I've been here for a very long time. xmas74 Jul 2015 #190
I could care less for your imaginarry validation. darkangel218 Jul 2015 #192
I think you do. xmas74 Jul 2015 #198
You "think" wrong. darkangel218 Jul 2015 #199
And you replied again. xmas74 Jul 2015 #206
Yet you posted again. darkangel218 Jul 2015 #207
Why? xmas74 Jul 2015 #212
Yah right! Nt darkangel218 Jul 2015 #213
You wrote a flamebait OP xmas74 Jul 2015 #217
No, i did not. darkangel218 Jul 2015 #219
Go for it. xmas74 Jul 2015 #221
! Kali Jul 2015 #233
Lol! xmas74 Jul 2015 #237
Jury results fadedrose Jul 2015 #211
It's so rare that I'm reported on. xmas74 Jul 2015 #214
Wow... Thank you. darkangel218 Jul 2015 #215
curious what the alerter wrote for the complaint Kali Jul 2015 #230
I suspect it was blank. xmas74 Jul 2015 #238
I think besides the usual reason fadedrose Jul 2015 #245
How many of them NEED to hunt for food? guillaumeb Jul 2015 #55
How many workers in abattoirs hang body parts on their walls for decoration? Tierra_y_Libertad Jul 2015 #56
Thousands and thousands of hunters hunt only for food. Sissyk Jul 2015 #61
How many of those thousands of thousands do have pics and souvenirs from their hunting trips?? darkangel218 Jul 2015 #72
I don't count them, so I don't know. Sissyk Jul 2015 #82
Yah, and drink and throw BBQ parties afterwords. darkangel218 Jul 2015 #85
So thatt, what? Sissyk Jul 2015 #87
I don't hang around them. darkangel218 Jul 2015 #91
Good you don't hang around them.. Sissyk Jul 2015 #94
Food and excitement. darkangel218 Jul 2015 #97
Where did I admit "they" enjoy it? Sissyk Jul 2015 #98
Lmao!!!! darkangel218 Jul 2015 #99
Well, you are free to believe what you want. Sissyk Jul 2015 #107
Go for it, I agree with you. To each their own. darkangel218 Jul 2015 #110
I'm going to a fish fry this weekend. xmas74 Jul 2015 #175
Good times, and good eating! Sissyk Jul 2015 #178
Thanks! xmas74 Jul 2015 #193
I suspect most people eat what they kill RandySF Jul 2015 #63
Are you a vegetarian? I ask because factory farming is far more inhumane than hunting. PeaceNikki Jul 2015 #88
Yes I am. darkangel218 Jul 2015 #92
Yes, I do say. For many the thrill comes from connecting with nature, PeaceNikki Jul 2015 #100
Connecting to nature, by killing wild animals?? darkangel218 Jul 2015 #101
Yes. By hunting. Ever play hide & seek? Hunting is a lot more than the 'kill'. PeaceNikki Jul 2015 #104
Yes I played hide and seek, but didn't kill innocent lives in the process. darkangel218 Jul 2015 #109
But you keep ignoring the rest of what I said. Factory farming is FAR FAR more inhumane. PeaceNikki Jul 2015 #116
Yes, I do. Because piggly wiggly will still grow, slaughter and sell farm meat regardless darkangel218 Jul 2015 #120
Your "FYI" statement would be illegal and unethical and nothing any hunter I know would do. PeaceNikki Jul 2015 #126
Yet it happens , due to many factors. darkangel218 Jul 2015 #128
I get that 'it happens', but it's illegal and unethical to not 'finish them off'. PeaceNikki Jul 2015 #137
One of the biggest assholes from high school eventually went to work for DNR. xmas74 Jul 2015 #204
Of the ones who kill lions? Spirochete Jul 2015 #111
Of the ones who kill for "fun", " excitement" and "sport". darkangel218 Jul 2015 #113
So much more respectable to be totally hands-off and leave the dirty work to factory farms, right? PeaceNikki Jul 2015 #118
Factory farms will never stop or at least not in near future. darkangel218 Jul 2015 #122
If hunters didn't hunt and eat the meat, the demand for factory farmed meat would be greater. PeaceNikki Jul 2015 #124
You honestly believe that?? That hunters keep the meat farming industry in place??? darkangel218 Jul 2015 #127
That's not what I said. PeaceNikki Jul 2015 #138
Thats is what you implied. darkangel218 Jul 2015 #143
You think hunters are bad and factory farms are good? PeaceNikki Jul 2015 #156
I never said factory farms are good. What I said was hunting won't stop factory farms darkangel218 Jul 2015 #168
It sucks when people twist your words, doesn't it? PeaceNikki Jul 2015 #174
And hunters are not going away any time soon. Sissyk Jul 2015 #163
None of them do Spirochete Jul 2015 #119
No shit. darkangel218 Jul 2015 #121
I don't mind if hunters enjoy the effort and skill of hunting well. aikoaiko Jul 2015 #115
Strange in a way, I enjoy much more the actual hooking & catching of fish than shooting a deer... Eleanors38 Jul 2015 #165
The fact that they also ENJOY hunting is beside the point. Adrahil Jul 2015 #131
Healthy ecology my ass. darkangel218 Jul 2015 #136
You can kill directly (hunting) or indirectly (agriculture). What's your choice? Eleanors38 Jul 2015 #141
Agriculture" ( I guess you mean animal farms" will never go away. darkangel218 Jul 2015 #147
No, whatever grew YOUR food. Don't dodge. You kill to eat. Eleanors38 Jul 2015 #167
Factory farmed animals suffer their entire lives. Every minute. Forever. n/t gollygee Jul 2015 #170
Yup. Why anyone would literally prefer meat eaters consume factory farmed meat over hunting is PeaceNikki Jul 2015 #218
You have no idea you are talking about. Adrahil Jul 2015 #142
Look up what happens when hunters only injure and the animal suffers for weeks darkangel218 Jul 2015 #152
Wounded animals are a shame.... Adrahil Jul 2015 #183
Don't hunt quaker bill Jul 2015 #144
And many die in agonizing deaths , over weeks at a time. darkangel218 Jul 2015 #148
I have not seen that quaker bill Jul 2015 #241
I've known people who hunt only for food gollygee Jul 2015 #151
Same here. xmas74 Jul 2015 #186
I did subsistence hunting and fishing for 12 years Scootaloo Jul 2015 #169
Do you honestly think majority of hunters go hungry if they don't hunt? darkangel218 Jul 2015 #179
I don't know what they do. I'm not them. Scootaloo Jul 2015 #184
Then you cant refute what majority of hunters do, which is killing for sport/fun darkangel218 Jul 2015 #187
I haven't seen you support this thesis anywhere in the thread. Scootaloo Jul 2015 #188
I'm well qualified to judge unnecessary killings and tortures just by having a heart. darkangel218 Jul 2015 #191
No, they'd consume more factory farm meat which is far worse. PeaceNikki Jul 2015 #185
Factory farming will not stop any time soon. darkangel218 Jul 2015 #189
So we should encourage people to consume more factory farmed meat as opposed to hunting? PeaceNikki Jul 2015 #196
My father did JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #194
I like fresh game Telcontar Jul 2015 #200
Very few. RebelOne Jul 2015 #205
taking pride in hunting and slaying game in no less ethical or more unnatural than taking pride in arely staircase Jul 2015 #216
Yah, because animals and tomatoes are obd and the same!! darkangel218 Jul 2015 #220
they are both sources of energy nt arely staircase Jul 2015 #243
C- topic is too easy Kali Jul 2015 #222
Definitely not a classic. xmas74 Jul 2015 #239
I honestly can not answer that question. malokvale77 Jul 2015 #244
The hunting my son and I engage in is for food. ileus Jul 2015 #246
When I was little, my father hunted a couple times a year and we ate what he shot. AtomicKitten Jul 2015 #247

Oneironaut

(5,461 posts)
1. A lot. Most, in fact.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 12:03 PM
Jul 2015

If you eat meat, someone is killing that fish or animal for you, and sometimes not humanely. At least I know that an animal I kill was not tortured.

I hate killing. I just understand that buying meat from an industry that does the killing doesn't absolve you of the responsibility.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
5. I don't eat meat, and I'm not talking about farm animals ( which is also wrong)
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 12:07 PM
Jul 2015

I'm pretty sure you understood exactly who I was referring to!

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
33. I am. Haven't even touched milk or eggs in months.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 01:38 PM
Jul 2015

No need for it. And I feel a lot happier and healthier without consuming animal products.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
47. Then you truly have stepped out of the cycle. I do not condemn that - in fact good for you. But it
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 01:50 PM
Jul 2015

is not for everyone. It is not easy being a vegetarian of any kind. My sister tried and got very sick because knowing how to get enough protein into your diet is not easy.

 

HERVEPA

(6,107 posts)
105. Actually, it's not very difficult at all to be vegetarian.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 03:32 PM
Jul 2015

More difficult but still not that difficult to be vegan.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
114. No, its not that difficult.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 03:39 PM
Jul 2015

You just have to know how to manage. Changing diets takes time. I lapsed twice , but eventually I learned how to manage it.

And I never looked back after.

Paladin

(28,202 posts)
18. No guilt trips about buying meat over the counter, alright?
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 12:56 PM
Jul 2015

I no longer hunt, mainly because of the overwhelming number of right-wing assholes who participate in the practice. Another thing I realize: all things considered for most peoples' situations, there is nothing more pricey than meat you bring home from a hunt. Prime filet mignons are an absolute bargain, compared to what venison backstrap costs most people.

tularetom

(23,664 posts)
2. Any hunting I do anymore is limited to what I can do on my own property (birds)
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 12:06 PM
Jul 2015

But I also shoot the occasional coyote or rattlesnake in order to protect our chickens and pets (and ourselves in the case of the snakes).

I don't necessarily enjoy it but I don't like burying my dogs or cats because they got torn apart by a coyote.

still_one

(91,950 posts)
3. Most hunters do hunt and eat what they hunt, same as people who fish
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 12:06 PM
Jul 2015

If you eat meat, then you are having someone else do the killing for you

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
6. My question is, do you believe they don't enjoy it???
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 12:09 PM
Jul 2015

Fishing is called a "sport" and an "enjoyment" activity. They don't do it just to catch fish, they LIKE catching and killing them!

still_one

(91,950 posts)
9. For both. Incidentally I am a vegetarian, but as long as hunters
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 12:15 PM
Jul 2015

Use it as food, and not exclusively for trophies or sport, I have no problem with that

The dentist who killed the lion is demented. "Big game" animals are not hunted for food, and are endangered species to boot

You can slam people like him all day, and I will join in the slamming

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
38. I have a problem with more than just trophy hunters.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 01:43 PM
Jul 2015

If someone killed strictly because they needed something to eat, and would starve otherwise, I would understand. But majority of hunters hunt mainly for the THRILL. The meat is just a bonus.

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
140. WE live as a PART of nature...
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 04:14 PM
Jul 2015

Things in nature kill each other ALL THE TIME. We are animals. It's silly, in my view, as viewing ourselves as being entirely above nature.

By ethically I mean:

1) Having an eye towards conservation. Maintaining healthy herds and healthy food stocks. In fact, WITHOUT hunting, this is often not possible, since natural predators are largely eliminated. Unculled deer herds can grow unchecked, destroying the local food sources, and condemning the herd and other animals to starvation. The population must be maintained at a level consitent with sustainability.

2) Without cruelty. A hunter should be proficient and well-equipped enough to ensure the kill is as rapid and painless as possible.

3) The animal is used whenever possible. Deer and feral pigs eaten, for example. If not by the hunter, then someone else. Killing of nuisance animals should be kept to the absolute minimum necessary.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
145. Things in nature kill each other. Except we are on the top of the food chain.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 04:22 PM
Jul 2015

We have a choice. We can chose if we want to kill or torture ( by wounding ) animals or not.

Not quiet the same.

Try harder.

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
153. Being at the top of the food chain makes no difference.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 04:29 PM
Jul 2015

Yes, we could CHOOSE not kill animals for food. But as I pointed out, there would be some consequences you may not like!

Also, I don't see that choosing no to kill and eat animals is somehow a morally superior choice. We are omnivores. Animals are, generally speaking, part of our diet. I do not see any moral superiority in not eating what we evolved to eat. I don't judge those who choose NOT to eat animals... do what you feel is right... but I do not agree.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
155. It makes a lot of difference.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 04:34 PM
Jul 2015

As much as I hate slaughter houses, at least they don't just the animals and leave them suffer in agonizing pain for months. Don't get me wrong, I don't defend farming animals for meat. But t least I know the intention of those doing is is only to feed the population. Unlike hunters, who think KILLING is a sport.

Hunting is wrong, and I hope it will be declared illegal sometime soon.

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
157. Your hope is unlikely to be fulfilled.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 04:37 PM
Jul 2015

But if it is. I hope you take the time observe the fawns starving and dying as a consequence of your position.

Though you STILL have no clarified why you think being at the top of the food chain makes a difference.

Lions are at the top of the food chain on the savanna, but I assume you don't deride them for hunting and killing?

Snobblevitch

(1,958 posts)
202. Hunting will not become illegal in Minnesota anytime soon.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 05:40 PM
Jul 2015

The voters in Minnesota passed a constitutional amendment guaranteeing the right to hunt and fish.

 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
154. Sorry, dark. You still kill...
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 04:31 PM
Jul 2015

You object to my blowing a hole through a deer, but have little concern about the farms you depend on blowing holes through entire ecosystems.

You can't dance around this fact: We all kill to eat. The rest is guilt and rather Americanized puritanical fears of pleasure.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
160. I have concerns , but why not start with what we can stop??
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 04:44 PM
Jul 2015

Stop hunting,. Then try to educate people in making better choices. Go vegetarian, if you can't be vegan. Meat proteins can easily be replaced. Let farms farm only for milk and eggs.

There are ways to change, but very few are willing to take the leap, since its so much easier to hide behind an excuse.

 

Telcontar

(660 posts)
209. I like meat
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 05:57 PM
Jul 2015

I don't have hangups about killing. It's in our genes. Fighting your genetic heritage is just flat out silly.

nilesobek

(1,423 posts)
146. I have to agree.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 04:23 PM
Jul 2015

At my previous job as a cashier the business was thee go-to place to grab stuff and fuel up before a hunting trip.

People would spend 200$ on gasoline, food, tobacco, energy drinks and whatnot. They are wearing 500$ camo zoot suits. Their trucks go between 30k and 60k in value and price. Those trucks are full of expensive guns starting at about 1500$ apiece on up.

Think about how many Angus bulls that hunters could purchase for that amount of money. I laugh when I get the subsistence hunting argument. Some of the hunters must be terrible at it because they strike out continually here. I'm not impressed. I'm not a hunter but a camper and I can go out to my camping area, about 70mi from here, sit down in my folding chair, and within an hour have deer and elk all around me while I drink beer quietly. These guys are trying to hard!

But I think that there's more than just thrill killing going on here. Quite a few hunters view it as a protected cultural practice that has reached the level of Holy Land status, and a reason to spend time with their sons on an outing. The only way to make changes is to talk to people about it, not shrinking away from the hunting crowd, thanks for that.

still_one

(91,950 posts)
70. no offense, but that is bullshit argument, because that is NOT what happened, and NOT why people
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 02:14 PM
Jul 2015

hunt "big game"

"big game" is not hunted for food, it is for trophies or pooching for Ivory etc.

AllFieldsRequired

(489 posts)
75. But someone said if you eat what you hunt, etc. So all I am saying is you can
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 02:18 PM
Jul 2015

make that excuse for anything.

Hunting and harvesting animals for food are very different.

Both are wrong, I suppose, but different.

Killing wild animals for any reason is wrong unless one is starving or in danger.

still_one

(91,950 posts)
123. People do not eat big game animals. That is NOT a rationalization, that is fact. Your view that
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 03:49 PM
Jul 2015

"killing wild animals for any reason is wrong", is not shared by the majority of people. Ducks and other fowl are wild animals, and whether they are "harvested", or obtained and consumed by hunters or killed by the slaughter house amounts to the same thing as far as the animal is concerned.

People can be vegetarians without consuming any animals. I am a vegetarian, but I do not have value judgements on others who eat meat, harvested or hunted.

As far as I am concerned overcrowding animals, feeding the antibiotics, and accelerating their growth process for consumption, only to be slaughter is worse in a lot of respects



MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
10. Oddly enough, I fish just to catch fish. I release all of the fish I catch,
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 12:17 PM
Jul 2015

and fish using techniques that assure that the fish I release will survive. However, the skills I have in angling could feed my family and my neighbors if push came to shove. Fishing is a skilled activity. Without practicing it, your catch will be small or nonexistent. If I ever need for fish for sustenance, I will be successful at it.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
39. How would you feel if a higher species would play catch and release with us?
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 01:44 PM
Jul 2015

Do you think the fish you catch ( I assume you use hooks in the process ) are happy?

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
81. It does make sense, and you understood my question perfectly.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 02:26 PM
Jul 2015

You wouldn't like it if someone did to you what you do to the fish. Catching and releasing may not kill them all, but tortures them

http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-in-entertainment/cruel-sports/fishing/

 

HERVEPA

(6,107 posts)
108. It's a perfectly valid question and youa re being obtuse by refusing to answer.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 03:34 PM
Jul 2015

Though you don't kill it, you are putting aan animal through torment for your own fun.
At least own that.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
117. It's not a perfectly valid question, and I won't answer.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 03:40 PM
Jul 2015

Do I put an animal through torment? Probably not so much. I've caught and released the same fish on the same day a few times, even. I like to fish. I like having the skills I could use to feed myself and others if necessary. Fishing isn't easy. It's a learned skill that requires practice.

I can also start a fire without matches, build a shelter, and capture small mammals and birds in traps. I'm capable of surviving in the wilderness. I learned those skills for the same reasons I have learned how to hunt and fish. Someday, it could save my life and the lives of other people. I also have advanced first aid skills, know all of the edible plants that are native to my area and most other parts of the country. I have studied those things and have practiced those skills as well.

But, I do not answer hypothetical questions that involve non-existent entities.

 

B Calm

(28,762 posts)
54. Have you ever checked the lake one day after a bass tournament? I guarantee you'll see dead
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 01:57 PM
Jul 2015

fish floating near the weigh in site. Sure they were alive when the angler weighed them in, but after the stress of being in a live well all day, taking pictures, etc etc, many of them don't make it.

 

B Calm

(28,762 posts)
60. Good for you! I use my needle nose and pinch the barb down. In Manitoba it's the law to fish
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 02:06 PM
Jul 2015

barbless.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
64. For fly fishing, I use barbless hooks, always.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 02:08 PM
Jul 2015

The circle hooks always end up at the corner of the jaw, and are easy to remove. Catch and release is how I fish, these days.

 

B Calm

(28,762 posts)
71. I have a small farm pond stocked with trophy fish. It's strictly catch and release. If you are
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 02:15 PM
Jul 2015

Ever in Indiana stop by anf fish.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
77. Thanks. I haven't been in IN for years, though.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 02:19 PM
Jul 2015

It's sort of off my normal travel patterns.

Here in Minnesota, I'm surrounded by fishing waters. In fact, my wife handed me a gift certificate for a half-day guide trip with one of the better guides around here. I'm looking forward to learning something from him. I haven't scheduled the trip, though, yet. I'll leave it to him where and what we fish for.

 

B Calm

(28,762 posts)
83. I been fishing northern Minnesota waters for almost 40 years. Had
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 02:28 PM
Jul 2015

a dear friend that lived on a small lake with no public access in Itaska county 60 miles nw of Grand Rapids. She had a 3 bedroom guest house and I could come up anytime I wanted no charge. She died this spring and her daughter took it over. If I ever hit the lottery I'll buy her out.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
84. Cool. I fish mostly around the metro area here.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 02:30 PM
Jul 2015

With a guide, though, I'll be on one of the rivers, I'm sure. I don't have a boat any longer.

NutmegYankee

(16,177 posts)
17. Does it matter?
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 12:54 PM
Jul 2015

Most of us eat meat and are therefore guilty of killing animals ourselves. We just don't actually do the butchering and therefore feel superior. Hunting is far more Eco friendly in that it's sustainable management of wild populations with very little carbon footprint.

Go Vols

(5,902 posts)
35. Most hunters I know,and myself are pretty much indifferent
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 01:40 PM
Jul 2015

about it.Killing a deer is the easy part,then comes the work of getting it out of the woods,getting it home and hanging it and then skinning and cutting it up...

Its far from fun and games,its work.

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
73. Living in a hunting community,
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 02:16 PM
Jul 2015

I'll say that it's part of the culture. They like their culture. They enjoy the family and multiple family trips that they make together on hunting trips, whether or not they got their tag, they will be one of the actual hunters, or they actually kill something.

I don't hunt, but I am not a vegetarian, and I know that wild game lives a better life, and has a better chance, than animals raised to slaughter.

In my area, there are plenty of small ranches raising grass fed animals that don't go to feed lots. They also spend their lives, for however long they live, in a hell of a lot better conditions than factory meat farming. That's where I get what meat I eat.

There are all kinds of hunters on that hunting spectrum, and some of them enjoy killing. Not all, though.

I work with a local man who raises a small number of hogs in addition to his day job. He loves those pigs. He cries when it's time to process them. I admit that I don't get that. I will say, though, that those who kill their own meat, whether wild or ranch-raised, tend to be more respectful as a whole, in my experience, than those that let others do the killing for them.

I also work with a man who fly fishes as a sport. He practices catch and release only. I've fished, although it's been a couple of decades. I ate what I caught, though.

I understand your aversion to both hunting and fishing. Doing either for food, though, even if it involves enjoyment, simply is not the same thing as trophy hunting. The motivation and enjoyment are simply not the same.

 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
139. Well, it's the pleasure principal all over again...
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 04:14 PM
Jul 2015

I enjoy hunting and eating what I hunt. When pulling the trigger, I am concentrating too much on making a killing shot to really "enjoy" it. So much depends on how you hold the rifle (if that is your weapon), squeeze the trigger, noting landmarks, and stopping the deer from walking by uttering a call, that I can't say I enjoy the moment. I CAN say that my heart is beating quite fast, my movements must be carefully controlled, and I am ready for the "pounce" or human equivalent. This is part of how humans began, and while you can certainly wish or train it away as an activity, the instincts and emotions are always there and nothing to be ashamed of.

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
232. Of course they enjoy it.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 07:11 PM
Jul 2015

It's very deeply-ingrained for a lot of humans. We evolved as predators (many omnivores are predators, actually). There's some deep-seated, instinctual triggers being tripped.

I hunted as a kid and young teenager, before losing all taste for it at about 14. There is a definite "thrill of the chase" involved. It's a bit creepy to experience, to be honest...but the evolutionary purpose for it is obvious.

d_r

(6,907 posts)
80. I like catching fish
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 02:24 PM
Jul 2015

I don't enjoy killing them.

I like eating them.

I wouldn't at all mind "I'll catch em, you clean em, I'll cook um." But somebody has to clean them.

 

Jim Beard

(2,535 posts)
4. I agree
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 12:07 PM
Jul 2015

I learned later in life to quit looking at birds as though they were in crosshairs. As I age, my appitite for meat has greatly diminished in a natural sort of way. I just simply do not have the desire for it anymore. Wish I had aquired these feelings years ago.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
7. More than you'd think, actually.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 12:14 PM
Jul 2015

Hunting to add meat to the freezer, and fishing, too, is widespread in much of the country. Here in Minnesota, it certainly is. As for apologizing or shedding a tear, that's more common than you'd think, too. I no longer hunt, but when I did, I always felt bad after killing an animal. I feel bad when I eat meat that an animal died, too. I'm aware of that always, and hunters are more aware than most people of the reality of eating meat.

Where I live, we have a large immigrant population of Hmong and Somali people. Hunting and fishing is a big part of their lives, in season, and they make maximum use of the results of their hunting and fishing. Hunting is also part of the lives of many others, and the meat that goes into the freezer helps balance out the budget for many families. Fishing, too, brings food to the table.

It's also a traditional activity for many. It ties people to their ancestry and the need their forbears had to get their own food. The skills and process of hunting has been passed down for generations in many families. In my family, the tradition is a long one, and the watchword is "Don't kill anything you aren't going to eat." Hunting fed my father's household as a youngster during the Depression, and when he was old enough, the rabbits, upland birds and fish he could obtain helped the family survive hard times. It's something that must be practiced if you're going to have success, so he taught his offspring how to hunt and fish, just in case they ever needed those skills. We ate everything we killed. Every time.

Not all hunters are like that Minnesota dentist. Most would condemn that kind of hunting and would never do it, even if they had an opportunity.

GusBob

(7,286 posts)
8. I hunt for more reasons than "only for food"
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 12:14 PM
Jul 2015

I would try to explain it but I reckon you aint interested

If I had to hunt "only for food" I would hunt all the time and shoot lots more game

 

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)
22. Human beings have a long history of hunting.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 01:09 PM
Jul 2015

Being out in nature, human vs. wild, has its own appeal. I last went hunting, seriously, when I was 12. I remember the heightened awareness, the excitement, the tactics of it. Never bagged a deer, though, but still enjoyed the experience.

 

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)
46. I get it - hunting is not for you.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 01:49 PM
Jul 2015

It's not for me, anymore, either. But I understand.

Try more understanding, and less moral grandstanding.

Your posts are worthless. Welcome to the ignore list.

 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
150. I avoid "bagging" deer if possible. Cuts down on the cooling process.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 04:27 PM
Jul 2015

But there are USDA-approved game bags to place the entire carcass in to discourage flies.

Kali

(54,990 posts)
234. yet you did reply 5 more times
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 07:32 PM
Jul 2015

keeping your word, as usual

does your utter lack of credibility ever bother you?

 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
208. No, I spread them out over 2 - 3 meals; they are small but rich.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 05:54 PM
Jul 2015

I cooked up 2 batches over a hot grill and served them to friends ar a local bar/coffee shop. Immediately consumed.

I prefer storing in a block of ice when I have enough accumulated. They keep for over a year or more. The most common dish is using half a pickled jalapenpo slice wrapped in jack cheese, wrapped in a boned 1/2 breast, wrapped in a bacon strip, held together by a toothpick, then cooked 12-13 mins a side over a medmium hot fire. No seasoning necessary. My ambition is to shoot a feral hog and do some bacon makin' au natural!
 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
135. It taps into something deep in our DNA...
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 04:08 PM
Jul 2015

I've never "hunted," but I did once go stalking (hunting without the actual taking of the animal), and it was a thrill.

quickesst

(6,280 posts)
11. I just fulled myself......
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 12:26 PM
Jul 2015

....with a good old scrambled egg and cheese sandwich. Didn't kill an animal for it, but I do feel a little remorse for the unborn chick. No, I don't. I kid, I kid, but if you are having trouble with understanding what responsible hunting is, there is a current thread explaining it very well posted by LynneSin. Probably a waste of time since by your demeanor in the OP, I doubt there would be any consideration in changing your mind. Let me say one thing. Take deer hunting for instance. Without it, deer would overpopulate leaving thousands to starvation and disease. Add to that their hunger would result in their scavenging from the garbage of rural and urban homes. The only way it would be better for them is if mankind had never made an appearance on this earth, but there is little, short of nuclear destruction that will change that. I doubt there would be any benefit to the deer either.

Brickbat

(19,339 posts)
12. There's a lot of space between the starving honest woodsman hunting to feed his family and
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 12:31 PM
Jul 2015

OMG SLAUGHTER. Insisting people apologize, feel guilty or not have fun when they're hunting is bizarre.

Xyzse

(8,217 posts)
13. Only things I hunt down...
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 12:34 PM
Jul 2015

Are damn crickets at night...

If one perchance gets inside the house, and makes a racket... I will hunt that thing down, mercilessly.

Spiders, I tend to catch and bring outside.
I just have no mercy towards crickets at this time.

So, my poor conscience is probably gone, as I have most likely killed Jiminy.

Shrek

(3,970 posts)
14. I also don't apologize or shed a tear when I rip a tomato from the vine
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 12:42 PM
Jul 2015

We eat other living things to survive.

That's just the way it works.

xmas74

(29,658 posts)
210. I notice she also hates not being correct about everything
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 05:57 PM
Jul 2015

and always has to have the last word. I made a roundabout comment to that extent and she accused me of posting nothing but flamebait and being a "hater". She also attempted to put out this whole thing about being so well-loved and respected here, insinuating more than most.

This is my first experience with her. I guess that's what happens when you take breaks from DU.

Kali

(54,990 posts)
224. oh yeah
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 06:44 PM
Jul 2015

projects like a republican (and she loves them over on DI, they are her good buddies. but she is on time out there and will be here again soon as well, if her pattern continues. despite many, many promises of leaving DU, she always returns)

her behavior reminds me of a 15 year old on a first bender

xmas74

(29,658 posts)
227. When I called her out on it being a flamebait OP
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 06:53 PM
Jul 2015

she said I needed to be alerted on for calling it flamebait.

You can make this stuff up.

Kali

(54,990 posts)
231. she does generate LOT of clicks
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 07:07 PM
Jul 2015

there have been some classics, usually self-deleted after a few hundred replies. my all-time favorite has to be the spirit of Margaret Thatcher.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022641298

xmas74

(29,658 posts)
236. The spirit of Margaret Thatcher?
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 08:23 PM
Jul 2015

Spirit always sounds so nice, like Casper the Friendly Ghost. Thatcher is a straight-up demon from the depths of hell.

Texasgal

(17,029 posts)
240. It only fits her
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 08:36 PM
Jul 2015

when her narrative is at stake.

I highly doubt she's a vegan, just like Alaska and her quicky RN degree which was BS from the beginning.

xmas74

(29,658 posts)
16. I went to school with kids who hunted for food to feed their families.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 12:48 PM
Jul 2015

At least a few of them wish their families had enough money to buy their groceries at the store. All the gardening, fishing, hunting and preserving of the bounty takes time. It's easier and faster to buy it.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
19. It is an old Native American tradition to kneel down after a kill and thank the creator AND the
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 01:00 PM
Jul 2015

animal for providing food. I have seen it done.

As for fresh meat - many now freeze the meat. And most Native hunters also give a portion of the meat to the elderly and disabled who cannot hunt for themselves.

Also if you live in an area like we do is it any better to let the herd get so large that they starve in the winter? It happens and it is a horrible way to die. Weakened until the wolves can attack any time they want. If the herd is culled they stay healthy and can run from the wolves.

I dislike the idea of hunting for fun only because there is no justification for that. Or at least not in the Native community.

 

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)
23. In most areas natural predators have been eliminated or driven away.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 01:11 PM
Jul 2015

Hunting is necessary to avoid population collapse from disease or starvation.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
25. I know that but in NE MN we reintroduced the wolves. We hear them howling around out little farm
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 01:20 PM
Jul 2015

at night. May sound crazy - but we actually like it.

 

Daemonaquila

(1,712 posts)
27. Actually, that sounds utterly delightful.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 01:27 PM
Jul 2015

I wish we had some here. But we do have owls at night, and the occasional bobcat.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
31. Nature if you give it a chance is wonderful. In all the depressing mess we live in right now
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 01:33 PM
Jul 2015

it is soothing to know that the wolves are back.

 

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)
34. Wolves are coming back in Oregon as well.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 01:40 PM
Jul 2015

Ranchers are none too happy about it, but I think it's a good thing.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
52. Well I can see the ranchers point because they have herds too large to put in the barn at night. We
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 01:56 PM
Jul 2015

just make sure that our animals are in shelter at night - have never lost any to wolves.

 

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)
176. I care not one whit what this OP has to say.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 04:57 PM
Jul 2015

She clearly is uninterested in meaningful discussion and is just playing outrage poker.

Runningdawg

(4,494 posts)
62. Exactly
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 02:07 PM
Jul 2015

I am getting older and don't hunt as much as I used to. I would never think about going out for food without asking the Creator for his guidance. Guidance in finding the food and guidance that my shot finds its target. My biggest concern is that I will wound an animal. I was taught and always leave a portion of the kill in the woods for the other animals. The 2nd portion goes to an elder. Only then does the meat come to MY table. ALL parts of the animal are used. I don't tan but I know many who do, they always receive the hide and brain. I drive predators away from my property but IF they repeatedly endanger my own animals and trapping live fails, I kill them as cleanly as possible. Even then, I give thanks to the Creator and find a place for what is usable.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
66. It is an old and valuable tradition. I am so glad my son-in-laws and grandchildren and grest
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 02:12 PM
Jul 2015

grandchildren are going to keep the tradition alive. We recognize our connection to all things living. Our dependence on all things.

hobbit709

(41,694 posts)
20. Do you get nosebleeds at that altitude on your high horse?
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 01:05 PM
Jul 2015

Hunting for food and hunting for trophies and bragging right are not the same thing.
I have no use for the latter.

 

snooper2

(30,151 posts)
24. We didn't have to go in the woods, had cows, pigs, bunnies, chickens, no trigger needed for chickens
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 01:12 PM
Jul 2015

pigs were kind of sad when shot them but filled the deep freezer, fed the family!

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
42. We do that also. Four of our families - about 31 people work together to provide food for ourselves
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 01:47 PM
Jul 2015

by gardening, gathering maple sugar, raise bees, hunting, fishing, raising small animals (would raise a cow or two but not enough room) and foraging. Most of us are low-income so all of this helps us. We do our own butchering, canning and freezing and other preparation. The waste from the animals provides our fertilizer and the chickens provide us with eggs. Any excess we have at the end of the season goes to people in need that we know.

Very little goes to waste. The whole family helps including the little kids who love being responsible. It is a family tradition.

Go Vols

(5,902 posts)
43. Yep
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 01:48 PM
Jul 2015

We would have a hog named "pork chop" and a calf named "meatloaf" every year that would feed us until the next year.

 

Daemonaquila

(1,712 posts)
26. Get over your silly assumptions.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 01:26 PM
Jul 2015

Virtually all hunters, including all of those I know personally (and I also am a hunter), are interested in the meat. Period. None of us take or put up trophies. We get fresh food for months at a time from a single deer, or sometimes another animal, such as wild hogs that tear up the land. We process the carcass sometimes at horribly late hours, and either cut it up for greater processing at a professional processing business, or to finish off processing and packing ourselves. Anything my friends and I don't use (as with roadkill, with game warden permission) goes to feed wildlife undergoing rehabilitation. Other hunters and game wardens also bring both roadkilled and illegally taken carcasses to the center to feed those animals. Occasionally a deer skin gets processed for use in clothing or furnishing.

The animals taken are either problems (wild hogs) or deer, which are overpopulated in the area, particularly axis deer which are an exotic species that have overrun the area and are crowding out the native whitetail population.

You think hunters don't think twice about pulling the trigger? That they aren't thankful, and that they don't apologize? Your biases are your problem, not hunters. All the hunters I know, including myself, have to swallow really hard before pulling that trigger. The biggest fear many of us have, especially those who haven't done it over decades, is that we will muff a shot and harm, but not instantly kill, an animal. I was taught to use a high neck shot by my mentor, which is a much harder shot than the conventional heart/lung target, but which is the best for a sure kill with massive spinal damage and extremely fast bleed out. You either hit or you miss, but you don't just wound a deer that might get away and die a slow and ugly death despite your best efforts at tracking it. We clean every usable bit off the carcass to avoid wasting. When I have venison in my freezer, I am acutely aware of where it came from, and none of it is wasted - that's a DUTY if you take a life for food.

Hunting isn't the avid sport followed by reckless idiots that so many people want to believe it is. There ARE trophy hunters and idiots who just want to shoot at things. They are not hunters, but murderers. A real hunter is out for healthy meat, often on a budget, to replace factory farmed food (do PLEASE explain how factory farming is more "humane" than a nearly instantaneous, clean kill on an animal that has lived its life quite fully in the wild). Others supplement grocery store food because they like wild meat, and they appreciate the skills they have been taught and do not want to lose them. I know people who hunt for the vast majority of their meat, and others who take a couple deer, and maybe a couple turkey, per year.

Don't make crap up about people and practices you apparently know nothing about. That's what the GOP and the teabaggers do. DUers should be better than that.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
28. You being a hunter explains every single word in your post.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 01:31 PM
Jul 2015

Let me ask you a simple question, do you have photos with your "kills"? And be honest in your answer.

xmas74

(29,658 posts)
96. I have a friend who took a picture and posted it on Facebook.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 03:08 PM
Jul 2015

A huge buck. He's also posted a few pics of coon, possum and turkeys. Every time he's posted the pics he's always said how thankful he was that he could feed his family through the winter. He hadn't hunted for years but after a layoff a family member gave him use of a rifle and some ammo. He posted because he was so happy that he would be able to save money on groceries when they needed to save the most. He also posted and tagged the family member so they could see how their simple loan helped so much.

He's in better shape now but still hunts, fishes and gardens. He also forages. He has learned how to can and does a great job preserving his food sources. He does it for a few reasons. One: the job he found pays half what he used to make. Two: He had a lot of debt to pay off, after his divorce. Three: He's a single dad with primary custody of four children. The kids help in the garden and fishing. The two oldest help forage. The oldest, his daughter, will hunt for the first time this fall.

It's not for everyone but they live off of what they hunt.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
103. Sure they "live off of it"
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 03:27 PM
Jul 2015

Since most professional hunters spend a fortune on gear/hunting supplies.

Sure, its all about saving money at the grocery store. Lmao!!!!

xmas74

(29,658 posts)
129. He's not a professional hunter.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 04:04 PM
Jul 2015

He's never actually purchased a weapon, since his father gave him his. His father is getting too old to hunt.

He purchases ammo but not that often. He's always been a good shot.

They do live off of what they grow, what they fish, what forage (such as nettle, kudzu, pawpaw, hawberries, wild blackberries and mushrooms) and what they hunt. His pantry is full of things he's canned and dehydrated and his freezer is full of fish and some meat. Last year he dug out a small root cellar and now keeps potatoes, apples, cabbages, onions and a couple of crocks that he's worked on his fermenting. He also keeps his wine that he makes down there, along with some lawn furniture to sit on during severe weather. His very old home doesn't include a basement so he has to make do.

Professional hunters are an entirely different game. My friend is a small town boy who does his best to save a buck or two.

 

Daemonaquila

(1,712 posts)
130. OMG, you have no idea what you're talking about.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 04:04 PM
Jul 2015

It would be hilarious if you weren't so fanatical about your world view being the truth.

None of the hunters I know spend squat on equipment. There are some weirdos who buy all kinds of unnecessary gear, clothing, tremendously expensive blinds, etc. Those are generally the guys who DO trophy hunt, and have a ton of money to sink into their dumb hobby, not your run of the mill hunter.

I shot my first deer with a borrowed rifle and one bullet, sitting in a decrepit home-built blind that was made from a discarded, damaged wooden shipping container (i.e. free), in ratty old jeans and work boots because I knew I'd be making a mess later if I got the deer. It was on a friend's ranch land - no leases or fees. I dragged the body out of the woods with no devices of any sort to make it easier. I put it in the back of an old truck that several hunters shared to keep the mess down to one vehicle. I drove out of that area to the area my teacher uses for skinning and gutting - a salvaged hook attached to a salvaged hand-crank winch mounted on a tree, with an old feed bucket to catch the guts and a handy tree stump for hatcheting a bone. Oh, and there was a nice "luxury" nearby - a HOSE to wash it all down. I used old kitchen knives to process the deer, and spent a whopping $5 on freezer paper and tape, and an old sharpie, to package my meat on the spot.

Yeah, that's a lot of expensive gear right there. Sure. That's how I did it then, and that's how the people I know do it. That, or even just driving an old farm jeep behind some brush in a good place, and waiting. My gun? I eventually bought a well-used one from a friend for a whopping $200. I suppose we splurge on that $1/bullet, which is all you should ever have to use. And on soap for washing our messy clothes - that's a huge expense. My 50+ pounds of meat cost about $6. If you work out the one-time cost of a gun, assuming a hunter owns their own rather than using someone else's, which is a lot more common than you think, against multiple animals, it's still much, much cheaper than even raising your own calf or other food animals.

So please, don't pretend you know about how hunters all buy pricey gear. That's for rich city folk who talk a big game, daydream while reading hunting mags, pay game ranches for single hunts or get pricey yearly hunting leases far away from home, and for whom it's really their sport, not a way of feeding their family. That's not your "average" hunter who keeps a freezer full of meat they shot themselves.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
133. Go on and defend HUNTING and KILLING wild animals all you want.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 04:06 PM
Jul 2015

Your right. Allow me to puke just at the thought in the meantime.

Have a nice afternoon.

 

Daemonaquila

(1,712 posts)
106. You're proving you have no knowledge, only hatred, of hunting.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 03:34 PM
Jul 2015

Nope, not one single photo. Never wanted one. Neither does the man who taught me. Neither do others I know. We take photos of LIVING animals and cherish them. We also eat animals we kill. The false dichotomy you're trying so desperately to create doesn't fit with reality, rather like the fundies trying to deny global warming because that's what their ideology calls for, and science and reality be damned.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
125. Yes, hatred of hunting.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 03:56 PM
Jul 2015

Damn right, and I'm proud of it!

And how can you say you "cherish animals", when you shoot them, killing them or leaving them injured suffering for days?? Really curious of your answer.

 

Daemonaquila

(1,712 posts)
149. Thanks for finally admitting you have no interest in facts.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 04:27 PM
Jul 2015

No point in talking to people who have created a fantasy to hate, to make themselves feel superior. Do explain how your reasoning process differs from a Westboro fanatic who KNOWS they're morally superior to one of those homo-sinners who's going to buuuuurn in hellllll, because GAWD said so.

Yep, I cherish animals. I also know biology, fully understand the concepts of predator and prey, rehabilitate animals who eat other animals, and have no problem with the idea that we are omnivores whose bodies are adapted to eat BOTH animal and non-animal material. I have no problem with being just another animal in the food chain, knowing that I too will be eaten someday (at least by bugs). I would no more decide that it's wrong for me or anyone else to eat meat, than I would wag a finger at a lion or a hawk for eating another animal.

My intellect allows me to cherish animals and my intellectual honesty allows me to see them as my natural food source. It also allows me to decide how and when I will choose to eat my natural food sources, and whether I want to eat an animal that was mistreated in a factory farm and fed unhealthy things for it and for me, or whether I would rather take the personal responsibility for killing one as quickly and humanely as possible, which has had a natural life in the wild. Most of all, my intellectual honesty doesn't lead me to put myself, as apparently you have, in a different category than the rest of the animals, one that can't possibly go catch and eat another creature because it's automatically "wrong" to do what animals do every day.

As for "leaving them injured suffering for days?" What conversation have YOU been having? Hunters don't do that. A hunter's greatest fear, when learning the craft, is causing that. A hunter's thought, as she pulls the trigger, is to be certain that the shot will be true. A hunter will ensure that in the worst case, worst error, that animal will be found with all speed and dispatched rather than leaving it to suffer. Once again, your imagined demon that you've labeled "hunter" is completely out of step with reality.

So, go learn some biology. Go educate yourself about hunters and hunting with something other than a PETA video. I'd invite you to go volunteer at a wildlife rehabilitation facility and actually LEARN something about animals, but actually, I hope you don't because the last thing a hurt animal, especially a carnivore, needs, is someone pretending to care for it who can't handle feeding it a live animal or killing one to feed it when it's necessary.

 

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)
40. I'll say to you the same thing I say to Christians who despise gay marriage:
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 01:45 PM
Jul 2015

If you are against it, then don't engage in it. But don't condemn others for doing it.

 

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)
50. The OP, who is now on my ignore list, is just like those Christians who claim
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 01:54 PM
Jul 2015

that homosexuals are all predatory pedophiles.

The OP has a vision in their head of hunters as morally bankrupt, murderous sociopaths taking joy in the suffering of animals. No matter how much others may explain differently, the OP is going to cling to that vision because it makes her feel morally superior to hunters.

Hierarchical self-esteem is a hell of a drug.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
53. Consider it mutual.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 01:56 PM
Jul 2015

Anyone who describes feeling "excitement" while killing an innocent animal, is not someone I would like to interact with. Good riddance.

Go Vols

(5,902 posts)
89. lol
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 02:48 PM
Jul 2015
If you are against it, then don't engage in it. But don't condemn others for doing it.


It could apply to vegan to vegan just as well,or biker to biker or ...

None the less,he is correct.
 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
32. Cows kill humans for fun, then take pictures with their kill?
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 01:34 PM
Jul 2015

And I don't know if he/she does apologize. . My OP was about fellow human beings.

Orrex

(63,084 posts)
44. Then you're moving your goalposts.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 01:49 PM
Jul 2015

Here's your OP:

How many of the hunters hunt only for food?? [View all]
How many of them hunt only to obtain free/fresh meat, but do not greatly enjoy killing??? How many do you think go out there in the woods and apologize or even shed a tear when pulling the trigger?? Don't fool yourself!

I'm so sick of the "I'm hunting only for food" meme.
Nowhere in that OP do you mention taking pictures, but even if we now accept those shifted goalposts, it's still a silly and arbitrary objection. Cats--both big and small--purr with contentment after making a kill; does a lion apologize when it enjoys killing a gazelle?

"But that's killing for food," some will say.

Ok, then: Domestic cats purr after killing mice and birds with no intention of eating them. DO they apologize? YouTube has videos of lions committing revenge killings--you can find them easily. Does a lion apologize after killing a cheetah that it doesn't intend to eat? Does a lion apologize for killing a competitor alpha male?

"But that's killing for a good reason," some will object.

And that's what it invariably comes down to: animals only do bad things for good reasons, while humans do bad things because humans are bad. Even when an animal does a bad thing for a bad reason, it's blamed on bad humans driving the good animal to badness.

I'm sick of the foolish Disney-flavored worship of animals. It's juvenile and demeaning both to animals and to humans.
 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
48. Those who take pictures with their kill do it because they're proud of what they just did.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 01:52 PM
Jul 2015

You're the one chasing "goals" by bringing cows in the mix.

I'm sick of the foolish Disney-flavored worship of animals. It's juvenile and demeaning both to animals and to humans.


You're sick of Disney flavored worships of animals"?? You consider worship when someone cares of a said animal lives or dies? Holy shit...

Orrex

(63,084 posts)
74. And now you're misrepresenting my statement.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 02:16 PM
Jul 2015

I've read your posts on this subject previously, and you never fail to delight with your rose-colored re-imagination of the world.

Those who take pictures with their kill do it because they're proud of what they just did.
If a hunter is providing food for her family, why shouldn't she be proud of it?

You're sick of Disney flavored worships of animals"??
Yes.

You consider worship when someone cares of a said animal lives or dies? Holy shit...
No, you don't really care about that. You don't care whether "a said animal lives or dies." Animals die all the time, very often in ways far more cruel than by a hunter's bullet or an abattoir's blade, but you don't care about that, or at any rate you certainly haven't voiced an objection to it.

You only care when a human kills an animal for a reason that offends you. Your objective is to scold humans for doing something that you don't like, and you've adopted a farcical approach to do it, along with a bogus moralistic pseudo-justification.

Having read many of your previous posts, I think it likely that you'll now complain about me telling you what you think, and you might even roll out the ad hominem objection that I'm "mansplaining." I invite me to prove me wrong:

Show me where you have objected to bottlenose dolphins torturing seals, or to sea otters raping other otters, for instance. Show me that you've fought to end these acts of cruelty. Show me that you actually care about animal cruelty, rather than simply objecting to humans, and I'll agree that maybe your opinion isn't as Disney-addled as I've described it.

But I won't hold my breath waiting.


 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
79. Humans are ( or supposed to be ) smarter than other species.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 02:23 PM
Jul 2015

We don't know why dolphins hurt seals. Could be a theritorial thing. But we know why some hunt. Because they ENJOY IT. Not just because of obtaining meat. For them its a sport.
As a higher SPECIES we have a duty to evolve above that.

Orrex

(63,084 posts)
93. Nope, that's called special pleading.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 03:04 PM
Jul 2015

If we can't know an animals motives, then we can't know those motives when they act with apparent cruelty nor when the act with apparent compassion, yet DU is littered with threads praising dogs for their loyalty and heroism, along with their much-better-than-human-kindness. Sorry--but you're trying to have it both ways.

Because they ENJOY IT. Not just because of obtaining meat. For them its a sport.
Personally, I find that behavior vile in the extreme, but I don't assume some inherent moral wrongness in it. I make no such metaphysical leap of faith, and I conclude instead that the behavior is greatly at odds with my own sense of ethics and aesthetics.

As a higher SPECIES we have a duty to evolve above that.
Higher species? By whose yardstick? Now you're romanticizing humans!
 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
95. You don't assume "moral wrongness" in someone enjoying taking an animal's life???
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 03:08 PM
Jul 2015

Thats explains all your posts.

Obviously that's how you feel, you can't change that. Sad.

Orrex

(63,084 posts)
162. Explain to me how you know that your beliefs are based on objective fact.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 04:45 PM
Jul 2015

Last edited Wed Jul 29, 2015, 06:48 PM - Edit history (1)

You can't--and your inability to see that your beliefs are not, in fact, objective fact explains all of your posts, and that's what's really sad.

As is typical for you, you ignored the bulk of my post because you can't refute it; instead, you latch onto a minor--and frankly indisputable--point and play it up for its supposed emotional impact, and I don't doubt that you'll impress some uncritical readers as you usually do.

Your assumption that your aesthetic preferences are some kind of moral absolute are all the evidence anyone needs that you're unable to see beyond your own ego.

And you haven't done anything to support your point, either. Whatever you might think it is.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
166. "Typical for me"? So now you resort to personal attacks to try to make your point?/
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 04:48 PM
Jul 2015

Since you can't engage in a civil conversation, I wish you nice day.

Orrex

(63,084 posts)
223. It's not a personal attack; it's a demonstrable fact
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 06:44 PM
Jul 2015

Note that I am not asserting that my aesthetic sensibility is obective fact; rather, I am describing your posting style in a way that can be demonstrated by reviewing your posting history.

If you judge that to be a personal attack, then perhaps you should reevaluate your posting style.

Blue_In_AK

(46,436 posts)
36. I can't speak for other states,
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 01:42 PM
Jul 2015

but in Alaska it's a lot - other than the rich Outsiders who come up here to bag their grizzly or whatever. I do not care for those people.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
49. I'm so glad I posted this thread. Many came out of the woodwork
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 01:54 PM
Jul 2015

And showed their true colours.

Thank you.

xmas74

(29,658 posts)
158. What true colors?
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 04:39 PM
Jul 2015

That I was raised in a rural setting? That maybe I'm just not as sophisticated as you? That I actually know where my groceries come from?

I don't hunt but I know many that do. I garden and many of the hunters also garden. I used to fish, though I haven't in years. I bake my own bread, I know local farmers who sell me their eggs and raw milk. I have been to the bee hives where my honey comes from. I go to local orchards for fruits whenever possible. I eat very little meat because it's expensive, though I've considered fishing again to fill the freezer. I can get the equipment from my parents. There are a couple of decent spots within one-two miles of my house so I could walk or ride a bike. I could also go with a friend. The total cost out of pocket would be around $10 yearly, the price of a license.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
159. I was raised in the country as well.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 04:41 PM
Jul 2015

You're only assuming things and missing the point. But nevertheless, have a great evening.

xmas74

(29,658 posts)
164. I'm not missing the point
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 04:47 PM
Jul 2015

and you damn well know it.

You thought you'd have a hundred rec's on this thread and that everyone would fawn over you. Well, that didn't happen, your pride is hurt and you've decided to put your own spin on things, to make it seem as though this was all "some big plan".

Maybe it's time for you to take all your toys and go home for the night since you cannot handle someone else thinking differently than you.

xmas74

(29,658 posts)
190. I've been here for a very long time.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 05:13 PM
Jul 2015

Most here know that I'm not a hateful person by any means.

Most people want validation. They want to connect with other, likeminded people. You either wanted validation or you wanted to stir the pot. Which one was it? I'd like to think that you wanted validation because I cannot stomach pot stirrers.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
192. I could care less for your imaginarry validation.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 05:16 PM
Jul 2015

So anyone who you don't agree with wants either "validation" or they want to "stir the pot"?? Wow!

xmas74

(29,658 posts)
198. I think you do.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 05:29 PM
Jul 2015

If you didn't give a damn about what I thought you'd just quit replying.

Me? I'm just a bit bored. I have the week off of work. I put dinner in the crock pot early this morning and it's ready. I cleaned the house, washed and hung the laundry on the line to dry, weeded the garden and picked a cuke for dinner. I walked to the farmer's market this morning and picked up a cantaloupe, then went to the local library to get my name on a waiting list for a book. Cats are napping during the heat of the day, kid is doing her drills at band camp and I'm just hanging out. When the kid gets home tonight I need to fix a few hems on her clothes.

This conversation is just a break for me from the ho-hum of a hot summer day. I haven't invested myself all that much. You, otoh, seem to be taking everything to heart. If it's that upsetting for you then maybe you need to step back for a bit and get some air.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
199. You "think" wrong.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 05:34 PM
Jul 2015

Like I said, take your hatred elsewhere. Your flamebait posts mean 0 to me .

Have a nice evening.

xmas74

(29,658 posts)
206. And you replied again.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 05:49 PM
Jul 2015

If you really didn't want to talk you'd quit replying. I would have a long time ago. Today, I have time to kill.

As to flamebait that would be your OP and nearly every single post you've made in this thread. Really? Pot, meet kettle.

I did see where you finally had your first rec on this thread. Too bad you had to do it yourself. Sorry.

And this has been a nice evening so far.

xmas74

(29,658 posts)
212. Why?
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 06:02 PM
Jul 2015

I haven't said anything mean. I'm not following you from one thread to another. I'm not starting new threads about you. You keep replying to me and I just keep replying back.

I don't have to take it elsewhere. I've done nothing wrong. If you have a problem with it alert on me. Maybe I'll finally have my first ever deleted post.

xmas74

(29,658 posts)
217. You wrote a flamebait OP
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 06:12 PM
Jul 2015

and wonder why people don't agree with you? Then when others don't agree you are rude and nasty. When called on the nastiness you keep pushing, refusing to just give up.
If it were just me I'd have stopped long ago but you've been nasty to so many in this thread. I don't understand such nastiness and why you think you should be allowed to act that way. If I get a post deleted I'd be proud of it today.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
219. No, i did not.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 06:16 PM
Jul 2015

Most people are not hunters.

You should have your post hidden for calling someone else's post a * flamebait*.

xmas74

(29,658 posts)
221. Go for it.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 06:32 PM
Jul 2015

It doesn't bother me.

Of course, you'd have to acknowledge that you called me flamebait.

fadedrose

(10,044 posts)
211. Jury results
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 06:02 PM
Jul 2015

I'm not missing the point
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7023712

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Jul 29, 2015, 05:13 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Well the comment is certainly rude but, hey, free speech. We are all allowed to our opinion. OP was hot under the collar and the commentor was too. Chill out folks... calm down...

Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't see targeting the 4th or 5th back-and-forth in a snarky exchange in an OP pretty much designed to be inflammatory as the one to be hidden

Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Frankly, rather than just hide post, I'd rather hide the entire thread. What made the OP think that this thread wasn't degenerate into a "less filling/tastes great" type of argument?

Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I've seen worse on DU.

Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Yes, it's a personal attack, and I don't like hiding this one, because the writer was told she was "missing the point," which was rather unkind. The writer described a hard life with little frills, and knows well why some people hunt...they can't afford meat. Hide, but grudgingly.

Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

xmas74

(29,658 posts)
238. I suspect it was blank.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 08:26 PM
Jul 2015

It seems like the jury results include the original message from the alerter.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
55. How many of them NEED to hunt for food?
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 01:59 PM
Jul 2015

I would imagine that the overwhelming majority of US hunters are hunting for the thrill of the kill, not to feed their families.

Sissyk

(12,665 posts)
61. Thousands and thousands of hunters hunt only for food.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 02:07 PM
Jul 2015

I'm sorry you are sick of it; but, it will be around for a long time.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
72. How many of those thousands of thousands do have pics and souvenirs from their hunting trips??
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 02:15 PM
Jul 2015

I live in Florida, I know majority have hunting "parties",
they enjoy it greatly and always take photos. It's not just the meat they're after, is the excitement they feel, just like another poster above stated.

Sissyk

(12,665 posts)
82. I don't count them, so I don't know.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 02:28 PM
Jul 2015

I can say I don't know anyone that has hunting "parties". I do know lots of people that get together and go hunting in groups, or in pairs.

Nothing wrong with that.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
85. Yah, and drink and throw BBQ parties afterwords.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 02:31 PM
Jul 2015

They all enjoy it. I have never heard of any hunter who didn't take pride or bragged about how much fun hunting is. So that.

Sissyk

(12,665 posts)
87. So thatt, what?
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 02:43 PM
Jul 2015

We'll you hang around the wrong people if you hang around hunters that drink and hunt.

So, what's wrong with BBQ parties, again?

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
91. I don't hang around them.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 02:55 PM
Jul 2015

This is not about BBQ and partying. It's about understanding that they hunt for THRILL and excitement. They don't just do it for food.

Sissyk

(12,665 posts)
94. Good you don't hang around them..
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 03:05 PM
Jul 2015

Drinking and hunting do not mix. Ever!

Lots of hunters do it for the food. Lots of hunters do it for the excitement. Lots of hunters do it for the food and the excitement.

My dad was a huge fisherman. We always ate all the fish he caught, had friends and neighbors over for fish-frys, or gave away what we couldn't eat. It's a big job cleaning and putting up all the different kinds of fish he caught. ANd, yes. He had a fishing photo album. From late '60's to around 1998. Every other picture you could see these two young children sticking there faces in with Dad every chance the could.

It's a way of like where I'm from; and as totally different from the lion killer as you could ever get.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
97. Food and excitement.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 03:12 PM
Jul 2015

So you admit they enjoy it. Killing a perfectly happy and healthy wild animal.

They should go play a video game if they want excitement, not ending animal lives.

Sissyk

(12,665 posts)
98. Where did I admit "they" enjoy it?
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 03:21 PM
Jul 2015

Do you think the only "excitement" a hunter can feel is when they release the arrow or pull the trigger? That's only one very small part of the hunting experience.

video games - terribly, terribly violent; and, turns out many violent criminals. (See, I can do it too!)

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
99. Lmao!!!!
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 03:23 PM
Jul 2015

Where else would they get excitement from?? Eating the meat?? Let's be serious now.

And video games don't kill. Hunting rifles do.

Sissyk

(12,665 posts)
107. Well, you are free to believe what you want.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 03:34 PM
Jul 2015

This is America after all.

Just as I, and my family and friends, are free to hunt and eat our food as long as we follow the rules.

pssst - I really don't believe video games cause criminals to commit crimes. Just trying to show how different people can have different beliefs.

xmas74

(29,658 posts)
193. Thanks!
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 05:17 PM
Jul 2015

I've been informed that everyone is casting lines and that we'll cook just a bit. If we get plenty the plan is to split what hasn't been cooked off between everyone to take home and freeze.

RandySF

(57,632 posts)
63. I suspect most people eat what they kill
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 02:08 PM
Jul 2015

But, outside of Alaska, I doubt that it is a necessity. By the way, I'll never forget Sarah plain talking about the freezer getting bare prior to a moose hunt. Really? They couldn't afford to stop by the Wasila Wal Mart?

PeaceNikki

(27,985 posts)
88. Are you a vegetarian? I ask because factory farming is far more inhumane than hunting.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 02:46 PM
Jul 2015

I have much more respect for those who hunt than whose who eat factory farmed meat and judge hunters.

BTW, I am not taking about the 'trophy' assholes. I am in WI so we have a fuckton of actual hunters who ALWAYS eat or donate what they hunt and enjoy the sport of hunting more than the 'kill'.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
92. Yes I am.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 03:04 PM
Jul 2015

"Sport of hunting" you say? Hunting should be a sad thing. That we have to end a life, only to provide life sustaining nutrients.

Have a nice day

PeaceNikki

(27,985 posts)
100. Yes, I do say. For many the thrill comes from connecting with nature,
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 03:23 PM
Jul 2015

taking only what you need, no more, no less.

If you're a vegetarian I totally get how you have a problem with eating meat/killing animals, but I still say that carnivores who hunt their meat are far far more humane and deserve far more respect than those who only buy their meat from a store. I don't know why you are so much more judgmental of them vs those who have zero connection and limited to no understanding with what they are eating.

I really struggle with why (non 'trophy') hunters get such shit from people like you.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
101. Connecting to nature, by killing wild animals??
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 03:24 PM
Jul 2015

Let's not even go there. Hope you have a nice afternoon.

PeaceNikki

(27,985 posts)
104. Yes. By hunting. Ever play hide & seek? Hunting is a lot more than the 'kill'.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 03:28 PM
Jul 2015

I don't know why you keep ignoring the rest of what I posted, but whatev.

Nature includes the "circle of life". Animals hunt and kill for sustenance. People have hunted and gathered for sustenance since the beginning of time.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
109. Yes I played hide and seek, but didn't kill innocent lives in the process.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 03:35 PM
Jul 2015

Hunters know what they're doing, that they're ending lives, yet they still love it and feel excitement when doing the deed. Hunting shouldn't be a "game". We are humans and have evolved enough to know better and not enjoy killing. Unless there is something wrong with us

PeaceNikki

(27,985 posts)
116. But you keep ignoring the rest of what I said. Factory farming is FAR FAR more inhumane.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 03:40 PM
Jul 2015

So are you purporting that hunters are somehow 'worse' than people who go to the local Piggly Wiggly and hand over their cash for meat that was raised on horrible factory farms? You keep ignoring and dancing around that part if the equation.

Look, if people are going to be carnivores (and they will be), I would think you would MUCH prefer that they hunt the meat they eat and only eat meat they hunt. In fact, I would think you would insist that if they eat meat it should only be meat they hunted.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
120. Yes, I do. Because piggly wiggly will still grow, slaughter and sell farm meat regardless
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 03:44 PM
Jul 2015

if your uncle Joe goes out hunting or not.

Why contribute to the death and suffering ofof even more animals???

And just FYI, not all animals shot in hunting trips die.Some agonize for days, even weeks. It's a horrible way to go!!!

PeaceNikki

(27,985 posts)
126. Your "FYI" statement would be illegal and unethical and nothing any hunter I know would do.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 03:58 PM
Jul 2015

Game wardens and the DNR are not people to fuck with.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
128. Yet it happens , due to many factors.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 04:02 PM
Jul 2015

It actually happens all the time, where the shot only injures, and the hunters try to find the wounded animal to "finish him off" , as they call it. Go look it up.

xmas74

(29,658 posts)
204. One of the biggest assholes from high school eventually went to work for DNR.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 05:44 PM
Jul 2015

That's not someone I'd want to mess with-ever.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
122. Factory farms will never stop or at least not in near future.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 03:47 PM
Jul 2015

What us, as individuals do, is within our control.

Why then would anyone add to the slaughter???

PeaceNikki

(27,985 posts)
124. If hunters didn't hunt and eat the meat, the demand for factory farmed meat would be greater.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 03:55 PM
Jul 2015

I stand by my assessment that hunting is far more respectable and I would encourage MORE people to hunt and far FAR fewer factory farms.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
143. Thats is what you implied.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 04:20 PM
Jul 2015

It makes no difference if hunters hunt or not, meat farms won't go away any time soon.

Hunters are the ones who have a choice in whether they will add to the death and suffering or not.

PeaceNikki

(27,985 posts)
156. You think hunters are bad and factory farms are good?
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 04:36 PM
Jul 2015

Or at least acceptable, less bad. That's what you're implying and that's what I find gross.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
168. I never said factory farms are good. What I said was hunting won't stop factory farms
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 04:50 PM
Jul 2015

We can't stop factory farms ( not anytime soon ). But we can educate people and stop hunting.

Why are you twisting my words?

Spirochete

(5,264 posts)
119. None of them do
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 03:43 PM
Jul 2015

I think there's something seriously wrong with all of them, to enjoy killing relatively helpless things for their own fun and vanity. But when it comes to something that might be shooting back, then they report to the draft board with their Levis chock full of shit.

aikoaiko

(34,127 posts)
115. I don't mind if hunters enjoy the effort and skill of hunting well.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 03:39 PM
Jul 2015

I don't go hunting, but I do fish and I love the social aspect, the skills, the gear, the fresh meat, and the connectedness I feel with nature when I catch, kill, prepare, cook, and eat something. The connectedness is the same feeling I get when I grow vegies.
 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
165. Strange in a way, I enjoy much more the actual hooking & catching of fish than shooting a deer...
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 04:47 PM
Jul 2015

You feel the power of the fish and are challenged to land him before she throws the hook. I also enjoy eating themthem, though in reality,most I throw back due to size and species limitations.

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
131. The fact that they also ENJOY hunting is beside the point.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 04:04 PM
Jul 2015

So long as they are are hunting ethically, I have no problem with it. In fact, they can, and often are, an important part of maintaining a healthy ecology in the absence of natural predators.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
136. Healthy ecology my ass.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 04:09 PM
Jul 2015

And what's ethical about killing or wounding wild animals?? Some animals suffer for days , weeks or even months before finally succumbing their wounds.

Excuse me, if I don't find hunting ethical! Because it's not.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
147. Agriculture" ( I guess you mean animal farms" will never go away.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 04:25 PM
Jul 2015

Hunting is a personal choice. And it's a wrong choice. It only depends on the individual if they chose to add or not to add to the death and suffering.

Not to mention many hunters only injure, and the animals suffwr for days and weeks in agonizing pain, before dying.

For ms its rather a simple choice. Sorry it is so hard for you.

PeaceNikki

(27,985 posts)
218. Yup. Why anyone would literally prefer meat eaters consume factory farmed meat over hunting is
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 06:12 PM
Jul 2015

something I will never understand. I think it's a shameful preference. The OP has stopped responding in this thread but is sending her reply to me via PM now.

Odd.

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
142. You have no idea you are talking about.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 04:18 PM
Jul 2015

I suggest you look up what happens when a deer population is out of control.

- Devastated vegetation.

- Herd starvation. Also the starvation of the other animals dependent on the same food sources as the deer.

- Inbred deer populations.

- Deer strikes on the roadways all over the place.

We've eliminated the natural predators in most populated areas.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
152. Look up what happens when hunters only injure and the animal suffers for weeks
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 04:28 PM
Jul 2015

Your excuses don't hold, sorry.

Fuck hunting!!

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
183. Wounded animals are a shame....
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 05:07 PM
Jul 2015

But not as a much of a shame as a starving deer population.

You a classic case of emotion over brains.

quaker bill

(8,223 posts)
144. Don't hunt
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 04:21 PM
Jul 2015

But I have no problem with it. I just find the mix of rednecks, beer, and high powered weapons discomforting. Around here there are not enough effective hunters to even begin to control the populations of the game species.

The animals they hunt and eat were raised humanely and "cage free".

quaker bill

(8,223 posts)
241. I have not seen that
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 08:49 PM
Jul 2015

The guys I know are quite good shots and carry sufficient firepower. They largely hunt feral hogs, which are not native and destroy habitat for the native species. Properly dressed and smoked low and slow however, they are quite tasty.

Since hunters alone are simply not up to the task, conservation biologists take over, and usually donate the meat to feed the homeless. Now we can blame the Spanish for this, as they brought the hogs here in the 16th century and then lost control of them...

Even with all that, no bag limit, and a year round season on feral hogs, they are so fecund bearing litters of up to 10, that it is not enough to control the population.

I don't do it, but I have no objection to it. I do not require your approval, its OK, I will be just fine without it.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
151. I've known people who hunt only for food
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 04:28 PM
Jul 2015

Food stamps don't pay much, and if you've been handed down a gun from a parent or grandparent, it doesn't cost much to hunt - certainly not as much as it would cost to buy as much meat as you get. I've known quite a few people who have used food stamps for everything but meat and have pretty excusively eaten venison and fish otherwise.

xmas74

(29,658 posts)
186. Same here.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 05:08 PM
Jul 2015

I mentioned a friend upthread who hunts, fishes, forages and gardens to cover most of the food budget for him and his kids. He buys milk and eggs from a local farmer and buy very few things from the store-mostly spices and some things he can't get from the other actions in our area. (Flour, sugar, yeast,citrus, canning supplies including pectin, etc. He buys school party snacks because the school doesn't allow home made snacks.) He was given his gun since his dad is getting too old to hunt (bad knees), he purchased an inexpensive fishing set-pole, line, filled tackle box-at Walmart, he rations his ammo and pays for his legal licenses h needs. Still cheaper than a month's worth of groceries for the average family of five.

The OP's response? He spends tons of money on his professional hunting. He's not a professional hunter.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
169. I did subsistence hunting and fishing for 12 years
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 04:51 PM
Jul 2015

Can't be broke in Alaska without either hunting or relying on people who do. And I enjoyed it more than the alternative of going hungry. Which I've also done before. I don't recommend it.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
184. I don't know what they do. I'm not them.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 05:07 PM
Jul 2015

I imagine for others who eat their kills, a rifle cartridge is a good deal cheaper than the store price of the meat it can collect. Which is good for stretching what they have.

If you want to talk about trophy hunters though? Those guys should be fed to large cats. it'd be poetic and the cats need the help.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
187. Then you cant refute what majority of hunters do, which is killing for sport/fun
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 05:08 PM
Jul 2015

You are an exception to the norm.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
188. I haven't seen you support this thesis anywhere in the thread.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 05:11 PM
Jul 2015

And while I don't doubt that I'm an exception to many norms, I don't think you're well-qualified to judge that.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
191. I'm well qualified to judge unnecessary killings and tortures just by having a heart.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 05:13 PM
Jul 2015

I hope you have one as well.

PeaceNikki

(27,985 posts)
185. No, they'd consume more factory farm meat which is far worse.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 05:07 PM
Jul 2015

It's far worse for the environment as well as far less ethical.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
189. Factory farming will not stop any time soon.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 05:12 PM
Jul 2015

Can you stop factory farming, Nikki? I bet you can't . what you can change is your support for additional , unnecessary killings which hunting brings upon our animal population.

Please at least think about it.

And then consider vegetarian diet.
It is a lot healthier than eating meat.

PeaceNikki

(27,985 posts)
196. So we should encourage people to consume more factory farmed meat as opposed to hunting?
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 05:21 PM
Jul 2015

That's a terrible argument. We should encourage more meat eaters to hunt their own meat vs buying it. Not the other way around. Ever.

I stand by my assessment that hunting is far more respectable and I would encourage MORE people to hunt and far FAR fewer factory farms. And I find it sad that you have the opposite opinion only because it "can't be stopped".

JustAnotherGen

(31,681 posts)
194. My father did
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 05:18 PM
Jul 2015

My husband does. We like rabbit and venison and duck - So be it.

Do they shed a tear? Nope - circle of life.

RebelOne

(30,947 posts)
205. Very few.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 05:44 PM
Jul 2015

I was a copy editor for 35 national hunting and fishing magazines, and it was all about trophy hunting. Woe be it to any buck with a 10-point or more rack.

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
216. taking pride in hunting and slaying game in no less ethical or more unnatural than taking pride in
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 06:10 PM
Jul 2015

growing and picking a tomato.

xmas74

(29,658 posts)
239. Definitely not a classic.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 08:30 PM
Jul 2015

We need to take it old school for the classics, like breastfeeding, Olive Garden in NYC or even cornflake coating on fried chicken. I know I posted in all of those back in the day.

malokvale77

(4,879 posts)
244. I honestly can not answer that question.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 09:30 PM
Jul 2015

I can however say, most hunters I know have quit because they were sick of those that had no clue what to do with the animal they just killed.

ileus

(15,396 posts)
246. The hunting my son and I engage in is for food.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 10:30 PM
Jul 2015

I'm too lazy to engage in trying to "trophy" hunt. We have room enough in the freezer for a few deer, a turkey or two, and maybe a few grouse and rabbits every year.

For my hunting is a good way to kill time until fishing season rolls back around. Only we don't keep fish, we only fish for sport.

10 hours on the yak this weekend my son and I caught 35 Smallies....

 

AtomicKitten

(46,585 posts)
247. When I was little, my father hunted a couple times a year and we ate what he shot.
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 01:39 AM
Jul 2015

I remember getting up really early and seeing a couple dead deer on the cold dewy lawn.

It horrified me then as much as the thought of it does now.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»How many of the hunters h...