General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHow many of the hunters hunt only for food??
How many of them hunt only to obtain free/fresh meat, but do not greatly enjoy killing??? How many do you think go out there in the woods and apologize or even shed a tear when pulling the trigger?? Don't fool yourself!
I'm so sick of the "I'm hunting only for food" meme.
Oneironaut
(5,461 posts)If you eat meat, someone is killing that fish or animal for you, and sometimes not humanely. At least I know that an animal I kill was not tortured.
I hate killing. I just understand that buying meat from an industry that does the killing doesn't absolve you of the responsibility.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)I'm pretty sure you understood exactly who I was referring to!
jwirr
(39,215 posts)darkangel218
(13,985 posts)No need for it. And I feel a lot happier and healthier without consuming animal products.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)is not for everyone. It is not easy being a vegetarian of any kind. My sister tried and got very sick because knowing how to get enough protein into your diet is not easy.
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)More difficult but still not that difficult to be vegan.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)You just have to know how to manage. Changing diets takes time. I lapsed twice , but eventually I learned how to manage it.
And I never looked back after.
Texasgal
(17,029 posts)Kinda like your RN degree? Months is your favorite timeline I guess.
Paladin
(28,202 posts)I no longer hunt, mainly because of the overwhelming number of right-wing assholes who participate in the practice. Another thing I realize: all things considered for most peoples' situations, there is nothing more pricey than meat you bring home from a hunt. Prime filet mignons are an absolute bargain, compared to what venison backstrap costs most people.
Logical
(22,457 posts)tularetom
(23,664 posts)But I also shoot the occasional coyote or rattlesnake in order to protect our chickens and pets (and ourselves in the case of the snakes).
I don't necessarily enjoy it but I don't like burying my dogs or cats because they got torn apart by a coyote.
still_one
(91,950 posts)If you eat meat, then you are having someone else do the killing for you
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Fishing is called a "sport" and an "enjoyment" activity. They don't do it just to catch fish, they LIKE catching and killing them!
still_one
(91,950 posts)Use it as food, and not exclusively for trophies or sport, I have no problem with that
The dentist who killed the lion is demented. "Big game" animals are not hunted for food, and are endangered species to boot
You can slam people like him all day, and I will join in the slamming
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)If someone killed strictly because they needed something to eat, and would starve otherwise, I would understand. But majority of hunters hunt mainly for the THRILL. The meat is just a bonus.
still_one
(91,950 posts)darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Adrahil
(13,340 posts)darkangel218
(13,985 posts)What's so ethical about killing a healthy wild animal?
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Things in nature kill each other ALL THE TIME. We are animals. It's silly, in my view, as viewing ourselves as being entirely above nature.
By ethically I mean:
1) Having an eye towards conservation. Maintaining healthy herds and healthy food stocks. In fact, WITHOUT hunting, this is often not possible, since natural predators are largely eliminated. Unculled deer herds can grow unchecked, destroying the local food sources, and condemning the herd and other animals to starvation. The population must be maintained at a level consitent with sustainability.
2) Without cruelty. A hunter should be proficient and well-equipped enough to ensure the kill is as rapid and painless as possible.
3) The animal is used whenever possible. Deer and feral pigs eaten, for example. If not by the hunter, then someone else. Killing of nuisance animals should be kept to the absolute minimum necessary.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)We have a choice. We can chose if we want to kill or torture ( by wounding ) animals or not.
Not quiet the same.
Try harder.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Yes, we could CHOOSE not kill animals for food. But as I pointed out, there would be some consequences you may not like!
Also, I don't see that choosing no to kill and eat animals is somehow a morally superior choice. We are omnivores. Animals are, generally speaking, part of our diet. I do not see any moral superiority in not eating what we evolved to eat. I don't judge those who choose NOT to eat animals... do what you feel is right... but I do not agree.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)As much as I hate slaughter houses, at least they don't just the animals and leave them suffer in agonizing pain for months. Don't get me wrong, I don't defend farming animals for meat. But t least I know the intention of those doing is is only to feed the population. Unlike hunters, who think KILLING is a sport.
Hunting is wrong, and I hope it will be declared illegal sometime soon.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)But if it is. I hope you take the time observe the fawns starving and dying as a consequence of your position.
Though you STILL have no clarified why you think being at the top of the food chain makes a difference.
Lions are at the top of the food chain on the savanna, but I assume you don't deride them for hunting and killing?
Snobblevitch
(1,958 posts)The voters in Minnesota passed a constitutional amendment guaranteeing the right to hunt and fish.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)You object to my blowing a hole through a deer, but have little concern about the farms you depend on blowing holes through entire ecosystems.
You can't dance around this fact: We all kill to eat. The rest is guilt and rather Americanized puritanical fears of pleasure.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Stop hunting,. Then try to educate people in making better choices. Go vegetarian, if you can't be vegan. Meat proteins can easily be replaced. Let farms farm only for milk and eggs.
There are ways to change, but very few are willing to take the leap, since its so much easier to hide behind an excuse.
Telcontar
(660 posts)I don't have hangups about killing. It's in our genes. Fighting your genetic heritage is just flat out silly.
nilesobek
(1,423 posts)At my previous job as a cashier the business was thee go-to place to grab stuff and fuel up before a hunting trip.
People would spend 200$ on gasoline, food, tobacco, energy drinks and whatnot. They are wearing 500$ camo zoot suits. Their trucks go between 30k and 60k in value and price. Those trucks are full of expensive guns starting at about 1500$ apiece on up.
Think about how many Angus bulls that hunters could purchase for that amount of money. I laugh when I get the subsistence hunting argument. Some of the hunters must be terrible at it because they strike out continually here. I'm not impressed. I'm not a hunter but a camper and I can go out to my camping area, about 70mi from here, sit down in my folding chair, and within an hour have deer and elk all around me while I drink beer quietly. These guys are trying to hard!
But I think that there's more than just thrill killing going on here. Quite a few hunters view it as a protected cultural practice that has reached the level of Holy Land status, and a reason to spend time with their sons on an outing. The only way to make changes is to talk to people about it, not shrinking away from the hunting crowd, thanks for that.
AllFieldsRequired
(489 posts)still_one
(91,950 posts)hunt "big game"
"big game" is not hunted for food, it is for trophies or pooching for Ivory etc.
AllFieldsRequired
(489 posts)make that excuse for anything.
Hunting and harvesting animals for food are very different.
Both are wrong, I suppose, but different.
Killing wild animals for any reason is wrong unless one is starving or in danger.
still_one
(91,950 posts)"killing wild animals for any reason is wrong", is not shared by the majority of people. Ducks and other fowl are wild animals, and whether they are "harvested", or obtained and consumed by hunters or killed by the slaughter house amounts to the same thing as far as the animal is concerned.
People can be vegetarians without consuming any animals. I am a vegetarian, but I do not have value judgements on others who eat meat, harvested or hunted.
As far as I am concerned overcrowding animals, feeding the antibiotics, and accelerating their growth process for consumption, only to be slaughter is worse in a lot of respects
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)and fish using techniques that assure that the fish I release will survive. However, the skills I have in angling could feed my family and my neighbors if push came to shove. Fishing is a skilled activity. Without practicing it, your catch will be small or nonexistent. If I ever need for fish for sustenance, I will be successful at it.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Do you think the fish you catch ( I assume you use hooks in the process ) are happy?
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)I know of none.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)MineralMan
(146,192 posts)darkangel218
(13,985 posts)I bet you wouldn't like it. Actually, I'm pretty sure about that.
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)Sorry.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)You wouldn't like it if someone did to you what you do to the fish. Catching and releasing may not kill them all, but tortures them
http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-in-entertainment/cruel-sports/fishing/
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)Though you don't kill it, you are putting aan animal through torment for your own fun.
At least own that.
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)Do I put an animal through torment? Probably not so much. I've caught and released the same fish on the same day a few times, even. I like to fish. I like having the skills I could use to feed myself and others if necessary. Fishing isn't easy. It's a learned skill that requires practice.
I can also start a fire without matches, build a shelter, and capture small mammals and birds in traps. I'm capable of surviving in the wilderness. I learned those skills for the same reasons I have learned how to hunt and fish. Someday, it could save my life and the lives of other people. I also have advanced first aid skills, know all of the edible plants that are native to my area and most other parts of the country. I have studied those things and have practiced those skills as well.
But, I do not answer hypothetical questions that involve non-existent entities.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)B Calm
(28,762 posts)fish floating near the weigh in site. Sure they were alive when the angler weighed them in, but after the stress of being in a live well all day, taking pictures, etc etc, many of them don't make it.
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)release gently. They survive just fine.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)barbless.
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)The circle hooks always end up at the corner of the jaw, and are easy to remove. Catch and release is how I fish, these days.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)Ever in Indiana stop by anf fish.
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)It's sort of off my normal travel patterns.
Here in Minnesota, I'm surrounded by fishing waters. In fact, my wife handed me a gift certificate for a half-day guide trip with one of the better guides around here. I'm looking forward to learning something from him. I haven't scheduled the trip, though, yet. I'll leave it to him where and what we fish for.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)a dear friend that lived on a small lake with no public access in Itaska county 60 miles nw of Grand Rapids. She had a 3 bedroom guest house and I could come up anytime I wanted no charge. She died this spring and her daughter took it over. If I ever hit the lottery I'll buy her out.
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)With a guide, though, I'll be on one of the rivers, I'm sure. I don't have a boat any longer.
NutmegYankee
(16,177 posts)Most of us eat meat and are therefore guilty of killing animals ourselves. We just don't actually do the butchering and therefore feel superior. Hunting is far more Eco friendly in that it's sustainable management of wild populations with very little carbon footprint.
Go Vols
(5,902 posts)about it.Killing a deer is the easy part,then comes the work of getting it out of the woods,getting it home and hanging it and then skinning and cutting it up...
Its far from fun and games,its work.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)I'll say that it's part of the culture. They like their culture. They enjoy the family and multiple family trips that they make together on hunting trips, whether or not they got their tag, they will be one of the actual hunters, or they actually kill something.
I don't hunt, but I am not a vegetarian, and I know that wild game lives a better life, and has a better chance, than animals raised to slaughter.
In my area, there are plenty of small ranches raising grass fed animals that don't go to feed lots. They also spend their lives, for however long they live, in a hell of a lot better conditions than factory meat farming. That's where I get what meat I eat.
There are all kinds of hunters on that hunting spectrum, and some of them enjoy killing. Not all, though.
I work with a local man who raises a small number of hogs in addition to his day job. He loves those pigs. He cries when it's time to process them. I admit that I don't get that. I will say, though, that those who kill their own meat, whether wild or ranch-raised, tend to be more respectful as a whole, in my experience, than those that let others do the killing for them.
I also work with a man who fly fishes as a sport. He practices catch and release only. I've fished, although it's been a couple of decades. I ate what I caught, though.
I understand your aversion to both hunting and fishing. Doing either for food, though, even if it involves enjoyment, simply is not the same thing as trophy hunting. The motivation and enjoyment are simply not the same.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)I enjoy hunting and eating what I hunt. When pulling the trigger, I am concentrating too much on making a killing shot to really "enjoy" it. So much depends on how you hold the rifle (if that is your weapon), squeeze the trigger, noting landmarks, and stopping the deer from walking by uttering a call, that I can't say I enjoy the moment. I CAN say that my heart is beating quite fast, my movements must be carefully controlled, and I am ready for the "pounce" or human equivalent. This is part of how humans began, and while you can certainly wish or train it away as an activity, the instincts and emotions are always there and nothing to be ashamed of.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)It's very deeply-ingrained for a lot of humans. We evolved as predators (many omnivores are predators, actually). There's some deep-seated, instinctual triggers being tripped.
I hunted as a kid and young teenager, before losing all taste for it at about 14. There is a definite "thrill of the chase" involved. It's a bit creepy to experience, to be honest...but the evolutionary purpose for it is obvious.
d_r
(6,907 posts)I don't enjoy killing them.
I like eating them.
I wouldn't at all mind "I'll catch em, you clean em, I'll cook um." But somebody has to clean them.
Jim Beard
(2,535 posts)I learned later in life to quit looking at birds as though they were in crosshairs. As I age, my appitite for meat has greatly diminished in a natural sort of way. I just simply do not have the desire for it anymore. Wish I had aquired these feelings years ago.
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)Hunting to add meat to the freezer, and fishing, too, is widespread in much of the country. Here in Minnesota, it certainly is. As for apologizing or shedding a tear, that's more common than you'd think, too. I no longer hunt, but when I did, I always felt bad after killing an animal. I feel bad when I eat meat that an animal died, too. I'm aware of that always, and hunters are more aware than most people of the reality of eating meat.
Where I live, we have a large immigrant population of Hmong and Somali people. Hunting and fishing is a big part of their lives, in season, and they make maximum use of the results of their hunting and fishing. Hunting is also part of the lives of many others, and the meat that goes into the freezer helps balance out the budget for many families. Fishing, too, brings food to the table.
It's also a traditional activity for many. It ties people to their ancestry and the need their forbears had to get their own food. The skills and process of hunting has been passed down for generations in many families. In my family, the tradition is a long one, and the watchword is "Don't kill anything you aren't going to eat." Hunting fed my father's household as a youngster during the Depression, and when he was old enough, the rabbits, upland birds and fish he could obtain helped the family survive hard times. It's something that must be practiced if you're going to have success, so he taught his offspring how to hunt and fish, just in case they ever needed those skills. We ate everything we killed. Every time.
Not all hunters are like that Minnesota dentist. Most would condemn that kind of hunting and would never do it, even if they had an opportunity.
GusBob
(7,286 posts)I would try to explain it but I reckon you aint interested
If I had to hunt "only for food" I would hunt all the time and shoot lots more game
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)Being out in nature, human vs. wild, has its own appeal. I last went hunting, seriously, when I was 12. I remember the heightened awareness, the excitement, the tactics of it. Never bagged a deer, though, but still enjoyed the experience.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Maedhros
(10,007 posts)It's not for me, anymore, either. But I understand.
Try more understanding, and less moral grandstanding.
Your posts are worthless. Welcome to the ignore list.
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)But there are USDA-approved game bags to place the entire carcass in to discourage flies.
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)darkangel218
(13,985 posts)HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Im just glad now I know who i need to ignore.
Kali
(54,990 posts)keeping your word, as usual
does your utter lack of credibility ever bother you?
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)I cooked up 2 batches over a hot grill and served them to friends ar a local bar/coffee shop. Immediately consumed.
I prefer storing in a block of ice when I have enough accumulated. They keep for over a year or more. The most common dish is using half a pickled jalapenpo slice wrapped in jack cheese, wrapped in a boned 1/2 breast, wrapped in a bacon strip, held together by a toothpick, then cooked 12-13 mins a side over a medmium hot fire. No seasoning necessary. My ambition is to shoot a feral hog and do some bacon makin' au natural!
Orrex
(63,084 posts)Who doesn't love dove?
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)Orrex
(63,084 posts)Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)Adrahil
(13,340 posts)I've never "hunted," but I did once go stalking (hunting without the actual taking of the animal), and it was a thrill.
Logical
(22,457 posts)quickesst
(6,280 posts)....with a good old scrambled egg and cheese sandwich. Didn't kill an animal for it, but I do feel a little remorse for the unborn chick. No, I don't. I kid, I kid, but if you are having trouble with understanding what responsible hunting is, there is a current thread explaining it very well posted by LynneSin. Probably a waste of time since by your demeanor in the OP, I doubt there would be any consideration in changing your mind. Let me say one thing. Take deer hunting for instance. Without it, deer would overpopulate leaving thousands to starvation and disease. Add to that their hunger would result in their scavenging from the garbage of rural and urban homes. The only way it would be better for them is if mankind had never made an appearance on this earth, but there is little, short of nuclear destruction that will change that. I doubt there would be any benefit to the deer either.
Brickbat
(19,339 posts)OMG SLAUGHTER. Insisting people apologize, feel guilty or not have fun when they're hunting is bizarre.
Xyzse
(8,217 posts)Are damn crickets at night...
If one perchance gets inside the house, and makes a racket... I will hunt that thing down, mercilessly.
Spiders, I tend to catch and bring outside.
I just have no mercy towards crickets at this time.
So, my poor conscience is probably gone, as I have most likely killed Jiminy.
Shrek
(3,970 posts)We eat other living things to survive.
That's just the way it works.
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)Kali
(54,990 posts)but then she has made a number of incredible claims since she arrived at DU
xmas74
(29,658 posts)and always has to have the last word. I made a roundabout comment to that extent and she accused me of posting nothing but flamebait and being a "hater". She also attempted to put out this whole thing about being so well-loved and respected here, insinuating more than most.
This is my first experience with her. I guess that's what happens when you take breaks from DU.
projects like a republican (and she loves them over on DI, they are her good buddies. but she is on time out there and will be here again soon as well, if her pattern continues. despite many, many promises of leaving DU, she always returns)
her behavior reminds me of a 15 year old on a first bender
xmas74
(29,658 posts)she said I needed to be alerted on for calling it flamebait.
You can make this stuff up.
Kali
(54,990 posts)there have been some classics, usually self-deleted after a few hundred replies. my all-time favorite has to be the spirit of Margaret Thatcher.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022641298
xmas74
(29,658 posts)Spirit always sounds so nice, like Casper the Friendly Ghost. Thatcher is a straight-up demon from the depths of hell.
Texasgal
(17,029 posts)when her narrative is at stake.
I highly doubt she's a vegan, just like Alaska and her quicky RN degree which was BS from the beginning.
xmas74
(29,658 posts)At least a few of them wish their families had enough money to buy their groceries at the store. All the gardening, fishing, hunting and preserving of the bounty takes time. It's easier and faster to buy it.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)animal for providing food. I have seen it done.
As for fresh meat - many now freeze the meat. And most Native hunters also give a portion of the meat to the elderly and disabled who cannot hunt for themselves.
Also if you live in an area like we do is it any better to let the herd get so large that they starve in the winter? It happens and it is a horrible way to die. Weakened until the wolves can attack any time they want. If the herd is culled they stay healthy and can run from the wolves.
I dislike the idea of hunting for fun only because there is no justification for that. Or at least not in the Native community.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)Hunting is necessary to avoid population collapse from disease or starvation.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)at night. May sound crazy - but we actually like it.
Daemonaquila
(1,712 posts)I wish we had some here. But we do have owls at night, and the occasional bobcat.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)it is soothing to know that the wolves are back.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)Ranchers are none too happy about it, but I think it's a good thing.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)just make sure that our animals are in shelter at night - have never lost any to wolves.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)I grew up in Central Oregon, and spent quite a bit of time around ranchers.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Maedhros
(10,007 posts)She clearly is uninterested in meaningful discussion and is just playing outrage poker.
Runningdawg
(4,494 posts)I am getting older and don't hunt as much as I used to. I would never think about going out for food without asking the Creator for his guidance. Guidance in finding the food and guidance that my shot finds its target. My biggest concern is that I will wound an animal. I was taught and always leave a portion of the kill in the woods for the other animals. The 2nd portion goes to an elder. Only then does the meat come to MY table. ALL parts of the animal are used. I don't tan but I know many who do, they always receive the hide and brain. I drive predators away from my property but IF they repeatedly endanger my own animals and trapping live fails, I kill them as cleanly as possible. Even then, I give thanks to the Creator and find a place for what is usable.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)grandchildren are going to keep the tradition alive. We recognize our connection to all things living. Our dependence on all things.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)Hunting for food and hunting for trophies and bragging right are not the same thing.
I have no use for the latter.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)pigs were kind of sad when shot them but filled the deep freezer, fed the family!
jwirr
(39,215 posts)by gardening, gathering maple sugar, raise bees, hunting, fishing, raising small animals (would raise a cow or two but not enough room) and foraging. Most of us are low-income so all of this helps us. We do our own butchering, canning and freezing and other preparation. The waste from the animals provides our fertilizer and the chickens provide us with eggs. Any excess we have at the end of the season goes to people in need that we know.
Very little goes to waste. The whole family helps including the little kids who love being responsible. It is a family tradition.
We would have a hog named "pork chop" and a calf named "meatloaf" every year that would feed us until the next year.
Daemonaquila
(1,712 posts)Virtually all hunters, including all of those I know personally (and I also am a hunter), are interested in the meat. Period. None of us take or put up trophies. We get fresh food for months at a time from a single deer, or sometimes another animal, such as wild hogs that tear up the land. We process the carcass sometimes at horribly late hours, and either cut it up for greater processing at a professional processing business, or to finish off processing and packing ourselves. Anything my friends and I don't use (as with roadkill, with game warden permission) goes to feed wildlife undergoing rehabilitation. Other hunters and game wardens also bring both roadkilled and illegally taken carcasses to the center to feed those animals. Occasionally a deer skin gets processed for use in clothing or furnishing.
The animals taken are either problems (wild hogs) or deer, which are overpopulated in the area, particularly axis deer which are an exotic species that have overrun the area and are crowding out the native whitetail population.
You think hunters don't think twice about pulling the trigger? That they aren't thankful, and that they don't apologize? Your biases are your problem, not hunters. All the hunters I know, including myself, have to swallow really hard before pulling that trigger. The biggest fear many of us have, especially those who haven't done it over decades, is that we will muff a shot and harm, but not instantly kill, an animal. I was taught to use a high neck shot by my mentor, which is a much harder shot than the conventional heart/lung target, but which is the best for a sure kill with massive spinal damage and extremely fast bleed out. You either hit or you miss, but you don't just wound a deer that might get away and die a slow and ugly death despite your best efforts at tracking it. We clean every usable bit off the carcass to avoid wasting. When I have venison in my freezer, I am acutely aware of where it came from, and none of it is wasted - that's a DUTY if you take a life for food.
Hunting isn't the avid sport followed by reckless idiots that so many people want to believe it is. There ARE trophy hunters and idiots who just want to shoot at things. They are not hunters, but murderers. A real hunter is out for healthy meat, often on a budget, to replace factory farmed food (do PLEASE explain how factory farming is more "humane" than a nearly instantaneous, clean kill on an animal that has lived its life quite fully in the wild). Others supplement grocery store food because they like wild meat, and they appreciate the skills they have been taught and do not want to lose them. I know people who hunt for the vast majority of their meat, and others who take a couple deer, and maybe a couple turkey, per year.
Don't make crap up about people and practices you apparently know nothing about. That's what the GOP and the teabaggers do. DUers should be better than that.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Let me ask you a simple question, do you have photos with your "kills"? And be honest in your answer.
xmas74
(29,658 posts)A huge buck. He's also posted a few pics of coon, possum and turkeys. Every time he's posted the pics he's always said how thankful he was that he could feed his family through the winter. He hadn't hunted for years but after a layoff a family member gave him use of a rifle and some ammo. He posted because he was so happy that he would be able to save money on groceries when they needed to save the most. He also posted and tagged the family member so they could see how their simple loan helped so much.
He's in better shape now but still hunts, fishes and gardens. He also forages. He has learned how to can and does a great job preserving his food sources. He does it for a few reasons. One: the job he found pays half what he used to make. Two: He had a lot of debt to pay off, after his divorce. Three: He's a single dad with primary custody of four children. The kids help in the garden and fishing. The two oldest help forage. The oldest, his daughter, will hunt for the first time this fall.
It's not for everyone but they live off of what they hunt.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Since most professional hunters spend a fortune on gear/hunting supplies.
Sure, its all about saving money at the grocery store. Lmao!!!!
xmas74
(29,658 posts)He's never actually purchased a weapon, since his father gave him his. His father is getting too old to hunt.
He purchases ammo but not that often. He's always been a good shot.
They do live off of what they grow, what they fish, what forage (such as nettle, kudzu, pawpaw, hawberries, wild blackberries and mushrooms) and what they hunt. His pantry is full of things he's canned and dehydrated and his freezer is full of fish and some meat. Last year he dug out a small root cellar and now keeps potatoes, apples, cabbages, onions and a couple of crocks that he's worked on his fermenting. He also keeps his wine that he makes down there, along with some lawn furniture to sit on during severe weather. His very old home doesn't include a basement so he has to make do.
Professional hunters are an entirely different game. My friend is a small town boy who does his best to save a buck or two.
Daemonaquila
(1,712 posts)It would be hilarious if you weren't so fanatical about your world view being the truth.
None of the hunters I know spend squat on equipment. There are some weirdos who buy all kinds of unnecessary gear, clothing, tremendously expensive blinds, etc. Those are generally the guys who DO trophy hunt, and have a ton of money to sink into their dumb hobby, not your run of the mill hunter.
I shot my first deer with a borrowed rifle and one bullet, sitting in a decrepit home-built blind that was made from a discarded, damaged wooden shipping container (i.e. free), in ratty old jeans and work boots because I knew I'd be making a mess later if I got the deer. It was on a friend's ranch land - no leases or fees. I dragged the body out of the woods with no devices of any sort to make it easier. I put it in the back of an old truck that several hunters shared to keep the mess down to one vehicle. I drove out of that area to the area my teacher uses for skinning and gutting - a salvaged hook attached to a salvaged hand-crank winch mounted on a tree, with an old feed bucket to catch the guts and a handy tree stump for hatcheting a bone. Oh, and there was a nice "luxury" nearby - a HOSE to wash it all down. I used old kitchen knives to process the deer, and spent a whopping $5 on freezer paper and tape, and an old sharpie, to package my meat on the spot.
Yeah, that's a lot of expensive gear right there. Sure. That's how I did it then, and that's how the people I know do it. That, or even just driving an old farm jeep behind some brush in a good place, and waiting. My gun? I eventually bought a well-used one from a friend for a whopping $200. I suppose we splurge on that $1/bullet, which is all you should ever have to use. And on soap for washing our messy clothes - that's a huge expense. My 50+ pounds of meat cost about $6. If you work out the one-time cost of a gun, assuming a hunter owns their own rather than using someone else's, which is a lot more common than you think, against multiple animals, it's still much, much cheaper than even raising your own calf or other food animals.
So please, don't pretend you know about how hunters all buy pricey gear. That's for rich city folk who talk a big game, daydream while reading hunting mags, pay game ranches for single hunts or get pricey yearly hunting leases far away from home, and for whom it's really their sport, not a way of feeding their family. That's not your "average" hunter who keeps a freezer full of meat they shot themselves.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Your right. Allow me to puke just at the thought in the meantime.
Have a nice afternoon.
Daemonaquila
(1,712 posts)Nope, not one single photo. Never wanted one. Neither does the man who taught me. Neither do others I know. We take photos of LIVING animals and cherish them. We also eat animals we kill. The false dichotomy you're trying so desperately to create doesn't fit with reality, rather like the fundies trying to deny global warming because that's what their ideology calls for, and science and reality be damned.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Damn right, and I'm proud of it!
And how can you say you "cherish animals", when you shoot them, killing them or leaving them injured suffering for days?? Really curious of your answer.
Daemonaquila
(1,712 posts)No point in talking to people who have created a fantasy to hate, to make themselves feel superior. Do explain how your reasoning process differs from a Westboro fanatic who KNOWS they're morally superior to one of those homo-sinners who's going to buuuuurn in hellllll, because GAWD said so.
Yep, I cherish animals. I also know biology, fully understand the concepts of predator and prey, rehabilitate animals who eat other animals, and have no problem with the idea that we are omnivores whose bodies are adapted to eat BOTH animal and non-animal material. I have no problem with being just another animal in the food chain, knowing that I too will be eaten someday (at least by bugs). I would no more decide that it's wrong for me or anyone else to eat meat, than I would wag a finger at a lion or a hawk for eating another animal.
My intellect allows me to cherish animals and my intellectual honesty allows me to see them as my natural food source. It also allows me to decide how and when I will choose to eat my natural food sources, and whether I want to eat an animal that was mistreated in a factory farm and fed unhealthy things for it and for me, or whether I would rather take the personal responsibility for killing one as quickly and humanely as possible, which has had a natural life in the wild. Most of all, my intellectual honesty doesn't lead me to put myself, as apparently you have, in a different category than the rest of the animals, one that can't possibly go catch and eat another creature because it's automatically "wrong" to do what animals do every day.
As for "leaving them injured suffering for days?" What conversation have YOU been having? Hunters don't do that. A hunter's greatest fear, when learning the craft, is causing that. A hunter's thought, as she pulls the trigger, is to be certain that the shot will be true. A hunter will ensure that in the worst case, worst error, that animal will be found with all speed and dispatched rather than leaving it to suffer. Once again, your imagined demon that you've labeled "hunter" is completely out of step with reality.
So, go learn some biology. Go educate yourself about hunters and hunting with something other than a PETA video. I'd invite you to go volunteer at a wildlife rehabilitation facility and actually LEARN something about animals, but actually, I hope you don't because the last thing a hurt animal, especially a carnivore, needs, is someone pretending to care for it who can't handle feeding it a live animal or killing one to feed it when it's necessary.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)No one is making crap about anything. Reality speaks for itself.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)If you are against it, then don't engage in it. But don't condemn others for doing it.
Go Vols
(5,902 posts)Maedhros
(10,007 posts)that homosexuals are all predatory pedophiles.
The OP has a vision in their head of hunters as morally bankrupt, murderous sociopaths taking joy in the suffering of animals. No matter how much others may explain differently, the OP is going to cling to that vision because it makes her feel morally superior to hunters.
Hierarchical self-esteem is a hell of a drug.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Anyone who describes feeling "excitement" while killing an innocent animal, is not someone I would like to interact with. Good riddance.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)It could apply to vegan to vegan just as well,or biker to biker or ...
None the less,he is correct.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Those trying to silence usus are the issue.
Orrex
(63,084 posts)darkangel218
(13,985 posts)And I don't know if he/she does apologize. . My OP was about fellow human beings.
Orrex
(63,084 posts)Here's your OP:
How many of them hunt only to obtain free/fresh meat, but do not greatly enjoy killing??? How many do you think go out there in the woods and apologize or even shed a tear when pulling the trigger?? Don't fool yourself!
I'm so sick of the "I'm hunting only for food" meme.
"But that's killing for food," some will say.
Ok, then: Domestic cats purr after killing mice and birds with no intention of eating them. DO they apologize? YouTube has videos of lions committing revenge killings--you can find them easily. Does a lion apologize after killing a cheetah that it doesn't intend to eat? Does a lion apologize for killing a competitor alpha male?
"But that's killing for a good reason," some will object.
And that's what it invariably comes down to: animals only do bad things for good reasons, while humans do bad things because humans are bad. Even when an animal does a bad thing for a bad reason, it's blamed on bad humans driving the good animal to badness.
I'm sick of the foolish Disney-flavored worship of animals. It's juvenile and demeaning both to animals and to humans.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)You're the one chasing "goals" by bringing cows in the mix.
You're sick of Disney flavored worships of animals"?? You consider worship when someone cares of a said animal lives or dies? Holy shit...
Orrex
(63,084 posts)I've read your posts on this subject previously, and you never fail to delight with your rose-colored re-imagination of the world.
You only care when a human kills an animal for a reason that offends you. Your objective is to scold humans for doing something that you don't like, and you've adopted a farcical approach to do it, along with a bogus moralistic pseudo-justification.
Having read many of your previous posts, I think it likely that you'll now complain about me telling you what you think, and you might even roll out the ad hominem objection that I'm "mansplaining." I invite me to prove me wrong:
Show me where you have objected to bottlenose dolphins torturing seals, or to sea otters raping other otters, for instance. Show me that you've fought to end these acts of cruelty. Show me that you actually care about animal cruelty, rather than simply objecting to humans, and I'll agree that maybe your opinion isn't as Disney-addled as I've described it.
But I won't hold my breath waiting.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)We don't know why dolphins hurt seals. Could be a theritorial thing. But we know why some hunt. Because they ENJOY IT. Not just because of obtaining meat. For them its a sport.
As a higher SPECIES we have a duty to evolve above that.
Orrex
(63,084 posts)If we can't know an animals motives, then we can't know those motives when they act with apparent cruelty nor when the act with apparent compassion, yet DU is littered with threads praising dogs for their loyalty and heroism, along with their much-better-than-human-kindness. Sorry--but you're trying to have it both ways.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Thats explains all your posts.
Obviously that's how you feel, you can't change that. Sad.
Orrex
(63,084 posts)Last edited Wed Jul 29, 2015, 06:48 PM - Edit history (1)
You can't--and your inability to see that your beliefs are not, in fact, objective fact explains all of your posts, and that's what's really sad.
As is typical for you, you ignored the bulk of my post because you can't refute it; instead, you latch onto a minor--and frankly indisputable--point and play it up for its supposed emotional impact, and I don't doubt that you'll impress some uncritical readers as you usually do.
Your assumption that your aesthetic preferences are some kind of moral absolute are all the evidence anyone needs that you're unable to see beyond your own ego.
And you haven't done anything to support your point, either. Whatever you might think it is.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Since you can't engage in a civil conversation, I wish you nice day.
Orrex
(63,084 posts)Note that I am not asserting that my aesthetic sensibility is obective fact; rather, I am describing your posting style in a way that can be demonstrated by reviewing your posting history.
If you judge that to be a personal attack, then perhaps you should reevaluate your posting style.
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)but in Alaska it's a lot - other than the rich Outsiders who come up here to bag their grizzly or whatever. I do not care for those people.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)And showed their true colours.
Thank you.
xmas74
(29,658 posts)That I was raised in a rural setting? That maybe I'm just not as sophisticated as you? That I actually know where my groceries come from?
I don't hunt but I know many that do. I garden and many of the hunters also garden. I used to fish, though I haven't in years. I bake my own bread, I know local farmers who sell me their eggs and raw milk. I have been to the bee hives where my honey comes from. I go to local orchards for fruits whenever possible. I eat very little meat because it's expensive, though I've considered fishing again to fill the freezer. I can get the equipment from my parents. There are a couple of decent spots within one-two miles of my house so I could walk or ride a bike. I could also go with a friend. The total cost out of pocket would be around $10 yearly, the price of a license.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)You're only assuming things and missing the point. But nevertheless, have a great evening.
xmas74
(29,658 posts)and you damn well know it.
You thought you'd have a hundred rec's on this thread and that everyone would fawn over you. Well, that didn't happen, your pride is hurt and you've decided to put your own spin on things, to make it seem as though this was all "some big plan".
Maybe it's time for you to take all your toys and go home for the night since you cannot handle someone else thinking differently than you.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Obviously you don't know me, I dont post for recs. Take your hatered elsewhere.
xmas74
(29,658 posts)Most here know that I'm not a hateful person by any means.
Most people want validation. They want to connect with other, likeminded people. You either wanted validation or you wanted to stir the pot. Which one was it? I'd like to think that you wanted validation because I cannot stomach pot stirrers.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)So anyone who you don't agree with wants either "validation" or they want to "stir the pot"?? Wow!
xmas74
(29,658 posts)If you didn't give a damn about what I thought you'd just quit replying.
Me? I'm just a bit bored. I have the week off of work. I put dinner in the crock pot early this morning and it's ready. I cleaned the house, washed and hung the laundry on the line to dry, weeded the garden and picked a cuke for dinner. I walked to the farmer's market this morning and picked up a cantaloupe, then went to the local library to get my name on a waiting list for a book. Cats are napping during the heat of the day, kid is doing her drills at band camp and I'm just hanging out. When the kid gets home tonight I need to fix a few hems on her clothes.
This conversation is just a break for me from the ho-hum of a hot summer day. I haven't invested myself all that much. You, otoh, seem to be taking everything to heart. If it's that upsetting for you then maybe you need to step back for a bit and get some air.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Like I said, take your hatred elsewhere. Your flamebait posts mean 0 to me .
Have a nice evening.
xmas74
(29,658 posts)If you really didn't want to talk you'd quit replying. I would have a long time ago. Today, I have time to kill.
As to flamebait that would be your OP and nearly every single post you've made in this thread. Really? Pot, meet kettle.
I did see where you finally had your first rec on this thread. Too bad you had to do it yourself. Sorry.
And this has been a nice evening so far.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Take it elsewhere.
xmas74
(29,658 posts)I haven't said anything mean. I'm not following you from one thread to another. I'm not starting new threads about you. You keep replying to me and I just keep replying back.
I don't have to take it elsewhere. I've done nothing wrong. If you have a problem with it alert on me. Maybe I'll finally have my first ever deleted post.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)xmas74
(29,658 posts)and wonder why people don't agree with you? Then when others don't agree you are rude and nasty. When called on the nastiness you keep pushing, refusing to just give up.
If it were just me I'd have stopped long ago but you've been nasty to so many in this thread. I don't understand such nastiness and why you think you should be allowed to act that way. If I get a post deleted I'd be proud of it today.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Most people are not hunters.
You should have your post hidden for calling someone else's post a * flamebait*.
xmas74
(29,658 posts)It doesn't bother me.
Of course, you'd have to acknowledge that you called me flamebait.
they should get their post hidden? hell, it should be your username!
Now I'm really having fun.
fadedrose
(10,044 posts)I'm not missing the point
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7023712
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Jul 29, 2015, 05:13 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Well the comment is certainly rude but, hey, free speech. We are all allowed to our opinion. OP was hot under the collar and the commentor was too. Chill out folks... calm down...
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't see targeting the 4th or 5th back-and-forth in a snarky exchange in an OP pretty much designed to be inflammatory as the one to be hidden
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Frankly, rather than just hide post, I'd rather hide the entire thread. What made the OP think that this thread wasn't degenerate into a "less filling/tastes great" type of argument?
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I've seen worse on DU.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Yes, it's a personal attack, and I don't like hiding this one, because the writer was told she was "missing the point," which was rather unkind. The writer described a hard life with little frills, and knows well why some people hunt...they can't afford meat. Hide, but grudgingly.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
xmas74
(29,658 posts)It's a bit of a compliment.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Can't believe they would alert on that.
Kali
(54,990 posts)or was it blank?
xmas74
(29,658 posts)It seems like the jury results include the original message from the alerter.
fadedrose
(10,044 posts)it said "Personal Attack"
nothing more, just that.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)I would imagine that the overwhelming majority of US hunters are hunting for the thrill of the kill, not to feed their families.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Sissyk
(12,665 posts)I'm sorry you are sick of it; but, it will be around for a long time.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)I live in Florida, I know majority have hunting "parties",
they enjoy it greatly and always take photos. It's not just the meat they're after, is the excitement they feel, just like another poster above stated.
Sissyk
(12,665 posts)I can say I don't know anyone that has hunting "parties". I do know lots of people that get together and go hunting in groups, or in pairs.
Nothing wrong with that.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)They all enjoy it. I have never heard of any hunter who didn't take pride or bragged about how much fun hunting is. So that.
Sissyk
(12,665 posts)We'll you hang around the wrong people if you hang around hunters that drink and hunt.
So, what's wrong with BBQ parties, again?
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)This is not about BBQ and partying. It's about understanding that they hunt for THRILL and excitement. They don't just do it for food.
Sissyk
(12,665 posts)Drinking and hunting do not mix. Ever!
Lots of hunters do it for the food. Lots of hunters do it for the excitement. Lots of hunters do it for the food and the excitement.
My dad was a huge fisherman. We always ate all the fish he caught, had friends and neighbors over for fish-frys, or gave away what we couldn't eat. It's a big job cleaning and putting up all the different kinds of fish he caught. ANd, yes. He had a fishing photo album. From late '60's to around 1998. Every other picture you could see these two young children sticking there faces in with Dad every chance the could.
It's a way of like where I'm from; and as totally different from the lion killer as you could ever get.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)So you admit they enjoy it. Killing a perfectly happy and healthy wild animal.
They should go play a video game if they want excitement, not ending animal lives.
Sissyk
(12,665 posts)Do you think the only "excitement" a hunter can feel is when they release the arrow or pull the trigger? That's only one very small part of the hunting experience.
video games - terribly, terribly violent; and, turns out many violent criminals. (See, I can do it too!)
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Where else would they get excitement from?? Eating the meat?? Let's be serious now.
And video games don't kill. Hunting rifles do.
Sissyk
(12,665 posts)This is America after all.
Just as I, and my family and friends, are free to hunt and eat our food as long as we follow the rules.
pssst - I really don't believe video games cause criminals to commit crimes. Just trying to show how different people can have different beliefs.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)xmas74
(29,658 posts)It's going to be so good-I can't wait.
Sissyk
(12,665 posts)Have a great time, xmas74!
I've been informed that everyone is casting lines and that we'll cook just a bit. If we get plenty the plan is to split what hasn't been cooked off between everyone to take home and freeze.
RandySF
(57,632 posts)But, outside of Alaska, I doubt that it is a necessity. By the way, I'll never forget Sarah plain talking about the freezer getting bare prior to a moose hunt. Really? They couldn't afford to stop by the Wasila Wal Mart?
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)I have much more respect for those who hunt than whose who eat factory farmed meat and judge hunters.
BTW, I am not taking about the 'trophy' assholes. I am in WI so we have a fuckton of actual hunters who ALWAYS eat or donate what they hunt and enjoy the sport of hunting more than the 'kill'.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)"Sport of hunting" you say? Hunting should be a sad thing. That we have to end a life, only to provide life sustaining nutrients.
Have a nice day
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)taking only what you need, no more, no less.
If you're a vegetarian I totally get how you have a problem with eating meat/killing animals, but I still say that carnivores who hunt their meat are far far more humane and deserve far more respect than those who only buy their meat from a store. I don't know why you are so much more judgmental of them vs those who have zero connection and limited to no understanding with what they are eating.
I really struggle with why (non 'trophy') hunters get such shit from people like you.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Let's not even go there. Hope you have a nice afternoon.
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)I don't know why you keep ignoring the rest of what I posted, but whatev.
Nature includes the "circle of life". Animals hunt and kill for sustenance. People have hunted and gathered for sustenance since the beginning of time.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Hunters know what they're doing, that they're ending lives, yet they still love it and feel excitement when doing the deed. Hunting shouldn't be a "game". We are humans and have evolved enough to know better and not enjoy killing. Unless there is something wrong with us
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)So are you purporting that hunters are somehow 'worse' than people who go to the local Piggly Wiggly and hand over their cash for meat that was raised on horrible factory farms? You keep ignoring and dancing around that part if the equation.
Look, if people are going to be carnivores (and they will be), I would think you would MUCH prefer that they hunt the meat they eat and only eat meat they hunt. In fact, I would think you would insist that if they eat meat it should only be meat they hunted.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)if your uncle Joe goes out hunting or not.
Why contribute to the death and suffering ofof even more animals???
And just FYI, not all animals shot in hunting trips die.Some agonize for days, even weeks. It's a horrible way to go!!!
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)Game wardens and the DNR are not people to fuck with.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)It actually happens all the time, where the shot only injures, and the hunters try to find the wounded animal to "finish him off" , as they call it. Go look it up.
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)xmas74
(29,658 posts)That's not someone I'd want to mess with-ever.
Spirochete
(5,264 posts)Probably hardly any.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)darkangel218
(13,985 posts)What us, as individuals do, is within our control.
Why then would anyone add to the slaughter???
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)I stand by my assessment that hunting is far more respectable and I would encourage MORE people to hunt and far FAR fewer factory farms.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Lmao!!!!! Wow
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)darkangel218
(13,985 posts)It makes no difference if hunters hunt or not, meat farms won't go away any time soon.
Hunters are the ones who have a choice in whether they will add to the death and suffering or not.
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)Or at least acceptable, less bad. That's what you're implying and that's what I find gross.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)We can't stop factory farms ( not anytime soon ). But we can educate people and stop hunting.
Why are you twisting my words?
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)Sissyk
(12,665 posts)So, now what?
Spirochete
(5,264 posts)I think there's something seriously wrong with all of them, to enjoy killing relatively helpless things for their own fun and vanity. But when it comes to something that might be shooting back, then they report to the draft board with their Levis chock full of shit.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Thank you.
aikoaiko
(34,127 posts)I don't go hunting, but I do fish and I love the social aspect, the skills, the gear, the fresh meat, and the connectedness I feel with nature when I catch, kill, prepare, cook, and eat something. The connectedness is the same feeling I get when I grow vegies.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)You feel the power of the fish and are challenged to land him before she throws the hook. I also enjoy eating themthem, though in reality,most I throw back due to size and species limitations.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)So long as they are are hunting ethically, I have no problem with it. In fact, they can, and often are, an important part of maintaining a healthy ecology in the absence of natural predators.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)And what's ethical about killing or wounding wild animals?? Some animals suffer for days , weeks or even months before finally succumbing their wounds.
Excuse me, if I don't find hunting ethical! Because it's not.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Hunting is a personal choice. And it's a wrong choice. It only depends on the individual if they chose to add or not to add to the death and suffering.
Not to mention many hunters only injure, and the animals suffwr for days and weeks in agonizing pain, before dying.
For ms its rather a simple choice. Sorry it is so hard for you.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)gollygee
(22,336 posts)PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)something I will never understand. I think it's a shameful preference. The OP has stopped responding in this thread but is sending her reply to me via PM now.
Odd.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)I suggest you look up what happens when a deer population is out of control.
- Devastated vegetation.
- Herd starvation. Also the starvation of the other animals dependent on the same food sources as the deer.
- Inbred deer populations.
- Deer strikes on the roadways all over the place.
We've eliminated the natural predators in most populated areas.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Your excuses don't hold, sorry.
Fuck hunting!!
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)But not as a much of a shame as a starving deer population.
You a classic case of emotion over brains.
quaker bill
(8,223 posts)But I have no problem with it. I just find the mix of rednecks, beer, and high powered weapons discomforting. Around here there are not enough effective hunters to even begin to control the populations of the game species.
The animals they hunt and eat were raised humanely and "cage free".
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Yah, really wonderful.
quaker bill
(8,223 posts)The guys I know are quite good shots and carry sufficient firepower. They largely hunt feral hogs, which are not native and destroy habitat for the native species. Properly dressed and smoked low and slow however, they are quite tasty.
Since hunters alone are simply not up to the task, conservation biologists take over, and usually donate the meat to feed the homeless. Now we can blame the Spanish for this, as they brought the hogs here in the 16th century and then lost control of them...
Even with all that, no bag limit, and a year round season on feral hogs, they are so fecund bearing litters of up to 10, that it is not enough to control the population.
I don't do it, but I have no objection to it. I do not require your approval, its OK, I will be just fine without it.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)Food stamps don't pay much, and if you've been handed down a gun from a parent or grandparent, it doesn't cost much to hunt - certainly not as much as it would cost to buy as much meat as you get. I've known quite a few people who have used food stamps for everything but meat and have pretty excusively eaten venison and fish otherwise.
xmas74
(29,658 posts)I mentioned a friend upthread who hunts, fishes, forages and gardens to cover most of the food budget for him and his kids. He buys milk and eggs from a local farmer and buy very few things from the store-mostly spices and some things he can't get from the other actions in our area. (Flour, sugar, yeast,citrus, canning supplies including pectin, etc. He buys school party snacks because the school doesn't allow home made snacks.) He was given his gun since his dad is getting too old to hunt (bad knees), he purchased an inexpensive fishing set-pole, line, filled tackle box-at Walmart, he rations his ammo and pays for his legal licenses h needs. Still cheaper than a month's worth of groceries for the average family of five.
The OP's response? He spends tons of money on his professional hunting. He's not a professional hunter.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Can't be broke in Alaska without either hunting or relying on people who do. And I enjoyed it more than the alternative of going hungry. Which I've also done before. I don't recommend it.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)I imagine for others who eat their kills, a rifle cartridge is a good deal cheaper than the store price of the meat it can collect. Which is good for stretching what they have.
If you want to talk about trophy hunters though? Those guys should be fed to large cats. it'd be poetic and the cats need the help.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)You are an exception to the norm.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)And while I don't doubt that I'm an exception to many norms, I don't think you're well-qualified to judge that.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)I hope you have one as well.
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)It's far worse for the environment as well as far less ethical.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Can you stop factory farming, Nikki? I bet you can't . what you can change is your support for additional , unnecessary killings which hunting brings upon our animal population.
Please at least think about it.
And then consider vegetarian diet.
It is a lot healthier than eating meat.
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)That's a terrible argument. We should encourage more meat eaters to hunt their own meat vs buying it. Not the other way around. Ever.
I stand by my assessment that hunting is far more respectable and I would encourage MORE people to hunt and far FAR fewer factory farms. And I find it sad that you have the opposite opinion only because it "can't be stopped".
JustAnotherGen
(31,681 posts)My husband does. We like rabbit and venison and duck - So be it.
Do they shed a tear? Nope - circle of life.
Telcontar
(660 posts)Deer and elk are awesome. And I enjoy it. It is atavistic.
RebelOne
(30,947 posts)I was a copy editor for 35 national hunting and fishing magazines, and it was all about trophy hunting. Woe be it to any buck with a 10-point or more rack.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)growing and picking a tomato.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)arely staircase
(12,482 posts)Kali
(54,990 posts)baby in a washing machine has so much more potential
xmas74
(29,658 posts)We need to take it old school for the classics, like breastfeeding, Olive Garden in NYC or even cornflake coating on fried chicken. I know I posted in all of those back in the day.
malokvale77
(4,879 posts)I can however say, most hunters I know have quit because they were sick of those that had no clue what to do with the animal they just killed.
ileus
(15,396 posts)I'm too lazy to engage in trying to "trophy" hunt. We have room enough in the freezer for a few deer, a turkey or two, and maybe a few grouse and rabbits every year.
For my hunting is a good way to kill time until fishing season rolls back around. Only we don't keep fish, we only fish for sport.
10 hours on the yak this weekend my son and I caught 35 Smallies....
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)I remember getting up really early and seeing a couple dead deer on the cold dewy lawn.
It horrified me then as much as the thought of it does now.