The ‘Terror Gap’ Has Fierce Gun Rights Defenders in a Bind

[flamin lib]

The recent attacks in Paris, carried out primarily with AK-47 Kalashnikov assault rifles, have drawn attention to a potential gap in America’s own national security. As it stands, persons on the FBI’s terrorist watch list can legally purchase firearms in the United States — their status is not accounted for in the federal background check system. Over the last 11 years, according to the Government Accountability Office, more than 2,000 people on the list have procured weapons through this loophole.

And since 2007, there have been periodic legislative efforts to close it, all of which have failed in the face of opposition from the National Rifle Association and hardline GOP lawmakers.

http://www.thetrace.org/2015/11/terror-gap-nra-republicans-background-checks/

[Kber]

1. Talk about being caught between an extremist rock and a right wing hard place.

What to do?

[Eleanors38]

2. What's the bind? ASSAULT RIFLES are tightly regulated and hard to come by in U.S...

Were FULLY-AUTO Assault Rifles used in the Paris attacks?

We have in this country a Fifth Amendment, which guarantees DUE PROCESS before one's rights are abrogated. That so-called "terrorist watch lists," "No-fly lists," have been promulgated by the government doesn't lessen that fact, anymore than one's First Amendment rights are curtailed because they belong to an organization which believes in the violent overthrow of the government (see: McCarthy Era, passim).

The "loophole" the semi-constitutional-rights-backing Trace speaks of is actually a back door for the government to infringe one Constitutional rights.

Please reference the Fifth Amendment.

[flamin lib]

3. Defending the indefensible. Cause gunz is special. nt

[hack89]

5. The Constitution is special.

Fond a way to add due process to the no fly lists and I am behind you.

[Eleanors38]

7. So, how do you feel about the 5th Amendment, flamin "lib?"

How 'bout those watch lists? The BushCo no-fly lists? You like those? I'll wait.

[Logical]

10. We get it, guns are a priority to you. Nt

[Eleanors38]

12. No answer? Then perhaps you DON'T support the Fifth. Wanna drop that Amendment, too?

[sarisataka]

4. Because sometime secret

Non-reviewable, non-appealable lists are progressive; if they can be used against gunz.

But we will make Republicans double-promise and pinky swear to never use such a list except to limit travel or buy gunz. Maybe warrantless wiretapping or searches, but not much else.

It's for our own good and safery.

Isn't it funny how easy it is to justify giving up more rights once you get past surrendering that first one?

I fear the terrorists much less than people judging what is in my best interests.

[Lizzie Poppet]

6. This remains a sticky question.

Preventing suspected terrorists from legally obtaining weapons seems like a slam dunk. However, the "watch list" used is so enormous - 1.5 million names and growing like a weed - that it's use for this purpose creates a big problem. Obviously only a tiny fraction of those 1.5 million are actually genuine terror risks (otherwise we'd be having daily incidents...). That means that the large part of 1.5 million people have been placed on that list with dubious justification (I'd wager that "looking Middle Eastern" is the justification in most cases). I read that over 98% of the nominations to the list are approved, and the numbers are so big that obviously the vetting process is perfunctory.

Using this list as it stands requires the denial of an enumerated constitutional right without due process. A much better, more meticulously created watch list wouldn't entirely eliminate that issue, but a more intensive process for being placed on the list could be considered "due process" (if one's being a bit generous). I'm all for adding appearance on the watch list as a disqualifying criterion in the NICS database...but we have to clean up the damn list, for this and several other reasons.*

* One of those reasons is to make the list actually useful to human analysts. Currently, it's far too big (and is largely made up of false hits). Useful for someone running a query, but useless for someone trying to intuit patterns from the data.

[Eleanors38]

9. The late Sen Edward Kennedy (D) was on a no-fly list. For months.

[Dr. Strange]

8. LOL: Denying Firearms and Explosives to Dangerous Terrorists Act of 2015

Um, Feinstein, if they're really dangerous terrorists...why aren't you trying to put them in jail?

[Eleanors38]

11. That's the puzzle: Investigate, prosecute, jail terrorists. American Way.

But Feinstein (and evidently others in DU) want to use the Fifth Amendment Loop Hole to do something, somewhere, some how. (Usually, a fast & cheap -- and unConstitutional -- skidrow for prohibitionists.)