I am a little behind on the news, questions about the SB shootings

[Kali]

what happened/who was the third person that was supposedly apprehended when the shoot-out at the vehicle happened?

was Farook handcuffed like one photo seems to show? what was the explanation for that?

this thing is weird. and now just saw the story about the former neighbor/friend that bought some of the guns.

[darkangel218]

1. Lol

No he wasn't "handcuffed" and then shot .If he was handcuffed at all it was after. It's standard procedure

[Kali]

2. and that is funny?

[Texasgal]

5. Wonder what's on tap tonight?

Cheap Vodka or Coors light?

[darkangel218]

7. Don't know, why don't you tell me?

[Texasgal]

9. Cheap Vodka again?

[darkangel218]

11. I don't drink liquor, so again, is that what you're having?

[Kali]

17. doubt that one could handle vodka

I mean think about what the coors light does

[darkangel218]

20. "That one"

Oh my, someone has a sad!

Enjoy your drinks, ladies!

[darkangel218]

6. If you think that he was cuffed before being shot, yes.

[Kali]

16. did I say that?

you are displaying your reading comprehension and conclusion-jumping problems again.

[darkangel218]

18. What else did you mean by it then?

Assuming you know that cuffing a suspect after being taken down is normal procedure.

[Kali]

21. try reading the thread

and no, I don't know that is normal procedure.

none of the recent big news stories of cop shootings that I have seen had the dead person cuffed.

do you have any evidence or is it just your "law enforcement" ( ) background?

[darkangel218]

23. OK, then I'm happy to enlighten you that they do cuff suspects after taking them down.

As standard procedure.

YW.

[Kali]

26. no links, just your assertion? LOL

I guess I will wait for someone credible to answer.

[darkangel218]

28. Whatever fits you.

[TorchTheWitch]

48. it is normal procedure to cuff a suspect

after they've been shot when that suspect has demonstrated violence toward police officers or anyone else. This is so that it is not assumed they are down and out and be able to take out a weapon or pick up and shoot the one that fell when they did, detonate a bomb, etc. It makes sense, and is not only for the safety of the officers but anyone else in the vicinity.

In this particular case, as I understand it Farook did not perish immediately and was still breathing when removed from the vehicle and cuffed. Not that it matters whether he still kicking and screaming or had his entire head shot off his shoulders, but there are procedures for a reason. Frankly, after someone had just shot at me, I'd WANT to make damn well sure they couldn't do any more violence. I can't even begin to imagine what it would be like to have to stay calm, cool and collected after first discovering that such a heinous act occurred but to be shot at by the perpetrators as they tried to escape and do who knows what other despicable acts. I honestly don't know if I could just cuff the perp and not lose it and kick their head off their neck in fury and terror. I guess that's why I wouldn't do a cop's job for anything.

As for the "third suspect" as it turned out there wasn't one though it took quite some time to discover this. Apparently, there was someone so freaked out by all the shooting that they went running off hopping neighbors' fences in the area and traveling through yards to get away from the scene. Probably more than one person called 911 with the assumption (and rightly so) that this person was part of the crime. As I understand it, at least in the beginning, it was being reported that someone in the building or in the room where the murderers were shooting that it was three people doing it which certainly would have added to the confusion of how many perps there were. In the end it turned out to be only two murderers that carried out this horrific act, but it took quite some time for that to become clear.

And now I can't remember what your other questions were, and anyway, I need to go pee.

[Kali]

49. thanks

I found the info on cuffing and of course it makes sense. (though I still wonder about possible explosives on the bodies as a general question)

I pretty much had that stuff on the third person from the press conferences that evening. The sheriff or police chief (the bald guy) was clear that they did not know if it was a suspect or a bystander, but never saw anything conclusive about it after that.

[TorchTheWitch]

50. you're very welcome

As to possible explosives on the bodies, well, this is just one more thing that makes police work hazardous. They need to check for concealed weapons and explosive devices, and the only safe way to do that is to make sure the first thing they do with the perp is cuff them so they can't draw a weapon or detonate an explosive device.

Though it may seem silly to cuff a suspect when they're very obviously dead one of the reasons to always follow procedure is so that there is never a situation where wrong decisions are made since wrongly assuming the suspect is absolutely dead and they aren't and they detonate an explosive or manage to shoot or stab you or someone else... well, that's obviously a huge problem. Another reason is what is called "muscle memory". In such a situation humans naturally feel tremendous fear, anger, shock, panic, etc., and to still be able to function appropriately, the drilled procedure kicks in so that your body will just automatically do what it has been drilled to do in X circumstance.

I've known about muscle memory since my early years in ballet... it was a term meaning that regardless of how paralyzed with stage fright you may be the body remembers the steps. I imagine all performers that have difficulty with stage fright know about muscle memory. Ever found yourself singing a song you've sung scads of time and realize you're in the third verse but your mind had been wandering yet you know you sang all the right words in the right tune? That's muscle memory. I watched a segment I think the day after the attacks about what to do in the event of a shooting situation, and they mentioned muscle memory... if you drill enough times, should it actually ever occur your body will just remember what you need to do even though studies show that in terrifying situations 80% of people freeze, and in a shooter situation freezing even for just a few seconds can mean the difference of surviving or not.

God, what is the country coming to when we need to drill for shooter situations like fire drills. Ugh.

Once again we can thank the sound bite media for dropping the ball on following up on the third suspect story... once they got Farook's name they went flying off in that direction finding it far more important to tell us all about the toys of the baby in the apartment they should never have been in rather than following up on the suspected third shooter. Since I don't watch the tv and get all my info from the 'net I had to dig to find out the third suspect didn't exist, and it's still rather murky about how and why this third person was suspected and searched for. Every day the media in this country gets worse, but I've been fuming over the lack of follow up on stories for decades particularly with my local news.

Gah, I just realized how late it had gotten and I have to be up at the crack of before dawn.

Night.

[tammywammy]

22. You're assuming things never said

It reads to me that Kali did not think it was SOP to have him handcuffed.

For all your complaining about Kali, you sure aren't doing yourself any favors here.

[darkangel218]

24. She asked a question, I answered.

[Squinch]

30. WTF? Lol??

[Texasgal]

3. I agree, this story is a bit weird.

From what I understand Farook was handcuffed AFTER being shot I assume to make sure he was no longer a threat?

The third shooter was an eye witness account that has not been verified fully.

The dude that checked himself in mental facility has me perplexed as well.

This is not the gospel, just from what I gather. Very weird story all the way around.

[Kali]

12. yeah the new info just seems to get stranger

with each article.

so he WAS indeed cuffed? I wasn't even sure about the image, the way the internet is these days.

the guy was pretty dead looking so I would think getting near a possibly booby trapped corpse to hand cuff it would be riskier than just leaving it...

[Texasgal]

19. True.

I am not sure if this was immediate cuffing or not. And yes, you are right about photos and the net. I'm not sure we'll ever get the official story. The photo I saw sure looked like a cuffed person.. but then again.. Who knows?

The thing that get's me is this weird back and forth about this being a terrorist act or workplace violence. They had rounds and rounds of amo along with vests and pipe bombs!! Dropping the kid off, renting a vehicle, wearing masks. Just seems odd that this would be a workplace violence issue.

[onecaliberal]

43. The guy who checked into the mental

Hospital is a former neighbor and good friend of male shooter and it is believe he sold the male shooter the guns.

[Skittles]

4. they got a couple of the weapons from a gun humping piece of SHIT neighbor

or something like that

[Kali]

8. skittles!

we may not agree on guns in general but I fucking love your attitude

[Skittles]

15. I think it needs to be researched why there are so many COWARDS

and why America insists on kowtowing to those fucking COWARDS

[Squinch]

31. .

[840high]

35. who then checked himself into a mental hospital

[Skittles]

39. something a LOT of gun humpers need to do

[840high]

45. think this one is just avoiding the FBi.

[Nevernose]

10. A list of weird stuff

Which I originally posted to a different thread:

Let me preface this by saying that I'm not a conspiracy theorist, nor am I espousing any theories.

Multiple witnesses reported three shooters (other posters are correct in saying how terrible eyewitness ID is).
The wife's "allegiance to ISIS? Not made on her regular FB account, but one that was pseudonymous and no one else knew about.
The post was deleted, which makes it, at the very least, pretty shitty terrorism.
There were pipe bombs found at the house, but none were ever used. Is it normal for terrorists to build bombs they're not planning on using?
No major organizations took believable credit.
They only killed the husband's coworkers.
They killed them within an hour of him arguing with the cowothers.

Again: not espousing CTs, just saying its unusual.

[Kali]

14. me either, CT and woo are not my thing at all

but like you said - some strange details coming out of this

last I was following intently, they had this third person in hand, not sure if they were a bystander, an accomplice or what. but then I never saw any follow up about it.

[darkangel218]

13. K&R!

[tammywammy]

25. Your laughing about questions regarding a mass shooting is unbecoming.

Not everyone can watch/listen/read the news 24/7.

[darkangel218]

27. No, I'm laughing about the CT questions.

(My FB was flooded by these today.)

But you already knew that.

[tammywammy]

29. I don't see any CT questions, just questions.

I have no idea what your FB feed looks like, I'm neither your friend nor would I want to be.

[Texasgal]

32. Pay no mind to the happy hour queen.

Such a victim... BOO HOO.

[darkangel218]

37. You keep talking about "happy hours"

Projection at its max lmao!!!

[darkangel218]

33. I never said you know my Facebook.

The CT such as a "third shooter", and Farook cuffed ( which is normal standard procedure, if that even happened)..

And about the " friends" thing, trust me, the feeling is mutual

[tammywammy]

36. ....

My FB was flooded by these today.

But you already knew that.

I'm only responding to your statement. "But you already knew that," immediately follows a statement about your FB feed.

The day of the shooting there was discussion about a third shooter and questions on why a dead person would be cuffed all seem like normal questions from someone that's admitted they haven't kept up with the news.

[darkangel218]

38. I was referring to the CT which was mentioned ahead.

My bad, I should have used parentheses. Fixed!

[Kali]

40. this from someone who posts about the spirits of dead right wingers, UFOs, and mutant dolphins

sorry, I don't spend all day on FB and I sure as hell don't stalk you on there like you did to me.

[darkangel218]

41. Yup, and you think GMOs are safe.

[Kali]

46. as usual, an overly simplistic mistatement of my position

keep on adding to your "credibility"

[darkangel218]

47. You do the same!

[Kali]

34. for those that might be following the idiotic exchange above (or ignoring it, but curious)

I found this quoted at this page - http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2014/08/why-cops-handcuff-dead-people.html

Lesson 8: Handcuff all downed suspects. Some officers might feel that it is not nice to handcuff suspects that have been shot, and others might believe that it is unnecessary to cuff all suspects because some are “obviously” dead. Counted among the suspects shot during incidents that officers reported during the VALOR interviews were some who appeared to be dead—for example, from multiple rifle rounds to the head—but who were still alive. As noted in the introduction, some human beings have a remarkable capacity to survive gunshot wounds. Fortunately, none of the thoughtdead offenders managed to injure any officers interviewed, but the fact that they were still alive meant that they maintained the capacity to do so. The capacity of downed suspects is hindered substantially when they are cuffed. No matter how severely injured they might be, therefore, all downed suspects should be handcuffed.

pretty much all you had to do there, dear

[Texasgal]

42. Thank you.

Good information.

This was kind of my thought in the beginning, they handcuffed him to make sure he was no longer a threat.

Still weird things with this story though.

[Kali]

44. yeah, I have seen some bad situations with animals before

so I can understand that in general, but these people may have - did? - have explosives so I wonder if there are different protocols now that suicide bombings are "in the universe" and a strong possibility in a potential terror type attack.

although at the time I suppose the police didn't really know much of anything about these people.