General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBlack Florida woman kicked out of hospital, ARRESTED for refusing to go, dies of blood clot
in her lung.
A damn blood clot in her lung and they kicked her out of the hospital?
Sometimes pulmonary embolisms occur without prior symptoms and then they can be hard to detect and treat. But this woman entered the hospital at 10:30 PM and died by 6 the next morning. They kicked her out without identifying or treating the blood clot in her lung but SHE knew she was in pain and couldn't breathe and they told her she was wrong
I have a relative who's had deep vein thrombosis, in a leg, and I know how careful the hospital was because it can go into your lungs and "instantly" kill you.
But this lady had symptoms for HOURS.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/barbara-dawson-florida-woman-dies-after-being-removed-hospital-n485186
Barbara Dawson, 57, went to Liberty Calhoun Hospital in Blountstown, Florida, to seek treatment for breathing problems. Police were called to the emergency room when Dawson, who had been discharged by physicians, refused to leave. She was charged with disorderly conduct and trespassing and was escorted out of the hospital in handcuffs.
Dawson then collapsed as she arrived at the officer's car.
"Our officer asked for help once he realized the patient did indeed appear to be unresponsive and had medical staff respond to Ms. Dawson," Blountstown Police Chief Mark Mallory said in a statement on Wednesday.
Dawson was readmitted to the emergency room where she was pronounced dead an hour later. The Florida state medical examiner ruled on Wednesday that she died from natural causes due to a blood clot in her lung.
Mallory told NBC News there is dashcam video from the officer's car. The video does not show the incident, he said, but it did pick up audio. He says the video will be released "in due time."
daleanime
(17,796 posts)take we have to change the path that we're on.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)The title as written by the newspaper staff written was totally sad and unforgiving. Another person died in police custody.
Kingofalldems
(38,468 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I notice you focus on the irrelevant in posts such as this. No doubt, you have your reasons...
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)Plus why are you going to my replies all the time? Seems weird. I don't do that and nobody else does either. Also I can focus on what I want. Critical thinking is important for most of us here.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)that the reporter's title said nothing about the police arresting her. Or her race. Or her blood clot.
My title contained more information than the headline writer's, except for not including the woman's name.
P.S. Reporters don't usually title their own work; that's an editorial job.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)You seem to believe your title are better. At the very least contact them and discuss their inadequate titles.
Kingofalldems
(38,468 posts)Mariana
(14,860 posts)Perhaps you're thinking of FR, where they insist the posters use the exact title of the article the post refers to.
daleanime
(17,796 posts)as you seem preoccupied.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)draa
(975 posts)Thanks for the read.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)pennylane100
(3,425 posts)Changing it as suggested would have been wrong.
Chemisse
(30,814 posts)Why do you care so much about this? There is plenty to comment on about the story itself.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)very little to do with the subject of a post?
Why would someone want to distract from the content, which I was obviously trying to summarize in the headline?
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)Anyway. I am glad to know we are allowed to change titles as I will for everyone of my OPs. Nice. Thanks for pointing that out.
Chemisse
(30,814 posts)I'm glad you at least learned something in this thread.
Or anything other than the rather generic "had trouble breathing."
Heck, I've had trouble breathing. And if a blood clot can be hard to diagnose, that hardly makes non-diagnosis intentional.
There'll be a review. Until then, we'll all jump on the obvious bandwagon and pass judgment (in hindsight, with much more information) on those who were there--doctors, nurses, and residents/interns.
So that when the review decides that what was done was reasonable, we'll already be rock-solid in our verdicts. Because we'd be so much better.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)And they insisted on kicking her out six hours later, even though she was telling them she couldn't breathe and was begging for oxygen.
A serious blood clot can occur without symptoms , making it hard to diagnose. But in her situation, she WAS having obvious symptoms. So they should have been getting to the bottom of her symptoms, not kicking her out.
malaise
(269,144 posts)or generally?
dgibby
(9,474 posts)I hope her family sues the crap out of them. As a retired RN, no hospital I ever worked in would have discharged her with those symptoms, much less have her arrested. I hope they have to support her entire family for the rest of their lives.
Chemisse
(30,814 posts)When the hospital asks to have someone removed, the police are obliged to respond. I doubt they are interested in second-guessing the medical personnel on whether the woman should be escorted out.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)she needed treatment -- no matter what the hospital was saying.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)hedgehog
(36,286 posts)in need of medical treatment as exaggerating symptoms and/or seeking drugs.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)Doctors have been shown to be less likely to take a woman's heart attack symptoms seriously; that probably goes for blood clots, too.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)RIP, Ms. Dawson.
On Edit: before opening the entire article and seeing a photo
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)I think it's relevant.
questionseverything
(9,657 posts)until healthcare is considered a human right this will continue
right now healthcare is about profits
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)doctors can make mistakes. But I'm guessing she had no insurance and that's why they were so quick to kick her out.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)My Mom was admitted into the hospital, fully insured, and the hospital was trying to discharge her after 2 days, despite falling hemo counts. Bottom line ... as long as our hospitals are constrained by cost, there will be premature discharges.
I have found that the formula is simple, diagnosis => median treatment time => discharge the patient, regardless of whether the patient is "cured" => Fill the bed with another patient.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)Were you able to keep her there as long as necessary?
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)interestingly, when I, a male, got there ... the urgency to discharge seemed to lower.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)Something tells me you were very persuasive . . . in addition to being male.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)My sister has been managing my Mom's care ... I have only been there to support her.
Chemisse
(30,814 posts)Part of it is that insurance companies limit how much time in the hospital that they will pay for, putting the medical personnel in the position of having to lobby insurance companies for more time, if needed.
questionseverything
(9,657 posts)if she had no insurance then it was about the hospitals profit, if she had insurance it was about the insurance companies profit
until we get this "for profit crap" out of healthcare and the justice system nothing will change
which is why i support bernie
valerief
(53,235 posts)took care us when we're sick, thanks to Saint Ronnie.
ronnie624
(5,764 posts)area51
(11,918 posts)shireen
(8,333 posts)I had a clot in my leg almost 13 years ago, a deep vein thrombosis. My experience was totally opposite -- immediately admitted, ultrasound to determine the extent of the clot (mid-calf to groin), started blood thinners. That lady deserved the same treatment, even more urgently, since the clot had already traveled to her lungs.
My doc once told me, 'it's hit or miss with ER doctors.' I've had many ER visits due to my illness. Some doctors were excellent. Others were dopes. One sent me home after I had lost a dangerous amount of blood. My neighbor drove me home. When we got out of the car, I almost passed out. So we returned, I was seen by another doctor who promptly admitted me.
My heart goes out to that lady's family. Her life could have been saved.
dlwickham
(3,316 posts)there's one doctor that works at both of the hospitals in my area; have had to deal with him twice because of my dad
the guy was a prick and wanted to pawn my dad off on someone else
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)whereisjustice
(2,941 posts)there is one.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)KentuckyWoman
(6,690 posts)She didn't die of natural causes due to a blood clot in her lung. She died because she is black and the hospital staff didn't give a shit.
If they had done their damn jobs to start with Barbara Dawson would likely still be alive.
Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)She was a black woman complaining of pain, so she must be looking for drugs.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)pnwmom
(108,990 posts)they didn't diagnose it or treat it at all -- even though breathlessness should have been a major clue.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)tblue37
(65,477 posts)charge, under threat of dismissal if they didn't get potentially expensive patients without insurance out *fast* and without performing costly tests on them first.
valerief
(53,235 posts)soldiers following orders in the ensuing Nuremburg trials.
zazen
(2,978 posts)Several studies on it. I had a white, blonde, rather well-to-do friend end up in ER last month, screaming in pain, who got completely ridiculed and dismissed by the ER doc on call because he thought she was drug shopping. After he did nothing for her and she got later tests, turns out stuff did show up on MRI on her spine, etc. The hospital won't follow through on her complaint.
I've known women throughout my life, myself included, who've been told our problems were psychiatric only to later demonstrate that they were clear medical, non psychiatric conditions. My mom nearly died from appendicitis because the doctors kept telling her she was just under a lot of stress.
When one compounds the suspicion of drug shopping and that all women exaggerate pain with the additional distrust aimed at African Americans, you get situations like this one. Money might have been an element too but I don't think this is all single-payer stuff. I think this is about invalidating women's experience (and women doctors in my experience have been just as bad, or worse, as men doctors at this).
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)But I find this interesting ...
Since the literature that I have read indicates that women tend toward being MORE pain tolerant than males.
Chemisse
(30,814 posts)is more that we are hypochondriacs, imagining or exaggerating symptoms, rather than pain.
PersonNumber503602
(1,134 posts)This guy was a bit lazy and shady too, and he tried prescribing me something. I explained to him I didn't want pills to cover up the symptoms of what was going on, but wanted to figure out the problem.
fasttense
(17,301 posts)I'm a woman and I hobbled over to the emergecy room telling the doctor I was pretty sure I had broken my ankle because the pain was so bad. (I had stepped into a hole while trying to keep my young children from falling into a lake.) He said I couldn't have been walking on it if it was broken but to be on the safe side, he sent me to get my ankle X rayed. I was sitting in the waiting room outside the X-ray room when the doctor came rushing over with a wheelchair. Seems he had seen the X-rays. I had all but pulled my foot off. My ankel was crushed to pieces. He wouldn't let me walk after that.
If I had been a man he would have believed I had broken my ankle.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)Ruth Attaway, administrator and CEO of the hospital told the Tallahassee Democrat that the staff did "everything they could" to save Dawson.
"Our staff was very aggressive with her treatment," Attaway told the newspaper.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)while she was begging for an oxygen tank.
I'm sure you noticed the irony, too.
Chemisse
(30,814 posts)After she collapsed and they realized that they had screwed up badly!
FuzzyRabbit
(1,969 posts)"Ruth Attaway, administrator and CEO of the hospital told the Tallahassee Democrat that the staff did "everything they could" to save Dawson.
"Our staff was very aggressive with her treatment," Attaway told the newspaper."
Yes, they "aggressively" kicked a seriously ill patient out of the hospital.
lpbk2713
(42,766 posts)They might have been fairly confident there was a problem when her
eyes were rolled back in her head and her vitals were off the charts.
rladdi
(581 posts)did they do an computerized tomography (CT) scan: This scan gives your doctor the ability to see cross-sectional images of your lungs. or an pulmonary angiography: This test involves making a small incision so your doctor can guide specialized tools through your veins. Your doctor will inject a special dye so that the blood vessels of the lung can be seen. These are 2 critical tests to do. There are several others too.
mgmaggiemg
(869 posts)happens everyday....
chervilant
(8,267 posts)as surely as if they shot her in cold blood.
My heart goes out to her family and friends.
rladdi
(581 posts)BILLIONS. Must be the hospital staff was most incompetent not to find the blood clot. That should have been easy to find.
mgmaggiemg
(869 posts)the saddest part of this; her case not unique tons of people turned away because they appear upright awake essentially but body is about to give out....there's a huge myth that hospitals and the insurance industry like to perpetuate ...that these incidences are not frequent...but they are....
Duval
(4,280 posts)I wonder what "in due time" means. Sorry to be so skeptical, but in light of this year's foibles, I can never be sure until it happens.
Overseas
(12,121 posts)hedgehog
(36,286 posts)topic of the quality of medical care given African-Americans.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)that tends to be under-treated compared to white men. So she had two strikes against her.
Studies have shown that women with heart attacks are less likely to get proper treatment than men.
KentuckyWoman
(6,690 posts)My husband, a white man with good insurance, was nearly left to die because of wrong assumptions and basic incompetence at the ER of a very well regarded hospital. On the flip side the staff at one of those "wouldn't take my dead dog there" hospitals kicked in and saved his life.
The thing with the "bad" hospital was that they do so much indigent care and see so many awful things that they long ago created a culture of doing the right thing for anyone who presents to the ER rather than making assumptions based on social stereotypes.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)pnwmom
(108,990 posts)This is a new story with more information.
malaise
(269,144 posts)Sue them
FrodosPet
(5,169 posts)I've picked up too many people at the hospital who should NOT have been leaving. A few I took back and had to tell the ER security that there was no way this person can even get out of my cab under their own power. And I am neither trained nor insured as medical transport, so I cannot physically assist them.
The case that pissed me off most was the shaking guy, smelling like urine, sent "home". Which consisted of some sheet plastic and cardboard in the woods behind a warehouse. In 30 degree temperatures.
I cannot kidnap someone. He wanted out, so I had to let him out. Then I went straight home, yelling and cussing like the sailor I was (am), and called adult protective services.
They asked if I called the police. I told them "No, I want this poor man to get some help, not arrested".
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)I think she had two strikes against her: being female and being black. But, yes, white men can be misdiagnosed and under-treated as well.
It is AWFUL that you have been put in this kind of position. Wold it be possible for you to call 911, rather than the police?
FrodosPet
(5,169 posts)One of the things that really struck me was that this guy, living rough, in need of the money even more than me, refused my offer of a free ride. He had pride. He received something, he was going to pay.
Yet rich assholes pull up to their McMansions, stiff the tip and argue about the fare.
valerief
(53,235 posts)criminal negligence.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)The medical staff killed this poor woman.
Number23
(24,544 posts)Why couldn't they have just let her sit in the waiting room? Why did the cops need to be called for this?
Where was that hospital's duty of care??
MerryBlooms
(11,770 posts)is cursed with daily soul shuddering guilt and weeping, along with an eternity of sleepless nights.
There's a huge lawsuit here.
Gawd, so fucking despicable.
Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)the doctors should be struck off for discharging her. My guess if she was white she would not have been discharged?
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)having heart attacks are less likely to be diagnosed; it's probably true with pulmonary embolisms, too.
craigmatic
(4,510 posts)Person 2713
(3,263 posts)And the hospital calls the police when she insists she isn't well
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)And it makes me furious, too.
She needed drugs to deal with the clot and instead she got handcuffs.