There are not 200 armed men holding that building. There are no more than 15

[cali]

according to multiple accounts from reporters at the scene. Using force to evict them is idiotic. Simply cut power, communications and water. They'll be out of there in a few short days. Then prosecute them to the full extent of the law.

Escalating the situation would serve no positive resolution; only endanger the lives of law enforcement and potentially create martyrs and help these fuckwads.

At this point, these assholes are endangering no one. They don't have hostages.

Personally, I think they're hoping for a confrontation initiated by law enforcement. They obviously are seeking the spotlight. Deny them both.

I've been unpleasantly surprised by the calls here for escalation and violent confrontation to a situation that poses no threat and is obviously counterproductive.

And no, saying this doesn't make me a right wing terrorist sympathizer. It simply reflects my belief that violence is rarely the answer.


http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2016/01/militia_continue_occupation_of.html

[GGJohn]

1. Spot on cali, spot on.

I am appalled at the call for violent measures by some on this board.

[Hoyt]

33. Gunners protecting gunners. These are the same racist gun yahoos who drew down

on federal agents. Give them two hours, two weeks, or whatever to walk out unarmed, then arrest them. If they draw their weapons, what is it you guys would do with your gunz?

[GGJohn]

37. And if they refuse to walk out after 2 hours Hoyt?

Would you escalate the situation by assaulting the building, initiating a possible shootout with the resulting deaths and injuries?

So far, they've done nothing more that commit the crimes of B&E and Trespassing, does that deserve the death penalty?

[Hoyt]

58. Well GG, what was it you said you did when you got a mission? Surely, there are some more folks

like that who can take these racist gun lovers out. We need to quit killing Asians and Muslims who have done nothing to us, and concentrate on home grown terrorists.

We let the yahoos walk last time, and here they are again.

I'm fine with waiting the racist terrorists out, arresting them when they've had enough and sending them to Gitmo as terrorists. If they choose to shoot -- like a Randy Weaver or Branch Davidians -- well, actions have consequences.

[GGJohn]

61. Well Hoyt, I was in, you know, an actual war, something you probably know nothing about.

Glad to see you're willing to wait them out rather than go in with guns blazing, like some here are advocating.

[Hoyt]

69. You chose to be, and were gung ho about it. But, I agree that was a long time ago.

Waiting them out, is more than these armed racist terrorists deserve. But, I'm fine with it as long as they are treated like terrorists when they walk/crawl their worthless asses out.

[GGJohn]

71. Then we are in agreement. eom.

[roguevalley]

203. this area in summer is atrociously hot. cut off water and it would take longer now but they would ca

How u would do that with a well ...

[GGJohn]

204. Cut the electricity and the well stops pumping. eom.

[Eleanors38]

136. "Give them two hours..." I go along with Cali, instead.

There is plenty of time for arrests later on, and upon conviction, stiff sentences. We don't need unnecessary and martyring bloodshed.

[Hoyt]

141. Do terrorists get/deserve trials? I basically agree with you, but do find it interesting how the

gunners here are so concerned about these armed racist militia terrorists. But, then, they support Zman and a lot of similar stuff.

[NutmegYankee]

152. You try to make this into a gun/no gun DU argument and you fail spectacularly.

Just labeling someone as a terrorist doesn't remove their rights as a US Citizen to a trial. You try to make it seem as though we just defend them because they have guns, but actually this is a defense of Civil Rights period.

6th Amendment:

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

[GGJohn]

182. What a bald faced lie.

Who here is supporting this idiots?

[Eleanors38]

161. Yes.

[roomtomove]

245. A non violent (somewhat) eviction method would be to

send in an LRAD....then they can be deaf as well as dumb.

[RandySF]

183. Why am I not surprised

To see DU's resident gun nuts advocating "restraint" in this particular case?

[GGJohn]

184. Bullshit!!

I would advocate restraint no matter who was doing this.
Take your shit elsewhere, it's not needed nor welcomed.

[pangaia]

193. Good on you.

What is the problem with some of these people?

I mean where in the world did they come from?

[GGJohn]

196. With some here, it'a always about race,

myself, I could care less what color these loons are, this situation needs to be handled with restraint and level headedness so no violence happens.

[heaven05]

213. yeah sure

[GGJohn]

214. Whatever dude.

I could care fucking less if you believe me or not.

[heaven05]

212. yeah, sure

you should take your own advice. I think it's quite welcomed and about time these type of clown patriots were put in their place.

[GGJohn]

215. So you're for more violence and killing?

Thanks for clarifying that.

[heaven05]

239. you're welcome

from Trayvon Martin up until today, violence and killing of unarmed men and women is the order of the day. The usual people here are always EXCEEDINGLY quiet about that violence, but when 'patriots' are threatened, red alerts about violence go up everywhere. Yeah sure, I get it. They should have been made to understand, at the ranch incident, that you can't have snipers ready to kill federal agents and that the POTUS is the POTUS no matter what color he is. With these clowns it is ALWAYS about race, white male domination and control. So let the chips fall where they may....

[Beartracks]

227. "Their place" should be obscurity. n/t

=================

[snooper2]

249. Don't need to do anything violent, just lock them in there and ensure they don't leave

eventually they will start offing each other

[GGJohn]

251. Yup, sooner or later, there will be dissent among the "troops". eom.

[BlueJazz]

2. My first thought was "Fuck the bastards" but saner thoughts came next. You're right. We don't..

...need to make any of these nuts a Martyr. Let them get cold and hungry for a few days.

[passiveporcupine]

117. They are not holed up in a single building

Last edited Sun Jan 3, 2016, 04:39 PM - Edit history (1)

This is a large compound with multiple buildings on it (I posted a picture lower in the thread). It can probably hold quite a few people for some time (what they were hoping for...that more militia would join them). They came with supplies, intending to stay for a long haul (they say years). They probably have generators for power and their own food and water to last them awhile. In small numbers (like 15) they may be able to hold on for weeks or even a month or two. What happens to the people who work there? Where do they go for that time?

I'm not advocating charging in guns blazing, but this is something that needs to be addressed if it's going to last very long. Most of us have said cut off power and water (if they have generators, they have power and can keep a well pump going) and block all roads (out there with the right vehicles, they may not need a road to get in and out. It will be interesting to see how this is handled.

I want to see them all arrested as terrorists. I don't want to see a blood bath.

but this is not as simple as a few people in a single building who can only hold out a couple of days.

I'm not advocating anything here, but they are escalating a situation that started in Nevada and they aren't going to stop until they are arrested or people are dead.

[BlueJazz]

148. Ah...I see. I though there was a rather quick solution to this scenario. Now I know the facts,..

...I've changed my mind about the whole thing. I vote for direct action for 2 reasons.
1. This is blatant disrespect for the people and the laws of the United States. Plus, these people are not protesting something that's wrong with the system. They're pissed because they're pissed. The father broke the law and got caught and WE don't like it. Tough Shit assholes.
And

2. You know we Democrats/progressives put up with vote fraud, corrupt EVERYTHING, anti-women bullshit, a war machine that's dragging us into a debtor's prison, (Put 50 another things here) and we protest some but try to go about it in a non-violent way.

These people start this bullshit because "My Da-da got put in jail..You Government bastards are destroying his right to take and burn land that's not his and we'll fuck up the whole system and maybe even kill some of the populace."

In short, I want to say WHAT!! You get pissed about THAT?
I'm with you except more aggressive now. Bring in the troops and get these stupid-hicks out now!

[GGJohn]

150. Bring the troops?

And what? Storm the building and start a shootout, making them martyrs for the next bunch of loons?

[BlueJazz]

164. Yes. Exactly. Exactly what would happen if it were the Black Tigers (or whatever) and they had the

...same "I'll show you" attitude going down.

I'd even tell them that. "We're going to make martyrs out of you people today and if the rest of you redneck mother fuckers want to be martyrs, come on down and git your crown...cause I and probably 100 million adult Americans are just about fed up with your ignorance and your pig-fucking friends"

[GGJohn]

168. So murder is your thing?

Because that's what it would be, murder of American citizens.

[BlueJazz]

174. I disagree. Most people don't put themselves in a situation such as that.

Last edited Mon Jan 4, 2016, 06:05 PM - Edit history (1)

Unless they are shown that their actions are illegal, the next stunt they pull will involve innocent bystanders.
They're always so afraid the government will take their guns? Did they REALLY think they would stand a chance against an army?
Sorry,,,not the brightest citizens.

[pangaia]

195. I am glad that someone in your present emotional state is not be making the decisions.

[BlueJazz]

198. Seems like we've tried everything else with the people that continue to vote us into the dirt.

Perhaps it's time to treat them the same way as they've treated the other side of life.
Sort of "Do undo others as they have done to you"

[Jim Beard]

171. Learning from past experiences, the longer the standoff occurs,

the higher the chance of public support. Break it up, swift and strong.

Don't even give the media a chance to make it a story.

The people who were the real reason for this story are going back to prison.

[GGJohn]

172. The higher the chance of public support?

Doubtful, and if the govt goes in heavy handed, then there will be a jump in public support for these loons.
The proper course is to just isolate them and wait them out, they'll tire of it soon and give up.

[Cheviteau]

207. Well here's something to consider.

These fools are not blocking doorways and sticking flowers in army rifle barrels. These men are armed to the teeth daring all comers. They have taken over a government facility by armed force. And we're supposed to wait them out? I'm not in favor of rushing in a killing them without notice. I am in favor of setting a deadline and letting them know what that deadline is. And letting them know what the consequences will be if they don't "surrender". Otherwise, we encourage this sort of thing from other so called militia groups. Enough of this crap is enough.

[GGJohn]

208. I'm not in favor of violence unless it's a very last resort.

There is no need for violence in this case, just isolate them and wait them out, without electricity, water, food, comms, internet, they'll soon tire and come out, then the Feds can prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law.

[rpannier]

229. Actually it tends to go the other way

The public likes what they perceive as strong reactions from leaders
I am for sending in force to deal with this
They've brought provisions and supplies for a long time
You can use all the hyperbole of murder and such you want.
I would say doing zip at the Bundy compound lead those yahoos to threaten those BLM employees on the road and then this
They feel empowered
Show them power

[Stonepounder]

222. What do you suppose the reaction would have been if

instead of a bunch of militant white guys calling themselves a 'militia', the occupiers had been from something like BLM? How quickly do you think the big guns would have come out? And do you think that they (BLM) would have become 'martyrs?

How come when right-wing white guys do it, it's "Oh, God! Reason with them don't make martyrs out of the!!" But if black folk do it, we shoot first and ask questions later; not worrying about 'making martyrs' out of them??

I am so sick and tired of this BS I could just scream!!

[snooper2]

250. it's pretty fucking cold there, just use fire trucks and hoses LOL

[Herman4747]

254. Possibly the Use of Teargas???

What do others think?

[BlueJazz]

263. Sure, that sounds reasonable.

[GummyBearz]

3. Agreed and well said

[HereSince1628]

4. Bundy thinks he's Robin Hood, so does his merry band of men.

Do you suppose that they have enough clean tights to get through the next week?

[KentuckyWoman]

7. you can turn um inside out and wear them another week.

If they stay out of the jalapeno dip they could probably last a month.

[ljm2002]

90. Now that was funny!

Thanks for a little mood lightener this morning, KentuckyWoman!

[cherokeeprogressive]

113. "Okay men... form up! It's time to change underwear!"

"Johnson; you change with Richards! Smith; you change with Jones! Robertson; you change with Lee! Dodd; you change with..."

I can see them lasting for months that way.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

5. I believe they are trying to provoke an armed confrontation

which would be the worst possible result. Some people are calling for an armed attack on the building because that's what would be done if it were occupied by, say, BLM - justifying a violent response by law enforcement by citing previous but wrong violent responses. These goons deserve to be arrested and prosecuted, but the most sensible way of arresting them is by cutting off the building's utilities and communications, surrounding the place, and waiting until they get cold and hungry enough to surrender. These aren't tough Special Forces guys; they're sad little soldier wannabes who'll cave when they run out of beer and pizza. The dumbest possible thing to do would be to storm the place with a SWAT team and make martyrs out of these bozos.

[passiveporcupine]

119. I know it sounds like it

ome people are calling for an armed attack on the building because that's what would be done if it were occupied by, say, BLM

But I think a lot of people are just pissed that the response to a colored person would be way different than the response to these white assholes. Yeah, they may sound like they want the Feds to go blazing in, but I don't really think anyone wants that. They just don't like the unfairness of how this is being handled compared to POC.

[oldandhappy]

6. Thank you. You are sane.

[demmiblue]

8. I am amazed at the bloodlust I have seen on this board.

One in particular is trying to walk it back in a most odious way. To be expected, though.

I agree with everything you have written.

[Bucky]

242. They're insulting the rule of law and the civility of our society. Anger isn't surprising.

Agreed, none of them deserve to be shot at... and no law enforcement lives should be risked.

But as an expedient, I kind of wonder if one of those big LRAD machines might be judiciously deployed.

[Aristus]

9. I agree with the call for non-violence.

Put them under seige, and watch them descend into in-fighting; likely over who should be in charge based on who is the most 'patriotic'.

When they run out of Skoal, and start missing binge-watching Duck Dynasty, they come crawling out of there...

[jberryhill]

10. "cut power, communications and water"

This place is 50 miles from nowhere. You think it's connected to municipal water or something?

I doubt they headed out to a wildlife refuge with the idea they were going to need any of the facilities.

[cali]

11. I think wells have electric pumps.

[jberryhill]

15. Have you done much winter camping?

I doubt they need a pump driven well for water.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

18. If there's snow they can use that. But they'll need food eventually

and it will get pretty cold if the electricity is cut off. Maybe they can hold out for awhile but not indefinitely. I would also suggest that the less publicity these doofuses get, the better.

[jberryhill]

19. There are ample fresh water supplies

And one may assume they have a good supply of propane or other fuel, along with plenty of MRE's and freeze dried food.

I would assume the facility has its own big honking propane tank in the first place.

This is a very remote facility, and the notion that they need electrical power, running water or electricity for some unspecified purpose suggests that someone doesn't spend a lot of time outdoors.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

23. I tried winter camping once and hated it, but

I'm aware that people can get by for awhile with minimal resources if they don't mind being uncomfortable. However, their food won't last forever. At some point the MREs or whatever they brought will run out. My point is, surround them and wait. Maybe it will take awhile if they have water and a heat source but they can't stay there forever.

[jberryhill]

44. One deer can feed a lot of folks

There is food all around them. It walks in by itself.

[2naSalit]

83. Ineed. nt

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

121. Not if the cops don't let them leave the building.

[Lizzie Poppet]

56. The issue might be water that's actually in liquid form.

It's not likely to get above freezing much in Burns for a couple of months. Currently 28F and snowing, going to see single-digit lows for much of the coming week. I have no idea how that facility keeps its pipes unfrozen, but if it involves electricity, that could be a problem for the protesters.

[jberryhill]

79. I would expect a remote HQ to have a propane tank

It is just a small stone cabin. It's not the Yellowstone Visitor Center.

[passiveporcupine]

127. It's not just a small stone cabin

Look it up on google maps. It's a compound with multiple buildings on it. I assumed they'd have a generator, but I think propane is far more likely. I don't think they will have any trouble holding out there for some time.

[davsand]

173. Propane tanks have to be hooked up to something.

I'm pretty sure that propane tank can be made non-functional without much trouble. I'm also pretty sure that firewood is not gonna replenish itself. I doubt that terrain supports artesian wells--those are a lot more rare than you might think. A traditional well can be shut down at the well pit--again something on the exterior of the building... If they want to shut that place down, I'm betting it can be turned into a siege situation fairly easily.

I'm sadistic enough that I'd park a freaking mobile pizza oven outside the perimeter and give away slices to all the cops--or bake a turkey--or bake pies...



Laura

[Travis_0004]

181. You can't run a generator indoors

Most generators will last much less than a day before you have to go outside and refill them with gas/propane. Running it inside would be dangerous and stupid. If it was outside, I doubt anybody would go outside to refill it with federal agents around. And if it was running, it would be easy to put a large bullet through it and shut it down.

[hack89]

38. Odds are these guys are also preppers

I suspect they have everything they need to survive for an extended period.

[cali]

30. I've been winter camping in northern Vermont.

What's your solution? It sounds like you're avidly looking for a violent confrontation

[jberryhill]

46. How does it sound that way

At what point have I suggested the use of violence in any manner?

You want to escalate the situation by increasing stress on nutty people, thus increasing the likelihood they will do something stupid.

[rjsquirrel]

70. You are forgetting something important

In order for them to use snow for water, hunt for food, or access (safely stored) fuel, they need to leave a building surrounded by armed agents. How's that going to work then? How are they going to get out far enough to bag deer, put down arms long enough to field dress them, get them back (with no ATVs) to the building, etc?

No way 20 guys brought in enough food and fuel to last more than a couple of weeks. And if they are storing any significant quantity of fuel inside that building then we could well have Waco II here if a shot is fired at all.

They're not afoot in the wilderness as I understand it. They are holed up in what amounts to a large cabin approachable by road and with cleared areas (and parking lots) around it. They can't be allowed to leave the cabin and return.

My preferred solution involves a firehose down the chimney or through a window, get everything inside nice and wet, and turn off the power and light. 6 or 8 hours later you'll have control of a bunch of freezing souls at 10 degrees outside. They'll either come out on their own or be half out of it when you storm the place. No one needs to die, but a few fingers and toes might pay the price.

[Warren DeMontague]

186. Are they gonna be able to pump donuts and cheese doodles out of those wells?

Surround them, cut them off, no one in, anyone who comes out is arrested.

Eventually their supplies will run out.

[Nye Bevan]

12. It almost seems as though some want a repeat of Waco,

to make a point about "white privilege" or something.

Waiting for them to get hungry, cold, or bored and then having them give themselves up certainly seems a better solution than storming in with guns blazing.

[LiberalArkie]

13. Yep. Barricade the roads so they can't run a get any food. Put in a cellphone jammer and

RF jammer for satellite TV and over the air tv. Cut them off and wait. No media allowed within 10 miles. Have a small federal presence so that it appears no one cares about them at all.

[jberryhill]

21. "so they can't run a get any food"

And give the deer flak jackets too!

[LiberalArkie]

22. Never can tell. People will pack some food for a certain stay and go through it pretty quick.

They will run out of water first. The question is does the federal building have a well and does the group have a generator. Since they don't have any hostages, the FBI can just wait them out.

[jberryhill]

47. How will they run out of water?

They are not in a desert.

[XemaSab]

72. They're not?

Harney County is in the Great Basin.

[jberryhill]

77. Is that like White Sands?

Because someone must have dumped a shitload of white sand out there:



Is that a salt flat?

[XemaSab]

84. That's going to be really dry snow

I'd be surprised if they got half an inch of water out of that.

[jberryhill]

94. I would expect there is a sizeable water supply

I don't think anyone ran 50 miles of pipe to get water from the town of Burns.

Given the various facilities there, I also doubt water is supplied on demand to taps by electrically operated pumps.

[Maedhros]

165. Regardless of what you may think, Eastern Oregon is a desert.

I grew up there.

[jberryhill]

170. There is apparently a large pond on the property

[Maedhros]

175. There are, indeed, ponds in the desert.

Sometimes even lakes.

[starroute]

62. There do seem to be facilities they can draw upon

They're clearly not sleeping on the floor of the gift shop. There's a three-bedroom volunteer bunkhouse with full kitchen, bathrooms, laundry and shower facilities, satellite TV and wi-fi. Notice also the references to fuel tanks. It does seem as though they're pretty well set up for a siege, providing they've brought enough food.


http://www.fws.gov/refuge/Malheur/what_we_do/get_involved.html

A limited number of rooms are available in our Volunteer Bunkhouse for non-RV volunteers. The bunkhouse is fully accessible and has a full kitchen, two bathrooms, satellite television and Wi-Fi access.


http://www.fws.gov/uploadedFiles/Region_1/NWRS/Zone_2/Malheur/Documents/MalheurNWR_FCCP_chapter5.pdf

Administrative facilities located at Refuge Headquarters on the south side of Malheur Lake, 32 miles south of Burns, consist of offices, a small visitor center and gift shop, the George Benson Memorial Museum, a conference room/library, a maintenance shop, and storage areas for maintenance and fire equipment. Five of the buildings at Refuge Headquarters and two buildings at the Buena Vista substation were built by the CCC.

Other buildings located at Refuge Headquarters include public restrooms, hazardous materials storage space, fuel tanks space, and residential housing. Residential housing includes a two-bedroom house for seasonal staff, a fire bunkhouse, a three-bedroom volunteer bunkhouse, a volunteer/RV Park common room, and a laundry and shower/restroom facility.

Government-owned living quarters for Refuge staff are located at the three substations (Buena Vista, P Ranch, and Double-O units). In addition to residences, a maintenance shop, storage areas for equipment, and fuel tanks can be found at the main substation areas. Government-owned housing for the P Ranch substation is located at the South Place maintenance area. A three-bedroom volunteer bunkhouse, equipment storage areas, and fuel tanks are located at the P Ranch proper.

[Gore1FL]

105. I would assume the entrances are covered by law enforcement.

Gathering food, snow, wood, etc wouldn't go without a pretty high risk of capture. Even if they manage food, clean water, and fuel it'll be a pretty bleak self-inflicted experience.

They'll need outside resources long before the everyone else needs that building.

[dflprincess]

202. Good, the authorities can add poaching to the charges. nt

[dhill926]

14. totally agree...especially this part...

"Personally, I think they're hoping for a confrontation initiated by law enforcement. They obviously are seeking the spotlight. Deny them both."

[Mika]

16. Has this thread been alerted yet?

I'd be surprised if it hasn't been, in these times.

[NutmegYankee]

17. I wonder if the people who are calling for murdering the idiots in the building understand terrorism

At the moment it's just a pathetic bunch of racist trash brandishing firearms to pretend that they have power. Eventually they will leave and be arrested. If we instead kill them, all that will do is radicalize their family and other like minded individuals and then we WILL have terrorism - the kind where someone parks a truck bomb outside of a building.

We learned this the hard way in Iraq.

[cali]

32. +1

[RKP5637]

85. Agree!!! K&R!!! n/t

[Eleanors38]

140. ^^^.

[Lancero]

218. Not suprisingly, that happened in the past.

The Oklahoma City bombing was done by people angry over the deaths at Ruby Ridge and Waco.

[Lorien]

231. Law enforcement now has drones with tazers

I'm sure they wouldn't hesitate to use worse on them if they were black, or Occupy protesters. Doing nothing only makes their ilk bolder.

[Lorien]

232. Um, we attacked Iraq first

Vanilla ISIS is demanding that they get to vandalize public property and be given public resources for free. They've never been attacked. They won't be martyrs for not being allowed to blackmail the U.S. into giving them free stuff.

[jeff47]

258. Read up on Waco and Ruby Ridge.

In both cases, the people under siege were not exactly law-abiding.

And in both cases, those same people became martyrs for the militia movement. Heck, the Oklahoma City bombing happened because of those incidents.

They don't actually have to be selfless and noble to be turned into martyrs. The spin doctors can easily take care of that after-the-fact.

[JEB]

20. Let them continue to advertise their ignorance

and watch them shrivel up and limp away. If they wait until the Spring Migration starts they will have to deal with an army of birdwatchers. Little old ladies with binoculars will set these bums straight.

[MindPilot]

24. agreed...the calls to violence here are appalling.

All they have to do is put up a cross and the government will give them the land.

[avebury]

102. The better way to treat these idiots is with total humiliation.

Totally cut off all their connections with the outside world, cut off all utilities, blast them with loud music 24 hours a day, and so on.

The Feds could just rename the facility as a prison facility and let them just rot there. It was awfully nice of them to voluntarily go into lockup.

[leftyladyfrommo]

125. Just tow their autos

Cut off their communications and make them walk home. It's 25 miles to the nearest town.

[renate]

132. LOL--I kind of love your idea to rename it as a prison and let them sit there ad infinitum

Their pride would drive them out.

[Herman4747]

255. Yeah, it is both a funny & effective idea...

I myself am most fond of this idea. Unfortunately, it may not be constitutional as it entails incarceration before a trial.

[renate]

262. wow, that's a very good point (I'm impressed!). but I wonder...

If they're free to leave at any time, is it really incarceration? Do you think that would keep it from being unconstitutional?

[The Wielding Truth]

180. Best idea ever. Just post some guards and they can start serving their time in captivity.

Hahaha. They are caught red handed.

[Lorien]

233. And doing nothing will encorage them to do much worse

the white male privilege is what's appalling!

[dogman]

25. They let them go after the Bundy Ranch episode.

Two members went on to assassinate police officers. If only one member were a Muslim it would have been over already. Jail them now.

[LittleBlue]

26. Was thinking the same thing. These incidents are like dog whistles on DU

BUST THROUGH AND KILL THEM! Yeah, DU, sure. Make them Ruby Ridge type martyrs.

As long as they're not hurting people, starve them out. Should only take a few days.

[PufPuf23]

27. You are level headed. Escalation is what evil people want

and calls for violent confrontation at DU are repulsive and give one doubt about this place.

Back off, starve and bore them out, put them in jail, and make sure they are never near a weapon again.

The right wing noise machine breeds and encourages these assholes.

[uponit7771]

28. Or... treat them the same why non white Americans get treated?

[cali]

34. Why? Do you think that's good? Oh, and Ruby Ridge ring a bell?

[NutmegYankee]

48. Which is the correct way to treat people?

Should we go barbarian on everybody, or solve the institutional racism that drives the mistreatment of minorities?

[world wide wally]

29. Trump would kill their relatives,

Cruz would carpet bomb them, and Huckabee would shower with them.

[hobbit709]

31. Freeze them out. Arrest them when they come out. Throw the book at them.

[Lizzie Poppet]

52. That will be the plan.

There has been no actual violence so far, no destruction. It's become SOP for law enforcement to isolate the suspects and wait them out in such situations.

[Herman4747]

256. Interesting that you mention FREEZE them out

when they do get apprehended, I favor imprisoning them in Alaska. (To be sure, there may not be a federal penitentiary there -- I don't know).

[hobbit709]

257. Shemya Island is currently not being used for much of anything.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shemya

[Gormy Cuss]

35. I'll bet every one of those idiots blames Tamir Rice for his death

yet they'd be martyrs for white supremacy if they die in a shootout with LEOs.

I'm fine letting the Feds use negotiation to try to end this situation but the press shouldn't mince words: these are bad guys with guns who have illegally occupied Federal property.

[Recursion]

36. Yep

Amazing how fast people fall for these assholes' on fantasy rhetoric...

[davekriss]

39. Good post, I agree

[tabasco]

40. So, about twice the number that shot up Paris.

No big deal then.

[Tab]

41. From CNN - Plan is to wait them out

CNN law enforcement analyst Art Roderick, a retired U.S. marshal who investigated anti-government militias for years, warned that Bundy's call for supporters to join him might "turn into a bad situation."

"What's going to happen hopefully (is) ... we don't go out there with a big force, because that's what they're looking for," he said. "The last thing we need is some type of confrontation."

He said that over the years, law enforcement has learned how to handle a situation like this; one that hasn't erupted in violence and in which a law may be broken, but there's no immediate threat to anyone's life.

The best approach now, Roderick said, is to wait the group out and to figure out how to bring a peaceful end to the standoff.

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. Except that none charged some of these same idiots

For taking sniper positions in Nevada and drawing on Frderal agents. Oh that is 10 to 20. That alone emboldened them. Waiting them out is standard police practice. Thought would argue this is not a job for local law enforcement, but the FBI special Weapons and Tactics.

But some here are very correct. These are survivalists. So the wait will be long. And if they were insert minority here, we already would be in a fire fight.

Charges, this time, need to be filed. Otherwise this will continue to happen over and over and over again

And yes this is white supremacy on display. Not even white privileges. White supremacy.

[retrowire]

50. I am white. And I was just saying to my wife...

"What is it with white people thinking that all land belongs to them?"

[nadinbrzezinski]

53. Colonialism

Is part of it.

Some of the reading I have been doing into law enforcement tells me we need (as a country) a change collectively in how we think

End if empire, and it will come, will be very painful...and I bet will make these problems far worst too

[GeorgeGist]

199. Eric the Folder has moved on.

[nadinbrzezinski]

220. This did not even go all the way to the AG

the decision to charge or not, belongs with the US Attorney.

A lot of this crap starts at far lesser levels.

[ileus]

43. They'll have to go back to work when their PTO runs out.

[retrowire]

45. I see a double edged sword here...

If we cut the power, and drive them out peacefully, then that is obviously the high road and it's the best way that law can work.

But on the other hand...

I reinforces the ideal that, since they're white, they get carefully carted back to the courthouse, every body is given a slap on the hand and all is okay.

But if they were any other type of group, it wouldn't end peacefully so...

I dunno. But we should just drive them out peacefully either way.

[Lizzie Poppet]

49. "I've been unpleasantly surprised by the calls here for escalation and violent confrontation"

Those fools are from the wrong "tribe." Thus it's okay, in the eyes of many here, to kill them.

[gwheezie]

51. I wonder how ignoring them would work?

They aren't going to feel they accomplished anything until they have fed agents fire on them or back down. So if they continue to occupy the building they win by either 2 things happening. Either it escalates and they go out in a blaze of glory or there is a protracted stand off and eventually the feds back down.
What if LE just goes home? Maybe even turn it into a tourist attraction? Make like a re enactment and charge a parking fee.
I'm being sarcastic on the last part.

[davsand]

54. My first response was shut off the electric and water.

I agree, Cali! No water, no electric, and no additional food brought in. Cut all access to outside by locking down the cell coverage. If they really want to play hardball, that well can be disabled (if you have ever lived with a well instead of city water, you know just how easy that is to do!) and that will speed the process up a lot. Then you just sit and wait. The siege is an age old military tactic, and we know it will work. One way or another, it will end. That isolation increases in its power if the media just stops publicizing it and the loudmouths inside that building are prevented from giving any further grandiose statements of patriotic fantasy.

The last thing in the world that anybody should be talking about is any sort of armed confrontation with these idiots because they see themselves as martyrs. Screw that. Don't feed the beast. We all know that, yes, there is more than enough firepower in the local police station or in the state police arsenal (most probably) to leave nothing more than a stain on that ground, but that is giving them what they seek. Makes no sense to encourage that.

If the good ole' boys want to sit in silence inside that building till summer, then let 'em. Think of it as a form of "timeout."

[Bettie]

55. Violence may not be the answer

but neither is patting them on the heads and telling them they're not doing anything wrong, which is the solution many seem to advise.

Were they not a bunch of white guys, they'd be dead already. Pointing that out is not advocating violence.

[GGJohn]

59. Who here is saying that they should be patted on the head and told they're

not doing anything wrong?
Kindly provide a link.

[Bettie]

63. There's all this hand wringing about

people who suggest that it might end violently. See any one of the threads about this...much talk about how they are not endangering anyone and should just be left alone.

And no acknowledgement that had these people been anything other than white males, they'd already be dead. That's the thing, there is a double standard and far too many seem unable to accept that and are just worried about the poor little gunners and how they might get hurt.

[GGJohn]

66. No, nobody is saying they should just be left alone,

what's being said is the the Feds should just surround the building, cut off all utilities, jam their comms and internet, and wait them out rather than assault the building with the resulting shootout and deaths.

So far, all these assholes have done is commit the crimes of B&E and Trespassing, why escalate the situation into bloodshed?

[gwheezie]

73. I suggested a tourist attraction

It can be like a re enactment of the whiskey rebellion.

[GGJohn]

76. I like it, and the Feds can charge a fee for the entertainment of watching these RW assholes

self destruct.

[passiveporcupine]

142. Send in the drones

Put their lives on live TV!

Oops...just thought of a way for them to get food...by drone delivery. Does Amazon do that now?

[GGJohn]

143. I'm not sure if they're delivering by drone yet. eom.

[passiveporcupine]

145. that was a joke John eom

[GGJohn]

149. Sorry, my age is creeping, actually, roaring up on me,

I don't recognize humor as much as I used to in my younger days. LOL.

[Bettie]

75. I've not said that there should be bloodshed

I have said that it is sick that no one will acknowledge that there is a HUGE double standard.

And yes, you've just said that they have "only" done B&E and Trespassing...that means, a little slap on the wrist and then they get to go home.

Did anyone get any sort of consequences for the Bundy ranch thing? Nope.

And yet, every day persons of color die at the hands of police or others for the crime of existing while being not-white.

I have no doubt that these guys will come out eventually, all their demands having been met, and will move on to whatever their next target will be and have the same outcome with that act of domestic terrorism. Oh, wait, next act of "2nd Amendment Usage".

[GGJohn]

78. Ummm, wrong,

B&E is a felony, and a federal one at that due to the building they broke into, they'll more than likely be headed off to a Fed. prison, where there is no parole, in the Fed. system, you do the whole sentence, unlike the state systems.

[Bettie]

80. If they are charged, they might go to prison

but I'm not holding my breath. People like these tend not to be prosecuted.

[GGJohn]

82. Of course they're going to be charged,

the govt is going to prosecute these idiots to the fullest extent of Fed. law.

[Bettie]

86. You are a funny guy

Really.

They won't be charged. Just like the Bundy ranch guys, they'll all go on their merry way when they choose to leave.

I'd like to be wrong, but we'll see what happens. Not holding my breath though. There will be no prosecutions, no arrests.

[GGJohn]

88. Ok, then when they're arrested, and they will be, charged and convicted,

will you come back and acknowledge that I was correct?

[Bettie]

96. Sure, if I'm wrong, I'll be

happy to be wrong.

Now, when they are let go without any charges will you acknowledge that there is a HUGE double standard?

[GGJohn]

106. Absolutely.

I'll admit that I was wrong.

[KingCharlemagne]

163. What we need are a few generals like U.S. Grant who know

how to conduct a good, old-fashioned siege (a la Vicksburg or Petersburg

[GGJohn]

167. Yep, just isolate them, no food, no water in, no supporters, no comms, no internet,

they'd soon see the errors of their way and give it up.
They think they have the support of the people, they couldn't be more mistaken, not even the people in the town want them there.

[NutmegYankee]

100. Should we murder people in this situation, or should we not?

I realize that we have racist police who murder minorities. I also think that such an action is wrong and we should take appropriate steps to stop such acts.

I don't see how 2 wrongs make a right.

[Bettie]

104. I have said over and over

that violence is not the answer.

But, these clowns will likely not even be charged. They'll go on their merry way to their next target, knowing that for them, there are no consequences, while people who don't look like them get killed regularly for simply existing.

Who knows, this might be the time that they kill some federal agents and everyone will wring their hands and explain how if they had just let the whole thing go, the poor victims inside that building wouldn't have been "forced" to kill.

The point is simply that there is a double standard. Were these people not-white, they would already be dead.

[NutmegYankee]

109. I think they will be charged this time.

This is an easy case to prosecute. I don't agree that non-white people in the same situation would be dead already. Police shootings usually occur in the heat of the moment. Any assault on this building will take time given the remoteness and climate. I doubt police could have gotten the forces in place already.

[Bettie]

120. We'll see

you don't believe in the double standard. That's fine.

I don't believe at all that there will be any consequences at all for these people, except maybe a slap on the wrist, like a small fine that they will never pay.

[NutmegYankee]

124. Why do you say that?

I believe there is a double standard by police officers involved in stops and such. I also think law enforcement would approach a situation with armed minorities in a remote place in a similar manner as is being done here.

Police only like to kill or injure unarmed people - otherwise they might get hurt.

[pnwmom]

226. The wrong solution would be to shoot them when no one else is at risk.

We are wrong when we allow authorities to shoot black people in situations that don't involve any risk to the police or other people. The solution isn't to do it shoot white people too -- it's to treat black people as fairly as we would want to be treated.

[Bettie]

241. Shooting them may indeed be the wrong solution

but so is letting them do as they please and then sending them on their way with a pat on the head and a light tap on the wrist for being "naughty" and that is what happens in situations like this.

Given what happened after Bundy Ranch (zero consequences), I do not believe there will be any here either. Heck, from news reports from the area they are still being allowed to come and go as they please from their newly captured party house.

[Lorien]

234. Exactly. Thi roll over and take it bullshit

is why the Left always gets trampled.

[eggplant]

57. And blaring the Barney Song at them on endless repeat. n/t

[FailureToCommunicate]

97. Hey

[eggplant]

99. It does. (shudder)

http://entertainment.time.com/2013/10/29/these-five-songs-have-all-been-used-to-torture-people/

[FailureToCommunicate]

103. Yikes! But hard to believe THIS one didn't make the list...

[LonePirate]

101. Not the Barney song. Blast rap music as that will get under their skin. Some N.W.A. for example.

[gwheezie]

107. I kinda like 'oh my goodness'

By boogie.

[Demit]

118. Muskrat Love. Over and over, 24/7.

[SMC22307]

189. Wildfire.

Groan.

[kentauros]

190. I'd mix in some industrial, too:

Plus:
Einstürzende Neubauten
SPK
Rhythm & Noise
Throbbing Gristle
"Forbidden Planet" soundtrack

Demolition Site
Traffic Noise
Shepard Madness

Oh, and
Bagpipes

[valerief]

60. Why would the oligarchy's media ignore them? They want the white, male, and heavily armed rage

on the teevees to incite the white, male, and heavily armed asshole teevee viewers into action. They want the race war played out on a bigger scale. While the little people cull their own herds, the oligarchs harvest the spoils.

[Lizzie Poppet]

68. The occupation just began. It will take time for national news crews to get there.

The reporters on the scene are mostly in-state people that went out to Burns when these out-of-state idiots began showing up. The occupation only began yesterday, and travel isn't easy right now in that part of Eastern Oregon (well below freezing, snowing). Burns only has a small municipal airport (which may not even be open, given the weather conditions), so highway travel is really the only option. It's a long way to any population center from there, so while I'm sure crews are braving the trip, they're probably mostly not there yet.

[NutmegYankee]

111. The story is on NBC, ABC, CNN, FOX, etc.

It's the lead story on CNN.com.

[valerief]

112. Yep, they're getting what they want. nt

[The Jungle 1]

64. I know I know

Drop a bomb on them it worked for Mayor Good in Philadelphia.

Oh wait these guys aren't Black or Muslim. Maybe we should just talk nicely to them and hope they go home.

What I find interesting is we have a major terrorist occupation of a United States government building yet there was not one word about in my local news paper. You can bet there would be major coverage if these dopes were Muslim or Black.

[GGJohn]

74. A major terrorist occupation of a United States government building?

15 RW assholes broke into and occupied an empty building, so far, the only crimes committed are B&E and Trespassing on Federal lands.
Just cut off the utilities and wait them out, they'll tire soon and give up.

[Gman]

65. Soon they'll look like Jack Nicholson sitting in the snow

After the next El Nino energized winter storm.

[The Jungle 1]

67. OH OH OH better Idea

Blast them with classical music and jam the goat roping stations.
Night and day.
They won't last 5 hours.

[Agnosticsherbet]

81. By their act, these men have decided that violence is their method of choice.

I would rather see them all sent to prison.

But if their act leads to their deaths, then I will not shed a tear over their choice to waste their lives for extreme conservative libertarian points of view.

A group that chooses to take up arms against the government is not to be coddled.

[ljm2002]

87. You are correct...

...cut off their supplies and communications and wait them out. They won't last long. Then prosecute their asses.

But be ready in case they do start shooting.

[RKP5637]

89. Agree! Provoking violence will accomplish nothing but more violence down the road!

Personally, I think they're hoping for a confrontation initiated by law enforcement. They obviously are seeking the spotlight. Deny them both.

[Helen Borg]

91. Yep, cut all utilities.

They'll come out of there with their tail between their legs.

[Hoyt]

92. Although, not all of these are actually occupying the building, it's more than 15 terrorists

involved.

[passiveporcupine]

155. This is not the militarized group that is in the Wildlife Refuge

This group is here to protest the Hammond's prison sentence. The group in the wildlife refuge is the Bundy group and they don't care about the Hammonds. They have taken this opportunity to fight the Federal Government...or at least get in the news about it.

[griloco]

93. Plz, people, this is how you get them out.

Pardon me if it's already been done

[avebury]

95. The Feds should just cut off all the utilities to the building,

totally surround it to prevent anybody going in or out and then wait them out. Totally isolate them from the world is the way to go. Cell phones will only last until the batteries run out. Unless they took in food and water with them they will eventually get hungry. A person can last longer without food then they can water. With no electricity it will get cold.

They cannot win if the Feds refuse to engage them. Set up a large enough perimeter that even the media can't get anywhere near the building. Bring in cell phone jamming equipment to prevent them from communicating witht the outside with their cellphones until such time as their cellphones run out of juice. They could consider blasting them with loud music like they did Noriega.

[JCMach1]

98. since they are 'sovereign' can we just send them to Guantanamo when they give up?

[Quixote1818]

108. Agree 100% nt

[JackInGreen]

110. Thank you cali

This mornings disagreements here gave painted pretty clear distinctions amd highlighted for me even more how our part of the left has been coopted by right wing hyperviolence.

[Orrex]

114. Shoot the hostage. Take him out of the equation.

[lumberjack_jeff]

115. Seize their bank accounts under RICO. It is undoubtedly and admittedly organized crime. n/t

[AllyCat]

116. And I do like another's suggestion of sending olestra

Chips. You know, as a peace offering

[NutmegYankee]

185. Nah. Haribo Sugar Free Gummy Bears.

Read the reviews:

http://www.amazon.com/Haribo-Sugar-Free-Gummy-Bears/product-reviews/B008JELLCA

[AllyCat]

192. OMG! Laughing so hard my family came to check on me to see why I was crying!

Oh dear, that is fantastic.

[NutmegYankee]

201. Yeah, I damn near fell out of my chair a few times reading those.

[ProfessorGAC]

122. Starve 'em Out

They'll last 7 days, tops. They're weeines with guns. Just wait them out until they start calling for mommie.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

123. Agree 100%

I'm curious as to what they've done in the way of terrorism - I keep seeing them referred to as terrorists.

[larkrake]

126. turn off electric, gas and water, gas them and arrest and send them to Somalia

[Lizzie Poppet]

157. The problem with that is the physical location.

I've been there quite a few times. Malheur Wildlife Refuge HQ is pretty isolated, with the nearest neighboring buildings being a couple miles away and the nearest town of any size (Burns, pop. c. 3000) 15 miles or so away. Moreover, it's in open country: the land right around the little compound it largely treeless and pretty level. Getting close enough to mess with the well (there's an actual spring about 1500 feet from the buildings) would expose the people doing it to fire. If there's gas there, it will be a propane tank in the compound, not a pipeline. Cutting off electricity should be easy...but these dipshits apparently brought generators, so their fuel would have to run out before that became an issue.

I have no problem with this taking time. That isolation that serves these guys so well also ensures that they're no threat to anyone and they're not going to be able to get away. Cut them off, wait them out...

[JoePhilly]

128. Build a fence around the place and call it prison.

[MissB]

129. They plan on bringing children in today

According to the latest article in the Oregonian.

[cali]

131. That should be easy to thwart

[MissB]

133. I'm rather hoping so.

Earlier articles noted that the authorities controlled the access road.

[avebury]

137. Child endangerment

And the charges just keep piling up.

These people are really not the brightest bulbs in the room. The Feds just need one really good spin master to turn this around and toally humilate these idiots. Just like groups like Isis and AlQeada use children for their terrorist goals, so does this group.

[Liberal_in_LA]

130. kick

[Live and Learn]

134. K&R nt

[larkrake]

135. they should be tried in military court as insurrectionists

[NutmegYankee]

138. Even an insurrection would be tried in normal court.

They are still American Citizens.

[larkrake]

144. they claim to be militias, hense, military

[NutmegYankee]

147. LOL.

Right... If they claim to be elves do we have to take them to Rivendell for trial?

[larkrake]

153. yes, if so deluded. Seizing a federal building allows for Gitmo, fed prison or Rivendale

Good humor tho. Of course, so many have been disappeared for those not under NRA protection. Point is that lawbreakers must be punished, not let off. The 2nd amendment does not allow seizing a federal building, or poaching on a game reserve. I'd love to own the Rocky mountains but I dont have the law on my side to plant my personal flag.

[NutmegYankee]

156. No one is saying they shouldn't be punished and imprisoned.

I'm just pointing out that even a charge of treason doesn't wave the civil rights of the accused.

[larkrake]

158. Perhaps you are correct, I wish the Supremes had the case

not that five follow constitutional law, but at least they would be forced to actually define the limits of militias so we can do away with the runaway definition congress follows.($$$$$$$)

[nadinbrzezinski]

160. They first need to be tried by a regular federal court

then at the appellate level, and then the USSC needs to even accept to hear this case. And that is assuming charges are even filed, as they should have, and were not, at the Bundy Ranch.

[cali]

146. Why?

[Quixote1818]

139. I think for fun they should set off loud fireworks outside the building

at night and put a big red laser beam on the premises so they think a laser guided missile is coming. Then nab those that try to take off.

[phleshdef]

151. Have Donald Trump build a wall around the whole area and just leave them there.

[YvonneCa]

166. ...

..,

[pansypoo53219]

154. oh, siege yes, but also sic the IRS on their asses. send them to somalia if they hate govt so much.

[DirkGently]

159. Just block ingress. Yawn. Wait. Arrest.

The Sovereign Citizen yahoos have screwed themselves pretty good here, so long as no one overreacts, which presumably is what they're counting on.

There's nothing there, so they have no leverage to create their dreamed-of stand-off with Government.

Doesn't matter how many freeze-dried crackers they have -- they have nothing to do, and there is no urgency to get them out or do anything at all. They have no hostages. No assets anyone needs to do anything with right at the moment.

They've basically locked themselves in an empty closet, expecting a dramatic showdown.

It sounded like the Bundy kid wanted to "claim" the place for future Militia Nut use, but so long as no one is permitted to join them, and anyone who comes out is arrested, 100% of the pressure is on them.

They're just sitting around, fingering their weapons, writing dire Facebook posts they probably can't even put up, hoping to attract attention.

That's going to get old very fast.

[JDPriestly]

162. Agreed. Just shut off their supply routes.

That's what should have happened to 'iSIS too.

[pnwmom]

169. I agree, cali. They're not a threat so we can afford to be smarter than they are. n/t

[Jim Beard]

177. I can not believe all I have been reading here

the longer the standoff runs, the more time for media support of these thugs. Already the news trucks are lined up and going to Washington to continue and spread any propaganda and make it a main news story what ever they choose but mark my words, they will be made out as heroes. Remember Waco???? News trucks were lined up for miles and stayed there for days. Power and water were cut and the situation was creating sympathy for the. They even let Koresh have TV time to discuss the bible or his bible. By the time the feds decided to do something, there was a large support the people.

They should have hit them from day one before they even got a chance to determine their suicide plan taken the children when they were visiting in town. Janet Reno caught hell anyway,

Same with the Iranian "students" taking our Embassy and holding the staff hostage, the longer it went on, the worse it was for the United States.

[Kaleva]

187. This is a different situation then Waco

At Waco, there were children. There are none at the wildlife refuge. My guess is that as happened at the Bundy Ranch, the media and people will get bored of the standoff and turn their attention to other matters.

[underpants]

178. #Y'allQaeda #Yokel Haram #YeeHawd & Vanilla ISIS

See on Facebook

[Jim Beard]

179. Oregon sheriff says the group occupying a national wildlife refuge came to town under false pretense

Ranching Standoff

''An Oregon sheriff says the group occupying a national wildlife refuge came to town under false pretenses.

Sheriff David Ward says the men came to Harney County in remote southeastern Oregon claiming to be there in support of local ranchers, but were really there to spark a movement to overthrow the government.

The sheriff says he is working with local and federal authorities to keep the citizens in his county safe and to quickly and peacefully resolve the situation that began Saturday evening after a peaceful protest in the nearby town of Burns.

He is asking people to stay away from the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge for their own safety. Ward says he does not think any other parts of the county are in immediate danger.''

[kiva]

188. In 1969 Native American activists occupied Alcatraz Island

for 19 months. The government didn't shoot at them or demand their surrender, they just waited. No deaths due to violence, one accidental death.

For posters who believe that the best thing the government should do to a bunch of people illegally occupying U.S. government land is to force them to surrender and kill them if they refuse...well, I'm just glad they weren't in charge in 1969.

[rockodman]

191. Work Monday?

What happens Monday when Federal employees return to work? Let then go in unprotected? That's when the rubber meets the road.

[DrewFlorida]

194. You're right! Hopefully they will prosecute them this time!

After the "Bundy Ranch" standoff, where many militia wack-jobs were seen aiming guns at federal agents, I expected those people to be rounded up and arrested a short time later. But that never happened, those criminals were allowed to roam free with zero repercussions. I will be very disappointed if the same thing happens this time.

[Kablooie]

197. Leave those guys locked in there together ...

For a few weeks and by the end they'll be shooting each other.

[Uncle Joe]

200. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, cali.

[chwaliszewski]

205. Here's What The Government Should Do...

Do not engage in a battle with these gun-humpers. That is exactly what they want. Cut power & water. Blast some annoying music 24/7 (like Justin Bieber or Pentatonix). Air drop a bunch of skunk oil to stink'em out. But above all else, no shooting. That's what they want.

[Hulk]

206. How about a steady barrage of tear gas?

Nobody needs to die over this, but this bull shit needs to cease.

Allow these weak minded, paranoid idiots to gather strength by rounding up all the idiots from every corner of the country is going to make for even a bigger problem.

Cut the power...give them a warning, then drop the gas and get the dogs ready to take the terrorists down.

No need to kill anyone, unless they are crazy enough to open fire on the government.

[GGJohn]

211. Chances are very good that they're ready for this with gas masks. eom.

[Hulk]

217. True; but it gets damn hard to eat and drink through a mask

The Israelis have tested all the latest tear gas weapons we've produced....let's test them out for a week or two...steady. Plunk...plunk....plunk. What can it hurt?

[Lorien]

236. Would you prefer milk and cookies?

A trip to Burger King, perhaps?

[GGJohn]

237. Would you prefer death and destruction? eom.

[Herman4747]

260. Good Point. Just like an armed terrorist could come into...

a nuclear plant already wearing a bulletproof vest.

[Bucky]

244. I was thinking about those new "nonlethal crowd control" weapons

They're ugly, but apparently quite effective.

[kacekwl]

209. Good idea.

Attention is all they want. Let the leave on their own and arrest them at that time.

[artislife]

210. They want a Ruby Ridge or Waco.

Death by police is their aim.


And yet....the police aren't frightened enough.

[silvershadow]

216. Following the insurrection by the domestic terrorists. nt

[MadCrow]

219. Tell that to the mother of Tamir Rice

These people have committed a crime. They have real weapons, but violence is not the answer. But if you are a 12 year old black boy with a toy gun, you are dead in less than a minute. What is wrong with this picture? Just asking.

[Lorien]

235. And these terrorists are threatening violence if they aren't

allowed to steal and destroy public lands, and all because the Kochs are paying them to do so. Saying "It's OK, no harm done!" will lead to much worse. BLM, for the record, is fucking livid!

[senz]

221. Yep. They want martyrdom, they want publicity,

they're living out a fantasy.

Deny them.

[JohnnyRingo]

223. I agree... wait them out.

They want an armed confrontation to ignite support nationwide.

If denied power and water with no undue attention, they'll leave soon. Then they can be arrested individually. I'm sure the feds know who each and every one of them are.

Hopefully, the news organizations will stay away as well and starve them of the publicity they so desire.

[L. Coyote]

224. They think they are serious, Twitter seems to think they are comedic clowns. Ridicule they got.

Some good new memes today.

[AtheistCrusader]

225. Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.

(Hari Seldon, via the mind of Issac Asimov)

There are some unpleasant folks that were rooting for violence in places like Ferguson. Don't be like them. The siege of Waco led to the radicalization of a white, right wing terrorist that destroyed the Oaklahoma City federal building a few years later.

This kind of shit has consequences. Violence leads to the worst of them.

[PatrickforO]

228. You're right on this one, for sure.

The Bundys and that 'militia' is a group of heavily armed crazies in a nation FILLED with heavily armed crazies. If the president were anyone but Obama, I'd say roll in the tanks and hang 'em high. But alas, Obama has committed the high crime, in these peoples' eyes of being president while being black, so the heavily armed right wing crazies who have been propagandized with ejaculate from the Fox 'news' corporate propaganda organ and hate-talk radio for years and years might see an escalated police reaction as a call to revolution and come crawling out from under their crazy rocks all over the United States.

I think the police should just keep the area cordoned off don't let anyone out or in, and turn off the power. Seriously. They'll come out after a few weeks, especially after the 24 hour corporate owned media news cycle forgets them.

Otherwise will have Duck Dynasty looking 'militias' that are little more than hate groups, like the Stahlhelm was in its day, marching in jackboots and brown shirts through our streets.

And I shit you not. This is a really serious situation - not this one little thing, but what I've described above. Because it is REAL, and thse assholes will cheerfully beat you to death just for disagreeing with them. If these shits get in power the government will begin to build camps...

Let's not go there.

[davidpdx]

230. I agree with you violence is not called for

Turn the power and water off. Make it as uncomfortable for them as possible. Then when they do come out make them face the music for their actions. They need to be put on trial for insurrection of the government.

[RR2]

238. Agreed, you are absolutely 100% correct!

[Bonhomme Richard]

240. Let them have it, fence it off, name it New Somalia....

and do not issue visa's.

[rtracey]

243. hmmm

Last edited Mon Jan 4, 2016, 03:33 PM - Edit history (1)

Really. Just cut the power, communications and water?... Many of these "patriots" are survivalists, hunters, farmers, etc. I would bet many would still be able to survive without power. I think blockage of the roads in and out and allowing their food supply to dwindle. I believe a presence of the law to prevent them from hunting / fishing for food would work.

Also start blasting heavy metal music through some major amps from 8pm until 6am........hahahah

[NoMoreRepugs]

246. when you break the law and are ARMED the race of the

perpetrators should not matter. But this is 'Merica and its the only thing that matters. The longer
this goes on and the more attention it finally draws the more the open sore that is racism in this country will become evident to most (not all of course) of the country

[WhoIsNumberNone]

247. Don't cut the water

Put laxatives in it, but don't cut it.

[left-of-center2012]

248. "cut power, communications and water"

And block access so other armed "patriots" can't join them.
Oh ~ and no pizza delivery.

[Botany]

252. That wildlife area hosts migratory waterfowl in the spring and fall but right now you have a ...

.... whole lot of nothing there except for jack rabbits, coyotes, and antelopes. This area is high
or cold desert and it gets cold and nasty in the winter so I agree w/cutting their electricity and
their water (if they have a well no power = no water) and close them off and they will be out in
no time.


BTW malheur national wildlife refuge is a very successful fed. program started by Teddy Roosevelt.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

253. No, their claim is 200. How they got to that number is telling.

They first had everyone raise their hands and counted each one. Unfortunately, that resulted in the spillage of many beers, and the dropping of loaded weapons with their safeties off.
Once they replaced the beers, treated the self inflicted gunshoot wounds, they tried again, only this time they had everyone put their beer and guns down BEFORE counting.

Then they had two guys, one from each direction, start counting raised arms. they both had 30 each, so they decided to repeat from the opposite direction, to prevent any missing arms. That gave them another 30 each, totaling 120, which in YallQaidaStan rounds up to 200.

[atreides1]

259. I'm not one to trust "reporters"!

There may not be more then 15 there right now, but since the local law enforcement has been in hiding, and the FBI hasn't gotten much in the way of assets on the ground, by the time the feds actually put any plans into place, there could be 200+...and that would probably include women and children!

Right now it's all about who gets there first!

[AlbertCat]

261. Simply cut power, communications and water.

Really.

Some Medieval Knights sieging the place would do the trick. Just cut them off and when they run out of beer, they'll come out.