D.C. roadways crippled by rush hour snowfall...how could this happen?

[Phentex]

WASHINGTON — As D.C. prepares for this weekend’s massive snowstorm, now forecast to reach blizzard conditions, a small clipper system pushed through the region Wednesday night causing massive traffic delays and accidents, and frustrating drivers trying to get to their destinations.

As of 1:30 a.m. Thursday, several gridlock issues remained, including traffic stoppages on Interstate 495 in the area of I-270.

“We do have crews that will be out and continuing to salt and treat slick spots again, but we recognize that the slow-moving traffic is creating a bit of a hindrance for our trucks. … Crews are continuing to be out and will be out in preparation for the morning rush,” Kelly Boulware with the Maryland State Highway Administration told WTOP, just after 1 a.m. “A little bit of sun will help, and certainly the salt overnight will help as well.”

Metrobus service was suspended overnight, and morning service could be impacted by the icy road conditions.

More at link:

[link:http://wtop.com/winter/2016/01/snow-storm-likely-to-dump-inches-of-snow-friday-night-saturday-morning/slide/1/http://|

[oregonjen]

1. So, it's not just Portland!

Out here, we get laughed at when we get one inch of snow and the whole city shuts down.

[kentauros]

3. The same thing happens down here (Houston) when we get snow and ice.

Different areas of the continent have different needs and infrastructure for precipitation. Flooding is our biggest problem with regards to precipitation, not ice and snow. Thus, we have huge storm sewers, which are also separate from the sanitary sewers. And yet, we still flood!

[Phentex]

12. That's right!

This kind of thing can happen anywhere.

[CreekDog]

44. better than spending hundreds of millions each year for underutilized snow removal equipment

[yellowcanine]

2. There were accidents all over the place from the slick road surfaces.

People do not slow down and shit happens. It was not the 1 inch or so of snow that was the problem. It was the accidents.

[Phentex]

9. Well when it happens in Atlanta, it's about how to drive on ice...

or so I've been told.

[Orrex]

31. Well...

Ice is ice, more or less, so a skid in Atlanta could as readily have happened in DC, and if a northerner turns it into a weather-fueled pissing contest, you're dealing with an asshole. I work with someone from Buffalo who likes to thump his chest about the time he drove 40 miles in an apocalyptic blizzard because "we're used to it."

Meanwhile, another guy from Buffalo said that that same storm shut down the city, and the first guy was being an asshole.

So it's not just a north/south thing; it's also a north/less-north thing.


And, anyway, I've had Texans make fun of me when I couldn't readily shrug off 112° midday temperatures like they apparently can, so it cuts both ways.

[KG]

4. I grew up in N Va. it's always been like that. the area is a commuter hell already and the

storm hit at rush hour.

[pinboy3niner]

7. Same thing happened in '82 on the day Air Florida crashed in the Potomac

My normal half-hour drive home from work in D.C. to Northern VA took 5 hours in the snow.

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

19. I remember that well.

Fortunately i was home. My girl friend was stuck at Metro center because of the Metro accident. What a horrible evening.

[Glassunion]

5. Sh1t happens.

Traffic is caused by and incredible number of variables. Each vehicle, driver, the conditions, etc.. are all variables.

One person hits an icy patch, gets a bit sideways, the car behind them is poorly maintained, and skids along on bald tires and runs off the road. Now you have a line of cars in both directions jam packed full of folks who want to rubberneck, a road crew who now has to pull these vehicles out of the way, but they need to block a lane of traffic to do it. Now you have traffic backing up on all of the secondaries as folks bail off of the highways, however now the on ramps can't get salted cause the salt trucks can't get around on the secondaries.

How could this happen you ask? Simple... Sometimes sh1t happens.

[Phentex]

10. Well when it happens here it's because people don't know how to drive...

it doesn't have anything to do with the number of vehicles on the road or the ice or gridlock.

Just wondering why when it happens elsewhere, it's a different story.

[Glassunion]

20. People gernerally know how to drive.

In college we studied traffic patterns for a project, you'd be surprised at the variables involved.

I recall the south bash fest that happened when Atlanta got hit a year or so ago, and the smug sense of superiority that folks from up north were berating folks from the south with.

[LiberalEsto]

6. DC area drivers are notoriously terrible and arrogant

They don't change their usual driving practices (tailgating, switching lanes suddenly and without warning, merciless refusal to extend courtesy to other drivers, speeding in high-volume traffic inches from the rear bumper of the vehicle ahead of them) for snow, rain or other road conditions. Naturally, this causes lots of accidents, spin-outs, overturned cars and pileups, making conditions more dangerous even for safe drivers. All it takes is a certain percentage of assholes - oftentimes the entitled folks in their giant SUVs - to make a mess on the roads.

[Phentex]

13. Do they move to Atlanta?

People here can drive so dangerously. It's dog eat dog.

[LiberalEsto]

16. Or maybe people from Atlanta move here.

All I know is that I lived in New Jersey for the first 38 years of my life, and was astonished to discover how badly they drive in the DC area.

[1939]

32. Northern Virginia

Is a series of ridges running down to the Potomac. Couple that with a lot of traffic lights and bumper to bumper traffic and you will get a lot of people trying to start up on an icy hill.

I grew up in Michigan which is flat as a pancake and never had trouble driving in the winter snows. When I lived in NOVA, I got stuck several times. I finally got an all-wheel drive SUV.

[FSogol]

38. Aslo, we don't get a hard snow pack that hangs around a long time, we get a lot of ice.

The roads are very slippery here (and I drive a Jeep Wrangler). I usually work from home when it gets crappy out. Wish more people could do the same.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

40. That and incompetent DOT

in VA, MD and DC.

All day yesterday it was forecast that with the cold weather we've been having, that one inch of snow would compact and freeze, making the roads a mess if they weren't treated.

And they weren't treated.

[justiceischeap]

8. The problem is that people in the DC area tend to drive like idiots in "weather"

It doesn't matter if it's snow or rain, I've seen it all in both conditions. The major problem is the congestion at I-270 on 495. It doesn't matter the weather, that area always gets congested near rush hour (and rush hour around here is more like rush 3 hours)... add an accident (or rain/snow) and you're just asking for commuter hell.

[Phentex]

11. I think it's typical for any large metro...

But when it happened in Atlanta, it wasn't about the fact that there was complete gridlock before there was ice. No, we were told it was because people don't know how to drive on ice.

[MiniMe]

15. I think it is more that they are spending all their time concentrating on this weekend's blizzard

It is unusual for us to have this extended cold weather here, and when the snow fell, it tuck immediately. It was only a dusting, but it caused a lot of problems

[MurrayDelph]

22. I've long held the theory

that when the weather gets bad, those who usually CHOOSE to use public transportation decide that it's too cold/wet to wait outside, and opt to take their car,

meaning that people who have little skill and experience driving when the weather is nice, go out when the weather is treacherous, having NO skill.

[justiceischeap]

25. You may be on to something there.

I know when I have to work but it's a federal holiday, those are my favorite days to drive in the area 'cause hardly anyone is on the road.

[1939]

34. I lived in NOVA

I lived down by Telegraph and Backlick Rd and worked up at King St and I-395.

Morning commute was half-hour to 45 minutes and afternoon commute was 45 minutes to an hour. Bad accident happened and it could be two hours.

If I had to run into the office early on a Saturday morning, it took ten minutes.

[justiceischeap]

36. Just found this on Facebook and thought of your comment

[1939]

39. One day in the early 1990s when I was still working

I got in the car to go to work and the radio was talking about a big accident on I-95. I thought that was going to be 2 to 3 hours getting to work. I got up to I-95 at Backlick Rd and it was deserted. I was at work in ten minutes but the office was a ghost town. Around 10 o'clock most of the office came in staggering like zombies. An 18 wheeler had jackknifed across the northbound Ocquecon River Bridge blocking all the folks commuting in from Woodbridge, Dale City, and Stafford.

[jberryhill]

14. It's mainly a matter of equipment, supplies and budgets

Say what you want about how people in this or that city drive, but the simple fact of the matter is that a significant capital investment is required to have the equipment and supplies to deal with snowstorms.

Obviously, that sort of thing is a greater component of transportation budgets in places where they are most likely to get used more often.

So, sure, Portland, Maine has a lot more snow removal equipment, supplies, and personnel than Portland, Oregon, because it is not a matter of whether they are going to get a significant snowfall "this year" - they are going to get a few every year.

[hedgehog]

17. but the way things are going, everybody is getting a few every year now.

The first dozen times Atlanta or DC locks up, there may be some sympathy. About now I'm expecting people to notice that it snows in January.

That said, I give a pass to cities like NYC, Boston and Philadelphia. Even the best road maintenance crews are going to have trouble with miles of narrow streets and no where to out the snow.

[Takket]

18. I live in Michigan

We are no strangers to snow, and it is no different here. Snowfalls bring accidents and backups. Its the chance we all take driving in bad weather.

[Kingofalldems]

21. And Snowvechkin II coming this weekend.

[panader0]

23. I wish there was a better solution to icy roads than using salt.

It's terrible for the environment. An earlier link here at DU explained that salting the roads helped
contribute to the corrosive nature of the Flint River.

[B Calm]

24. Solar powered heated roads?

[Travis_0004]

27. not much solar power when its snowing hard.

[B Calm]

29. Solar-powered 'smart' roads could zap snow, ice

(CNN) -- The mayors of New York and Atlanta, Georgia, suffered stinging criticism for their handling of recent winter storms, but in the near future, technology could clear city streets of ice and snow -- by simply melting it away.
America's harsh winters cost the nation's economy billions of dollars each year in snow removal equipment, weather damage to streets and vehicles, extra days of school and revenue lost to closed businesses.

MORE AT: http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/innovation/01/19/smart.roads/index.html

[LiberalEsto]

35. In the DC area they use beet juice to cut down the amont of salt.

They predict that in a few years, the Potomac River will turn to borscht.

[TeddyR]

26. I work in DC

And live in NoVa and was lucky enough to have a client meeting yesterday that allowed me to get home around 6 as opposed to leaving the office around that time on a normal day. The roads weren't treated and there was more snow than anticipated, leading to snowy/icy roads. I saw multiple wrecks just in our neighborhood last night so imagine the major roadways were awful. And it wasn't necessarily poor driving - we live at the bottom of a hill and drivers couldn't control their cars going down the hills and were sliding into other cars and off the road. There were numerous abandoned cars on the roadways when I went to work this morning and some roads were blocked.

[LiberalElite]

28. I saw on Good Morning America that

the secret service and Obama's motorcade was slipping and sliding and he was stuck for a half hour in one inch of snow.

[Mr Dixon]

30. i missed it this morning

i missed it this morning and i'm taking off tomorrow going to skip this madness

[spinbaby]

33. Happened in Pittsburgh, too

Even a well-prepared city has trouble treating the streets when they're covered in traffic. Rush-hour snow is the worst.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

37. Ironically, Minneapolis, where we are used to such things, has had

very little snow since I moved back here 12 years ago.

It's been cold, but I'd be surprised if we have three inches on the ground.

There has been exactly one traffic-stopping blizzard in Minneapolis in those years, the kind where Metro Transit pulls the buses off the streets, because the snow is up to their chassis.

Such blizzards used to happen at least once every year. Whenever it snowed heavily overnight, we'd turn on the radio and listen for the name of our school district in the list of school closings. One year, we were off on a Thursday and Friday because some genius had parked my suburb's snow plows in an open field, and they couldn't dig them out.

Heavy snowfalls still happen in the rural areas, but not here.

[madinmaryland]

41. Shit! All it takes is a little rain any time of year and it doubles your commute time.

Have to go on the Beltway it gets even worse.

[madinmaryland]

42. Have you actually driven in the DC area? All it takes is a few rain drops in the area

and everything gets fucked up beyond all recognition.

[mike dub]

43. Similar commuteagedon happened here in the Triangle region of North Carolina a few years back

The air temp never got above freezing for several previous days straight before the snowstorm and anticipated snow started flying around 1pm and immediately stuck to the roads ( which had been pre treated with brine) but that couple inches of snow sticking immediately on the cold roads had some people in standstills needing Five Hours to get home. Also the weird time the snow actually started falling meant folks showed up to work and could work but suddenly everybody hit the roads at the same time the moment snow started falling, clogging the roads. Some had to abandon their stuck, skidding out vehicles on the side of the roads and walk home. Atlanta had a similar but way more massive snowmeggedon commute that winter too.

FWIW, our forecast for tomorrow is snow, sleet and or freezing rain starting during am commute so some of those who can are already planning to telecommute tomorrow - work from home because roads will be disaster. All counties calling their schools closed tomorrow with plenty of time for parents to know it and prep. Glad it's happeing on a Friday.
M