General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThomas Frank: Dems have gone from the party of the New Deal to a party defending mass inequality
from In These Times:
.....(snip).....
The book is about how the Democratic Party turned its back on working people and now pursues policies that actually increase inequality. What are the policies or ideological commitments in the Democratic Party that make you think this?
The first piece of evidence is whats happened since the financial crisis. This is the great story of our time. Inequality has actually gotten worse since then, which is a remarkable thing. This is under a Democratic president who we were assured (or warned) was the most liberal or radical president we would ever see. Yet inequality has gotten worse, and the gains since the financial crisis, since the recovery began, have gone entirely to the top 10 percent of the income distribution.
This is not only because of those evil Republicans, but because Obama played it the way he wanted to. Even when he had a majority in both houses of Congress and could choose whoever he wanted to be in his administration, he consistently made policies that favored the top 10 percent over everybody else. He helped out Wall Street in an enormous way when they were entirely at his mercy.
He could have done anything he wanted with them, in the way that Franklin Roosevelt did in the 30s. But he chose not to.
.....(snip).....
A lot of progressives that I talk to are pretty familiar with the idea that the Democratic Party is no longer protecting the interests of workers, but its pretty common for us to blame it on mainly the power of money in politics. But you start the book in chapter one by arguing theres actually something much deeper going on. Can you say something about that?
Money in politics is a big part of the story, but social class goes deeper than that. The Democrats have basically made their commitment [to white-collar professionals] already before money and politics became such a big deal. It worked out well for them because of money in politics. So when they chose essentially the top 10 percent of the income distribution as their most important constituents, that is the story of money.
It wasnt apparent at the time in the 70s and 80s when they made that choice. But over the years, it has become clear that that was a smart choice in terms of their ability to raise money. Organized labor, of course, is no slouch in terms of money. They have a lot of clout in dollar terms. However, they contribute and contribute to the Democrats and they almost never get their waythey dont get, say, the Employee Free Choice Act, or Bill Clinton passes NAFTA. They do have a lot of money, but their money doesnt count.
All of this happened because of the civil war within the Democratic Party. They fought with each other all the time in the 70s and the 80s. One side hadnt completely captured the party until Bill Clinton came along in the 90s. That was a moment of victory for them. ................(more)
http://inthesetimes.com/article/19084/listen-liberal-thomas-frank-democratic-party-elites-inequality
KG
(28,751 posts)if you're a working class slob (like me), you have no friends in either party.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)lewebley3
(3,412 posts)I don't understand people who care about their fellow
Americans attacking the Democratic party instead of
the GOP. Its the GOP's policies that crashed the economy
and they don't pay their taxes; they send their income over
seas.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)This is what happening.
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)silvershadow
(10,336 posts)lewebley3
(3,412 posts)been allowed to call himself a Dem at all.
Rass
(112 posts)OwlinAZ
(410 posts)lewebley3
(3,412 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)If you do accept this New Democratic Party and aren't complaining you should have your head examined.
zalinda
(5,621 posts)And, from their viewpoint, so is everyone else.
Z
appalachiablue
(41,103 posts)Last edited Fri Apr 29, 2016, 03:43 PM - Edit history (2)
GUESTS for Bill Maher Show, Fri. April 29: Wayne Pacelle, Thomas Frank, Rob Reiner, Mark Leibovich, Kellyanne Conway.
>More Show Info: http://www.real-time-with-bill-maher-blog.com/
In his sharp appraisal of the current political scene, Thomas Frank, founding editor of The Baffler and former columnist for The Wall Street Journal and Harpers, notes that though Democrats have held the White House for the majority of the last twenty-four years, theres been little commensurate achievement on many social justice issues. With the same common sense and mastery of argument and evidence he wielded in books including Pity the Billionaire, The Wrecking Crew, and Whats the Matter with Kansas?, Frank takes Democrats to task and warns the party to shake its complacency or prepare to be voted out.
In 'Listen Liberal, Or, What Ever Happened to the Party of the People?' (2016) Frank's newest book, the political writer outlines the transformation of the Democratic Party of the New Deal and the Big Tent, to a party of the professional class. Recently Frank has appeared on TV and radio shows of Thom Hartmann and Sam Seder to discuss 'Listen Liberal' and held book talks in Kansas City, Seattle and other places.
Kansas City, MO Library Book Talk, http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017358989
Elliott Bay Bookstore, Seattle Talk, http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017360353
The Big Picture, Thom Hartmann Show, http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1017&pid=340617
Majority Report with Sam Seder, http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017361838
In These Times, April 26, 2016, "Thomas Frank on How Democrats Went From Being 'The Party of the People' to the Party of Rich Elites", Democrats have gone from the party of the New Deal to a party that is defending mass inequality.
The Democratic Party was once the party of the New Deal and the ally of organized labor. But by the time of Bill Clinton's presidency, it had become the enemy of New Deal programs like welfare and Social Security and the champion of free trade deals. What explains this apparent reversal? Thomas Frankbest known for his analysis of the Republican Party base in What's the Matter with Kansas?attempts to answer this question in his latest book, Listen Liberal: Or, What Ever Happened to the Party of the People? According to Frank, popular explanations which blame corporate lobby groups and the growing power of money in politics are insufficient.
Frank instead points to a decision by Democratic Party elites in the 1970s to marginalize labor unions and transform from the party of the working class to the party of the professional class. In so doing, the Democratic Party radically changed the way it understood social problems and how to solve them, trading in the principle of solidarity for the principle of competitive individualism and meritocracy. The end result is that the party which created the New Deal and helped create the middle class has now become the party of mass inequality. Read More: http://inthesetimes.com/article/19084/listen-liberal-thomas-frank-democratic-party-elites-inequality
appalachiablue
(41,103 posts)Last edited Fri Apr 29, 2016, 12:56 PM - Edit history (1)
Thomas Frank won't have a lot of time tonight on Bill Maher, but the Mid-Show Interview will provide viewers with an introduction to his newest book, 'LISTEN, LIBERAL: Or, Whatever Happened to the 'Party of the People?' (2016).
In one book talk Tommy stated an astounding stroke of fate: in Jan. 1998 Pres. BILL CLINTON referenced privatization of SOCIAL SECURITY at the State of the Union address, but soon after the Monica Lewinsky scandal broke out.
Clinton had worked with NEWT GINGRICH at White House meetings in 1997 to privatize the popular, successful social program for the elderly and those unable to work that was created in the 1930s Depression by FDR's New Deal.
forest444
(5,902 posts)Growth sputtered somewhat later in the 1930s; but that turnaround is still the most dramatic in U.S. history for its speed and intensity.
Republicans, of course, always counter that unemployment stayed in double digits until 1941. While technically true, that would only be because FDR insisted that those in the WPA and other jobs programs not be counted as employed for statistical purposes.
Doing so would have shaved 4 points from the unemployment numbers - which is exactly what the Labor Dept. is doing now by using the U1 index for counting the unemployed.
While not perfect, FDR remains our last truly great president.
appalachiablue
(41,103 posts)pushed changes around 1937-38 that caused a dip too. Agree FDR was the finest (wouldn't know it by some here, sorry to say).Yet there must be another good executive leader coming, I so hope.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)appalachiablue
(41,103 posts)intro. for 'Listen, Liberal' will reach many, and help interest and inform people, even the clueless. My hope anyway. Thomas is just a real funny, clever guy, you don't see that much in people trained in history and journalism. I so enjoy seeing him speak and interact with people. Must have been a real fun person in HS and college..
Learned yesterday that I missed his book talk at a nearby venue earlier in April, a place I'm very familiar with.
What Tommy has written of, the transformation of the Party of the People, the New Deal and the Big tent, to the Party of the Top 10% Elites has much to do I think with this disturbing change to 30+ Red State governance.
DWS was made head of the DNC in 2009 when Dems. had the majority and the White House. So WTH is THIS? And are the days numbered, thank you Tim Canova!!
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)wallyworld2
(375 posts)will be on Nicole Sandlers show Radioornot.com May 6, this next Friday.
She does a great interview
Response to Enthusiast (Reply #3)
potisok This message was self-deleted by its author.
Akamai
(1,779 posts)Go Bernie!!!
Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)No finer truth there be!
mountain grammy
(26,598 posts)oh, we've won a few battles, but are definitely losing the war. Only a handful of politicians aren't in it for the money, and Bernie is one of them.
Dustlawyer
(10,494 posts)He will be rewarded!
rateyes
(17,438 posts)Sorry, but that's bullshit.
Dustlawyer
(10,494 posts)Wall Street already gives big bonuses to employees going into government to cover the "low" salary while there, then a big raise and promotion when they come back. It has worked for Eric Holder. It worked for Eric Cantor and he didn't even have a background in banking. Obama wont technically work for them, but he will rake in the money for corporate speeches!
I guess we will see in a year!
rateyes
(17,438 posts)Or, Wall Street.
Angel Martin
(942 posts)supporting financial industry priorities and "free trade".
bbgrunt
(5,281 posts)uponit7771
(90,301 posts)marmar
(77,053 posts)uponit7771
(90,301 posts)marmar
(77,053 posts)..... toward a party driven by and favoring big elite donors and corporate-friendly policies is delusional.
uponit7771
(90,301 posts).. that get reps into congress that push America towards the New Deal is even more delusional.
People are hurting enough to complain, not do something about it... Clinton is right, focus on the off years will bring back more of the new deal than complaining and being angry
marmar
(77,053 posts)uponit7771
(90,301 posts)marmar
(77,053 posts)uponit7771
(90,301 posts)Populist_Prole
(5,364 posts)It's a reasonable one
Angel Martin
(942 posts)Hillary supports the economic and social agenda of the coastal elites, not New Deal priorities
The Democrats would be a totally different party if they were as interested in passing card check as they are in transvestite bathrooms.
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)... purist or winger trolls.
Practical answer is hopefully not ALL of the new deal...
If you're a purist you don't know why all of the new deal should NOT be kept and most likely either support Sanders or trump
libtodeath
(2,888 posts)uponit7771
(90,301 posts)libtodeath
(2,888 posts)My previous statement stands.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)The way you address people is repulsive.
Redwoods Red
(137 posts)Frank is a thoughtful critic of both parties, and this isn't all about Hillary. Doesn't this place have a forum for that?
OwlinAZ
(410 posts)Not much else matters to her.
OwlinAZ
(410 posts)uponit7771
(90,301 posts)bvar22
(39,909 posts)The Arkansas Democratic Primary of 2010 was a heart breaking eye opener for the Grass Roots and Organized LABOR. We were given a Look Behind the Curtain,
and it wasn't very pretty.
[font size=3]We did EVERYTHING right in Arkansas in 2010.
We did EXACTLY what the White House asked us to do to "give the President Progressives in Congress that would work with him."[/font]
We organized and supported Democratic Lt Governor Bill Halter, the Pro-LABOR/ Pro-Health Care challenger to DINO Obstructionist Blanche Lincoln's Senate seat.
Halter was:
* Polling BETTER against the Republicans in the General,
*was popular in Arkansas in his OWN right,
*had an Up & Running Political machine,
* had a track record of winning elections (Lt. Governor)
*Had the full backing of Organized LABOR and The Grass Roots activists
*was handing Blanche her Anti-LABOR ass
...and we were WINNING!
Guess what happened.
The White House stepped in at the last minute to save Blanche's failing primary campaign with an Oval Office Endorsement of The Wicked Witch that Wrecked the Obama Agenda who was actually campaigning at that time as the one who had killed the Public Option!!!
Adding insult to injury, the White House sent Bill Clinton back to Arkansas on a state-wide Campaign/Fund Raising Tour for Blanche,
focusing on the areas with high Black Populations, and bashing Organized LABOR and "Liberals" at every opportunity.
For those of us who had worked hard to give President Obama Progressive Democrats who would work with him, it was especially difficult to watch his smiling Oval Office Endorsement for DINO Blanche Lincoln which played 24/7 on Arkansas TV the week before the runoff Primary election.
White House steps in to rescue Lincolns Primary Campaign in Arkansas
* Bill Clinton traveled to Arkansas to urge loyal Democrats to vote for her, bashing liberal groups for good measure.
*Obama recorded an ad for Lincoln which, among other things, were used to tell African-American primary voters that they should vote for her because she works for their interests.
*The entire Party infrastructure lent its support and resources to Lincoln a Senator who supposedly prevents Democrats from doing all sorts of Wonderful, Progressive Things which they so wish they could do but just dont have the votes for.
<snip>
What happened in this race also gives the lie to the insufferable excuse weve been hearing for the last 18 months from countless Obama defenders: namely, if the Senate doesnt have 60 votes to pass good legislation, its not Obamas fault because he has no leverage over these conservative Senators. It was always obvious what an absurd joke that claim was; the very idea of The Impotent, Helpless President, presiding over a vast government and party apparatus, was laughable. But now, in light of Arkansas, nobody should ever be willing to utter that again with a straight face.
Back when Lincoln was threatening to filibuster health care if it included a public option, the White House could obviously have said to her: if you dont support a public option, not only will we not support your re-election bid, but well support a primary challenger against you. Obamas support for Lincoln did not merely help; it was arguably decisive, as The Washington Post documented today:"
<much more>
http://www.salon.com/2010/06/10/lincoln_6/
After the White House and Party Leadership had spent a truck full of money torpedoing the Primary challenge of a Pro-LABOR Democrat for Lincoln's Senate seat, the Party support for Lincoln evaporated for the General Election, and as EVERYBODY had predicted, Lincoln lost badly giving that Senate seat to a Republican virtually uncontested in the General Election.
Don't you find it "interesting" that the Party Establishment and conservative Power Brokers would spend all that money in a Democratic Primary to make sure that their candidate won, and then leave Their Winner dangling without support in the General Election?
Many Grass Roots Activists working for a better government concluded that the current Democratic Party Leadership preferred to GIVE this Senate Seat to a Big Business Republican rather than taking the risk that a Pro-LABOR Democrat might win it, and it was difficult to argue with them.
This was greatly reinforced by the Insults & Ridicule to LABOR & The Grass Roots from the White House after their Primary "victory" over Organized LABOR & the Grass Roots in the Arkansas Democratic Primary.
When the supporters of Pro-LABOR Lt Gov Bill Halter asked the White House WHY they had chosen to throw their full support behind Lincoln at the last minute, rescuing her failing campaign, the only answer was ridicule and insults.
Ed Schultz sums up my feeling perfectly in the following clip.
http://crooksandliars.com/heather/ed-schultz-if-it-wasnt-labor-barack-obama-
So what did the White House gain by Beating Down Labor and the Grass Roots in the Arkansas Democratic Primary?
We don't know.
The White House has never responded to our questions with an explanation, only insults.
To date, the White House has refused to answer our questions,
or issue an apology for their taunts and ridicule of Organized LABOR and the Grass Roots in the Arkansas Democratic Primary.
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)bjo59
(1,166 posts)Oh, yes, and "purity crap"? I'm constantly amazed how this country has gotten to the point where so many in its population find honesty, the refusal to be bribed, and caring about the conditions of others in addition to those of oneself as something to be mocked and derided. Yep, honesty is seen as the character trait of a clown these days. The signs and evidence of the irreversible decline of this country are everywhere.
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)... it always feels better to hate the people that are there.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)pampango
(24,692 posts)Many more would have hated FDR for his trade policies and his creation of international organization like the UN, the IMF, World Bank and the ITO but on balance most liberals respect what FDR accomplished.
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)... and the reason purist don't get shit done..
Purist is NOT progressive
idlisambar
(928 posts)It's not about "purity" and it's scope is broader than this election.
marmar
(77,053 posts).... when they can offer no actual argument to the point in the piece, or a defense of what the Democratic party has done in the last 30 years.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)we get the purity card played. When it comes to financial matters, the bulk of the dem politicians are little different than pukes. The only real reason to vote D is for social issues.
CobaltBlue
(1,122 posts)That is the keybut not exclusivereason why people vote R or D.
Policy wiseit may actually be that a majority of people do not know or care about policies, not even domestic, because theyre just not all that into politics (despite politics being into them).
BY THE WAY: If I could, I would give your posting response a thumbs-up (or whatever otherwise positive rating).
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)... been the rest of the sentence
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Deriding "purity" while demanding there be absolutely no criticism of the party.
Baitball Blogger
(46,682 posts)Not even sure how it became the party of Civil Rights in the sixties when there were so many Southern Democrats that eventually switched to the Republican party. I guess Civil Rights is associated with the Democratic party because it was passed to honor JFK's desires, even though he did come late to the party.
dembotoz
(16,785 posts)Jitter65
(3,089 posts)marmar
(77,053 posts)They SAY a whole lot of things and do the opposite. Do you think NAFTA or the repeal of Glass-Steagall promoted economic equality? If your answer is yes, I have a bridge over the East River to sell you.
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)... its like fantasy land around here?
marmar
(77,053 posts)..... Dems DID have a majority in Obama's first two years but chose to do absolutely nothing progressive. Or would you rather blame the lazy purists who didn't in the following midterm after watching the Dems do nothing for two years?
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)... change on the filibuster!!
We're being rat fucked proper on DU but you're not posting to a LIV so fuck that shit, they had 59 days of a 60 vote senate and that wasn't 60 progressive votes either
Also
Unlike BLM the people who want FDRs new deal aren't willing to sit on bridges during rush our traffic, they're complaining and not moving...
Clinton is right, focus on the off years not complaining
marmar
(77,053 posts)And BTW, there are a whole lot of pro-New Dealers out in the streets pushing for a higher minimum wage and getting money out of elections. Plenty of activists movements out there, but they're getting no attention. And sorry, but "right wing tripe" is pure projection.
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)Egnever
(21,506 posts)16 states to raise minimum wage in 2016
Angel Martin
(942 posts)in 2009 they could have passed card check. They even had some Repub support.
Instead they decided to pass a Repub designed health insurance "reform".
Reducing insurance costs for ordinary families was not a priority. Making sure this Repub plan covered abortion and sex change operations was a priority.
As is always the case now, the priorities of the coastal elite "Metropolitan Opera" Democrats won.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)and a large Majority in The House that the Democrats could do nothing with it.....
BECAUSE our problem is NOT the Republicans (as you demonstrated), but within our own Party.
You just validated Thomas Frank's entire premise.
Well Done!
I agree with you.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)uponit7771
(90,301 posts)... out of the context to support their meme :rolleyes:
forjusticethunders
(1,151 posts)Unlike BLM the people who want FDRs new deal aren't willing to sit on bridges during rush our traffic, they're complaining and not moving...
Clinton is right, focus on the off years not complaining
A lot of the left would rather lose self-righteously then work (and sometimes compromise) with the system and win. We are nowhere NEAR a revolutionary situation in this country, so if you want a dramatic move to left, you have to move to the left. The only thing that could remotely create a revolutionary situation in this country is electing Tr...wait nevermind, don't want to give you guys ideas.
KPN
(15,635 posts)to know this is true. Party of Progressives my ass. The Democratic Party likes to blame growing inequality on the Republicans when all along they've been complicit in it and actually feeding the fire. Classic misdirection mind control by party elites who are out first and foremost for themselves when it comes right down to it. History will show that Bill and Obama (yes, Obama) aided and abetted Republicans along the way.
Good posts Marmar. Have heart and keep up the fight.
libtodeath
(2,888 posts)It is sickening.
Raastan
(266 posts)It is not shameful to work towards fixing a system you inherit, but it is shameful to trash those whose party you claim to represent...
Response to Raastan (Reply #31)
marmar This message was self-deleted by its author.
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)It's the what the party has become.
appalachiablue
(41,103 posts)One was a Boomer too. Several were younger people who've grown up during Reaganomics, the Free Market 'miracles', neoliberalism, and only experienced Clinton and Obama who to them, define the party.
In one book talk, I liked when Thomas explained how many in FDR's cabinet 'Brain Trust' came from varied backgrounds, schools and areas of the country. One had even been a social worker in Iowa. Imagine that now.
It was during the two Bush and Clinton administrations that Wall Streeters rose to prominence notably Clinton's staff Rubin, Summers, then Geithner and Paulson. Some carried over into the Obama administration. Yale and Harvard were also the schools that Bush, Clinton and Obama attended and the heavy presence of the same academic institutions and training persists in many top level govt. positions. That's an unhealthy system and needs to change.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)pampango
(24,692 posts)http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/1390437-income-inequality-the-reasons-the-consequences/
The percent of total income earned by the 1% hit its historic high at 24% in 1928 just before the stock market crash and the onset of the Great Depression. It fell to 15.5% by 1932 even before FDR was inaugurated because of the Great Depression.
Then income inequality rose for the first 4 years of FDR's presidency by a little less than 4% peaking at 19.3% in 1936. While the economy was recovering and the middle class was doing better than in the 1920's the rich gained more than I would have expected in those first 4 years of FDR. After 1936 income inequality started a long and fairly steady decline thanks to New Deal policies until 1978 when its low of under 9% of income going to the top 1%.
The onset of the Great Recession saw income inequality go down (largely due to the dive in the stock market and its effect on the 1%) more than 5% from 23% in 2007 to 18% in 2009 of total income going to the top 1%. Coming out of the Great Recession income inequality increased by a little over 4% in the first 4 years of Obama's presidency from 18.1% to 22.5%.
I suspect that most of this improvement in income inequality going into recessions/depressions is caused by declines in the values of stocks owned by the 1%. And the initial increase in income inequality coming out of recessions/depressions is caused by increases in the value of those stocks. The real value of the New Deal was that it continued to lower income inequality for decades after 1936 when there were no great depressions or great recessions. And then, of course, we largely abandoned New Deal policies.
Populist_Prole
(5,364 posts)Keep the pressure up to make this party of the New Deal and not merely the one of less bigoted republicans.
Yavin4
(35,421 posts)This is where Frank is dead wrong:
Humphrey, McGovern, Carter, Mondale, and Dukakis were all liberal/pro-union/big government Democrats, but the rank and file members of the unions voted en masse for Nixon, Reagan, and Bush I. For example, PATCO endorsed Reagan in 1980.
It was the White working class voters that abandoned the Dem party following the Civil Rights movement and the Vietnam war. After 1988, the Dems could either change their strategy or keep losing to the Republicans.
idlisambar
(928 posts)Of course you're right that the Republicans used Civil Rights to pull in white working class voters, but it is also true that the Democratic party leadership helped to push away those voters by purposefully shifting the party's center of gravity away from the working class to socially liberal white collar professionals. It didn't happen all at once, but by the early 90's the new deal coalition was buried once and for all. You can see the transition in the candidates you list; Dukakis the technocrat was a very different politician from Humphrey.
Yavin4
(35,421 posts)Franks makes it seems as though the Democrats abandoned the working class where the direct opposite is true. White working class, blue collar, union voters abandoned the Dems in '68, '72, '80, '84, and '88. Each year in those campaigns the Dems either nominated or had a candidate with strong Liberal/pro working class ties and aliiances running.
In 1984, no other Dem was more strongly pro-union in America than Walter Mondale, yet, he lost every state except 2. In 1972, McGovern was anti-war and pro-big government. He lost every state but one.
Excluding this context, he paints a picture that it was the Democratic party leadership that abandoned the White working class, whereas instead it was the other way around.
The party HAD to develop another strategy or face continued losses.
idlisambar
(928 posts)Agreed that the loss of many white working class voters post-Civil Rights Act was a challenge to be overcome, but following the particular strategy it did to deal with that challenge was a choice. That choice had consequences that were harmful to the economic interests of the working class (of all ethnicities) first (70's on) and ultimately most of the middle class (2000's on).
Yavin4
(35,421 posts)When you lose 5 out of 6 elections, what other strategy could they have pursued? Another Mondale? Another McGovern?
idlisambar
(928 posts)And that is to unapologetically represent the economic interests of working people. There was nothing necessarily wrong with reaching out to the emerging professional class but the problem is that Democrats in this period, starting with the McGovern election, marginalized Labor in doing so - both in terms of the party power structure and in the resulting policies that were promoted (finance deregulation, free trade, weakening of labor laws) . Frank goes into some detail about this in the book.
I'll take your point though, there is no question that Civil Rights and Vietnam put a lot of stress on the New Deal coalition in the late 60's and early 70's. The failure of Democrats to recover from that difficult breach left a political vacuum that Reaganism filled. I would take issue with the characterization of the last of those losses. Dukakis, the technocrat, was much more of a New Democrat than a New Dealer and he lost handily to Bush. In any one presidential race sometimes it may come down to the talent of the politician. Bill Clinton was just a better politician operating under more favorable circumstances 4 years later.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)a kick-ass liberal populist who meant it, he would have still won....And probably been a great President and turned back the REagan Revolution.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,282 posts)Thanks for the thread, marmar.
chknltl
(10,558 posts)certainot
(9,090 posts)would tell me if he gave any attention to rw talk radio
SujiwanKenobee
(290 posts)He is talking about what we are **doing to ourselves **to cause and foment inequality, not just to reflexively put it all on the R's.
certainot
(9,090 posts)in the kansas book.
and that's my point - more misleading analysis from the experts who understandably have no clue what rw radio is doing because they don't have time or inclination to listen to it and basically just lump it in with the rest of rw media.
doing to ourselves would have to include ignoring this simple math:
at a cheap $1000/hr x 15hrs/day x 1200 stations, rw talk radio is worth 4.68 BIL$/ year or 390MIL$ /month FREE for coordinated global warming denial, pro republican wall st think tank propaganda, deregulation, hate, and swiftboating
thats what happened to kansas and many other states, and the USA, and it is also a good part of why the democrats have been pushed so far right and keep getting beaten
appalachiablue
(41,103 posts)huge impact. Also the power of Fox TV, the Only station in many communities, also Free, and shown in car repair shops, banks, stores, motels, on military bases, and more. Not to mention Fox's agreements with 100+ US colleges and univs. for sports team coverage. People dismiss the 20+ damage of RW Media so much, except for several I've encountered here.
certainot
(9,090 posts)consider it the biggest political mistake in history
and it's so unliberal to blast dem reps for not sticking their necks out while ignoring and not being aware of how much pounding and obstruction they get thanks to talk radio
obama was an example
SujiwanKenobee
(290 posts)I understand what you are saying but his point is important. As long as the autopilot move on Liberals part is to focus on what the Republicans are doing, ie R radio, obstructionism, etc, we won't turn the spotlight on ourselves and take the 'mote from our own eye'.
It's too easy to always look outward to the Other.
certainot
(9,090 posts)or good liberal candidates, trying to push the dem party
if the protest gets noticed, the blowhards, nationally or locally, get the talking point or distraction or well designed PR attack and they can blast it out there as long as it takes. long after the protestors go home.
the most effective progressives get attacked/swiftboated, locally or nationally - they give it to limbaugh and hannity, or the local blowhards, like the ones helping scott walker so well - as the first batch of emails showed.
or consider all the dem legislation trying to fix the problem that's been obstructed by the tea party. the tea party is nothing more than the dittoheads/ talk radio party renamed by the kochs.
the left is ignoring the fact that a few loud think tank coordinated jerks and liars are louder than they are - the media nor the corporate dems need to listen to them.
want reform? there will be no major reform until the left recognizes how loud they are, and out progressive groups and dems are wasting our donations and vol time as long as they do nothing.
dems are limited to reacting because they're ignoring 1200 coordinated radio stations that are the real bully pulpit, controlling the national buzz, making molehills into mountains and visa versa. dems are always playing catch up because they don't know what the right is doing until after the alternate reality has been created and it's been pounded into the earhole of 50,000 a week.
at a cheap $1000/hr x 15hrs/day x 1200 stations, rw talk radio is worth 4.68 BIL$/ year or 390MIL$ /month FREE for coordinated global warming denial, pro republican wall st think tank propaganda, deregulation, hate, and swiftboating
dems have to go on the offensive and they can win supermajorities.
all major issues can be protested at these 90 universities , which have no excuse for supporting 270 limbaugh stations.
the left has to stop ignoring rw radio and they can get supermajorities in nov
WhaTHellsgoingonhere
(5,252 posts)RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)Right?
sadoldgirl
(3,431 posts)people deride it, they should read it!
davidn3600
(6,342 posts)He was a Democrat all his life and a union man. He passed away before Obama's election. So I dont know what he would have thought about him. But back in the late 90s and early 00's he made many comments to me that the Democratic party isn't what it used to be. He was becoming frustrated with it. He thought it was no longer about the people. It's no longer about the working class. It's now almost entirely about money while pretending to be about civil rights. The Democrats get in office and work hard for the rich. And when the racial and gender inequalities persist, they will just blame the Republicans.
My grandfather also never liked the Clintons. He thought they were oligarchs who represented the wrong direction. He never trusted Bill and always viewed Hillary with heavy suspicion and as someone with ulterior motives. Some of that likely rubbed off on me and why I distrust her so much.
Response to marmar (Original post)
mrr303am This message was self-deleted by its author.
EndElectoral
(4,213 posts)tenderfoot
(8,425 posts)the past 30 years. Hence the Democrats steady move to the right.
Interesting that so many DU conservatives are up-in-arms - what's the matter? Upset your ideas suck ass. Because they do.
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)w0nderer
(1,937 posts)pnwmom
(108,955 posts)FDR created a public bank, the Export-Import bank, as a part of the New Deal, to help US companies export their products overseas -- which helps create jobs in the US.
Bernie opposed the bank that every President has strongly supported since FDR created it. The last time its charter needed to be renewed, he joined with Ted Cruz and other tea partiers who wanted to eliminate the public bank.
I know why the tea partiers oppose it. They always want to privatize everything. But why Bernie wants to make it harder for our companies to export makes no sense.
marmar
(77,053 posts)pnwmom
(108,955 posts)She supports both raising the cap and extending the tax to non-salary income, whatever is needed to keep the system solvent.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Wednesday, June 10, 2015
WASHINGTON, June 10 An opponent of the Export-Import Bank, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) issued the following statement today after the Senate voted on an amendment related to a five-year reauthorization of the bank:
At a time when almost every major corporation in this country has shut down plants and outsourced millions of American jobs, we should not be providing corporate welfare to multi-national corporations through the Export-Import Bank.
Instead of providing low-interest loans to multi-national companies that are shipping jobs to China and other low-wage countries, we should be investing in small businesses and worker-owned enterprises that want to create jobs in the United States of America. If the Export-Import Bank cannot be reformed to become a vehicle for real job creation in the United States, it should be eliminated.
http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/sanders-votes-against-ex-im-bank
Your irrational, reflexive, and frankly rabid hatred of Bernie Sanders is obviously due to something other than his political positions. 'Cause you are completely uninformed about those.
pnwmom
(108,955 posts)none of them are right.
This isn't corporate welfare -- these are loans, not hand-outs, that are paid back with interest. And Boeing employs the vast majority of its workers right here -- most of them in the Seattle area but others at centers around the country.
The Export-Import bank provides loans for large corporations like Boeing, whose orders are too large for the typical private bank, as well as smaller companies. Bernie can't have it both ways, arguing both that private banks should be smaller, and also that private banks should be big enough to take on loans for giant companies like Boeing. His position contradicts itself, like all tea party rhetoric.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)More of that "irrational reason" creeping through.
That's candidate Obama in 2008, saying the same thing.
I await your complete reversal.
While you're coming up with a way to argue that Sanders is a piece of shit for saying something Obama also said, please do some research on environmentalist suits and cases against the Ex-Im bank.
pnwmom
(108,955 posts)the Export-Import Bank. As a candidate he felt there were reporting problems with the bank, and he ADDRESSED them as President. He then felt that the bank was key in helping to deal with our severe recession.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/06/26/candidate-obama-echoing-tea-party-called-ex-im-bank-little-more-than-a-fund-for-corporate-welfare/
The administration now is strongly supporting reauthorization of the bank. I asked the White House how it reconciles its current position with Obama's remarks as a candidate. A spokesman, Eric Schultz, sent over this statement:
Pressed further on how Obama explains the change in his views since 2008, the White House added that Congress directed reforms to Ex-Im in 2012 that required, among other things, submitting quarterly reports to Congress about its default rate and submitting Federal Register notice for each transaction over $100 million.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Was he also "siding with the tea party" (so to speak, we both know there was no "tea party" per se, but the ideology was all there.)
Or is this a criticism you reserve only for Bernie Sanders, pnwmom?
And given how you've been shitbagging FDR and the New Deal all through this primary season, why are you coming after Sanders on this angle?
As I said, your reflexive hatred of the man is not rational or grounded in reality.
pnwmom
(108,955 posts)Then Obama changed his position to supporting it . But the tea party never changed, and neither did Bernie.
Where EVER did I "shitbag FDR and the New Deal" -- whatever that is supposed to mean.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)She's not siding with the truth nor with the LGBT community past or present. So whose side is she taking there? I expect no answer, her boosters are all so thrilled to hear Reagan lauded they don't know what to say.
appalachiablue
(41,103 posts)is growing wide and fairly fast. Very important if disturbing material, and truth.
marmar
(77,053 posts)Thespian2
(2,741 posts)Perhaps people should read Frank's book before pontificating on what it says...
I think Frank is correct in his assessment of the Democratic Party...
zentrum
(9,865 posts)
to underscore, it wasn't until the Clintons came in, that the civil war was decided in favor of the wealthy and against progressive Dems who represent working class people.
Over time, the effect has been that we have no Democratic Party. We have two Republican parties, both representing the same class and both tacking more and more right. It's lethal for Democracy and actually the Founders warned that having parties would endanger Democracy itself.
craigmatic
(4,510 posts)better working conditions. All the policies since Clinton have been aimed at trade deals and corporate welfare.
Teamster Jeff
(1,598 posts)seafan
(9,387 posts)It is no longer debatable that this "new Democratic party" of today has morphed into an unrecognizable thing that goes out of its way to undermine working people's rights; when regular people with genuine altruistic desires try to run for office, party bosses shove them out of the way, only to shoehorn a corporate candidate onto the ballot; electioneering and voter suppression have become the norm; the robber barons and war hawks are the only ones who have the ears of the leadership, certainly not working people, young people, older people, the sick or the impoverished.
We've seen these party leaders blame the victims because corporate greed has robbed them of their homes, their retirement, their health care, their education, their employment, and their children's future. We've seen these party leaders vote for illegitimate wars and never give it much of a second thought, other than to brush off any questions about why he or she came to that decision.
We've seen pay to play, where politicians exploit their positions for self-enrichment, yet expect no one to question them about why regular people see this as obscene and profoundly corrupt.
We've seen heartless acts by these politicians against other countries, all in the name of furthering secretive and highly lucrative agendas, outside of public scrutiny and without regard for laws or national security structure.
Thomas Frank lays out in stunning clarity in his book, what has transpired systemically in the Democratic Party since the 1970s.
A few clips from Frank in a phone interview about his book:
Now, if the problem was that workers werent educated enough, werent smart enough, productivity would not be going up. But that productivity line is still going up. So we can see that education is not the issue.
Its important that people get an education, of course. I spent 25 years of my life getting an education. Its basic to me. Its a fundamental human right that people should have the right to pursue whatever they want to the maximum extent of their individual potential. But the idea that this is what is holding them back is simply incorrect as a matter of fact. Whats holding them back is that they dont have the power to demand higher wages.
If we talk about the problem as one of education rather than power, then the blame goes back to these workers. They just didnt go out and work hard and do their homework and get a gold star from their teacher. If you take the education explanation for inequality, ultimately youre blaming the victims themselves.
Unfortunately, that is the Democratic view. Thats why Democrats have essentially become the party of mass inequality. They dont really have a problem with it.
The McGovern Commission basically set up our modern system of primaries. Before the commission, we didnt have these long primary contests in state after state after state. Primaries are a good thing, as were most things the McGovern Commission did.
But they also removed organized labor from its structural position of power in the Democratic Party. There was a lot of resentment towards labor during the Vietnam War. A lot of unions took President Johnsons side on Vietnam. There was also this sensewhich I think was correct at the timethat labor was a dinosaur, that it was out of touch and undemocratic and very white.
There were a lot of reasonable objections to organized labor at the time. The problem is, when you get rid of labor in your party, you also get rid of issues that matter to working people. Thats the basic mistake that Democrats made in the 70s. Of course, labor still is a big part of the Democratic coalitionit gives them their money, it helps out at election time in a huge way. But unions no longer have the presence in party councils that they used to. That disappeared.
I hope so. Both Trump and Bernie are turning their respective parties upside down. What Bernie is doing is very impressive. I interviewed him a few years ago and have always admired him. I think hes a great man. To think that he could beat a Clinton in a Democratic primary anywhere in this country, let alone many primaries, was unthinkable a short time ago. And hes done it without any Wall Street or big-business backing. That is extraordinary. It shows the kind of desperation thats out there.
He has shown the way, and whether he gets the nomination or not (he probably wont), therell be another Bernie four years from now. And therell also be another Trump. The Republican Party is being turned on its head much more violently than the Democrats. Hillary will probably get the nomination. I live in Washington, D.C., and I spend time around Hillary-style Democrats. They really think that theyve got this thing in the bag. And I dont just mean her versus Bernie. I mean the Democratic Party winning the presidency for the rest of our lives. From here to eternity. They can choose whoever they want. They could nominate anybody and they would win. They think theyre in charge.
Every time I think about these people, it burns me up. It makes me so angry what weve done to them as a society. It really gives the lie to Democratic Party platitudes about the world an education will open up for you. That path just doesnt work anymore. Millenials can see that in their own lives very plainly.
So Im very excited that theyre pro-Bernie. They really are the future.
There is so very much work ahead. But regular people will bring about these changes.
whereisjustice
(2,941 posts)families. There is nothing she won't do for a quick dollar. Nothing. She'll sell millions of families to Mexico, Vietnam, China, India... becuase as she as virtually admitted,she thinks they deserve the jobs more than we do.
Angel Martin
(942 posts)that the self interested jump on the 'progressive" bandwagon as a career move, and the forces of necessary reform get subverted by jackals.
also, there are too many "Metropolitan Opera" liberals who prioritize lifestyle issues affecting 0.001% of the population.
Bathroom free-for-all for transexuals - no effort is too great
card check and bad trade deals - "impossible" to do anything, you are a f**king retard if you complain
whereisjustice
(2,941 posts)Well said.
Populist_Prole
(5,364 posts)Brutally correct.
Like a tersely worded Third-Way manifesto.
I'm going scorched earth and can't wait for the shake-out.
Vote2016
(1,198 posts)ago.
I'm so proud I don't know whether to shit myself or puke.
moondust
(19,958 posts)How about the "Yuppie Party"?
Maybe FDR/Labor Democrats could start a "Peoples' Party."