General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsTrump calls Brexit a "great thing." In Scotland. Right after Scotland called for Second Referendum.
CNN now (if you can stomach hearing him speak).
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)Cooley Hurd
(26,877 posts)joshcryer
(62,276 posts)I can't take my eyes away, once he takes questions he's going to put his foot in his mouth so bad.
AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)joshcryer
(62,276 posts)I have to find a documentary.
AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)joshcryer
(62,276 posts)AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)Denzil_DC
(7,246 posts)But yeah, he's a frikkin clod.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)She said it was likely that they would get one.
Denzil_DC
(7,246 posts)I just don't want folks to run away with the idea that she's made the definitive move yet.
It will only happen if they're certain they can win. Nobody has any idea yet how the Scottish populace is going to react. Hell, I'm still digesting it all myself!
If she decides against a referendum after consulting the Scottish Parliament, say having managed to win favourable deals for Scotland under whatever new arrangements with the EU countries may emerge and in the knowledge there isn't the appetite in Scotland for yet another major political upheaval so soon while Westminster and the EU itself are in turmoil, she'll be pilloried for backtracking/chickening out. That's not a trap I think she's likely to fall into.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)I think she was basically laying out the process in her speech, but when she said she thought it was likely when asked about "options" I think she's ruled out other options from the start. I don't think she thinks there's a solution that saves Scotland while remaining in the UK. And I can't imagine that scenario anyway. The EU allowing Scotland to have all of the benefits of being in the EU but not England and Wales? Just hard to see happening. I don't even think the bylaws would allow it.
Denzil_DC
(7,246 posts)Not insisting I'm right, but I'm obviously a bit attuned to her style and relationship to the media etc. because of where I live.
Basically, she came across as pissed that she was going to have to sort out this mess Cameron et al. have landed us in. Kinda human reaction. She started out by emphasizing that EU immigrants already in Scotland were welcome. Another human reaction. No other politician seems to have given a damn about that sort of thing in public so far.
The implication is that they will continue to be welcome. That may be an important negotiating point for her. We're already fighting Westminster very publicly over a couple of ridiculous and shameful immigration cases where people moved here on the understanding that they'd have certain types of visas (and we're generally much more relaxed about immigration than the rest of the UK and not unhappy with the idea of taking in more refugees than we're currently allowed to), then Westminster just did away with those visas and wants to deport them.
The media here have a fetish for trying to get their headlines by putting her and other SNP figures on the spot with questions about the prospects of another referendum. They've been doing it ever since the first one. Her line all along has been that it would be a decision for the Scottish people, not her (although obviously, as long as she holds her post, she's the one who's actually going to have to oversee enacting any such decision). So I see the pointed questioning after her speech in that context. And, as usual, uncommonly for a politician, she gave a straight answer and they got their headlines.
She mentioned a whole range of international contacts they'd be making, seeking terms for Scotland's involvement along with Westminster in any negotiations, etc. I read the mention of the prospect of preparing for a second referendum as an inevitable result of manifesto commitments, but also as a bargaining chip in negotiations with Westminster.
Then there's the revelation about her interaction with London mayor Khan, who's rumoured to be seeking some sort of free trade agreement.
So I don't agree that she ruled out other options. There are no other options at the moment because nobody in the triumphal Leave camp knows what the fuck they're doing and nobody knows how the EU's going to react.
For instance, there's some kite-flying that the Germans might offer some sort of associate EU membership to the UK, but that would have to be agreed with all the other EU member states. There's a parallel with what you characterize as "all of the benefits of being in the EU". And knowing the EU, negotiations are never straightforward. Everybody's got a tit they want a tat for.
There are many countries that have quite idiosyncratic relationships with the EU countries via EFTA, the European Economic Area etc. But it's obviously a two-way process, no free lunches, and it's hard to predict what the EU as a whole might be prepared to offer, and what precedents they might be willing to set.
For instance, one leading Leave figure has already publicly accepted (after the result, of course) that the exit won't actually reduce immigration, which a number of us on the Remain side have been screaming at the telly every time it's come up!
I think there's going to be a lot of buyers' remorse in the next few months. Oy.
Native
(5,942 posts)Scotland didn't just vote to stay; every Scottish council voted against Brexit!
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)pampango
(24,692 posts)"Tear up" international agreements? Withdraw from international organizations in the interest of national sovereignty (and conservationism)? Check.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)joshcryer
(62,276 posts)He was talking about the golf course.
And ROFL! CNN just called Trump out for Scotland's referendum calls! OMFG. It cannot get better than this.
Cooley Hurd
(26,877 posts)EVERYONE is pointing out the doofus is just blabbering on about his stupid golf courses and not talking about Brexit *even when he's in GB*!!!!!!!
I love Chris Cuomo!!
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)This is going to be the news of the day. My god.