Brexit vote to Leave is the end result of stupid people voting

[Stinky The Clown]

They are stupid because they do not get any real information from their version of the Fourth Estate.

This same phenomenon can EASILY happen here. Indeed it HAS happened here. Our current US House and Senate are testimony to the power of the stupid.

First and foremost I blame the media.

[uponit7771]

1. It should have NEVER EVER been a simple majority vote on something so changing to UK

[David__77]

7. Did joining the EU require a referendum at all?

Let alone one that required a supermajority?

[cherokeeprogressive]

21. For some people, democracy of any kind is a one way street. nt

[RAFisher]

36. No. They had a referendum two years after joining affirming that they remain in the EU.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_European_Communities_membership_referendum,_1975

[David__77]

45. Ah ok. Well I suppose they may change their minds again at some point.

...

[PatSeg]

25. That is a very good point

Should have been as difficult as a constitutional amendment in the states.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

30. Yes. And unnecessary vote too. Cameron will go down as one of the stupidest UK politicians ever. .nt

[auntpurl]

37. Amen. And most arrogant. nt

[The2ndWheel]

2. The Homer Simpson theory

Can't have it both ways. Either you have voting, or you bar stupid people from voting. Obviously the definition of stupid will be dependent on which side you're on, since nobody is going to call the people voting for the things they themselves want stupid. Which is why we allow everyone to vote, because if we kept it to non-stupid people, nobody would be allowed to vote, because everyone thinks everyone else is stupid.

If the other side of the side you're on is always stupid, then nobody ever has to listen to what the other side of of the side you're on has to say, because they're stupid. It's a wonderful way to do it. Nobody has to talk to the other side that way. The internet only helps that, because we can all insulate ourselves to anything that we don't agree with, very easily.

I think the stupid theory is far too simple, because people only call what they don't agree with stupid. Nobody would call what they agree with stupid, since that would make you stupid, but you can't be stupid, since you're not on the stupid side, and would never be on the stupid side, because nobody would voluntarily be on the stupid side.

[Ilsa]

3. I blame them for voting for W, whom I believe is

Indirectly responsible for this. He destabilized the M.E. That led to more muslim countries in north Africa, Syria, etc destabilizing, leading to a bigger immigration/ refugee issue. The folks living in the shire didn't want to having anything to do with it. I think it became the straw that broke the camel's back.

[calimary]

33. Good point, Ilsa. He DID destabilize the Middle East, which certainly has given a whole new meaning

to the term "trickle down."

What really shocked me were the reports I've seen this morning about how many people who voted "Leave" are now wondering if they maybe should have voted the other way...

Nobody thinks about consequences anymore. Nobody thinks about the ramifications of extreme measures like this. Nobody!

Reminds me of what happened here in California in 1978, when nobody thought about the consequences of ramming that Proposition 13 bullshit down everyone's throats. Nobody listened to the cooler heads who tried to explain things in full and come up with alternatives that were much more workable. It spread like a cancer across the country and caused the "I Hate Taxes" revolt that still has a big hold on too many people. And NOBODY has successfully beaten that back. NOBODY realizes what those taxes pay for - like, for example, all the things they like and approve of, and that in many cases they've come to depend upon.

Here, too, the same thing. They voted with their hearts instead of their heads. They voted for the feeling, the quick fix, the dumbed-down assumptions, the pleasure of making an in-yer-face statement just for the sake of being in-yer-face, the "nobody tells ME what to do!" crap, the purported "righteous indignation" of IGMFU. And that won't serve them at all. It won't serve any of their needs. But it WILL serve them, alright. On a platter.

[Hekate]

50. This is what "direct democracy" looks like scaled up from the town hall, where it works, to a State

...the size of California, where it begins to break down. My late mother saw the effects of Prop 13 immediately, when the local public library had to drastically scale back its hours. She complained about other effects as well, but that one really hurt, and she seems to have been one of the few who saw the connection.

But moving on to "direct democracy" scaling up -- it simply does not work on the massive scale needed for nations. It's why we have elections of people who will represent our interests and make it their full time job until we have another election. It's why ... Argh ... Checks and balances...

People are going with their guts, not their brains or their hearts.

I think DU is having one of its psychotic episodes. I'm shocked at the number of people who call for "direct democracy" because apparently that will give us a leader as benign as Bernie Sanders. I look at the divisions in this country and it could just as easily give us Donald Trump, the way the UK just got Brexit.

[Ilsa]

59. The average person just barely has enough information to understand the

General ideas about these big decisions. Most of them don't understand the details and consequences for those details. Hence, we need representative democracy, professionals to look at all the evidence before taking a position. I'm not surprised to hear that many are regretting their vote.

I'm a little surprised the threshold was a simple majority vs 3/5ths or something.

[NightWatcher]

4. Hello, is this thing on? Nominee Trump?!?

[Native]

5. It all started when Reagan killed the Fairness Doctrine.

we haven't had anything approaching an unbiased or fair media since then.

[cherokeeprogressive]

22. He must have had pretty good aim when he pulled the trigger on the Fairness Doctrine in Europe. nt

[deurbano]

34. I believe the poster is commenting on the rest of the OP's comments:

<<They are stupid because they do not get any real information from their version of the Fourth Estate.

This same phenomenon can EASILY happen here. Indeed it HAS happened here. Our current US House and Senate are testimony to the power of the stupid.

First and foremost I blame the media.>>

[Native]

57. Thank you.

[Fresh_Start]

32. Its also due to the rise of cable TV and the internet

during the golden age of news....people paid for news
Many people also read a newspaper everyday

now, we are headline viewers
and get biased news from sources who are selling us (our eyes) as a commodity.
so of course you get the sensational news ....with the attention grabbing headlines
instead of indepth, critical news

[snooper2]

6. Nah, they were just figuring they were never part of Europe anyway, I mean look at it..

Just a couple of Islands LOL

[Bernardo de La Paz]

28. Wrong. Really look at Europe:

[Hekate]

51. Yes

[Triana]

8. Yep. And heeeeere comes TRUMP. n/t

[brentspeak]

9. Yes, the global 1% know better than the little people

Thanks for making clear one of the reasons the English no longer wanted to be controlled by Brussels.

[treestar]

14. This is carrying Bernie's stuff too far

Technology will make the economy more and more global.

[KPN]

27. +1! Exactly.

[underpants]

10. Murdoch has a strong presence there too, correct?

THE US Senate is a result of ignorance and, frankly, overrepresentation of smaller states - the second part isn't going to change.

The US House is due to gerrymandering.

[eppur_se_muova]

11. Murdoch media to control over a fifth of UK news consumption (Guardian)

http://www.theguardian.com/media/organgrinder/2010/dec/30/murdoch-to-control-22percent

[underpants]

15. I'm assuming his organizations supported Leave

[auntpurl]

38. Oh yes nt

[Stinky The Clown]

12. Gerrymandering as it has been taken to a high art form started with the Stupid vote.

[treestar]

13. There's already an article somewhere

about how many who voted for it didn't realize what they voted for.

[Stinky The Clown]

16. I heard one woman interviewed who said her whole family voted to leave as a protest vote . . . .

. . . . . thinking the polls were strongly in favor of staying. Now she says they all regret their votes.

[treestar]

17. Yes and here is some more on it:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027950367

[forjusticethunders]

18. House is product of gerrymandering, Senate is a fundamentally anti-democratic system

The Senate basically gives Montana the same voting power as California despite having 10% of the population.

[Stinky The Clown]

19. See post 12, above

[Hekate]

52. The basic theory of the Founders had to do with checks and balances in government plus ....

.... NOT direct democracy on the federal level. Some of them had serious concerns about mobocracy.

With good reason.

[gratuitous]

20. An interesting table I swiped from Balloon Juice

I can't copy-and-paste, but you can see it here:

https://www.balloon-juice.com/2016/06/24/friday-morning-open-thread-brexit-dont-panic/#comments

Here's the interesting (to me) part:

Age Remain Leave
18-24 64% 24%
25-49 45% 39%
50-64 35% 49%
65+ 33% 58%

The longer folks have to live with this decision, the more likely they were to vote to remain. I'm not saying that's the sole consideration that drove people's votes, but this decision skews greatly by age.

[deurbano]

40. Possibly another factor is the older voters think they are "taking back" something,

while the younger voters have never known anything but membership in the EU (or the EC before that). For them, there is no experience of that which (supposedly) needs to be retaken.

[TexasBushwhacker]

46. I wonder what the actual numbers were for each age bracket

Did too many young people just not vote?

Ultimately, Cameron failed to convince voters to remain. I think this was probably just as much a referendum on him as it was on Brexit. Not unlike the Senate refusing to approve Obama's nominee for SCOTUS even though he's about as middle of the road as you can get. They just don't want to approve OBAMA'S choice. Now they will likely have to approve Clinton's choice.

[daleo]

49. For younger people, membership in the EU has been the status quo all their lives

So, they voted for the status quo that they knew. For older people, they knew the non-EU status quo best, since they came of age under it. For the middle-aged, their experiences were a bit of both, so their vote was quite equal.

That's how I see the age effect working out.

[Ex Lurker]

23. People don't like being told what to do, even if it's good for them

nt

[Nuclear Unicorn]

24. If you're hoping to counter the Leave campaign's characterization of Remain as elitist

you're doing horribly at it.

[w4rma]

26. It looks like Britain doesn't like these 'free' trade agreements, either. (nt)

[Bernardo de La Paz]

29. The polarization between ignorant bigotted older voters for Brexit and the rest is very striking:

[enid602]

31. stupid

Thank God we don't have many stupid people here.

[elmac]

35. result of stupid people voting

and that may be how Trump becomes president, there are plenty of those voters in the USA.

[RAFisher]

39. The amount of anti-intellectualism on the Leave side struck me as astonishing

Their complete dismissal of experts was pretty remarkable. No wonder most of them weren't college educated. As Aristotle said:

“The more you know, the more you know you don't know.”

[Bernardo de La Paz]

43. Yes UKIP leader admitted on TV lieing outright. Boris Johnson repeated debunked EuroMyths. . nt

[philosslayer]

44. It almost makes one want to declare that only the college educated can vote

I assume thats your conclusion? Because after all, one must be college educated to REALLY understand how the world works.

[Wednesdays]

55. It'd be good if everyone were college educated

Everyone who wants to be, anyway.

[Cosmocat]

41. The stupid is strong in this country, but the media is not the root cause

it is a mild influencer, but we have hit a critical mass now where people are out and our rejecting simple reality and facts, and in fact are completely dismissive toward knowledge, facts, and those who poses them.

The influence of the media is over estimated.

We just are that fucking stupid of our own volition.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

42. Yes. Critical thinking is not taught & not respected. Athletes & celebs are "heroes". . . nt

[workinclasszero]

47. Heres the scary part

The media over there is waaaaaaay better than it is over here!

Hate radio and fox "news" anyone?

[mckara]

48. I Don't Agree

People are sick of multinational corporations and big banks hollowing out democratic institutions for the sake of chasing dollars and privatizing the social safety net to extinction. People want the power to control their own lives and their wealth should not be the arbitrator of their futures and the futures of their children.

[840high]

54. Yep. People

are tired of deaf politicians.

[chillfactor]

53. yep...

as STUPID as trump voters...

[egduj]

56. Don't we know that from the primaries.

[PJMcK]

58. You really can't blame "the media"

Your thesis is right on the money, Stinky, and I agree that stupid people will vote for stupid people.

The media, however, isn't to blame; it's the stupid people. Stupid people don't educate themselves about facts and knowledge. Sadly, there are far too many stupid people and the Brexit vote illustrates that the Stupid isn't limited to the USA.

For the most part, the posters on Democratic Underground are informed and intelligent members of society. They make it their responsibility to search out the news from various sources and then try to distill some kind of "truth" from it all. There are others in our society that perform this basic civic duty to be well informed using whatever sources they have available.

Conversely, far too many Americans (and presumably, citizens of other countries) don't try to be informed. They get their news from "The Today Show" or Fox News or Headline News. The complexity of the 21st century world cannot be distilled and understood in the 15-second sound bites or brief internet headlines that make up most of broadcast and published news. It's the responsibility of an informed public to oversee its government. That's why our Constitution begins with, "We, The People..." Unfortunately, far too many people, particularly on the political right, have embraced ignorance as a strength.

So, I believe it's the stupid people's fault. If they weren't stupid, we'd have better news. In the end, all media is a reflection of its society.

[tblue37]

60. There is a difference between stupid and ignorance. Most people have

sufficient wattage, but either through no fault of their own or because of their own foolishness or maliciousness they don't inform themselves or apply their intelligence to override their emotional reactions.

[joshcryer]

61. I'll leave this here:

https://amp.twimg.com/v/7b0bb47f-6655-435a-8906-99529534de58

(Note, I hate the stupid people voting argument.)