Two types of gun laws: one for blacks and one for whites.

[pnwmom]

By Eugene Robinson

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2016/09/23/two_types_of_gun_laws_one_for_blacks_and_one_for_whites_131869.html

WASHINGTON -- If you are a black man in America, exercising your constitutional right to keep and bear arms can be fatal. You might think the National Rifle Association and its amen chorus would be outraged, but apparently they believe Second Amendment rights are for whites only.

In reaching that conclusion I am accepting, for the sake of argument, the account given by the Charlotte, North Carolina, police of how they came to fatally shoot Keith Lamont Scott on Tuesday. Scott's killing prompted two nights of violent protests that led Gov. Pat McCrory to declare a state of emergency. On Friday, police in Tulsa, Oklahoma, shot and killed Terence Crutcher -- an unarmed black man -- and the two incidents gave tragic new impetus to the Black Lives Matter movement.


Scott's relatives claim he was unarmed as well. But let's assume that police are telling the truth and he had a handgun. What reason was there for officers to confront him?

North Carolina, after all, is an open-carry state. A citizen has the right to walk around armed if he or she chooses to do so. The mere fact that someone has a firearm is no reason for police to take action.

SNIP

[MrScorpio]

1. Basically, it's always been open season on black people in this country...

Our laws have always reflected this fact... The police are only following suit.

[malaise]

2. It is what itis

institutional racism

[jmg257]

3. Apparently holding a gun AND smoking a bone was enough to get confronted.

[uponit7771]

15. He was not smoking anything, he was rolling something the LEO percieved to be a blunt

[jmg257]

18. Thanks! Picture commentary said it was 'what looked like smoked mariuana cig'.

[uponit7771]

19. Yeap, that's the justification the stupid M$M is giving for even engaging Scott cause people are...

... starting to ask why was he even confronted seeing having a gun isn't illegal in NC.

The officers account also doesn't line up with their statements, why try to smash his windows with a baton if he had a weapon...

That doesn't make sense...

I'm still not past them planting a weapon or him even having one seeing there's no photo account of a weapon in his hand

[Bernardo de La Paz]

4. Most often there is a component of "failing to follow police orders".

But of course whites tend to get a different set of orders, tend to get more negotiation, tend to be given time to climb down from tense situations.

Policing attracts (unfortunately) some bullies who really do not like have their orders disobeyed.

[pnwmom]

5. Can you point to data to support the idea that black people are less likely to follow police orders?

I doubt it.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

6. You don't get the thrust of my post. You have it backwards. Read it again. Perhaps I wasn't clear en

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough.

It is easy to follow orders that are like "Ok, stay there, let's talk this out" versus a bully cop demanding "Drop that gun now! Get on the ground this instant!". Often people are a little confused and they are not thinking at their best when dealing with rapid fire demands in a tense situation.

So when two sets of people are equally equally capable more or less of following orders (as they are, since both sets are people), then it is the tone and nature of the orders that make the difference.

I made no assumption that there was any difference in capability of following orders and there is nothing in my post as I wrote it that would lead a reasonable reader to think that about me. I think it would be the right thing if you were to apologize a little for assuming I was a racist.

[pnwmom]

8. Since my post was about different rules for blacks and whites,

and you replied by saying most often there was an element of failing to follow orders, I misunderstood you.

But I was not calling you a racist.

I still don't know where the data is for saying most often there was an element of failing to follow orders.

Tamir Rice, for example, didn't fail to follow orders. They just shot him seconds after arriving. I haven't seen statistics for how often that sort of thing happens.

[Coolest Ranger]

11. Even when you follow the orders

of a cop you still wind up being shot and killed

[uponit7771]

16. +1, there was an unarmed black guy lying on the ground with his hands up and he's still shot

[BumRushDaShow]

7. It is Dred Scott

and it is "still the law of the land". This may have appeared to be a faux pas from Huckleberry Hound but this is what is believed. I.e., the 14th Amendment does not exist or apply to POC in their minds.

From Scott vs Sandford (1857) -

<...>

4. A free negro of the African race, whose ancestors were brought to this country and sold as slaves, is not a "citizen" within the meaning of the Constitution of the United States.

5. When the Constitution was adopted, they were not regarded in any of the States as members of the community which constituted the State, and were not numbered among its "people or citizens." Consequently, the special rights and immunities guarantied to citizens do not apply to them. And not being "citizens" within the meaning of the Constitution, they are not entitled to sue in that character in a court of the United States, and the Circuit Court has not jurisdiction in such a suit.

6. The only two clauses in the Constitution which point to this race treat them as persons whom it was morally lawfully to deal in as articles of property and to hold as slaves.

7. Since the adoption of the Constitution of the United States, no State can by any subsequent law make a foreigner or any other description of persons citizens of [p394] the United States, nor entitle them to the rights and privileges secured to citizens by that instrument.

<...>

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/60/393

14th Amendment (ratified 1868) -

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

<...>

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxiv

When you have a whole segment of the populace who do not consider POC as "people" (but rather, believe corporations are "people" instead), then this is why we POC have not consistently been given the courtesy of due process or equal protection under the law.

[jtuck004]

9. Same gun laws. Interpreted differently based on skin color. Just like we give out housing

loans, jobs, business opportunities, etc.

If it were two sets of laws it would be easier to achieve "equality" -just get rid of one. But we have carefully crafted a way to use race to determine one's rights, and that is much harder to disassemble.

I doubt we ever will fix it, not as we know the place anyway.

[Coolest Ranger]

10. Its funny

everyone is always telling me to carry a gun. Are you kidding me? I didn't like guns before and now that cops are gunning for me for even holding a gun in a state that is "supposed" to be open carry do you honestly think I'm going to be quick to buy a gun now knowing cops will kill me if they even think I have a gun.

[Jon King]

12. I am amazed

by the TV pundits that say this case can not be indicted. The man was in his car in an open carry state with a visible gun, no crime. The cop thought he saw him smoking pot. A very minor offense. They ordered him out of the car, but perhaps he might have had hearing issues, they had no idea. He eventually got out of the car. He backed away looking dazed and confused, never raised his weapon. The cops were fully protected behind a pick up truck. He never verbally or physically threatened anyone.

The response to a dazed man, walking slowly backwards, not posing any immediately threat, just not responding to orders, is to kill him. How on earth is that not a crime?

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

13. "Open carry" generally means "in a holster" or "in your waistband".

It doesn't mean "in your hand".

IF the guy had a gun in his hand, and failed to drop it when the cops ordered him to drop it, then the outcome is predictable. If he didn't have a gun in his hand, then the cop was in the wrong.

Hopefully, there'll be enough clear video to settle the issue.

[Coolest Ranger]

21. and may I remind you of the Planned Parenthood

killer who had dozens of guns and was trying to shoot and kill cops. Did they unload on him? No, they went out of the way to talk him out of killing anyone else. So explain to me why white people with guns get a pass and we don't

[Lee-Lee]

22. Just like the DC snipers were blown away for being black and armed

Oh, wait...

You can cherry pick examples to fit any narrative you wish to build.

[Coolest Ranger]

24. Just like you can cherry pick examples too

This is what is pissing off so many of us. People of a certain color get a pass but when I try to stand up for myself and my race since my people are the ones getting shot and killed by police for no reason I'm cherry picking.

[uponit7771]

14. +1, The 2nd amendment is truly a whites only law in America

[NutmegYankee]

17. Guns laws are no different than any other legal activity (like walking/driving) for which POC are

shot. They apply equally, but get enforced differently based on the racism of the cop.

[Lee-Lee]

20. "open carry" in NC doesn't mean you get to do whatever with nobody checking

There are also other laws that can come into play, including one called "armed at the terror of the public".

A police officer will look at the circumstances- how is it carried, persons other actions, location. A gun in a holster with a person acting normally probably won't get investigated more. A pistol in the hand carried as if one is about to shoot will. Dense urban areas where seeing it is much more unusual will get looked at more than someone in a more rural area.

Totality of the circumstances comes into play.

But regardless, an officer can always briefly investigate an openly carried firearm, the assertion that they can't in NC is patently false.

[Rex]

23. Pretty obvious there are two sets of rules.

The apologists will never see it or for some of them it is lack of concern.

[LeftInTX]

25. One of the reasons for the 2nd Amendment was to control slaves

James Madison drafted the Second Amendment to assure his constituents in Virginia, and the South generally, that Congress could not use its newly-acquired powers to indirectly undermine the slave system by disarming the militia, on which the South relied for slave control. http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1465114

[jmg257]

27. ANd because of the peoples' fear of large standing armies. Times have certainly changed.

[Hoyt]

26. And there are a bunch of armed George Zimmerman police wannabees out there.

Stand Your Ground laws are another example.

[ileus]

28. Everyone should be able to exercise their 2A rights without worry or fear of harassment.

[pnwmom]

30. How do we protect unarmed people who want to exercise their right to enter public spaces

without encountering crazed shooters?

We have open carry here in WA and it allows people like Cetin Arcan to enter parks or shopping malls without fear of harassment. And the police can't do anything until the person starts shooting. Then it's too late.

The father of Cetin was his inadvertent gun supplier. He's a big 2 Amendment supporter and owns multiple guns. Cetin had a court order not to use a gun, but that didn't stop him from getting hold of one of his father's and killing 5 people.

[ileus]

33. First thing is to ditch the idea of self defense free zones.

Everyone should have the basic right to self defense even when entering public spaces.

As for Cretins fathers, he really should invest in a few high quality safes. I keep my firearms in one of three safes...you can't be too safe after all with these investments.


When was the last time you seen an open carrier? When was the last time a true open carrier started shooting? Is there a difference between an open carrier and conceal carrier besides the fact it won't distract people from their cell phones?

[roamer65]

29. White gun humpers hate the idea of minorities having firearms.

I've confronted a few on it and they get silent on the topic of equal 2A rights.

It's the same ideology at play when you only see white babies on anti-abortion billboards.

[friendly_iconoclast]

31. Good thing we don't have any of them at DU!

[Marengo]

32. What is the difference between a "white gun humper" and a white gun owner?

[dembotoz]

35. statistcally i am white and more likely to be shot by a white

would anticipate i would be shot by a gun humper---as in some fool like george zimmeran as opposed to a gun owner--those who are going deer hunting in nov.

[Marengo]

36. Would your definition of a gun humper include anyone who carries a concealed firearm?

I'm asking as I see this term used often on DU, but as of yet am uncertain of any clear or consistent definition.

[Odin2005]

34. Republicans were totally for gun control when the Black Panthers were teaching blacks...

....how to defend themselves.