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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSerial killers and trophy hunters like TRUMP'S KIDS are " terrifyingly similar" Please tell people!
Last edited Mon Dec 26, 2016, 01:19 PM - Edit history (2)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ingrid-newkirk/the-pastime-of-psychopath_b_8084410.html(EDIT: - This article is about TROPHY hunters. It is not about people hunting deer or anything else that is hunted for food. I see a huge difference between the two and the article specifically talks about the ones that fly to exotic lands to kill for the sake of killing. I do not judge people for hunting like my grandfather's hunted and I realize that if you eat meat you are eating something that has been killed. THIS ARTICLE IS IS ABOUT SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT!)
Serial killing and trophy hunting are terrifyingly similar. As wildlife researcher and author Gareth Patterson* points out, both types of killers often immerse themselves in violent imagery. Hunting magazines are designed to titillate hunters and help fuel violent fantasies of stalking and killing prey. They are full of pictures of hunters standing victoriously over animals they have slain, the obvious message: Kill somethingor, rather, someoneand you, too, can achieve greatness.
Patterson notes that both types of killers enjoy the excitement of planning their kills and building anticipation while they stalk their eventual victims more than the actual act of killing. And how many times have you heard hunters say, Its more about the hunt than the kill? They describe in detail their love of being outdoors, seeing their intended prey for the first time, tracking them down, cornering them and conquering them. Perhaps, like many serial killers, theyve actually become addicted to the adrenalin rush they get from controlling their victims fates.
According to John Douglas, one of the FBIs first criminal profilers, serial killers who take souvenirs from their victims do so to prolong their violent fantasies. Some take jewelry or locks of hair, while others take photographs or body parts. Trophy hunters proudly display their victims severed animal heads on their walls and share photos of themselves on social media grinning beside their corpses. Like serial killers, trophy hunters are compelled to prove their status as a person who has power over life and death. Between hunts, both value their souvenirs as a way to remember the power they once held over another living being.
radical noodle
(8,012 posts)often start by abusing animals as children.
Initech
(100,099 posts)RedWedge
(618 posts)Fichefinder
(167 posts)and a lot of my (Democrat) beer drinking, meat-eating friends do. I have pictures of myself with animals I have killed and yet I have managed to avoid killing anyone as far as I remember. Adolf and Fuckface are assholes because they are assholes. Try to paint with a little smaller brush here, please.
Maraya1969
(22,494 posts)hedda_foil
(16,375 posts)lunatica
(53,410 posts)Nowhere does it say that hunting for food is the same as big game hunting. You know, the kind you pay other people to find for you while you while away the time being treated like royalty by servants in the African Plains. The kind that is illegal in places, but you do it anyway because you want to mount the animal's magnificent head on your walls while re-living the excitement of tracking it down with the help of professional trackers, and killing with the help of others handing you the correct arms to bring down the largest animals on the planet. Like Elephants and Rhinos for example. Have you ever heard of anyone besides the scavengers eating their meat?
Your type of hunting would be sneered at from the Trump boy's idea of what to hunt. They spend the big bucks so they can mount heads, not eat the elephant or lion flesh. They spend more than someone like you makes in a year just for one hunt.
The similarites with serial killers is obvious. What you do it nothing like what serial killers do.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)Ingrid Newkirk who uses animal-derived insulin, but puts down 95% of the animals they 'rescue'.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/05/pets-shelter-euthanization-rate_n_6612490.html
Why should I listen to this shitstain?
Maraya1969
(22,494 posts)X_Digger
(18,585 posts)otohara
(24,135 posts)and others who use Bovine insulin.
Why was it necessary to call her such a vile name?
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)otohara
(24,135 posts)The Huff Post article doesn't jive with Wikipedia - if the pets are extremely sick what's your solution?
What does this have to do with her use of insulin to stay alive?
PETA opposes the no-kill movement,[98] and, according to its most recent filing with The Virginia Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services (VDACS), euthanized 81 percent of the animals that ended up at its shelter.[99] According to VDACS, PETA took 3,017 animals into its shelters in 2014, of which 2,455 were euthanized, 162 were adopted, 353 were released to other shelters, and 6 were reclaimed by their original owners.[100] The group justifies its euthanasia policies toward animals who are not adopted by saying that it takes in feral cat colonies with diseases such as feline AIDS and leukemia, stray dogs, litters of parvo-infected puppies, and backyard dogs and says that it would be unrealistic to follow a no-kill policy in such instances.[101] PETA offers free euthanasia services to counties that kill unwanted animals via gassing or shootingthe group recommends the use of an intravenous injection of sodium pentobarbital if administered by a trained professional and for severely ill or dying animals when euthanasia at a veterinarian is unaffordable.[102] The group recommends not breeding pit bulls and supports euthanasia in certain situations for animals in shelters: for example, for those living for long periods in cramped cages.[103]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_for_the_Ethical_Treatment_of_Animals#Euthanizing_shelter_animals
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)30,000 pets, dead.
Fuck that shitstain.
citood
(550 posts)AFAIK it had nothing to do with PETA, but it was a 'kill' shelter.
As part of the orientation, they gave us the numbers about how many adoptions there were per week, and how many animals taken in every week. I don't remember the specifics of the mathematics, but it was brutal - this shelter killed a ton of animals.
But I can't blame the shelter. The real ShitStains are people who don't know how to spay/neuter pets.
I don't know anything about PETA's shelters - but I just want to scream at people to get their pets fixed.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)citood
(550 posts)The shelter I volunteered at had nearly perfect dogs available for adoption. They appeared to be pure bred, perfect health, etc.
Why did they kill the non pure bred, old, unhealthy, or otherwise unwanted?
Answer: The community only adopts 'x' number of pets a week, and resources to keep animals are limited.
Solutions?
- a) Magically get more resources
- b) Convince people to fucking spay/neuter their pets
Again, I don't know anything about PETA, but 'kill' shelters are the symptom of a problem - not necessarily the problem.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)It's very important you ignore the particular message and rather trivialize the author. Your bias demands that particular fallacy from you...
And most certainly, your self-esteem will demand you to rationalize it as something other than what it is. Looking forward to more of these fallacies... let 'em rip (but not close to an open flame I hope)!
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)Peta-loons can go fuck themselves one and all.
Response to Maraya1969 (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Truth321
(93 posts)Lots and lots of folks hunt. To try to paint them like murderers-well that's gonna go over well. That's gonna lose some elections.
Maraya1969
(22,494 posts)Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)... sufficiently acceptable to hate.
Trophy hunting, when done properly, is a necessary means to control and balance animal populations, and t foster land sustainability for ALL species. The "trophy" may indeed have large antlers, horns, or body weight, but these are indicators that the (usually) male species has reached his full mature potential, and is also nearing or has reached a non-reproductive condition. As such, he is contributing little to the overall genetic health of its own species, but is consuming much of the landscape, and threatening (in the case of predators) livestock or even humans which cannot readily escape predation. In any case, the old males (trophies) face a miserable death by starvation and disease, sooner than longer-lived females of the species.
This is why many U.S. states have instituted Quality Deer Management, antler restrictions or fishing "slots" which actually steer hunters TOWARD "trophy hunting," and not just the hunting of any male. To be sure, most areas also encourage, as necessary, the taking of female species who in a sense are ultimately responsible for reproduction that often exceeds the carrying capacity of the species' respective ranges.
Wildlife biologists understand this dynamic, even as some "animal lovers" prefer to grind away at another front in the culture wars, for notoriety and organizational profit. The head of PeTA is a classic example of a demagogue when it comes to animals. She disdains the idea of humans keeping pets (despite the ironic acronym PeTA), and her organization and employees have indeed carried out the killing of pets, taken under false pretenses from shelters.
Why do you use such a "source" as PeTA?
Maraya1969
(22,494 posts)kill all the meat that they need? Do you think they don't own guns and arrows?
Why aren't these TROPHY hunters killing gazelles instead of lions for the meat?
Is elephant meat such a necessity when they are plenty of other animals around to kill and eat? ESPECIALLY when elephants are near extinction??????
If there are lions around there are going to be plenty of other game around that the LIONS KILL AND EAT!
That is a fucking bullshit argument.
Don't tell me you didn't realize I posted this because of the 2 mini trumps and their desires to kill endangered animals!
That article says nothing about hunting deer in the US
citood
(550 posts)In actuality, what he did kill was gazelles, weird deer, and smaller stuff like that. He was well off, but only the super rich can afford to hunt lions or anything bigger.
Could the locals have killed their own gazelles? Yes. But they added a layer of profit by offering guided hunting tours for people like my boss. Typically, the guides' extended family would operate a butcher shop near the hunting cabin...and it seemed to be SOP to donate the meat to them (you certainly can't bring it home with you). So, they ended up with both the meat, and a fee for the privilege of shooting the animal.
Now, while I wasn't exactly a fan of my boss's excursions, I never once thought it made him a potential serial killer. A jerk? Yes. But this OP takes it to a whole new level - and I just can't agree with that.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)as a motivation for hunting animals. Mary Zeiss Stange points this out in her books about hunting.
Note also that the fastest growing demographic in the hunting community is women. And that is a good thing. Go Artemis!
citood
(550 posts)Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)otohara
(24,135 posts)I have never heard that about women, I don't know a single woman who owns a hunting rifle but I sure do hear the term "many say" a lot lately without any back up.
Many say killing certain animals will lead to their extinction...like the Humane Society International
http://www.humanesociety.org/issues/trophy_hunting/?referrer=https://www.google.com/
http://www.humanesociety.org/news/magazines/2016/01-02/trophy-hunting-devastation.html
Many say American's more than any other country pays to kill animals in other countries ...like National Geographic http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/02/160206-American-trophy-hunting-wildlife-conservation/
Why do you think America leads in the sport killing of beautiful animals?
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)are any indication, then there is ample reason to believe women are clearly the fastest growing demographic in hunting. Some estimates have women constituting approx. Over 11% of the hunting community, up from around 4% in the early 1990s. Before that latter date, most F&G departments didn't even collect data as to the sex of hunters. You can bet they do now.
Google the National Geographic article "More Women Give Hunting a Shot." The percentages are dated (probably over 15%), but a decent survey of the reasons for the increase. Personally, I think the rise in female hunters is part of the long-term trend of feminism whereby women are integrating into activities previously seen as "male.". Pick up an Outdoor Life or Field & Stream and there is always an article(s), photo(s) and advertisement geared toward women. Women hunters are part of the expanding presence of women in all walks of life, whether some like it or not. It is curious that you have failed to notice this social trend.
otohara
(24,135 posts)how repugnant.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I'd pretend 'trophy" is an invalid qualifier if it didn't paint my sacred cow in a positive manner as well, regardless of how accurate it in fact, is.
It's important we pretend the joy and entertainment we receive from killing is rational, and like you did, make many unsupported allegations while bringing into question the author rather than the premise of the original article in question.
Indeed, the scare quotes and dubious (and irrelevant) use of 'culture wars', often seen by rational adults as the leading indicator of a petulant and undisciplined child, certainly allows you even more credibility... at least, that will be the justification.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)ileus
(15,396 posts)I know many folks (20 or 30 personally) in my area that are trophy hunters only simply because of the opportunities offered in 4 West Virginia counties where there's only an archery only season for whitetails.
They hunt for 120+ sized deer only, year after year. They hit the field 6-20 times a season depending on what they catch on their cameras. Now I'm told they're the same as serial killers...that's silly horseshit.
This writer believes only republicans like to hunt? Wonder how many days this guy has spent in the field hunting?
This is just another "If you're not like me, you're X" article, I can't believe folks get paid to write BS like this.
Maraya1969
(22,494 posts)And I realize it is some sort of cultural thing in parts of the US to put dead animal parts on walls. I don't think that is what this article is referring to either.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)which is done when the trophy species is abundant, and often over-populated (compared to other areas who have outlawed hunting and cast the fate of animals to international poachers), and how the payments to safari outfits bring in much-needed jobs and cash infusions to area villages, far more direct payments to people than even photo safaris. Especially in South Africa, several big game species flourish where trophy hunting has long been a part of the management programs. Notably important is the assistance of indigenous populations who have a stake in protecting hunted species, instead of killing these same animals who might otherwise over populate, and destroy crops and livestock.
Please note this is not an either/or hunting practice. I have taken buck whitetail deer, eaten them, AND retained their antlers, some for use as "rattlers."
Maraya1969
(22,494 posts)to be controlled because they are taking over the land, like deer in parts of the US? There is just so damn many of them they are killed so keep their populations safe?
Difficult to understand when they are both near extinction.
This is from Live Science
"Sport hunting fees can help sustain animal conservation if the species being hunted aren't facing extraordinary threats, and if the government or other permit-granting organizations are transparent about how they spend the money on conservation, Garrigan said.
But all too often, the hunted animals are threatened, and many governments don't enforce sport-hunting regulations or offer transparency about how the money is spent, she said.
It does go on to tell how the white rhino has been successfully replenished, (somewhat) BUT that recovery is due mainly to the people who live there raising white rhinos in a sort of farm environment and then selling some of them to the government where they can be set to a place for hunters to pay to kill them. That way the farmers and the government makes money. But I think it needs to be stressed that they are first made plentiful by purposely breeding them in captivity
--------------------
Even though sports hunting may have helped the white rhino (a species still targeted by poachers), issuing permits for a threatened or endangered species is concerning, she said. For instance, lions, elephants and rhinos face myriad threats, including habitat loss, poaching, unsustainable sport hunting, disease and conflict with humans.
"For these species, we absolutely oppose any human activities that contribute to additional moralities, and that includes sport hunting," Garrigan said.
http://www.livescience.com/51698-cecil-lion-sport-hunting-controversy.html
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)This is especially the case in South Africa. But in Kenya, which banned regulated hunting some 40 years ago, elephant poaching is out of control, and the beast is threatened. Recently, I read where Botswana tried to follow suit, but reversed the hunting ban when corruption and poaching began to grow.
Where hunting is regulated properly, local peoples become auxillary defenders of the animals hunted; it is in their best interests.
Maraya1969
(22,494 posts)I can't take this fucking bullshit anymore. If you want to say that elephants in the tiny part of Africa that is South Africa are not endangered then you are not worth talking to.
Go get your fucking bow and pay a guide to set you up in front of one of these great animals of the earth so you can kill them. It sounds like regular sex just doesn't do it for you
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)...populace for the land's carrying capacity. Obviously, there is an on-going threat to them in Kenya.
I have posted in a civil manner, and I wish you would follow the same course of action.
Maraya1969
(22,494 posts)jack_krass
(1,009 posts)So predictably, there should be a name for it simmilar to Goodwins law. How about
"Digglers law"?
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)Maraya1969
(22,494 posts)frankieallen
(583 posts)Maraya1969
(22,494 posts)mainer
(12,026 posts)and then you say, "but he was so quiet and polite. I never imagined!"
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)REALLY stupid. Like we are all dumber for having read it, stupid...
I was hoping it had some actual scientific basis (even though p-values are like unicorns in psychological studies), but alas, just drivel and opinion. No sources, no citation of a scientific journal. Looks to be written by a 7th grader.
Maraya1969
(22,494 posts)Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)trophy hunters.
Which is the point of this stupid article.
Swing! and a MISS!
RedWedge
(618 posts)The rhetoric, however, is the same broad-brush PETA nonsense she's always produced.
Maraya1969
(22,494 posts)derangement disorder. I thought part of our job to get trump out of office asap is to make them as uncomfortable as possible with the truth of the trumps
And I am not talking about making shit up either.
But soooo many people are defensive here about anyone posting anything about hunting. I'm not talking about people who hunt dear. I'm talking about Eric trump killing a fucking elephant for fuck's sake!
RedWedge
(618 posts)headline on. It does sound like I'm digging at you. Using PETA rhetoric to make a point about the Trumps is difficult to do without insulting all hunters though.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)...and like much of tRump's blabberings, science as well.
RedWedge
(618 posts)Maraya1969
(22,494 posts)You got another insult your want to hurl? Have at it.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)the positive, even necessary, good which comes from trophy hunting. He even advocates the taking of "trophy does!"
I am sorry you see this through different lenses, but hunting and esp. the taking of older "trophy" males, is a necessary component in land and animal management. We are long past the laissez faire notion of letting animals fend for themselves in nature. We are part of nature.
Abu Pepe
(637 posts)Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)...and seem to have the traits of older predator animals who go after prey animals they do not normally kill, but are more easily dealt with. These would in some cases include human prey.
Abu Pepe
(637 posts)usually
sl8
(13,864 posts)Last edited Mon Dec 26, 2016, 09:08 PM - Edit history (2)
I don't mean to single you out, I've noticed that a lot of people post this way here, with no clear indication that the post is a quote of someone else's work and failing to credit the actual author.
In this particular case, I don't think there is an ulterior motive or anything, but wouldn't it have been just as easy to indicate that you were quoting someone else's work and giving the author credit by including the byline in the cut and paste, e.g.:
THE BLOG
The Pastime of Psychopaths
Ingrid Newkirk
President and co-founder, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA)
What kind of person enjoys taking another living beings life? It may seem improbable at first glance, but what if the same twisted psychology that drives a man to maim, stalk andan agonizingly painful 40 hours latershoot a lion to death might also drive a man to break into a house and plunge a knife into the people found inside? Such killers hide in plain sight. They are military officials and Boy Scout leaders. Gynecologists and dentists.
Serial killing and trophy hunting are terrifyingly similar. As wildlife researcher and author Gareth Patterson* points out, both types of killers often immerse themselves in violent imagery. Hunting magazines are designed to titillate hunters and help fuel violent fantasies of stalking and killing prey. They are full of pictures of hunters standing victoriously over animals they have slain, the obvious message: Kill somethingor, rather, someoneand you, too, can achieve greatness.
Similarly, serial killers often draw inspiration from bondage pornography. Dennis Rader was obsessed with violent images of men dominating women, and he used them to fuel his fantasies of tying up and killing women. Eventually, fantasy made way for real life. The same has been true for other killers, like Ted Bundy.
...
I realize that you included a link to the original article, which is good, but it seems that you could be more clear in indicating which part of the material that you post is somone else's work and giving credit to the original author.
Perhaps I'm out of line here, or more sensitive to misattribution than others, but I felt it worth bringing up.
Best regards.
Maraya1969
(22,494 posts)I did not credit it correctly. Usually when I see Huffington post I assume it is something I can trust and I did not even think about who said that trophy hunters were similar to serial killers because ..... they really seem to be similar. I'm sorry if that offends anyone but killing for the act of killing seems like a mental disease. If children do it the horrified parents get them straight into specialized therapy! What is the difference when an adult does it?
And after all the yelling at me I really don't want to remove that part. Some people here are such gun nuts that they will fight for every and any pro gun idea that might possibly, per chance, maybe in a million years be relevant. Other than that it adds nothing to the topic. The "eating the meat" defense in reference to African hunts is complete bullshit especially when talking about Lions, tiger and other big cats because these very animals eat other animals that could provide plenty of food for everyone around. The fact that these beautiful creatures are around means there is plenty of meat to be had. They don't need some billionaire from another country to there and kill a lion for the fucking meat!
And then someone tries to tell me that African elephants are not endangered in S. Africa. So I look all over the place and find that African elephants are scattered in different parts of Africa. There are not many in South Africa but what is the fucking point of saying that?
And I know what this thread frazzled me. Talking to either gun lovers or people who actually have shot and killed big endangered game is just like talking to a far right conservative! They have pat answers that don't really answer any questions and nothing you say will make them reconsider anything. They are bots. They are the low thought thinkers, (with respect to this subject) It is like having a conversation with Ted Cruz.
Response to Maraya1969 (Reply #53)
sl8 This message was self-deleted by its author.
HoneyBadger
(2,297 posts)Like farmers everywhere, they are ready to kill any local animals that threaten their farm. These days, trophy hunting operations build themselves around extracting $$$ from rich foreigners, spreading over a variety of locals, including the farmers and conservation operations, while killing the same animals that the farmers would have. It is far more nuanced than PETA makes it out to be. Trophy hunting benefits a great many.
Dark n Stormy Knight
(9,771 posts)kill for pleasure, which by the looks on their faces, the Trump boys do.