Gaslighting--used by Conway to defend Trump against Streep--is an abusive technique of narcissists

[mnhtnbb]

I posted an explanation of gaslighting in a couple of threads and someone suggested I make it a thread of its own.

So, it's important to identify and understand the technique of gaslighting.

Gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse used by narcissists in order to instill in their victim’s an extreme sense of anxiety and confusion to the point where they no longer trust their own memory, perception or judgment. The techniques used in “Gaslighting” by the narcissist are similar to those used in brainwashing, interrogation, and torture that have been used in psychological warfare by intelligence operative, law enforcement and other forces for decades.

The intention is to, in a systematic way, target the victim’s mental equilibrium, self confidence, and self esteem so that they are no longer able to function in an independent way. Gaslighting involves the abuser to frequently and systematically withhold factual information from the victim, and replacing it with false information. Because of it’s subtly, this cunning Machiavellian behaviour is a deeply insidious set of manipulations that is difficult for anybody to work out, and with time it finally undermines the mental stability of the victim. That is why it is such a dangerous form of abuse.

http://narcissisticbehavior.net/the-effects-of-gaslighting-in-narcissistic-victim-syndrome/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting

Conway has been on TV this morning denying that Trump mocked the reporter. He himself--not only in the NY Times interview, but also in his tweets-- denied it, too. Conway seems to think that we should "look in his heart". The way one determines what is "in someone's heart" is to observe what they do and what they say. Psychologists will tell you, that when you are dealing with abusers, narcissists, pathological liars, sociopaths, etc, that you need to "watch what they do, not what they say". In other words, watch the video of Trump using his body language to mock the reporter. That is the truth. Meryl Streep is a consummate actor--admired and respected by her peers and critics alike--and actors hone their craft by observing people. She knows what she saw. And so do the rest of us who are paying attention.

So, Conway denies the factual information (the video) and attempts to replace it with false information (what's in his heart). But, what's in his heart IS what he did on the video, which was to mock the reporter. See how the gaslighting definition fits?

[NRaleighLiberal]

1. I truly don't know how she can live with herself - how she can square

her behavior with what her children must see. Their dinner table chats must really be something - or do they just sit there and gaslight each other?

[mnhtnbb]

2. Given her job, I suspect there aren't many dinner table chats.

[NRaleighLiberal]

3. yup. Melted yet where you are? 9 when I woke up

road in front of our house is a skating rink (actually, a well used sledding hill!)

[mnhtnbb]

5. No. Our little dead end lane is all ice.

Our driveway is on a hill. We aren't going anywhere until it melts.

My husband is getting cabin fever!

[Hortensis]

28. We're on a hill too but got cheated of a good snow

this weekend. Good thing. We forgot to park a vehicle down by the road.

Thanks for the post, interesting. I imagine all cluster B diagnoses would use gaslighting since malevolent manipulation of others is such a treat to most, and of course all those conscienceless half-humans who qualify for diagnoses of sociopathy. It would be strange if Conway herself did not, wouldn't it? Same for an amazing number of the people in Trump's circle.

[Bettie]

6. She's working hard to turn her children into

the next generation of sociopathic abusers!

She wants them to be the best and most abusive sociopaths the world has ever seen!

You know, the exact opposite of what most moms want their kids to become.

[JPPaverage]

14. It scares me that she has children

It also baffles me. I mean, what kind of self respecting man would want to procreate with her?

[Bettie]

15. Someone as morally bankrupt

as she is.

[machoneman]

58. Don't forget that Kellyskank Spinway....

worked for Ted Cruz before jumping ship to Trump's campaign when she saw Teddie-boy losing to the Orange-haired Fuhrer. There are many words for turncoats like her where, for more $, she'd make whoopee with the Devil. 'Course that's assuming she hasn't already done the dark one on the side.

[Bettie]

64. Yeah, it is interesting to see what she said about Orange boy

while she was working for Ted.

Would be amusing if it weren't so horrifying.

[barbtries]

26. she must be a sociopath.

if she had a conscience she wouldn't do it.

[Amaryllis]

46. I think they gaslight themselves. I honestly think that Kellyanne and Donald believe

most, or even all, of their own lies. Or at least can't tell the difference between lies and truth. Questions like how can she live with herself don't apply, because that question assumes the ability to know the difference between reality and not reality. The inability to know the difference is one of the hallmarks of mental illness.

See:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017416657
A Psychiatrist speaks about Mr. Trump

and
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028446357
Propane Jane, tweeter-extraordinaire, is also a psychiatrist

There are most posts like this. Just search DU for "psychiatrists."

[JI7]

48. she has always been a piece of shit

[Freedomofspeech]

4. Look in his heart...

Good luck finding such a thing. He's like Cheney....will have to have a transplant to get one.

[mnhtnbb]

7. or maybe see The Wizard?

[Docreed2003]

19. Maybe he can get a brain while he's there in the Emerald City too

[NewJeffCT]

32. Not to mention his courage

I mean, this was a guy that was afraid of Megyn Kelly because she might have been on her period.

[mnhtnbb]

37. Serious replacement therapy required. Heart, brain, AND courage!

How about we just dump him and get someone with all the necessary requirements for the job?


I still--two months later--cannot believe so many people in this country were so stupid, or blind, or hateful, or
propagandized or whatever to not realize this man is TOTALLY unqualified for the job.

We are in for some very dark and dangerous times.

[mnhtnbb]

36. I dunno. Two fer?

[Equinox Moon]

8. Thanks for the tread!

It is important we learn about these abuser-victim dynamics. It helps us all understand what we are experiencing. Most of us will not fall victim, but many of his supporters will and have.

Grabberman has been doing it for, I would assume, his whole life. His children and colleges are victims and I would assume find it normal by now.

[mnhtnbb]

9. It was a good suggestion. Thanks!

[Equinox Moon]

10. I appreciate learning about it.

It is the oddest thing to hear him, or conway, say something did not happen, and in the next moment we can SEE and HEAR the video of said thing happening. Bizarre!

[mnhtnbb]

11. Exactly. Gaslighting is intended to make you feel crazy, like you are losing your mind.

Whether they (Trump and Conway) understand the psychological principles involved--and are doing it
deliberately--is hard to know. I suspect not. I don't think either one of them is that smart. I think
that lie and deny is more their game--it's worked over the years for Trump--and it certainly worked
as a campaign strategy. So they will keep doing it. On the other hand, I may not be giving them enough
credit and they may know exactly what they are doing and why because they want to keep us all off balance
and questioning our own judgment.

Neither one of them can be trusted.

[Equinox Moon]

12. And it vicitmizes a nation.

[Amaryllis]

47. It's called mental illness.

[Equinox Moon]

70. Yes, it is.

How tragic for America.

[rgbecker]

13. That Trump still tries to defend his actions rather than apolgize

tells you everything you need to know about him.

This behavior will lead to war or near war crisis. Some stupid action or remark will have to be defended as he is unable to adjust his mind around the idea that he may be wrong. Will his cronies take him aside and wake him up to reality? All indications are his cronies are of the same mindset and the nation will follow Trump down the rabbit hole to destruction.

Pray for the Rapture and soon.

[Equinox Moon]

17. Or, leaders around the world realize he has mental instability

and he will be classified like North Korea's leader.

[rgbecker]

21. Oh Boy, mass starvation!

[mnhtnbb]

33. There are probably still a few patriotic Republicans left

and by that I mean politicians who--when push comes to shove--will put country above party.

I expect they will see to it that Trump is removed from office--sooner rather than later--and that we will
then need to start dealing with either Pence or Ryan. They may not take the entire world down the rabbit hole
to destruction, but will certainly deal a serious blow to the USA. Worse than GWB? Who knows? But I have
a bet with my husband that Trump will not be in office by the end of Dec 2017.

[LiberalLovinLug]

16. Faux News, right wing hate radio, and a tepid MSM on other networks...

..gaslighted the whole nation with disinformation for decades now. Much of the nation, especially in middle America, are brainwashed and confused about what is truth and what isn't.

[colorado_ufo]

18. Or, "These aren't the droids that you're looking for!"

"Move along, move along!"

[longship]

20. Read your in-thread post. Glad to see this OP.

We've been seeing a few gaslighting posts here for months. It's about time we had a serious discussion about it.

The origin likely comes from the 1944 Charles Boyer, Ingrid Bergman film of the same name, Gaslight.

Here's the trailer:

Apparently the entire film may be available on YouTube:

(Did not check it.)

[mnhtnbb]

34. Yes. The movie provided the origin of the term "gaslighting".

[Jim Beard]

39. I watched "Gas Light" last year because Click & Clack, the Tappit Brothers.....

on NPR's "Car Talk" recommended it.

[BumRushDaShow]

43. The scene near the end where she exposes him

[BSdetect]

22. Don't you want to shove a big cream pie in their faces when they lie?

Waste of pies I suppose.

[Texin]

25. No. I want to put a burlap bag over their heads,

take the business end of a baseball bat upside their thick, empty skulls then take them out to the nearest stock pond and drown the bastards.

Thugs should be treated like the thugs they are, and every fucking one of these cretins is a damn thug of the first magnitude. Every one of them from the orange mobster bootlicker-elect to Ryan, to the ugliest man on Earth, Mitch McConnell on down to the boney assed, gaunt, brittle Conway bitch needs to be taken out and summarily executed.

[Amaryllis]

23. Excellent article by Lauren Duca of Teen Vogue: "Donald Trump is Gaslighting America"

Donald Trump Is Gaslighting America
"In this scorched-earth op-ed, Lauren Duca takes on Trump's systematic attempts to destabilize the truth and weaken the foundation of American freedom."

http://www.teenvogue.com/story/donald-trump-is-gaslighting-america

[NewJeffCT]

38. definitely outstanding

amazing that Teen Vogue is doing a better job than CNN, Fox, and most of the mainstream media.

[Amaryllis]

44. I have to say it totally changed my perception of Teen Vogue. Lauren Duca is brilliantly perceptive.

And courageous.

[mnhtnbb]

40. Excellent article.

Thanks for posting.

[lark]

24. What's in his heart is pure evil.

And it shows in everything he does and in most of his tweets as well. When he's acting nice is when he's lying and just "trying" to seem like a normal person, which he is NOT.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

31. Yep. When he's nice, he's acting....sociopaths and narcissists are charming,

Because that's how they set up their next mark.

A pic that really tells the story is the one of the tangerine turd with mitt rMoney. Mitt looks like he just got busted getting pleasured by twitler.

[Akamai]

27. I have heard her on the progressive Thom Hartmann show for years -- He debates conservatives

regularly. She has been opposed to equal pay, to Obamacare, women's health issues, doing something about climate change, etc.

I am sure she surrounds herself only with people who believe the same things she does.

The way she talks reminds me of a device that might help people barrel on with their nonsense -- that is, if there were hearing aides that would emit white noise when one speaks -- so one could not hear what the other person is saying and so allowing a person to continue with what one is saying and the heck with allowing oneself to be interrupted, that is like Kelli Ann Conway's style of speaking to others.

Sure reminds me of Colbert's famous comedy presentation in front of Dubya -- "He will believe on Wednesday the thing that he believed on Monday no matter what happened on Tuesday!" She is really a wonder to behold and to listen to! Amazing!

[Historic NY]

29. Gaslight presidency.........

time to put out the lamp, by calling it out every time.

[mnhtnbb]

35. Excellent idea.

[Solly Mack]

30. K&R

Excellent post!

[malaise]

41. Excellent

Rec

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

42. The RW has perfected propaganda techniques and this

gaslighting is such a perfect and predictable tool for them. We must all fight back. Let's post far and wide the actual audio and video showing what they try to deny.

Here's my contribution: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028450031

[Generator]

45. If I cared about you and you thought

I was mocking your disabled son WHEN I wasn't-what would I do? I would say I'm sorry. That is what El Scumbag del Trumpo is incapable of. Other people have feelings and realities. IF you care-you show them that-otherwise all you are saying is fuck you. Trump and Conway say I fuck you every single day to everyone.

[babylonsister]

49. This and I am so tired of it,

but I am not losing my anger. I think it increases daily.

[Blue Owl]

50. Don't light a match near those assholes

n/t

[Zambero]

51. Heart of Stone

Unlike the one played against the band's wishes, this is the Stones song that would have been most appropriate at Trump rallies.

[Cha]

52. Thanks for making this an OP... damn "gaslighting" just seems to fit.

[mnhtnbb]

54. It does fit. The aim of the gaslighter is to make the target lose confidence

in her own perceptions, judgment, memory and to make the target dependent upon
the gaslighter.

The Republicans want us all controlled by their determination and view of the world. We--as Dems--really seem to
be entering a period of epic struggle between the rights of self-determination or submission to the oligarchs. I hate
to sound so dramatic and paranoid, but I think that's one of the reasons so many of us have been stunned by
the results of the November election and are having physical symptoms of high anxiety: inability to sleep, to focus,
general malaise...(with apologies to malaise!). We recognize what's at stake and feel as though a tsunami is about
to devastate our political world.

I woke up thinking about it this morning. We are all going to have to be on high alert for these abusive techniques
and be ready to call out the lies as they come--and they are going to come hard and fast because Trump is a pathological
liar. I put up a post about that definition:

A pathological liar lies compulsively and impulsively, almost without thinking about the consequences of his action. He lies regularly on a spontaneous basis even if he gains no benefit from it, or even if he traps himself into it. A pathological liar cannot control his impulse to lie and it is usually a self-defeating trait.

http://www.newhealthguide.org/Pathological-Liar.html


and the post itself http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=2677471

in response to an OP that was about Politico finding recently that 96% of Trump's statements are, to some degree, false. It means you can't trust
a damn thing that comes out of his mouth.

It's no wonder we're all so anxious.

[Cha]

56. fox screws with your brain certainly succeeded.

the one thing true that trump said that I can think of is.. he finds his daughter "hot" or something like that.

I really don't dwell on it.. but it did just pop into my head.

I stopped watching all m$m news/newspapers etc in Nov 2002.. that's how much I think of it.

Thanks for the link..

Here's the NY Times excerpt:

“We are going to have an unbelievable, perhaps record-setting turnout for the inauguration, and there will be plenty of movie and entertainment stars,” Mr. Trump said. “All the dress shops are sold out in Washington. It’s hard to find a great dress for this inauguration.”

I saw the OP that reported there were the lowest number of inaugural gowns sold this year than ever before.

I thought it was just letting us know.. didn't know trumplethinskin had tweeted the opposite. lol

[Chimichurri]

53. gaslighting works if you allow it to. Our press allows him

To get away with this bullshit

[mnhtnbb]

55. That's why it is important for all of us to be aware of the technique

and do what we can to spread awareness of it.

Meryl Streep was really brilliant. Just brilliant. By doing what she did Sunday night, look at the discussion--in the media--that has happened.
They have actually been showing the tape of Trump mocking the reporter and giving Conway the floor to look a fool denying it. Streep got
the predictable response from thin skin Trump--tweets denying the mocking--and there you have both Trump and Conway shown up as liars.
And when does this occur? Right after the Wall Street Journal says it won't call out Trump lies, because that is subjective.

Bullshit! Meryl Streep was brilliant. Just brilliant. And that's what we all have to do: take advantage of every opportunity with our local media
to call attention to the lies.

[melman]

57. The definition doesn't fit

This term has become popular and is overused. She's just simply lying.

[mnhtnbb]

60. You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

I think it's important to understand the elements and pathology involved in the technique.

Are Trump and Conway just typical serial Republican liars and deniers?

I don't think so. I think it's more than likely that Trump has narcissistic personality disorder and that he is also a pathological
liar. Whether he and Conway get together to hatch a plan designed to make us all crazy and question our judgment because
reality doesn't jibe with their lies...well...who knows? I wouldn't put it past them. Does that make me paranoid? Maybe.
Maybe not.

I do not think Conway is "simply lying". I think there is a greater design, scheme, plan--or whatever you want to call it-- at the back of the lies, which is similar
to the point of Fox News and that is to generate an alternate reality which favors Republicans and their desire to achieve
a society where they are in control and the rest of us are subject to that control.

[melman]

65. I don't know

I just see her doing the same thing she was doing for years as a cable TV 'Republican Strategist'. Just get on there and make up shit, lie and deny. Same tactics just her name and position have changed.

[mnhtnbb]

66. I don't watch the cable news shows so I really have limited history

of seeing her. I have seen her a couple of times on Bill Maher. I was not impressed.

There is a Machiavellian element to the serial Republican lying/denying, which I think may have
gotten lost in the overexposure because these people are out everywhere with their "talking points".
They say whatever they need to say--regardless of the truth--because their greater goal is to achieve
power and control. I imagine they are all quite comfortable with passing off a few lies in the service
of achieving their goal: Republican control. The problem is that the more often one lies, the easier it
becomes until it gets to the point of this instance. There is the video--for everyone to see--and Trump
and Conway are still lying through their teeth in denial of the obvious!

There is some pathology involved at this point, in my opinion.

[rpape]

72. Elite playbook

Hold a shiny object in one hand and pick your pocket with the other.
The "news" cycle regurgitating social media debates about Meryl Streep and the poor "Hidden fences" girl are the shiny objects, the hearings on cabinet nominees represents the pick pocketing this week.

Last week, the Russian hacking was bright and shiny, the reports about Crosscheck silencing the voice of 1 million voters was the pick pocketing.

STOP contributing to the shiny objects. Focus on the pick pocketing.

[Diclotican]

59. mnhtnbb

mnhtnbb


And the worst is - Even with ample evidences about his bullying and arrogance, and his actions where he clearly treat the reporter with all the disrespect and bullying he can give on scene. They REFUSE to admit they was wrong - it is amazing, even if a quick search on youtube give ample evidence about what he did under the primaries, of bullying of reporters, or for that matter everyone else with handicaps - they flat out refuse, and tell it is a lie...

Gasslightning, another of this american English words I am not used to - but the name fits well

Diclotican

[Stellar]

61. What's in his heart...If you can assume that he has a heart.

When I heard Conway say that "it's what's in his heart", my mind goes straight to the part of his anatomy where he would keep his heart. And I think that he keeps it in a safe place, and not in his chest. Perhaps he sits on it.

If he had a heart, you couldn't tell by the people he's put in his cabinet and now trying to shove through while everyone's mind is on Obama's speech tonight with little room to spare.

Using a favorite saying from the RepublicOn party...He wants to shove his cabinet down our throats with NO vetting allowed.

[TNNurse]

62. There are few things that I have in common with Meryl Streep

but the most important thing is that neither she nor I will be convinced of Trump in a positive light. He is not fooling me or many other people. Kellyanne is not going to get anywhere either.

The one person I keep wanting to see from campaign time is the Rev. Faith Green-Timmons of Detroit. He came to speak at her church about water issues and he started maligning Hillary. The good reverend made him cower like a puppy, she politely but firmly shut him down. The whole country needs her.

[eShirl]

63. We're supposed to be psychic now!

lemme get the Wee Gee Board and see what Trump's heart says about that

[bullwinkle428]

67. Having been through a divorce, I am ALL TOO FAMILIAR with this tactic,

and I was on the receiving end of it for years.

[Mc Mike]

68. "Dig, it's like Gaslight" -- Lenny Bruce Nt

[yardwork]

69. Thanks for this excellent post.

We are seeing these techniques used across the internet to confuse half the U.S. population.

[Initech]

71. Very interesting. I always wonder what makes a narcissist tick.