Give it a break, Bernie.

[DanTex]

The most important thing about the new DNC is bringing the party together. Whoever won, there was going to be a chunk of the party that was disappointed. This is why I personally was hoping neither Perez nor Ellison would win, even though I like both of them a lot. Simply so that it wouldn't be perceived as a victory for one wing of the party over another.

Both Perez and Ellison understood this, which is why they conducted the campaign in the respectful way they did, and which is why the very first thing they did after the election was talk about party unity.

And then we have Bernie -- who is already a somewhat divisive figure -- right off the bat, lecturing Perez about how he thinks the DNC should be run. This is not helpful.

Not all Democrats and progressives are Berniecrats. In fact, most aren't. There's not one part of the party that is more important than any other. And the most important thing of all is unity. Bernie needs to take a cue from Ellison here.

[aikoaiko]

1. Unless you are for the same old, same old, what's the problem?

Are you really that dedicated to the status quo, Dan?

[DanTex]

2. If you don't understand that that was a shot at Perez's ties to Clinton and Obama,

then I can't help you.

[aikoaiko]

5. I think Bernie's been saying similar things about the party for a long time.

So no, I don't think this was about Perez's ties to HRC and Obama.

[BainsBane]

8. It was because Ellison was his pick

but didn't win. I don't think it's more complicated than that.

[DanTex]

12. You think he would have made the same comment at Keith Ellison? Not a chance.

[aikoaiko]

17. No, but then again Ellison is different from Perez.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/tom-perez-isnt-as-liberal-as-keith-ellison-but-hes-still-pretty-progressive/

And both Perez and Ellison are well to the left of center on the spectrum of beliefs within the Democratic Party, though Ellison’s views are more deeply left. In fact, he’s more liberal than 90 percent of House Democrats, according to FiveThirtyEight ideological ratings that look at congressional voting records, donors and public statements. Ellison scores a -57 in our ratings (-100 is most liberal; +100 is most conservative). The average Democratic member of the House in the 114th Congress (2015-16) had a congressional record voting score of -40. Perez never served in Congress, but he did make an abbreviated run for attorney general of Maryland and has made public statements on political issues. Using these, we estimated his average score at -45, which is not as liberal as Ellison’s but indicates that he may be further to the left than the average Democratic member of the House.

[DanTex]

21. Right. So his guy didn't win, and instead of coming out for unity, he's

taking a shot at the guy who did win.

The equivalent would be if Ellison won and Hillary came out with a tweet telling him not to take the party too far left.

[aikoaiko]

25. Ok. And?

[DanTex]

26. And he needs to give it a break, because it's harmful to party unity. Like I said in the OP.

[aikoaiko]

35. I think it's helpful to those who are more marginalized in the party...

Party unity will not happen through suppression.

[BainsBane]

46. the marginalized are the poor and oppressed, people of color

those people kept from voting, targeted with hate crimes. Those are precisely the people whose rights Perez is fighting to restore. The "marginalized" are not the people who happened to come out 35 votes short in an intra-party election. Give me a fucking break.

[Kentonio]

71. Oh for goodness sake

They said "marginalized in the party", not in society.

[mcar]

151. +1000!

[NastyRiffraff]

141. "Suppression"? Oh for chrissakes

Nobody is being "suppressed," and the evidence is that Bernie is still scolding and wagging that (virtual) finger. He gets to say what he wants, but when he gets pushback on it, that's not suppression. I doubt if he'll STFU, ever, unfortunately.

[aikoaiko]

144. When the reaction is STFU, yeah, that's trying to suppress.

[NastyRiffraff]

149. I can't see Sanders shutting up

because I said so. I'm not "trying to suppress" poor ol' Bernie because I know he'll continue flapping his mouth even though I said 'STFU" NOTHING will close that big mouth and still that pointing finger.

[aikoaiko]

154. I know. He's so inconvenient.

[NastyRiffraff]

158. He's not inconvenient

He's getting to be a bloody bore.

[LuvLoogie]

169. Did Bernie join the party!?

I thought the Democratic party let him run WITHOUT joining the party. So if he is not IN the party, how is he being suppressed WITHIN the party?

[Gothmog]

247. I was also wondering about this

[DownriverDem]

295. Bernie did join

Bernie did join the Dem Party, but quit when he lost. I seriously have a problem with that.

[Gothmog]

300. I also have an issue with this

[UT_democrat]

194. Exactly!

I've been a democrat for 30 years through thick and thin. I whole heartedly supported Sanders and his message. I voted for Hillary on Election Day but the Progressive message Sanders spoke of didn't die because he lost. Like it or not he is still a voice for progressives who are members of the Dem party. Personally, I want him to continue being outspoken and making sure progressive views play an important part in this party.

I had hoped the constant sniping at and blaming of Sanders would fade as we tried to move forward but from where I'm standing the continued vitriol by some towards Sanders is what's helping keep the party fractured. We have enough enemies on the right.

[putitinD]

237. +1

[cstanleytech]

265. "I had hoped the constant sniping at and blaming of Sanders would fade" It will in time but

it wont be any time soon because the fact is that by dragging his concesion out it did have a negative impact on her and it carried over to the election against Trump.
Granted it wasnt anywhere near as big as what Comey did when he came in to assist Trump but it was still felt and then to top it off after the election he told the party whos nomination he had tried to win in essence to "fuck off" about joining and then to rub salt into the wound he offers his opinion on what the party needs to do so ya that is kind of gonna piss some people off.
It will fade though and in time people will if not forgive atleast forget it but it wont be any time soon.

[Doremus]

309. +1000

Some need to make up their mind about whether they really want liberals in their 'big tent' of moderates.

[The Wielding Truth]

327. Excellent post, UT_democrat. I am totally in sink with you. Democrats are progressive and also

believe in hard fought established law. Bernie is fighting for the 99% cause. We should all be with him. And we should look to the leadership of Perez, who I have heard has been a very good organizer and strong Progressive.

[hrmjustin]

206. Suppression? What suppression efforts do you see?

[Jakes Progress]

273. Party unity will happen through solidarity.

Not by some wanting to take their ball and go home.

Hell. Bernie isn't even a member of the party. We let him play, but he wants to take our ball and go home. This shit gave us trump. If people who claim to be progressives don't understand how unions work, how solidarity works, then we will eventually have 9 scalias on the SC.

[JCanete]

333. well lets see if this has all been harmful. Somebody just posted that Booker and Sanders and others

are about to unveil a collaborated bill to allow for prescription drug shopping. I'd say there's some value in making these things public matters.

[calimary]

76. Yep.

I thought it was wonderful and admirable that Perez turned around and embraced Keith Ellison the way he did. It was a VERY mighty gesture toward party unity. A shame that Bernie couldn't have joined in that. Who was the bigger man here? I'm wondering whether that would have happened if the outcome were reversed.


We won't get ANYWHERE if we remain divided.

[Stellar]

188. As far as I'm concerned the party is divided and Perez works for...

the same old party. Just because Perez gave Ellison props doesn't mean a damned thing, and yes, I'm from Bernie Sanders side as well as MoveOn.org.

When Bernie was pushed out of the election, I did decide to "vote blue no matter who".

I'm tired of people telling me to shut the f**k up and do what I'm told for unity sake. It may make some of you feel better but I'm fed up with it.

[UT_democrat]

196. With you

It's getting tiresome imo

[Stellar]

197. And you...

no better unfortunately.

[calimary]

199. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I'm a Hillary supporter and I thoroughly disagree that Bernie was "pushed out of the election." Respectfully, the numbers didn't lie.

[LiberalFighter]

328. I agree that Bernie wasn't pushed out.

His ego and mouth pushed him out.

[Jakes Progress]

274. So when someone loses

why do you think they should be put in charge? Ellison and Perez understand how important this is. Why don't you?

[forjusticethunders]

287. Bernie LOST. Deal with it. He wasn't cheated or pushed out, HE LOST.

Why is that so hard for you to accept?

[Plucketeer]

316. Because my brains

didn't come out of a copy machine.

[cannabis_flower]

60. Really?

Is -45 that much different than -40? "which is not as liberal as Ellison’s but indicates that he may be further to the left than the average Democratic member of the House. Actually sounds like a good compromise and appointing Ellison as his Deputy seems good.

[choie]

29. That is because Ellison is not for continuing the

DNC's constant courting of corporate donors and pushing center right policies...

[DanTex]

34. That is exactly the kind of intra-party sniping that both Ellison and Perez

are trying to avoid.

[calimary]

65. Yep.

[LiberalLovinLug]

165. So its intra-party sniping that is the real problem

and not "DNC's constant courting of corporate donors and pushing center right policies".

got it.

[phylny]

218. I do wish the Democrats and Independents would save their complaining and sniping

for private moments and present a united front publicly.

[choie]

225. that's right...

trying to improve the party is not intra-party sniping. It's trying to improve the party.

[Plucketeer]

314. YEAH!

We need to be more like the GOP! They love all their warts - no matter what! Just stop and think how objective they're being about their new leader!

[Gothmog]

248. Yep

[Capn Sunshine]

173. which is interesting BECAUSE HE IS NOT A DEMOCRAT

He's an independent who caucuses with us, and we like his ideas so much we obliged him and voted to let him use the party machinery.

That proved to be a poor decision.

[aikoaiko]

174. I don't think it proved to be a poor decision.

We're really lucky Bernie decide to go third-party.

It was a win-win. Bernie received more media and resources from running as Democrat and he committed to the party nominee no matter who it was.

[dae]

217. Agree 100% aikoaiko.

[Plucketeer]

315. Yes!

that's right! We let him play our slot machine - we just neglected to tell him what odd's it offered.

[OilemFirchen]

4. Is your avatar a brain scan?

Just curious.

[pnwmom]

166. The condescension. Perez didn't need the mini-lecture. nt

[aikoaiko]

178. I don't know if he needed it or not.

I don't see how it hurts unless Perez is for the status-quo and not making changes.

[pnwmom]

223. If you knew anything about Perez you'd know he doesn't need it.

He is a very strong progressive with a background in labor and civil rights.

What Bernie said to him was condescending and insulting. Perez didn't need the lecture.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/who-is-tom-perez-dnc-chairman/

Perez, 55, left the Obama administration last month after serving as labor secretary since July 2013. In that job, he helped push for new overtime rules to ensure workers get overtime pay, extended overtime protections for home care workers and extended minimum wage protections.

He also helped establish worker safety rules, and under his leadership the department provided paid sick leave and ensured employment protections for federal contractor employees, according to his biography on the department’s website.

SNIP

His parents were immigrants from the Dominican Republic. His dad died when Perez was only 12 years old, according to his biography on his campaign website, and he later put himself through college by working on the back of a garbage truck.

He started his career as a civil rights attorney at the Department of Justice and later served as special counselor to Sen. Ted Kennedy, D-Massachusetts. Under Attorney General Janet Reno, Perez served as deputy assistant attorney general for civil rights, and toward the end of the Clinton administration, he was the head of the Office of Civil Rights at the Department of Health and Human Services.

Before President Obama nominated Perez to his Cabinet, succeeding Labor Secretary Hilda Solis, he returned to the Justice Department in 2009 to serve as assistant attorney general for civil rights.

[ymetca]

313. Thanks to Perez

I got a $5,000 a year increase in my salary for all the unpaid overtime I worked ... which lasted for one paycheck. Then I was let go, my job off-shored. I got some severance, thankfully. But the pay increase was not included. Lovely.

Let's keep rolling that rock up that steep, steep incline, Democrats!

Sigh...

[WhiteTara]

258. A couple of days ago, Bernie crats voted out our

long time chair. During the tenure of the chair, our county has remained blue. Our elected officials are all democrats and half of our quorum court are democrats, and this is in a very red state. That wasn't good enough for the Bernie crats. They elected a man who admitted in his nomination speech that he didn't have a clue what the job entailed, if he had the qualifications to do the job that he didn't know what was and that he didn't have any Party experience at all.

I have a feeling that this county will turn red next election because the Cons smell blood in the water and confusion on the shore.

So there will be no status quo in our county. Heck of a Job, Bernie crats, Heck of a job.

[Lil Missy]

279. Bernie lost. End of story. Better luck next time; time to move on. n/t

[aikoaiko]

284. Bernie lost the primary, but he is now in Democratic Senate Leadership

He moved on. Will others?

[Lil Missy]

305. Can you follow the OP and/or your own post that I responded to?

This wasn't the Primary this time.

[aikoaiko]

310. When you said he lost I thought you meant the primary? What are you referring to?

[Lil Missy]

321. The OP is about the DNC vote between Ellison and Perez. Bernie's choice, Ellison, lost.

Then See paragraph 3 of the OP.

That's what I was referring to. However, in hindsight I can see that my initial post to yours was not clear. My apologies for my part in this misunderstanding.

[bullsnarfle]

296. Gee. So did Hillary. (n/t)

[appal_jack]

288. The saga continues, doesn't it?

Last edited Mon Feb 27, 2017, 12:11 PM - Edit history (1)

Note the seasonal progression of the 4 panels through 2016. We really saw those exact conversations happen here at DU through the summer, fall, and then winter of our discontent at the end of 2016. Why are so many DU'ers determined to sketch the fifth panel of this cartoon for 2017? Bernie was the only reason there was any excitement in the Primary at all. He catalyzed a huge base of Democrats that the DNC then turned its back on. Bad call then, bad call now.

-app

[Scruffy1]

306. My thoughts exactly.

Bernie not perfect, nor is anyone else. I just don't get why you would want to put a muzzle on him. He's not going to give up his free speech and just like anyone else you can take or leave his advise. I do know that without a progressive agenda the Democratic Party will die. It's already on life support and has had the biggest ass kicking in history. Time to stop looking for villains and look in the mirror. Bernie did not cost us the election.

[jehop61]

3. Thought Bernie

went back to being independent. Why is he telling Democrats what to do? Loves being the center of attention, methinks

[aikoaiko]

7. He's an invited member of the Democratic Leadership Team.

It's part of his job.

[BainsBane]

14. We had two tweets yesterday from public officials critical of the DNC election

neither of which came from any of the rest of the Democratic leadership.

[aikoaiko]

37. Thank goodness for Bernie. He speaks for some in the party.

[BainsBane]

39. It's nice you're pleased with so little

because that text doesn't say anything other than express his frustration with the party and disappointment in the outcome of the election. All of the DNC candidates said far more about the future direction of the party. NONE advocated "the same old."

[unitedwethrive]

88. Exactly. He seems to enjoy the division.

[Me.]

40. Some, But Not All

Not even a majority

[George II]

70. Yesterday he certainly didn't speak for the two new leaders, including HIS choice for chairman.

[aikoaiko]

146. He congratulated Tom Perez and spoke for change.

Last edited Sun Feb 26, 2017, 07:03 PM - Edit history (1)

That's not exactly an anti-Perez rant.

[George II]

155. He congratulated him and immediately went into lecture mode, telling him how to do his job.

[calimary]

79. Good point.

[BainsBane]

6. Ellison and Perez gave us a wonderful demonstration of unity

I'm optimistic the two will work well together to unite the party.

[IndianaDave]

36. I would have been happy with either one!

So it was really impressive to see Perez and Ellison choose unity over petulance and division. I own a bird, and our party currently reminds me of my bird. The fact is, it takes two wings to fly. I think we're going to be just fine, and I'm proud that these two gentlemen are behaving like thoughtful adults - willing to dialog and work together for progressive values. Seeing and hearing both of them was uplifting. I sincerely believe that - in this national crisis, precipitated by Trump and the berserk Republican Congress - we need to let go of any rigid attitudes and recognize that, regardless of our minor differences, our strength lies in embracing one another for the common good.

[calimary]

89. Welcome to DU, IndianaDave!

What a great point you make! MANY good points you make. "Choosing unity over petulance and division." "It takes two wings to fly." And "we need to let go of any rigid attitudes and recognize that, regardless of our minor differences, our strength lies in embracing one another for the common good."

I was very impressed by Perez reaching out to embrace Ellison and fold him in at the top. I kept waiting to see a smile appear on Keith Ellison's face. It didn't come and didn't come and didn't come - but then Perez embraced him and it finally arrived. That was telling, btw, how long Ellison kept his frown on.

[unitedwethrive]

9. Couldn't agree more...while some of Bernie's ideas are admirable...

the majority of Dems feel that his agenda is too far left to win general elections. He needs to recognize how much the division he has nurtured has hurt the liberal side, and either try to mend ties or push his agenda under a different party banner.

[milestogo]

22. Do you have actual evidence for your claim of the 'majority'?

[bravenak]

28. Him not winning enough of us?

[Gothmog]

325. A decent number of Sanders delegates were from undemocratic caucuses

I really hope that the DNC does away with caucuses. Texas used to have the Texas two step and went to a primary system only this cycle. It was an improvement

[bravenak]

336. Caucuses suck.

We had one and the other side was screaming and acting like a bunch of fools.

[Gothmog]

338. We used to have the Texas two step here which was a combo of caucus and primary

I was happy when Texas got rid of the caucus part of the Texas two step.

[Kentonio]

74. A different party banner?

Do you have some strange desire to see this party ripped in two?

[unitedwethrive]

83. Not at all, but he was clearly never a Democrat, and he might be better served by

admitting that and pushing for his agenda through another route.

[Kentonio]

87. He won the support of 45% of the party.

The logical extension of what you're suggesting would be that another party would better represent those people. That's dangerous territory.

[unitedwethrive]

92. Maybe it's what is needed. Why is that dangerous?

With the way repugs manipulate the system when they are in charge, it is very unlikely that the Dems will ever get broad power the way things are heading. Some other plan has to start to take shape.

[Kentonio]

99. Why?

You're talking about handing the GOP the majority at a national level permanently basically. That's a horrible idea.

[unitedwethrive]

128. He revealed a big divide it the Democratic Party, why not have the two factions present themselves

as different parties, and have the electorate make an educated choice between the two? It's exactly what our founders envisioned. It's pure democracy. Yes, progressives will likely take several election cycles to rebuild, but that seems to be in the works now anyway...particularly with foreign interest in our elections that will not be adequately investigated.

[Kentonio]

138. Because the system isn't designed to handle more than two parties

The GOP would basically have a free pass to remake the country in their own twisted image. It would be horrific.

[Demsrule86]

301. No he did not...he lost by millions of votes...the primary is over and unless

Bernie has decided to become on of us...he should not make any suggestions to Democrats...I think what he is doing is divisive and wrong...I intend to ignore him...as we must unite...any division should be ignored.

[Kentonio]

307. You're not ignoring 'him', you're ignoring many millions of fellow Democrats.

You don't get to 'unite' by dismissing the concerns of half the party.

[calimary]

78. Indeed.

[SammyWinstonJack]

139. ..

[bekkilyn]

167. Or maybe conservative Dems should just go ahead and join the Republican party

Why is it always up to progressives to compromise and appease the conservatives in the name of unity? The Democratic party needs to actually stand FOR something other than &quot barely) not Republican". If Bernie has nurtured division, it's because he's inspired so many people to get actively involved and it's bothered people who don't want to rock the boat or admit that there has been serious problems within the Democratic party. Democrats haven't been losing practically every federal and local election, including most governors, because of Bernie.

Bernie is absolutely right. Same old, same old is not going to work. Perhaps there needs to be more of this type of "division" in order to effect positive change, and I suppose that if it eventually has to happen outside of the Democratic party, then it will. It would be nice if it didn't have to though as it would probably mean the end of the Democratic party. Very few are inspired by a party that doesn't excite them in any relevant way.

[LiberalLovinLug]

182. Yet here we thought Trump's ideas were too far right to win general elections.

Its time Democrats grew a pair and started changing their defeatist attitudes. Having a medical system that every other western democracy enjoys where everyone is covered for less cost is NOT "too far left". A $15 per hour wage is not "too far left". Not allowing financial institutions to be so large and monopolized and deregulated they can do whatever they want because they know no one would dare break them up is not "too far left".

"Admirable ideas" are what this country needs more of. Ideas have to be presented, and spoken about, and in the public discourse. Republicans have known how if you repeat something often enough it becomes reality, even deplorable ideas. Democrats are afraid to simply repeat admirable ideas often and present them as ideas that they have 100% confidence will work.
I don't blame Bernie for getting incredibly frustrated at Democrats for wimping out time and time again when they could be leaders instead of simply being satisfied by the status quo and acting shocked by the alt-right.

[Cha]

10. Yeah, it would have been nice if he took a cue from

Keith Ellison but noooooooo.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

11. Not pointing fingers , but I wish we could take a break from this intramural fighting.

We are in a cold war with the Deplorables. This intramural fighting is a huge distraction. Engaging in it is a form of narcissism.

[Orrex]

13. I believe that the OP is taking issue with an Independent

Therefore it's not intramural.

Unless Sanders has decided that it would serve his convenience to identify briefly as a Democrat again...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16. He and his followers are or should be allies in the war against Deplorabilism.

[Blue_true]

23. We should never consider Stein style voters allies.

We need to get about building a party that does not want or need them. Trump offers an enormous opportunity for Democrats to build a party that does not need fringe, single issue voters, Trump and republican officials that are bending over for him and Putin, will drive sane moderates away from voting republican, there are far more of those people than there are Stein types. I really think rational Bernie supporters will stay with Democrats as long as they get a real voice in the party direction and help chose candidates, I really think that is what Bernie was indicating in his tweets.

[Orrex]

33. I agree

Do you similarly exhort his followers to join ranks with Democrats? I recall more than a few of them being quite explicit in their rejection of Clinton in the Primaries and the General, for instance...

[Saviolo]

140. Exactly this

Unity doesn't mean that everyone has to agree 100% all the time. There are going to be voices (sometimes very loud voices) in your camp that will be trying to drive change within your camp. Bernie's trying very hard to drag that Overton Window back to the left after the GOP have successfully dragged it so far to the right that it's practically incomprehensible.

Hell, even the IMF has pulled back from austerity as sound monetary policy, but over the next four years we're going to hear a LOT from the GOP about tightening of belts for the purpose of keeping order and maintaining national security. But who'll suffer most under austerity? All of those rust belt voters who believed Trump's thin plank about bringing jobs back, the poor, and already at-risk communities.

You don't have to 100% agree with Bernie, but for heaven's sake, let his strong progressive populism be a voice in the party. You're never going to have allies that are perfect, there's just no such thing.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

148. The problem is Drumpf opened the Overton Window wide on the right.

I hope the center holds if it is even still holding.

[Saviolo]

159. Not just Trump, either

The GOP have been dragging that window to the right since Reagan.

I think Democrats should start advocating ridiculous left-wing policies, like 100% tax rate over $750k/year income. Then when they're called out on it, back off by about 5%, and say, "There, we've compromised."

The GOP have been doing essentially this. That's the only way that openly totalitarian "Papers Please" policies would even be open to debate today.

[forjusticethunders]

290. As funny and awesome as it would be to use "expropriate and socialize the means of production"

as our starting negotiating point, the Right has, had (I mean this is the country that started by electing like 7 of 9 presidents from the Southern slavocracy class), and will have for the forseeable future a structural advantage in America. I'm just not sure we can play that game, at least until we've built a multi-racial, intersectional working class movement that can counter said structural advantage.

but it would be funny to just be like "Okay, turning every company over 20% of market share per market into a socialist co-op is too far for now, how about we just institute a maximum income of 1,000,000 per year? Great compromise!"

[bullwinkle428]

150. In total agreement here.

[90-percent]

15. I support Bernie enthusiastically!

And I find most of what he has to say to be spot on to this day. The Democratic party needs a lot of introspection, especially, it is my personal belief that Bernie would have beaten Trump and America was furious with "the establishment" and we nominated one of the most establishment candidates out there.

And is it only me that sees the irony of Hillary being busted for secret Goldman Sachs speeches, and Trump's cabinet is filled with former Goldman Sachs vulture capitalists?

-90% Jimmy

[Cha]

18. No BS wouldn't have won. Hillary had a brilliant Progressive Platform

Quit trying to smear her.

[Orrex]

73. I'd go a step further and say that she *did* win

And you're right--she ran a brilliant platform.

All of the post-election finger wagging is nothing more than an excuse to malign her, typically camouflaged in "helpful" suggestions about what she "should have done."

She should have campaigned harder in this or that state.
She should have kissed the ass of white working-class males.
She should have done this.
She should have done that.

The election was flat-out stolen from her by Comey and by Republican gerrymandering and race based voter suppression carried out by Republicans. It's only thanks to an obsolete and anachronistic electoral system that Herr Trump is occupying the Whitehouse.


Instead of obsessing about what Clinton allegedly did wrong, let's work to combat the wrongs that we know Republicans commit in their endless crusade to usurp the people's power.

[Cha]

82. Mahalo Orrex.. well stated!

[Orrex]

143. Thanks!

[spooky3]

209. totally agree, and would add that the Russion interference was another major illegitimate factor.

[brer cat]

332. +1000

Thank you. Well said.

[BainsBane]

19. They weren't secret

and she wasn't busted.

[Blue_true]

30. Hillary should have released the transcripts early on.

Look, I supported Hillary and donated money to her campaign during the primary and general. I believe Bernie was too far left for many Americans and would have lost the general. BUT, Hillary didn't help herself by her deep penchant for privacy, she should have released all speech transcripts and emails early one, there was nothing bad in them, the small amount of stuff that did cause pause, she could have explained away with time - but Hillary allowed non issues to fester and gave the Russians an opportunity to cause distrust of her among voters.

[BainsBane]

31. agreed

When they were released via Wikileaks, it was startling how little controversial was in them.

[Blue_true]

54. Hopefully our 2018 and 2020 field learned from what happened.

Never create a situation where outside forces get to dictate public image of a campaign.

[lapucelle]

281. Why the double standard for releasing documents?

Neither of her major opponents ever released their taxes, one failing to do so after repeatedly promising that he would.

[Chevy]

184. If Sanders was nominee Bloomberg would of run and won. n/t

[Kimchijeon]

192. I agree. Constructive criticism is a tough pill to swallow

But it's needed to move forward. Doubling down on things that didn't work or attacking each other only hurts us.

For those who are attacking others in the same tent, I can understand the appeal and temptation, it's easy to lash out in defensiveness and play the blame game. I understand their feelings.

All of us have more in common that not (Bernie supporters, other progressives, all the anti-trump people) and we'd all be unstoppable once we unite. I'm encouraged by the level of unity in the resistance I've seen so far, it's great.

For those that are tempted to henpeck each other to death let's remember... our real enemy is the coyote not the other chickens! We're all in the same coop ultimately.

I agree with you, it's insane to witness the level of hypocrisy seen with Hillary hate. Especially when what the right has done is at Crazytown levels of Cartoon Ridiculousness. All they have is lies, hate and fear.

I'm glad we're better than that, and Bernie's a great voice to have on our side!
[img][/img]

[milestogo]

20. March in lockstep, Bernie

Even though the fact that you don't is a big reason for your popularity.

[DanTex]

24. Yes, he is very popular with his left-wing base.

Problem is, that doesn't do much for the greater fight against the GOP and Trump. We need party unity for that.

[milestogo]

38. The resistance movement is made up largely of Bernie Supporters.

Sanders called for rallies across the country in support of the ACA yesterday. There were 140 such rallies. I hosted one. A couple of major groups were involved in organizing this (MoveOn, Our Revolution). The vast majority of people who came to the rally signed up through Our Revolution.

I haven't heard of the Democratic Party organizing any rallies or getting involved with the groups that do. You would think that supporting the ACA would fit their agenda.

Party unity would mean the Democrats joining with the groups that are heavily involved in resistance to Trump. But I don't see the Democratic party joining in or organizing their own resistance either.

What are Democrats doing to push back against Trump? No single elected official is doing more than Bernie Sanders. And yet look at all the Democrats who criticize him for it. Makes no sense.

[Me.]

47. Proof?

My friends and neighbors march, write letters, make calls and they are not Bernie people. Once again the influence of Senator Sanders and his followers is being over-estimated. A lot of us have been at this since we tried to warn everyone about Bush.

[BlueMTexpat]

52. +1! eom

[milestogo]

58. But who organizes the marches and rallies?

Since I hosted a rally I can tell you that 75% of the attendees signed up through Our Revolution, which is the Bernie Sanders group. I have yet to hear of the Democratic Party itself organizing a resistance event.

Sure, individual Democrats sign up and go to events, but the Democratic party itself does not join with other groups or promote these events to party members.

MoveOn and Our Revolution are not affiliated with the Democratic Party. They are leading the resistance to Trump. I am a member of the Democratic Party - locally and nationally - but they do absolutely nothing to organize grassroots resistance. They just email me over and over asking for money.

[Me.]

69. Again, I Think You Over Estimate

I don't doubt you, and the groups you mention, organize, but you are not the only ones. And while it may seem like you are the only ones, it is the same narrow view that has misrepresented the bigger picture in the past.

[milestogo]

75. I have not heard of a single protest event organized by the Democratic Party.

Neither locally nor nationally. There are hundreds of events going on every single week that are initiated by MoveOn and My Revolution.

Please provide a link to ONE resistance event that the Democratic Party has sponsored since Trump was elected. Just one.

[Me.]

132. You Know

We're not going to agree on this. WE will never see the situation with the same eyes. The self-importance of the Sanders people will continue to alienate. Just as the Senator this morning declined to share his mailing list with the DNC but says he will use it to support progressive candidates. How well did his candidates do in the last election? There is a Floridian who is still waiting for him to show up. It's the same old same old.

[LiberalLovinLug]

185. Why use terms like "self-importance of the Sanders people"?

Even if you believe that Sanders himself is just doing this all for attention, and has no principles at all, which if you look back historically on his tireless work for decades is absurd, do you honestly think those that support his fight against Trump are all doing it for self glory as well?

I am so sick of this purity test that Democrats cannot even embrace allies in their fight against the extremist right wing. In fact they even stoop to spending time attacking these allies. Baffling beyond belief.

[Me.]

191. Thats My Point

It’s not just his fight, there is resistance from many sources but to hear Sanders supporters it is they, and only them who know how things should play out. The only thing their criticisms about HRC & the Dems accomplished in the last election was to get 45 elected. And when there was a call for rallies Senator Sanders wasn’t standing at the podium alone. In case everyone has forgotten Senator Schumer and Leader Pelosi were there too.

As for purity I really take exception to the recent lecture by Senator Sanders as well as the threats made by Mr. Weaver if Re. Ellison wasn’t elected. I done listening.

[LiberalLovinLug]

195. "it is they, and only them who know how things should play out"

What a load of baloney.

Please quote Sanders or any of his supporters that said anything like this.

Its a pointless backwards vindictive childish purity test. You cannot even accept help. Everyone else who is against Trump that does not wear a big letter D in front of their name is your enemy as well. How can we afford to fight two enemies at once? Its laughable if it wasn't so juvenile and absurd.

[Me.]

201. Obviously

You and I see things quite differently. But try, if it's available, to see Mr. Weaver's appearance w/ Robbie Mook, on MSNBC. The one where he makes threats about what will be if Rep. Ellison isn't elected. And while I'm pointing out that which is "laughable if it wasn't so juvenile and absurd", why does the Senator refuse, as of this morning, to share his mailing list with the DNC, if we're all in this together?

[Goblinmonger]

212. You could end this argument by linking to demonstrations organized by the Dem Party.

That you haven't is pretty clear proof that they haven't.

As such, one may want to stop the deregatory comments towards those on the left that ARE out there doing this

[Me.]

215. I'm Not Making Deregatory Arguements Towards Those On The Left

There are lots of people on the left ...that doesn't make them automatic Sanders supporters.

[lapucelle]

324. Here you go...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/democratic-party-trump_us_58ac7f3ce4b0c4d5105717e0.

http://motleymoose.net/2017/02/18/5122/fighting-back-protect-our-care-democrats-call-for-aca-national-day-of-action/

http://act.txdemocrats.org/page/s/scotus-aca

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/democratic-leaders-organize-a-day-of-oppostion-to-obamacare-repeal

You get the picture.....

[mcar]

161. The women's March was not organized by Our Revolution

[milestogo]

230. It was not organized by the Democratic Party either.

[mcar]

243. No, it was a grassroots effort

As are many of the other marches. It's not all about the party or revolution.

[FloridaBlues]

233. No indivisible movement is leading the way not move on or Bernie

That guide on how to protest along with the women's march is what set this resistance movement.

[milestogo]

239. There were local protests immediately following the election.

It takes months to plan a huge DC based protest. The individuals who planned the women's protest did a great job. There are many such groups and people who are protesting.

MoveOn and Our Revolution are coordinating weekly and monthly protests across the country. They have the infrastructure/email lists in place to call on lots of people to show up.

MoveOn has been organizing resistance for a long time.

But its not a contest - the groups should work together and the Democratic Party should join them.

[lapucelle]

320. The very event you're talking about was a Democratic party initiative.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/sanders-schumer-obamacare-rallies

[UT_democrat]

204. Keep underestimating

Sanders influence at this parties own risk.

[Me.]

208. Not Underestimating It At All

Just refusing to overestimate it

[Cha]

53. No, it's not.. quit trying to take credit for everything.

The Resistance is made up all kinds of people pushing back against trump.

And, Tom Perez won the DNC Chair with Keith as his deputy.. they are going to have an inclusive coalition..

[milestogo]

59. Tell me, what is the Democratic Party doing to resist Trump?

All I get are emails asking for money.

[Cha]

104. We are Resisting.. while those like jeff weaver are

dividing and pissing us off.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

That's no way to win anything. So glad Tom Perez won!

[milestogo]

121. Still no answer to what the Democratic Party is doing to resist Trump.

Just crickets.

[Cha]

126. Everyone is doing everything they can to resist trump.. you have no idea what's going on.

Open your eyes and ears..



The Indivisible movement is fueling resistance to Trump

Created by a group of former congressional staffers, the guide, now a website, provides specific tactics for fighting against President Donald Trump’s agenda by taking a page from the tea party’s playbook. So far, over 6,000 local groups have registered at IndivisibleGuide.com, agreeing “to resist Trump’s agenda, focus on local, defensive congressional advocacy and embrace progressive values.” The guide has been downloaded over a million times and the site has already had over 10 million page views.

http://www.salon.com/2017/02/15/how-the-indivisible-movement-is-fueling-resistance-to-trump_partner/

[Gothmog]

249. I was at an Indivisible meeting Wednesday night with a large turnout

We had 100 people who were very motivated

[Cha]

255. Good to know, Goth! I love it.. everyone is resisting.. and

no one is hijacking this movement to resist trump. We're all in this together

[Gothmog]

330. There is another group that is separate from Indivisible with 900+ facebook members

This is exciting

[Blue_true]

68. You are making numerous unfounded assertions.

To say Democrats don't care about the ACA because they are not in street protests is sheer lunacy. Democrats have bled Congressional seats for a large part because they staunchly stood by the ACA while republicans tried repeatedly to destroy it in Congress and in states.

The problem that I have with the far left is their repeated assertions that if other progressives aren't doing exactly what they are doing, those other progressives are it have sold out, that is bullshit that only builds on divisions, none of which helps any of our goals.

[milestogo]

85. I don't consider myself a member of the "far left" and I don't think

most of the people in these groups do either. If the Democratic Party were organizing the grassroots we would be there. But the Democratic Party does not organize people. If they did they would attract a lot of new members. But all they seem to do is they hold fundraisers and ask for money. That doesn't attract new members.

These groups (MoveOn, Our Revolution) are successful because they fill a huge vacuum.

Its pretty ironic to ask that these other groups should move toward the Democratic Party in the name of unity, when the Democratic Party doesn't work with them. Unity has to be a 2 way street.

Yeah, and bleeding Congressional seats isn't exactly resistance.

[Blue_true]

137. Losing the congressional seats happened because Democrats stood for something.

Would you rather have a liar (republican) in office who takes every chance to damage your interests, or a person that stands on recognizable principles in office? When you answer that question badly, you get a Trump or Ilsa elected when they could have been defeated. Why chose protesting a beast and his policies over not letting him gain the office to begin with? People that can't see clear danger when it can be eliminated will spend time on less effective methods of mitigation, that is how I view protests, the time to stop Trump was on November 8 and early voting days in states that had early voting. Trump's Justice Department and republican led legislatures nationwide are working to make street protests difficult or outright illegal - the fact is they control the instruments of government and can do what they want, only limited by public tolerance to their tactics - already, they are working to stain all protestors with the actions of a tiny faction of protestors who show up with the intent of becoming violent - republicans will lie and get the general public to support them for a while, that is an oft repeated reality - the best course is to never give them power over the instruments of government through voting strategically.

[milestogo]

241. Yeah, the best course is to do absolutely nothing

except cry "never again".

[ELY08]

180. Complete Bull Shit

We are all part of #TheResistance
The Democratic Party has to stay out of organizing any of the protest, as it would give credence to 45's lie that this is sour grapes.
If you need someone to organize you against trump then you are part of the problem
Wake the fuck up

[bettyellen]

211. Exactly the Women's March was the biggest international protest in history ...

And should have gotten even more support from the fringe left instead of the derision for SJWs that want their civil rights. many of the biggest protests planned are about civil rights. Sad we still have to fight for this shit, but the Berners should be joining us in force. They want unity so they should be with us 100%.

[milestogo]

234. "the Democratic Party has to stay out of organizing any of the protest"

Yeah, worrying about being called "sour grapes" by a fascist should be the highest priority. That is the lamest excuse I've ever heard.

Rallies don't organize themselves - they are a huge amount of work. People don't just show up at the same time and place because the spirit moves them.

[ELY08]

256. ???

Sure they do
Ask Toomey
We tell him every Tuesday
Again
If you need someone to tell you what you should be doing then you are the problem
You stay on the DU and whine. We will take care of it with out you.
Enjoy

[Tarheel_Dem]

275. Boom!

[BainsBane]

276. That's absurd

There are all kinds of people involved in resistance, not just Sanders supporters. The largest effort was the women's march. To claim that is Bernie's doing is offensive. That activism does not emanate from a single member of the political elite. It was the work of millions of women. Activism is also being generated by immigrant rights activists, Muslim, and interfaith groups. To erase them in favor of your great man view of the world where you insist one member of the political elite is responsible for it all is incredibly offensive.

The Democrats are doing their jobs in congress and holding town halls in their districts. Representing their constituents. The ONE protest that Bernie helped organize was in conjunction with the rest of the Democratic leadership. Why should they be organizing rallies? They are supposed to be doing their damn jobs, not campaign endlessly. Trump staged a rally because he's desperate for attention. Our elected representatives have jobs to do. Rallies serve the interests of politicians, not the public.

Any member of the black caucus does more than Bernie on any day. A good number of senators and congressman have been far more active in pressing the Trump administration. Where has Bernie been on Russian interference, on the immigration raids or the Muslim ban? Has he mentioned the Russia issue even once? Where was he when Senators like a Franken and Booker and congressional reps were at the airports trying to stop their constituents from being deported? Bernie has instead chosen to focus on the race for DNC Chair, molbilizing his supporters around that rather than Trump. This article shows what he did to Jaime Harrison. http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/sanders-revolution-resists-dnc-loss-23540

You don't have the first idea of what is happening with the protests and local activism. In my area, the Democratic Party is holding forums and town halls in a number of issues. And many of those same reps have been involved with protests and activist groups. No, they aren't rallies because the purpose is to LISTEN to voters and answer their questions rather than feed the politician's desire for applause.

[Skidmore]

277. Thank you!

Spot on, my friend. Dems keep doing the work in the trenches from where battles are wom.

[lapucelle]

317. It was a joint letter from Schumer and Sanders that called for the rallies.

Schumer is a Democrat.

https://berniesanders.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/201702101821-1.pdf

[brutus smith]

43. What is it

That the left wing base believes in that you don't?

[Cha]

57. The Dems with Tom Perez and Keith Ellison are doing just fine..

they don't need to "lockstep" as you so rudely put it.

[milestogo]

62. Excuse me?

I was implying that Bernie Sanders is being told to march in lockstep with the Democrats.

[Cha]

100. That's full on baloney.. don't just make up stuff.

[milestogo]

119. So when I clarify what I meant its full on baloney?

And I just make stuff up?

Must have hit a nerve, you're really hostile today.

[SMC22307]

193. Dems have complete control of a measly SIX states, and Sensible Centrism got us there.

LOL. Yeah, "the Dems" are doing just fine...

[Cha]

254. Yeah, we have new leaders now.. and we don't need any dividers

with their negativity trying to tear them down.

[bravenak]

27. That's why I wanted Buttigieg

[Blue_true]

44. I hope that Perez give him a significant policy making role in the DNC.

As well as give big policy making rolls to every state chairperson and vice chair. The

DNC needs to address how voters that are Independents, but align Democrat participate in our primaries - I favor letting any Independent whose voter registration date was 6 months or more before our primary pull a Democratic ballot, if they want - the registration date is shown on voter cards, the DNC should work with state election officials to publicize the cutoff date. Will the change allow republican leaning Indies to mess with our primary? Maybe, but messing with our primary would be an indication of how weak their field is - we need to focus on having strong candidates who have set up a strong campaign structure and have no hidden surprises that will haunt their campaign - if we get that, tampering will be a non issue.

[bravenak]

48. I disagree.

Independents want the freedom to not be a part of the party but to have ALL the benefits of being a part of the party. I want closed primaries. If they want a say, fill out that silly piece if paper that says you are a dem. If they are too good to join us, they might be too good to make the decisions for us.

[BlueMTexpat]

55. I most heartily

agree with you on this, brave!

[Blue_true]

103. But, the cold reality is that Democratic leaning Independents vote in November.

Or don't vote because they had no chance to pick a candidate and hence develop affinity for a candidate.

I really don't think allowing Independents to vote in the Democratic primary would have changed the ultimate result, it would have trimmed her margin a little (actual studies have shown this), but Hillary would still have won the primary comfortably before super delegates were counted. What allowing Democrat leaning Independents to vote would have done is take their not voting away as a campaign issue for republicans and it would have more invested those voters in the eventual Democratic nominee.

Lastly, some of the things Bernie said during the primary campaign and his failure to full throated endorse Hillary when it was clear he could not win the nomination didn't help, but some tactical mistakes Hillary made like not early releasing speech transcripts and all emails, as well as not spending more time out visiting small and medium sized cities likely hurt her worst that Bernie's bullshit.

[bravenak]

109. The cold reality is that they better join us if they want a say

Sitting on the sidelines during the primary is dumb. It costs nothing to join, just a commitment to democratic principles and a willingness to work together for common goals. Join. Join or keep complaining about nobody listening. We cannot track the wants and needs of those who refuse to self select in.
By being a member, you get surveys that let the party know your positions. Votinb in the primaries is not the end all be all. They also want a say in the direction of the party. Well, no. I am working for the party and always vote. The party can count on me. So I get a survey, a say, phone calls, invites to meetings and sessions to discuss policy.

Join.

[Blue_true]

153. I am a member of the Democratic Party and once was offered

a chance to campaign for a national DNC committee member seat. You are not lecturing me on what being a Democrat is. The fact is more and more young people are registering as Independents because of the mistaken belief that will give them more influence on chosing candidates. If we allow those people to pull Democratic ballots and become invested in our candidates, that they help chose, we can move them away from the mistaken belief that being an Independent is somehow a good thing.

On surveys. I contribute regularly to Democratic candidates. One problem that I see with many DNC surveys is they give a reader the impression that a contribution must be made to finish the survey, I hope that Perez correct this issue immediately, people should finish the survey, submit it then be asked whether they want to contribute.

[bravenak]

156. I am lecturing you

[Plucketeer]

318. I sure hope Perez calls for changes

in how they try and get donations. Those stupid (forgive me, I have a brain) "surveys" are SO slanted and phony that I've gotten to where if I get yet ANOTHER one of them from Pelosi or whichever luminary they choose to use to provoke me to get out my credit card, I don't even open them. But there was a time that I used to bother to fill out the numb-brained questions and return them with a few bucks. I got to wondering what the results of those questionnaires might look like - you know - to see how my ideas compared to others responses. I started sending those opinion sheets to the offices of whoever had their name as the sender. I provided my contact info and politely asked where I could observe the results of the survey. I've NEVER gotten a response, no matter who I returned the survey's to. I guess my 10, 20, 50 dollars is just not worthy of an answer. I've never found the tabulations of those surveys and I've come to the conclusion they don't even bother. The only thing that's tallied is whatever monies they get in response. Of course, maybe someone reading this can tell me where to find the results of those surveys. Anyone???
Also, the questions posed are mind-numbingly repetitive. Every answer - by anyone with half a brain - is going to be the same if you're of a liberal frame of mind. Frankly, it's an insult to my intelligence to ask if I think the GOP's doing a good job - or if I think the Dems should fight to preserve SS and Medicare. If you don't KNOW how I'd answer those queries, I wouldn't be getting those surveys!

[Gothmog]

251. One of the many bills in the Texas legis that I am tracking is to require party registration in Texa

There are 250 bills in the legis using the term "election code" and one is to require party registration to facilitate closed primaries. I doubt that this bill will go anywhere. I am really worried about a couple of bills that want to get rid of straight ticket voting due to the Democratic sweep in Harris county.

[brer cat]

334. +1 nt

[Chevy]

186. And he would of been spared by the finger wag? n/t

[SMC22307]

203. He was honored by the Kennedy family thanks to an essay re: Bernie.

https://www.jfklibrary.org/Education/Profile-in-Courage-Essay-Contest/~/media/32A849B1D0E6446B9BCAFCCDF90B2BB8.pdf

Just a hunch... he focuses on important things, not petty things like finger wags.

[Chevy]

220. Might want to tell that to some of Sanders followers then. n/t

[SMC22307]

226. I'm telling it to you...

since you brought up the utterly inconsequential "finger wag." Focus on the issues, eh?

[Chevy]

246. Wasn't inconsequential when I suggested Buttigieg

would be a good pick for the job to bring peace to factions and the Berners went all hay wired saying I just wanted to screw Bernie over for not choosing Ellison. This is why we can't have nice things.
Interestingly Perez people were fine with that option.. Never finger wagged once.

[SMC22307]

200. Buttigieg's a Bernie fan.

Buttigieg graduated from St. Joseph High School in 2000, where he was president and valedictorian of his senior class.[4] In his senior year at St. Joseph's High School, he was honored by Caroline Kennedy and other members of President Kennedy's family during a May 22, 2000, ceremony at the John F. Kennedy Library for his prize-winning essay for the JFK Profiles in Courage Essay Contest. Buttigieg’s winning essay centered on the integrity and political courage demonstrated by U.S. Congressman Bernie Sanders of Vermont, the nation's only Independent member of Congress. He was also selected as one of two Indiana delegates to the United States Senate Youth Program.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Buttigieg

And the actual essay, for your reading enjoyment:

https://www.jfklibrary.org/Education/Profile-in-Courage-Essay-Contest/~/media/32A849B1D0E6446B9BCAFCCDF90B2BB8.pdf

Honored by the Kennedy family thanks to an essay about Bernie. Awesome.

[mopinko]

32. your 15 minutes is up, bernie

not to say he shouldnt speak, but he sure should give up the party bashing.

[Blue_true]

51. Bernie has some valid points. Democrats can appear in

anyway to be just more tools of the rich and powerful. While we should never turn away rich people, corporations and military people that align with our core values, we should make it clear that they will never have more than an equal seat at the table with rank and file Democrats and Democratic leaning Independents.

[ehrnst]

84. I don't see why those who aren't in the party should expect a seat at the party table. (nt)

[DownriverDem]

97. Totally agree

I too have a problem with folks who think they can invade the Dem Party without joining. The repubs love them for sure.

[truebluegreen]

125. Maybe because those who aren't in the party outnumber those who are.

Wanna win elections, other than primaries? Find a way to bring them in.

[ehrnst]

221. Got some stats (otherwise known as facts) to back that up? (nt)

[truebluegreen]

238. Pew Research good enough for you?

2016: Republicans 24%, Democrats 30%, Independents 40%

That was before the election. Democrats lost some ground (but may be rebounding), Republicans gained some--Independents hold the biggest percentage.

Gallup shows the same thing; even if they are as skewed toward Rs as they usually are. Independents at 40% or better. And trending up.

http://www.pewresearch.org/data-trend/political-attitudes/party-identification/

http://www.gallup.com/poll/15370/party-affiliation.aspx

[ehrnst]

242. Geez. That Pew info goes to 2015.

Which was not a presidential election year.

In 2016, Hillary got more votes than any candidate save Obama in '08. No matter the party affiliation.

I find it interesting that even when people identify as "independent" they vote for a candidate for one of the two parties.

How do you 'splain that?

I mean, if that many "independent" identifying voters voted that way, Bernie might actually run as "independent."

Why do you think he decided to jump on a Democratic ticket - instead of going third party like Nader did?

Oh - wait.....

[truebluegreen]

245. Yeah. Because there are enough independents who aren't crazy.

Do you want them in the party or out of it? Do you want them invested in the process? Do you want them voting in primaries or just accepting the candidate a majority of 30% of the electorate picks?

Yes, Hillary won the popular vote, but if Democrats were so popular why didn't we take the Senate? If Hillary was so popular why did Obama get 5 million more votes in his first election? We have a bigger population now than we did 8 years ago, why was turnout down, especially with Trump on the ballot?

And are you seriously asking why people vote for Republicans or Democrats, if they don't consider themselves as such? Can you name the last President who wasn't a member of either of those two parties? Doh.

Oh geez--2015 instead of 2016. Tell me, is there a massive difference in percentages from 2011 and 2012? Non-election and election year? No? How about a trend line? Looks like there is one of those: Democrats peaked in 2009 and have been dropping ever since, while Independents are rising. What does that say to you?

It says a couple of things to me. Disappointment in Democrats. An explanation for lower turnout. And a partial explanation for the MASSIVE election losses since 2009.

So. Whaddaya gonna do? How do we get those voters back? Or do we continue to pretend they are not important?

[DownriverDem]

294. They are welcomed

In my district new folks are welcomed big time. However some of them are very pushy and act like "we" are the enemy. I really don't get that at all. And I don't get why Bernie quit the Dem Party as soon as he lost. How is that going to be a good thing? The country is not Vermont. We have a two party system. Focus on beating trump and the repubs. I am not your enemy.

[truebluegreen]

335. They don't feel welcomed.

They feel like cannonfodder, useful for votes and otherwise disregarded. Remember Rahm and his infamous description "effing retarded" and comment, "where are they gonna go?" They do.

And now, those people who were so disrespected have seen the experts lose to DFT. I am not surprised that they are het up about it.

As for Bernie, he quit the Dem party to finish his term as the independent his constituents elected. That's a level of respect I would like to see ALL politicians demonstrate (imagine where we would be if Republicans listened to voices other than the ones in their heads) (or the radio).

[Barack_America]

66. Yeah, he should just take his email list and walk off into the sunset.

[ehrnst]

91. As if he has the only "progressive" email list. He'll never leave the spotlight for the sunset.

Ever.

He needs the Dems. Why do you think he ran as a Democrat instead of Independent?

That's the only way he stays in the spotlight. See also, Jill Stein.

[DownriverDem]

98. What is his purpose then?

I don't get it. Be a Dem or don't be a Dem. Even Bernie knew he had to run as a Dem. I don't get your view at all.

[ehrnst]

222. +1000. (nt)

[yodermon]

116. Literally the most popular politician in the USA. So yeah, stfu beeeeernie

ffs

[yallerdawg]

41. "Same old, same old."

Could you all find someone other than a septuagenarian to lead your "youth movement"?

I'm sorry - I am just adverse to cognitive dissonance - and opportunistic populist hucksterism.

[boston bean]

129. Yep.

[UT_democrat]

210. His record

Says differently.

And nice ageism,

[Gothmog]

326. Great post

[Gothmog]

42. K&R

[Gothmog]

45. I had friends at the DNC

I heard from my friends that Ellison and Perez are friends in real life. I know that Ellison was praising Perez Friday night before the vote. The deputy chairman idea was evidently planned in advance for the winner to award to the loser no matter who won.

I have met Ellison on a couple of occasions and I like him. I just like Tom Perez a great deal more due to his his work on voting rights. Perez rebuilt the Civil Rights and the voting rights sections of the DOJ. This article was cited on another thread but his quote makes me smile http://prospect.org/article/subtle-force-tom-perez

In October of 2009, Perez was finally confirmed and set out to reform a division in disarray. Under Bush, the division was accused of ousting career prosecutors who were insufficiently conservative and punishing those who didn’t leave. In his early months, it reportedly wasn’t uncommon for staffers to break down in Perez’s office as they recalled the trauma. Within a year, Perez turned around morale and transformed the division into a formidable enforcement machine.

I just believe that Perez is well suited to fight GOP voter suppression

[Me.]

50. Well Said

[Gothmog]

56. Voting rights are my passion and so I may be biased here

Perez was at the DOJ when the DOJ joined the Texas voter id and redistricting cases. Perez was instrumental in the DOJ decision to be active in these case. The DOJ played a critical role in both cases.

[lamp_shade]

49. K&R. You speak for me.

[Barack_America]

61. After Clinton's loss, Sanders is the de facto leader of the Dem party...

...and he has a mailing list Dems are desperate to get.

So yeah, he does have the right to lecture the head of the DNC.

[ehrnst]

72. "De facto leader?" In what way? In that he won't bother to become one?

Anyone can lecture the DNC, in the same way anyone in the DNC can lecture Bernie.

But "leader?" He had problems keeping staff on his PAC.

[Cryptoad]

86. Bernie is not a Democrat and has no rights

connected to the Party.... He has done far greater harm to the Democratic Party than any one person in the last 4 years. and it seems he is not going to rest until he complete destroys it.

[Plucketeer]

319. (D) (I) (R) (E)

As to the (D)..... I've looked at my drivers license, and I can't find my (D). Shouldn't that be a requirement on licenses or does that smack too much of a kind of suppression - you know, everyone identified as to WHAT they are as opposed to WHO they are? In this day and age of everyone sporting "tats", what would be so wrong with having a (D) or an (R) or even an (I) behind your ear or on the back of your neck? Of course, you'd have the "freedom" to choose whatever pretty font you favored. And too, you'd have the option of having your identifier inked where it wouldn't show unless you were on a nude beach. Of course, if you did opt to have it some place "private", instances of verification might prove embarrassing (or intriguing!). Gosh, if having the appropriate letter next your identifying documents is THAT important, then I think it would be to our benefit to have a tat - just in case we LOST our wallet or purse of course - or when you're standing in line at the polling place. It wouldn't be unprecedented - it's sorta been done before.

[Cryptoad]

323. I supppose that the reason

he has declared himself as an (I) , heh?

[Blue_true]

106. Bernie is not the defacto leader of the party.

Hillary Clinton is. After a break, Hillary is stepping back into the fray. My guess is that Hillary wants to be involved in a way that does not crowd out 2020 Democratic candidates from getting organized now.

[IronLionZion]

63. Perez welcomes input from all types of Democrats

that was a big part of his victory speech was to welcome ideas and opinions on how to move the party forward and win

[LexVegas]

64. Bernie is the same old same old. nt

[Cryptoad]

67. If Bernie wants to help the Democratic Party

He should join the Party or shut the fuck up!

[Paladin]

77. Amen. Enough of the intra-party pissing contest.

We have a country to salvage.

[lunatica]

80. Ever heard of herding cats?

That's what makes the Democratic Party the representatives of the American People. If you want jack boot salutes become a Republican.

Why the hell should we be satisfied with business as usual? If our party can't include Bernie Sanders then they can't include me or millions of other Progressives either.

[Cryptoad]

94. GO form ur own party if u feel that way!

[lunatica]

96. Nope. I'm a Democrat

Always have been and always will be.

[UT_democrat]

213. Wow

This sounds like a version of "we won so get over it"

[Cryptoad]

219. who won what?

What i said has nothing to do with anybody winning anything.... WTF u talking abt.

[Blue_true]

111. I agree. All factions of the party must be drawn into decisionmaking.

But once the process of chosing a nominee is done, all factions must align behind that nominee if we plan to get anything done.

[lunatica]

120. Actually I think all factions must align behind a Democratic platform, not a person

And the nominee(s) must do their best to make the party platform happen.

We don't think like Republicans who believe that the Dear Leader must be followed no matter what. We believe the people, all the people, should be served.

That's what essentially makes us better for Americans. Because our tent holds everybody, with no exceptions.

[Blue_true]

176. I don't disagree on this point. The candidate must run under the platform.

And the platform must have input from all factions.

[bettyellen]

113. All these allusions to fascism would be funny if we weren't facing actual fascism right now.

Of ever there was a time for unity, it's now. This crap is not helping.

[lunatica]

134. Having a say does not mean there is no unity

Bernie Sanders isn't going to give up on his Progressive views and since I'm a Progressive I think his ideas only make the Democratic party stronger. We can handle debate just like we've always handled it.

Every single move towards progress in this country is what has made this country truly great, and every single progressive move has been through strife and based on disputes, resistance and demands. A very recent example of that is that the Supreme Court ruled for equal marriage rights for the LGBT community. There was plenty of in-party fighting for generations and there is still a wrongful backlash against it but if anyone thinks it was just going to happen magically they're fooling themselves.

The same goes for the Women's movement. Without us demanding our rights we'd still be stuck in the kitchen.

If MLK Jr. hadn't headed his movement and faced horrible repercussions the Black community would still be stuck in pre-Civil Rights reality.

[bettyellen]

171. I get that, but all that depends on job one- unifying against Trump and the GOP congress...

Everything else hinges on that. I'm not sure people still going on about "jackboots" and "lockstep" get how silly they sound in the age of Trump. It's as if their greatest fears have come true, and they want to ignore it because it would mean finding common cause with mainstream Dems. i don't think unity means this lockstep bullshit, I don't even know how to talk to people with that mindset.

[lunatica]

175. Unquestioning unification is the essence of lockstep

and jackboot.

[bettyellen]

183. Unquestioning unification against the Trump administration is bad? I just can't.... sorry.

I can see a lot of gray areas but this is not one.

[Maven]

228. If Bernie Sanders can't even join the party then he has no business telling it what to do.

Tired of his arrogance and hypocrisy.

[elleng]

81. Give it a break, DanTex.

DIVISIVE is YOU.

[ornotna]

122. Divisive and authoritarian

Toe the line or your voice is worthless. Still fighting the primaries it seems.

[SunSeeker]

130. That's not what Dan said and calling Dan an "authoritarian" is an over the top insult.

Insulting Dems is divisive.

[ornotna]

147. Have you read the thread?

Maybe not the OP directly but plenty of it in this thread. Being told to "shut the fuck up" doesn't quite give me warm fuzzies.

[SunSeeker]

152. You weren't insulting the thread, you were insulting Dan. nt

[ornotna]

163. Then alert is your friend

I have no intention of editing.

[SunSeeker]

181. Your stick figure flipping me off says a lot about you. nt

[ornotna]

345. Just noticed this reply

Sorry, but you're seeing things that aren't there. I've had this same avatar for many years now and you are the first to think you were getting "flipped off" from it.

[SunSeeker]

346. Your avatar is a gif that sticks out its tongue and raises its middle fingers.

[ornotna]

347. Ok. Whatever

Stay paranoid

[SunSeeker]

348. No paranoia, just observing facts. nt

[Cha]

267. No, BS started lobbing pot shots at the Democratic Party.. he

can be called out.

We're not going to be quiet and roll over for him

Tom Perez and Keith Ellison are moving our Party Forward

We have new inclusive leaders now, who were elected because they are trusted to know what they're doing.

This is the kind of leader who we'll be going forward with.. so much respect..

Link to tweet

[George II]

293. Right. Dan is only pointing out what Sanders has already done -

Within an hour or so of Perez being elected, he tweeted out what Perez "has to do", and he's already made two appearances on television criticizing the Democratic Party.

Dan didn't post fiction, he posted fact.

I agree 100% with the OP.

[Cha]

339. Everybody talking about working together.. but he's

the one who isn't.

On some kind of overkill crusade that has nothing to do with our newly elected DNC Chair and his co-chair.. Tom Perez and Keith Ellison.

Thank you, George

[George II]

340. Did you see that Ellison just invited Perez to be his guest....

....at the joint session of Congress tomorrow night?

I have a feeling that as Labor Secretary and Congressman, they've gotten to know each other very well and really like each other.

My early take is that this is going to be great for our Party.

[Cha]

342. Yes, I did!! I was smiling from ear

to shining ear!

Yes, they are genuine friends and between them they're going to take on the whole Democratic Country!

A Muslim and a 2nd Generation immigrant..

Thomas Edward "Tom" Perez was born and raised in Buffalo, New York, to parents Grace (née Altagracia Brache Bernard) and Rafael Antonio de Jesús Pérez Lara, who were both first-generation Dominican immigrants.[4] His father, who earned U.S. citizenship after enlisting in the U.S. Army after World War II, worked as a doctor in Atlanta, Georgia, before moving to Buffalo, where he worked as a physician at a Veterans Affairs hospital.[5] His mother, Grace, came to the United States in 1930 after her father, Rafael Brache, was appointed as the Dominican Republic's Ambassador to the United States. Brache was initially an ally of Rafael Trujillo, but after a falling out he was declared an enemy of the state, forcing he and his family to remain in the United States.[6]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Perez

[Gothmog]

331. I also strongly disagree

DanTex is not being divisive. He is using facts to back up his claims

[AleksS]

90. Bernie's the best gift the GOP ever got.

Bernie's the best gift the GOP ever got.

And he continues to divide, divide, divide. DO you think when he gets home, in private he wears a "MAGA 2020" hat?

Bernie: NOT HELPING! Be a part of the party. If you want to run the party, be a part. It's our team, and you didn't want to be of it. You won't get ANY of your vision to come to fruition if you split the party, or keep trying to do it alone. Keep splitting the party, and it'll keep losing. And then we get 0, zero, nada, progressive principles. We get Trumpian principles. Do you like those? Then keep up the good work! Want a number greater than zero? There's a party out there for you. The invitation's written. The water's fine, jump on in!

[SunSeeker]

133. Exactly. And it's the gift that keeps on giving. nt

[Cha]

168. Thank you, AleksS

[StubbornThings]

250. "Didn't want to be of it."

He almost won the nomination of that party.

[Chevy]

253. And if he runs for 2020 the GOP just drop their

big binder full off opposition research on him.

[DownriverDem]

93. My problem with Bernie

Even though I agree with many of Bernie's ideas, he is not a Dem. I am a proud Dem. He really hurt my feelings when he quit the party after he lost. We are a two party country. I just wish those who support Bernie would realize that our focus is to defeat trump and the repubs. The only way that will happen is when we all join together and vote for the Democrats.

[ehrnst]

101. You mean more voters than turned out for any other candidate except Obama in '08?

And the only definition of left is "Bernie supporter?"

Since when?

[Cryptoad]

107. Seems that it Bernie that is lecturing the Party

He has no right to lecture the DNC. Berniecrats should form their own party rather than trying to take over ours.

[Me.]

135. After All, According To Him, He Doesn't Want To Share His Mailing List

With the DNC. Real unity BS.

[Cha]

157. yeah, 'cause that ain't gonna work

[Cryptoad]

172. He has right to lecture the Party abt its intrastructure ,,,,He's not a democrat

[Cha]

131. No, you give it a break.. there's no fucking 3rd way here.. that's

just a stupid buzzword that means absolutely nothing.

[jalan48]

102. If Bernie starts giving the Democrats a break you should be concerned.

It will mean a Third party is being formed.

[Cryptoad]

110. Thats a great idea for the Berniecrats

[Blue_true]

118. Third parties already exist. They are typically braying in the wilderness.

Regardless of their dreams, people on the far left should realize that Americans will not start voting more far left until progressives to the right of the far left have shown voters that voting left is a good idea.

[jalan48]

123. We shall see. The Democratic strategy worked wonders in 2016-it might do even better in 2018.

[asuhornets]

105. I agree with u 100%. Bernie thinks he has all the answers...n/t

[SidDithers]

108. DU rec...

Sid

[Z_California]

112. Give it a break Dan

"Tom understands that the same-old same-old isn't working".

This is the part of Bernie's statement that was worthy of creating this divisive OP? Really?

Sometimes I wonder if some are here to assure there is no party unity.

Here's the rest of Bernie's statement:

"We must open the doors of the party to working people and young people in a way that has never been done before," read Sanders' statement. "Now, more than ever, the Democratic Party must make it clear that it is prepared to stand up to the 1 percent and lead this country forward in the fight for social, racial, economic and environmental justice."

[Martin Eden]

170. +1000

DanTex is the one who needs to give it a rest. What's divisive is telling the huge swath of Democrats who voted for Sanders in the primary that their input is not welcome.

Bernie's quoted message is not divisive and should resonate with all Democrats.

If we and our leaders (which includes Bernie Sanders) can't have a spirited and honest discussion on how to craft a message and policies to defeat the Rethugs, then we are bound to fail.

[boston bean]

207. Umm. The democratic party has been doing that.

[riderinthestorm]

263. Yup. +1 nt

[secondwind]

114. I was and still am a very avid Sanders supporter, but when he lost the primary, I was

all in for Hillary. I am a proud progressive Democrat, and I would be damned if I would vote 3rd party in 2016, the most important election of my lifetime. Shame on anyone who did... look what we got instead.

[meadowlander]

115. The party needs good ideas from everyone.

We should be listening to each other respectfully and discussing options instead of labeling people "Berniecrats" and telling them to shut up and go away.

[idahoblue]

117. We need to stop fighting each other.

Our goal is to defeat the cons, not those within our own party. We claim to be a big tent but we are really a bunch of squabbling fools, looking for the perfect candidate. That person does not exist, the worst we have is far better than any con. We need to be a united force if we ever expect to gain power.

[SunSeeker]

124. K & R

[The Blue Flower]

127. If unity is the most important thing, why put up a divisive post

Bernie's as entitled to his opinion as the rest of us, and among us there are many opinions. Why single out those who agree with him? Is this unity? I'm really tired of those who need to poke him and those who agree with him.

[democratisphere]

136. Gag order.

[askyagerz]

142. Unity is a given on taking trump down

But we all don't need to be holding hands to do it. None of us can be sure where the Democratic party is heading in the future. There are going to be lots of criticisms and differing opinions going forward. It's how intelligent people do things. People who listen to Bernie aren't dumb zombies so why does it matter what he says? They will do what they feel is right in the end anyway. I could honestly care less who is running the DNC. I wear big boy pants and make my own decisions...

[NRaleighLiberal]

145. this shit is just so exhausting.....

[KPN]

160. I must have missed something. Can you please elaborate on

Bernie "lecturing Perez"? You have consistently criticized Bernie and Bernie supporters in the past, so without a little more info, this just seems like another sour grapes rant. To borrow your own words, "this is not helpful".

[zentrum]

162. Go Bernie! The

.....establishment Dems of the old DNC lost too many elections in smaller offices throughout the country in previous years. It's why we don't have one of the checks on Rump that we could have.

Bernie is right to apply heat from the left. We have to make sure the Party understands the lessons of the Presidential Election.

Bernie is really trusted by masses of ordinary people and that's very important to getting Dems in office in future elections up and down ticket.

Go Bernie!

[Danmel]

164. He keeps saying"we"

Who is this we, Bernie? Last I checked, the minute Hillary secured the nomination, you left the Democratic party. If you want to talk about"we" become a Democrat. Otherwise, go lecture someone else.

[Dopers_Greed]

177. I supported Bernie during the primaries

But he needs to shut up.

He's done more to help Trump than he has the Dems.

[nolabels]

179. People hate to hear what they know is wrong especially if they have something to do with it.

This thread is proof

[azmom]

187. Bernie was not lecturing Perez.

This is just more Bernie hate when what we need is unity.

Unrec.

[Buns_of_Fire]

189. Maybe DU needs a "Post-Election 2016" forum... nt

[Stellar]

190. I guess I'm what you called a Berniecrat so I'm supposed..

to go some where and sit down and shut the f#ck up for the sake of unity.

Well, I've already done something for the sake of unity when I "voted blue no matter who", but that still doesn't matter to some people who just want me to STFU and be content.

[brutus smith]

205. Hear! Hear!

[UT_democrat]

216. Seconded

[bunnies]

240. Actually. We're supposed to go form our own fucking party.

According to some in this thread. Never mind the fact that a vast majority of us are life-long Democrats.

I'm so fucking tired of this shit. No wonder some of us have given up.

[Stellar]

303. At 72 years old, I guess I'm not allowed to sound as though

I'm not supporting Democrats...I've been warned that it's against the rules. 72yrs old and I've been a Democrat and voted that way my entire voting life.

[ananda]

198. Why is it not helpful?

As far as I know, Sanders is just about always right.

He's an elder statesman, a great one, offering advice
to a newbie at the DNC.

I call that class!

[randome]

202. A 'newbie'? Perez was Labor Secretary, for Christ's sake!

What has Sanders done for the Democratic Party other than whine about it? Nothing, that's what.

Why would he have some special insight into a job for a party he disdains?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

[Gothmog]

252. Perez did a great job at the DOJ and the voting rights section

I have met Ellison on a couple of occasions and I like him. I just like Tom Perez a great deal more due to his his work on voting rights. Perez rebuilt the Civil Rights and the voting rights sections of the DOJ. This article was cited on another thread but his quote makes me smile http://prospect.org/article/subtle-force-tom-perez

In October of 2009, Perez was finally confirmed and set out to reform a division in disarray. Under Bush, the division was accused of ousting career prosecutors who were insufficiently conservative and punishing those who didn’t leave. In his early months, it reportedly wasn’t uncommon for staffers to break down in Perez’s office as they recalled the trauma. Within a year, Perez turned around morale and transformed the division into a formidable enforcement machine.

Perez is well suited to fight GOP voter suppression which has to a major part of any DNC efforts

[randome]

261. Fuck yeah! Sounds like who we've been waiting for!

[Gothmog]

298. Perez was at the DOJ when the DOJ sued Texas in the voter id and redistricting cases

The DOJ was very helpful in these cases. Fighting GOP voter suppression is a key area for the DNC and Perez is the right man for this job

[Cryptoad]

224. Geez,,, guess next thing i will hear is how Bernie is,,,,

Omnipotent?

[nikibatts]

227. Thank you for this post.

[FloridaBlues]

229. Totally agree Bernie we have to move past divisions

And take a page from Ellison and DNC chair working together

[Hoyt]

231. Liked many of Sanders' policies, but not his trumesque Nationalism and views on foreign trade

and workers who were likened to scabs. He was less than honest on the chances of single payer, and his criticism of Clinton hurt us in GE. I still would have supported him if nominated. Too bad some Sanders' supporters didn't have Clinton's back against GOPers who pandered to ignorant white wing racists.

[WinkyDink]

232. Agreed. By the time Trump is done, we'll be struggling to get back to normality, not wage a revo-

lution.

[DFW]

235. Ellison pled for untiy before even leaving the room.

Bernie should follow Ellison's example and toot his own horn on his own time. No one is forcing him to join the Democratic Party, but by the same token, he is waving his sword from a rather high horse by claiming a right to publicly lecture the new DNC chair before he has even had 12 hours to show in what direction he is heading. Bernie Sanders has a right to his opinion, but the direction of the DNC? This is NOT Bernie Sanders' call.

[Gothmog]

299. Ellison is a good man

I was glad to see Ellison wear a Team Tom button on TV

[Mike Nelson]

236. I'm...

...very proud of the way Perez and Ellison acted - and was impressed will all the candidates!

[FreeStateDemocrat]

244. Arrogant and sent the wrong message, become a Democrat full time for starters!

[Progressive dog]

257. Bernie needs to realize that most Democrats

support the party, since it's the only way to get things done. Since Bernie was never a Democrat, he should not have been allowed to run in the Democratic primaries. Apparently the DNC made a mistake in letting him run. He couldn't even swing that handful of votes that Hillary needed.

[pnwmom]

259. He might have been able to -- if he tried.

But instead, he waited till the convention in July to finally endorse Hillary. And then he spent July, August, and most of September writing his book instead of campaigning (only 2 campaign events even in September.)

[dae]

262. If you really enjoy broad strokes how about Hill losing the popular

vote without Bernie? Yes Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin were close but without most Bernie supporters votes they may not have been.

[OiledBeachyFlorida]

268. DNC has changed over years , Bernie hasn't

When the party supports the people, millions of new Independent and youth coming of age will
readily accept the party.

As for a mistake letting Sanders join the DNC ... He has a better voting record than 95% of so-
called Democrats in the party when it comes to Corporate influenced vote. Do a little research
and you'll find he supports people in a constant way his entire career in public service. He's not
like Hillary or other pay4play in the party that have one story behind closed doors and another when
on cam or talking to the public.

This planet is already beyond help IMHO and 45 is speeding up a process that needs immediate
attention from the corporate greed of profit before the health and welfare of people.

Your children and their kids will look back at your comment, if we're all fortunate enough (including
planet) to survive that long and wonder where your head was at

NOW is a Crucial time for real change from corporate influence started by no other than Bill and those same corporate ties are what's killing our Democratic party as we type.

We have Census in 2020, if we can't get control of State Gov. and congressional office's the gerry-
mandering will continue and 45's influence on SCOTUS won't help the suppression we face already.


Blame corporate money and those that willingly accept it in Congress before casting blame on the
few that actually want people and planet represented instead of the paid intention of corporations
and the hacks of Wall St.

[Progressive dog]

285. Bernie did not join the Democrats

Last edited Mon Feb 27, 2017, 10:50 AM - Edit history (1)

Bernie wants to run the DNC without being a Democrat.
Besides, if you think the planet is already beyond help, how can it matter who runs it. If you think that progress means going back to the years when Bernie's ideas were what Democrats believed., then we should have reached Utopia by now. If you think that a country containing less than 5% of the world's people, is going to save the world because Bernie hates corporations, then good luck with those alternatives to reality.
Corporations are just mechanisms that allow people to work together to achieve things that they want. Most scientific advances in agriculture, in health care, in transportation over the last two hundred years have come about through corporate research. The world's people are better fed, have better health, have more human rights, and have more democratic governments that they did when Bernie was born. We need to continue to regulate the way that corporations are allowed to operate.
Setting up boogeymen is easy, actually having a rational replacement is hard.

[gopiscrap]

337. welcome to DU

[liquid diamond]

260. I'm so tired of this guy talking shit on the sidelines.

Go the fuck away!

[snort]

264. Shit like this?:

"I understand in Vermont, here and all across this country people are nervous and they are apprehensive and you have reason to feel that way, but two things:

"Number 1: Nobody has the right to throw their hands up and say, 'I quit. I am not going to be involved in the struggle.' Despair is not an option.

"Number 2: Remember that Trump lost the popular vote by almost 3 million votes. He has a mandate for NOTHING. And on every major issue, the vast majority of the American people are on our side -- not his side. The truth is that Donald Trump has changed the rules about political engagement. We have never had a president who is a pathological liar. We have never had a pathological president who was so cynical about what he said during the campaign and what he did the day after he took office and our job is to respond accordingly.

"We can defeat the Trump agenda. We can create a progressive America if millions of people stand up and fight back and we are beginning to see that already. We are seeing it here at this incredible turnout. We saw it a month ago with the woman's march that brought out millions. We saw it today in 130 congressional offices. There were people outside those offices saying to the Republican members of Congress: 'Have the guts to meet with us! Do not repeal the Affordable Care Act!'

So, my message to you all is: We are the majority and our job, which is not an easy job, is to bring people together. To demand of your members of Congress, of your members of Senate, of your governor, to start listening to the people -- not to wealthy campaign contributors.

Kansas, I know that you are ground zero for trickle-down economics and I look forward to working with you in the years to come. If you transform Kansas, as I know you can, we are going to transform this country.

Thank you all very much."

Yeah, he should shut the fuck up...

[mac56]

266. How glad I am that we've gotten past the primaries once and for all.

Give it a break, DanTex.

[cer7711]

269. The most important thing is NOT party unity!

It's remembering you are the party of FDR and Paul Wellstone.

[mr_lebowski]

270. The phrases are 'Give IT a rest' ... or 'Give ME a break'

IRL I, for one, have never heard anyone say 'give it a break' ... just sayin'.

[Jamaal510]

271. K&R

[CaptainTruth]

272. I'll be honest, I have mixed feelings about Bernie.

I liked his vision & I voted for him in the primary. Then I dug deeper into his policies, & they just weren't that refined. Yes, they sounded good as campaign talking points, but we need more than that. For example, free college for all. Sounds great, but why should the kids of millionaires & billionaires (like Trump) get free college? They can afford to pay. I can't.

Before you flame me, I'm not anti-Bernie (I voted for him in my primary! then Hillary in the general) & know that I just want to see us Dems pull together for the greater good of our country. This is country before party.

Another admission: I've been around more decades than I care to admit. I was a Dem from the first time I ever voted. But, there was a time many years ago when I got so fed up with the Dem party that I registered Independent. Why? Because I felt like I was standing up & fighting for Dems (& our Constitution, with my own web site, untold hours researching & writing, etc) yet the party wasn't standing up & fighting for me. I didn't feel like I left the party, I felt like the party left me.

I say this because I DON'T WANT TO EVER SEE IT HAPPEN AGAIN. It's 100% not necessary. We don't need to go down that path. I am 100% back in this party & we Dems need to make it clear that we work for the benefit of ALL Americans.

*need craft beer*

[Kentonio]

283. On the issue of free college..

That was always such a red herring, I can't believe progressives got so hung up on it. It was a policy to ensure opportunity opened up for millions of young Americans to have a real chance at a promising future, and all anyone wanted to talk about was that millionaire's kids shouldn't get it? Really? That's the most important thing?

[forjusticethunders]

291. Free college as Bernie presented it would likely be a massive upward transfer of wealth.

Underserved minorities and other poor/working class people would pay into a system of free college that they'd disproportionately not be able to benefit from because of poor K-12 programs and other issues that inhibit K-12 academic achievement.

Unless you could somehow make it so NONE of the cost is borne by anyone below say, 50k per year.

I think Bernie could have appealed to more people by focusing on improving education at all levels, not just focusing heavily on free college which is kind of a "white millennial" issue. Hell, I think some kind of push for student loan relief could have gone farther, especially since a lot of people got screwed over by diploma mills.

[joet67]

278. I wish I could share my thoughts. I have learned quickly that I just cannot.

I am surprised to even see this kind of post. I've studied the rules, as best I could, and this one just seems to me to fly in the face of them.

Let's all come together, everyone. We have to unite to defeat, especially in this most unique political climate. In addition, we have a 2018 campaign which basically is underway as we speak.

[compsports]

280. Actually

Actually, the 2017 NJ and VA state elections come before 2018. All jokes aside, I want to remind folks not to forget about them since obviously fighting back against Trump starts with these elections.

And that is why I say as someone who supported Bernie in the primary that we need to unite yesterday. There is no time to waste.

[Trumpocalypse]

282. They should listen to Bernie, when he becomes a Democrat

And not before.

[Javaman]

286. hit and run post. meh. nt

[Blue_Tires]

292. +1000

[liberalnarb]

297. I was devastated when I found out Ellison wouldn't be DNC chair.

I'm very happy that Mr. Perez realized that it would be best for the party if he brought Keith on board. He made me optimistic about our party's future, not so much the country's.

[Gore1FL]

302. Nevertheless he persisted... nt

[kstewart33]

304. As long as Bernie refuses to join the party, he has no dog in this hunt.

Tired of his arrogance, insisting on influencing the party, running his own candidate, without joining the party.

Until he joins, I'll pass on listening to his party-influencing comments.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

308. Isn't it better to have as many people in the tent pissing out...

Isn't it better to have as many people in the tent pissing out than outside the tent pissing in?

A tip of the hat to Lyndon Johnson.

[FreeStateDemocrat]

311. How's working with the asshole-in-chief panning out Bern???

[hughee99]

322. It must have been because of all the campaigning he did for her in the general election...

if he was any good at campaigning, he would have won the primary, right?

[Gothmog]

329. I agree

[NWCorona]

341. The party has been split into a multiple factions and there won't be any healing for a while

[DanTex]

343. Why not? What is the point of not healing?

[NWCorona]

344. I would love to heal. I've tried on this board but I just think we aren't ready yet

That's just my two cents.