Why isn't shooting 16 people in a nightclub in itself a sign of terrorism?

[pnwmom]

I don't get why they are saying there is "no sign of terrorism." The word "terrorism" isn't synonymous with "radical Islamic terrorism." There are Christian terrorists, political terrorists, and people who are just general haters.

But it sure would terrify me if I thought that someone might come to a nearby public place and just start shooting.

[uppityperson]

1. This now seems to have been between a few people vs trying to cause wider reaction. Still terrifying

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39397938

A "dispute" between several men escalated into a gunfight in the crowded venue, Police Chief Eliot Isaac said.

[pnwmom]

3. Interesting. This is the first report I've seen that say there were several shooters and guns. n/t

[mikeysnot]

2. Was the shooter a

wrong wing white guy?

[Doreen]

6. I saw the post and the first thing I thought was "they are probably white."

[Ace Rothstein]

16. Why would you think they are white?

This appears to be an African American nightclub.

[WePurrsevere]

4. It never made sense to me because...

The very definition of terrorism is:

noun
1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.
2. the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.
3. a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government

And there's zero mention of race, a specific religion, etc. Trying to narrow the definition down to only one, religion in this case, seems to me to be more a tool of propaganda, not a tool of truth.

[CincyDem]

5. Probably because when this is all done, they'll conclude it wasn't premeditated.

IMHO, this stretch of town has always been a little rough. Industrial with some bars and clubs. It's not the first time that a fight in one of those places has escalated into gunshots. Usually it's one or two shots fired and nobody gets hurt. Sometimes someone catches a round in the butt. Sometimes more than a few someones. This time, one was fatal.

This isn't terrorism. This is America. When the day is done, we'll probably learn that it was 2-3 people shooting at each other over a spilt drink, a crosswise look from an ex-girlfriend, a debt not paid, an insult about someone's car or a battle over some corner. Those are the things that get most American's shot. Not "terrorists" from countries we don't like with religions we don't understand.

I'm ready to be wrong about this but my bet is that it's going to be some local guys who have been arguing about something for months if not years and they ended up in the same place at the same time with liquor, guys, and testosterone.

[FakeNoose]

13. Carrying a gun is premeditation

... even if the guy didn't intend to use it, he still had it on him.

Then he used it.

[Marengo]

22. Right down the street from the Hitching Post...some of the best fried chicken in the tri-state area

In my opinion anyway

[shraby]

7. I haven't read anything about it yet, but was it a case of the "good guys with guns" "saving"

people from harm and in the process getting many more shot?

[pnwmom]

10. That's what I'm wondering. They think they're going to be a good guy shooting back

but as far as the police are concerned, they're just one of the shooters.

[salin]

8. 2 words: Gun Culture (or 1 anacronym NRA)

but you know this Rhetorical questions are so useless in this era of reactionary right irony to which they, themselves are oblivious.

[hack89]

18. Or Criminal Culture

I would bet on the latter.

[MicaelS]

9. Because Terrorism has a political motive.

What is the political motive here? If there isn't one, it is not Terrorism.

[pnwmom]

11. What was the political motive in the Orlando shooting? Wasn't that terrorism against gay people? nt

[oberliner]

19. The Orlando terrorist told the negotiator that the US should stop bombing Syria

In a 9-1-1 call shortly after the shooting began, Mateen swore allegiance to the leader of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL), Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, and said the shooting was "triggered" by the U.S. killing of Abu Waheeb in Iraq the previous month. He later told a negotiator he was "out here right now" because of the American-led interventions in Iraq and in Syria, and that the negotiator should tell the United States to stop its bombing campaign in the Syrian civil war.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Orlando_nightclub_shooting

[pnwmom]

21. Okay. What if the Orlando shooter didn't have that political motive? What if he deliberately

went after gay people. Do you agree with the previous poster that such an act wouldn't constitute terrorism?

[oberliner]

24. Terrorism, by definition, is an act of violence with a political motive

At least that is my understanding of the term.

[pnwmom]

25. The FBI uses a broader definition:

Terrorism Research - What is Terrorism?
www.terrorism-research.com/

The FBI uses this definition: "Terrorism is the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives."

[oberliner]

30. Fair enough

By that definition, I would agree.

[madinmaryland]

26. Absolutely, it would be terrorism. Whether it be Radical Christianity or Radical Islam or

whatever "radical" label you want, it would still be terrorism.

[sinkingfeeling]

12. Simple, we're not in Europe.

See Newt Gingrich on Hannity March 22

[Yavin4]

14. This is racism in a nutshell. Using the criminal act of one member of a race or class to incriminate

the entire class. When a White gunman mass murders people, his actions are not used to tar all White people. However, whenever a person of the muslim faith does it, it's immediately an implication of an entire religion.

[stillcool]

15. Race is the defining factor...

In the word "terrorist", in this country. No doubt about it. If you're white, you just can't be a terrorist. You can be a lone wolf, a bad apple, mentally disturbed...Damn near anything but...

[oberliner]

20. Where do you get the idea that the gunman was white?

Seems unlikely.

[stillcool]

36. I have no idea....except

He's not labeled as a terrorist

[oberliner]

40. Based on what I know about the club and the location

I would say the odds are that the shooter was not white.

[cwydro]

23. It seems very unlikely this was a white gunman.

Would you care to reconsider your post?

[pnwmom]

31. Is that your guess or do you have a link for that? I haven't seen anything about the shooters

except there appear to have been more than one.

[stillcool]

37. No...What's objectionable?

That terrorists are not white?

[madinmaryland]

27. Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols are/were terrorists. nt

[Ace Rothstein]

17. But this probably wasn't a white gunman.

[pnwmom]

32. The reports I've seen say there were more than one, but don't specify race.

What have you read?

[Snackshack]

28. This is a crime.

Just like any other act of violence done by a human to another human.

[doc03]

29. It depends on who the shooter is nt

[melman]

33. This looks like a gang shooting

Do you want all gang members classed as terrorists? Somehow I doubt that you do.

[pnwmom]

34. The first reports said there was a single shooter, which wouldn't imply a gang shooting. n/t

[Henry Krinkle]

35. Terrorism in this particular case was probably initiated by...

one terrorist looking at another terrorists girlfriend... a terrorist spilling his drink on another terrorist...
a terrorist 'dissing' another terrorist... a terrorist wearing the wrong clothing... etc.

[pnwmom]

39. Why were 16 people shot over some personal dis?

[cwydro]

41. "Several local men" were involved.

This is according to the chief of police.

Somebody felt "disrespected" and had to prove what a man he is.

Stupidity, not terrorism.

[frankieallen]

38. Was it politically motivated?

[Lee-Lee]

42. Terrorism is violence with a political or social motive

This shooting sounds a lot more like gang members or wannabe gang manners doing what they do.

Probably started over some insignificant slight or perceived slight that percolated and ended up with a shooting in a club.

I would be $100 it was a gun illegally carried and illegally obtained as well.

[pnwmom]

43. Yes, that info came out after I wrote this. At the time they were just saying it was a single

shooter and discounting terrorism without saying why.

[Demsrule86]

44. I live in Ohio this was bar fight...there were multiple shooters.

Kasich signed a bill allowing people to carry guns in bars...great idea liquor, and guns...of course they are not supposed to drink...who goes to a bar not to drink...this was a young crowd to...so you used to have fist fights but now thanks to the NRA and the GOP you have gun fights. I crawling out a bar after a fight began...only to see two blue legs...getting hauled down to the police station where they called my parents. I would have rather stayed at the jail! Now they have guns.

[Demsrule86]

45. It wasn't political. It was a bar fight. Terrorism has a political component...but it sure

is terrorizing.