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CurtEastPoint

(18,650 posts)
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 04:28 PM Jul 2012

Another FB thing going 'round. You're not a TRUE PATRIOT unless you stand/recite the pledge.

What horseshit. Pledging to the flag has ZERO to do with what kind of American you are. And yes, I DO fully support our men and women in uniform.

45 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Another FB thing going 'round. You're not a TRUE PATRIOT unless you stand/recite the pledge. (Original Post) CurtEastPoint Jul 2012 OP
Any of my FB friends post that, they'll get "de" friended. GoneOffShore Jul 2012 #1
+1,000,000,000 x 1,000,000,000 - n/t coalition_unwilling Jul 2012 #8
Same here. PlayDog Jul 2012 #30
If any of my FB friends post that, Art_from_Ark Jul 2012 #31
One of our secretaries has that posted on her wall. sinkingfeeling Jul 2012 #2
I agree atreides1 Jul 2012 #3
Not to mention... GoCubsGo Jul 2012 #4
Kick and recommended! KansDem Jul 2012 #6
Please go ahead and mention it ...along with... L0oniX Jul 2012 #33
Nothing like that attempt Sherman A1 Jul 2012 #5
Me, I prefer Samuel Johnson's take on the issue: "Patriotism is the coalition_unwilling Jul 2012 #7
I'm a vet, having served with the 2nd Inf Div and 101st Airborne, and I say Amen to that! demosincebirth Jul 2012 #13
Or Oscar Wilde ... A HERETIC I AM Jul 2012 #14
exceptions, exceptions..... dtom67 Jul 2012 #9
Yeah, the whole "*we* have patriotism, *they* just have nationalism" thing bugs me. (nt) Posteritatis Jul 2012 #42
We say the pledge in class every school day Nevernose Jul 2012 #10
Give that wiseass a commendation for critical thinking A HERETIC I AM Jul 2012 #22
Ha! (nt) Posteritatis Jul 2012 #41
having just finished reading a book about Nazi Germany in 1932-1933 DisgustipatedinCA Jul 2012 #11
The Pledge is fascist Ron Obvious Jul 2012 #12
I pledged allegiance to the Constitution when I was inducted into the military in the early '70s... Journeyman Jul 2012 #15
I'll use that response, if I may Red Mountain Jul 2012 #25
Welcome to DU, Red Mountain pinboy3niner Jul 2012 #35
I'm so tired of this shit Cali_Democrat Jul 2012 #16
Let me introduce you to my Dad, a Korean War Marine vet wounded in battle. Ikonoklast Jul 2012 #17
it has always seemed sorta golden calf to me dembotoz Jul 2012 #18
False patriotism...... Smilo Jul 2012 #19
What BS. The pledge is stupid, and not why soldiers died. Taverner Jul 2012 #20
WHICH soldiers died to protect our freedoms? A HERETIC I AM Jul 2012 #21
The ones in WWII Taverner Jul 2012 #43
I left FB two months ago.. We are Devo Jul 2012 #23
Kevin's (educated) response: kentauros Jul 2012 #24
Patriotism is for fools! ...see quotes below... L0oniX Jul 2012 #26
Sock em with this link JustAnotherGen Jul 2012 #27
Saying the pledge is fine, but it is literally the least you can do to be a good American bluestateguy Jul 2012 #28
Blech Solly Mack Jul 2012 #29
Yes right on. How many congressmen or senators who stand up and say the pledge actual southernyankeebelle Jul 2012 #32
In keeping with "bully" patriotism ladym55 Jul 2012 #34
Classic fake patriotism. Fuck "the Pledge." DirkGently Jul 2012 #36
Patriotism is not quaker bill Jul 2012 #37
Just tell them the pledge was written by a socialist. NYC Liberal Jul 2012 #38
Anyone who posts this kind of thing... RedSpartan Jul 2012 #39
90 percent of the people liking that page NoGOPZone Jul 2012 #40
I'd certainly hate for that Marine to have lost his legs for nothing. sadbear Jul 2012 #44
I gave up on "patriotism" when asked me to go to Vietnam and kill people I didn't know, Tierra_y_Libertad Jul 2012 #45

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
31. If any of my FB friends post that,
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 07:27 PM
Jul 2012

I'll remind them how they always mumbled their way through it in school

GoCubsGo

(32,086 posts)
4. Not to mention...
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 04:32 PM
Jul 2012

That Marine very likely did not lose his legs defending anyone's right to not recite any pledge. I don't know of any wars fought in my lifetime that were fought to protect any of our rights. Vietnam wasn't. Nor, was the Gulf War, and certainly not the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.

KansDem

(28,498 posts)
6. Kick and recommended!
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 04:38 PM
Jul 2012

All of our "wars" since Korea had been for empire. I don't know of a single one where my "rights" or "freedom" were threatened.

The teacher should be introducing the Marine to Big Corps...

 

L0oniX

(31,493 posts)
33. Please go ahead and mention it ...along with...
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 07:41 PM
Jul 2012

that those same wars did not make us anymore free than we are right now and in fact took away some of our freedoms and rights.

dtom67

(634 posts)
9. exceptions, exceptions.....
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 04:42 PM
Jul 2012

Of course, if someone who posted this saw young ( Vietnamese, Chinese, Arab, etc. ) children in another country pledging allegiance to the State, they would call it brainwashing propaganda. Ask you friends.

Tell you the truth, though. I don't see it as a big deal either way. I'd pledge right now if it was needed, but I'm still an American whether I make a pledge or not.

This is a non-issue meant to distract us from the Right wings 1% agenda.

Don't waste too much time on it.

Nevernose

(13,081 posts)
10. We say the pledge in class every school day
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 04:42 PM
Jul 2012

And every single morning, without fail, some wiseass will finish it with something to the effect of "Wow, a minute ago I really hated America and wasn't loyal at all, but now I feel patriotic again. I hope we can recite the same meaningless words without thinking again tomorrow!"

I teach juniors and seniors; they're pretty jaded.

 

Ron Obvious

(6,261 posts)
12. The Pledge is fascist
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 04:46 PM
Jul 2012

Making schoolchildren rote-memorise and recite a pledge to the state which uses words they likely do not even comprehend is fascist. I've often been surprised that even many liberal Americans can't see that.

Therefore it's no surprise to see the issue conflated with military worship in a cartoon.

Journeyman

(15,036 posts)
15. I pledged allegiance to the Constitution when I was inducted into the military in the early '70s...
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 04:48 PM
Jul 2012

I haven't repeated the pledge since, and I've no intention of ever repeating it.

The way I figure it, once you pledge yourself to something, if you truly mean it, you need never do it again. In fact, to do so -- to engage in a "doctrine of continual reaffirmation" -- makes a mockery of the original vow, as only a meaningless pledge needs constant updating. I affirmed my commitment to the Constitution as a young man. If I ever change my mind, I'll renounce my pledge. Until then, I consider it my word and my bond, freely given. Any attempt to make me renew it simply insults me and casts aspersions on my honor.

As for those who insist it should be recited on multiple occasions, who would prefer to see it rendered meaningless through reduction to nothing more than a rote recitation, I often wonder, if they can't trust me to keep a pledge quietly, what's my mumbling it going to mean?

Perhaps we should just reduce it to a “Reader’s Digest” version: “I pledge allegiance to liberty and justice for all.” Short and to the point, non-controversial, useful for all peoples on the planet.

 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
16. I'm so tired of this shit
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 04:50 PM
Jul 2012

As if we attacked Iraq and Afghanistan in order to defend our "freedom" and our right to stand up and say the pledge of allegiance.

Bullshit.

Ikonoklast

(23,973 posts)
17. Let me introduce you to my Dad, a Korean War Marine vet wounded in battle.
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 04:59 PM
Jul 2012

He'd tell that teacher to stuff it, that kid sitting down has every right to do so without being shamed in front of his peers by a person that never wore the uniform, heard a shot fired in anger, or was sent to kill foreigners for The Empire.

My father told me when I was thinking about enlisting in the Corps that he would disown me.

dembotoz

(16,808 posts)
18. it has always seemed sorta golden calf to me
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 05:04 PM
Jul 2012

pledge, flag pins
over the top partriotic dirvel......

reminds me of the movie the ten commandmenets

Smilo

(1,944 posts)
19. False patriotism......
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 06:28 PM
Jul 2012

but it makes them feel so warm inside - which we know its because they are full of shit.

 

Taverner

(55,476 posts)
20. What BS. The pledge is stupid, and not why soldiers died.
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 06:33 PM
Jul 2012

The pledge is meaningless rah rah bullshit, and our soldiers died to protect our freedoms not the fucking pledge

A HERETIC I AM

(24,370 posts)
21. WHICH soldiers died to protect our freedoms?
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 07:07 PM
Jul 2012

As mentioned above, it's been a long damned time since any American soldier fought for freedom for or in this country. Last time was 14 years before I was born.

 

L0oniX

(31,493 posts)
26. Patriotism is for fools! ...see quotes below...
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 07:20 PM
Jul 2012

Never was a patriot yet, but was a fool. – John Dryden

A patriot is a fool in eve’ry age. – Alexander Pope.

Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel. – Samuel Johnson

In Dr. Johnson’s famous dictionary, patriotism is defined as the last resort of a scoundrel. With all due respect to an enlightened but inferior lexicographer, I beg to submit that it is the first. – Ambrose Bierce

Patriotism is as fierce as a fever, pitiless as the grave, blind as a stone, and irrational as a headless hen. – Ambrose Bierce

That pernicious sentiment, “Our country, right or wrong.” – James Russell Lowell

“My country right or wrong” is a thing that no patriot would think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying, “My mother drunk or sober.” – G. K. Chesterton

Patriotism which has the quality of intoxication is a danger not only to its native land but to the world, and “My country never wrong” is an even more dangerous maxim than “My country, right or wrong.” – Bertrand Russell

Patrioism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it. – George Bernard Shaw

Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious. – George Bernard Shaw

You’ll never have a quiet world till you knock the patriotism out of the human race. – George Bernard Shaw

Patriotism is a pernicious, psychopathic form of idiocy. – George Bernard Shaw

Patriotism is an ephemeral motive that scarcely ever outlasts the particular threat to society that aroused it. – Denis Diderot

To me, it seems a dreadful indignity to have a soul controlled by geography. – George Santayana

The Athenian democracy suffered much from that narrowness of patriotism which is the ruin of all nations. – H.G. Wells

Nationalism is our form of incest, is our idolatry, is our insanity. “Patriotism” is its cult. . . . Just as love for one individual which excludes the love for others is not love, love for one’s country which is not part of one’s love for humanity is not love, but idolatrous worship. – Erich Fromm

One of the great attractions of patriotism–it fulfills our worst wishes. In the person of our nation we are able, vicariously, to bully and cheat, Bully and cheat, what’s more, with a feeling that we are profoundly virtuous. – Aldous Huxley

Many studies have discovered a close link between prejudice and “patriotism” . . . Extreme bigots are almost always super-patriots – Gordon Allport

It seems like the less a statesman amounts to, the more he loves the flag. – Elbert Hubband

Patriotism varies, from a noble devotion to a moral lunacy. – William Inge

Every miserable fool who has nothing at all of which he can be proud, adopts, as a last resource, pride in the nation to which he belongs; he is ready and glad to defend all its faults and follies tooth and nail, thus reimbursing himself for his own inferiority. – Arthur Schopenhauer

Patriotism is the passion of fools and the most foolish of passions. – Arthur Schopenhauer

Patriotism corrupts history. – Goethe

Into the cultural and technological system of the modern world, the patriotic spirit fits like dust in the eyes and sand in the bearings. Its net contribution to the outcome is obscuration, distrust, and retardation at every point where it touches the fortunes of modern mankind. – Thorstein Veblen

The standardization of mass-production carries with it a tendency to standardize a mass-mind, producing a willing conformity, not merely to common ways of living, but to common ways of thinking and common valuations. The worst defect of patriotism is its tendency to foster and impose this common mind, and so to stifle the innumerable germs of liberty. – J.A. Hobson

2. Patriotism and War:

At the bottom of all patriotism is war: that is why I am no patriot. – Jules Renard

No other factor in history, not even religion, has produced so many wars as has the clash of national egotisms sanctified by the name of patriotism. – Preserved Smith

Naturally the common people don’t want war . . . Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders . . . All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism. – Hermann Goering.


3. Patriotism and Religion:

Patriotism is a kind of religion; it is the egg from which wars are hatched. – Guy de Maupassant

God and Country are an unbeatable team; they break all records for oppression and bloodshed. – Luis Buñuel

To be patriotic, hate all nations but your own; to be religious, all sects but your own; to be moral, all pretenses but your own. – Lionel Strachey

When a dog barks at the moon, then it is religion; but when he barks at strangers, it is patriotism! – David Starr Jordan

4. The American Syndrome:

If you have a weak candidate and a weak platform, wrap yourself up in the American flag and talk about the Constitution. – Matt Quay

How much longer are we going to think it necessary to be “American” before (or in contradistinction to) being cultivated, being enlightened, being humane, & having the same intellectual discipline as other civilized countries? It is really too easy a disguise for our shortcomings to dress them up as a form of patriotism. – Edith Wharton

The 100 percent American is 99 percent an idiot. – George Bernard Shaw

Treason is in the air around us everywhere. It goes by the name of patriotism. – Thomas Corwin

bluestateguy

(44,173 posts)
28. Saying the pledge is fine, but it is literally the least you can do to be a good American
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 07:24 PM
Jul 2012

One thing (among others) that comes to mind, is paying your taxes and doing so without bitching and complaining about it.

 

southernyankeebelle

(11,304 posts)
32. Yes right on. How many congressmen or senators who stand up and say the pledge actual
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 07:41 PM
Jul 2012

served in any military armed forces? Not many for sure. At least not any of the leaders in the senator or house.

ladym55

(2,577 posts)
34. In keeping with "bully" patriotism
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 07:42 PM
Jul 2012

I was informed in worship not long ago that if I could read, I should thank a soldier. (Well, my German teacher was an army vet, but I'm guessing that's not what the lay leader meant.)

Our incessant flag waving faux patriotism gets on my last nerve. The people yapping about "under God" don't realize it showed up in the 1950s (we managed to bumble along just FINE without that phrase up to that point).

Perhaps we should ALL spend some time studying the documents used to found our country and contemplate what exactly they entail. Maybe we should worry less about who is a patriot and more about who is hungry and homeless and in need of health care.

DirkGently

(12,151 posts)
36. Classic fake patriotism. Fuck "the Pledge."
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 07:45 PM
Jul 2012

These are the same dingbats who think you're a bad American if don't put your hand over your heart during the Star Spangled Banner.

No one should pledge allegiance to a symbol. How about pledging allegiance to the common good or your fellow citizens, you fascist idiots?

quaker bill

(8,224 posts)
37. Patriotism is not
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 07:49 PM
Jul 2012

pledges

yellow ribbon car magnets

displaying flags

various other signs, symbols, and rituals...



If it was anything meaningful at all, it would start by being about not having homeless vets. It might go from there to not having homeless at all. Actual patriotism is really giving a damn about the people who live here and being willing to sacrifice a bit to improve their condition.

RedSpartan

(1,693 posts)
39. Anyone who posts this kind of thing...
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 08:58 PM
Jul 2012

I tell to go to Wikipedia and look up Francis Bellamy, the socialist (*shudder*) who created the Pledge:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Bellamy

AND, more importantly, the original means by which one was supposed to pledge, the "Bellamy Salute:"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute

Makes you view it in a whole new light.

NoGOPZone

(2,971 posts)
40. 90 percent of the people liking that page
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 09:15 PM
Jul 2012

didn't bother standing and saying the pledge when they were in school.

sadbear

(4,340 posts)
44. I'd certainly hate for that Marine to have lost his legs for nothing.
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 09:28 PM
Jul 2012

What good are rights if no one exercises them?

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
45. I gave up on "patriotism" when asked me to go to Vietnam and kill people I didn't know,
Mon Jul 2, 2012, 09:28 PM
Jul 2012

had nothing against, and might even have liked, so LBJ could strut his "patriotism".

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