General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAnother FB thing going 'round. You're not a TRUE PATRIOT unless you stand/recite the pledge.
What horseshit. Pledging to the flag has ZERO to do with what kind of American you are. And yes, I DO fully support our men and women in uniform.
GoneOffShore
(17,340 posts)coalition_unwilling
(14,180 posts)PlayDog
(2 posts)Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)I'll remind them how they always mumbled their way through it in school
sinkingfeeling
(51,460 posts)atreides1
(16,079 posts)It is horseshit!
GoCubsGo
(32,086 posts)That Marine very likely did not lose his legs defending anyone's right to not recite any pledge. I don't know of any wars fought in my lifetime that were fought to protect any of our rights. Vietnam wasn't. Nor, was the Gulf War, and certainly not the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.
KansDem
(28,498 posts)All of our "wars" since Korea had been for empire. I don't know of a single one where my "rights" or "freedom" were threatened.
The teacher should be introducing the Marine to Big Corps...
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)that those same wars did not make us anymore free than we are right now and in fact took away some of our freedoms and rights.
Sherman A1
(38,958 posts)at a good old guilt trip.
coalition_unwilling
(14,180 posts)last refuge of a scoundrel."
demosincebirth
(12,540 posts)A HERETIC I AM
(24,370 posts)"Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious"
dtom67
(634 posts)Of course, if someone who posted this saw young ( Vietnamese, Chinese, Arab, etc. ) children in another country pledging allegiance to the State, they would call it brainwashing propaganda. Ask you friends.
Tell you the truth, though. I don't see it as a big deal either way. I'd pledge right now if it was needed, but I'm still an American whether I make a pledge or not.
This is a non-issue meant to distract us from the Right wings 1% agenda.
Don't waste too much time on it.
Posteritatis
(18,807 posts)Nevernose
(13,081 posts)And every single morning, without fail, some wiseass will finish it with something to the effect of "Wow, a minute ago I really hated America and wasn't loyal at all, but now I feel patriotic again. I hope we can recite the same meaningless words without thinking again tomorrow!"
I teach juniors and seniors; they're pretty jaded.
A HERETIC I AM
(24,370 posts)Posteritatis
(18,807 posts)DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)I'm not real down with loyalty oaths.
Ron Obvious
(6,261 posts)Making schoolchildren rote-memorise and recite a pledge to the state which uses words they likely do not even comprehend is fascist. I've often been surprised that even many liberal Americans can't see that.
Therefore it's no surprise to see the issue conflated with military worship in a cartoon.
Journeyman
(15,036 posts)I haven't repeated the pledge since, and I've no intention of ever repeating it.
The way I figure it, once you pledge yourself to something, if you truly mean it, you need never do it again. In fact, to do so -- to engage in a "doctrine of continual reaffirmation" -- makes a mockery of the original vow, as only a meaningless pledge needs constant updating. I affirmed my commitment to the Constitution as a young man. If I ever change my mind, I'll renounce my pledge. Until then, I consider it my word and my bond, freely given. Any attempt to make me renew it simply insults me and casts aspersions on my honor.
As for those who insist it should be recited on multiple occasions, who would prefer to see it rendered meaningless through reduction to nothing more than a rote recitation, I often wonder, if they can't trust me to keep a pledge quietly, what's my mumbling it going to mean?
Perhaps we should just reduce it to a Readers Digest version: I pledge allegiance to liberty and justice for all. Short and to the point, non-controversial, useful for all peoples on the planet.
Red Mountain
(1,735 posts)Sums up what has been rattling around in my head a long time.
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)We can get a little rowdy at times, but you'll get used to it.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)As if we attacked Iraq and Afghanistan in order to defend our "freedom" and our right to stand up and say the pledge of allegiance.
Bullshit.
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)He'd tell that teacher to stuff it, that kid sitting down has every right to do so without being shamed in front of his peers by a person that never wore the uniform, heard a shot fired in anger, or was sent to kill foreigners for The Empire.
My father told me when I was thinking about enlisting in the Corps that he would disown me.
dembotoz
(16,808 posts)pledge, flag pins
over the top partriotic dirvel......
reminds me of the movie the ten commandmenets
Smilo
(1,944 posts)but it makes them feel so warm inside - which we know its because they are full of shit.
Taverner
(55,476 posts)The pledge is meaningless rah rah bullshit, and our soldiers died to protect our freedoms not the fucking pledge
A HERETIC I AM
(24,370 posts)As mentioned above, it's been a long damned time since any American soldier fought for freedom for or in this country. Last time was 14 years before I was born.
Taverner
(55,476 posts)Nowdays, not so much...
We are Devo
(193 posts)I sooo don't miss this shit.
kentauros
(29,414 posts)"You were in World War II?"
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Never was a patriot yet, but was a fool. John Dryden
A patriot is a fool in every age. Alexander Pope.
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel. Samuel Johnson
In Dr. Johnsons famous dictionary, patriotism is defined as the last resort of a scoundrel. With all due respect to an enlightened but inferior lexicographer, I beg to submit that it is the first. Ambrose Bierce
Patriotism is as fierce as a fever, pitiless as the grave, blind as a stone, and irrational as a headless hen. Ambrose Bierce
That pernicious sentiment, Our country, right or wrong. James Russell Lowell
My country right or wrong is a thing that no patriot would think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying, My mother drunk or sober. G. K. Chesterton
Patriotism which has the quality of intoxication is a danger not only to its native land but to the world, and My country never wrong is an even more dangerous maxim than My country, right or wrong. Bertrand Russell
Patrioism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it. George Bernard Shaw
Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious. George Bernard Shaw
Youll never have a quiet world till you knock the patriotism out of the human race. George Bernard Shaw
Patriotism is a pernicious, psychopathic form of idiocy. George Bernard Shaw
Patriotism is an ephemeral motive that scarcely ever outlasts the particular threat to society that aroused it. Denis Diderot
To me, it seems a dreadful indignity to have a soul controlled by geography. George Santayana
The Athenian democracy suffered much from that narrowness of patriotism which is the ruin of all nations. H.G. Wells
Nationalism is our form of incest, is our idolatry, is our insanity. Patriotism is its cult. . . . Just as love for one individual which excludes the love for others is not love, love for ones country which is not part of ones love for humanity is not love, but idolatrous worship. Erich Fromm
One of the great attractions of patriotismit fulfills our worst wishes. In the person of our nation we are able, vicariously, to bully and cheat, Bully and cheat, whats more, with a feeling that we are profoundly virtuous. Aldous Huxley
Many studies have discovered a close link between prejudice and patriotism . . . Extreme bigots are almost always super-patriots Gordon Allport
It seems like the less a statesman amounts to, the more he loves the flag. Elbert Hubband
Patriotism varies, from a noble devotion to a moral lunacy. William Inge
Every miserable fool who has nothing at all of which he can be proud, adopts, as a last resource, pride in the nation to which he belongs; he is ready and glad to defend all its faults and follies tooth and nail, thus reimbursing himself for his own inferiority. Arthur Schopenhauer
Patriotism is the passion of fools and the most foolish of passions. Arthur Schopenhauer
Patriotism corrupts history. Goethe
Into the cultural and technological system of the modern world, the patriotic spirit fits like dust in the eyes and sand in the bearings. Its net contribution to the outcome is obscuration, distrust, and retardation at every point where it touches the fortunes of modern mankind. Thorstein Veblen
The standardization of mass-production carries with it a tendency to standardize a mass-mind, producing a willing conformity, not merely to common ways of living, but to common ways of thinking and common valuations. The worst defect of patriotism is its tendency to foster and impose this common mind, and so to stifle the innumerable germs of liberty. J.A. Hobson
2. Patriotism and War:
At the bottom of all patriotism is war: that is why I am no patriot. Jules Renard
No other factor in history, not even religion, has produced so many wars as has the clash of national egotisms sanctified by the name of patriotism. Preserved Smith
Naturally the common people dont want war . . . Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders . . . All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism. Hermann Goering.
3. Patriotism and Religion:
Patriotism is a kind of religion; it is the egg from which wars are hatched. Guy de Maupassant
God and Country are an unbeatable team; they break all records for oppression and bloodshed. Luis Buñuel
To be patriotic, hate all nations but your own; to be religious, all sects but your own; to be moral, all pretenses but your own. Lionel Strachey
When a dog barks at the moon, then it is religion; but when he barks at strangers, it is patriotism! David Starr Jordan
4. The American Syndrome:
If you have a weak candidate and a weak platform, wrap yourself up in the American flag and talk about the Constitution. Matt Quay
How much longer are we going to think it necessary to be American before (or in contradistinction to) being cultivated, being enlightened, being humane, & having the same intellectual discipline as other civilized countries? It is really too easy a disguise for our shortcomings to dress them up as a form of patriotism. Edith Wharton
The 100 percent American is 99 percent an idiot. George Bernard Shaw
Treason is in the air around us everywhere. It goes by the name of patriotism. Thomas Corwin
JustAnotherGen
(31,828 posts)bluestateguy
(44,173 posts)One thing (among others) that comes to mind, is paying your taxes and doing so without bitching and complaining about it.
Solly Mack
(90,773 posts)southernyankeebelle
(11,304 posts)served in any military armed forces? Not many for sure. At least not any of the leaders in the senator or house.
ladym55
(2,577 posts)I was informed in worship not long ago that if I could read, I should thank a soldier. (Well, my German teacher was an army vet, but I'm guessing that's not what the lay leader meant.)
Our incessant flag waving faux patriotism gets on my last nerve. The people yapping about "under God" don't realize it showed up in the 1950s (we managed to bumble along just FINE without that phrase up to that point).
Perhaps we should ALL spend some time studying the documents used to found our country and contemplate what exactly they entail. Maybe we should worry less about who is a patriot and more about who is hungry and homeless and in need of health care.
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)These are the same dingbats who think you're a bad American if don't put your hand over your heart during the Star Spangled Banner.
No one should pledge allegiance to a symbol. How about pledging allegiance to the common good or your fellow citizens, you fascist idiots?
quaker bill
(8,224 posts)pledges
yellow ribbon car magnets
displaying flags
various other signs, symbols, and rituals...
If it was anything meaningful at all, it would start by being about not having homeless vets. It might go from there to not having homeless at all. Actual patriotism is really giving a damn about the people who live here and being willing to sacrifice a bit to improve their condition.
NYC Liberal
(20,136 posts)RedSpartan
(1,693 posts)I tell to go to Wikipedia and look up Francis Bellamy, the socialist (*shudder*) who created the Pledge:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Bellamy
AND, more importantly, the original means by which one was supposed to pledge, the "Bellamy Salute:"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute
Makes you view it in a whole new light.
NoGOPZone
(2,971 posts)didn't bother standing and saying the pledge when they were in school.
sadbear
(4,340 posts)What good are rights if no one exercises them?
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)had nothing against, and might even have liked, so LBJ could strut his "patriotism".