POLICE: VEGAS MOM, SON SEARCHED FOR VEHICLE BEFORE SHOOTING

[Omaha Steve]

Source: AP

LAS VEGAS (AP) -- A Las Vegas mother of four killed in a road rage shooting last week got in her car with her adult son and his gun and drove around their neighborhood looking for the assailant who ended up shooting her in a residential cul-de-sac, police said Tuesday.

In a change from earlier accounts, police Lt. Ray Steiber said 44-year-old Tammy Meyers had her teenage daughter run in the house to fetch her armed son, who then went with her as she drove to find the driver who had earlier stopped his car in front of hers, got out and approached her with angry words.

"Mrs. Meyers is scared, but she's upset," Steiber said, adding that the intent appeared to be "so they can find who frightened them on the roadway."

"I would never say that anybody went looking for trouble," Steiber said when asked to characterize Tammy Meyers' five-to-10 minute drive through the neighborhood. He said she found, and for a time followed, the vehicle she had apparently been looking for.

FULL story at link.


Robert Meyers speaks to media outside his house, Friday, Feb. 13, 2015 in Las Vegas. His wife Tammy who was teaching her 14-year-old daughter to drive was shot in the head and was not expected to survive after an apparent road-rage attack by an angry driver who followed them to their Las Vegas home. (AP Photo/Kimberly Pierceall)

Read more: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_ROAD_RAGE_SHOOTING?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-02-18-03-25-11

[BeyondGeography]

1. Hey, we got a gun

What could possibly go wrong?

[Fred Sanders]

10. We gots guns and we gonna use them. Killing is SO much easier to settle scores when you have a gun.

[hack89]

2. Stupidity compounded. Nt

Last edited Wed Feb 18, 2015, 09:54 AM - Edit history (1)

[Hoppy]

3. O.K. Corral ain't got nothin' on these pilgrims.

Why I remember a couple of years ago, just like it was yesterday, Fella named Josie Wales on the tv. He was from up them hills and he didn't take no horsefeather from no one either. 'always say, 6 gun is an equlizer.

There was another guy too. Josie an this other guy, they looked like brothers -- television movie never did give his name -- but I remember he made some short fella the mayor of the town and the little fella and the man with no name didn't put up with no cayotee dung from any critter either. Cleaned up a whole town, they did.

The moral is that only morans take crap from other varmints.
Somebody pisses you off? Git your gun and go after 'em.

Well this mom and her son, they's gonna make a movie about them some day. You'll see 'em on TCM in a couple a years.

[Schema Thing]

6. just remember that in the *real* Wild West

People understood guns needed regulation - the Sheriff wouldn't let you carry a gun around in many towns.

[Sancho]

4. Here we go again...easy access to guns by people who should never have one.

People Control, Not Gun Control

This is my generic response to gun threads where people are shot and killed by the dumb or criminal possession of guns. For the record, I grew up in the South and on military bases. I was taught about firearms as a child, and I grew up hunting, was a member of the NRA, and I still own guns. In the 70’s, I dropped out of the NRA because they become more radical and less interested in safety and training. Some personal experiences where people I know were involved in shootings caused me to realize that anyone could obtain and posses a gun no matter how illogical it was for them to have a gun. Also, easy access to more powerful guns, guns in the hands of children, and guns that weren’t secured are out of control in our society. As such, here’s what I now think ought to be the requirements to possess a gun. I’m not debating the legal language, I just think it’s the reasonable way to stop the shootings. Notice, none of this restricts the type of guns sold. This is aimed at the people who shoot others, because it’s clear that they should never have had a gun.

1.) Anyone in possession of a gun (whether they own it or not) should have a regularly renewed license. If you want to call it a permit, certificate, or something else that's fine.
2.) To get a license, you should have a background check, and be examined by a professional for emotional and mental stability appropriate for gun possession. It might be appropriate to require that examination to be accompanied by references from family, friends, employers, etc. This check is not to subject you to a mental health diagnosis, just check on your superficial and apparent gun-worthyness.
3.) To get the license, you should be required to take a safety course and pass a test appropriate to the type of gun you want to use.
4.) To get a license, you should be over 21. Under 21, you could only use a gun under direct supervision of a licensed person and after obtaining a learner’s license. Your license might be restricted if you have children or criminals or other unsafe people living in your home. (If you want to argue 18 or 25 or some other age, fine. 21 makes sense to me.)
5.) If you possess a gun, you would have to carry a liability insurance policy specifically for gun ownership - and likely you would have to provide proof of appropriate storage, security, and whatever statistical reasons that emerge that would drive the costs and ability to get insurance.
6.) You could not purchase a gun or ammunition without a license, and purchases would have a waiting period.
7.) If you possess a gun without a license, you go to jail, the gun is impounded, and a judge will have to let you go (just like a DUI).
8.) No one should carry an unsecured gun (except in a locked case, unloaded) when outside of home. Guns should be secure when transporting to a shooting event without demonstrating a special need. Their license should indicate training and special circumstances beyond recreational shooting (security guard, etc.).
9.) If you buy, sell, give away, or inherit a gun, your license information should be recorded.
10.) If you accidentally discharge your gun, commit a crime, get referred by a mental health professional, are served a restraining order, etc., you should lose your license and guns until reinstated by a serious relicensing process.

Most of you know that a license is no big deal. Besides a driver’s license you need a license to fish, operate a boat, or many other activities. I realize these differ by state, but that is not a reason to let anyone without a bit of sense pack a semiautomatic weapon in public, on the roads, and in schools. I think we need to make it much harder for some people to have guns.

[phil89]

29. And people will definitely

Not break those rules, right?

[Sancho]

57. Of course they will break the rules...

but it will be much harder to possess a gun or ammo. That's the idea.

[mikeysnot]

38. Que the idiots that will claim none of this will work

.... sigh.

[onehandle]

5. Gun culture magic. nt

[Romeo.lima333]

7. guns .. the simple solution to all of life's problems

snark

[KG]

8. guns, guns, guns! wonderful guns!

[Coventina]

9. I find this really confusing.

If somebody hunts me down with a gun, and I use my own gun to defend myself, how does that make me the bad guy?

Isn't that what the "pro-gun" argument is about? Defending oneself from dangerous aggressors?

?????

[csziggy]

11. It's more complicated than that

As detailed in the article linked in the OP. It sounds as though the mother and the armed son were just trying to locate the car that had the earlier incident since it seems they returned home once they found it. But the car pulled up at their house as they got home and that was when the shooting started.

I wonder if the mother and son were just trying to get a tag number or locate a house where the car was and intended to call the police?

[Coventina]

16. OK, thanks for the clarification.

Bizarre and sad situation.

Sounds as if it were completely avoidable if everyone behaved like grown-ups.

[brush]

20. That's not what the story said

The road rage incident happened at the mother's house all right but the shooting didn't. After the road rage guy got out and yelled at the mom and daughter in their driveway, they drove off. The mom then sent her daughter into the house to get her armed son. They then went looking for the road rage car in the neighborhood.

Unfortunately they found them, followed them for a while and apparently cornered them in a cul-de-sac. That's where the shooting happened. Shots were fired from both cars and the mom was hit.

It's not clear who shot first but it appears the mom and son didn't expect the other car's occupants to have a gun.

Not smart, but the dumbest thing was following the car in the first place. Seems they went looking for trouble and found it.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

25. This story is so confusing ...

... and if what you say is true, they pulled a Zimmerman and went looking for trouble. Only this time, the victim (if true) had a gun, too.

[happyslug]

45. The story is only confusing, if you want the woman to be the aggressor

The woman did look for the car and found it. The woman did follow it for about five minutes, THEN SHE WENT HOME. She had her adult son with her and he was armed but NO REPORT THAT HE DID ANYTHING WITH THE PISTOL TILL SOMEONE ELSE OPENED FIRE. Thus the Woman had RETREATED (as that term is used in the law). The next fact we have is someone drove to HER HOME and started to open fire. That is simple. She was NO longer the aggressor (if she ever was) WAY before this shooting started. She and her son had retreated and only defended themselves when someone else opened fire.

Some people may not like how this story goes, but it sounds plausible to me.

[brush]

49. The corrected version of the story released by the police is not that clear

The story is not well written and is confusing but i stand corrected. It seems the mom was shot after her and her son followed the road rage car THEN drove back home and were confronted in her home's cul-de-sac then a shoot out occurred.

It's an incident that unfortunately happened after she followed the road rage car.

Leave things like this to the police.

[csziggy]

33. Here is the portion of the news story I attempted to paraphrase

From the news article linked in the OP:

In a change from earlier accounts, police Lt. Ray Steiber said 44-year-old Tammy Meyers had her teenage daughter run in the house to fetch her armed son, who then went with her as she drove to find the driver who had earlier stopped his car in front of hers, got out and approached her with angry words.

"Mrs. Meyers is scared, but she's upset," Steiber said, adding that the intent appeared to be "so they can find who frightened them on the roadway."

"I would never say that anybody went looking for trouble," Steiber said when asked to characterize Tammy Meyers' five-to-10 minute drive through the neighborhood. He said she found, and for a time followed, the vehicle she had apparently been looking for.

Tammy Meyers then drove home, Steiber said, where a vehicle described only as a four-door gray or silver sedan pulled up and someone inside opened fire.

Emphasis added by me.

No, Mrs. Meyers did not "corner{ed} them in a cul-de-sac" according to Lt. Ray Steiber in this article. The shooting was in a cul-de-sac, apparently where the Meyers live since Tammy Meyers had gone home after locating the car involved in the earlier incident.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

24. That was a really confusing article.

They could have worded it better, or maybe I'm just an idiot. :sigh:

[Tommy_Carcetti]

14. Why don't you ask Trayvon Martin?

Oh, wait. He was black. And unarmed. And ultimately dead.

Still, apparently he was the bad guy.

[phil89]

30. He was shown during the trial

to have initiated the attack on Zimmerman. Not the same situation.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

32. Well, that was the theory put forth by the defense, who ultimately won.

But you honestly believe that Trayvon doubled back and attacked someone--a complete stranger, no less--he had just spent considerable time and energy getting away from?

I've got a bridge to sell you.

[Taitertots]

59. The problem was that the prosecution didn't present an alternative narrative

What is your alternate narrative?

All the evidence suggests that he could have easily walked home during the time period in question.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

61. I can't speak for the prosecution and its strategy.

However, having followed the case very closely and being quite familiar with its facts, I've come up with a strong hypothesis as to what happened.

Trayvon began to run when Zimmerman (a complete stranger to him) got out of his car after having followed him closely in his car up to that point. Trayvon ultimately ran down into the alleyway (the same alleyway where he would ultimately be killed) between the townhouses in order to evade and hide from Zimmerman. While that would have seemingly placed him near the home where he had been staying, keep in mind it was night time, raining and the townhomes faced out from the alley way. So a person not regularly familiar with the neighborhood such as Trayvon probably wouldn't have been able to identify the specific townhome where he was staying from the back of the alleyway.

So at this point, I believe Trayyon--thinking he'd lost Zimmerman--starts to backtrack back up the alley so he could continue to the street side of the townhomes, where he could identify the home where he was staying.

And I believe Zimmerman did not immediately return to his car but instead kept snooping around to determine where Trayvon had left. Not having found Trayvon, he believed he had left the neighborhood entirely, so he slowly began to return to his car.

Unfortunately, as Trayvon is backtracking up the alleyway, he comes across Zimmerman returning to his car. This happens around the top of the alleyway (at the "T" as it was called). Trayvon still has no idea who Zimmerman was or why he was after him (as Zimmerman never identified himself to Trayvon).

Zimmerman is still of the belief that Trayvon is some sort of "fucking punk" "up to no good" and frustrated that "these assholes, they always get away", and knowing police were already on the way, decides to attempt to grab Trayvon in order to detain him until police arrive.

Trayvon naturally and instinctively attempts to fight off Zimmerman's attempt to grab and detain him. (Again, note he still has no idea as to who Zimmerman was or why he was after him). At some point in order to get Zimmerman off him, he makes contact to Zimmerman's nose, knocking Zimmerman to the ground.

The two continue to tussle on the ground. At this point, Zimmerman--already agitated, first from having a major argument with his wife earlier that day and now by this perceived "thug" supposedly causing problems in his neighborhood simply by his mere presence--figures the best way to stop Trayvon from resisting would be to pull his gun on him. However, this doesn't pacify Trayvon but only frightens him more--this strange man who had been stalking and chasing him and who attempted to grab him now had a gun pointed at him.

So Trayvon at this point desperately attempts to call for help. Zimmerman--who we all know now is incredibly impulsive and aggressive when his buttons are pushed--begins to panic, given that neighbors might not take kindly to the image of him pointing a gun at a kid screaming for help. The fight needed to stop immediately.

So Zimmerman pulls the trigger and shoots Trayvon, immediately silencing Trayvon's screams. He then pulls himself up and begins to concoct in his mind the self-defense story to the police he knows are already coming. Since Zimmerman still had no clue that Trayvon was a welcome guest in the neighborhood and was doing nothing more than innocently walking him from the store, he assumes he was a "thug" and that the police would take the word of the neighborhood watchman over someone he perceives as a "thug".

20-20 hindsight given Zimmerman's numerous brushes with the law subsequent to his trial, and new information about the state of Zimmerman's domestic life the night of the shooting, only bolsters this theory more. Although I had it pegged during the trial.

[Historic NY]

17. Looking for trouble, isn't defending themselves...

the victim took a "vigilante" stand when she and her armed son went out hunting for the other driver. Prior to that we had what maybe was a road rage incident. Common sense would have been to secure the plate number of the car and let the police handle her complaint....that doesn't appear to have happened.

[Coventina]

19. That's actually what I meant. The mother & son were the aggressors, hunting the other party with a

gun.

So why are the others considered the bad guys for defending themselves from a gun, with equal force?

But, it appears to be a bit more complicated than that, as described upthread.

No good guys in this scenario......

[davepc]

12. Go looking for trouble, you'll find it.

Glad that man was able to defend himself from the psychopaths who went looking to do him harm.

[happyslug]

21. By going BACK to their home and shooting them????

From the Article "Steiber" in the article refers to police Lt. Ray Steiber:

"I would never say that anybody went looking for trouble," Steiber said when asked to characterize Tammy Meyers' five-to-10 minute drive through the neighborhood. He said she found, and for a time followed, the vehicle she had apparently been looking for.

Tammy Meyers then drove home, Steiber said, where a vehicle described only as a four-door gray or silver sedan pulled up and someone inside opened fire.

In simple terms, the Mother had an altercation with someone driving a car. She went home dropped off her 14 year old daughter, picked up her adult son who took a REGISTERED pistol with him. They found the car, followed it for a few minutes AND THEN DROVE HOME. When they arrived at their home, the car they had been following, shows up and someone from inside that car opened fire.

I hate to say this, Police like license plate numbers and that is what I suspect the Mother went back to get. She and he son was NOT going to confront the person, just take his plate number. Once the plate number was obtained, the Mother and her son drove home. Thus the actual shooting occurred AFTER the Mother and son had returned home.

[hugo_from_TN]

26. So if they got the plate number why don't the police arrest the shooter?

[happyslug]

27. They have a description, but after the shooting he left

Thus you can NOT arrest someone who is NOT present.

[SwankyXomb]

34. If they weren't going to confront them, why did they take a gun?

Sounds to me like they were ready to commit murder themselves.

[happyslug]

41. Some people scare easily, thus want a gun

NO one is saying the gun obtained was used OTHER then after someone in the other car FOLLOWED then to their home and opened fire. This is not even a "Stand your ground"
case. i.e the Woman and her son HAD LEFT AND GONE HOME. The only shooting reported was at HER HOME, in a cul-de-sac.

I hate to say this, maybe the woman was right, she needed the gun, for someone else opened fire on her.

[HappyMe]

36. It sounds to me like they were more

than willing to indulge in a little confrontational justice. Why the hell else would you go get the son and the gun?

They were looking for trouble.

[happyslug]

46. There is no report of any confrontation except when her daughter was driving AND the shooting

As to the drive with her adult son who had a weapon, no report that they confronted the other side, just located his car and followed it for about five minutes. That is enough time to get a license plate number. That seems to be what the woman wanted, nothing more. I suspect something else is going on in that neighborhood for most people do not follow someone to their home and open fire. My money is on a drug deal this Woman interfered with by having her daughter practice driving at the school. That is speculation, but so is assuming the Woman wanted to do anything more then get a license number.

[HappyMe]

47. lol!

Please, stop with the wild speculation.

Instead of doing the adult thing when she first arrived at home by going inside, she got her other kid and a gun and left. She had no idea the other people were armed. She wanted a gun fight, she got one.

[frylock]

50. the entire family seems to be lacking in any common sense whatsoever..

from the young daughter reaching over to beep the horn, from the mom cruising the neighborhood in an attempt to track them down, and finally from the son who should have made an effort to calm his mother down, rather then grabbing his gun. a completely stupid and unavoidable tragedy.

[HappyMe]

52. Yeah, not much in the way

of thought going on there at all. It's sad to say, but I am figuring they will be headlines again some time.

[notadmblnd]

39. so she just wanted to look at it?

she went hunting for the car because she just wanted to see it one more time? Then went home and the guy whose car she wanted to look at followed her and shot her because she just looked at his car. Makes sense. NOT!

[happyslug]

40. Then you explain why she was stopped in HER driveway?

Sorry, you made not like the story, but it explains the known facts, including WHERE the shooting occurred.

[notadmblnd]

48. It's a poorly written story

I think you should explain it to me since you know all the facts.

Why would she need her son and a gun if she just wanted to innocently look at the car and go home? I think something happened between just looking and getting back home that someone is not explaining and I think you're upset because I pointed out that it makes no sense what-so-ever.

[frylock]

51. it wouldn't surprise me to learn that the son brandished his weapon

[deutsey]

53. FWIW, I also found it poorly written and confusing

I thought perhaps it was due to my busier-than-usual workload today, which may be a contributing factor, certainly.

But I also think the narrative is a bit disjointed.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

13. Idiocy all around. nt

[LeftinOH]

15. Conflict resolution: The American way!

...sponsored by the GOP and NRA.

[geomon666]

18. Shocking

[Hestia]

22. We have gone completely off the rails as a culture and society. How much further proof do you need?

It doesn't matter on the who, what, when, where and how of why we got here, but here we are. The true heroes of today are you and I and who elect to go to sleep and wake up to another day of this...what to call it...depravity?

Anyone who can get out, go. Believe me, I have been lightly haranguing (just slightly) that we should leave while we can and still don't have PTSD from living here. Europe needs the influx of people and you need to go while your education might actually be worth something. At least they are taking Global Warming seriously there.

Sorry for the hijack...

[Iggo]

23. "I would never say that anybody went looking for trouble..."

Yeah? Why not?

[Myrina]

28. Stand your ground goes mobile!

Oh goody. Now we'll all need armored cars so we don't get caught in some knucklehead's chase-and-shoot moment.

[still_one]

31. Of course she was looking for trouble. She went with her armed son looking for the

Guy

[villager]

35. So which one was the good guy with the gun that stopped the bad guy with the gun!?

Oh wait -- it wasn't stopped. Easy access to guns resulted in a dead mom.

[samsingh]

43. exactly - guns kill people

[Politicalboi]

37. Dumb asses with guns

I have no sympathy for either party. This IS what happens when every asshole is armed. This is what we call collateral damage.

[samsingh]

44. one of the gun lovers was going to get shot

[samsingh]

42. this is the tragic reality of guns

did you want to get into a gun fight? she put her son in danger as well.

[vkkv]

54. Where is the anti-TAX crowd?

Where is the anti-TAX crowd?

I want to know exactly how much in tax dollars someone's right to bear "ARMS" is COSTING ME.

How much are firearms costing us regarding police hours, gov't mental health care and therapy, prosecutor hours, government vehicles and insurance, gas, police health and injury paid leave, vehicle repairs, prison food, prison clothes, chains, water, court costs, judges salaries, district attorney pay, prison heat & electric, other court employees, jailer costs, court heating & electric, public defenders, hospitalization, welfare to victim's families, property liability insurance, coroner fees, cremation fees and other associated costs relating to gun crime??

I'm guessing the NRA isn't going to bring it up because the costs are way too much per person just so that some idiot can own an automatic or semi-automatic or repeating rounds weapon.

Call your Congressman and demand an economic study on the costs. DO IT.

Tell them to keep your tax dollars from covering the huge costs when some crazy gun owner loses it and shoots an assault weapon or handgun at someone.

[hamsterjill]

55. There's something wrong when a mother goes and gets her 22-year old son who has a gun.

Obviously, the events of this story are still unfolding and being learned so perhaps this is premature for me to be thinking as I am.

But what mother goes and gets her 22-year old, armed son to potentially engage with someone (i.e., the other driver) who she already knew was angry and volatile? There's something wrong with a parent putting a child, even a child that age, in a position of having to defend his mother. By introducing a gun into the equation, exactly what was she expecting the outcome was going to be?

Of course, in hindsight, we all wish she had just called the police once she was safely at home, and allowed them to conduct an investigation.

[Javaman]

56. funny thing about morons with guns...

they fail to understand that there are other morons with guns out there as well.

[City Lights]

58. What does Robert Meyers mean by this?

"There was mistakes made, like every one of us has made in our lives, but this particular mistake was made to keep a bigger mistake from happening," Robert Meyers said.

What bigger mistake was kept from happening by making the mistake his wife and son made?

[Dont call me Shirley]

60. She and her armed son became the aggressors when they got in the car to find the car and

driver.