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jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
Fri Mar 20, 2015, 03:56 PM Mar 2015

Autopsy suggests suicide in hanging of black man in Mississippi

Source: LA Times


Preliminary results from an autopsy on the body of Otis Byrd, whose body was found hanging from a tree in rural Mississippi, strongly suggest the death was a suicide rather than foul play, a federal law enforcement official said Friday.

...

Claiborne County Sheriff Marvin Lucas told the Los Angeles Times that while a bedsheet was wrapped around the man’s neck, there were no other visible signs of distress on the body. The man’s hands and feet were not tied or bound, his mouth was not gagged, there were no other outward signs of injuries.

...

The sheriff said the man, a riverboat employee, was last seen around March 2 when he and a family member visited a local casino. He said Byrd returned home with someone else, whom the sheriff identified as a friend.

Read more: http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-mississippi-hanging-20150320-story.html




Good that they're looking into this.
60 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Autopsy suggests suicide in hanging of black man in Mississippi (Original Post) jberryhill Mar 2015 OP
he could have been drugged Romeo.lima333 Mar 2015 #1
One might think toxicology would pick that up jberryhill Mar 2015 #2
Why does a toxicology report... NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #8
. jberryhill Mar 2015 #10
Thanks jberryhill. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #11
I also learned something new. Thank you! n/t Mugu Mar 2015 #17
wow that's on the net - no matter what the heck it is it's on the net Romeo.lima333 Mar 2015 #19
Tox reports take days to weeks to turn up Warpy Mar 2015 #27
Huh -- are you gleefully HOPING it's a hate crime?! n/t BP2 Mar 2015 #26
Huh? Sounds like you are HOPING Joe Chi Minh Mar 2015 #35
Really. You think? KamaAina Mar 2015 #3
I think it's good they are investigating it jberryhill Mar 2015 #5
This is a sad moment for his family, wish them well in the coming days. Thinkingabout Mar 2015 #4
I agree that it's good they are looking at it. MADem Mar 2015 #6
According to various studies, enlightenment Mar 2015 #58
That's a good point. MADem Mar 2015 #59
Can't argue that. enlightenment Mar 2015 #60
Convenient, especially since hanging from a tree is a black man's preferred method valerief Mar 2015 #7
Hanging is the second most common method of suicide hack89 Mar 2015 #12
Yet blacks (and hispanics, who are not a specific racial group) have the lowest suicide rate BumRushDaShow Mar 2015 #13
Right, which is why they mentioned the other factors Recursion Mar 2015 #30
So you don't think that someone who may have been bound BumRushDaShow Mar 2015 #36
Several points Recursion Mar 2015 #37
All your points are sound. romanic Mar 2015 #38
And addressing the points BumRushDaShow Mar 2015 #39
I completely grant your rebuttal points Recursion Mar 2015 #40
That's fine BumRushDaShow Mar 2015 #41
The state govt is investigating, the FBI is on the ground. Yo_Mama Mar 2015 #49
tragic Skittles Mar 2015 #9
or, coroner writes off another black murder mwrguy Mar 2015 #14
A black coroner and black sheriff in a county that's 85% African American? Recursion Mar 2015 #29
geeez,,,, Cryptoad Mar 2015 #15
not surprised in the least heaven05 Mar 2015 #16
Do you have some reason to think the finding is wrong? NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #18
there is nothing spectacular heaven05 Mar 2015 #45
If the hands had been 840high Mar 2015 #53
sure heaven05 Mar 2015 #54
You seem to favor only one outcome. Have a good day. 840high Mar 2015 #55
Suicide? Seriously? Fiendish Mar 2015 #20
Thank you for your thoughtful post, and welcome to DU! CaliforniaPeggy Mar 2015 #22
Thanks! Fiendish Mar 2015 #42
Glad to hear you're recovering! CaliforniaPeggy Mar 2015 #52
Welcome to DU. DamnYankeeInHouston Mar 2015 #23
Thank you! Glad to be here! Fiendish Mar 2015 #43
A stool won't work shaayecanaan Mar 2015 #31
Yeah, the sheets are important. Fiendish Mar 2015 #44
My First Thought Was What Was He Standing On DallasNE Mar 2015 #33
thanks for lucidness heaven05 Mar 2015 #46
Nothing excuses murder. Fiendish Mar 2015 #48
If he was murdered for ANY reason I hope they catch the perp! Yo_Mama Mar 2015 #50
Yeah, that's what I meant, as well. Fiendish Mar 2015 #51
Link for those who don't have LA Times subscription tomm2thumbs Mar 2015 #21
"preliminary" is operative word heaven05 Mar 2015 #47
Seriously? NOLALady Mar 2015 #24
While no death is good... awoke_in_2003 Mar 2015 #25
I think suicide may be it ripcord Mar 2015 #28
He'd been dead a while shaayecanaan Mar 2015 #32
from the sheriff shaayecanaan Mar 2015 #34
Reminds Me Of The KY Census Worker Found Hanging... Corey_Baker08 Mar 2015 #56
Except Josh Sparkman wasn't found "hanging" jberryhill Mar 2015 #57
 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
2. One might think toxicology would pick that up
Fri Mar 20, 2015, 04:02 PM
Mar 2015

...although it is probably early for a toxicology report.

NaturalHigh

(12,778 posts)
8. Why does a toxicology report...
Fri Mar 20, 2015, 04:44 PM
Mar 2015

take longer than an autopsy? I've never understood that. It seems like it would be a fairly simple test.

Warpy

(111,247 posts)
27. Tox reports take days to weeks to turn up
Fri Mar 20, 2015, 11:06 PM
Mar 2015

depending on how backed up the crime lab is.

I'd want to know if there was either a note or if his family and friends had noticed he was depressed.

Otherwise, I'll always be suspicious of this death.

Condolences to his friends and family, whether it's suicide or homicide, it is always hard to take.

Joe Chi Minh

(15,229 posts)
35. Huh? Sounds like you are HOPING
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 08:08 AM
Mar 2015

that the extraordinarily, wildly improbable possibility of a hate crime in a good ole Southern State of the US will be immediately rejected as ludicrous.

Oh. And welcome!

MADem

(135,425 posts)
6. I agree that it's good they are looking at it.
Fri Mar 20, 2015, 04:24 PM
Mar 2015

Hopefully it has nothing to do with the victim he murdered back in 1980 during that robbery.

His face looks sad in the photo at the link.

If they found a GBCW note it would be more apparent. And they haven't said they've found one, so there's that...

enlightenment

(8,830 posts)
58. According to various studies,
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 02:44 PM
Mar 2015

relatively few (about 25-30%) suicides leave notes, so the absence of one doesn't indicate much.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
59. That's a good point.
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 03:09 PM
Mar 2015

If he did leave one, or write a letter and mail it, though, it would help solve the mystery.

BumRushDaShow

(128,877 posts)
13. Yet blacks (and hispanics, who are not a specific racial group) have the lowest suicide rate
Fri Mar 20, 2015, 05:36 PM
Mar 2015

in the nation.

https://www.afsp.org/understanding-suicide/facts-and-figures

Which is why claiming such continues to need to be questioned.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
30. Right, which is why they mentioned the other factors
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 12:33 AM
Mar 2015

Like, for instance, the lack of injuries or signs of struggle, the fact that his hands and feet weren't tied, etc.

BumRushDaShow

(128,877 posts)
36. So you don't think that someone who may have been bound
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 08:21 AM
Mar 2015

might have had perpetrators remove the bindings?

I don't see any "binding" on these poor folks -



I'm sorry but anything from an "investigation" out of a rural Mississippi town, is suspect at this point. For all we know, he could have died of "natural causes" (e.g., heart attack, which is generally, the most common manner of death of black men of his age), his body found, and strung up on a tree as a "message". A REAL investigation with competent pathologists and forensics specialists, is needed.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
37. Several points
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 08:26 AM
Mar 2015

1. When people are bound and the bonds are removed, that still leaves marks medical examiners can find

2. The sheriff and coroner are both African American, elected by a population that is 85% African American. The sheriff is the President of the county NAACP chapter.

3. A coroner's finding is not definitive; it is the coroner's opinion that the manner of death was suicide. That does not prevent the sheriff (who, I remind you, is the president of the county NAACP chapter) from opening a homicide investigation in this matter.

4. Suicide affects all races, genders, and income levels.

romanic

(2,841 posts)
38. All your points are sound.
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 08:48 AM
Mar 2015

Though I do hope the sheriff looks into the hanging a bit more to find concrete evidence that this was a suicide and not something more sinister.

BumRushDaShow

(128,877 posts)
39. And addressing the points
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 08:49 AM
Mar 2015

1.) From what some articles claim, the body was apparently hanging there for awhile and decomposed or decomposing, so it may be difficult to ascertain this conclusion

2.) The race of the sheriff and coroner are irrelevant. I am not alleging a "cover-up". Right now, people are being released from prison after decades, for false evidence and testimony due to either a lack of methods for comprehensively examining evidence, general poor investigations and a lack of a good defense due to lack of money, pure unadulterated rail-roading by corrupt investigators, or total incompetence of the prosecutors, with little or no ability for the defendant to defend themselves due to lack of money

3.) Agree, which is why more time is needed to definitively determine what might have happened, although no one can summarily rule out the scenario I presented (i.e., "natural death" and then what might have amounted to what is often dubbed "interfering with a corpse&quot .

4.) My link shows that "suicide" is a choice that has been established as the LEAST chosen option by blacks of any group. It does NOT rule it out, but it is not something that is common and should automatically be assumed to be the case just based on what whites do. I have seen over the years where with increasing integration and interaction between races (where there is no longer "legal" segregation, although de facto segregation still exists), that the option for suicide has increased over the years among the black population. However it still remains near rock bottom among all groups.

You will find that in a large number of the most heinous mass shooting crimes committed by whites, the perpetrator kills himself. The end. Very few black criminals chose suicide as a get-out-of-jail card, and not many as a general get-out-of-life card either. Again, there are black suicides, but not to the degree that it should automatically be considered at the top of a list.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
40. I completely grant your rebuttal points
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 09:03 AM
Mar 2015

And I hope this is more thoroughly investigated.

I posted simply to counter the pervasive image that this was a case of white officials covering up the suspicious death of a black man.

BumRushDaShow

(128,877 posts)
41. That's fine
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 09:15 AM
Mar 2015


Black cops beat and kill black "suspects" (in quotes) as brutally as white cops in many cases. The problem is training, perceptions, and "value" or "worth" of blacks vs others, regarding what decisions are made during encounters, investigations, and the results of either or both.

Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
49. The state govt is investigating, the FBI is on the ground.
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 10:26 AM
Mar 2015

This won't be a case of coverup, no matter what else turns out to be true.

I think the investigation will take a while. A better headline should be "So far no contraindications of suicide."

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
29. A black coroner and black sheriff in a county that's 85% African American?
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 12:30 AM
Mar 2015

And both are elected positions.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
16. not surprised in the least
Fri Mar 20, 2015, 06:37 PM
Mar 2015

with the preliminary finding here, not surprised at all. He''ll be another written of as another death of no consequence.....for sure.

NaturalHigh

(12,778 posts)
18. Do you have some reason to think the finding is wrong?
Fri Mar 20, 2015, 07:44 PM
Mar 2015

If this is a murder that is being covered up as a suicide, it would have to be a spectacular conspiracy. The FBI, medical examiner, local police, and who knows who else would have to be involved and on the same page to pull off a cover up like that.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
45. there is nothing spectacular
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 09:56 AM
Mar 2015

here. The hands could have been untied after the murder, this type of mentality has been passed along generation to generation as well as methodology of white lynching black and not getting caught, yes even the FBI can be fooled/wrong. What's so hard about simple logic in this type of murder? Everyone wants to deny the overall history and current social situation. This is becoming a very dangerous society for black children and POC. Wouldn't be spectacular at all...... pretty easy in fact, by the perps and their buddies in the local and state investigation bureaus.

 

Fiendish

(47 posts)
20. Suicide? Seriously?
Fri Mar 20, 2015, 08:00 PM
Mar 2015

Full disclosure: I identify Mississippi as home. I wasn't born there, but I'm a military brat whose old man was stationed at Keesler. I lived there from age 6 to 19, so for all intents and purposes, it's home.

This just makes me sick at heart. Based on what little we know now, this doesn't strike me as suicide. For one thing, the lack of a chair/stool near the body should make it pretty obvious suicide is an unlikely option at best. Yeah, he might've climbed up onto the tree limb and then jumped down... except a "rope" made of tied bedsheets likely wouldn't have stood up to the strain of a falling body.

Hopefully the cops there are using their heads for something other than their hats. If the sheets didn't come from his home or weren't just purchased (i.e., have skin cells or hair or other material traces indicating they're not brand new), that's another strike against the suicide theory. I just don't buy it.

It hurts to say that, too. I love Mississippi in a lot of ways. I knew a lot of great people there. I knew (and know) that there are ugly parts of the state and the South in general, but living on the Coast, things seemed better there. That this sort of thinking persists in the 21st century never ceases to floor me. That people act on this sort of thinking is just sad and disgusting.

I hope the authorities don't shrug their shoulders and carry on with business as usual. If this poor man was murdered, he and his family deserve the full measure of justice, and whoever killed him deserves the full measure of justice.

 

Fiendish

(47 posts)
42. Thanks!
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 09:25 AM
Mar 2015

I guess you could say I'm a recovering Republican. In my younger days I was pretty conservative, but the older I've gotten and the more I've seen of the world, the more liberal I become.

CaliforniaPeggy

(149,593 posts)
52. Glad to hear you're recovering!
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 11:11 AM
Mar 2015

More than a few people here have been down that same road.

Again, Welcome Aboard!

shaayecanaan

(6,068 posts)
31. A stool won't work
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 01:45 AM
Mar 2015

You need a good six feet fall for a hanging, in order to break the neck. Anything less is simply a garrotting, or in other words a death from slow strangulation. Plenty of people do make that mistake and die a horrible death because of it, but other people are wise to it.

I do agree with you that the sheets are key. He could have taken them off someone's clothes line I suppose, or purchased them. Conversely, if they are from his house, it would be difficult to conclude that this was other than a suicide.

 

Fiendish

(47 posts)
44. Yeah, the sheets are important.
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 09:49 AM
Mar 2015

The origin of the sheets will be a long step in the direction of sorting this out. As you said, if they came from his home, then suicide becomes much more likely, even with the other problems with that theory.

If, however, the sheets weren't from his home or weren't just purchased, there should be something to go on there. Even a freshly laundered sheet is going to have hair and other biological traces. It's not a lot, but at least it's something. If good old-fashioned detective work leads them elsewhere, biological traces recovered from the sheets might play a big part later on.

DallasNE

(7,402 posts)
33. My First Thought Was What Was He Standing On
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 02:31 AM
Mar 2015

My second thought was that a gag, belts to "tie" the hands and feet could all be removed after the hanging so what does this really tell us. With the passage of time those marks would have faded if there were any.

He was hanging for something like 10 days so Mississippi heat would have decomposed his body a great deal.

I'm not impressed that this is anywhere near conclusive.

 

Fiendish

(47 posts)
48. Nothing excuses murder.
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 10:09 AM
Mar 2015

And absolutely nothing excuses murder because of race.

It just makes me sad when I hear people disparage the South as nothing but hicks and racists. Yes, there are hicks and racists in the South, but there are also a lot of really good people in the South, too. Hicks and racists don't disappear once you're north of the Mason-Dixon. Hate and ignorance have nothing to do with geography.

If this poor guy was murdered because he was black, I hope to hell they catch the person(s) who did it. And if and when that happens, I hope they get the justice they so richly deserve.

Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
50. If he was murdered for ANY reason I hope they catch the perp!
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 10:29 AM
Mar 2015

Supposedly he had been gambling with someone else right before last known contact. Did he win a lot? Did he lose a lot?

It could be robbery-murder, suicide or something else.

 

Fiendish

(47 posts)
51. Yeah, that's what I meant, as well.
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 10:46 AM
Mar 2015

I didn't mean to say that if he was murdered for some other reason I don't care if they catch the bastard(s) or not.

If he was gambling before he dropped out of sight, then let's hope the cops and the feds follow up on that and take a long hard look at his gambling buddies. Sure, if he lost a boatload of money that makes suicide a little more likely, but no matter how the cards fell when he was gambling, they need to run this down.

Too often the murder of a person of color is just brushed off with, "Oh well, nothing more to see here."

 

awoke_in_2003

(34,582 posts)
25. While no death is good...
Fri Mar 20, 2015, 10:53 PM
Mar 2015

I do hope this is the case. The thought of lynchings making a comeback is not one I wish to have.

ripcord

(5,347 posts)
28. I think suicide may be it
Fri Mar 20, 2015, 11:53 PM
Mar 2015

He was missing for two weeks but found hanging 500 feet from his home, I doubt anyone would have kept him alive that long just to take him back to his house to hang him, way too much of a chance to get caught.

shaayecanaan

(6,068 posts)
34. from the sheriff
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 05:16 AM
Mar 2015

Lucas, who is himself African-American, said Friday that he's worried people will jump to the conclusion that Byrd was murdered and that race was a factor.

"I don't want the community to go excited saying it was a white-on-black thing. That's the worst thing that can happen, is people making it into a race issue," Lucas said. "And that's my biggest fear. And I don't want that to happen.

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/03/20/us/african-american-man-found-hanging-in-mississippi/

Corey_Baker08

(2,157 posts)
56. Reminds Me Of The KY Census Worker Found Hanging...
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 01:01 PM
Mar 2015

With the word FED painted on his body & his US Govt Census ID Stapled to his torso...Which was also ruled a suicide.

I don't buy it...

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