Searchers find empty second 'black box' from doomed German jetliner that killed 150, including 2 Ame
Source: Faux News
Searchers Wednesday found an empty second black box from the doomed German passenger plane that crashed into the Alps, killing 150 people including two Americans.
French President Francois Hollande said the flight data recorder case was found without any contents. The crash apparently dislodged the recorder's memory card which is still missing.
Search teams found the mangled first black box, the cockpit voice recorder, just hours after the Germanwings plane crashed Tuesday. French officials said Wednesday afternoon that investigators had retrieved an audiophile form the recorder with "usable sound and voice." They hope to make conclusions about recordings in a few days.
Investigators need the two black boxes to solve the biggest mystery: what caused the Airbus A320 to descend over an 8-minute period without any pilot indication the aircraft was in trouble. The experienced pilot had the plane at 38,000 feet, but only for a minute. Then suddenly and inexplicably, the jet descended apparently still under control and without a single distress call or a request for permission.
FULL story and video at link. FULL title: Searchers find empty second 'black box' from doomed German jetliner that killed 150, including 2 Americans
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/03/25/investigators-face-daunting-search-for-clues-to-germanwings-flight-disaster/
titaniumsalute
(4,742 posts)I'm a private pilot. I don't pretend to know much about airliners. But how two very experienced pilots could be in a controlled descent from 38,000 ft with no maneuvers to fix it, or report it via distress, is bizarro.
If the auto pilot was on (which in 99.9% cases it would be) I suppose something could have gone awry and the plane descended. But when you are flying at 38,000 feet and you start descending you would feel it. That is more than 3,000 feet per minute descent which is rather quick for a large jet.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)AllyCat
(16,039 posts)So strange that additional information is apparently, not there.
Safe passage to all and peace to their families and loved ones.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Black boxes aren't indestructible. They might yet find the component.
The Stranger
(11,297 posts)That's the whole point.
If the black box doesn't survive the crash, it hasn't served its fundamental purpose.
Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)It is designed to be as damage resistant as possible, but the forces involved in slamming into a mountain at 600 mph is problematic.
The Stranger
(11,297 posts). . . withstand the forces involved in slamming into a mountain at 600 mph.
Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)Attempts to upgrade the standard have failed repeatedly for 16 years.
The Stranger
(11,297 posts)Thanks.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)entity before we see a massive overhaul of the black box system.
Edit: Nearly there already, as the 'lost' Malaysia air flight demonstrated, the engines upload data to a satellite network at periodic intervals.
hack89
(39,171 posts)they are only required to survive 310 mph crashes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_recorder
The Stranger
(11,297 posts)Thanks.
hack89
(39,171 posts)that are much more survivable but I suspect the issue is that the airlines are resistant to spending that kind of money. A another alternative is real time monitoring using satellite communications so the data is recorded at a ground station somewhere. One of the interesting things to come out of the ML 370 is that Rolls Royce was monitoring the engines in real time. The Air France plane that crashed in the middle of the Atlantic also had a monitoring system that provided valuable data well before they found the black boxes.
The data from the sensors are accumulated and transmitted at regular intervals to ground stations monitored by the engine manufacturers. Alert messages indicating anomalies are instantly transmitted. According to Rolls-Royces website, their aircraft engine data is transmitted via satellite feed. Rolls- Royce would analyze the data submitted and make recommendations to the airline for engine maintenance, as appropriate.
In the case of Flight MH370, analysis of the engine data captured by Rolls-Royce could provide important information with regard to engine performance at the time the transponder stopped transmitting. This information would indicate, for example, if the engines were running properly or if certain parts were running too fast, too slow or too hot or if the engine was running at all.
In the Air France AF447 crash in the Atlantic in 2009, the Airbus aircraft monitoring system was critical in giving accident investigators vital clues as to what might have caused the crash before the flight data recorder was found. The aircraft monitoring system indicated unusual aircraft speeds which could have been due to problems with the pitot tubes, critical components of the aircrafts airspeed indicator. These early clues allowed investigators to hone in on a possible accident cause and allow Airbus to make changes to the pitot tubes well before the black boxes were retrieved, which when recovered and analyzed confirmed the problem with the pitot tubes.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngoglia/2014/03/13/aircraft-engine-monitoring-how-it-works-and-how-it-could-help-malaysia-air-370-crash-investigtors/
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)essentially proof from causing any in-flight emergencies of its own. By say, catching fire due to some component failure and short, or spectacular battery failure.
hack89
(39,171 posts)stream the data off the aircraft and just use the on-plane recorders as backup.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)They're partially there already, what with the engines uploading performance and alert data to the manufacturer periodically, in flight. The Rolls Royce Trent 800's talk to someone's satellite network in-flight, but in periodic bursts, not real-time.
Won't be long. Boeing has a system like that too.
tridim
(45,358 posts)IMO they should all be scrapped and replaced with recorders that send radio data as a backup.
Anything other than a nuclear blast should not damage a black box.
B2G
(9,766 posts)It just looks like debris is scattered every which way.
AllyCat
(16,039 posts)But if they were trying to save a plane full of people, it was something they hoped would be done later.
AllyCat
(16,039 posts)AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)I don't think he could have had access to the FDR though, so the missing memory card is an unrelated issue. Doesn't seem like he'd care to sabotage it anyway.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)Would a cell phone work at that location/altitude?
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Depends on the towers in the area and the burger you are asking about...
Angleae
(4,469 posts)Not many cell towers there (if any).
bigworld
(1,807 posts)Ugh, what a daunting task.
B2G
(9,766 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Rationally, what would lead anyone to assume it's not there rather than assume it is?
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Sounds un-fun.
Hopefully the cause can be discerned from the cockpit voice recorder only.
bigworld
(1,807 posts)three videos down: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32056861
B2G
(9,766 posts)maindawg
(1,151 posts)That plane flew directly over the large hadron collider in Geneva. Thats the machine they built to attemp various experiments involving high energy physics. Some people worried that they might create a black hole. The collider had been shut down , but on the 23rd I beleive they fired that puppy up.I understand it takes a tremendous amount of electricity to run and that it has a radius of about 7 miles. If that plane flew over that machine when it was on, all power would be lost. Not even a radio would work.
I am not a scientist, I heard this theory from another person and thought Id pass it on.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)jakeXT
(10,575 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)You should stop listening to that person. He or she is about as wrong as the person who claimed space travel is impossible due to time dilation.
jmowreader
(50,453 posts)Problem 1: It's not on. There's a short in one of the magnets and they're figuring out how to fix it now.
Problem 2: It's 500 feet underground and the plane was seven miles above sea level.
Problem 3: If the LHC could bring down a plane that mountain would have about a hundred planes splattered across it from the last time they used the LHC.
Thor_MN
(11,843 posts)and it would have required a turn to the west to pass over Geneva.
jmowreader
(50,453 posts)If this thing really could bring down an airplane, EUROCONTROL would have thrown up a no-fly zone around it.
I just heard a thing wanted to say it
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)Here's hoping they find the memory card from the second box.
BumRushDaShow
(127,330 posts)They did update/correct the whole paragraph later, after the OP posting if you check the link again -
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Angleae
(4,469 posts)Last edited Thu Mar 26, 2015, 02:15 AM - Edit history (1)
Such a brillliant idea to use a detachable card in a part who's main use is after a crash.
jakeXT
(10,575 posts)Unlike the FDR, the QAR usually is not required by a national Civil Aviation Authority on commercial flights and is not designed to survive an accident. Despite this, some QARs have survived accidents and provided valuable information beyond that was recorded by the FDR.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quick_access_recorder
Angleae
(4,469 posts)PersonNumber503602
(1,134 posts)jakeXT
(10,575 posts)Every death is a tragedy, but seldom does a death affect us all so directly and unexpectedly, NGA Director Robert Cardillo said.
Booz Allens Betty Thompson said Selke had been a dedicated employee for 23 years.
Her husband, Raymond Selke told The Washington Post he was too grief-stricken to give details or discuss the crash.