Russian defense ministry says U.S. troops in east Ukraine

[newthinking]

Source: Reuters

Russian defense ministry says U.S. troops in east Ukraine: Interfax
MOSCOW

(Reuters) - U.S. troops are in the conflict zone in eastern Ukraine and are training Ukrainian forces, Interfax news agency quoted a spokesman for Russia's Defense Ministry as saying on Thursday.

A day earlier, Washington accused Russia of building up air defense systems inside eastern Ukraine and of involvement in training exercises of pro-Russian rebels in breach of a European-brokered truce.

Igor Konashenkov was quoted as saying that U.S. troops were training Ukrainian forces not only in western Ukraine "as Ukrainian TV channels show, but directly in the combat zone in the area of Mariupol, Severodonetsk, Artyomovsk and Volnovakha".

The Defense Ministry confirmed the report.

(Reporting by Gabriela Baczynska, editing by Elizabeth Piper)

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/04/23/us-ukraine-crisis-russia-usa-idUSKBN0NE1N920150423

[hobbit709]

1. And ALL the Russian troops of course are on their side of the line.

[NuclearDem]

2. And at the very least, US troops are the only ones actually supposed to be there.

[newthinking]

15. Minsk2 (the truce) specified that no foreign operations on either side

[NuclearDem]

17. Except since Russia clearly can't be trusted to uphold international agreements vis a vis Ukraine

the Ukrainian government asked for US help.

The US troops Ukraine asked for are the only ones supposed to be there. Russian invaders aren't.

[happyslug]

19. Why should the Russian break the agreement, they border is

Most of the area in revolt is within 40 miles of the Russian Border, the further is less then 80 miles. A army on the march (i.e on FOOT) can travel 20 miles a day. Mechanized armies can go much further. For training purposes you can transport the troops by truck to a training point in Russia in less then 2 hours, train them for 8 hours, move them back in another 2, and the troops still have 12 hours to sleep and do whatever they want to do.

Thus Russia has NO REASON to do any training on Ukrainian soil, thus no reason to violate the truce in that regard.



http://econintersect.com/files/wall/published/wall.php?post=201502203546

[JonLP24]

31. Ukraine government asked for Russia help

Right before he fled. It was a chaotic environment but he certainly did & the Ukraine government in its entirety is very corrupt, there isn't one side that is pure & the other side (East & Crimea that voted for the guy Parliament (after "early elections" -- voted out))

He certainly did & certainly is an argument Russia could argue in international court.

[Larry Engels]

3. Your comment involves a fallacy called "tu quoque."

Look it up.

[hobbit709]

10. And yours involves the mistaken belief that I care.

[Larry Engels]

39. Well, that leaves you out of a logical discussion.

Duly noted.

[Tarheel_Dem]

6. Are you insinuating that the "Russian Defense Ministry" would ever tell a lie?

[Maedhros]

9. You LAUGH at this?

[Larry Engels]

4. He takes "full responsibility."

Does that mean the families of the victims can sue him? Uh, I don't think so.

[cosmicone]

5. Another quagmire and risk of a nuclear war

Ukraine is not that important for us to get involved in for PNAC.

[Beauregard]

23. Exactly.

Gotta concentrate on destroying the Middle East.

[JonLP24]

7. The US is there

whether it is "mercarnery", CIA, whatever, the US is there. They probably wouldn't be US troops, it would probably be Academi. Academi recently was training Canadian troops

The Company Formerly Known as Blackwater Is Training Canadian Soldiers

http://www.vice.com/read/the-company-formerly-known-as-blackwater-is-training-canadian-soldiers-296

Oh shit I was about to post Canadian troops training Ukraine but the Russian Defense Ministry is right

U.S. Army Starts to Train Ukraine Units
Ukraine president hails trainers’ arrival as sign of Western commitment

YAVORIV, Ukraine—U.S. troops kicked off a training program for their Ukrainian counterparts at a military base in western Ukraine Monday, far from the continuing fighting near Russia’s border.

Ukraine President Petro Poroshenko praised the troops’ arrival as a sign the West is ready to help Ukraine defend its sovereignty. But the training program comes as NATO members are cautiously limiting their aid to Kiev to avoid provoking Russia.

Speaking before hundreds of U.S. and Ukrainian troops, Mr. Poroshenko hailed the training program as a “new stage of cooperation” between Kiev and Washington, and noted that Ukraine is also getting training from the U.K., which sent advisers last month, and from Canada and Poland, which both promised advisers later this year.

“We are not alone in this fight,” said Mr. Poroshenko, who spoke to the crowd on a parade ground during a cold downpour.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-army-starts-to-train-ukraine-units-1429566427

[Blue_Tires]

8. The same Russian defense ministry that still denies ever invading?

You're on a roll, my boy

[JonLP24]

28. The AP & Ukraine media claimed US troops were there before the Russian defense ministry did

dated April 18th

US troops arrive in Ukraine for training exercises

MOSCOW (AP) — About 300 US Army paratroopers on Friday arrived in Ukraine for training exercises with national guard units, a move criticized by Moscow and eastern Ukraine's Russia-backed separatist rebels.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/us-troops-arrive-in-ukraine-for-training-exercises/article_ecbd3982-ba10-5cc0-aff4-4d6596b465a0.html

The Pentagon just wanted to call Russia a liar.

[Blue_Tires]

33. U.S./Canadian/U.K. troops have been there training Ukranians awhile now

The OP insinuates they are in *EAST* Ukraine, which would indicate they are planning some sort of offensive....

[JonLP24]

35. Well I though the dispute was over US troops

Well lets take a look at the look at Ukrainian TV footage, see who is right for ourselves. The people on the ground living this know what is really going on anyways.

[Blue_Tires]

36. Nope...East Ukraine, or "Novorossiya" is under Russian control...

And even though it's a bullshit story, to insinuate U.S. forces are there is pretty provocative...Because if we *were* there, it would be an instant declaration of war from Putin (and rightly so)

[JonLP24]

37. How do we know whats bullshit?

Like who ordered the killing of those protestors way back when? Before the guy that fled received highest percentage of the vote in Crimea & ironically the area labeled "rebel control". Me personally I have no idea but I'm very interested in the factual truth of it all.

Now my position is the US has no side in picking side in the of this but if I were it would be for the rebels. If the rebels want Russia's help so be it but Ukraine is way too large a country to have the form of government it doesn't. It badly needs an Independent Constitution Convention to hammer out details (I'd think a regional state government with the overall government like the US & some actual separation of powers would solve a lot of issues especially the East & West divide that obviously exists going back every election to their first election except the very, very west pockets (the "oil princess" received her strongest support there when she ran)

[Blue_Tires]

38. Because if we were in Eastern Ukraine, it would be laughably easy to prove

Secondly, if we WERE planning an offensive, we sure as hell wouldn't be doing it with a couple hundred men and no artillery/armor/air support (and no, we would not be 'borrowing' Ukraine's ancient equipment leftover from the USSR days)...

Finally, even if for argument's sake we were able to sneak a couple of U.S. Army/NATO divisions into Kiev with vehicles and logistics, would NEVER be able to move them eastward into position without pretty much *everybody* knowing about it...There are dozens of well-known citizen journalists and photographers on twitter who live in these regions and try to document and share on social media everything that's going on since no "mainstream" media want to risk their necks in such a chaotic place...These twitter accounts are why I knew the Russian army had invaded with vehicles months in advance while posters like the OP were still trying to deny it...

[bemildred]

11. Pentagon Calls Russian Claim Of U.S. Troops In Eastern Ukraine 'Ridiculous'

The Pentagon has denied a Kremlin claim that U.S. military trainers have been sent into eastern Ukraine, calling the statement a “ridiculous attempt to shift the focus” from Russia’s own military activities there.

A Russian Foreign Ministry statement on April 23 said Lavrov told Kerry in a phone call the previous day that the arrival of U.S. paratroopers in western Ukraine to train Ukrainian forces “and information about the appearance of personnel from the American military company Academi in the ranks of Ukrainian forces” in eastern Ukraine “bear witness to violations by Kyiv of its commitment to withdrawal of all foreign units, military equipment, and mercenaries from Ukrainian territory.”

Pentagon spokeswoman Eileen Lainez said on April 23: “Russia continues to supply lethal weapons, training, and command and control support for armed separatists in eastern Ukraine in blatant violation of Moscow’s Minsk commitments and Ukraine’s sovereignty.”

Academi is the private U.S. security and military training firm that formerly was known as Blackwater.

http://www.rferl.org/content/ukraine-pentagon-us-troops-russia/26974811.html

[newthinking]

14. Anyone who is aware of the way we use special forces currently (see Dirty Wars)

understands that there is a very good chance we have had military operations occur there.

[JonLP24]

24. How do you explain this on April 20th?

U.S. Army Starts to Train Ukraine Units
Ukraine president hails trainers’ arrival as sign of Western commitment

http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-army-starts-to-train-ukraine-units-1429566427

One hell of a coincidence. Wall Street Journal quoting the Ukraine President praising our arrival followed by a Russian Ministry claiming we arrived which followed by the Pentagon saying we aren't Somebody is lying.

[bemildred]

32. The War Party never gives up.

Borders on being axiomatic. I will not be at all surprised if the war starts up again now, the weather is warming up. It is not difficult to create a provocation.

[bemildred]

12. Kerry told Russia in phone call to pull forces from Ukraine-official

WASHINGTON, April 23 (Reuters) - U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry told his Russian counterpart in a phone call on Wednesday that Russia must withdraw its forces from eastern Ukraine, a senior State Department official said on Thursday.

During the call with Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, Kerry also urged Russia to press pro-Russian rebels to abide by a February ceasefire agreement to end fighting in eastern Ukraine, the official said.

Kerry told Lavrov that current U.S. training of Ukrainian National Guard units in the western part of Ukraine was "fully transparent, defensive" and at the invitation of the Ukrainian government, the official added.

http://www.trust.org/item/20150423172118-5gk3c/

[bemildred]

13. Russia claims US troops in eastern Ukraine

MOSCOW (AP) -- Russia's Defense Ministry says U.S. military instructors are training Ukrainian national guardsmen in urban fighting techniques in the eastern regions where Ukrainian forces and Russia-backed separatist rebels have fought for the past year.

The claim Thursday by ministry spokesman Gen.-Maj. Igor Konashenkov came one day after the U.S. State Department claimed Russia has deployed air-defense systems in eastern Ukraine and that combined Russia-separatist forces are maintaining artillery and rocket launchers in violation of a shaky cease-fire deal.

Konashenkov denied those claims and said U.S. military instructors are working in the vicinity of the cities of Mariupol, Artemivsk and Volnovakha.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_RUSSIA_UKRAINE_US?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-04-23-13-42-17

[Xolodno]

16. Amazes me people laugh at this...

I hope the Russian Defense Ministry is just blowing smoke. Because if "trainers" are in eastern Ukraine and some "go up in smoke" and its proven...this can spiral out of control.

[JonLP24]

25. Ukraine is making the claim that we are there too

Only the Pentagon is saying we aren't

U.S. Troops Arrive in Ukraine for Training Exercises

MOSCOW (AP) — About 300 US Army paratroopers have arrived in Ukraine for training exercises with national guard units, a move criticized by the Kremlin and eastern Ukraine's Russia-backed separatist rebels.

The troops, from the Italy-based 173rd Airborne Brigade, are to spend several weeks training a total of about 900 Ukrainian national guardsmen.

Although Interior Minister Arsen Avakov had said the guardsman units could include the Azov Battalion, a far-right formation notorious for using an insignia used by many military units in Nazi Germany, U.S. Embassy spokesman James Hallock said Azov fighters would not be among those trained.

http://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2015/04/17/us-troops-arrive-in-ukraine-for-training-exercises

How many US sources do I have to keep posting before someone stops calling our own media Kremlin propaganda before people begin to realize it is the US pentagon that is lying or either both Ukraine & Russia are lying.

[JonLP24]

26. Ukraine Today

UPDATE: American troops arrive in Ukraine to train country's military

American servicemen have arrived in Ukraine for training Ukrainian military forces, that information was posted on the twitter account of the US Army Garrison Bavaria. "173rd Airborne Brigade troops from Grafenwoehr arrive in Ukraine for Fearless Guardian rotation," Garrison officials said.

US Ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt has confirmed the arrival of US forces. Ukrainian Interior Minister Arsen Avakov said on March 29 that US servicemen would take part in military drills in Yavorivskiy region near the city of Lviv.

290 American troops arrived on April 17 to Lviv International Airport to train Ukrainian troops.

http://uatoday.tv/news/american-troops-arrive-in-ukraine-to-train-country-s-military-421929.html

[JonLP24]

27. STL Today

MOSCOW (AP) — About 300 US Army paratroopers on Friday arrived in Ukraine for training exercises with national guard units, a move criticized by Moscow and eastern Ukraine's Russia-backed separatist rebels.

The troops, from the Italy-based 173rd Airborne Brigade, are to spend several weeks training a total of about 900 Ukrainian national guardsmen.

Russian Foreign Ministry spokesman Alexander Lukashevich denounced the guardsmen as "ultranationalists ... who stained themselves with the blood of women, children and the elderly during their punitive operations."

http://www.stltoday.com/news/us-troops-arrive-in-ukraine-for-training-exercises/article_ecbd3982-ba10-5cc0-aff4-4d6596b465a0.html

OK so obviously the AP wire is real

[jakeXT]

18. The last ones trained in Iraq ran away.. maybe a good thing /nt

[Throd]

20. They're just choosing to spend their vacation time there.

[Blue_Tires]

21. Meanwhile, back in the real world:

NATO: Big Military Build-up on Russia-Ukraine Border
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/nato-big-military-buildup-russia-ukraine-border-30532662



What do you think about that, "newthinking"??

[newthinking]

29. I am not surprised. Ukraine is not implimenting the agreement - Federalization

and the west has been posturing and not lowering the rhetoric. Many experts said that sending troops in to train was going to escalate things. And then if it is true that they are doing the training in war lines in the east this is completely predictable.

[JonLP24]

30. April 18th -- AP Wire

US troops arrive in Ukraine for training exercises

MOSCOW (AP) — About 300 US Army paratroopers on Friday arrived in Ukraine for training exercises with national guard units, a move criticized by Moscow and eastern Ukraine's Russia-backed separatist rebels.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/us-troops-arrive-in-ukraine-for-training-exercises/article_ecbd3982-ba10-5cc0-aff4-4d6596b465a0.html

[Blue_Tires]

34. Russia already "escalated" by invading

We've been over this, son...

[GGJohn]

40. And I'm not in the least bit surprised that you're blaming the west. eom.

[newthinking]

41. Neocons in the west and their ilk who align with extreme right wingers.

I did not know you support the International Republican institute (who have had their hands all over this and Europe (duhhh! Why is the right doing so well in Europe?)?

See two people can play this "insinuation" game.

[GGJohn]

42. Not once have you ever criticized Russia for it's invasion of Crimea or it's

support of the "rebels" in Ukraine, with you it's always been the West's fault for every thing.

[imthevicar]

22. Well the US

Has Never lied to get involved in a war, NOOO not the US.