Feds to allow hunters to cross borders with guns

[Freddie Stubbs]

Source: The Hill

The Obama administration will stop blocking hunters from traveling internationally with their guns amid mounting congressional pressure.

The U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) in February began enforcing controversial export regulations that essentially prevented hunters from taking their guns and ammunition back and forth across the border.

After hunters protested, Sen. John Hoeven (R-N.D.) demanded this week that the agency withdraw the controversial policy during a meeting with Customs chief R. Gil Kerlikowske. The senator's staff also held several other previous meetings with Customs.

Hoeven, chairman of the Senate Homeland Security Appropriations Committee which controls funding for Customs, said it is “not appropriate” for the agency to stand in the way of hunters exercising their Second Amendment rights.

Read more: http://thehill.com/regulation/administration/239850-hunting-rule-withdrawn-by-customs

[onehandle]

1. Viagra is probably cheaper across borders, too. nt

[AuntPatsy]

2. I don't see this happening regardless of what article states...

[hamsterjill]

4. I don't either.

Wouldn't the government on the other side of the border have something to say about this?

[Amishman]

27. they do, and they have historically always been fine with it

Americans going on hunting trips is big money, always follow the money

[okasha]

59. Canada, maybe.

Crossing into Mexico with guns or ammo is a "Go directly to jail" card.

[Hangingon]

81. Not if you follow the rules.

Mexican white wing dove hunting excursions still exist. The outfitters handle gun permits. Pretty popular.

[hack89]

10. Canada makes a lot of money from US hunters

This was a big deal for Canada - hunting and fishing attract a lot of foreign visitors.

[NYC_SKP]

3. I've never tried to take a firearm out of the country, but did bring a rifle on a flight to NYC.

Perfectly legal at the time.

Not sure if it could be done today.

[cosmicone]

5. Good -- let the gun nuts pay stiff fines and confiscation if not jail time

in other countries.

Let's tip off the customs in the destination country as soon as a gun-nut boards. Tipping them off won't violate the second amendment.

[former9thward]

9. Countries allow people from other countries to hunt with their guns.

It happens all the time especially in Africa. It is tourist revenue and no one is going to cut that off.

[hack89]

11. Canada makes a lot of money from US hunters

Hunting and fishing are big business.

[petronius]

6. This seems to be the relevant rule:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/22/123.17

§ 123.17 Exports of firearms, ammunition, and personal protective gear.
(a) Except as provided in § 126.1 of this subchapter, Port Directors of U.S. Customs and Border Protection shall permit the export without a license of components and parts for Category I(a) firearms, except barrels, cylinders, receivers (frames) or complete breech mechanisms when the total value does not exceed $100 wholesale in any transaction.

(b) Port Directors of U.S. Customs and Border Protection shall permit the export without a license of nonautomatic firearms covered by Category I(a) of § 121.1 of this subchapter if they were manufactured in or before 1898, or are replicas of such firearms.

(c) Port Directors of U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) shall permit U.S. persons to export temporarily from the United States without a license not more than three nonautomatic firearms in Category I(a) of § 121.1 of this subchapter and not more than 1,000 cartridges therefor, provided that:

(1) The person declares the articles to a CBP officer upon each departure from the United States, presents the Internal Transaction Number from submission of the Electronic Export Information in the Automated Export System per § 123.22 of this subchapter, and the articles are presented to the CBP officer for inspection;

(2) The firearms and accompanying ammunition to be exported is with the individual's baggage or effects, whether accompanied or unaccompanied (but not mailed); and

(3) The firearms and accompanying ammunition must be for that person's exclusive use and not for reexport or other transfer of ownership. The person must declare that it is his intention to return the article(s) on each return to the United States. The foregoing exemption is not applicable to the personnel referred to in § 123.18 of this subchapter.

It sounds to me that in order to 'export' firearms or ammo (subject to arms trafficking regulations) one needs to use the AES. But to use the AES, one needs to be a business, which most hunters aren't. And the IRS wasn't inclined to register individual hunters as businesses, since they really weren't. Which put the hunters in a bind.

I'd say this is a good fix/non-enforcement decision for a rule where a particular wrinkle wasn't thought through all the way...

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

26. Is that excerpt the 'fix'?

Because that looks fine to me. If that's what people are complaining about, I'm not sure why they're complaining.

[petronius]

45. No, that's the problem, I think

Take a look at c1, the AES requirement...

Edit: Not enforcing that is the 'fix'.

[VScott]

7. An example of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing.

I can understand why the hunters are pissed off..

At issue were export regulations that Customs began applying to hunters in February.

Under the rules, hunters were required to register with the IRS as a business so they could provide Customs with an employer identification number used to track their guns.

However, the IRS refused to register the hunters, because they were not legitimate businesses, in what has turned into a bureaucratic nightmare for many sportsmen, according to Hoeven’s office.

[Xithras]

8. IIRC, this is primarily a problem with Canada.

Lots of Americans hunt in Canada or drive the highway up to Alaska with firearms. Canada generally allows Americans to bring rifles into, or through, their country as long as the rifles are otherwise legal in Canada. You have to register the rifles at the border, pay a fee, and get a temporary possession permit but it's a relatively painless process. Restricted firearms like handguns can be brought in as well, but there are special regulations applied and you have to apply ahead of time (the exemption is primarily for Americans who are travelling to Alaska and transiting Canada).

[Historic NY]

14. Its always been a thing with Canada...

stopping, declaring and getting permits. Re-enactors have been doing this for years its never been a problem. The biggest problem is having a passport or some enhanced documents allowing you to enter or exit the country.

[chernabog]

12. Why would anyone actually want to hunt?

Killing animals for fun? Seems psychotic. Can't hunters find something better to do with their time?

[valerief]

13. They're not smart enough for cribbage. nt

[-none]

16. I used to play Cribbage.

And I don't hunt, then or now, so you might be correct.

[samsingh]

18. its disgusting and sadistic

[GGJohn]

21. What's disgusting and sadistic?

Wanting food that isn't loaded up with chemicals? Wanting to be self sufficient?
Wanting to help the poor who can't afford to buy store bought meat?
No, what's disgusting is attitudes like yours and the other person towards us hunters.

[ileus]

42. Butt Butt....guns kill animals.

and that's mean.


In other news....Spring gobbler season is here, and my son and I should hit the woods in the morning before his 12 O'clock baseball game.

[chernabog]

44. Yeah, it's cruel

You can't see that?

[GGJohn]

58. Nope. eom.

[NickB79]

64. And eating factory-farmed livestock is what exactly?

I'd rather eat this:

Than this:

Or this:

[chernabog]

68. Just don't eat any

You don't need to

[GGJohn]

72. How about this?

You mind your business and we'll mind ours?
Sound fair?

[chernabog]

76. No I don't think I will

This is a liberal forum where people express liberal views. Animal rights and welfare are left wing philosophies so I think I have every right to call someone out when they are needlessly killing innocent beings.

[GGJohn]

79. Fine,

but' you'll find that your anti hunting views are in the minority here on DU, there are a lot of rural Dems that hunt for food, as I do and your views are generally ridiculed here.

[GGJohn]

80. Might want to check out this thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026565045

[Munificence]

19. "Why would anyone actually want to hunt"

Wow, you surely have forgotten where you came from. I'm not going to even begin answering it for you as I am sure you'd never be able to comprehend nor understand.

I guess you get yours from a package.

[chernabog]

23. Get what from a package?

I don't eat dead animals. It's cruel.

[Reter]

53. Try eating them live then

n/t

[chernabog]

54. Try not eating them at all

Much better for them and the environment

[GGJohn]

56. Yeah, because wildlife dying of disease and starvation is sooooo good for the environment.

[chernabog]

69. Starvation and disease?

When is the last time you heard a hunter claim to track down the sickest, thinnest deer in an effort to “wean” the herd? Natural selection maintains deer herd size. Starvation is an essential mechanism of natural selection. Without humans, guns, arrows or traps—the weak naturally die off and the strong survive. Some wild areas preserved for hunting alter terrain to favor target animals. For example, intentional forest fires, timber clearing and flooding draw waterfowl. Manipulating nature to favor one species causes the endangerment or extinction of another. According to the Federal Endangered Species Act: “The 2 major causes of extinction are hunting and habitat destruction.”

[GGJohn]

20. Whaaaaaaaaa?

Who said anything about killing animals for fun?
Most hunters, including myself, eat what we kill or donate the xtra meat to the food pantries or homeless shelters.

[chernabog]

24. There is no need to eat dead animals

Therefore, you are killing for the pleasure of your tastebuds.

[GGJohn]

28. Wrong!!!

I have a need, as do my tastebuds, for fresh, wild meat.
I will continue to hunt for my food, as will millions of other hunters whether or not you approve of it.

[chernabog]

30. OK, so I am not wrong

You just confirmed my post. You hunt for the pleasure of your taste buds. 7% of the US population hunt, so I'd say your are in the minority. Hopefully this unnecessary and cruel practice will stop soon.

[GGJohn]

31. Wrong again, but if you want to declare victory,

have at it.
And hunting isn't going to go away, millions of us, and our offspring, will continue to hunt for steroid and chemical free meat, instead of that store bought crap poison.

[chernabog]

33. Just stop eating dead animals

Pretty simple.

[Telcontar]

37. That is moronic

I am an omnivore. I eat anything and everything. And I am a member if the species that are the greatest hunters on Earth. You may want to deny your evolutionary heritage, but I won't. Hunting is both fun and tasty.

[chernabog]

40. The moronic thing is

Killing and eating animals for absolutely no reason other than to satisfy your taste buds. If you think ending a life is fun there is something wrong with you. I think 95% of liberals would agree with me on that.

[Telcontar]

46. I think your grasp if statistics is mostly wishful thinking

Animals are part if the food chain.

[chernabog]

48. You said you think killing is fun

Those are your words. You have no empathy, most would agree with me. Humans do not need to eat animals to live. So no, dead animal flesh does not need to be a part of the modern Human diet.

[Telcontar]

50. Killing is fun. Denying that fact is to deny our genetic heritage

Else killing would not trigger the atavistic response it does. Might I suggest Barbara Einreich's book "Blood Rites" for a better explaination than I can give.

[chernabog]

52. Killing is not fun

Please seek help. So the fuck what if it's in our genes, it doesn't mean you should do it. Are you someone who only follows their primal instincts? Do you go around raping and murdering? Or are you somehow able to control yourself. Why can't you control your bloodlust when it comes to killing animals?

[Telcontar]

66. Who said it was just animals?

We all follow primal instincts. It's all a matter of style how you do it.

[Tom Ripley]

55. I think spiders have us beat for the "greatest hunters on Earth" title

However, I may be wrong.

[Telcontar]

65. Well, there is one overambitious spider that keeps putting a web over my jeep door

I admire his tenacity. I'd feed generations of spiders I'm sure.

[Sunlei]

41. chemical free? even squirrels and city pigeons can't avoid round-up/chemical runoff

[GGJohn]

57. As opposed to factory farmed animals?

Wild animals are relatively chemical free compared to those brutal factory farms.
BTW, I don't live in the city, I own a farm outside of Flagstaff.

[Sunlei]

36. with the cost of licence, guns, ammo, camo clothes, lease, that duck costs $2,000 each.

sorry but in the reality of todays world the "must hunt to eat" doesn't fly much anymore with me.

[GGJohn]

60. Let's see,

the camo, rifle, ammo are a one time expense, I'm a retired veteran so the license is minimal cost , and I have no clue what you're talking about a lease.

I never once claimed that I "must hunt to eat", I hunt my meat, grow our own veggies, have free range chickens, have several head of cattle, because I refuse to buy food at the grocery stores because of the food being filled with chemicals and buying that food only supports those cruel and inhumane factory farms, but it you want to contribute to the horrendous conditions of those farms, then by all means, continue to buy store bought meat, meanwhile, I'll eat much healthier buy hunting my own food.

[chernabog]

71. You claim to care about Heath

So why do you eat dead animals? There are plenty of reasons why you shouldn't for health reasons.

[GGJohn]

73. I'm almost into my 70's,

my last physical showed I'm still very healthy, and that's because I eat healthy food, maintain a healthy regiment, etc.
How about you don't tell others what to do?

[LanternWaste]

47. Creative way to rationalize entertainment.

Creative way to rationalize entertainment.

[GGJohn]

61. Not entertainment,

just living healthy.

[chernabog]

49. Telcontar

A fellow Hunter of yours said killing is fun in post #37.

[GGJohn]

62. And?

So what, for some the hunt is fun, for others, it's a way to harvest good, wholesome, healthy food.
If you expect me to condemn him, you'll be waiting a hell of a long time.

[chernabog]

70. You asked who said anyone was killing for fun

I told you who. I'm sure you do too.

[GGJohn]

74. And I'm sure you know jack shit about me. eom.

[KingCharlemagne]

32. It would be far more sporting were, say, the animals able

to shoot back!

[Hoppy]

15. Well shit.

. Who wouldn't want a polar bear head over their mantle?

[GGJohn]

22. Well shit.

The vast majority of hunters actually hunt for food, not trophies.

[Hoppy]

25. Real Americans want trophies.

Trophy wives.
Trophy sports stuff and so forth.

[GGJohn]

29. And yet, very few American's trophy hunt,

again, the vast majority of hunters, including myself and wife, hunt for food, not trophies.

[KingCharlemagne]

34. Oh, so you maintain that these yo-yos taking their guns into

Canada are doing so to hunt food? Please proceed.

[GGJohn]

63. Oh, so you know for sure that they don't?

Please proceed.

[KingCharlemagne]

67. Oh, FFS. You stretch credulity to its limits. - nt

[GGJohn]

75. You're a good one to talk about stretching crudulity to the limits.

Last edited Sat Apr 25, 2015, 09:52 AM - Edit history (1)

[chernabog]

77. When did he say anything about credibility?

The word he used was credulity. I'll give you time to go look up the definition.

[GGJohn]

78. Thanks, but how about minding your own business?

I misspelled the word and now have fixed it.

[DustyJoe]

17. crossing with guns is new ?

After seeing Border Patrol night pics of mexicans carrying bales of dope and armed with AK47s across our borders with no interdiction, I thought the hands off policy on guns across the border was status quo.

[Sunlei]

35. good show President Obama. Let Canada and Mexico deal with the Hunters. They have strict laws.

Our border-military is hardest on legit Americans and persons who just want to travel in the USA.


The Bush 9-11 knee-jerk 'anti-terrorist' laws and the industry that grew from those laws- makes America suck.

No wonder our tourist industry dies the slow death.

[Paladin]

38. I guess Gun Enthusiasts can still whine about how tough they've got it in the U.S.

But it sure as hell isn't convincing.

[ileus]

39. You pay out thousands for a hunt, you should get to use your own equipment.

[Sunlei]

43. now if we can only get the USA "trophy head hunters" to stop re=selling the horns and ivory!!

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

51. This reminds me, criminal judge continues to block Obama immigration.

And these people just continue to suffer.

Why I