Washington officer shoots men accused of earlier beer theft

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Associated Press

Washington officer shoots men accused of earlier beer theft
By RACHEL LA CORTE, Associated Press | May 21, 2015 | Updated: May 21, 2015 5:58pm

OLYMPIA, Wash. (AP) — Two stepbrothers suspected of trying to steal beer from a grocery store were not armed with guns when they were shot Thursday by a police officer who confronted them in Washington state's capital city, authorities said.

The officer reported he was being assaulted with a skateboard early Wednesday before the shooting in Olympia that left a 21-year-old man critically injured and a 24-year-old man in stable condition. Both were expected to survive.

The shooting, which is being investigated by a team of detectives from several agencies, prompted some protests.

"We are committed to helping our community work through this difficult circumstance and help us understand this tragic event," Olympia Police Chief Ronnie Roberts said at news conference.


Read more: http://www.chron.com/news/crime/article/Police-Washington-officer-shot-men-who-tried-to-6278215.php

[ManiacJoe]

1. Skateboards do qualify as deadly weapons

just like all other club-type weapons.

There needs to be lots more details before any accurate judgement can be made.

[Cooley Hurd]

2. Oh, FFS...

So does ANY large, hard object.

[ManiacJoe]

3. Your are correct.

[Cooley Hurd]

4. My father was a LEO...

...and, one time, a BIG guy (even bigger than Dad, who was quite big himself) went after him with a baseball bat. Dad never drew his gun. He simply stood back (again... and again) while this moran swung the bat. After 2 minutes, the guy finally tired out and Dad simply cuffed him.

THAT'S how a LEO should do his job, not shoot first.

That was my point...

[ManiacJoe]

5. Yes, sometimes that works out OK.

Sometimes not.

At this point, we don't know which situation this was.

[Hoppy]

7. When I was a high school teacher, that was the advice a gyn teacher offered when observing a fight.

Let 'em go at it. They will be exhausted in about a minute. Then you can break it up.

[ManiacJoe]

9. Very good advice for the observers.

It does not always work out so well for the participants.

[Hoppy]

14. Correct, but unlike law enforcement, the teachers' job description does not include

breaking up fights or getting hit by swinging fists.

[Cooley Hurd]

11. The cop couldn't outrun a thrown skateboard?

[ManiacJoe]

13. I was under the impression it was being

swung like a bat.

Dodging one would not be that hard. If both suspects are swinging the boards, you are in trouble.

[Cooley Hurd]

15. ...so you simply run back.

[ManiacJoe]

17. Like I said,

easy to do with a single attacker, harder to do against multiple.

[Cooley Hurd]

19. No, it's really not.

...as long as you were faster, even slightly faster.

Deadly force should ALWAYS be a last resort, not the first, ESPECIALLY if you're a well-trained professional. That's the rub. Today's police are mal-trained to resort to deadly force FIRST.

[ManiacJoe]

20. You seem to misunderstand the goal and responsibility of the cops.

The job of the cops is to take the suspects into custody using whatever level of force is reasonably needed to overcome any resistance by the suspects. Retreating is normally not the correct tactic for the cops.

Since the suspects escalated to deadly force, defending themselves with the same level of force is reasonable and expected.

For the civilians, it is a different story.

[Cooley Hurd]

24. They've crossed that Rubicon...

...and have reached the assessment that that ANY threat (deadly and, even, non-deadly) should be met with deadly force. You doubt this? Look at all the cop indictments recently. Justice is catching up with them. FINALLY!

[ManiacJoe]

27. I don't doubt that it happens.

Just watch the news.
However, that does not make their behavior acceptable nor legal nor right.

[Cooley Hurd]

36. Whose behavior?

Please define...

[ManiacJoe]

39. The cops' behavior.

That is what you meant in #24, right?

[Cooley Hurd]

41. ...yes. My point has been their over-reaction is not justified.

[ManiacJoe]

42. In general, you are correct.

In this case, we don't have enough data yet to accurately decide.

[uppityperson]

25. "The job of the cops is to take the suspects into custody using whatever level of force is..."? Fail

Unfortunately too many cops it seems think that is their job but it is not.

http://www.criminaljusticeusa.com/police-officer/

The duties of a police officer, also known as a law enforcement officer, focus on protecting people and property. They patrol the areas they are assigned, which sometimes include entire jurisdictions, respond to calls, enforce laws, make arrests, issue citations, and occasionally testify in court cases. They often make traffic stops, respond to domestic disturbances, and, at times, provide first aid to someone involved in a traffic accident or injured in a domestic dispute until paramedics arrive. Much of their time is divided between patrolling, writing reports, and filling out forms.

And from Olympia, WA, where this took place...
http://olympiawa.gov/city-services/police-department.aspx

The mission of the Olympia Police Department is to consistently earn the trust of the residents and visitors in our community. We accomplish our mission through a team approach to proactive policing, corrections, community education and support services. We are recognized as being compassionate, respectful, highly-trained, innovative and as people who are dedicated to making a positive difference in the City of Olympia.

http://olympiawa.gov/city-services/police-department/employment.aspx

Career Opportunities with the Olympia Police Department
The Olympia Police Department is an innovative, full service law enforcement agency whose mission is to proactively address crime and reduce victimization, while safe guarding the constitutional rights of all people. On a daily basis, that purpose engages our employees in complex, challenging tasks that are constantly changing. For that reason, we seek both commissioned and civilian employees who have a solid educational background and a strong work ethic, plus exceptional maturity, flexibility, self-control, common sense, sensitivity and talent at interpersonal communication and problem solving.

Contemporary law enforcement is a particularly satisfying career choice for those who pride themselves on having vision, but who find their greatest enjoyment comes from successfully applying sound concepts to the solution of real-life problems.

Nope. Nothing there that says "The job of the cops is to take the suspects into custody using whatever level of force is reasonably needed to overcome any resistance by the suspects. Retreating is normally not the correct tactic for the cops. "

Also, since the article has not specified what he meant by "assaulted with a skateboard", your comment of "Since the suspects escalated to deadly force" is another assumption you are making.

[ManiacJoe]

28. I applaud your enthusiasm, but

nothing you posted disagrees with what I posted.

Also, since the article has not specified what he meant by "assaulted with a skateboard", your comment of "Since the suspects escalated to deadly force" is another assumption you are making.

Any use of a club-type weapon is lethal force unless you have been trained in the non-lethal use of the weapon. You would seem to need to brush up on your self-defense training.

[uppityperson]

32. "Any use of a club-type weapon is lethal force"?

I used a skateboard (a club-like weapon according to you) when I was a kid. I used "lethal force"?

Now you are getting silly so I am done with this discussion. Bye.

[ManiacJoe]

34. If you "use" you mean "ride"

then, no, you were not using the board as a lethal weapon. But you knew that already.

If by "use" you meant "assaulted another person", then, yes, you were using lethal force. Feel free to educate yourself if you are confused. Ask questions; lots of us here are happy to help.

[Jesus Malverde]

43. You mean they were armed with TWO. skateboards

Mercy it's a wonder the cop survived.

[uppityperson]

18. Where did you read that and why make that assumption? As you said...

"There needs to be lots more details before any accurate judgement can be made."

[ManiacJoe]

21. From the link in the OP. (original version of the article)

[uppityperson]

22. "he was being assaulted with a skateboard". Nothing about swinging it like a bat.

I also see nothing about 2 people swinging skateboards like bats.

[ManiacJoe]

23. Swinging like a bat

would be the common method of assaulting another with a skateboard.

The current article reads nothing like the original version.

[uppityperson]

26. There is a "common method of assaulting another with a skateboard"? Your assumptions are showing

Nope. Nothing in the article that says it was being swung like a bat.

[ManiacJoe]

29. Congrats on your reading.

No one has claimed the article actually said that.

However, I am familiar with the common methods of using a skateboard as a weapon, ie swung like a bat.

[uppityperson]

30. You did.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1100120
YOU : I was under the impression it was being swung like a bat.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1100147
ME: Where did you read that?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1100156
YOU: From the link in the OP.

[ManiacJoe]

31. You must have missed the word "impression".

See also, implied and inferred.

[uppityperson]

33. Where did you read that? You said "from the link in the OP." eom

[ManiacJoe]

35. Asked and answered already.

[ManiacJoe]

37. You do realize that everthing from post #5 and below it

is all about hypothetical situations, right?

[Historic NY]

38. No more that Bush with a shoe....

[Cooley Hurd]

40. ...

But, he did!

And didn't nuke Iraq over it!

[Hoppy]

10. Your fuckin' problem is that you have never been assaulted by a skateboard.

Until you have, you have no right to criticize our law enforcement heroes.



















Yes, Mable, its sarcasm.

[Cooley Hurd]

12. ...

[blackspade]

45. Skateboards make lousy weapons.

For starters, effective use means holding them by the trucks which means that the flat side is going to be the side to the opponent.
Unless you are extremely lucky to land a head shot, the broad surface area precludes serious impact force.
Slinging it sideways to make use of the 'edge' is very awkward and easily dodged.
Swinging one is also slow.

So, no, not a deadly weapon like a bat or club.
And any trained cop should know this.

[ManiacJoe]

46. Odd that you think hold it by the trucks would be a good idea.

Yes, I agree that they would make poor weapons; but weapons none the less.

As for being a deadly weapon, you need to brush up on your self defense laws.

[blackspade]

48. Odd, in what way?

[ileus]

47. I know a guy that spend 3 years in jail for killing another kid with a skateboard.

The got in a fight at a skate park, he popped the other kid in the head. Several hours later the other kid showed up in our ER and eventually died from a brain bleed.

[uppityperson]

16. link from Olympia paper with a bit more information. No body or dash cams used. BAH

2 young black men with skateboards? That sounds like it could fit quite a few people at the skateboard park that night.

http://www.theolympian.com/2015/05/21/3737619_two-suspected-shoplifters-shot.html?rh=1

Roberts said the Olympia Police Department doesn’t use body cams or dash cams.

Read more here: http://www.theolympian.com/2015/05/21/3737619_two-suspected-shoplifters-shot.html?rh=1#storylink=cpy

[Jesus Malverde]

44. They might have been armed with beer cans too...nt

[crim son]

49. I know a young man who recently graduated

from the Police Academy here in Bangor. He has expressed surprise at how he was trained to respond to anything that looks like it might be a threat, i.e. literally, react first and think later. As a smart kid he understands this is a problem but acknowledges that not everybody who graduated with him gets it.

[Sunlei]

50. skateboards are the newest weapon

[HassleCat]

51. Too deep, too fast

I will bet any amount of money this is one of those situations where the police officer got in too deep, too quickly, and had to shoot his way out. Cops do this all the time, rush in where some minor crime has been committed, thinking they're going to arrest John Dillinger or somebody. Then they find they're not able to retreat or back down, so they start shooting.

[Jackpine Radical]

52. A terrible and tragic event. Cops are just too ready to shoot.

I do not in any way intend to dismiss or blow off the seriousness of the event nor its implications for our society.

But, having worked around a lot of tragic circumstances as I have, one develops a certain proclivity for Galgenhumor, so I can't quite restrain myself from pointing out that it does give new meaning to "a beer and a shot."