He took them by surprise: 3 dead, 2 hurt in shooting spree (Tennessee)

[Electric Monk]

Source: AP

A gunman killed three relatives in a surprise attack witnessed by several children in a home in eastern Tennessee, authorities said. The 19-year-old attacker was shot and wounded by another family member during his getaway and was captured a short time later, the Sullivan County sheriff's office said. A half-dozen children were in the home during the shooting spree and one girl was injured, Sheriff Wayne Anderson said.

Two women with gunshot wounds were found in the kitchen when authorities arrived Saturday evening, he said. They were pronounced dead at the scene. A man found on the front porch with gunshot wounds was airlifted to a hospital, where he later died, the sheriff said.

(snip)

Darrell Grey said he was on his patio next door when the shooting began. He said he heard a barrage of 10 to 12 gunshots and screaming. The rampage lasted less than a minute, he said.

"Everything happened so fast," he said in a phone interview Sunday. "It was just a barrage of 'pow, pow, pow.'"

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/3-dead-2-injured-shooting-spree-tennessee-165850128.html

---

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017113903

[retrowire]

1. Another day, another shooting. n/t

[valerief]

99. Yep, another day in the Gunited States of America. nt

[Liberal_in_LA]

138. unfortunately more than one a day sometimes

[AuntPatsy]

2. Horrible, so much hate

[hack89]

3. Your self defense poster is deceptive

Why leave out the three other possible outcomes of a DGU? If you want to take the moral high-ground shouldn't you be as honest and accurate as possible?

[GGJohn]

4. Honest and accurate as possible?

[Duckhunter935]

5. It's from VPC

When have they ever been honest?

[pipoman]

10. Politicization of other people's tragedy is all big gun control has left..

[Kingofalldems]

18. Wait--'big gun control' ? As if there was a huge well funded

gun control company. Funny.

[pipoman]

26. There is...

VPC and all of their incarnations are part of it...

[GGJohn]

28. Ummm, how about multi billionaire Mike Bloomberg

and his various gun control groups?

[Kingofalldems]

35. Your side has politicians bought and paid for.

As if Bloomberg spends billions on gun control.

[GGJohn]

37. You don't think Mr. Bloomberg has any politicians on his payroll?

[Kingofalldems]

41. No.

Gimme my guns!!!

[GGJohn]

42. Wow!!!!

I guess some are more easily fooled than others.

[Kingofalldems]

43. Right back at you.

BTW, the NRA is a republican organization, I do hope you are not a fan.

Look at their board members before you come back and say they support some Dems.

[GGJohn]

44. Hey, I'll be the first to admit that sometimes I'm easily fooled at times,

but I'm not gullible enough to believe that someone like Mr. Bloomberg, a former politician, with his billions, doesn't have any politicians in his pocket.

Anyways, have a good night.

[Kingofalldems]

45. Maybe for something but not gun control

He's a republican so I am sure he greases palms for his business interests sometimes.

[GGJohn]

46. I never said gun control,

but I do agree with you that he does grease palms for his business interests.

[Duckhunter935]

48. The NRA has a top notch gun safety program

Quite unlike those "gun safety" organizations. The political side sucks ass and I disagree with that part intensely.

[trillion]

66. Don't be stupid. The things that have been coming out of the nra even include no gun checks what so

ever. Arming little kids -which they pander to in magazine ads, and pro all assault weapons. They are NOT about safety. They are only about gun sales. They even fought to forbid the government from keeping gun statistics which they've had in law since the 70s.

[beevul]

68. Simply untrue.

The things that have been coming out of the nra even include no gun checks what so ever.

Simply not true, and pretty much everyone knows that, including some of people that hate the nra the most, no doubt.

Arming little kids -which they pander to in magazine ads..."

Its the parents that make that choice. The kids can't just go buy guns on their own.

...and pro all assault weapons.

I'm a gun owner. I haven't bought a gun in ten years. I don't carry a gun, nor own any so called 'assault weapons'. I'm not an nra member, nor have I been for over 20 years. I'll tell you point blank: the so called 'assault weapon menace' is overhyped, overblown, and misplaced, in its entirety. Full stop.

They even fought to forbid the government from keeping gun statistics which they've had in law since the 70s.

Another assertion which just isn't true.

There are plenty of legitimate reasons to bash the nra, and theres never an excuse for making things up.

[Duckhunter935]

71. Well those are outright lies

site some links to those positions and lets see if you can substantiate your lies. I bet you can not. Funny since they came up and supported the NICS instant check. How are those so called "gun safety" organizations at firearms safety training?

[pipoman]

95. It is funny how so many believe and parrot lies

About this subject. It really isn't helpful to your cause. People pipe this nonsense, are immediately proven to be wrong or lying, then their entire position is disregarded as based on false information...

[Duckhunter935]

36. Yes Bloomberg and his billions

[PatrickforO]

52. 'Big gun control???'

I'm sorry pipoman. I gotta call bunkum on this one. Look at my post below and you'll see that the big money was NOT from gun control, it was BLOOD MONEY that flowed into my state from the NRA.

And please don't tell me about background checks being slippery slopes because we're ON ONE NOW.

[GGJohn]

54. Then why was the pro recall forces out spent 6-1 by the anti recall forces? eom.

[PatrickforO]

55. Why were the pro recall forces FROM OUT OF STATE?????

Sorry, it won't wash. I live here, in Littleton, and I lived through the Columbine tragedy and later the Arapahoe High School tragedy, and even later the Aurora theater shooting.

And I'll tell you something. The fact that three of our legislators were RECALLED for voting their conscience because of an OUT OF STATE campaign by the NRA is UNCONSCIONABLE. It's NOT OK. It will NEVER be OK.

People are dead. For God's sake there's a MASS SHOOTING EVERY DAY. How is that OK???

So a bunch of people can own a bunch of guns they don't need. You hunt? Great. Use rifles and shotguns. Keep them safe. No problem.

But answer me this: WHY is it OK for us to purchase handguns, semiautomatic weapons, assault weapons. The ONLY purpose for these is killing. So we have the giant, throbbing NRA propaganda machine that steps on the skulls of the dead so the merchants of death can sell MORE GUNS whose only purpose was ever killing.

And one more thing about the 2nd Amendment. You know what the original purpose of a well armed militia was? It was to keep the slaves docile.

So I don't care, you see, who spent how much. We have a problem and we need it solved. You can sit here and refute me all you want, but if it happens to you or your loved ones, you'll be singing a different tune. Just like me.

[GGJohn]

57. So when did Micael Bloomberg move to CO?

For that matter, when did the Giffords move there?

[GGJohn]

58. Ok, by the numbers.

Sorry, it won't wash. I live here, in Littleton, and I lived through the Columbine tragedy and later the Arapahoe High School tragedy, and even later the Aurora theater shooting

What difference does it make if I live in CO or not? We had our own tragedy here in AZ with Gabby Giffords shooting, so don't lecture me about shootings.

And I'll tell you something. The fact that three of our legislators were RECALLED for voting their conscience because of an OUT OF STATE campaign by the NRA is UNCONSCIONABLE. It's NOT OK. It will NEVER be OK.

The fact that you don't seem to know that it wasn't 3 legislatures that were recalled leads me to believe that you don't want to hear the truth, it was 2 that were recalled, the 3rd resigned rather than face the voters.
So, why is ok for out of staters like Mr. Bloomberg and Gabby Giffords to spend money to defeat the pro recall forces, but not ok for out of staters to spend money to recall those lawmakers?
Hypocrisy much?

People are dead. For God's sake there's a MASS SHOOTING EVERY DAY. How is that OK???

Who ever said that it's ok?

So a bunch of people can own a bunch of guns they don't need. You hunt? Great. Use rifles and shotguns. Keep them safe. No problem

Who are you to determine what one needs? I keep handguns for a variety of reasons, I also have an AR-15 for predators that try to take down my livestock.

But answer me this: WHY is it OK for us to purchase handguns, semiautomatic weapons, assault weapons. The ONLY purpose for these is killing. So we have the giant, throbbing NRA propaganda machine that steps on the skulls of the dead so the merchants of death can sell MORE GUNS whose only purpose was ever killing.

Because the Supreme Court says we can, that's why.
BTW, those firearms aren't designed to kill, they're designed to propel a projectile down a hollow tube, how it's used is up to the person holding it.

And one more thing about the 2nd Amendment. You know what the original purpose of a well armed militia was? It was to keep the slaves docile.

Bullshit!!! It was too prevent having a standing army, it was to provide citizen protection of the new country.

So I don't care, you see, who spent how much. We have a problem and we need it solved. You can sit here and refute me all you want, but if it happens to you or your loved ones, you'll be singing a different tune. Just like me.

It has happened to me, and a lot of my comrades, and I am still singing the same tune I did 50 years ago.

[crim son]

100. "It has happened to me, and a lot of my comrades, and I am still singing the same tune I did 50..."

The statement says a lot about you, but there are rules here at DU so I won't spell it out.

[GGJohn]

101. I don't blame an inanimate object for the death of a relative or my comrades,

I blame the person holding the weapon and those that sent us to a useless war for those deaths.

And I could give a damn what you think of me, I'm very comfortable in my beliefs.

[beevul]

69. Ahem: Bloomberg Spends $764,232.35 Buying Oregon background check bill.

1. Everytown for Gun Safety Action Fund - $764,232.35 Ahem Bloomberg funded.

http://www.golocalpdx.com/news/top-10-biggest-spending-lobbyist-groups-during-oregons-2015-legislative-ses

And I'll tell you something. The fact that three of our legislators were RECALLED for voting their conscience because of an OUT OF STATE campaign by the NRA is UNCONSCIONABLE. It's NOT OK. It will NEVER be OK.

The question is, is some out of state spending more equal than others, in your eyes?

And one more thing about the 2nd Amendment. You know what the original purpose of a well armed militia was? It was to keep the slaves docile.

Nope. It was to restrict government. No more, no less.

And your 'out of state' argument, certainly doesn't fly in the case of Angela Giron. That's a district historically OWNED by Democrats.

[PatrickforO]

97. How about we just get rid of handguns and assault weapons?

[GGJohn]

98. How about we just get rid of handguns and assault weapons?

How about NO.

[pipoman]

96. So misguided it is hard to know where to start...

[GGJohn]

56. Here's a breakdown of the money spent on the recall effort.

http://sunlightfoundation.com/blog/2013/12/10/did-guns-beat-money-in-colorado-recalls/

This year, two Colorado state senators became the beneficiaries of at least $4 million in contributions, much of it from out-of-state interests including New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg. Despite the influx of cash, they lost their seats in September recall elections that became a proxy for the bitter national gun debate.

Political Party Time: Sandy Hook hasn't dampened pols' enthusiasm for gun fundraisers.

In an unusual political twist, the anti-recall forces appear to have vastly outspent the gun rights advocates. Pro-gun groups active in the recall reported collecting some $606,000, two-thirds of which can be traced to the Washington-based National Rifle Association. All of the money was focused on determining the political futures of Colorado Senate President John Morse and Sen. Angela Giron, two Democrats who prior to this year had raised a combined total of $361,500 for their earlier campaigns. See the details, compiled from campaign finance records available via Sunlight's Influence Explorer — for Giron here and Morse here.

Contributions to Recall groups



Recall Group Total Receipts
Pro Recall Anti Recall


Committee to Recall John Morse $30,017 Pro
El Paso Freedom Defense Committee $84,119 Pro
National Rifle Association Committee to Restore Coloradoans' Rights $397,153 Pro
Pueblo Freedom and Rights $95,017 Pro
A Whole Lot of People for John Morse $872,612 Anti
Planned Parenthood Votes Colorado Independent Expenditure Committee $59,036 Anti
Planned Parenthood Votes Colorado Issue Committee $20,000 Anti
Pueblo Taxpayers for Responsible Government $14,800 Anti
Pueblo United for Angela $756,234 Anti
Taxpayers for Responsible Democracy $726,189 Anti
We Can Do Better Colorado $505,325 Anti
We Can Do Better Coloraso Issue Committee $403,647 Anti
We Can Do Better Independent Expenditure Committee $131,195 Anti

As you can see, the pro recall forces were vastly outspent by the anti recall force.

[pipoman]

61. Yep...the groups which dominate the issue

Really aren't interested in reducing murders or violence or getting ubc's....ubc's have been their sole fundraising hysteria since 1994. Oh yeah, its gone by other names most notably "the gun show loophole", but the same constitutionally impossible issue it has been since the Brady Bill eliminated intrastate private sales in the original bill.

Twenty years and truckloads of donations to the cause wasted lobbying Washington for bills they know are constitutionally impossible when instead they could have been lobbying states. They could be doing free background checks for private sales at the gun shows they are so rabidly attacking (another completely futile tactic...almost negligent to the cause)...no, big gun control exists and it will fight anything which may reduce any of their fund raising talking points.

[trillion]

64. Sounds like a desperate plea to keep you guns in a world that is changing.

We've seen the gun owners now and we want to make sure most of these unfit people don't have guns.
I'll vote for all gun control legislation because of who you gunnuts are.

[beevul]

70. Got your mind made up on all 80 million of them, do you?

We've seen the gun owners now and we want to make sure most of these unfit people don't have guns.

Got your mind made up on all 80 million of them, do you?

Yeah, the 99.9 percent who never misuse a firearm are the problem.

I'll vote for all gun control legislation because of who you gunnuts are.

You are unwilling to differentiate us from the misusers. and its because of that and you, and who we are - members of that 99.9 percent, that we fight against you the way we do.

And its why we will never give up.

[phylny]

107. When you never give up trying to help solve the problem of mass murders

and gun violence, let us know.

[Lizzie Poppet]

119. I'll be up front: I'm far less concerned about mass shootings...

...than I am about garden-variety gun-related homicides, those with one (and sometimes two) people shot and killed. Why? Because they occur in vastly greater numbers than mass shootings. Moreover, dealing with them will likely require very different steps than dealing with mass shootings. They tend to be carried out by very different people, for very different reasons.

[phylny]

142. I don't disagree,

and would like to see gun enthusiasts work for the reduction of all gun violence. I have nothing against gun ownership. I am not interested, but many people are. I've done target shooting before, years ago. In our community (Moneta, Va where the shooting of the news crew was last week) there are lots of sports hunters and food hunters. I don't get the thrill of the former, don't need the latter for food. The culture is different than I grew up with, I just don't hear many gun owners or enthusiasts saying, "Yes, we need to do something." It seems to be more, "No, no, no, no restrictions at all."

[Lizzie Poppet]

144. I try to be a voice among gun enthusiasts for resonable reforms.

I'm a pretty serious competitive shooter (long range rifle stuff, to be specific), and I also have a couple pistols for defensive purposes which I spend a lot of range time with (if you don't practice, they're useless for self-defense...). That brings me into contact with other shooters on a regular basis. I realize it's only anecdotal evidence, but I find that the majority support some reasonable additional regulations (like universal background checks, which we now have in Oregon). Some are hardline types who even want most existing regulations rolled back, but they're a minority. Thankfully, since they're wrong.

As an aside, I run into some interesting dynamics at the range, particularly the one where I practice long-range stuff and I'm well known by the regulars. I kinda stick out among the usual clientele (a shrimpy, vaguely gothy-looking female w/ piercings...not odd for Portland, but not your typical shooter). That's led to some interesting comments from time to time, although very seldom anything truly negative or sexist. The closest to the latter are usually well-intentioned offers of advice/instruction, which I appreciate, even if I don't usually need it. Over the years I've been doing this, I've had some of my own preconceptions altered about the shooting crowd (and in particular the long-distance rifle competition folks). While the majority are conservative, for sure, very few are overtly racist or misogynist, and loud-mouthed comments along those lines are poorly received. Many are well-educated and erudite. A lot of the stereotypes I've seen repeated here on DU are simply not applicable to most of those guys and gals...and I like to think I've countered a few that they might have had about liberals (and maybe even solialists like me, but that might be a big ask!).

[pipoman]

80. See you don't get to vote for unconstitutional laws no matter how you wish for them..

Which is why I said this is all gun controllers have left..

[ileus]

73. It's all they have...they need stories like this to bring in donations.

bloomy can't be the only sugar daddy of the controllers forever.

[tabasco]

103. Other people's tragedy?

I consider it my tragedy when my nation is overwhelmed with gun violence. Maybe it's not a tragedy for you when a classroom full of kids is massacred, but it is for me. "Big gun control" - LOL. All you care about is your precious and your paranoia about losing it is obvious.

I want a ban on everything except shotguns and bolt-action rifles. If you can't defend your home with a shotgun, you can't defend it with a pistol.

[pipoman]

106. There is a difference between having a public conversation about it

And using the tragedy of others to make political points...

What you want hasn't shit to do with reality or what is possible which makes it nothing more than closing your eyes and clicking your heels. Feel free to waste your time and demean the tragedy of others with your fantasies...it's a free country...lack of tact and tastlessness isn't illegal, help yourself....

Oh, and I'm not worried about anything...Big Gun Control hasn't made headway in a single front in 25 years...on the contrary...it appears it is you who is unable to accept the truth..

[tabasco]

118. LOL!

Poor wittle baby. The big mean Big Gun Control wants to take your toys away.

May you never become a victim of America's "well-regulated militia."

Times change and so does the Supreme Court. The absurdity of America's irrational gun laws will end someday. Then, you will have to join the Army to play with semi-autos and machine guns. That's what I did. Two combat tours in the infantry. I feel confident in my ability to protect my home with a shotgun and a bolt action. Too bad you feel so weak and paranoid.

[pipoman]

120. Wishful thinking of a very few pretenders....

A new SCOTUS won't make shit up. Why not just amend the constitution? Oh...yeah...nowhere near a majority (even here on DU) supports that....the crying is all you...

[Electric Monk]

12. Why don't you take it up with the DU Admins? It's their graphic. You're on their website.

The usual suspects sure showed up quick to this thread. Did someone post a link to it from ar-15.com or something?

[hack89]

16. So truth and accuracy mean nothing to you personally ?

Or is it simply that the DU gun control movement has yet to move beyond cartoons and bumper sticker slogans? No wonder gun control is a smoking wreck in America.

[Electric Monk]

20. Everythng in the graphic is accurate, despite your whining about not including other info you'd like

which are much harder to document and prove, and which your side has been caught lying about before.

[hack89]

21. So the CDC lied about DGUs? Really? Nt

[hack89]

22. Lying by omission is still lying

Unless you think that every DGU has to end with a death. Is that what you believe?

[Electric Monk]

63. Please take up your case with EarlG, DU Admin, because that's his graphic, not mine. nt

[hack89]

76. Can't think for yourself? ok. nt

[muriel_volestrangler]

67. You want gun injuries listed too?

http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/nfirates2001.html

unintentional 16864
assault 62220
legal intervention 1183
self-harm 3991

[hack89]

75. We are talking about DGUs. nt

[muriel_volestrangler]

77. We're talking about the effect of guns in the USA

The OP, for instance, is not just about a 'DGU'. Firearm injuries are a quantifiable result of American gun availability.

[hack89]

83. My post was specific to the misleading picture he posted with his OP

I just think gun controllers don't need to lie to make their point, don't you?

[muriel_volestrangler]

85. Your repeated misuse of the word 'lie' is incredibly tedious, and makes you look

like a fanatic who is determined to distort what other people say for partisan reasons.

No, it's not a lie. It doesn't say whatever you'd like it to say, that's all.

Your post was a waste of everyone's time.

[hack89]

86. Ok, so deliberating cherry picking and ignoring facts to support an agenda. Sound better?

I understand that the picture is not meant to be fair or represent reality but to convey an emotional appeal to the faithful. But that still doesn't mean I can't criticize it.

[muriel_volestrangler]

90. They are accurate statistics about deaths from firearms

Maybe the problem is that you see death as just another inconvenience suffered by other people, rather than the one irreversible outcome that is rightly held as by far the most serious problem caused by firearms. The picture is 'fair', and represents reality. The 'faithful' I see are the swarm of gun enthusiasts who leaped to the defence of their favourite inanimate objects, rather than accept the problems their hobby causes.

The thing is, you've accused DUers (including admin) of lying. They weren't, and we're being very lenient with you by not alerting on your bullcrap. Next time, don't accuse people of lying when they aren't.

[hack89]

92. "So much for self defense"

with three of the four possible outcomes of self defense not listed. We are not talking about what is in the picture - we are talking about what is missing.

The picture would be fine with a different title. But if you are going to prove that there is no such thing as using guns for self defense, don't you feel the slightest bit obligated to be truthful and honest in your argument instead of ignoring inconvenient facts?

[hack89]

94. CDC: "Guns are used for self-defense often and effectively"

Earlier this year, President Obama ordered the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to assess the existing research on gun violence and recommend future studies. That report, prepared by the Institute of Medicine and the National Research Council, is now complete. Its findings won’t entirely please the Obama administration or the NRA, but all of us should consider them. Here’s a list of the 10 most salient or surprising takeaways.

7. Guns are used for self-defense often and effectively. “Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year … in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008,” says the report. The three million figure is probably high, “based on an extrapolation from a small number of responses taken from more than 19 national surveys.” But a much lower estimate of 108,000 also seems fishy, “because respondents were not asked specifically about defensive gun use.” Furthermore, “Studies that directly assessed the effect of actual defensive uses of guns (i.e., incidents in which a gun was 'used' by the crime victim in the sense of attacking or threatening an offender) have found consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies.”

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/human_nature/2013/06

So it looks like the CDC disagrees with the notion that there is no such thing as effective self defense with guns.

[GGJohn]

24. Nice little snide remark.

ar-15.com?
You sure seem to know alot about that site.

[Duckhunter935]

38. That seems to be his go to site

Must frequent it a lot. I think I went there once or twice from google links on sights and magazine research.

[GGJohn]

39. I've never been there,

I just assumed that it was a site about the AR-15.

[Duckhunter935]

47. Discussion board

Maybe looked about 3 times at it after linking on Google search. Much better reviews on YouTube.

[Thinkingabout]

6. There are not any safe places, guns is ruining this country.

[GGJohn]

7. Bullshit!!!

The vast majority of the US is very safe, the homicide rate has been halved since the 90's, you're safer now than 20 years ago.

[Thinkingabout]

19. There have been lots of mass shootings, people with guns in their possession who does not have the

Capability of the proper time and place to use a weapon. Dont talk about bullshit, get the gun owners the proper and safe ways to handle weapons.

[ileus]

74. It's really safe here...

[Thinkingabout]

115. Where?

[ileus]

116. SWVA...between Wytheville and Bluefield

[Thinkingabout]

117. The people who sent their children to school thought they were safe also, the people who has went to

theaters thought they were safe also, the people who went to bible sturdy thought they were safe, the deputy who was pumping gas thought he was safe also. Mentally disturbed people can change safety with one gunshot. Unless you have a plan to halt the killings you are not safe either.

[phylny]

143. It was safe in Moneta, too.

Last week there was a brutal shooting, remember?

[ileus]

145. One hour away...you betcha.

My DW has to carry every day because of dismissed mad patients.

That being said it's still pretty safe, you just have to be prepared as best you can.

[Doctor_J]

8. a whole house full of good guys with guns

Yet the outcome is similar to all of the others. Maybe Looney lapete is not telling the truth!

[GGJohn]

9. And one of those good guys shot and wounded the killer,

which helped the cops capture him.

[Doctor_J]

13. yeah, when he was running away

So the good guy with the gun, and all of the other good guys with guns, saved zero lives.

[GGJohn]

15. Where in the story does it say all the others had firearms? eom.

[George II]

17. About three murders too late.

[GGJohn]

23. True, but it could have been a lot worse if there hadn't been a person armed to stop

the rampage.

[George II]

25. And a lot better if none of them had guns.

[GGJohn]

27. No, only if one of them didn't have a firearm.

Firearms are here to stay, not all shootings can be eliminated, even with a total ban on firearms, which you and I and every reasonable person knows will never, ever happen.

[onehandle]

30. Firearms are here to stay?

Really?

Are you reeeeeeeeeeeeeealy sure?

You seem really sure?

Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeealy?

[GGJohn]

31. Oh, I am reeeeeeeeeeeeeealy sure!

Over 320 million firearms in this country that's known about, how many unknown is up for speculation.
Yeah, they're here to stay.

[onehandle]

33. I don't see the words 'legally' or 'sales' in your psychic prediction.

You may be clinging to a technicality.

[GGJohn]

34. What does that have to do with this? eom.

[Eleanors38]

121. I am!

[LanternWaste]

91. Cling to the hypothetical.

Cling to the hypothetical. It's often the best claim we have available.

[GGJohn]

93. There's no hypothetical here.

Another family member was armed, he did shoot the killer and very likely stopped the killing spree.

[msongs]

11. gun owner nt

[pipoman]

14. Another day, another opportunistic dance in the blood

Of people you don't know, eh? What a great way to spend a Sunday....

[Electric Monk]

29. Reporting news you'd rather not hear is "dancing in their blood"? How callous of you. nt

[GGJohn]

32. Reporting news is fine,

but you took it a step further and politicized it with your posting of the graph.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

40. 'politicized it'.

It is political. It ALWAYS is political, whether you want it to be or not, because politics decides how many of these damnfools can get their hands on firearms, and how easily they can do it. With 30k gun deaths a year in this country, it's going to stay political until we can finally quit pretending that the solution is anything other than political.

[Duckhunter935]

49. And better mental health

Might cut that by two thirds as they are suicides.

[GGJohn]

50. 2/3rds of those firearm deaths are suicide,

are they political?
Was the shooter acting on political beliefs?

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

81. Well, you could say yes, since assisted suicide is only legal in what, 3 states?

But a problem being political does not mean the person doing it was 'acting on political beliefs' to anyone except you.

It means, as I said in my previous comment, that it is a problem that requires political (legislative) changes to alter it significantly.

[PatrickforO]

51. Another gun doing its job keeping us all safe...

But the NRA is mighty. In Colorado, our state legislature passed a law about background checks and MASSIVE amounts of NRA blood money started flowing into the state and three of the legislators were RECALLED.

It made me want to puke.

[GGJohn]

53. You do realize that the anti recall forces out spent the pro recall forces

by a margin of 6-1?

So it wasn't "NRA" money that defeated those lawmakers, it was the will of the people and the lack of the anti recall forces to come out and vote.

Also, only 2 were recalled, the third one resigned rather than face recall.
BTW, it was a gun in the hands of a good guy that may have prevented a bigger tragedy.

[NBachers]

59. So how many posts in this thread are about the victims and their tragic deaths? Hijacked again

[Le Taz Hot]

88. Thank you.

I was going to post something similar until I saw this.

[pipoman]

105. Hijacked by the OP?

You know, the one who made it about his/her ideology instead of about the victims....open a door and people will walk through...

[Eleanors38]

122. Hijacked by the OP? Didn't notice anything "about victims and their tragic deaths."

One thing I have noticed repeatedly about gun/controllers/prohibitionists is how so few lead off their OPs expressing Any concern about "victims and their tragic deaths," but spew a lot of hatred toward fellow DUers who support the Second Amendment. I think this comes from the mistaken belief that expressions of animosity and disdain are synonymous with "compassion," and they get a free ride accusing others of callousness. Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

Surely, you have noticed this NBachers.

Over and over.

[alcibiades_mystery]

60. Poor impulse control is a real thing

Firearms intensify its consequences.

Dead. Wounded. Prison. Trauma.

Just another day in East Gunistan.

[Aerows]

62. Dammit. Our nation

is a good one, but we can do a lot better than this.

[trillion]

65. Thank goodness that family had a gun! That's really working out for them.

Too bad they can't be here to defend guns at all cost even though they have a disturbed son around.

[Live and Learn]

78. Yep, and too bad many don't realize

how easy it it is for either themselves or family members to slip over the line of sanity, even if only temporarily, with deadly consequences.

[ileus]

72. Glad someone in the family was halfway ready to protect lives when it mattered most.

[liberal N proud]

79. The wild west wasn't this bloody

The wild west portrayed by Hollywood was never this bloody. Another week, another mass shooting!

How many this week?

[Vinca]

82. Proof once more having a gun in your home doesn't save you.

The attacker was shot by another family member while making his getaway, not before killing other family members. Urging everyone to have guns gives them false security. Few people are constantly at the ready to fire off a round. If someone bursts into your house shooting, you're most likely screwed even if your home is armed like a military installation. Fewer guns overall is the answer . . . look at Australia.

[TeddyR]

84. Everyone wants to trot out Australia as an example

If you prefer Australia's gun policies then move there. Or if you want the US to look more like Australia then work to repeal the 2d Amendment and all of the state constitutions that protect the individual right to keep and bear arms. Otherwise, the US is never going to look like Australia. And instead of blaming "gunz" -- inanimate objects that don't shoot people on their own -- let's blame the criminals that use those weapons illegally.

[Vinca]

87. And let's blame the toddlers who pick up dad's loaded handgun and

blow him away. Let's blame the irate wife who just found out hubby's having a fling and conveniently grabs the loaded gun in the nightstand and takes care of the problem. How about the teenage girl who is tired of being bullied and decides to kill herself with mom's pistol? Let's blame everybody because surely an implement of death cannot be the problem. And, yes, we should work to be more like Australia when it comes to guns.

[GGJohn]

89. Well then, as Teddy said,

either move to Australia or work to get the 2A and state constitutions repealed.
Seems simple enough.

[Vinca]

110. Believe it or not, I don't think it's the laws that are the problem.

It's the mindset. When I was growing up in the 1950's, guns were for hunting and for the police to have. Somewhere along the line, Americans have been convinced that guns are as much a requirement in life as having a refrigerator. At what point did we all become each other's enemies? As for the "move to Australia" comments, I suspect a whole lot of paid commenters use that one.

[Eleanors38]

124. At the end of the 1960s there were far more homicides in the U.S....

with fewer people and with fewer guns.

Whatever the change you remark on, we have had fewer gun deaths for some time since the 1960s. Why do you think that is?

[Vinca]

128. I imagine if the death happens to be of your loved one it doesn't matter.

Why do you suppose we have about 1 mass killing a week (defined as 4 victims, I believe) and Australia has had none since they decided everyone doesn't need to possess a gun? Our image around the world is horrible and it's not because the food is bad. If you can condone everyone having guns after Sandy Hook, I will never convince you 300 million guns in America is bad.

[Eleanors38]

133. In terms of my and society's well being, it doesn't...

You are in gross error with your data.

Mass killing (as you defined it) occurs about twice A YEAR. Even the gun-slinging Mother Jones concedes this. You are probably confused by the All New! expression used by some, "mass shooting," wherein (presumably) there are four victims (not deaths) in one setting. This new term, rapidly popularizd by the almost wholly anti-gun MSM, seems to be replacing the old and rather stable "mass murder" definition, but we don't have a clue as to how many "mass shootings" there were 3, 5, 10, 30, 40 years ago; up or down, domestic or institutional (schools, theaters, etc), or who the perpetrators are.

But we DO get an "assault weapon phenomenon." It looks like a machine gun, so it IS a machine gun because the game rules have been changed, even created anew.

Meanwhile, gun murders have dropped by about a third since the "booming" 60s, and the number of people AND guns has increased massively.

[Vinca]

134. I'm afraid there is no arguing with a gun lover.

[Eleanors38]

135. Your choice. As an aside, I refrain from using the "______-lover" expression

when I argue and discuss with others, as it suggests an intolerant and prejudicial disposition toward others. This country has a long tradition of calling others

"______ -lovers."

[Vinca]

136. Oh good heavens. That's ridiculous.

Shall I refer to you as "the usual suspect" as I noticed someone else call you in another post re guns?

[Eleanors38]

137. Among the other epithets, "usual suspect" is pretty mild...

Where and when I grew up informs my concern over the expression.

Also of concern is the use of "ammosexual," whose negative impact would not exist had it not been constructed upon the term "homosexual," which has been used for a long time in a disparaging manner; in fact few even use the term now, except perhaps as a dated clinical term.

One term has a racial/ethnic component; the other a denigrating sexual component.

[Vinca]

139. You're taking political correctness to a whole new level.

I don't dare call myself an "animal lover" now. Too close to . . . you know.

[Eleanors38]

140. Actually, tRump has done that in reverse...

It's all in the intent. And the history.

[Vinca]

141. I agree.

But how you get from "gun lover" to "_____ lover" is beyond astonishing.

[Eleanors38]

146. Here is what's astonishing:

"Ammosexual" will not be hidden (it's been tested). But the term of art which requires "hoplo-" be combined with "-phobe" will and has been hidden. I have been hidden for referencing Chicago's former gun laws (no longer extant, courtesy of the McDonald decision) as a vestige of Jim (large, raucous black bird) Laws; one juror c!aimed she/he didn't understand the term's use, but would "hide" me anyway! Ever since, I continue to use the cumbersome description above IF the topic is gun laws.

[Vinca]

147. Political correctness run amok.

When did Dems become such tender flowers?

[ileus]

111. You have to have it on your person in order for a firearm to save lives.

[Vinca]

112. And it has to be aimed and ready to fire 24/7. Is that logical?

I used to be a gun owner. I was a police officer in my younger days and after I retired from doing that I put the gun back in its box and put it on a shelf. There was no need for me to keep it out. If someone had broken into the house in the middle of the night, if I had wanted to shoot the person - and I'm a pretty good shot - I would have had to retrieve the gun, load it and aim. I'm sure that's typical of most gun owners who are not 2nd amendment zealots. After about 10 years of being on the shelf I sold it through a local gun dealer so there would be a background check. It's been years and I'm still alive! Imagine!

[tabasco]

102. If only they'd had guns to protect themselves!

Oh they did.

[cynzke]

104. Its Our Current Culture!

Bottom line. No matter what weapons we try to limit or control, we sit by and ignore a key component of the problem. We are bombarded through various forms of media today, that you solve your perceived problems through violence. You are wronged, kill the person who wronged you. That is what movies, videos, games, TV shows all suggest you do and usually in the end, you are a hero because you settled a score and got away with it. Now, most people understand fantasy from reality. But after decades of this, what do you expect. Kids were born and exposed to this mindset. It has taken hold. We are obsessed with guns, because our culture of worshiping guns is tolerated and ignored. Then we have a strong lobby doing everything to keep the mfg. and sales thriving.

[olddots]

108. guns , alcohol and tobacco

the rights of dumbth .

[BigDemVoter]

109. I'm over 50-years-old now. . . .

I remember when even ONE gun massacre would draw attention for weeks. . . . I'm ashamed to admit that I am so jaded now that I don't typically even read stories any more about attacks, as there are so many. It seems that we are seeing them weekly now if not more often. But of course, "Guns don't kill people; people kill people." Hmmm. I wonder if these Einsteins ever thought that if people didn't have guns, maybe it wouldn't happen? The argument that we would see other weapons used doesn't fly. It's much easier to run from somebody with a knife than from somebody with a gun (oh yes, and an assault rifle at that!).

[potone]

113. When will this end?

When will we address this problem seriously? I just don't understand the mindset of people who are opposed to reasonable forms of gun control, not an outright ban on all firearms. And no, longer prison sentences will do nothing to deter people who shoot other people in a fit of rage.

[Eleanors38]

130. Speaking of mindsets, have you considered changing your own?

There have been efforts to effect controls and bans for over 50 years in this country. Currently, the RKBA is more liberalized than ever before. This suggests the "mindset" or other actions and policies used by controller/banners need a complete reassessment. I believe Einstein spoke to this.

[Arugula Latte]

114. Well, the important thing is that no one's gun rights were infringed!

Now THAT would have been a tragedy! As it is, it was only human lives that got snuffed out.

[Paladin]

123. Do you gun rights types ever get tired of fronting for the Shitheads?

Does the malignancy of that "Your deaths don't trump my rights" credo ever sink in and give you some trouble?

Bonus points for honest responses.

[Eleanors38]

125. Buy you a Lone Star at HH if you ask an honest question. nt

[Electric Monk]

127. That's the thing about glib sociopaths. They tend to act like glib sociopaths.

http://www.thenation.com/article/gun-talk-your-host-glib-sociopath/

[Eleanors38]

126. You didn't, but how do you feel about these deaths? nt

[Electric Monk]

129. Tragic, and preventable, and just one part of a bigger picture. nt

[Eleanors38]

132. Thank you. I feel the deaths are tragic. Preventability is possible

to a degree; the U.S. gun-death rate has fallen significantly over two generations. I don't know how you mean by "big picture," but that is worth exploring.

[HassleCat]

131. If they had been armed...

Oh, they were armed, weren't they? I guess the lesson here is to keep that gun in your hand at all times, round in the chamber, safety off, locked and loaded, baby! (Revolver fans, adapt these instructions as necessary.)

[rockfordfile]

148. gun nuts/nra

It's the nra/republican types that help promote a gun culture. It's sad that people have to lose their lives to this everyday.