Putin Reportedly Sending 150,000 Troops to Syria to Wipe Out ISIS

[big_dog]

Source: New Indian Express/Daily Star 4th Oct 2015 3:00PM



LONDON: Russian President Vladimir Putin is reportedly sending soldiers to Syria to wipe out the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS).

According to The Daily Star, he is apparently mounting an enormous military mission to take control of the terror group's stronghold of Raqqa.

Raqqa is the self-declared capital of ISIS which is patrolled by as many as 5,000 jihadi members.

Putin is set to mobilise 150,000 reservists whom he conscripted into the military earlier this week.


Read more: http://www.newindianexpress.com/world/Putin-Reportedly-Sending-150000-Troops-to-Syria-to-Wipe-out-ISIS/2015/10/04/article3062511.ece

[virtualobserver]

1. 150,000 expendable soldiers

[COLGATE4]

2. I for one wouldn't lose any sleep if

the Russians took a large piece out of ISIS.

[Xipe Totec]

3. IF that's what they were doing, then yes. Pretty big IF. nt

[COLGATE4]

10. There's no question Putin is attempting to shore up Assad

and the only realistic way to do it now is to do away with ISIS and a host of often reconfiguring other rebel groups who are creating the chaos that is today's Syria. Russia has been Syria's protector and ally for years now, so from Putin's perspective this action is reasonable. He restores Russia's military prestige, cements his position with Assad and gains mightily in the eyes of the rest of the Middle East.

[cheapdate]

26. Only problem is that Syria is an utterly unwinnable quagmire.

[starroute]

34. That's not at all obvious

It would be for the US if we tried to put books on the ground. But that's because we turn everything we touch into a clusterfuck -- and we would be pinning our hopes on "moderate rebels" who don't actually exist.

If Putin can shore up Assad's government while insisting on some form of power sharing with the legitimate opposition, wipe out ISIS and the various al Qaeda clones, and get Iran and the Kurds to act as stabilizing forces, he has every possibility of succeeding.

Putin is a cold-eyed realist. Not a nice man by any standards, but he's not stupid or self-deluding. US strategists in contrast tend to be both.

[cheapdate]

38. I don't know...No one knows. It's inherently a matter of speculation and expectation.

My firm expectation is utter quagmire. Multiple sources are reporting that Assad's forces are seriously diminished and depleted from attrition. ISIS has significant numbers of fighters and weapons and holds real estate throughout the country. The Free Syrian Army (FSA) is a determined, if under-equipped force. Then there is Al Nusra, Kurdish fighters, and other groups and factions.

Everyone is in it for the long haul, I think. Assad is in for keeps. The FSA is fighting for their homeland and are in it for keeps. ISIS is willing to play a long-game and drift into the background. They're in it to win it.

Russia can level towns like Homs, Hama, and Aleppo with artillery as they did in Chechnya. But Russia never took Chechnya and finally abandoned the effort. Russia won't be so much supplementing Assad's struggling army as replacing it with Russian soldiers. Young Russian soldiers fighting multiple hostile irregular enemies in a foreign country. It hasn't worked for them in the past.

I can't see how it will go any differently.

[starroute]

41. I think ISIS is vulnerable - you may be right about the rest

The great weakness of ISIS is that they're trying to hold territory because their claim to be reestablishing the caliphate depends on doing so, and they're trying to do so in a way that is not economically self-sufficient. They're living off looted antiquities and oil. In addition, their philosophy is apocalyptic, and they expect an end-of-days battle in the near future. So they're not really in it for the long haul, and they have no ability to fade into the background.

But assuming Putin can cripple ISIS by depriving it of its territorial base and then pick off much of the rest -- what comes next? Is it possible to restore order in the area, or do we now add Syria to the list of failed states? And is there a domino effect that destabilizes Turkey as well?

I can frankly see it going either way, and I don't think any of us know enough to judge. Saudi Arabia is another wild card -- since they're likely to become increasingly unstable as the oil runs out and they can no longer buy off their own population or import the food to feed a growing number of people in an increasingly desertified land. Have the Saudis been a major source of disorder and will things settle down once they can no longer fund their terrorist proxies? Or will the Middle East collapse into a domain of warlords and pirates?

Too many damn questions -- but Russia is obviously more at risk from any turmoil than we are, and I think Putin feels a need to make his move now, while there's still at least a faint hope of stabilizing the situation.

[cheapdate]

44. Nothing is certain, that's for sure.

Turkey is a big country and fiercely independent. I don't see them becoming unstable. It's a long way from Aleppo to Ankara.

Saudi Arabia could pump oil at the current rate (10-11 million bpd) for 25 years, assuming the proven reserve estimates (~90 billion barrels) are in the ball park and no new fields are discovered. They could reduce production and pump for much longer than that. For the time being, they can do almost as they wish.

Whatever happens might or might not have a monumental impact on the rest of the world.

It's hard to imagine any really good outcomes. Our (American) revolution originated in radical philosophy (deism) that rejected religious dogma and sparked a revolution of ideas that led to a secular republic with liberal freedoms. It's hard to see something like that happening in the Middle East. There's just little space for it.

[rtb61]

63. Easy

Russia will be doing it the simpler more logical way. They will likely be sending in Iranians with Russia providing support all with the backing of the Syrian Army. Contrary to main stream media claims, Europe approves and only Israel and the US disagree. The US has been told by the EU to STFU or else NATO could soon find itself short one particular member or actually a few (only EU members to be allowed to remain).
Russia and the EU reached agreement and it was the EU that told the US to let Russia solve the problem the US and the EU created. The US corporatist are of course furious that EU politicians told them to get knotted whilst the US government is basically accepting what is going to happen, hence the disconnect between main stream media and the US government because NATO is under threat especially after the war provocation chest thumping display of military force in the latest military exercise that most Europeans deplorable and objectionable (obviously organised prior to realising the negative impact it would have).
US membership of NATO is now under the greatest threat it ever has been, their presence is seen as doing nothing but creating huge problems for Europe, generating major business losses, disrupting EU political activities and becoming an direct threat (with NATO obeying the most extreme US politicians and threatening European Politicians with removal or worse).

[MJJP21]

50. Not stupid?

When Putin was in the KGB his superiors made sure to put him where he couldn't cause any trouble. Putin often acts without thinking things through and is impulsive. These character faults are likely to do him in.

[cheapdate]

60. I also have a major problem with the "Putin is brilliant" narrative.

He's just another asshole.

[tabasco]

55. The Russian (Soviet) invasion of Afghanistan is the definition of clusterfuck

The US invasion of Afghanistan, especially since AWOL Bush got out of the picture, has been a stellar success in comparison.

The Iraq invasion was completely unjustified and unnecessary, and decisions primarily by the corrupt AWOL Bush regime (especially Paul Bremer) have resulted in an unmitigated clusterfuck.

I don't believe Russia is sending 150,000 troops to Syria, but if it does, it will be a giant clusterfuck too.

[starroute]

62. A stellar success except for the way the Taliban it taking over again

And we're bombing hospitals in response.

But Afghanistan is a special problem -- mountainous, tribal, and prepared to stop fighting one another and unite in response to any hint of outside intervention. And the US invasion of Iraq was complicated by the Neocon desire to take the place over, steal its oil, and turn it into a free market paradise.

But Syria is relatively porous. It was one of those countries set up by the British and French after World War I and it doesn't have natural borders or a common identity. It's not going to suddenly drop its civil war in order to repel an outside intruder.

In addition, as I suggested above, ISIS has some unique vulnerabilities. It's not a nation -- it's just 100,000 or so mostly untrained recruits held together by the dream of martyrdom and the promise of young women to rape and trying to maintain control over millions of locals. It's also not a 21st century, al Qaeda-style decentralized franchise. It can't pack up and move if it comes under attack -- and it can't fade into the local population.

Now, Putin would have to be canny. He would have to be careful not to overreach. But if he plays his cards right, I do believe he can demolish ISIS, hand things over to his local allies, and get the hell out again. He'll have embarrassed the US, carved out a sphere of indirect influence, and enhanced his own global reputation. And I think that's what he intends.

[AngryAmish]

52. Syria is very winnable. You just have to committ genocide to win.

Daesh is already trying genocide. So were the Alawites.

March the Sunni population south, then you win. Break their dams. Turn off the power. Take the children of Racca. Arm the adults with knives. Tell them to kill everyone in Mosul or the kids get it.

Out Hulagu Daesh.

[cheapdate]

61. That's dark, man!

[Yupster]

56. I disagree

The Assad family has run Syria for many years.

Why do you think what has been done cannot be done?

[cheapdate]

59. Those days are gone.

That was before the uprising, before the civil war, before the destruction of Homs and Aleppo, before the sarin gas attacks, before the barrel bombs, before the rise of ISIS, before the NATO bombing, before the Russian intervention. Damascus is a different city. Four million Syrians have fled.

There's no going back to those days.

[snooper2]

70. Problem is there are moderate rebels fighting POS Assad, if everyone would watch VICE

they would know that-


The only news organization that has had reporters embedded in Syria-



Oh, and FUCK PUTIN

[COLGATE4]

75. I don't believe there is such an animal as a

"moderate rebel" in Syria now. What you have is a series of constantly reconfiguring and re-forming groups with each looking to seek advantage in the present chaos and aligning themselves with the apparent 'winner' of the moment.

[Yo_Mama]

8. That's what he plans - but he will end up owning Syria as a client state

It is an interesting move.

[COLGATE4]

11. I doubt the prospect of that bothers him at all. nt

[big_dog]

12. mossad's unoffical website says the chinese have joined the party too

http://www.debka.com/article/24926/Chinese-warplanes-to-join-Russian-air-strikes-in-Syria-Russia-gains-Iraqi-air-base

[COLGATE4]

13. Starting to look like one big clusterf--k. nt

[Lordquinton]

20. Starting? nt

[840high]

47. +10

[trillion]

64. Agreed. I would be happy if he did. His support of Assad(SP?) has to include actually taking

ISIS out. The US just wants Assad out too.

[former9thward]

65. He is going to take out any opposition to Assad.

ISIS or not.

[COLGATE4]

68. Unfortunately that is probably the only

option at this point.

[OregonBlue]

79. I'm a 66 year old peacenik but I also will lose no sleep over these guys being

decimated. They are so ugly and so brutal I could care less what happens to them.

[COLGATE4]

80. Yep. K&R

[WheelWalker]

4. Well, that would certainly be a paradigm shift

[Rosa Luxemburg]

5. Hope it doesn't end up like Afghanistan

[magical thyme]

6. you need to find a better source...

I think the 150,000 conscripts are routine replacement operations.

[Adsos Letter]

19. This ^

[Duckhunter935]

35. Yep, you are right on

[backscatter712]

7. Looks like it's Russia's turn to be caught in a Middle Eastern quagmire.

Good luck with that, Putin...

To the Russian people, speaking from our experiences in Iraq and Afghanistan, I feel for you.

[cheapdate]

27. Word.

[w0nderer]

57. they've been there before

did they learn anything?
did you?
remains to be seen!


you used to train Afghani resistance fighters...al-quaida or something
whilst soviet forces fought in Afghanistan

let's see what happens when we train people now
and soviets fight them

[Duckhunter935]

9. Nothing new

If you do some research, he has been doing this thing fo a couple of years to send them on vacation to Ukraine.

[Hydra]

14. The question is, what are we going to do about having Russian troops in "Our" Mideast permanantly?

[leveymg]

17. Russia has had bases in Syria since 1971. Longer than they were in Poland. We're not going to do

anything about it at this point.

Regime change failed in bloodiest, awfullest way - created a regional war, just like some of us warned.

[leveymg]

15. Doubtful: Russia has the same conscription system since 1967 - 150K draftees in Spring and Fall.

I think this routine fact has simply been twisted to create an alarming message. I'll wait for another source.

[Chasstev365]

16. Good!

It least its not American kids being used as cannon fatter for unwinnable Mid-East Wars.

[RKP5637]

53. K&R!!! K&R!!! k&R!!!

[cpompilo]

18. Better them than us.

[Demeter]

21. Sincerely doubt that

Putin isn't dumb and gullible and in the oligarchy's pocket, unlike some world leaders I could mention....past, present, and would-be.

[blm]

32. Putin is a billionaire based on his decades of alliance with oligarchs.

.

[Demeter]

33. I don't put stock in rumor, gossip or slander

http://www.newsweek.com/why-putin-isnt-forbes-billionaires-list-310818

[blm]

74. heheh….funny, he's been closely aligned with oligarchs for decades, but,

somehow that's escaped notice.

[MowCowWhoHow III]

22. Five years ago, was one month before the Arab Spring commenced

The good old days, when MENA was 'stable'.

Putin is the Honey Badger of world leaders, so any rumor concerning Russia always seems plausible, 150,000 is a fair few ship fulls tho'.

Meanwhile Turkey is also on a very bad trajectory; implicated up to their necks with Al Nusra/IS , and going crazy almost to the point of civil war with the Kurds (video today of Turkish police dragging a body behind an APC in Sirnak). Who knows how Erdogan would respond to 100,000+ Russians on his doorstep.

Time for a drink.

[daleo]

23. Don't believe it

Too expensive, too dangerous, too stupid.

But to be on the safe side, the west can send twice that many. At least I assume that's the purpose behind the story.

[Demeter]

36. I agree with Lily Tomlin

No matter how cynical you become, it's never enough to keep up.

[restorefreedom]

71. sadly, that quote

applies to most everything these days.

[brentspeak]

24. So the Iraq War might possibly sow the seeds for WWIII

Thanks, Bush/Cheney and all your enablers.

[Dont call me Shirley]

25. Most likely that was their intent. They have a severe bloodlust "I killed the most" mentality.

[book_worm]

28. The Republicans will love Putin even more than they do now.

[applegrove]

29. Putin is saving his own ***. He has more to lose from

an ISIS caliphate than the US.

[sailfla]

30. They went into Afganistan first and didn't do so well. I say let them have at it

[Depaysement]

31. From the Daily Star

"Soviet jets pounded terrorist targets and blew up a command centre, potentially killing dozens of fighters."

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/468212/Putin-ISIS-Islamic-State-Syria-Raqqa-troops-soldiers-air-strike-jets-military

Soviet Jets! Party like its 1979!

This article is a complete joke.

[oberliner]

37. According to the Daily Star or the Daily Mail?

It looks like this actually just BS from the right wing Daily Mail tabloid:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3255876/Russia-pouring-gasoline-fire-Syria-s-civil-war-says-America-Putin-defies-West-drops-bombs-non-ISIS-forces-fighting-Assad.html

[bemildred]

39. It appeared to be arrant bullshit to me. nt

[muriel_volestrangler]

48. The Mail is actually the more reliable paper, but it is most likely BS

In this case, they've gone with something close to reality - they have mentioned the conscripts in the same article, but haven't explicitly stated they're going to be sent to Syria, and at least wrote:

A spokesman for Russian President Vladimir Putin claimed the decree to conscript hundreds of thousands of new troops was not related to the escalating conflict in the Middle East.

Dmitry Peskov, who said Russia is targeting ISIS and other extremist groups, told Sputnik News: 'This is a regular document which the president signs twice a year.'

Whereas the Daily Star (same company as the Daily Express, if you see this taken from there too) has claimed an 'insider':

Putin 'sending 150,000 soldiers to Syria to WIPE OUT evil Islamic State'

...
Putin is set to mobilise 150,000 reservists who he conscripted into the military earlier this week.

An insider revealed: "It is very clear that Russia wants to sweep up the west of the country, taking Raqqa and all the oil and gas resources around Palmyra.

"This is fast becoming a race to Raqqa – to secure the oil fields they need to cleanse the region of insurgents, and the IS capital is vital to do that."

I think it's best to assume this is bullshit from the Star/Express (who would be the last paper I would expect to have an 'insider' in the Russian government). The Express really is worse than the Mail, and I think the Mail is awful.

[oberliner]

49. Didn't realize there was a UK Daily Star

I thought it was maybe the one in Lebanon.

http://www.dailystar.com.lb

[muriel_volestrangler]

67. Very different - the British Daily Star is almost pure entertainment and sport

and scantily clad women (it was started as a competitor to The Sun's Page 3 nudes) with practically no pretense at political or international news reporting, but it's from the same company as the Express (which is a direct competitor of the Mail, but not as successful as it, these days) so they print some of the same stories. It's not surprising anyone outside the UK wouldn't know it, and I think when most British people list national papers, it's often missed since it rarely seems to have anything original in it.

[SummerSnow]

40. The warmongers won't like it

[patsimp]

42. i feel sorry for those soldiers. Great that someone is actually fighting back against

ISIS. Unfortunately, sending reservists instead of professional soldiers suggests he doesn't care if they live or die.

[6chars]

43. That's more than the US sent to Iraq

This will be interesting. I think from both a practical and ethical perspective, the more of ISIS who are killed, the better.

[woundedkarma]

45. 150,000 kids to the slaughter?

So he's sending a bunch of untrained soldiers into that mess? I'd guess most will flee or die.

We've discussed this in comparative gov't and we kept going on the assumption he wants to succeed in Syria.. but I'm starting to wonder what does he gain if he fails?

As for those people who think he's going to enter a "quagmire" ... it's only a quagmire if you feel you have to stay and clean up the mess you created like we (the u.s.) did. What happens when Putin says oops things aren't going my way... and then pulls all his forces out ?

Heck, does the Middle East care about Russia? all the jihadists want to destroy the u.s. How is this not another form of empowering them if he fails to destroy them with his untrained soldiers?

[lovuian]

46. Here is the rub Lets hope Putin

doesn't accidentally bomb Israel or Saudi Arabia

China and Russia seem to be the new players in the Mideast

Not good

[pampango]

51. Recent poll in Russia showed 69% opposed to sending troops to Syria.

Most Russians Oppose Sending Troops To Syria. Slim plurality support sending arms.

More than two-thirds of Russians oppose sending troops to Syria to prop up President Bashar al-Assad’s government, while a majority approve of Moscow’s use of diplomatic and political channels to help its embattled ally in the Middle East, according to a respected independent pollster.

At a time when the Kremlin has been ramping up its military presence in Syria, its largest deployment outside the former Soviet Union in decades, the poll by the Levada Center found that only 14 percent of Russians believe Russia should provide “direct military support” for the Syrian government by sending in troops.

The Levada poll said that 69 percent either firmly oppose or probably oppose deploying troops to help the Syrian leadership, while 67 percent back Russian “political and diplomatic support” for Assad’s government.

It said that 43 percent support providing Damascus with weapons and military consultation — as Moscow has been doing throughout a more than four-year conflict that has killed some 250,000 people — while 41 percent oppose it.

http://www.juancole.com/2015/09/russians-oppose-sending.html

I would be very surprised a Russian leader would send 150,000 troops to fight in Syria after what happened in Afghanistan and that 2/3 of Russians oppose the move.

[CanadaexPat]

54. The Saudis can just take oil prices down even lower

and increase the economic pain. Russia can't win.

[harun]

69. I think that is the real reason. Russia doesn't give a shit about ISIS or the ME.

But low oil prices are a serious problem for them.

[Comrade Grumpy]

58. I scoff at this story. n/t

[restorefreedom]

72. your post reminded me of this

https://m.

[romanic]

66. Great if true.

But I still don't like Putin and his homophobic country (I don't hate Russians, just their attitude towards the LGBT community).

[restorefreedom]

73. i feel bad for the 150,000 redshirts

if true, this will get ugly.

fyi the redshirt was a ref to star trek and not communism

[Scootaloo]

76. In the words of Miracle Max...

[Bloofer]

77. Putin must stay out

Imperialism is out.

[Bradical79]

78. I suppose that's the way to do it.

A big land war is the only way they could be annihilated, and Russia has strong interests there. I'm glad it's not us doing it.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

81. He looks around .He see's ,he notices a lot of stuff going on and junk piling up

<a href="http://photobucket.com/images/putin" target="_blank"><img src="" border="0" alt="putin photo: 2007021101.jpg"/></a>


He thinks about those bushes and wonders ,what would they do about all this stuff going on and what would they do about all the junk piling up .

What would they do ?

<a href="http://photobucket.com/images/putin" target="_blank"><img src="" border="0" alt="putin photo: Putin Vlad3.jpg"/></a>