US Accepts Blame for Afghan Hospital Attack

[bemildred]

Source: VOA

A top U.S. military commander says American forces are responsible for "mistakenly" hitting a hospital in Kunduz, Afghanistan, in an aerial bombardment Saturday that killed 22 people.

Army General John Campbell told a congressional committee in Washington that Afghan forces requested the airstrike on the hospital operated by the international medical charity Doctors Without Borders because Taliban insurgents were firing from the facility.

But he said the U.S. conducted the half-hour-long raid after reviewing the request.

Read more: http://www.voanews.com/content/renewed-fighting-report-in-afghanistan-kunduz/2993274.html

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

1. Whoop de doo. "Accepts blame"

Are we actually going to try some war criminals this time? Or just continue to brush American war crimes under the rug with pitiful payouts to victims' families?

[leftynyc]

2. War crimes are done deliberately

I don't care what MSB is saying, this was not done deliberately.

[Kelvin Mace]

3. We tortured deliberately

We illegally invaded deliberately. We kidnapped people deliberately.

Why is this magically different?

Also, torture was a "war crime", until it wasn't.

And legal technicalities make ZERO difference to the families of the dead.

[840high]

13. ....x10+

[yeoman6987]

29. Sounds like the afghani military has some explanations to add

Seems like it wasn't the fault of the United States at all.

[Kelvin Mace]

30. We take orders from the Afghani military?

[yeoman6987]

35. Ooh. Good point.

Never mind. My reply is dumb.

[geek tragedy]

4. Huh? They're contradicting themselves.

Army General John Campbell told a congressional committee in Washington that Afghan forces requested the airstrike on the hospital operated by the international medical charity Doctors Without Borders because Taliban insurgents were firing from the facility.

But he said the U.S. conducted the half-hour-long raid after reviewing the request.

"To be clear, the decision to provide aerial fire was a U.S. decision made within the U.S. chain of command," Campbell said. "A hospital was mistakenly struck. We would never intentionally target a protected medical facility."

They very clearly meant to hit that building. That specific building. Over and over.

So, what are they going to argue, that they forgot it was a hospital?

Somebody's lucky the US didn't ratify the ICC.

[kristopher]

5. "A building" doesn't equal "a medical facility".

30 years ago I used to be a command post controller in the Air Force, and there are a number of ways something like this could happen innocently. For example, two digits in the grid coordinates could have been transposed - either when they listed the building as a hospital or when the call for assistance came in.

Or maybe it was a deliberate set up by someone or some entity intent on giving the US a black eye - Putin comes to mind.

That's just off the top without knowing their specific procedures and equipment; but I'm positive there are probably dozens of other ways Murphy could show his ugly face. My point is that there is no way I believe it was a deliberate attack on a hospital without absolute proof of motive.

But deliberate or not, it is a great wrong. We need to just get the hell out of that region and de-escalate the military mindset this country has embraced for the past 70 years - that is the only way to guarantee such events don't involve us.

[daleo]

19. It must have been Putin

It is so simple, a five year old can see it.

[kristopher]

24. When you begin an investigation...

...all possibilities are on the table.

The idea that this resulted from an intentional act of deception by an enemy has to be examined or the investigators aren't doing their job. I went directly to Putin as an example because of his nature and his actions in Syria this week.

[Jesus Malverde]

21. Let's stop with the gps nonsense

It was an AC130 firing, in close support of special forces on the ground. This wasn't what some would like to pretend an errant smart bomb. The fire came from a cannon on the plane, which circled and fired for 30 minutes.

[kristopher]

22. How did they know what to target?

[Jesus Malverde]

23. Special forces on the ground called it in...nt

[kristopher]

25. Nope.

This para from the OP is consistent with all recent reports:

Army General John Campbell told a congressional committee in Washington that Afghan forces requested the airstrike on the hospital operated by the international medical charity Doctors Without Borders because Taliban insurgents were firing from the facility.

[Jesus Malverde]

40. You haven't been paying attention

General Campbell said on Tuesday that the gunship had been in communication with American advisers on the ground in Kunduz. But he did not say if anyone involved in the strike realized a hospital was being targeted or if they were reliant on Afghan forces to identify the building to be hit.

“There were not American forward air controllers on the ground?” asked Senator John McCain, an Arizona Republican who heads the Armed Services Committee.

“Sir, we had a Special Operations unit that was in close proximity that was talking to the aircraft that delivered those fires,” General Campbell replied without elaborating.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/07/world/middleeast/doctors-without-borders-airstrike-kunduz.html

[kristopher]

41. Wrong layer of input

The article makes no claim that indicates the action was initiated by US Forces.

The article you've provided is careful to delineate that Afghans were in place and that "the Special Operations Forces also apparently did not have “eyes on” — that is, were unable to positively identify — the area to be attacked to confirm it was a legitimate target before calling in the strike, the officials said."

Tied with the assertion that it was a mission to support Afghan troops, and it is clear that intent by US forces isn't the problem. IMO this discussion is pretty pointless in the effort to stop such events.

To do that, we need to move away from war as an instrument of foreign policy. And, to that end it is more beneficial and to the point to acknowledge the inevitability of tragedies like this during ALL war than it is to try to pin the blame on particular people unless those individuals were acting with malevolent intent.

War is a favored tool of an oligarchy.

Vote for Bernie and support universal military service.

[Laffy Kat]

32. Don't medical facilities have a big red cross on their roof?

Do they still do that? If not, why? This sure does smell rotten.

[TwilightGardener]

6. It doesn't sound like we recognized the target as a functioning hospital with patients.

That's my read on what Gen. Campbell is saying. Yes, we intentionally struck that target. But did our pilots know what that target really was when they struck it? I highly doubt any Air Force crew wants to be known as the crew who bombed innocent patients and doctors. They are largely very decent men and women. I'm willing to bet those involved feel perfectly awful right now, and not just because they're possibly in trouble.

[geek tragedy]

7. the people responsible for calling in air strikes certainly

would have known about the local MSF hospital.

The very best case that can be made is of gross negligence or recklessness.

[TwilightGardener]

9. Well, it was the Afghanis who asked our ground forces to call in the strikes. It's very possible

our guys on the ground trusted them more than they should have, and didn't confirm the target facility's purpose for themselves. I don't believe special forces would deliberately and knowingly call in airstrikes on a functioning hospital, either. Our military generally knows the rules on these things, after 14 years--especially highly-trained personnel and/or officers like special forces and pilots and air crew. I'm going to go with "terrible mistake" until we see evidence otherwise. I, for one, feel I owe the men and women in uniform who have to deploy there the benefit of the doubt--won't assume the worst, until the worst is apparent.

[geek tragedy]

12. all bombing runs need to be approved by the chain of command

someone wearing an officer's uniform really screwed the pooch on this

[uhnope]

28. There's no contradiction., GT

He says yes they fired on the building intentionally, but they didn't know it was a hospital. That's it.

[EX500rider]

8. When operating a hospital in a active war zone..

....it is highly recommended to paint this on the roof:



Especially if the town you are in looks like this from the air:
Kunduz

[daleo]

20. A Red Cross would be just the thing, in Moslem Afghanistan

[EX500rider]

26. Yes it would be...the red cross is a international symbol for 1st aid

as seen on these Afghani ambulances:

[kristopher]

33. Pssst. It's Afghanistan.

[EX500rider]

36. Yes they have the Red Crescent Society...

....but the red cross is still internationally recognized as a medical symbol, as seen on those Afghani ambulances I posted above.

[kristopher]

37. Never said it wasn't.

That has absolutely nothing to do with suggested use of the culturally appropriate symbol on the roof of a hospital, however. Untwist those panties, my friend. Life is too short.

[EX500rider]

44. The Afghans apparently think it is "culturally appropriate" enough to paint it on their ambulances.

[kristopher]

45. I fail to see your point.

Are you offended that the Islamic culture rejects the defacto use of the christian cross? Your carping on a couple of out of context photos is completely incomprehensible.

[EX500rider]

46. My point was I don't think the Afghans are that offended by a red cross on medical..

.....building, etc or they probably wouldn't paint them on their ambulances.

[kristopher]

47. Now, was that really so difficult?

How do you know that "they" painted the cross on those ambulances considering Afghanistan has been the recipient of so much outside assistance?

My opinion is that whenever you go into a foreign culture, respecting local customs and beliefs is, whenever possible, the courteous thing to do.

[Jesus Malverde]

42. The hospital was wearing a short skirt.

Got it!

[EX500rider]

43. No but it was apparently poorly marked from the air.

[Earth_First]

10. Reports I recently read from MSF stated that the building was hit repeatedly...

in 15 minute intervals for just over an hour:

"Doctors Without Borders said its hospital was hit by "a series of aerial bombing raids at approximately 15 minute intervals" between 2:08 and 3:15 a.m. Saturday."

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/05/asia/afghanistan-doctors-without-borders-hospital/

The U.S. military admission that it was "mistakenly hit" implies that a single impact was made erroneously.

According to doctors at MSF, the attack lasted at least twice as long as the U.S. is taking responsibility for...

[bemildred]

11. It was an AC 130 gunship. nt

[Solly Mack]

14. That's nice. All better now!

[bemildred]

16. Hi Solly.

Good to see you around.

[Solly Mack]

17. Hello bemildred.

I spend most of my time in the Photography Group, though I can be lured out when something prickles my sardonic bone.

I hope you're well.

[bemildred]

18. I am well, thank you.

At least as well as one can expect my at age anyway.

I'll check you out sometime down there.

And same to you.

[Jesus Malverde]

15. Accepted blame or

Blamed the afghans. Seems obvious to me.

[DashOneBravo]

27. I saw part of it today

He said that the US military went through the entire process in approving the strike.

Meaning it's on them not the guys who called it in.

[uhnope]

31. Compare this to how Russia never admitted shooting down the MH17 airliner

Russia or its Russian proxy forces in Ukraine.

It's relevant since so many of those like the OP jumping on this hate-bandwagon, exploiting this tragedy to the utmost, are the same ones who downplayed or denied Russia's blame in shooting down a civilian airliner.

Fascinating.

Sick.

[nationalize the fed]

38. Your post reminded me of the time the US shot down an Iranian Civilian Aircraft

killing 290 including 66 children


A 45 rial postage stamp released by Iran on 11 August 1988 titled Disastrous U.S. missile attack against Iranian air liner

Iran Air Flight 655 was an Iran Air civilian passenger flight from Tehran to Dubai. On 3 July 1988, the aircraft operating on this route was shot down by the United States Navy guided missile cruiser USS Vincennes under the command of William C. Rogers III. The incident took place in Iranian airspace, over Iran's territorial waters in the Persian Gulf, and on the flight's usual flight path.



The aircraft, an Airbus A300 B2-203, was destroyed by SM-2MR surface-to-air missiles fired from Vincennes. All 290 on board, including 66 children and 16 crew, died.[1] The cruiser Vincennes had entered Iranian territorial waters after one of its helicopters drew warning fire from Iranian speedboats operating within Iranian territorial limits..

...According to the U.S. government, Vincennes mistakenly identified the Iranian airliner as an attacking military fighter. The officers misidentified the flight profile being flown by the Airbus A300B2 as being similar to that of an F-14A Tomcat during an attack run; however, the ship's own Aegis Combat System recorded the flight plan of the Iranian airliner as climbing (not descending as in an attack run) at the time of the incident...more
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

downplayed or denied Russia's blame in shooting down a civilian airliner.

[uhnope]

39. i remember it well

back when we thought Reagan was going to cause WW3

[flamingdem]

34. The Afghans are either idiots

or freaking evil people who didn't care about the doctors who were helping women and children.

I doubt the US would ever have gone near a hospital, it was a mistake.