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IDemo

(16,926 posts)
Fri Nov 13, 2015, 11:50 AM Nov 2015

Congress claims space resource rights for Americans to exploit 'new frontier'

Source: The Guardian

Asteroid platinum and the briny water on Mars may soon be available for plunder, Republicans and Democrats have agreed, advancing a bill that would grant “space resource rights” and could challenge an international treaty on outer space.

The US Senate passed the Space Act of 2015 this week, sending its revisions of the bill back to the House for an expected approval, after which it would land on the president’s desk. The bill has a slew of provisions to encourage commercial companies that want to explore space and exploit its resources, granting “asteroid resource” and “space resource” rights to US citizens who managed to acquire the resource themselves.

The lawmakers defined “space resource” as “an abiotic resource in situ in outer space” that would include water and minerals but not life.

Space law is a new frontier for the lawmakers and lawyers planted on Earth, and although the commercial spaceflight sector has grown enormously in the past decade – including Elon Musk’s SpaceX and Richard Branson’s Virgin Galactic – the prospects of space mining have remained unclear.

Read more: http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/nov/13/congress-claims-space-resource-rights-for-americans-to-exploit-new-frontier

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Congress claims space resource rights for Americans to exploit 'new frontier' (Original Post) IDemo Nov 2015 OP
If we have enough "resources" to exploit other worlds... Galileo126 Nov 2015 #1
Yeah, soon human beings will have the inter-planetary reputation of the Klingons. Elmer S. E. Dump Nov 2015 #15
Why did God put our oil under their sand? Newsjock Nov 2015 #2
Let's leave minor deities out of it. longship Nov 2015 #5
Hey--------------------before ......................you.................... turbinetree Nov 2015 #3
The Earth will do as Europe did in the 1600 - 1700s - ship problems out csziggy Nov 2015 #14
The cost of putting a kilogram into orbit. longship Nov 2015 #4
These laws are exactly the type of things necessary to incentivize the private sector branford Nov 2015 #6
Well, the least gravity well is the moon. longship Nov 2015 #8
The moon's just fine by me. branford Nov 2015 #9
An asteroid has virtually no gravity well to speak of. LongTomH Nov 2015 #17
"Once you've achieved low-Earth orbit" longship Nov 2015 #18
A moon base would make mining the asteroids much easier - no gravity well to climb out of Baclava Nov 2015 #11
It is really all about the rocket equation, and the gravity well. longship Nov 2015 #12
The cost isn't due to the rocket equation bananas Nov 2015 #19
It is ALL about the rocket equation and Earth's gravity well. longship Nov 2015 #20
sad to say DonCoquixote Nov 2015 #7
If they move an asteroid a bit into a more convenient orbit, have they 'recovered' it all? muriel_volestrangler Nov 2015 #10
the Pubs have actually had a strong faction supporting space--at least for conquest and weaponry MisterP Nov 2015 #13
Resources exist to be consumed NobodyHere Nov 2015 #16

Galileo126

(2,016 posts)
1. If we have enough "resources" to exploit other worlds...
Fri Nov 13, 2015, 12:00 PM
Nov 2015

Then we have the resources to "fix" our own freaking planet.

Get over it, money-hungry jerks.

turbinetree

(24,703 posts)
3. Hey--------------------before ......................you....................
Fri Nov 13, 2015, 12:14 PM
Nov 2015

claim space domain, why don't you get this house or planet in order first
We are seeing first hand how this planet is dying because of the plunder and the track record caused by the human species and its record speaks for its self



Honk----------------for a political revolution Bernie 2016


csziggy

(34,136 posts)
14. The Earth will do as Europe did in the 1600 - 1700s - ship problems out
Fri Nov 13, 2015, 03:37 PM
Nov 2015

Europe shipped their dissidents and convicts over seas for years instead of fixing the problems in their own countries. Were science fiction writers right and that is how space will be exploited - by shipping Earth's problems to the Moon or to Mars?

longship

(40,416 posts)
4. The cost of putting a kilogram into orbit.
Fri Nov 13, 2015, 12:17 PM
Nov 2015

It is about $20,000, and that is low-Earth orbit. If one wants to send that same kilogram to a near-Earth asteroid, we're talking about a whole lotta cash.

Plus, then there's the problem that the US has no vehicle to get us there. Sadly, the Saturn V (the only one with the capability) died with the Apollo program. The Space Shuttle never got beyond low-Earth orbit, and was a stretch to get to the Hubble Space Telescope, which it thankfully did multiple times, the last time with an emergency rescue backup shuttle on the launch pad. Yup! Space is a dangerous place.


 

branford

(4,462 posts)
6. These laws are exactly the type of things necessary to incentivize the private sector
Fri Nov 13, 2015, 12:23 PM
Nov 2015

to invest more in space research, including any spin-off technologies.

Space, whether it be Earth orbit, Mars or anywhere else, is big enough for everyone to seek resources.

Quite frankly, I'd rather people mined Mars or the Belt, than suffer the environmental problems with mining on Earth for resources we absolutely require. Even "green" technologies need rare and expensive elements.

longship

(40,416 posts)
8. Well, the least gravity well is the moon.
Fri Nov 13, 2015, 12:35 PM
Nov 2015

Unfortunately, landing on Mars is really, really difficult. Very little atmospheric resistance, and a bit too massive. See Mars Science Laboratory (Curiosity Rover) landing for details.

The moon is much, much easier. Just ask Buzz Aldrin.

It is all about the depth of the gravity well and the Tsiolkovsky rocket equation.

 

branford

(4,462 posts)
9. The moon's just fine by me.
Fri Nov 13, 2015, 12:40 PM
Nov 2015

I simply believe anything that reasonably incentivizes research into space technologies is a good thing.

We will continue to exploit resources for the indefinite future. I would prefer it be done off-Earth for a multitude of reasons, from environmental to aesthetic. The spin-off technologies are just a bonus.

LongTomH

(8,636 posts)
17. An asteroid has virtually no gravity well to speak of.
Fri Nov 13, 2015, 06:49 PM
Nov 2015

There have been serious studies of asteroid mining since the 1970s. K. Eric Drexler did one using his concepts for an advanced lightsail (what most people call a 'solar sail').

Once you've achieved low-Earth orbit, there are a number of very efficient, low-thrust propulsion systems you can use: electric propulsion (ion and plasma engines), lightsails, O'Neill mass-driver reaction engines (MDRE), etc.

Getting stuff down from orbit is considerably easier; gravity and air resistance work for you on the way down. You just need a heat shield and. possibly a parachute if you're returning delicate manufactured goods. Bulk materials, platinum group metals, iron, nickel , cobalt, etc can just impact in the ocean or a desert area.

longship

(40,416 posts)
18. "Once you've achieved low-Earth orbit"
Fri Nov 13, 2015, 07:48 PM
Nov 2015

That is the issue. Getting out of the Earth's gravity well. Once one is in low-Earth orbit most of the job is done. TLI* can be done with very little delta-V**. It is Earth launches that are the problem, not landings. That is why it takes a 36 story tall rocket, the Saturn V, to get to the moon. (Also known as the Up Goer Five).

Remember, the controlling science here is that mean, old rocket equation.

Physics 101

*Trans-Lunar injection.
**change in velocity

 

Baclava

(12,047 posts)
11. A moon base would make mining the asteroids much easier - no gravity well to climb out of
Fri Nov 13, 2015, 01:37 PM
Nov 2015

Nothing need ever 'come back to earth' - the moon colony could use the metals to build their own space fleet.

and we shouldn't be looking to live ON the moon, but IN the moon


Moon Base Possible through Lava Tubes

Scientists and theorists had come up with many ideas to open up a functional base on the moon but the issue of radiation outweighs the possibilities. Scientists have recently discovered lava tubes where a base could be safely constructed. In volcanic tubes are now considered to be safe and ideal sites for settling in.

Scientists are accessing the situation and are trying to figure out that how stable these tubes are, they are studying the features and they have discovered that the tubes which are at least 1 km in size could be ideal for human settlement. This new development has raised a lot of hope in the scientific community who have goals to overcome the challenges posed by the lunar environment.

The moon has a rougher environment that the earth. The moon has no atmosphere, this means that there is no protection from the radiation from the sun, there is no magnetic field and that is the reason why the moon has a higher rate of meteor impacts. The surface of the moon is not habitable because of meteor showers and extreme temperatures, during the course of a lunar day, the temperatures could vary by several 100 degrees.

The lava tubes is ideal place because this area is shielded from these dangers, it is expected that the lunar tunnels are much larger than the tunnel discovered on earth, this is because of the lower gravity factor, cave entrances called skylights are known to be the entrance to these tubes



http://www.mytechbits.com/moon-base-possible-through-lava-tubes/981287/

-----------------------



-----------------------

oh yeah - and there's water there


NASA Is Studying How to Mine the Moon for Water


There's a lot of water on the moon, and NASA wants to learn how to mine it.

Space agency scientists are developing two separate mission concepts to assess, and learn how to exploit, stores of water ice on the moon and other lunar resources. The projects — called Lunar Flashlight and the ResourceProspector Mission — are notionally targeted to blast off in 2017 and 2018, respectively, and aim to help humanity extend its footprint out into the solar system.

"If you're going to have humans on the moon and you need water for drinking, breathing, rocket fuel, anything you want, it's much, much cheaper to live off the land than it is to bring everything with you," said Lunar Flashlight principal investigator Barbara Cohen, of NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Alabama.

http://www.space.com/27388-nasa-moon-mining-missions-water.html

longship

(40,416 posts)
12. It is really all about the rocket equation, and the gravity well.
Fri Nov 13, 2015, 01:46 PM
Nov 2015

They work together; they are two sides of the same coin. They are the reason why it costs so much to transport water to the ISS and why they drink their own pee.

(No worries, from what I understand, the pee water is just fine. Apparently it is the foul smell of the place that one has to get used to.)


bananas

(27,509 posts)
19. The cost isn't due to the rocket equation
Fri Nov 13, 2015, 08:09 PM
Nov 2015

As Musk points out:

http://www.space.com/21386-spacex-reusable-rockets-cost.html

Musk reiterated the origin of the SpaceX production model, saying fuel is only 0.3 percent of the total cost of a rocket, with construction materials accounting for no more than 2 percent of the total cost, which for the Falcon 9 is about $60 million.

<snip>

Musk said that a rocket's first stage accounts for three-quarters of its total price tag, so a vehicle with a reusable first stage can be produced at far less cost — assuming the hardware is fully and rapidly reusable.


You could make a very cheap rocket, what's expensive is a rocket that can reliably make it to orbit without blowing up or crashing.

Nuclear energy has a similar problem - you could build a very cheap nuclear power plant, but building one that can operate reliably for 30 years without blowing up or melting down is expensive.



longship

(40,416 posts)
20. It is ALL about the rocket equation and Earth's gravity well.
Fri Nov 13, 2015, 08:19 PM
Nov 2015

That is why it takes a fucking 36 story tall Saturn V rocket to get three dudes to the moon, almost all of it fuel (and oxidizer).

The Earth's gravity well is a rather huge issue. The moon's is easy in comparison. Unfortunately, Mars is a bitch, too little atmosphere and too much mass.

Physics 101, my friend.


DonCoquixote

(13,616 posts)
7. sad to say
Fri Nov 13, 2015, 12:31 PM
Nov 2015

The Chinese are already planning permanent moon bases. The only difference between the Americas and space is that there are likely no natives to kill, everything else is set. Remember, the English scoffed at colonization until the Spanish came back with lots of Aztec Gold, enough to fuel the Armada that would have wrecked England if she did not have to call upon her pirates for aid.

As far as "fixing this planet" that will not happen, save for technology to restore the ozone layer. If you are reading this screen, you are using tech made in space, so anyone who thinks that we can dump science and sing kum by ya around a campfire and go back to mother nature is a fool. Human explore, humans develop, and it is likely we will need space explorations, and yes colonization, to survive.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,321 posts)
10. If they move an asteroid a bit into a more convenient orbit, have they 'recovered' it all?
Fri Nov 13, 2015, 12:49 PM
Nov 2015
The Space Act does implement some limits to what space miners can claim: While they can own anything they extract from an asteroid, for example, mining companies can’t own the asteroid itself. The Senate also clarified that miners can only claim “abiotic” materials they find, meaning they will have to stick to minerals and elements—owning any form of alien life is off the table, Fecht reports.

Read more: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/get-your-pickaxe-and-spacecraft-ready-space-mining-might-be-legal-very-soon-180957266/#ePDlk3x4T3GbwpRg.99


A United States citizen engaged in commercial recovery of an asteroid resource or a space resource under this chapter shall be entitled to any asteroid resource or space resource obtained, including to possess, own, transport, use, and sell the asteroid resource or space resource obtained in accordance with applicable law, including the international obligations of the United States.

http://www.popsci.com/congress-votes-to-legalize-asteroid-mining

Some ideas for exploitation are about slowly moving an asteroid to an orbit where it can be mined more conveniently. Since they moved the whole thing, would they have 'exclusive' rights to it? Or can someone else start mining a different face of it? If they do get exclusive rights, how much would they have to change the orbit to get the rights?

MisterP

(23,730 posts)
13. the Pubs have actually had a strong faction supporting space--at least for conquest and weaponry
Fri Nov 13, 2015, 03:00 PM
Nov 2015
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens'_Advisory_Council_on_National_Space_Policy
some bits of science they absolutely like (though I'm sure the fundies reject gravitation)
 

NobodyHere

(2,810 posts)
16. Resources exist to be consumed
Fri Nov 13, 2015, 05:31 PM
Nov 2015

"Resources exist to be consumed. And consumed they will be, if not by this generation then by some future. By what right does this forgotten future seek to deny us our birthright? None I say! Let us take what is ours, chew and eat our fill."

-CEO Nwabudike Morgan "The Ethics of Greed"

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