EU Commission: welfare brake for Britain could apply immediately

[Recursion]

Source: Reuters

The European Commission has prepared a proposal on a "welfare brake" that Britain could apply immediately to deny benefit payments to working migrants, but it has not been shared with other European governments yet, the Commission said on Monday.

Britain wants EU agreement on measures to curb migration -- the most difficult of four areas Prime Minister David Cameron wants to renegotiate before holding a referendum on EU membership by the end of 2017.

Talks between Cameron and the chairman of EU leaders Donald Tusk brought no breakthrough on Sunday and are scheduled to continue through Monday.

Asked if the Commission has prepared a proposal that would give Britain the right to apply the welfare brake now, but did not share the proposal with other EU governments, Commission spokesman Margaritis Schinas told a news briefing: "Yes, right."

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/britain-eu-idUSL8N15G229

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

1. I don't see how the other nations are going to approve this

Heard someone from Poland yesterday on BBC radio saying that it would be wrong for Brits to discriminate against Polish migrants by treating them differently from British citizens.
And I can't imagine that the poorer Eastern European countries are going to allow this, either.

The EU "as is" needs a redo, imo.

[Recursion]

2. At this point the EU is a Fox reality show (nt)

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

3. But not funny - the 1%ers control everything now.

[branford]

5. The Brits have some legal justification for their demands under EU law.

The legal issues are not as clear as some believe.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-25134521

Moreover, the alternative to comprise with Britain is their leaving the EU altogether. For countries like Poland who have many citizens that rely on the benefits and opportunities of residence in Britain, compromise is better than nothing. Moreover, some richer destination countries like Germany, France, Denmark and others may support a comprise if they believe it would benefit them if they too wanted to institute such polices in the future.

[pampango]

4. Cut welfare, eliminate labor rights - Cameron knows what he wants to stay in the EU.

Conservatives are so predictable. First you cut welfare benefits for THEM (immigrants, drug users, 'welfare queens') then you move on to phase 2. Cameron can read Reagan's history as well as anyone.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

6. Half of Poland could move into the UK

Not to mention the populations of other poorer EU countries. All it takes it one economic downturn in another country for the UK to see a huge increase in immigrants.

Is it fair for the citizens of the one country to pay for child benefits to kids who live in another country? Because that is what is happening.

At some point, common sense needs to prevail.

I don't see why so many on the left don't see this as just another way to kill all benefit schemes. Benefits get reduced because the system is overloaded, but they never go back up!

The rules are so completely stupid, that the UK has become responsible to pay for healthcare for immigrants back in their native country because they happened to work in the UK for a short period of time. That's nuts. The NHS is already underfunded.

The EU needs a do over if it's going to work in the long term.

[pampango]

7. Germany's economy is much stronger than the UK's. And Germany is much closer to Poland.

UK Conservatives are like right wingers everywhere. They want to restrict welfare, immigration and labor rights. There is a reason the British unions do not want the UK to drop out of the EU

The foreign-born population was higher in Germany (and much higher in Sweden) than in the UK even before the recent refugee influx. It's UKIP and the Conservatives in the UK that fixate on immigrants. Liberals in the UK, Germany and Sweden do not.

https://data.oecd.org/migration/foreign-born-population.htm#indicator-chart

[branford]

8. If Germany is closer and its economy is larger,

and the UK so disgustingly conservative and less diverse, why do Poles (and so many other immigrants and migrants, See, Calais) want so desperately to reach British shores?

It's similar to how so many complain about the myriad evils of the USA, yet we're still the primary destination of immigrants worldwide.

[pampango]

11. The UK's government is Conservative (not the country) and it has fewer foreign-born residents

than Germany or Sweden. That does not mean it is less diverse since it's native-born population is racially and ethnically diverse.

... why do Poles (and so many other immigrants and migrants, See, Calais) want so desperately to reach British shores?

Perhaps because they think the UK is more diverse and accepting (IOW, not "conservative&quot than many other European countries; perhaps because they have family or friends already there (given the UK's diversity others may have preceded them).

I suppose others (mostly UKIP and the Tories' right wing but perhaps not exclusively so) would speculate that they come from races, cultures or countries that are 'inferior' which means they are inherently lazy or indolent and are just pursuing a soft life on welfare.

Do you have a theory?

[branford]

12. First, by European standards, the UK is indeed quite "conservative."

It's one of the reasons why Brexit is a distinct possibility.

Nevertheless, the benefits provided by the UK are excellent, the social and decidedly capitalistic opportunities of its society are similarly impressive (it is the world's 5th largest economy, recently eclipsing France), as you note, prior liberal immigration policies have resulted in established immigrant communities within Britain (much to chagrin of many voters, and the rejection of Labour's multiculturalism is a primary factor in the Tory's and other conservative groups recent political ascendancy), and most notably, many people already speak English, thus making assimilation much easier.

The most important part of this discussion is that Cameron's demands reflect the will of the majority of Britain's voters, and many feel he's actually not demanding anywhere near enough from the EU. As I indicated in my post #5 above, Cameron's position are also not nearly as unsound or inconsistent with EU law as many believe.

[pampango]

14. The polls do seem to favor Cameron at the moment. Labour and the unions seem ready to fight Cameron

on this. There is a long way to go before the referendum. A lot can change.

[branford]

16. The polls do indeed favor Cameron,

and the migrant crisis in not helping those who want to remain in the EU. In fact, the EU has requested the UK delay their referendum to give it an opportunity to resolve the migrant issues knowing full well the trajectory of popular sentiment in Britain.

I would additionally note than many unions and their members are actually quite opposed to liberal immigration laws and policies, both with respect to foreign migrants as well as their eastern European brethren, mimicking similar to positions in the USA believing it threatens jobs and lowers wages. Again, this is one of the reasons why Labour had such an abysmal showing in the recent election.

Much can indeed change before the referendum, but unless the EU gets its act together AND offers Britain some notable concession, those who want to remain in the EU might need to pull-off a miracle.

[pampango]

20. I'm sure that "many unions and their members" want the UK to leave the EU.

There are "many unions and their members" who support non-Democratic candidates and policies in the US, as well. Fortunately most are not like that.

The Labour Party, the TUC and liberals are about all that is left supporting the UK's membership in the EU since the right, particularly UKIP and the far-right, all want the UK to leave.

The polls do indeed favor Cameron, and the migrant crisis in not helping those who want to remain in the EU.

Much can indeed change before the referendum, but unless the EU gets its act together AND offers Britain some notable concession, those who want to remain in the EU might need to pull-off a miracle.

I am always sad when liberal ideas are not popular in the polls, particularly when we lose elections or referendums. It is always a judgment call whether trailing in the polls with respect to a particular policy means we should move closer to what is more popular and pushed by conservatives. Or should we maintain our policy position and try to explain its value more effectively and risk suffering a defeat.

[branford]

22. A lot of the time the issue is not general policy position, but the details and effectiveness

concerning the implementation of such policies.

Most liberals, myself included, generally support multiculturalism, oppose racial and ethnic discrimination, and have a sense of humanitarianism. However, that does not mean I or many others support open immigration in response to the migrant crisis. Important decisions needs to be made with both heart and brain, and anyone could have foreseen the myriad problems currently facing the formerly generous destination countries.

[pampango]

23. I agree with all of that.

Important decisions needs to be made with both heart and brain, and anyone could have foreseen the myriad problems currently facing the formerly generous destination countries.

I would only add that we should use our heart and brain and not be dominated by fear as the right often is.

The real problem is both for the "the formerly generous destination countries" and for Greece and Italy which have to handle hundreds of thousands of refugees and migrants when they first land. They have problems too and need help dealing with them. If "the formerly generous destination countries" decide to do little or nothing to accept refugee, Greece and Italy are going to be in a world of hurt.

[branford]

24. Germany waived the requirements of the Dublin agreement

and transit countries like Greece and Italy who didn't want any of the refugees were more than happy to ignore its requirements.

Such policies have obviously not worked out well for anyone, to say the least, and it may be too late for any quick fix.

Hundreds of thousands of migrants are already in the EU, the stream continues daily, and it will only get worse come Spring. The people are also angry, impatient and disillusioned with their leaders and the EU, want this crisis to end yesterday, and certainly are not willing to import the problems of Germany, Sweden, Greece, etc. in order to help them when their dissenting, and quite prescient, voices were ignored.

I fear that much of the EU, already not a fan of Greece after their recent financial mess, may out of desperation decide to simply cut the country off and render it little more than one big refugee camp. Sadly, even such a drastic act would not solve the migrant crisis, but would destroy what little solidarity remains among EU members.

[pampango]

25. I hope you are wrong but expect you are right.

I suspect the right would love to just kick Greece and Italy out of the EU; put up walls to keep the refugee problem as 'somebody else's problem (Greece and Italy) and go about their business of dealing with the refugee already in the rest of Europe.

Sadly, even such a drastic act would not solve the migrant crisis, but would destroy what little solidarity remains among EU members.

Agreed. And a European continent of uncooperative, nationalistic countries is not something that history smiles upon.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

9. The EU - like the TPP - exists for the 1%ers

Just give it a few more years - the power grabs always benefit the 1%ers.

Just look at at the banksters and the Greeks....

[pampango]

10. They have their 1%ers - they are everywhere - but the EU's income distribution is the best

in the world, there are strong unions and middle classes. The fight between the 1% and the rest of us never ends in Europe, the US or anywhere else.

Since it is conservatives that want to break up the EU, I suspect the 1% anticipates doing better without the EU around. They would not be pushing for something they thought it would be bad for profits and their political power.

[branford]

13. The EU as an institution is increasingly unpopular among the left,

both in Britain and much of the rest of the EU, largely because of actual and perceived democratic deficits that even the EU leadership admits exist. Moreover, many among the left believe the EU is just too conservative, as was amply demonstrated by complaints about how the EU handled the recent Greek financial meltdown that immediately preceded the current migrant crisis.

[pampango]

15. The left thinks the EU is too conservative. The right thinks it is too liberal.

Sounds like what Americans think of their government. I suppose Brits are the same along with most other people on the world.

The big difference, of course, is that you can't get rid of a national government (absent revolution) you can only change it. The far-right has been trying to destroy the EU for years. Perhaps the left will now join them (at least the right and left can agree on something) and the EU will cease to exist.

[branford]

17. I don't believe (nor do I hope) the EU will cease to exist.

However, it will need to change and adapt.

The days of EU leaders calling for "more Europe" in response to every crisis are now clearly impractical and undemocratic. It might be best for the EU to mostly revert to the days of the EEC where it was little more than a trading community. It could them try to regain a democratic mandate to pursue greater integration.

[pampango]

18. I think conservatives would love for the EU go become just a 'free trade zone'

without rules on labor, the environment and other things.

It might be best for the EU to mostly revert to the days of the EEC where it was little more than a trading community.

[branford]

19. The alternative to an EEC like arrangement may be no EU at all.

It's true that conservatives would like it, but given the EU's low popularity and apparent incompetence, many others would simply welcome the increased democracy of returned national sovereignty.

[pampango]

21. The return of "national sovereignty" is what the right has been after all along.

Giving them a 'free trade zone' to go with it would be icing on their cake.

In its day, the EEC was a step on the way to closer integration rather than an end in itself. The right would, I think, be happy to go back to an EEC-like 'free trade zone' without the EU's labor and environmental rules as a wonderful end result.