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jpak

(41,758 posts)
Fri Apr 8, 2016, 05:10 PM Apr 2016

New Jersey man faces jail for refusing to take down Trump flag

Source: Reuters

Republican presidential hopeful Donald Trump appears to have a passionate supporter in Joseph Hornick, a New Jersey man who faces a $2,000 fine or 90 days in jail for flying a flag emblazoned with the billionaire candidate's name over his home.

Local officials said the flag violates an ordinance prohibiting the display of political signs more than 30 days ahead of an election and issued him a summons. New Jersey's primary is on June 7.

For weeks, Hornick has displayed the blue flag with Trump's "Make America Great Again!" campaign slogan on a pole outside his two-story West Long Branch house, at a busy intersection near Monmouth University, in a show of his support for Trump. Trump has been campaigning this week in neighboring New York in an effort to snag the Republican presidential nomination.

Despite being issued a summons on March 25 for the violation, Hornick apparently intends to keep it up.

<more>

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-new-jersey-flag-idUSKCN0X528N



12 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Gore1FL

(21,134 posts)
1. I suspect he'll win if he gets a day in court.
Fri Apr 8, 2016, 05:25 PM
Apr 2016

National flags are inherently political in nature. I am guessing those are allowed.

1monster

(11,012 posts)
2. While I deplore his choice of candidates, I think there might be a First
Fri Apr 8, 2016, 05:27 PM
Apr 2016

Amendment issue here... The Trump flag is a form of political free speech.

DebbieCDC

(2,543 posts)
3. His free speech is not at issue here - he's violating a local ordinance
Fri Apr 8, 2016, 05:39 PM
Apr 2016

it's a violation of local law on when campaign banners, signs, etc. can be displayed

denbot

(9,901 posts)
4. Displaying signs, banners, giving out pamphlets, are all forms of speech.
Fri Apr 8, 2016, 06:25 PM
Apr 2016

And IMHO, not merely protected, but even for dumbassed Trump supporters, scared.

DebbieCDC

(2,543 posts)
6. Again -- It's not the speech that's being regulated
Fri Apr 8, 2016, 07:25 PM
Apr 2016

It's the timeframe when election materials can be displayed. Millions of municipalities across the US have these laws - when signs can go up and when they must come down during an election cycle.

 

branford

(4,462 posts)
7. The ordinance is definitely regulating speech.
Fri Apr 8, 2016, 07:56 PM
Apr 2016

It only prohibits political signs, is thus a content, not time, manner and place, restriction, and will be struck down. In addition to the ticket being dismissed, I imagine the town might have to pay Mr. Horick a civil settlement for his troubles.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/04/08/new-jersey-man-ticketed-for-flying-donald-trump-flag/

 

Reter

(2,188 posts)
12. If it's his property, it's his speech
Fri Apr 8, 2016, 11:52 PM
Apr 2016

Let him fly the Nazi flag for all I care, it's not the government's business what he does on his house. He ain't renting it.

Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
9. Yes, but the law seems unconstitutional. This is a speech violation. Reed v Gilbert, 2015 dec. 9-0
Fri Apr 8, 2016, 10:06 PM
Apr 2016

The fact that the law prohibits ALL political messages doesn't make it conform to the First Amendment.

Here's a link to the 2015 case:
http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/14pdf/13-502_9olb.pdf

Now on the surface this seem to be different, because that related to church signs, but this case is a very solid precedent that states that this law would be subject to strict scrutiny:

(a) Because content-based laws target speech based on its communicative content, they are presumptively unconstitutional and may be justified only if the government proves that they are narrowly tailored to serve compelling state interests. E.g., R. A. V. v. St. Paul, 505 U. S. 377, 395. Speech regulation is content based if a law applies to particular speech because of the topic discussed or the idea or message expressed. E.g., Sorrell v. IMS Health, Inc., 564 U. S. ___, ___–___. And courts are required to consider whether a regulation of speech “on its face” draws distinctions based on the message a speaker conveys. Id., at ___. Whether laws define regulated speech by particular subject matter or by its function or purpose, they are subject to strict scrutiny. The same is true for laws that, though facially content neutral, cannot be “ ‘justified without reference to the content of the regulated speech,’ ” or were adopted by the government “because of disagreement with the message” conveyed. Ward v. Rock Against Racism, 491 U. S. 781, 791. Pp. 6–7.
(b) The Sign Code is content based on its face. It defines the categories of temporary, political, and ideological signs on the basis of
their messages and then subjects each category to different restrictions. The restrictions applied thus depend entirely on the sign’s
communicative content. Because the Code, on its face, is a contentbased regulation of speech, there is no need to consider the government’s justifications or purposes for enacting the Code to determine whether it is subject to strict scrutiny. Pp. 7.
...

A sign ordinance narrowly tailored to the challenges of protecting the safety of pedestrians, drivers, and passengers—such as warning signs marking hazards on private property, signs directing traffic, or street numbers associated with private houses—well might survive strict scrutiny. The signs at issue in this case, including political and ideological signs and signs for events, are far removed
from those purposes. As discussed above, they are facially content based and are neither justified by traditional safety concerns nor narrowly tailored.


What is the compelling state interest here, and how is it narrowly tailored?

The town is going to get whacked if it tries to enforce this.

The town could regulate signage/flags if they obstructed the views of drivers/pedestrians, and thus were a safety hazard. The sign could restrict giant flagpoles if they were a safety hazard. The town may surely limit placing signs of a certain size close to public thoroughfares.

The town just cannot say "we don't wanna see political signs". That does not survive a strict scrutiny test, and all nine justices struck the ordinance in Reed v Gilbert.

It's worth reading the entire case, because Kagan, joined by Ginsburg and Breyer, points out some of the problems inherent in the majority's analysis. But nonetheless, Kagan called the town's justification "laughable" in that case.

Supressing political speech will cause the hackles of justices to go up, and reasonably so.

The town can't enforce this thing, and it shouldn't try to do so.

yuiyoshida

(41,833 posts)
5. Maybe Trump will bail him out... or maybe its
Fri Apr 8, 2016, 06:35 PM
Apr 2016

Just true what they say, that Republicans are rich, and above the law... maybe, maybe not so much.

Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
8. I think the ordinance runs afoul of the First Amendment.
Fri Apr 8, 2016, 09:41 PM
Apr 2016

Political speech has the highest priority. And it should - grassroots type speech should not be suppressed - it tends to offset the influence of money and power in politics.

Look at Sanders' campaign this year.

It's not that there can be no restrictions. You could place size restrictions on close-to-the-curb, if it blocked driver visibility, etc. But I don't think a local government, or a state government, or the federal government can constitutionally just prohibit the placing of political messages. Any restrictions have to be reasonable with an obvious public purpose, and "we don't like it" is not an allowable reason.

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