Mikhail Gorbachev Says NATO Is Escalating Cold War With Russia 'Into A Hot One'

[Purveyor]

Source: Independent UK

Former Soviet Premier Mikhail Gorbachev has accused Nato of preparing for "offensive operations" against Russia.

As the Western alliance held a summit in Warsaw, Poland, Mr Gorbachev criticised Nato’s decision to deploy 4,000 more international troops in Eastern Europe.

Tensions have been mounting between Russia and Nato member states, in particular the US, as diplomatic spats and military excercises have increased in frequency.

Mr Gorbachev, the eighth and last leader of the Soviet Union, said: “Nato has begun preparations for escalating from the Cold War into a hot one.

Read more: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/nato-chief-russia-soviet-mikhail-gorbachev-ukraine-eastern-europe-tensions-jens-stoltenberg-unified-a7128521.html

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NATO ‘Speaks Of Defense, Prepares Offensive’, Says Gorbachev

Despite NATO assurances that it seeks deterrence and dialogue with Russia, the alliance seems to be preparing to escalate conflict, says Mikhail Gorbachev, the man praised for ending the Cold War after the alliance convened at a summit in Warsaw.

“The rhetoric in Warsaw screams of an intention to practically declare war on Russia. They only talk about defense, but in fact they are preparing an offensive,” the former Soviet leader told Interfax.

MORE...

https://www.rt.com/news/350434-nato-war-russia-warsaw/

[cstanleytech]

1. Well Mr. Gorbachev if you honestly want this to cool down then Putin needs to pull back

the Russian troops in the Ukraine back to the bases on the Crimean Peninsula that Russia has a lease with the rightful government of the Ukraine to use, its really that simple.
If that doesnt happen though the varies NATO countries that are your neighbors arent going to trust you not to invade them if you suddenly decide they have something you want like you did in the Ukraine and they therefore will build up their military incase you do decide to invade them.

[transatlantica]

3. Maybe Putin would pull back the troops

if the recent Ukrainian government (apart from stopping the bombardment of civilians in the Donetsk/Lugansk region) would agree to accept the illegality of the ousting of Yanukovich in February 2014 and admit that it was driven by Neonazi forces, partly on the payroll of the US.

Maybe then.

[cstanleytech]

9. His outting though is an internal issue and it does not give carte blanche to

Russia to invade a neighboring country over an internal issue.

[Wilms]

4. Do a little more reading.

Check out Victoria Nuland, and her avowed neo-con husband, Robert Kagan.

[Night Watchman]

2. Gorbachev was the Soviet President, not Premier

But hey, what else do you expect from The Independent?

[Adrahil]

5. Hey Gorby....

Nice to hear form you. How about you tell that ex-KGB operative to stop invading his neigbors. That might go a long way to calming things down.

Oh, and Russia is a second tier nation at best, discounting its nukes. Short of a nuclear exhcange, it does not have the economic base for any kind of major conflict with the west.

[uawchild]

6. "Russia is a second tier nation at best"

EXACTLY! Thank you!

And its spends a lot less on its military too than the US and NATO:


So... what's with all the Cold War II hysteria that Russia is planning to invade NATO? It's just insane warmongering on our part.

"discounting its nukes." That's the thing though, we CANNOT discount Russia's nukes. The Cold War II hysteria could very well ratchet up to a shooting war and then a nuclear war. Its all insane.

[Adrahil]

8. Putin is really no idiot....

I like to call him one, but he's not. He tries to evoke that old Soviet image of the huge Red Army that is no longer there, really. And he can't afford to rebuild it. But he does hope that a small, modernized (relatively) force with an arsenal of nukes to back it up can chip away the best bits of the former Spviet states. He knows he can't face NATO in a conventional conflict, but he hopes he raise the bar for military action enough to make little military adventures every now and again. When I start to hear Russians remind us of the spectre of nuclear war, imget concerned that he is about to make one of the forays again. We can expect one every few years I think. Just as tensions decrease from the last one, time to pick a new target. I still think he has eyes on Mariupol.

[uawchild]

11. When I start to hear Russians remind us of the spectre of nuclear war

I get concerned aout nuclear war. Russia won't be able to stomach losing a conventional war on Russian territory, they would definitely go nuclear. Sure tactical nukes first, but all Pentagon Military war games that modeled tactical nuclear exchanges always ended up with both side going all out with strategic nuclear weapons too. It always ended in a WWIII nuclear wasteland.

Thanks for some interesting views.

[Adrahil]

15. Of course, there is always a risk...

Of escalation, which is precisely what Putin thinks will allow him to press the boundaries. He hopes fear of escalation will allow him to press further than he could otherwise. But that is a very dangerous game.

[newthinking]

31. It's more serious than that. The "missile shield" on their border ups the anti.

The Russians are concerned that it could be transformed and long range capabilities put into place. Putin has said that Russian intelligence has said that capability will be there within 4 years.

With multiple generals and some congressman openly talking about tactically Nuking Russia that puts Russia into a very difficult position. The next few years will be very tense. Russians don't play "chicken" well. They take this very seriously. With first strike capability now being US doctrine if Russia is backed into a corner they *will* strike if they feel it is the only option.

There is another component as well. China plays things very quiet but because they are also feeling like the US is not beyond trying to destabilize their country as well: Russia and China, traditionally competitors, are becoming allies. This is all a terribly dangerous game.

[NWCorona]

14. Putin acknowledged recently that America is the sole superpower

I was kinda shocked but having been to the Soviet Union and Russia a few times I will have to agree.

[Adrahil]

16. The economy of Russia is smaller

Than the economy of Italy. Let that sink in.

[NWCorona]

18. Right! That's just nuts.

[uawchild]

27. WRONG so wrong... but will you admit you are wrong? We will see...

Try using the more accurate GDP PPP metric than the nominal GDP, which economists all know is basically misleading. GDP Purchasing Power Parity metrics are "more useful when thinking about the relative size/wealth of economies."

Look at THAT, Russia is right up there with Germany and Japan! Ok, now be a mensch and admit you were wrong on this issue, Italy's economy is not bigger than Russia's. The numbers speak for themselves.


Data from the International Monetary Fund (2016)[3]
Rank Country GDP (Millions of Int$)
World 113,523,500
1 China 20,853,331
European Union[n 1] 19,205,364
2 United States 18,558,129
3 India 8,642,758
4 Japan 4,901,102
5 Germany 3,934,664
6 Russia 3,684,643
7 Brazil 3,101,247
8 Indonesia 3,010,746
9 United Kingdom 2,756,748
10 France 2,703,378
11 Mexico 2,227,176
12 Italy 2,170,909
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)

Here is some info for you that explains why GDP PPP is better than using nominal GDP.

"Purchasing Power Parity (PPP) is a way of adjusting exchange rates to account for relative price levels (local demand for local goods) as well as market exchange rates (foreign demand for local currency). If, for example, the Serbian Dinar and U.S. Dollar had a PPP exchange rate of 1, it would imply that one dollar buys the same amount of "stuff" in the US as one dinar buys in Serbia.

[One well-known PPP heuristic is the "Big Mac Index". Since the McDonald's (fast food chain) "Big Mac" hamburger sandwich is available in almost every country in the world, comparing the price of a Big Mac in local currencies is a pretty good approximation of a PPP exchange rate. For example, if a Big Mac costs $4 in America and ¥400 yen in Japan, the implied PPP exchange rate would be 100 Yen to the Dollar, which is different from the actual exchange rate]

Back to the question. Nominal GDP is measured in local currency. We can take that nominal value and convert it into dollars at the posted exchange rate, and come up with a value of $38.71 B (apparently). Or, we can use the PPP exchange rate, which accounts for the lower price level in Serbia, and come up with a PPP-adjusted GDP of $80.1B.

How do we interpret those numbers?

The interpretation of that second value is that the serbian economy produces an equivalent amount of "stuff" to $80.1B worth of production in the United States (20B big macs, for example).

On the other hand, the first value implies that if the Serbian economy converted their entire GDP into dollars at the market exchange rate and then came to the United States, they would only be able to by $38.71B worth of goods (roughly 10B big macs, for example).

So, there's a huge difference. PPP measures real production, and is more useful when thinking about the relative size/wealth of economies. The nominal value simply reflects market exchange rates."
https://www.quora.com/What-does-it-mean-if-a-countrys-nominal-GDP-is-significantly-lower-than-its-PPP-adjusted-GDP

[Rex]

28. He can say that, he is the dictator with the most military toys.

China at least is ruled by an elite class of *ahem* communists. Putin is the dictator with the most nukes.

[bemildred]

7. NATO needs an enemy, and Russia is going to be it whether they like it or not. nt

[Yallow]

10. Ever Heard Of Crimea?

Like Putin is sitting on his hands....

[uawchild]

12. How many people died during the annexation of Crimea?

6. That's SIX people, not six hundred or six thousand, SIX people. 3 people died on each side of the dispute.

Know why only SIX people died? Maybe it was because it was a peaceful take over the Crimean people actually wanted in the aftermath of the neo-con coup in Kiev. Their elected president was just deposed, they saw joining Russia as a refuge from chaos. The results of the annexation referendum in Crimea bear this out.

[840high]

17. .+1

[Adrahil]

19. Only if you ignore the fighting...

in the Donbass, which was and is part of the Russian land-grab.

[uawchild]

22. Guy said Crimea

Let's not move the goal posts on that one.

And that Donbas rebel territory is all of, what,
10 or 15 miles wide? Some land grab, but it's not really, just more Russian speaking Ukrainians fed up with the coup in Kiev.

Hey, we support Rebels in Syria, why can't Russia support Rebels 10 miles over there own border? Double standard perhaps? Sure seems that way.

[snooper2]

34. Exactly right! Just like it was reported on RT!

[arcane1]

26. Indeed, the USA has zero credibility to criticize Russia.

We regard Ukraine the way republicans regard Benghazi.

[newthinking]

32. That is precisely what happened.

Our wonderful press also completely ignores the history of Crimea. The "AUTONOMOUS REPUBLIC of Crimea" was the actual name of the region under Ukraine.

[hollowdweller]

13. Putin is an ass but Gorbachev is right.

I think we are not considering the internal politics of Russia at all right now.

NATO has absorbed former Soviet states and we are putting troops right up near the Russian border.

We yell about Ukraine but we've invaded former Russian territory.

I think we have sort of wasted the goodwill we had with them by being too imperialistic.

The fall of the Soviet Union should have been an excuse for LESS US military action not MORE.

Also imagine if Russian was deploying forces and missles in Mexico and Canada.

I think we are diplomatically being very ham fisted

[Adrahil]

20. If Russia didn't have nukes...

No one would care. They are otherwise a non-factor. Russia COULD become an integral part of Europe, but Putin and his supporters can't give up on dreams of the former Soviet empire.

[uawchild]

24. Got a cite on those dreams?

Lol you had it right before when you said Putin would opportunistically make minor plays around the edges of Russia.

That is a far cry from saying he has dreams of restoring the empire. He did say the collapse of the Soviet Union was a geopolitical disaster, is that what you are talking about now?

[newthinking]

29. Nobody can cite it because it was never said.

Our people are so ignorant of anything outside our own borders. The breakup of the Soviet Union was a horrible disaster the way it played out and the people there suffered terribly. Saying it was catastrophic is not saying that one wants the USSR back.

The only reason the propaganda has worked so well is because (many of) our people are incredibly ignorant.

[uawchild]

33. Spot on n/t

[cstanleytech]

21. "We yell about Ukraine but we've invaded former Russian territory" ???

[uawchild]

23. Go figure

There are also uninformed people on the non-Russiphobic side as well as the russophobic side

[newthinking]

30. We have special forces all over the world - Boundries are no barrier

Jeremy Scahill documented well that we have turned to covert methods for most war actions.

[rladdi]

25. Just maybe Mr. Gorbachev needs to go back and live in Russia under Putin.