At least 61 dead, 207 wounded in Kabul demonstration attack

[muriel_volestrangler]

Source: Reuters

At least 61 people were killed and 207 were wounded on Saturday in a suicide attack on a demonstration in Kabul claimed by Islamic State, an official from the Public Health Ministry said.

The deaths are more than double earlier estimates.



Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-afghanistan-protests-idUSKCN1030GB

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Hazara minority targeted by suicide bombs at Kabul protest

A suicide attack has struck a peaceful demonstration by ethnic Hazaras in Kabul, killing more than 60 and injuring scores more, according to local reports.

The protesters were from an ethnic minority grup that makes up around 9% of the population, and the attack is therefore likely to widen sectarian divisions in the country.
...
The demonstrators were marching to voice their discontent with government plans, unveiled in April, to let a major power project circumvent Bamiyan, a predominantly Hazara province in the central highlands.

Following similar large scale protests in May, President Ashraf Ghani established a commission to look into the issue but government attempts to find a compromise had failed. On 19 June, a contract was signed to build another, smaller electricity line through Bamiyan, but that did not satisfy Hazara activists.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/23/hazara-minority-targeted-by-suicide-bombs-at-kabul-protest

[MariaThinks]

3. incredible - the taliban was murdering women in afganistan far before the war on terror and before

911

does anyone ever hold the actual Islamic murderers responsible for their actions?

[7962]

4. No. Its easier to put all the blame on the West.

That way you can sit up on the moral high horse and appear tolerant and superior to the rest of us!

[MariaThinks]

11. and that enables the continued radicalization of the youth who are given mixed messages

even the munich killed was german of Iranian descent.

[ronnie624]

14. That view clearly ignores the most influential element in the violence in the ME.

The root causes simply have to be addressed.

[7962]

15. They've been violent forever.

They plainly state that their goal is to re establish the Caliphate they had hundreds of years ago. Their view is any land once held by muslims must once again be controlled by them.
And its in their religious writings as well.
We dont even need to start in on their national laws that are so primitive.

[Sand Rat Expat]

28. You're wasting your time, 7962.

To some people, America and/or the West is the ultimate boogeyman, the source of all evil in the modern world. This is not a conclusion they arrived at via logic, so logic will not move them from that position.

[MariaThinks]

33. i think that's an excuse to use to justify the radical muslim destruction

[ronnie624]

37. The Costs of Violence: Masters of Mankind

The evidence reviewed by political scientist Timo Kivimäki indicates that the “protection wars [fought by ‘coalitions of the willing’] have become the main source of violence in the world, occasionally contributing over 50% of total conflict fatalities.” Furthermore, in many of these cases, including Syria, as he reviews, there were opportunities for diplomatic settlement that were ignored. That has also been true in other horrific situations, including the Balkans in the early 1990s, the first Gulf War, and of course the Indochina wars, the worst crime since World War II. In the case of Iraq the question does not even arise. There surely are some lessons here.

The general consequences of resorting to the sledgehammer against vulnerable societies comes as little surprise. William Polk’s careful study of insurgencies, Violent Politics, should be essential reading for those who want to understand today’s conflicts, and surely for planners, assuming that they care about human consequences and not merely power and domination. Polk reveals a pattern that has been replicated over and over. The invaders — perhaps professing the most benign motives — are naturally disliked by the population, who disobey them, at first in small ways, eliciting a forceful response, which increases opposition and support for resistance. The cycle of violence escalates until the invaders withdraw — or gain their ends by something that may approach genocide.

[Center]******[/center]
Scott Atran, one of the most insightful researchers on jihadi movements, calculates that “the 9/11 attacks cost between $400,000 and $500,000 to execute, whereas the military and security response by the U.S. and its allies is in the order of 10 million times that figure. On a strictly cost-benefit basis, this violent movement has been wildly successful, beyond even Bin Laden’s original imagination, and is increasingly so. Herein lies the full measure of jujitsu-style asymmetric warfare. After all, who could claim that we are better off than before, or that the overall danger is declining?”

https://chomsky.info/05102016/

[ronnie624]

6. Operation Cyclone,

the most costly covert operation in history, with its CIA sponsored madrasas and terrorism, didn't help matters out any. In fact, it contributed more to the current conditions in Afghanistan than any other single element.

A number of years ago, I posted some declassified CIA memos, featuring discussions about the damage that would knowingly be done to Afghan society, as a result of the intervention there. I sure wish I could find them now.

At some point, Americans are going to have to accept responsibility for the damage done by their government's conduct.

[MariaThinks]

9. when is saudi arabia, pakistan, iran, and others going to take responsibility for terrorist acts

all over the world?

We can keep going back in history to 700 ad if you'd like to discuss the mass beheadings (a technique that isis has redeployed).

[ronnie624]

12. I don't know.

My responsibility is to my own government, and ALL of the current turmoil in that region of the world derives directly from US interventions, like the invasion of Iraq and Operation Cyclone. It won't do any good to "hold" those others responsible, as long as the shit storm comes from self-serving US interventionist policies.

I'm sorry, but your view is devoid of logic.

[7962]

16. Sorry, but no. We armed the Afghans to fight off the Soviets. That isnt an excuse for terrorism.

Then the same people we helped turned around and attacked US. Some say we "abandoned" them after russia left. Well, isnt that what the afghans are always saying they wanted? to be left alone?
I guess it would be better if we'd just let Russia stay in Afghanistan? The ME would have been peaceful if that would have been the outcome? how? If they had stayed, do you really think they would have stopped with Afghanistan?

[ronnie624]

20. The Reagan Admin. facilitated their extremism through self-serving intervention,

for purely geopolitical reasons, using the Afghan people as pawns to damage the USSR. We spent billions, and in the process, did tremendous damage to Afghan society. We were partners with extremists in a number countries, including Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. According to Zbigniew Brrzezinski, the Soviet invasion was preceded six months by Operation Cyclone, and the intervention included terrorist attacks, assasinations and the indoctrination of boys, with extremist ideology. What is happening now is, in large part, the result of all of that.

Do you honestly believe we can violently, self-servingly intervene in other countries, without creating a breeding-ground for political extremism?

[7962]

24. And you didnt answer the question.

[MariaThinks]

34. i'll be surpised if you get a real answer to your quesiton

while I abhor the Reagan government - they created so much destruction - in afganistan, we were used to help get rid of the soviets and then attacked on 911 as our reward for helping the muslims fight off the soviets.

We should not have gotten involved and let the soviets do whatever they wanted to in afganistan.

[MariaThinks]

10. 61 people butchered by isis and your thought is that america should apologize?

[ronnie624]

13. "ISIS" would not exist, absent US intervention. n/t

[MariaThinks]

35. isis would not exist without radical islam philosophy.

[forest444]

21. Not America, no - Shrub and Cheney.

[ronnie624]

22. Supported by numerous Democratic political leaders,

paid for with public resources and revenue.

We are not relieved of national resposibility, that easily.

[forest444]

27. You're right.

The invasion did have 70% approval among the public as well.

I lived in beautiful Laguna Beach, CA, at the time, and remember the peace rallies at Main Beach every Thursday in the early months of '03 (though I never attended one, I'm sorry to say).

I also remember the guffaws and disdain at the sight from many an Orange Cunty Republican at the time; "what are you gonna do? It's Laguna," they'd often say in a scornful tone.

How time changes things.

[JI7]

25. Some people think the United States is the center of the universe

The funny thing is these types usually think they are better and tolerant and cultured .

These countries have history long beforr the CIA and even the United StaTes. And they are totally ignorant of them.

More recently seen with some comments after the issues in Turkey and how it just had to be the US Behind it because of our history. Yet no mention about Turkey's history .

[Stuart G]

2. Horrible, Very Sad...

[muriel_volestrangler]

5. Isis claims responsibility for Kabul blasts that killed scores of Hazara protesters

At least 61 people have been killed and scores more injured after two suicide bombers struck a peaceful protest in Kabul by a Shia minority group.

Responsibility for the attack, which appears to have targeted a demonstration by the Hazara minority, was claimed by Islamic State via the group’s news agency, Amaq. If true, it would mark the first attack by Isis in Kabul, and its largest ever in Afghanistan.

According to a spokesman for the Afghan ministry of public health, more than 200 people were wounded, though this figure could rise.

The attacks have raised fears of an intensification in sectarian conflict. Since Afghanistan’s civil war in the 1990s the country has largely been spared the sectarian violence that plagues neighbouring Pakistan, as well as Iraq and Syria, where Isis has deliberately tried to stoke ethnic tensions.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/23/hazara-minority-targeted-by-suicide-bombs-at-kabul-protest

[daleo]

7. "Since Afghanistan’s civil war in the 1990s the country has largely been spared sectarian violence"

It hardly seemed that way to me. Wasn't the U.S. invasion supported by something called the Northern Alliance, against the largely Pushtun supported Taliban? And, hasn't that been a constant feature of the violence there, since that time (and before)?

[muriel_volestrangler]

8. 'sectarian' meaning different religious sects

As far as I know, the Northern Alliance didn't have a particular affliation to a sect.

[daleo]

29. According to Wiki, about 80 to 90% Sunni

10 to 19% Shiite, and a smattering of "other". Hazara are Shiite, and they are a significant sized group, with a history of conflict with Pashtuns.

It seems like that implies scope for plenty of sectarian strife. Given the state of Sunni-Shiite relations in neighbouring countries, it would be surprising to have little sectarian strife in Afghanistan, all things considered.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Afghanistan#Religions

[muriel_volestrangler]

30. You seemed to think there had already been sectarian violence

not just that there is the potential for it.

[daleo]

31. Yeah, I think there has been

Believe The Guardian, if you like.

[muriel_volestrangler]

32. Feel free to link to the reports of sectarian violence

to show The Guardian wrong.

[daleo]

36. Here are some links

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Global-News/2011/1207/Attacks-on-Shiites-in-Afghanistan-Why-this-is-different-than-Iraq

This article (from 2011) argues that attacks on Shiites by Sunnis are not motivated by religious differences, rather by ethnic differences. Maybe true, maybe not. The two factors are so heavily intercorrelated, that you can't really separate them.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/23/AR2010122305262.html

Here's the Washington Post in 21010, on the Pushtun-Hazari divide, which just happens to be a Sunn-iShiite divide. But to say a conflict with deep and continuing religious differences is "only" ethnic is incorrect, and wishful thinking, in my view.

In my opinion, ethnic rivalries are fundamentally struggles over resources and social status. Religion is a sort of cultural accellerant that keeps the other two factors warm, during periods of relative tranquillity. When conflict flares up, these religious differences come back to life, literally with a vengeance. That's why ethnic strife with a religious dimension can be so extraordinarily violent and why religion is such a potent force in human conflict.

[uppityperson]

19. Absolutely terrifying, horrifying. +1, I agree.

[raffaction]

18. For the Victims of the Afghan and Iraq Wars...

http://www.iraqinquiry.org.uk/media/246416/the-report-of-the-iraq-inquiry_executive-summary.pdf

This is a story about liars and criminals who are protected by an elite propaganda machine, a highly educated yet moronic atheist class, a heavily armed and corrupt justice and military system, and their incompetent and naive institutional lapdogs.

This is a story about the man who exposed them for what they really are. It is a story about their attempts to silence him using every method available. But they failed...

WHO ARE THE REAL CRIMINALS? YOU DECIDE...

Please visit:

https://storify.com/deltoidmachine/how-we-won-the-james-randi-dollar-1-000-000-parano

Please sign petition that justice may be served so that millions did not die and suffer in vain:


https://www.change.org/p/us-government-bush-and-blair-need-to-be-convicted-of-war-crimes-against-afghanistan-and-Iraq


FOR THE VICTIMS OF THE AFGHAN AND IRAQ WARS...


“Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.” - Gandhi

[LeftishBrit]

23. Oh fuck, not again - this is all so horrible.

[6chars]

26. bummer, man

[Rustyeye77]

38. Senseless

Just wrong